Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, August 13, 2019

Roughly 150 locals attended an August 12 job fair to apply for jobs at the Koch Foods' plants in Mississippi. The fair was run after the August 7 removal of 243 alleged illegal migrants in two of the company's chicken processing plants, according to local authorities.

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Federal data from 2018 shows that half of the meat cutters in the state were being paid less than $12.23 per hour.

But wages have spiked upwards for Americans when employers were forced to give up their illegal workforces. Enforcement actions aided African-American bakers in Chicago and Somali refugees in Iowa and throughout the Midwest after the 2006 enforcement at the Swift & Co. meatpacking company.

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This used to be the Democrat argument for strong borders. I remember when the talking point was Republicans enjoyed weak borders so businesses could hire cheap labor and stiff the working class.

Anything to oppose Trump though, no matter how hypocritical. This kind of thing is why I keep saying the left left me.

#1 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2019-08-13 12:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

... when employers were forced to give up their illegal workforces ...

So good old American Capitalism is why illegal immigrants are hired by employers. The employers want to pay lower wages to reduce their costs and increase their profits.

It is not that illegal immigrants are taking jobs from Americans.

It is that American employers are giving the jobs preferentially to illegal immigrants to reduce costs.

I've been saying all along that the employers need to stop hiring illegal immigrants.

From the cited article:

...Roughly 150 locals attended an August 12 job fair to apply for jobs at the Koch Foods' plants in Mississippi....

The area's unemployment is high, and the wages are low....

Federal data from 2018 shows that half of the meat cutters in the state were being paid less than $12.23 per hour.

But wages have spiked upwards for Americans when employers were forced to give up their illegal workforces.


This is good, the employers are finally starting to do the right thing.


#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 01:02 PM | Reply

The next step is to start rounding up and putting into jail those employers who have hired illegal immigrants instead of Americans.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 01:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"But wages have spiked upwards for Americans when employers were forced to give up their illegal workforces."

Well, would you look at that: go after employers hiring illegally, and wages rise. Quelle surprise!

#4 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-13 01:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-- This kind of thing is why I keep saying the left left me.

You and me both. From anti-neocon to Hillary. From anti-corporate globalist to open borders for capital and labor. From pro-working class to the Party of Martha's Vineyard.

#5 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-13 01:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

This is good, the employers are finally starting to do the right thing.

#2 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2019-08-13 01:02 PM | FLAG:

Baloney. They were stripped of their undocumented cheapass labor. This isn't the case of a company all of a sudden growing a conscious.

The feds should have been targeting the employers all along.

And by the way, the nation wide sweep that got these undocumented workers off the job totalled 680 people. LOL

They could probably get that many at Maralago.

#6 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-08-13 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It is that American employers are giving the jobs preferentially to illegal immigrants to reduce costs.
I've been saying all along that the employers need to stop hiring illegal immigrants.
This is good, the employers are finally starting to do the right thing. - #2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 01:02 PM

Nope. You've still got it backwards. The employer's stance on this has not changed one iota. No employer is going to offer more to fill a job than the minimum required to fill the job. The fact that unlawful immigrants with forged documentation are willing to take those jobs at low wages means that everyone's wages are artificially depressed. Once those willing to take those low wages are removed from the equation, then those jobs aren't filled because the wages are too low to bring in citizens. So either the wages will go up, automation will replace the worker, or the business will fold/lower production.

#7 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-13 02:04 PM | Reply

"Nope. You've still got it backwards"
"Nope. You've still got it backwards"

when I was in Mexico I saw full page adds, in Spanish, advertising jobs in Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas. no mention of citizenship or documentation listed as required

you're a ------- liar. And you are stupid

#8 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-08-13 02:14 PM | Reply

"The fact that unlawful immigrants with forged documentation are willing to take those jobs at low wages means..."

Means the employer was probably very aware of what was going on. Luckily, they arrested the hirers along with the 680 undocumented workers.

Just kidding about that last part.

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-13 02:14 PM | Reply

@#7 ... Nope. You've still got it backwards. The employer's stance on this has not changed one iota. No employer is going to offer more to fill a job than the minimum required to fill the job. ...

That's been my view all along, that the employer hires illegal immigrants instead of US Citizens or legal immigrant because it is a lower cost, hence higher profit.

... The fact that unlawful immigrants with forged documentation are willing to take those jobs at low wages ...

It is not that the illegal immigrants are taking the jobs.

It is that the employers are giving those jobs to illegal immigrants in order to, at the risk of saying it again, reduce costs and increase profits.

Unsurprisingly, many employers know exactly who they are hiring.

Documents: Plant Owners 'Willfully' Used Ineligible Workers
www.nbcconnecticut.com

...Six of seven Mississippi chicken processing plants raided Wednesday were "willfully and unlawfully" employing people who lacked authorization to work in the United States, including workers wearing electronic monitoring bracelets at work for previous immigration violations, according to unsealed court documents....

So the court documents filed by ICE in the recent Mississippi raids show that six of the seven employers knew they were giving the jobs to illegal immigrants instead of US Citizens or legal immigrants. Six out of seven.

Yet were any of those employers given a free ride to the lock-up?

... Once those willing to take those low wages are removed from the equation ...

I agree that once the employers no longer have the low wage pool (the illegal immigrants that they know are illegal), that they will start to hire US Citizens and/or legal immigrants.


#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 02:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

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you're a ------- liar. And you are stupid
#8 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-08-13 02:14 PM

What lie are you falsely claiming I have made?

#11 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-13 02:23 PM | Reply

The raids were allowed to / set up to occur because the illegal immigrants started making demands to be treated as human beings.

the plants raided included those owned by Koch Foods, which in August 2018 paid $3.75 million to settle a lawsuit alleging racial and sexual harassment against Latina workers at these plants. The suit alleged that "supervisors touched and/or made sexually suggestive comments to Hispanic female employees, hit Hispanic employees and charged many of them money for normal everyday work activities." As part of the settlement, Koch Foods"no relation to the Republican mega-donors"agreed to create a 24-hour bilingual hotline for worker complaints. While there is currently no evidence that the raid was connected, the history of exploitation here has made the raids feel especially cruel. And activists worry the example of Canton will also have devastating effects for communities elsewhere"all, contrary to right-wing talking points, without having any meaningful effect on migration.

