Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, August 16, 2019

People who support high levels of low-skilled immigration often claim that immigrants do work that native-born residents won't. The facts surrounding the Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids of seven Mississippi chicken processing plants show how untrue that claim is. Documents released Thursday suggest that the operators of those plants knowingly hired undocumented immigrants for years in violation of federal law. They show that many of the workers wore ankle bracelets provided by ICE to monitor their location while others used multiple names and provided different Social Security numbers when applying to work at the same plant. If true, the only logical conclusion can be the operators wanted to hire people whose illegal status meant they wouldn't push for higher wages or make trouble.

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Georgia says you're full of schit.

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-08-16 06:24 PM | Reply

--Georgia

*drink*

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-16 06:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Take."

You can't take a job.
You can only be given a job.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-16 06:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

From the cited article:

...Documents released Thursday suggest that the operators of those plants knowingly hired undocumented immigrants for years in violation of federal law. They show that many of the workers wore ankle bracelets provided by ICE to monitor their location while others used multiple names and provided different Social Security numbers when applying to work at the same plant. If true, the only logical conclusion can be the operators wanted to hire people whose illegal status meant they wouldn't push for higher wages or make trouble.....

[emphasis mine]

That puts a nice emphasis upon what I've been saying all along.

Illegal immigrants do not take jobs from American workers.

Employers give the jobs to illegal immigrants instead of American workers. All for the purpose of higher profits.

If the employers did not give the jobs to illegal immigrants, and instead advertised for locals (as was done after the raids in Mississippi) then they'd probably have a line of Americans looking for the jobs, at higher wages than what was paid the illegal immigrants.

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-16 06:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#3 ... You can't take a job.
You can only be given a job. ...

That op-ed must have been written as a ringer.

Put a provocative headline on it then show, via the text of the op-ed, how the headline was so blatantly false.

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-16 06:39 PM | Reply

Lock'em up. Fine them into bankruptcy. Close the plant.

Pro-union democrats should be demanding it.

#6 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-16 06:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Fat Andy Mattress hasn't worked a day in his miserable and pathetic life.
Unless the day comes when his daddy replaces him with an illegal immigrant and cuts off his trust fund he really needs to STFU.

#7 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2019-08-16 06:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#6 ... Lock'em up. Fine them into bankruptcy. Close the plant. ...

I'm sure the laws allegedly broken have appropriate and proportional penalties.

No need to go off the deep end.

imo, if such punishment results in employers across the Country hiring only people who are legally able to fill the jobs, that would be A Good Thing.

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-16 06:52 PM | Reply

"If true, the only logical conclusion can be the operators wanted to hire people whose illegal status meant they wouldn't push for higher wages or make trouble."

Is this good business sense or bad business sense?
I'm confident one of our resident right-wing economic geniuses can explain it to me.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-16 06:57 PM | Reply

#8 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Agreed.

#10 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-16 07:01 PM | Reply

No need to go off the deep end.
#8 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

I'm not. I actually mean it.

Lock'em up. Fine them into bankruptcy. Close the plant.

#11 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-16 07:06 PM | Reply

"I'm sure the laws allegedly broken have appropriate and proportional penalties."

LOL.
Just LOL.

What Are the Penalties for Hiring an Illegal Immigrant? www.legalmatch.com
Hiring illegal immigrants can lead to many severe penalties, such as:

Criminal and civil fines
Loss of business licenses
Most fines are broken down to the following:

First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-16 07:17 PM | Reply

@#11

The very large problem is that a part of the economy of the Country is based upon employers intentionally giving jobs to the illegal immigrants for very low wages.

That is the ultimate challenge that needs to be resolved.

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-08-16 07:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#12 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Sounds like democrats are soft on employing illegals. They used to support unions.

#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

I'm aware; I was a union member. Democrats sold out years ago.

#14 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-16 08:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Georgia

*drink*

#2 | Posted by nullifidian

And you call me a drunk...

#15 | Posted by jpw at 2019-08-17 12:35 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Documents released Thursday suggest that the operators of those plants knowingly hired undocumented immigrants for years in violation of federal law. They show that many of the workers wore ankle bracelets provided by ICE to monitor their location while others used multiple names and provided different Social Security numbers when applying to work at the same plant. If true, the only logical conclusion can be the operators wanted to hire people whose illegal status meant they wouldn't push for higher wages or make trouble.....

Well, why didn't you say so?
Get back to me when sufficient evidence of wrongdoing exists to file criminal charges that the government can prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

#16 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-08-17 09:06 AM | Reply

"Get back to me when sufficient evidence of wrongdoing exists to file criminal charges"

Translation: First, let's all pretend we're stupid....

