Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, August 21, 2019

The Amazon has been burning for weeks amid increasing deforestation. The intense smoke was detected by NASA and plunged So Paulo into darkness on Monday.

Advertisement

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Not sure how many people care about forest fires.

They're so common in California we just write them off as something we deal with during the summer months.

But the rainforest burning, for weeks on end, doesn't bode well for the future.

This is, of course, if you believe humans are impacting the environment and causing the earths temperature to rise at an accelerated rate. Which. A lot of our conservative brethren don't.

To top it off, authorities aren't attempting to put the fire out.

BRAZIL'S JAIR BOLSONARO BLASTED FOR INACTION OVER 3-WEEK-LONG FOREST FIRES RAVAGING THE 'LUNGS OF OUR PLANET'

www.newsweek.com

#1 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 07:18 PM | Reply

Also.

Wildfires are burning around the world. The most alarming is in the Amazon rainforest.

www.vox.com

Some excerpts:


"More than 21,000 square miles of forest have gone up in flames in Siberia this month,

On Monday, a wildfire in the Canary Islands forced more than 8,000 people to flee. Over the weekend, new fires ignited in Alaska, extending what's already been an unusually long fire season for the state. Last week, Denmark dispatched firefighters to Greenland combat a wildfire approaching inhabited areas. If not extinguished, officials are worried the blaze would burn through the winter, further driving up the already massive ice melt Greenland has experienced this year amid record heat.

#2 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 07:22 PM | Reply

This has been a great year in southeast BC. Hardly any smoke at all beyond a week back in May. The last 3 years have been very limited visibility all summer.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-20 07:27 PM | Reply

It's a necessary part of natures cleansing cycle.

Why do you hate nature?

#4 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-20 07:27 PM | Reply

It's been a pretty mild summer here in California too.

Haven't had crazy fires like we normally do.

I'm pretty sure last year's fire cleared a lot of the available debris.

That and all the raking we've been doing.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 07:30 PM | Reply

#5 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

I'm not breathing a sigh of relief until we get through September.

#6 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-08-20 07:38 PM | Reply

That and all the raking we've been doing.

Funny you should say that, I was hiking Upper Temescal/Sullivan Canyon this weekend and in the middle of nowhere came upon a Mountain Conservancy crew...wait for it...raking.

#7 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-08-20 07:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I'm not breathing a sigh of relief until we get through September.

No kidding. Things change fast. I have a 3 day rocket launch in late September that will only go if we get a pile of rain before now and then. Not looking promising.

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-08-20 07:50 PM | Reply

--...wait for it...raking.

Hahahaha.

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-20 07:52 PM | Reply

I was hiking Upper Temescal/Sullivan Canyon this weekend and in the middle of nowhere

I wouldn't consider Upper Temescal/Sullivan Canyon, to be in the middle of no where.

Like say, the national forests.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 07:57 PM | Reply

Advertisement

Advertisement

#10

I know, but that little piece of anecdotal evidence was just that.

#11 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-08-20 08:15 PM | Reply

I know, but that little piece of anecdotal evidence was just that.

I know.

I really wanted to give your comment a funny flag. I know you were playing off my line "and all the raking we've been doing."

I just couldn't control myself.

#12 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 08:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#12

Interestingly enough, when you go all the way up the Temescal Ridge (going towards Backbone) by entering at the Highlands, you are kind of in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking. You can also cut over to Topanga from the Ridge, but it is fairly rough terrain.

#13 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-08-20 08:31 PM | Reply

There's a path from the top of Reseda that can be hiked all the way to Temescal. Or over to Topanga.

I've yet to do the hike, IIRC, someone said it took several hours to do so. (Seven hours keeps popping up in my head, but I'm sure that's wrong).

Then there would be the return hike...

I guess that's what Uber's are for.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 09:04 PM | Reply

We learned in grade school that the Amazon supplies a lot of the Earth's oxygen. If we keep cutting down forests around the world CO2 will only continue to increase.

Here are maps of North America before and after we started clear cutting/burning forests to plant crops:

1620: upload.wikimedia.org

1926: en.wikipedia.org

#15 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-20 09:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#14

I have done that hike (one way, then Ubered back to the Palisades), if memory serves, from the Valley you take Reseda Spur Trail to Fire Road 30 to Temescal Fire Road/Backbone to Temescal Ridge. It's about 14 miles across, if you leave early it is about a 5 hour hike.

#16 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-08-20 09:13 PM | Reply

#16

Yes, that's the hike.