"I don't know if they came after them because of the litigation or not, but ultimately the effect is the same," said Caitlin Berberich, an attorney at Southern Migrant Legal Services (SMLS), in Tennessee,

newrepublic.com


The raids happened as a sign to other illegal employees. Either they shut up and work, or they're all welcome to go home.

#12 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 02:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#12 ... The raids happened as a sign to other illegal employees. Either they shut up and work, or they're all welcome to go home. ...

If that is a correct assessment, that also further reduces the need to pay the illegal immigrants higher wages, further increasing the incentive for employers to give the jobs to illegal immigrants instead of US Citizens and/or legal immigrants.

Less cost, more profit.

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So the court documents filed by ICE in the recent Mississippi raids show that six of the seven employers knew they were giving the jobs to illegal immigrants instead of US Citizens or legal immigrants. Six out of seven.
Yet were any of those employers given a free ride to the lock-up? - #10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 02:21 PM

I'm afraid I'm still in the 'innocent until proven guilty' crowd. If the government can prove that position in a court of law, I'll be all for the 'punish them in accordance with the law' crowd. As of now, there haven't even been any charges levied. I'm not sure what ride would be needed if no charges have been filed. Do you think that the government is waiting to file charges? Or perhaps they don't feel that there is sufficient evidence of criminality to overcome reasonable doubt?

#14 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-13 02:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

What lie are you falsely claiming I have made?
#11 | POSTED BY ABIGBORE

On this thread?

You made the claim the employers were unaware they were hiring illegal immigrants and it's the employee's fault the employers are paying low wages.

According to you, the employers have zero responsibility for anything. They're victims.

That's the lie.

Your excuses are the reason the employers went unpunished for hiring illegal immigrants.

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 02:37 PM | Reply

that also further reduces the need to pay the illegal immigrants higher wages, further increasing the incentive for employers to give the jobs to illegal immigrants instead of US Citizens and/or legal immigrants.

Not only that. But. Because they're illegal immigrants, they have no, very limited, protection under our laws, especially in a state like Mississippi.

So, abuses go unreported. If they are reported, the result is immediate firing, or deportation.

#16 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 02:42 PM | Reply

@#14 ... I'm afraid I'm still in the 'innocent until proven guilty' crowd ...

As am I.

When I said, "a free ride to the lock-up" I was thinking of being charged, not necessarily put into jail.

Though many people are put into jail before their court trial of ultimate innocence or guilt.

... As of now, there haven't even been any charges levied. I'm not sure what ride would be needed if no charges have been filed. ...

ICE knew of the employers willfully and illegally employing those immigrants instead of US Citizens.

ICE knew that before the raids. They've been gathering info for a year or more.

So why weren't there any charges against the employers?

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So why weren't there any charges against the employers?

If I had to wager a guess. I'd say it's because the employers cooperated with ICE.

I'd even wager the employer provided ICE with the list of names of who the illegal immigrant employees were.

You don't have to pay a settlement to employees who were convicted of being in the country illegally and therefore deported.

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 03:41 PM | Reply

The old "JAIL THE EMPLOYERS!" bit. Going after that less than 1% of illegal employment.

You'll get a few, maybe. Being given a fake social is not the employer's fault, which is what happens in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases.

#19 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-13 03:46 PM | Reply

@#19 ... Being given a fake social is not the employer's fault, ...

But "willfully and unlawfully" (ICE's words, not mine) employing illegal immigrants is the employers' faults.

"Willfully and unlawfully" is the phrase ICE use to describe six of the seven employers in the recent Mississippi raids.

Those employers willfully and unlawfully gave jobs to illegal immigrants, instead of hiring US Citizens.

Willfully and unlawfully.

Six out of seven employers.

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 03:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Being given a fake social is not the employer's fault,

Yes. It is. As it should be easy to double check the documents you're being provided with.

The employers aren't the victims. They're the ones making profits from the labor of these underpaid employees.

#21 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 04:03 PM | Reply

"The old "JAIL THE EMPLOYERS!" bit. Going after that less than 1% of illegal employment."

How on earth can folks who hire 100% of the illegals only be responsible for 1% of the illegal employment?

Vernon? Is that you???

#22 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-13 04:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The old "JAIL THE EMPLOYERS!" bit. Going after that less than 1% of illegal employment.

You'll get a few, maybe. Being given a fake social is not the employer's fault, which is what happens in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases.

#19 | Posted by sitzkrieg

"Jail The employers" is more effective. Those who hire illegal immigrants know about it but turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants. The eVerify system coupled with state issued ID would immediately catch people trying to use fake SS #'s. It isn't rocket science. Employers have to be forced to use the systems that are in place.

Every time I produce for major labels or film studios, I am required to have the people I hire fill out I-9 forms along with a copy of their passports or birth certificate/state issued ID to prove they're legally allowed to work in the U.S.

BTW, Obama began focusing on employers in 2010. Illegal immigration fell to its lowest levels in decades.

The US Undocumented Population Fell Sharply During the Obama Era: Estimates for 2016

Robert Warren
Center for Migration Studies

This report shows estimates of the undocumented population residing in the United States in 2016, by country of origin and state of residence. Previous CMS reports have documented the long-term change from rapid population growth in the 1990s, to single-digit rates of growth in 2000 to 2010. This report shows continued declines in the population from most countries and in most states since 2010. Major findings include the following:

- The undocumented population was 10.8 million in 2016, the lowest level since 2003.
- The number of US undocumented residents from Mexico fell by almost one million between 2010 and 2016.