#17 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-17 10:58 AM | Reply

As we have all read in the last several weeks, it's greedy employers who fired union meat cutters and hired illegal aliens but the six oclock news won't explain it that way to you. They prefer you just learn to hate brown people and American are learning quite readily.

#18 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-17 02:36 PM | Reply

"Get back to me when sufficient evidence of wrongdoing exists to file criminal charges"

You'd just mimic Trump and call if fake news. You don't even feel anger about employers doing what those crooks do. You ideology owns you, you can't think for yourself.

#19 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-17 02:41 PM | Reply

- greedy employers who fired union meat cutters and hired illegal aliens

And the same Democratic leadership is fighting to import and protect even more illegal immigrants.

You can't even see the irony of "pro-labor, pro-union" democrats lying to you.

#20 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-17 02:59 PM | Reply

"And the same Democratic leadership is fighting to import and protect even more illegal immigrants."

Pay a little more attention to the consequences of our low birth rate and it will make sense to you. And Democrats are fighting to import anyone they are just fighting to have those who come here to work be treated humanely.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-17 04:30 PM | Reply

- Pay a little more attention to the consequences of our low birth rate and it will make sense to you.

A 2-3% decrease in fertility rates between 2017-2018 means we need to import 28-yr-old chicken plant workers?

You're parroting someones talking points, because you sure didn't think it up yourself.

#22 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-17 04:55 PM | Reply

Recent reports indicate that there are 7.6m employment opportunities available in the US and only 6.5m job seekers:

www.vox.com

Are these 6.5m unemployed because illegal immigrant took a job?

Further, the estimate of illegal immigrants employed in the US workforce is 7.6m:

www.pewresearch.org

If the US successfully removed all illegal immigrant workers, there would be 15.2m job openings and 6.5m job seekers to fill them. I don't doubt wages would rise, but it's anyone's guess what the negative impact of 8.7m jobs without workers would be.

The recent events in Mississippi provide a current example - following the ICE raids, Koch Foods lost 243 workers and held a job fair which attracted roughly 150 potential employees - a shortfall of 93:

www.bizpacreview.com

What the US needs is not to persecute illegals for working, but to introduce a system that allows those who are needed - and there are clearly millions - to do so legally. I won't hold my breath - the US is the only country on the planet which rivals my own for self-destructive stupidity.

#23 | Posted by Foreigner at 2019-08-17 05:09 PM | Reply

If a company hires am illegal knowingly, isnt all profit made considered illegal gains?

Also, if illegal acts are involved, it cannot be used to reduce the taxes of the business?

A business can right off wages legally paid. But, illegal employment? Wouldnt those wages be non deductible as an expense. Anything paid or gained connected to illegal act has no benefit involving taxes.???

#24 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-08-17 06:55 PM | Reply

Arrest all the illegals and illegal hiring employers. Prosecute and convict.

Then! As the Constitution allows, as punishment for a convicted person, sell them into slavery.

#25 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-08-17 06:57 PM | Reply

"A 2-3% decrease in fertility rates between 2017-2018 means we need to import 28-yr-old chicken plant workers?"

Unless you are willing to stop eating chicken or start paying a lot more for it....yes. All those jobs used to be union jobs. No one with a choice is going to choose to work in a meat packing plant. So, it's either pay high wages or hire people without a voice to object, the industry chose to hire people with no voice. Americans aren't lining up to take those jobs are they? Because the owners pay crap wages, jeopardize workers' safety, offer no benefits. Hell, only an illegal alien would want those jobs and that was the intent of the ownership.
And yes, the birth rate will be, increasingly, a factor in the argument about immigration. That's just arithmetic. You can argue with me, you can play partisan games but, in the end, you can't argue with arithmetic.

#26 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-18 08:27 AM | Reply

WHO KNEW?

#27 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-08-18 09:58 AM | Reply

#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2019-08-16 07:59 PM | FLAG: True. Last year a neighbor down the street has his house and garage reroofed and I walked down and talked to the owner of the small company when he dropped by to check on the progress. I asked and he admitted that all his roofers were illegals as being a small company he needed them to allow a 'decent profit'.

#28 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-08-18 11:10 AM | Reply

"he needed them to allow a 'decent profit'."

Translation: I found folks who I could exploit, and put the money into MY pocket instead of THEIRS.

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 11:17 AM | Reply

"...but, in the end, you can't argue with arithmetic."

You're joking, right? They'll just use Republican Math, where 2 + 2 = Whatever my current agenda requires.

#30 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 11:19 AM | Reply

--28 | POSTED BY MSGT

You see thousands of these contractors with truck loads of illegal migrants in Southern California neighborhoods. They go door to door with their english-speaking boss offering various services.

