Sunday, August 25, 2019

Electric Dump Truck Produces More Energy Than It Uses

Electric vehicles are everywhere now. It's more than just Leafs, Teslas, and a wide variety of electric bikes. It's also trains, busses, and in this case, gigantic dump trucks. This truck in particular is being put to work at a mine in Switzerland, and as a consequence of having an electric drivetrain is actually able to produce more power than it consumes.

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Comments

imo, the hack-a-day site is more (a lot more) of a hobbyist/maker site than anything resembling a news site.

Read this with that in mind.

Nonetheless, the concept presented is an interesting one....

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-22 11:13 PM

That concept works if your loaded trucks are always going downhill. This is not always the case.

And, as always, the weight of batteries cuts into your payload capacity.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-22 11:20 PM

#2 | POSTED BY REDIAL

Um, yeah. EV's have come a long way in a short period of time. Great. But in this market? Good luck trying to compete with diesel.

#3 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-22 11:25 PM

Good luck trying to compete with diesel.

Latest thing is to use diesel with LNG injection... cheaper with lower emissions. We tried it the cheap way but it didn't work well enough to bother.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-22 11:36 PM

@#2 ... That concept works if your loaded trucks are always going downhill. This is not always the case. ...

Yeah, I see this as more of a targeted application, not a general use type of thing.

Having said that, I still like the concept. :)


#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-23 12:02 AM

This does highlight one cool aspect of electric vehicles...

When the car starts up and accelerates to speed, the car is taking the energy in the battery and converting it to the forward momentum of the vehicle.

When the driver presses the brake pedal, the initial part of slowing the vehicle is not done by brake pads converting that forward momentum to heat. The initial slowing of the vehicle is done by converting that forward momentum back into electricity to store in the vehicle's battery.

It is akin to your gas=powered car creating gasoline in the gas tank of the car when you step on the brakes.

That is cool.


#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-23 12:25 AM

Ingenious!

#7 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-23 12:27 AM

The initial slowing of the vehicle is done by converting that forward momentum back into electricity to store in the vehicle's battery.

My car does that. It is pretty neat.

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-23 07:35 AM

Regenerative braking, what everybody is talking about here, debuted in 1886.

#9 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-23 09:13 AM

...debuted in 1886.

Could you buy one off the lot?

#10 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-23 08:15 PM

clever, but very specializeed.

#11 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-23 08:18 PM

Could you buy one off the lot?

#10 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2019-08-23 08:15 PM | REPLY

Not far from it. By 1906 it was readily available for use in mass transit tram fleets.

#12 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-24 07:35 PM

Those mining trucks are diesel electric, they are big enough that the space required is not an issue. They run on a 750 hp Cummings generally with a very large gen powering four heavy traction motors mounted in the hubs of each wheel. Yep, you can shut the diesel off and coast down hill, which is possible but the engine runs the hydraulics to steer, and the air to release the brakes so that isn't really an option. Going down hill into the mine is not much to be impressed by, bringing 100 tons of material up is. They consume a gallon of #2 a minute while doing so. Many of those big boys are built down in Fort Worth at Trinity. They nave to be disassembled to be delivered on four 40' flat beds when they get on the road.

#13 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-08-24 08:17 PM

...powering four heavy traction motors mounted in the hubs of each wheel.

Usually just two wheel motors in the rear wheels.

#14 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-24 08:21 PM

#14 | Posted by REDIAL Depends on make and model, the deep pit mining trucks need the traction, open pit coal mine trucks don't.

#15 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-08-25 12:59 PM

Could be. We don't run any of the small trucks.

#16 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-25 01:01 PM

30'X60'X20' with 70 cubit yards and 100 tons of capacity isn't a "small truck" anywhere.

#17 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-08-25 01:43 PM

"30'X60'X20' with 70 cubit yards and 100 tons of capacity isn't a "small truck" anywhere.

#17 | POSTED BY DOCNJO "

The cube root of 70 yds is 4.1 or over 12 feet on each side. Its capacity doesn't look near that big.

#18 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-25 01:54 PM

Well, the smallest truck we have is a 240 tonne Komatsu 830e.

#19 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-25 02:02 PM

Most of the big mining equipment I have seen or dwelt with is limited in size by what can get into and out of a open pit mine. Now the biggest dozers I have seen are the D10 and I can't image the need for a bigger one. Might be, but they would be impossible to move without major disassembly. It's like some equipment that gets abandoned, like that big shovel in MI.