- Population decline from Mexico in 2015 and 2016 was consistent with previous years.
- Average annual undocumented population growth dropped from 15 percent in the 1990s to about 4 percent in 2000 to 2010. Since 2010, the numbers from most countries have declined.

cmsny.org

#23 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Being given a fake social is not the employer's fault, which is what happens in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases."

You're like the bar owner who knowingly serves minors with fake IDs.

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-13 04:06 PM | Reply

" it should be easy to double check the documents you're being provided with."

And why don't SS number verifications come with age, height, and weight? That way, you wouldn't get a burly guy applying with the SS# of an 88yr old granny.

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-13 04:08 PM | Reply

#25

You want to fill up, Mrs. Nussbaum?

#26 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-08-13 04:19 PM | Reply

You're like the bar owner who knowingly serves minors with fake IDs.

#24 | Posted by Danforth

While advertising that he runs that kind of establishment.

#27 | Posted by jpw at 2019-08-13 04:57 PM | Reply

Look, I have talked and posted about this many times. The first really big example of illegals depressing wages I know of happened in the 80s - where janitorial jobs in the LA area went from at that time a living wage of $25/hour and mainly African Americans down to $10/hour and Hispanic.

As for employers being ignorant of what they are doing - don't play the village idiot. You can't have a significant part of your labor force be undocumented and NOT know. Faked Social Security documents when the employee can't spell their name on other paperwork, a Hispanic who can not speak English and has a last name of O'Leary on documents, etc. You can't make some of these things up and they really happen.

H1B visas are another PRIME example of employers gaming the system. There are actual SEMINARS held around the country for how to game the system and get low wage H1B workers vs hiring Americans. They do things like teach you how to advertise jobs in obscure locations and create job descriptions that are impossible to meet the criteria for (Like 10 years experience with something that has only been around 5 or 6 years...). This mostly for tech jobs but definitely lowers the wages for workers in all areas affected by H1Bs. They will have these impossible requirements and then hire someone from India or China who literally has none of them and is fresh from college.

#28 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-08-13 05:05 PM | Reply

I remember when the talking point was Republicans enjoyed weak borders so businesses could hire cheap labor and stiff the working class.

When was that exactly? Reagan gave Amnesty, Democrats faltered on funding border security this is well documented, since then the race across the desert has been unabated.

And why don't SS number verifications come with age, height, and weight? That way, you wouldn't get a burly guy applying with the SS# of an 88yr old granny.
#25 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

You mean a NATIONAL ID CARD? For VOTING TOO? Sounds like a great idea....

The first really big example of illegals depressing wages I know of happened in the 80s - where janitorial jobs in the LA area went from at that time a living wage of $25/hour and mainly African Americans down to $10/hour and Hispanic.
~GalaxiPete

They know this ... Imakolee is a well known immigration racial displacement situation.

BTW, Obama began focusing on employers in 2010. Illegal immigration fell to its lowest levels in decades.

His focus didn't do anything to the employers, his 7/11 raids were failures..

Companies should not be in charge of defending our borders. Its absolutely absurd.

How on earth can folks who hire 100% of the illegals only be responsible for 1% of the illegal employment?

Because there are almost 10 Million FederalWorkAuthorizations authorized today.

#29 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-08-13 07:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"You mean a NATIONAL ID CARD?"

No.

Reading comprehension problem?

#30 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-13 08:05 PM | Reply

BTW, Obama began focusing on employers in 2010. Illegal immigration fell to its lowest levels in decades.

His focus didn't do anything to the employers, his 7/11 raids were failures..

Companies should not be in charge of defending our borders. Its absolutely absurd.

MACKRIS

The proof that focusing on employers who hire illegal immigrants works is that the number of illegal immigrants went DOWN to its lowest level since the 90's when they did.

The fact that Trump hasn't ordered ICE and Homeland Security to refocus their efforts on employers is evidence he just wants to keep it as a campaign issue to rile up his base.

How many in management at the 7 companies were arrested in last week's raids? What? Zero?

#31 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 08:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

AU,

You're wasting your time trying to communicate with the Soiled Mattress.

It has its bogus talking points and that's all that the Mattress cares about, spreading false information.

Part of the Republican disinformation campaign.

They can't win with the truth. So it's gotta be all lies.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 08:15 PM | Reply

The US Undocumented Population Fell Sharply During the Obama Era: Estimates for 2016

Robert Warren
Center for Migration Studies

This report shows estimates of the undocumented population residing in the United States in 2016, by country of origin and state of residence. Previous CMS reports have documented the long-term change from rapid population growth in the 1990s, to single-digit rates of growth in 2000 to 2010. This report shows continued declines in the population from most countries and in most states since 2010. Major findings include the following:

- The undocumented population was 10.8 million in 2016, the lowest level since 2003.
- The number of US undocumented residents from Mexico fell by almost one million between 2010 and 2016.

- Population decline from Mexico in 2015 and 2016 was consistent with previous years.
- Average annual undocumented population growth dropped from 15 percent in the 1990s to about 4 percent in 2000 to 2010. Since 2010, the numbers from most countries have declined.

cmsny.org

#33 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 08:18 PM | Reply

" So it's gotta be all lies.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack "

Like your gal speaksoftly has been puking out the last half hour? Or are her lies honorable for whatever unknown reason?

#34 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 08:19 PM | Reply

They can't win with the truth. So it's gotta be all lies.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack

Users here can lie but numbers don't.

#35 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 08:20 PM | Reply

Like your gal speaksoftly has been puking out the last half hour? Or are her lies honorable for whatever unknown reason?
#34 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Gal Tuesday is SpeakSoftly?

Regardless. I haven't been reading the back and forth between you two.

I'm sure Speaks is making good points, he usually does.

I'm sure you're punching holes in his statements, you're good at doing that.

Either way.