5 hours seems more manageable than 7. But it's still a good amount of time. Maybe I'll try it one of these days.

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-20 09:28 PM | Reply

"Over the weekend, new fires ignited in Alaska, extending what's already been an unusually long fire season for the state."

Denali National Park and Preserve

19 hrs

Are you planning a trip to Denali National Park and Preserve from the south this week? Please note, the McKinley Fire (#738), which began Saturday near Milepost 91 of the Parks Highway, is currently impacting travel on the Parks Highway as well as train service. Due to high winds over the weekend, the fire spread quickly to over 3,000 acres, jumping the highway and tracks and sparking evacuation from adjacent areas. Traffic along the Parks Highway is open, but vehicles are being led by pilot cars between Mileposts 71 to 99. Motorists should expect long delays and intermittent closures. Alaska State Troopers and the Alaska National Guard are assisting with traffic control efforts.

The Alaska Railroad is currently experiencing long delays and may substitute motorcoach service north of Anchorage and south of Fairbanks due to the McKinley Fire. Numerous burned trees have fallen on the tracks; crews are in the process of removing downed trees and are continually monitoring the situation.

Up-to-date information on the McKinley Fire is available from Alaska DNR- Division of Forestry (DOF), including Live Feed events throughout the day!

#akwildfire #alaskawildfire #dnrwildfire

#18 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-08-21 10:01 AM | Reply

Follow-up Denali National Park and Preserve FB post:

The areas that are currently burning are wooded with lots of shrubs. There is some tundra there but it is mostly forested. Tundra can in fact burn and these fires are often very difficult to fight as they can go under ground and continue to simmer for long periods of time. The cause of this wildfire appears to be high winds, downed power lines, and dry conditions. Weather in Alaska this year has been pretty variable, including record high temperatures and dry conditions/drought south of the Alaska Range. In comparison, north of the Range, Denali National Park just received record rainfall. Due to changing climates, Alaska is seeing more extreme weather events, warmer overall temperatures, and shorter winters with fewer days of extreme cold. With these changes, it is possible Alaska might see more frequent and severe wildfires as a consequence.

#19 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-08-21 10:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's a necessary part of natures cleansing cycle."

Straight out of the Ecofascist talking point bible.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 10:04 AM | Reply

Has our president and chief fire expert weighed in on this? Why isn't Bolsonaro raking the Amazon?

#21 | Posted by JOE at 2019-08-21 10:11 AM | Reply

The Left Discovers Eco-Fascism

How charming: the left has belatedly discovered something conservatives have known for 50 years or more"that environmentalism, especially in its dominant ideological forms, is prone to fascism. Remember that "environmentalism" very quickly replaced "ecology""the more generic scientific term"not long after the first Earth Day in 1970

www.powerlineblog.com

#22 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 10:12 AM | Reply

Perhaps I'm being a harbinger of doom but I do think we are doomed. I hate it because of kids and grandkids but I just don't see how we, as a race of human beings, are going to fix this. I honestly hope I am wrong but, unfortunately, I suspect I am not.
When the end does come I do hope that folks like the Koch brothers are gripping their money when they die along with the rest of us and, at least, acknowledge that they had a large part of contributing to all of our demise. We've known about global warming for decades yet our government is still not willing to deal with it because rich people, like the Koch brothers, don't want to lose profits by admitting global warming is going to kill all of us.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 10:17 AM | Reply

#21 Way to drag Trump onto a thread that has nothing to do with him, Joe.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 10:19 AM | Reply

#21 Way to drag Trump onto a thread that has nothing to do with him, Joe.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-08-21 10:19 AM | REPLY

You do that with Obama ALL of the time so..................

#25 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-08-21 10:25 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#25 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2019-08-21 10:25 AM | REPLY | FLAG: Jefflexia

#26 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 10:33 AM | Reply

#21 Way to drag Trump onto a thread that has nothing to do with him, Joe.

#24 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You know... I would say that you have a point. But, Trump tends to comment on a lot of things that have nothing to do with him and that he has no real knowledge or experience with. So it actually WOULD NOT surprise me if Trump commented on this (in some ignorant and divisive way) and, thinking about it, I am somewhat surprised he has not already. Must not have found a way to spin it to insult liberals. Just wait until Fox and Friends picks it up. Then we will get a tweet.

So, I would say that it is relevant. Just because the scenario Joe suggests isn't all that unlikely.

#27 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-08-21 10:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I have to say, I'm happy I'm in my mid-50s and that my wife and I never had kids. Our generation's self-obsessed greed and stupidity has F'ed this planet permanently for coming generations. People are already fighting wars over water (Libya).