#31 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-18 11:25 AM | Reply

Americans aren't lining up to take those jobs are they? Because the owners pay crap wages, jeopardize workers' safety, offer no benefits. Hell, only an illegal alien would want those jobs and that was the intent of the ownership.

#26 | POSTED BY DANNI

Why would democrats support this and fight to continue importing desperate laborers that can be exploited?

"And yes, the birth rate will be, increasingly, a factor in the argument about immigration. That's just arithmetic. You can argue with me, you can play partisan games but, in the end, you can't argue with arithmetic."

How does your arithmetic justify importing illegal immigrants today, when the recent 2-3% dip in US birth rates won't even begin to factor in until 20 years from now?

Like I said, these are someone else's talking points that you're just repeating.

#32 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 11:39 AM | Reply

Translation: I found folks who I could exploit, and put the money into MY pocket instead of THEIRS.
#29 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Why does DNC Danforth and his slaphappy band of centrists allow this?

Wait...this IS the plan, isn't it?

#33 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 11:41 AM | Reply

"...but, in the end, you can't argue with arithmetic."
You're joking, right? They'll just use Republican Math, where 2 + 2 = Whatever my current agenda requires.

#30 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Please explain the math then, Mr. Financial Expert.

How does a 2-3% dip in US birthrate in 2017-2018 require us to import illegal immigrants to work in chicken plants today?

#34 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 11:43 AM | Reply

"Why does DNC Danforth and his slaphappy band of centrists allow this?"

Why is Sheeple such a lying moron?

I've advocated frog-marching the hirers. Scumsuckers like you can't deal with the solution, and can't address the truth, so you've been reduced to lying about it.

Nice werk!

#35 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 11:47 AM | Reply

"Please explain the math then, Mr. Financial Expert."

I'm operating on the concept 1 > 0.

Tell us: do you understand conceptual math, where you look at how the dials turn, and can then make claims based on the obvious resultant macro changes?

Just kidding; of course you don't.

#36 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 11:51 AM | Reply

I've advocated frog-marching the hirers.
#35 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

When will your DNC masters demand the same?

#37 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 12:07 PM | Reply

I'm operating on the concept 1 > 0.
#36 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I'm operating on the concept that a 2-3% dip in birth rate today, doesn't require us to import illegal immigrants to work in chicken plants for at least 20 years from now.

You know, when the dip in birthrate might actually have an impact on the number of available employees in the pool.

Because, and correct me if I'm wrong, but, infants can't work in poultry plants.

#38 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 12:11 PM | Reply

"When will your DNC masters demand the same?"

I'm not a Democrat, and never have been.. Now what?

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 12:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"I'm operating on the concept that a 2-3% dip in birth rate today, doesn't require us to import illegal immigrants to work in chicken plants for at least 20 years from now"

I'm operating on the concept the immigrants would be here to work as well, not just to produce babies.

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 12:17 PM | Reply

Danforth, you supported Danni's ridiculous claim:

And yes, the birth rate will be, increasingly, a factor in the argument about immigration. That's just arithmetic.
#26 | POSTED BY DANNI

...to which you replied:

"...but, in the end, you can't argue with arithmetic."
You're joking, right? They'll just use Republican Math, where 2 + 2 = Whatever my current agenda requires.
#30 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

So explain the math to me.

How does a 2-3% dip in today's birthrate, infants who won't enter the workforce for another 20 years, justify hiring illegal immigrants today, to work in chicken plants?

#41 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 01:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You can argue with me, you can play partisan games but, in the end, you can't argue with arithmetic."

(Spends remainder of thread arguing with arithmetic)

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-18 02:00 PM | Reply

*Snoofy can't explain it either*

#43 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 02:03 PM | Reply

What number is the sky in your world, SheepleSchism?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-18 02:06 PM | Reply

*Snoofy can't explain it either*

#45 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 02:15 PM | Reply

What flavor is the sky in your world, SheepleSchism?

Simple questions.
You have no answers.
Why is that?
???

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-18 02:16 PM | Reply

Snoofy still can't explain it.... changes subject to 'flavor of sky'.

Meanwhile, supports illegal immigrant workers hiding from LEO and identity theft.

Wants unaccompanied immigrant minors to wander freely "to wherever they were going".

#47 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 02:26 PM | Reply

All you have is false claims about me.

And it's all to distract yourself from your own painfully obvious shortcomings. As evidenced by the fact that you can't answer a simple question:

What flavor is the sky in your world?