Not sure what the Soiled Mattress's lies have to do with anything you and Speak are discussing.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-13 08:28 PM | Reply

"I'm sure Speaks is making good points, he usually does. "

If you are impressed with lies and deflections, then yea. He (he? "he" claimed to be female a few years ago. Just another lie, I guess. I don't get it, but some people thrive on lying)

Soiled Mattress? OK, I'm not up on the cutesy speak names that have been assigned to everyone since I've been gone. But you mentioned something about lies. Speaksoftly has been heavily engaging in them. That's the connection. I thought my point on that was clear, but I guess not.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 08:42 PM | Reply

"Gal Tuesday is SpeakSoftly?"

I doubt it. Gal Tuesday has much more class and I have never caught her in a lie as I do Speaksoftly doing daily.

#38 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 08:46 PM | Reply

"- The undocumented population was 10.8 million in 2016, the lowest level since 2003.
#23 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

This is a blatant lie that even the Left knows is a lie which is why they are scared to death of the census questions. Yale/MIT puts the number 2x greater at 22M and even that is a low estimate.

#39 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-13 09:04 PM | Reply

IRA

The number has doubled since Trump took office! Thanks for point that out!!!

Pew Research; same figures when Obama left office (thanks to enforcement against employers):

There were 10.5 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2017, representing 3.2% of the total U.S. population that year. The 2017 unauthorized immigrant total is a 14% drop from the peak of 12.2 million in 2007, when this group was 4% of the U.S. population.

The U.S. civilian workforce includes 7.6 million unauthorized immigrants, representing a decline since 2007. Between 2007 and 2017, the number of unauthorized immigrant workers fell by 625,000, as did their share of the total U.S. workforce over the same period. In 2017, this group accounted for 4.6% of those in the U.S. who were working or were unemployed and looking for work.

www.pewresearch.org

#40 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 09:18 PM | Reply

"The number has doubled since Trump took office! Thanks for point that out!!!
#40 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

Not even you believe this - why post it? The number did go up though - by about 10%-15% since Trump came into power and fixed the economy....and the Dems showed they have appetite for enforcing the border. My guess is we have 25M unauthorized immigrants currently.

#41 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-13 09:27 PM | Reply

See, IRA? Your study is NEW (Sept 2018).

The studies I cited clearly showed illegal immigration went DOWN under Obama, thanks in part to his focusing enforcement on employers. Illegal immigrant numbers in the U.S. when Obama left was HALF the number it is now according to your cited Yale/MIT study.

Trump just wants something to rile up his base, like you. He isn't serious about it or he'd be ordering ICE and Homeland Security to focus their efforts on employers, which worked under Obama.

Ah, heck, who are we kidding? Trump employes illegals and prefers H-2B temporary workers over Americans anyway. He couldn't care less, except to use illegal immigration as a campaign issue or he'd be doing what worked in the past.

#42 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 09:28 PM | Reply

"See, IRA? Your study is NEW (Sept 2018).
#42 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

Not my study - Yale/MIT's study shows how your studies systematically undercount unauthorized immigrants. Your studies are not based on science/math - they are based on wishful thinking.

#43 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-13 09:32 PM | Reply

Not even you believe this - why post it?

Posted by iragoldberg

I posted facts. You posted your opinion.

Two comprehensive studies I posted above showed 10.5 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. when Obama left office. A number that went DOWN every year since 2010, when he shifted enforcement to employers. When he left office, we had a net LOSS of illegal immigrants in the U.S., not a gain.

Your study (for which you provided no link) says the number of illegal immigrants has DOUBLED to 22 million since Trump took office.

WTG!!

When will Trump stop hiring illegal immigrants and importing H-2B employees from other countries when there are Americans who apply for those jobs? And consistently RAISED the number of H-2B visas?

You don't really care about American workers. You only care about sticking up for Trump, who doesn't care about American workers either, since he prefers not hiring them at his own properties!

#44 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 09:38 PM | Reply

Instead of reforming the guestworker system (H-2B), Trump has allowed it to flourish. In its latest action, the Department of Homeland Security announced today that it is raising the 2019 H-2B cap by 30,000. The additional visas are available to H-2B guestworkers who previously worked in the United States within the past three years.

The H-2B visa allows employers to hire foreign workers for non-agricultural jobs that do not require higher education, including landscaping, cleaning, hotels, etc. I've explained before how the H-2B program is a raw deal for Americans, and I highlight those points below:

- Data show that employers pay H-2B workers much less than their American counterparts.
- The H-2B program distorts the labor market and artificially props up inefficient companies, giving them no incentive to reform their hiring practices.
- H-2B prevents the neediest Americans (ex-convicts, recovering addicts, the homeless, high school dropouts, etc.) from securing meaningful employment that could transform their lives.
- The H-2B visa is unnecessary because a domestic replacement could do the same thing.

cis.org

Articles all over the 'net tell the same story of Trump raising the number of H-2B visas, depriving Americans of the jobs.

And Trump has a record of hiring illegal immigrants at his properties.

"Do as I say, not as I do." That's Trump's MO!

#45 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 09:44 PM | Reply

Bottom line:

Illegal immigrant numbers went DOWN under Obama, UP under Trump.

WTG!!

#46 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 09:47 PM | Reply

"Your study (for which you provided no link) says the number of illegal immigrants has DOUBLED to 22 million since Trump took office.
#44 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

No, it doesn't -------. It says the numbers were always undercounted not that they doubled in two years - not even you are dumb enough to draw that conclusion. I didn't feel the need to link again as you can google it yourself or go to any of the posts that I made over the last 2 months where I repeatedly linked to it already. Don't act like you don't know the exact study that I am referring to. From your comment, it seems like you never read the link in the past or, read it and want to lie about it now.

#47 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-13 09:48 PM | Reply

"Illegal immigrant numbers went DOWN under Obama, UP under Trump.
#46 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY "

Under Obama, they still went up, but at a slower pace. Not because of Obama immigration policies - but because of his horrible economic recovery.

#48 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-13 09:50 PM | Reply

Under Obama, they still went up, but at a slower pace. Not because of Obama immigration policies - but because of his horrible economic recovery.

#48 | Posted by iragoldberg

IRA, all I can say is don't squeeze yourself. You're full of BS.