#20 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-08-25 04:32 PM

All our dozers are D-11s. 10s can't keep up.

#21 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-25 04:35 PM

#20 -- I saw such equipment at the Kennecott copper mine in Utah. The entire operation, equipment and mine were mind boggling.

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-25 04:37 PM

Radials truck is bigger than docnjo's.

#23 | Posted by bored at 2019-08-25 05:15 PM

Apparently Texas trucks can't satisfy Canadian hole needs. Once they went --- they wont go back.

#24 | Posted by bored at 2019-08-25 05:18 PM

The article's author needs to go read some stuff by Newton.

#25 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-08-25 05:21 PM

Once they went --- they wont go back.

Hey now, our dozers come from Illinois and our fancy new shovel is shipping from Milwaukee.

#26 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-25 05:23 PM

Must be a big hole.
Frequent trains will do that.

#27 | Posted by bored at 2019-08-25 05:26 PM

Ready Or Not, Here Come Electric Pickup Trucks

Rivian R1T. With sleekly futuristic styling that will likely appeal more to the Tesla crowd than Ford F-150 owners, startup automaker Rivian is expected to debut the R1T pickup for the 2020 model year. To be built at a former Mitsubishi plant in Normal, Ill, it will pack a quad-motor all-wheel-drive system to facilitate both high-speed maneuvering and low-speed rock crawling. The company says the R1T will be able to reach 60 mph in just three seconds and tow a maximum 11,000 pounds. Three battery sizes are planned, with the top unit claimed to be good for a range of 400 or more miles. The automaker is even promising hands-off autonomous driving on the highway. It will reportedly start at around $69,000.

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www.forbes.com

Gaw'ly! Maybe Ah'll finally get me a pick'em up truck. And put one a these molded fiberglass campers on it:

www.youtube.com

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2019-08-25 06:12 PM

Lets not get into a bigger is better. The big limitation on equipment is it's use and if the thing is ever going to be used elsewhere. As it is a D10 requires two 40" heavy lift trailers, one for the blade and ROPs and the other for the truck, even then it isn't easy to move. Some roads and bridges won't take the weight. If you have an open pit coal mine that is expected to produce for more than a decade, a dozer that weighs more than a locomotive might be a worth while investment. If not they will not buy it. As I remember a D11 clocks in at over 100 metric tons and is about 15' wide across the tracks. Moving big equipment gets to be problematic.

#29 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-08-25 06:12 PM

If you have an open pit coal mine that is expected to produce for more than a decade, a dozer that weighs more than a locomotive might be a worth while investment.

Exactly. We have about 20 of them. And we lease them.

#30 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-25 06:24 PM

The company says the R1T will be able to reach 60 mph in just three seconds and tow a maximum 11,000 pounds. Three battery sizes are planned, with the top unit claimed to be good for a range of 400 or more miles. The automaker is even promising hands-off autonomous driving on the highway. It will reportedly start at around $69,000.
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#28 | POSTED BY CORKY

Still isn't going to work when my favorite remote fishing hole is 700 miles round trip, pulling a 30 ft camper.

#31 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-08-25 06:59 PM

#31

That's where your portable boondocking eel tank comes in handy!

There ought to be an electric outlet somewhere between home and there.

#32 | Posted by Corky at 2019-08-25 08:19 PM

There are uses for electric vehicles, and there are uses for which they don't work.

Pretty simple concept.

You can't pull a 9000 lb trailer anywhere with a Tesla.

You also don't need a 3500 Ram diesel pickup to drive a block to pick up the mail.

#33 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-25 08:32 PM

There are uses for electric vehicles, and there are uses for which they don't work.
Pretty simple concept.

#33 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2019-08-25 08:32 PM | REPLY

There is no use case where electric and fossil fuel do not both work. A tesla is not made for pulling a 9000 lb trailer but there is nothing stopping anyone from creating an electric large pickup truck that could easily. In fact electric has some advantages with heavy loads.

On Thursday the Tesla semi will be unveiled

Electric motors are actually ideal for big rigs, because they produce gobs of torque instantly, meaning a trucker would find an electric 18-wheeler zippy and smooth"no mashing through 10 or more gears to get up to speed like in a conventional truck.

Toyota is currently running Project Portal, a shiny, hydrogen-powered, 18-wheeler, around the Port of Los Angeles.