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-18 02:33 PM | Reply

You inserted yourself. The math question remains:

How does a 2-3% dip in today's birthrate, infants who won't enter the workforce for another 20 years, justify hiring illegal immigrants today, to work in chicken plants?
#41 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

*Snoofy can't explain it either*

#49 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 02:40 PM | Reply

All you have is false claims about me #48 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Wants unaccompanied immigrant minors to wander freely "to wherever they were going". - You said that.

supports illegal immigrant workers hiding from LEO and identity theft. You obviously support this, considering you argue for the continuation of illegal immigrants in the workforce; which can only happen once of two ways: 1) under the table, or 2) stolen identities.

As for Danni's asinine claim that US birthrate dictates using illegal labor, I'll accept your inability to counter as confirmation of the obvious: it's a stupid argument.

#50 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 02:52 PM | Reply

"How does a 2-3% dip in today's birthrate, infants who won't enter the workforce for another 20 years, justify hiring illegal immigrants today"

To fill in for the excess of job openings to job seekers. You know...math.

#51 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 03:28 PM | Reply

#51 What correlation is there between children born in 2017-2018 to todays job openings requiring illegal immigrants?

#52 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-18 03:30 PM | Reply

"#51 What correlation is there between children born in 2017-2018 to todays job openings requiring illegal immigrants?"

Mom and Dad.

Are you actually going to pretend the parents are just going to come here to have babies? Your very premise assumes a fantasy world where twenty-something immigrants won't be coming here to work AT ALL.

#53 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-18 03:34 PM | Reply

"todays job openings requiring illegal immigrants"

^
The only thing you've been clear on in this whole thread is that illegals aren't taking our jobs.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-18 04:56 PM | Reply

"What correlation is there between children born in 2017-2018 to todays job openings requiring illegal immigrants?"

Children eat chicken.
Enjoy your correlation!

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-18 05:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#6 give the plant to the workers.

#56 | Posted by ichiro at 2019-08-19 05:06 AM | Reply

#50 they aren't "stolen identities" they're made up by the employer or real, "undocumented."

#57 | Posted by ichiro at 2019-08-19 05:12 AM | Reply

Lock'em up. Fine them into bankruptcy. Close the plant.
Pro-union democrats should be demanding it.

#6 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM AT 2019-08-16 06:39 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 4

Agreed

When Bill Clinton ran first term I belonged to a labor union. Our leadership endorsed Clinton and continued supporting him even though he signed NAFTA. He was no friend of labor but all the Labor officials with posh jobs and perks continued to back the Democrats.

Nothing about this article is tilted to one party or the other. Neither party cares about illegal immigrants being exploited for their labor. It's all about greed. The way greedy people see it is that labor laws dont apply to undocumented workers and undocumented workers dont complain... it's a win all the way around.

#58 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-08-19 12:25 PM | Reply

"...it's a win all the way around."
#58 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Except for the union members or undercutting the integrity and purpose of the union to begin with. It's union busting by other means. The target is blue collar tradesmen, craft, and skilled labor.

But you're right, at its center is greed and profits.

#59 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-19 02:12 PM | Reply

Translation: I found folks who I could exploit, and put the money into MY pocket instead of THEIRS.

#29 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-08-18 11:17 AM | FLAG: Isn't that why someone starts a business? OR, do you think people start a business for the purpose of paying others at the 'expense' of themselves. Considering your indicated background one would think that you understood how a small business owner lives and feeds his family from the business profits after expenses.

#60 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-08-19 04:06 PM | Reply

"FLAG: Isn't that why someone starts a business?"

To exploit other people at the most vulnerable times of their lives?!? Hopefully not.

"OR, do you think people start a business for the purpose of paying others at the 'expense' of themselves."

I don't believe it's an either/or. I don't believe you have to either exploit people or go bust.

"Considering your indicated background one would think that you understood how a small business owner lives and feeds his family from the business profits after expenses."

I understand it fully, and I live it. However, I DON'T exploit my assistant; in fact, I overpay her purposefully. And I still make a decent profit. Could I profit more if I underpaid her? Of course I could.

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-08-19 05:31 PM | Reply

I understand it fully, and I live it. However, I DON'T exploit my assistant; in fact, I overpay her purposefully. And I still make a decent profit. Could I profit more if I underpaid her? Of course I could.

#61 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-08-19 05:31 PM | FLAG: Glad that you are so 'woke' that you overpay employees. Must business owners do not have the luxury of having such a great business income as you obviously have.

BTW: I am not condoning hiring illegals as if I had my way none would be hired, but that being said, since my family established and owned a small business for three generations [where there were no illegals], I do understand how a family run business is their sole source of income that the family lives on, and unlike you, there was not 'giveaway money' {extra money to hand to employees beyond paying them what their labor was worth}. Not faulting you, as obviously your business is fiscally extremely successful, whereas our family business had to sustain both my family and our uncle's family.

#62 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-08-19 05:50 PM | Reply

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