"Horrible economic recovery?" We went from 10+% unemployment to 4.5%, from losing 750,000 jobs a month when he took office to gains of hundreds of thousands a month when he left office. He did all of that with ZERO help from Republicans.

Trump hasn't matched any of Obama's yearly job gains yet.

Obama's eight years:

2009: Negative 422,000 per month
Lost 5.1 million jobs (height of the recession)

2010: 88,000 per month or 1.05 million for the year
2011: 174,000 per month or 2.09 million
2012: 179,000 per month or 2.14 million
2013: 192,000 per month or 2.3 million
2014: 250,000 per month or 3 million
2015: 226,000 per month or 2.7 million
2016: 187,000 per month or 2.24 million

Trump's 2 full years of employment figures::

2017: 182,000 per month or 2.19 million
2018 193,000 per month or 2.32 million

He hasn't matched Obama's best years yet.

Two Charts Show Trump's Job Gains Are Just A Continuation From Obama's Presidency

www.forbes.com

The US Undocumented Population Fell Sharply During the Obama Era: Estimates for 2016

cmsny.org

Ya, don't squeeze yourself. It won't smell good!

#49 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 10:25 PM | Reply

Click on that Forbes article, linked above, IRA.

Trump inherited a great economy thanks to Obama, who got no help from Republicans. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Trump didn't create this economy.

And illegal immigration has gone UP, not DOWN like it did under Obama.

Sorry for you. Numbers don't lie.

#50 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 10:27 PM | Reply

Trump hasn't matched any of Obama's highest yearly or monthly job gains yet.

You'll look like even more of a fool if you continue arguing, IRA. The numbers aren't on your side, IRA. Although you WISH they were, they aren't, IRA.

#51 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 10:32 PM | Reply

"Trump hasn't matched any of Obama's highest yearly or monthly job gains yet.

#51 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY "

Lowest unemployment in 50 years. Lowest black and Hispanic unemployment ever. Who cares the rate it happened. It happened. I know it's hard to get a liberal spin out of this one, but facts are facts. Your argument would be as if my job on the oil rig didn't count our generous bonuses. I made 6 figures a year counting bonuses. But someone making $90,000/year would (using your lame argument) would say, "But but, 11 months of the year, I made more than you".

Trump eclipsed Obama on job creation (highest ever two months ago) and has the lowest unemployment in 50 years. Deal with it.

#52 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 10:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trump's 2 full years of employment figures::"

Current unemployment: Lowest in 50 years. That's all that matters is what's happening NOW.

Deal with it.

#53 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 10:44 PM | Reply

Looks like Unitard borrowed Dan's Donkey Suit.

#54 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-08-13 10:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

AU, would you rather make $5,000/month for 12 months, or make $4,500/mo for 12 months and get a $10,000 bonus on the 12th month? With your logic, you'd prefer the former.

That's the problem with hyperpartisanship -- you don't consider the big picture and base all your arguments on a microcosm.

#55 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 10:51 PM | Reply

GOATMAN

IRA stated something that simply isn't true. I posted the facts.

If you don't like it, tough schitt, troll.

#56 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 11:00 PM | Reply

"If you don't like it, tough schitt, troll.

#56 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY "

It works both ways. I don't do double standards

#57 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-13 11:27 PM | Reply

"Trump hasn't matched any of Obama's highest yearly or monthly job gains yet.
#51 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

1.) Obama took over an economy that had already bottomed. So, it was inevitable to get some rebound - even an idiot like AOC could have accomplished that. The market always tends to over-inflate and then over-correct. Things were never as bleak as how the media was painting them. They did that get the bailout passed - always remember that.

2.) Your assumption is that all jobs are the same - which is why you fixate on the pure numbers of jobs. Obama was the part time, low paid job creator. He didn't really have a choice as he freely allowed manufacturing to leave the country - and wanted to make that even worse by not only not renegotiating existing bad trade deals - he wanted to push TPP through as well. Trump is the exact opposite. He is bringing back quality jobs (the jobs Obama said required magic to bring back). That is why we are seeing actual wage growth under Trump and saw wages decrease under Obama adjusting for inflation.

So yeah - Obama's economy was poor and it was going to get worse. If we would have had 4 more years of his economic policies, we would be like Germany or France now facing a full blown recession. Now, wages could be much, much higher if we got a handle on illegal immigration - the only question is if the Democrats care more about citizens of the US or imported future voters.

#58 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 01:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

IRA

You're parsing and engaging in hypothetical nonsense.

America had years of increasing employment during Obama's 8 years as president.

If Trump was so great, his annual job increases would be far more than Obama's. They aren't. All they're doing is continuing the trajectory the economy was on when Obama left office.

#59 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 02:39 AM | Reply

"#59 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

If Trump wanted to increase the number of part time jobs like Taco Bell employees and Walmart greeters, that is easy to do. That is what Obama did. That is why Obama showed increasing job numbers but wage growth not keeping up with inflation. If you take a breakdown of wages growth by percentile, the bottom 25% of wage earners in the US have flat wages going back 20 years with them actually losing purchasing power. There are 2 solutions to this problem:

1. The Dem solution - raise the minimum wage. This results in lower hours worked (hell, look at Bernie's campaign staffers, Seattle, or New York) and more importantly, keeps workers in low skill positions which will ultimately be automated or in constant competition from undocumented workers keeping the wages constantly at whatever is the legislated minimum wage. All this does is result in inflation for the services these low skill employees buy so there is not actual growth in purchasing power.

2. The Trump Solution - Bring back higher wage jobs and limit illegal immigration to simultaneously increase demand for workers and lower supply of workers - the market forces work and wages go up (as we have witnessed since he took office). So, we could take that Taco Bell employee and raise their wage from $7.50 to $12.00 per hour - OR - we could bring in a manufacturing related job that pays $12/hour and have the employee work there instead and forcing Taco Bell to hire their next worker at over $7.50/hour. That is how you grow wages. These forces are at work in every city we have today - no one is making the federal minimum wage in San Francisco.