#34 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-26 12:58 PM

If you can't shift you can get an automated manual or automatic. Truckers prefer the manual, 80% of sales. You'd need huge banks of 1 megawatt chargers to even try and keep an OTR fleet moving.

Electric motors are great for switchers and tugs in warehouse yards. Terrible for OTR logistics.

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-26 03:22 PM

If only somebody could figure out how to keep an electric motor running by just cutting out the middle man and hooking it up to generator with a small battery for starting and bursts...

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-26 03:24 PM

There ought to be an electric outlet somewhere between home and there.

#32 | POSTED BY CORKY

Riiiight... Why wouldn't I just want to spend 12 hrs recharging, every 250 miles?

#37 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-08-26 05:43 PM

12 hours?

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-26 06:00 PM

Every train pulling 150 carloads of coal has been running on electric motors and generating power through dynamic braking since the 40s.

The modern diesel locomotive is a self contained version of the electric locomotive. Like the electric locomotive, it has electric drive, in the form of traction motors driving the axles and controlled with electronic controls. It also has many of the same auxiliary systems for cooling, lighting, heating, braking and hotel power (if required) for the train. It can operate over the same routes (usually) and can be operated by the same drivers. It differs principally in that it carries its own generating station around with it, instead of being connected to a remote generating station through overhead wires or a third rail. The generating station consists of a large diesel engine coupled to an alternator producing the necessary electricity. A fuel tank is also essential. It is interesting to note that the modern diesel locomotive produces about 35% of the power of a electric locomotive of similar weight.

#39 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-26 07:51 PM

The largest diesel electric lovomotive is the dual-engine 6,600-horsepower (4,900 kW) EMD DDA40X. The chinese mass produced an all electric locomotive that generates 19,000 horsepower called the HXD1 from 2006-2012 for freight hauling and over 250 are currently in service.

#40 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-26 08:08 PM

Every train pulling 150 carloads of coal has been running on electric motors and generating power through dynamic braking since the 40s.

#39 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2019-08-26 07:51 PM | FLAG:

Clearly didn't get the sarcasm. Trains take their power source along with them. OTR trucking with batteries and a charger network is a logistics nightmare. Volvo's hybrid semi gets 30% fuel savings.

#41 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-27 08:45 AM

Riiiight... Why wouldn't I just want to spend 12 hrs recharging, every 250 miles?

#37 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT AT 2019-08-26 05:43 PM |

They have actually improved batteries and charging since 1990 you know. The Tesla only takes 75 minutes for a full charge. 20 minutes for 50%

#42 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-27 12:32 PM

OTR trucking with batteries and a charger network is a logistics nightmare.

No more so than OTR trucking with fuel tanks and a gas station network. I can build a charging station for 5% of the cost of building a gas station and it can be completely autonomous. All of the Hy Vees in our area have Tesla charging stations now. It cost them 4 spaces in their lot. A single port charging station costs just $2300 plus installation. For a one time up front cost of about $15,000 you can build a 4 port charging station in any parking lot

#43 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-27 12:41 PM

I can build a charging station for 5% of the cost of building a gas station and it can be completely autonomous.

#43 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2019-08-27 12:41 PM | REPLY

Not that supports OTR trucking. Industrial standards don't exist for mW chargers for a big rig size battery to charge at 1C. To minimize depreciation cost on fleet batteries you have to charge at 1C which takes an hour. Rapid charging damages lipos.

To replace a truck stop, especially at their current turnaround times for fillups, you'd need banks of 3 to 5 mW chargers, and a multi-million dollar infrastructure upgrade all the way back to at least the substation.

#44 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-27 01:13 PM

#38
#42

12 hours was a guess. But, a pickup capable of pulling my camper 250 miles is going to need some pretty serious battery capacity. It's very unlikely there are any fast chargers along that route. So a 120 volt 20 amp outlet is going to be the plugin. Unless I bring a pretty good generator, I'm pretty sure that it's not getting charged in 75 minutes where I go camping.

#45 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-08-27 10:20 PM

EV tech is nowhere close to what "pickup trucks" were designed to do.

EV tech is close to doing what people who use pickup trucks to go 3 blocks to get the mail need.

EV tech will never be able to propel enough armor that marketers have convinced soccer moms they need to get the kids to the field alive.

#46 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-27 11:05 PM

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