#28 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2019-08-21 10:35 AM | Reply

The current burning of the rainforest is intentional. It is being cleared for agriculture. It is very poor soil though. Three fourths of the soil in the Amazon is a clay-like laterite soil that is reddish or yellowish. This soil is acidic and poor in nutrients.

#29 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-21 10:43 AM | Reply

Whatabout Whataboutism?

#30 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-08-21 10:47 AM | Reply

The Amazon has been burning for weeks amid increasing deforestation. The intense smoke was detected by NASA and plunged So Paulo into darkness on Monday.

All that smoke seen in space is actually Trump's hair on fire after seeing his latest poll numbers ...

Bernie and Biden only Democrats beating Trump in new poll
drudge.com

Go Bernie and save the trees!

#31 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-08-21 10:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#27 Fair enough, GTBrit.

I retract #21.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 10:48 AM | Reply

It's a necessary part of natures cleansing cycle.

Why do you hate nature?

#4 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Just here to see who'd be the first pro-amazon burning moron to post on the thread.

You never disappoint.

#33 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 11:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Left Discovers Eco-Fascism

How charming: the left has belatedly discovered something conservatives have known for 50 years or more"that environmentalism, especially in its dominant ideological forms, is prone to fascism. Remember that "environmentalism" very quickly replaced "ecology""the more generic scientific term"not long after the first Earth Day in 1970

www.powerlineblog.com

#22 | Posted by nullifidian

So nulli is cool with fascism, just not ECO fascism.

Nice link by the way. You get all your news from pathetic low budget propaganda sources?

#34 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 11:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"It's a necessary part of natures cleansing cycle.

Why do you hate nature?

#4 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Just here to see who'd be the first pro-amazon burning moron to post on the thread.

You never disappoint.

POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

He spoke the truth. Forest fires are indeed a part of the natural cycle. In fact, there are some trees whose seeds will not germinate without a fire. Why don't you address his true statement rather than resorting to calling names like you always do? It would be a refereshing change to see you leave the schoolyard for a post or two.

www.britannica.com

#35 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 11:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

www.britannica.com

#36 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 11:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"#33 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-08-21 11:11 AM"

I don't know why the links above didn't take. I see them when I googled. So here's another link to pyrophytes, plants that need fire to propogate and/or thrive.

Sheepleschism is correct. Educate yourself.

en.wikipedia.org

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 11:27 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"2016 was the warmest year on record.
NASA and NOAA data show that global averages in 2016 were 1.78 degrees F (0.99 degrees C) warmer than the mid-20th century average. Seventeen of the 18 warmest years have occurred since 2000."

www.conservation.org

Pretend all you want that the number of forest fires we have had is normal but the planet won't pretend with you. Got a rake? Get busy.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 11:57 AM | Reply

"#33 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-08-21 11:11 AM"
I don't know why the links above didn't take. I see them when I googled. So here's another link to pyrophytes, plants that need fire to propogate and/or thrive.
Sheepleschism is correct. Educate yourself.
en.wikipedia.org
#37 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

This level of stupidity causes headaches.

Pyrophytes can't make up for 21,000 square miles of scorched earth in Siberia or another potentially 25,000 square miles of it in Brazil. They are a small subset of the vegetation and do well with small, fast moving fires only. They also tend to take significant time to grow back.

Your comment is so stupid its literally akin to burning your house down in the winter because the fire means you won't have to pay for heat.

#39 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-08-21 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Obviously fires are a natural part of life.. but the size and places are abnormal.

While I doubt humans will become extinct.. I do believe we will have our available habital lands reduced dramatically..soon than later

#40 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-08-21 12:03 PM | Reply

Plant trees. Problem solved.

#41 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-08-21 12:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This level of stupidity causes headaches."

POSTED BY SYCOPHANT "

Well, that certainly proves your point. LOL

"Pyrophytes can't make up for 21,000 square miles of scorched earth in Siberia or another potentially 25,000 square miles of it in Brazil. They are a small subset of the vegetation and do well with small, fast moving fires only. They also tend to take significant time to grow back. "

I never said otherwise. Howevere they do exist throughout the 24,00 square miles of the Amazon.

"Your comment is so stupid its literally akin to burning your house down in the winter because the fire means you won't have to pay for heat."

Again, name calling. Wow. You are so smart. I never knew that all it took was caoling someone a childish name punctuated their point. I presume it works for me, too. So here goes: You are so stupid. There. I win. *snark off* Seriously -- grow up if you wish to be taken seriusly.