In summary, growing unskilled/low wage jobs is pointless if your goal is growth in purchasing power. And yes, I support union membership and collective bargaining for these manufacturing jobs.

#60 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 04:43 AM | Reply

Trump is failing at #2

The plants that employed large numbers of people that he bragged he'd saved from moving have closed or moved.

You have some top secret information about new manufacturing jobs he's responsible for that pay a living wage? $12/hr isn't a living wage.

#61 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 05:01 AM | Reply

IRA

And how about Trump set an example of hiring Americans instead of importing low wage H-2B workers at his properties? Cease hiring illegals? Moving manufacturing of his Trump merchandise to the U.S.?

He shouldn't spout rhetoric about jobs for Americans when he isn't willing to lead by example, should he?

#62 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 05:04 AM | Reply

"You have some top secret information about new manufacturing jobs he's responsible for that pay a living wage? $12/hr isn't a living wage.
#61 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

Get your facts straight.

www.forbes.com

"In the last 30 months of President Obama's term, manufacturing employment grew by 185,000 or 1.5%. In President Trump's first 30 months, manufacturers added 499,000 jobs, expanding by 4.0%. In the same 30-month time span during the mature, post-recovery phase of the business cycle, some 314,000 more manufacturing jobs were added under Trump than under Obama, a 170% advantage"

Now, $12.00 is not a living wage - but:

1.) It is a step up to Taco Bell in terms of money, skills, etc.

2.) There are support jobs that go along with manufacturing that pay much more (pipe fitters, electricians, road construction, etc) that do not exist without manufacturing. That is why shifting our economy from ag/manufacturing to service related hollowed out the economy. It was not just the assembly line workers - it is the support jobs.

Just watch China - over the next 2 years, their de-industrialization will be greater than what we saw over the last 30 years. Their pain won't be over the iPhone assembly line workers making $2.00/hour - it is the infrastructure spending and support jobs that will crater their economy.

#63 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 05:17 AM | Reply

"He shouldn't spout rhetoric about jobs for Americans when he isn't willing to lead by example, should he?
#62 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

Trump is a pretty horrible person in many respects. He cheated on his wives, I probably would not loan him money, and his taste in gold plated everything is gaudy. However, I can separate the person from the policies - his policies are 100% correct for the country whether he follows them or not. To draw a parallel - you probably support DiCaprio and Gore's policies on Global Warming even though you probably don't support their carbon footprint (huge homes, private jets, etc). Why are you okay with them but then make everything so personal with Trump?

#64 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 05:22 AM | Reply

IRA

Trump loves taking credit for things he didn't do. To wit:

President Trump Claims Credit for Shell Plant Announced in 2012 Under President Obama

time.com

AP FACT CHECK: Trump swipes progress from Obama era

WASHINGTON (AP) " In President Donald Trump's estimation, the good times began to roll for the country on the night he was elected. So he doesn't hesitate to swipe job growth from the twilight of the Obama administration and claim it as his own.

That overreach, seen in his State of the Union speech and other forums, extends to his boast about the shrinking numbers of people on food stamps, where he's helped himself even more heartily to Obama-era progress. Likewise, a surge in energy production under President Barack Obama ended up on Trump's ledger of achievement.

Trump's speech to Congress made for a bountiful week of exaggeration, partial truth and outright error. Some highlights:

www.apnews.com

Read the articles, IRA. The Emperor Has No Clothes. Bluster, yes.

#65 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 05:30 AM | Reply

Why are you okay with them but then make everything so personal with Trump?

#64 | Posted by iragoldberg

Because he's a despicable human being. It isn't even about politics.

Glad to hear you're for unions and good paying jobs. Tax policy needs to be tweaked to reward investment in new manufacturing, creation of good paying jobs, etc.

The most recent trillion dollar tax cut led, as predicted, to stock buybacks and bonuses, not jobs as promised.

#66 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 05:34 AM | Reply

"Read the articles, IRA. The Emperor Has No Clothes. Bluster, yes.
#65 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY "

170% better performance. Your lib way of trying to steal credit for Obama from Trump is really desperate. An economy in slow recovery does not, all of the sudden, pick up steam and shift in the nature of the jobs created after 8 years on its own. That was Trump's policies on trade, regulation, taxes and signalling of more to come in the future. You will have 6 more years of Trump economic success to try to switch to Obama by the time he is out of office - I pity you for having that impossible task.

#67 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 05:36 AM | Reply

"Glad to hear you're for unions and good paying jobs. Tax policy needs to be tweaked to reward investment in new manufacturing, creation of good paying jobs, etc."

Yes. I would have liked to have strings attached on repatriation of overseas cash to force a portion to have been invested in fixed plant and equipment.

"The most recent trillion dollar tax cut led, as predicted, to stock buybacks and bonuses, not jobs as promised.
#66 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

I don't understand this hostility towards stock buy backs. That simply returns money to investors because the companies don't want to:

1.) create an unsupportable cost structure
2.) invest in projects with a risk weighted return under their cost of equity

What do you think happens to that money when it is returned to investors? Do they put it under their mattresses? Do they use it to buy 1 mega boat/house? Or, do they - for the most part - simply reinvest it into other companies? What they do overwhelmingly is invest in other companies which creates more jobs by making funding available and/or lower the cost of money so these marginal companies can now undertake new projects. The money does not disappear from the system - it is used productively.

#68 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 05:42 AM | Reply

2.) There are support jobs that go along with manufacturing that pay much more (pipe fitters, electricians, road construction, etc) that do not exist without manufacturing.

IRAGOLDBERG

Obama proposed the American Jobs Act that would have put several million people to work rebuilding out infrastructure. Republicans shut it, like 2 other similar bills, down. High paying jobs in the fields you just mentioned.

If only Republicans had helped Obama with the economy and putting people back to work! And our infrastructure would be in much better shape and its current "D" rating.

And all for less than the latest GOP $! trillion tax cut for individuals who didn't need it and corporations making record profits!

Third Obama jobs bill blocked in Senate - Washington Times

President Obama is now 0-for-3 in his push to stimulate jobs after Republicans led a filibuster Thursday of his latest proposal to boost infrastructure spending.

The loss follows defeats last month for Mr. Obama's full $447 billion jobs plan, and a separate slice of that plan that would have funded salaries for state and local teachers and emergency workers, all paid for by tax increases on Americans with annual incomes of $1 million or more.

Thursday's bill, which would have directed tens of billions toward infrastructure over the next decade, got 51 votes - one more than the two earlier plans, but still nine shy of the 60 needed to overcome a filibuster.

www.washingtontimes.com

#69 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 05:43 AM | Reply

#69 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Giving Obama a blank check just lined the pockets of his cronies with zero responsibility - like the couple billions in fed money flushed down the toilet on the CA choo-choo train.

Remember this: "As President Obama remarked in June 2011, "Shovel-ready was not as shovel-ready as we expected." He chuckled through the mea culpa, but it's no laughing matter. Obama failed to deliver"and at great cost to taxpayers"

"The Energy Department has handed out $35.2 billion in stimulus money to jumpstart the clean energy industry, but it's created more red ink than green jobs. Nationally, green technology accounts for just 2 percent of employment nationwide and there has been no marked boom in the industry."

"Obama promised the stimulus would put one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015. Last month, the Washington Post reported that "evidence is mounting that President Obama was overly optimistic" to make that pledge.
General Motors' Volt, expected to be a hybrid hit, fell far short of its sales goals in 2011 by 38 percent."

BTW, is GM still making the Volt? Yeah, I don't agree with giving Obama's clown car any more money than they already stole.

#70 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 05:54 AM | Reply

You're moving the goalposts, IRA

Rebuilding our infrastructure would have put millions of people to work in good paying jobs, and our infrastructure would be in much better shape.

Sure, some things didn't pan out as hoped, but the people who built those 400,000 electric vehicles had jobs they wouldn't have had. There are 171,000 GM workers still earning a living, 56,000 at AIG, and so on who wouldn't have jobs if many companies hadn't been saved through the stimulus.

Tax credits to improve energy efficiency in homes put untold numbers of people to work installing HVAC systems, windows, and so on.

I'm going to bed. I know you'll post more goalpost-moving stuff in the meantime. That's what you do.

Take care.

#71 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 06:04 AM | Reply

And we made a profit from the stimulus!

#72 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 06:06 AM | Reply

"Rebuilding our infrastructure would have put millions of people to work in good paying jobs, and our infrastructure would be in much better shape."

Depends on what infrastructure you build and how efficiently it was built. If it is projects like the CA choo-choo train, it would have been better just to hand out money directly to unemployed.

"Sure, some things didn't pan out as hoped, but the people who built those 400,000 electric vehicles had jobs they wouldn't have had."

The alternative would have been to not to try to use the stimulus money to reinvent the economy as green but to have invested in traditional - non green companies that would have had a much higher survival rate as well as a more immediate impact.

"There are 171,000 GM workers still earning a living, 56,000 at AIG, and so on who wouldn't have jobs if many companies hadn't been saved through the stimulus."

The auto bailout was a good thing. AIG and the big banks should have been allowed to fail. They would have been sold off at pennies on the dollar to new investors - the people hurt would have been the top 0.01%, which is why that did not occur.

"Tax credits to improve energy efficiency in homes put untold numbers of people to work installing HVAC systems, windows, and so on."

Cheaper and easier to have invested in fracking to lower energy costs than to invest in marginal 'efficiency gain'.

Sleep tight...remember to check for Russians under your bed.

#73 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 06:11 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Six out of seven employers.
#20 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2019-08-13 03:54 PM

6 of 7, of those specifically targeted by ICE, in a state with hundreds of thousands of businesses, where less than 400 illegals were detained, in an economy with 11,000,000 employed illegal immigrants.

No, your employer crackdown will never, ever work. Trump's push for mandatory E-verify is the closest thing to what you want, but is still a system heavily limited by the accuracy and timeliness of stolen identity reporting.

#74 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-14 08:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#33 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 08:18 PM

Your causation/correlation link is broken.
"The number of illegal immigrants in the United States has leveled off but may be on the rise again, following a sharp drop that accompanied the start of the Great Recession, according to a report released Monday."
www.washingtonpost.com

When the housing market stopped making new houses, then they stopped hiring low wage workers with questionable documentation.
When the job market dried up, citizens sought work wherever they could get it, settling for those jobs that citizens "won't do".
Yes that happened during the Obama administration, but neither he nor his policies were the cause of it according to the research done on the subject.

"Increasing Evidence That Recession Has Caused Number of Unauthorized Immigrants in U.S. to Drop."
www.migrationpolicy.org

Unauthorized Immigrant population peaked in 2006 before declining in the wake of the Great Recession
inequality.stanford.edu

#75 | Posted by avigdore at 2019-08-14 08:28 AM | Reply

So why weren't there any charges against the employers? - #17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-13 03:27 PM
Occam's Razor indicates: perhaps they don't feel that there is sufficient evidence of criminality to overcome reasonable doubt? - #14 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-13 02:36 PM
The same reason that DAs have had for not charging people (or businesses) with crimes, even when they -know- who did the crime, when, where and why.

Trump hasn't matched any of Obama's yearly job gains yet.
2009: Negative 422,000 per month Lost 5.1 million jobs (height of the recession)
2010: 88,000 per month or 1.05 million for the year
2011: 174,000 per month or 2.09 million
2012: 179,000 per month or 2.14 million
Trump's 2 full years of employment figures::
2017: 182,000 per month or 2.19 million
2018 193,000 per month or 2.32 million
#49 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-13 10:25 PM

So he didn't match Obama's numbers, but instead exceeded them? ... .that's a good thing, you know, right?

America had years of increasing employment during Obama's 8 years as president. - #59 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-14 02:39 AM
The correct term is 'slowest recovery in modern history'.
"Oct 05, 2016 Donald Trump is right: this is the slowest economic recovery since World War II."
money.cnn.com

#76 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-14 08:49 AM | Reply

"No, your employer crackdown will never, ever work."

Well of course not, if your worker-to-hirer arrest ratio is 680 to zero.

If six of seven participated, and zero of seven were arrested, there has NOT been an " employer" crackdown.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-14 09:07 AM | Reply

Georgia says you're wrong Boaz.

#78 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-08-14 09:12 AM | Reply

If six of seven participated, and zero of seven were arrested, there has NOT been an " employer" crackdown.
#77 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-08-14 09:07 AM | REPLY

or the "crackdown" went exactly like it was supposed to, and employer's did the minimum required to vet their employees. SSNs are cheap to buy in bulk.

#79 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-14 09:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good luck cracking down on people like Moder8 that admitted using illegal labor on purpose and pay in cash to avoid detection.

#80 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-08-14 09:48 AM | Reply

#79 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

They used EVerify as required by law....

what more is a company supposed to do? Discrminate? That JohnSmith looks Hispanic and not hire him ... you are looking at an ACLU lawsuit.

EVerify is, as most government programs are the great hope that never was.

#81 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-08-14 10:03 AM | Reply

"The correct term is 'slowest recovery in modern history'. "

Recovering from what? Oh yeah, the worst economic disaster since the Great Republican Depression of 1929. You are a laughable talking point repeater. Nothing more.

#82 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-14 10:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--"No, your employer crackdown will never, ever work."

Never. The logistics are impossible. The lawsuits would never end. None of the Democrat candidates have advocated it. And if they did, the SJW mob would come down on them with endless screeching of "racism." You're more likely to see ICE abolished than an employer crackdown by a Democrat president.

#83 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-14 10:12 AM | Reply

"They used EVerify as required by law...."

What a laugh. As if six of the seven participated doesn't trump "they used e-verify".

#84 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-14 10:16 AM | Reply

"You're more likely to see ICE abolished than an employer crackdown by a Democrat president."

Enforcement against employers ended with Reagan. The employers who exploit illegal alien labor are contributors to the Republican Party, they pay to have the laws ignored.

#85 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-14 10:16 AM | Reply

--Reagan

*drink*

#86 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-14 10:20 AM | Reply

The discussion I heard on NPR about e-verify was that without biometric verification of identity it just won't work, identity theft is too easily accomplished without it. The problem is that it would cost too much.

#87 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-14 10:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"--Reagan
*drink*"

"Truth"

drink!

#88 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-14 10:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The problem is that it would cost too much.
#87 | POSTED BY DANNI"

The problem is that the Democrat leadership are now 100% against immigration enforcement and a powerful portion of the GOP is in the same boat. So, it really doesn't matter what a majority of people want. No different than gun control.

#89 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-14 11:20 AM | Reply

Employers should use the same system as ICE to verify workers.

Conficate the businesses if they dont use ICE to verify.

Solved.

#90 | Posted by bored at 2019-08-15 12:23 AM | Reply

"Because there are almost 10 Million FederalWorkAuthorizations authorized today."

Two things:

1. If that's the case, then the 1% claim is off by 900%.

2. If that's the case, then the claim there are 11 million "undocumented" workers is a bald-faced lie.

#91 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-15 01:16 AM | Reply

#90 | POSTED BY BORED

Dems would never allow that. But it is a great idea. Personally, I think we need a secure ID (government provided) and it should be used for employment, voting, buying a gun, getting a drivers license, collecting government services, and attending school.

#92 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-15 01:32 AM | Reply

I think we need a secure ID (government provided) and it should be used for ... voting..."

And let me guess: while the ID is free, the paperwork to get the ID isn't. And it's not done automatically, the person has to go to the government office...during work hours...and the only available offices happen to be on the wealthier side of town.

#93 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-15 01:51 AM | Reply

"And let me guess: while the ID is free, the paperwork to get the ID isn't. And it's not done automatically, the person has to go to the government office...during work hours...and the only available offices happen to be on the wealthier side of town.
#93 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

LOL. The Dems fear over providing ID to vote is second only to their fear of Russians under their beds.

#94 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-15 02:03 AM | Reply

"And let me guess: while the ID is free, the paperwork to get the ID isn't. And it's not done automatically, the person has to go to the government office...during work hours...and the only available offices happen to be on the wealthier side of town.

#93 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

And how many people will this highly contrived scenario exclude?

#95 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-15 02:05 AM | Reply

Get rid of undocumented,

Won't happen.

salaries will rise;

No guarantees.

Americans will work

Nothing preventing that from happening now.

____________________________________

#96 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-15 03:21 AM | Reply

"Nothing preventing that from happening now.
____________________________________
#96 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

Other than the employers being able to hire non-citizens at lower than market rates.

#97 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-08-15 03:24 AM | Reply

"Other than the employers being able to hire non-citizens at lower than market rates."

Time to start frog-marching the hirers who purposely look the other way.

#98 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-15 03:40 AM | Reply

Other than the employers being able to hire non-citizens at lower than market rates.

All you got are excuses.

Report the employer.

Or. Better yet.

Go get an education. Learn some skills. Have something of value to offer.

#99 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-15 03:43 AM | Reply

"this highly contrived scenario..."

I just used the general touchstones for garden variety voter suppression: restricted hours, special needs, and fewer open offices in poor areas. Maybe that's why it seemed familiar.

"...how many people will this ... exclude"

Ask the suppressionists. They always know: add requirement A, and you suppress 10K votes; add B and you suppress 25K; require both, and it's 50K.

You'll admit requiring say, a birth certificate isn't going to affect your average voter as much as, say, an 80yr old black woman born in a poor rural hospital, right?

#100 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-15 03:53 AM | Reply

You're right. She probably has a lot more free time available to handle getting her paperwork together.

#101 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-15 08:32 AM | Reply

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