And it's not just the pyrophytes. Forest fires are a natural part of the ecosystem. Perhaps if you spent more time educating hyourself than calling people childish names, you would know these things. But here, let me help you:

How forest fires benefit plants

science.howstuffworks.com

The ecological importance of forest fires

greentumble.com

The natural role of fire

www.freshfromflorida.com

#42 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 12:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Pretend all you want that the number of forest fires we have had is normal but the planet won't pretend with you. Got a rake? Get busy.

#38 | POSTED BY DANNI "

You are right. Their numbers are not normal. Without man stopping the small natural fires, there would be many more, but they would be much smaller and less devestating. BUt man keeps ensuring there are no fires, so when there is one, it is a doozy. This is one of the reasons California has such devestating fires.

BTW, what does your link to climate change have to do with anything on this thread?

"California's wildfires are hardly "natural" " humans made them worse at every step"

www.vox.com

#43 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 12:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

The natural role of fire is not a new idea to any of us but the unnatural role of drought seems to be a new thought to Goatman. Drought is a big problem in may parts of the world which are experiencing huge levels of forest fires while he does what he does; i.e. present defensive articles for the fossil fuel industry. I suspect they own him. Kind of funny he disppeared for such a long time but then returned as the Fossil Fuel Warrior in so many threads defending that industry with old ideas which have been replaced by new information.

#44 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 12:36 PM | Reply

As I recall, he worked for an oil company before he left. Probably lives on an oil company pension today. Only stands to reason that they would recruit him to put out their propaganda vur realize it is propaganda. I cannot be convinced after reaing his posts the past few weeks that he does not have an agenda. A job. He's just not real good at it.

#45 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 12:40 PM | Reply

"Plant trees. Problem solved."

Only problem is that the fossil fuel fanatics will burn them down. They can't stand the idea of a world free from fossil fuels.

#46 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 12:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

No Goatman, that isn't the reason. The reason is drought whether you want to hear it or not.

consider Siberia. Are you really going to try and contend that drought isn't the root of their problems...and when we say "drought" what we are really saying is Global Climate Change.

#47 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 12:44 PM | Reply

--"Plant trees. Problem solved."

That's true. Scientists say so. But the ecofascists are terrified of a cost-effective solution that doesn't require an authoritarian State to regulate every aspect of our behavior.

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 12:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Danni,

Is everything you disagree with "propaganda"?

#49 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 12:50 PM | Reply

"No Goatman, that isn't the reason.

#47 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2019-08-21 12:44 PM "

It is, and I provided several links supporting that. You've not provided any to dispute them, or even any non-cited reason that my links are not accurate. But live in your world of denial if you wish. No skin off of my nose.

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 12:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Why don't you address his true statement rather than resorting to calling names like you always do? It would be a refereshing change to see you leave the schoolyard for a post or two.

www.britannica.com

#35 | Posted by goatman

Before I engage with you in another debate today, let me know before hand if you're just going to whine about people being mean to you and run away when you start losing.

#51 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 12:52 PM | Reply

"Before I engage with you in another debate today, let me know before hand if you're just going to whine about people being mean to you and run away when you start losing.

#51 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

No, I will notact like you. I never do. Nor will I stoop to juvenile name calling. You obviously will since that is your MO -- long proven, don't deny it -- and I do not wish to debate a schoolyard mentality.

Thanks, though.

#52 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 12:57 PM | Reply

"Danni,
Is everything you disagree with "propaganda"?

#49 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-08-21 12:50 PM |"

No, sometimes she calls it "trolling", especially when her feet are held to the fire and she has no valid rebuttal.

#53 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 12:59 PM | Reply

"Is everything you disagree with "propaganda"?"

Saying that drought isn't the reason for the huge increase in forest fires worldwide is propaganda Jeff. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. When the same people who try to argue that increased forest fires are normal and that wind energy is not cheaper today than natural gas energy....you sort of make a connection....don't you think???? Please! I'm so done with people who defend the destruction of our planet.

#54 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 01:00 PM | Reply

"That's true. Scientists say so. But the ecofascists are terrified of a cost-effective solution that doesn't require an authoritarian "

The truth about ecofascists. They were Fascists first then they realized they could use Ecology as a tool to further their fascism by attacking "races" whose birth rates are higher than white birth rates. Ecofascist is just another word for racist.

#55 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 01:03 PM | Reply

Do you have a credible source that shows that droughts are increasing beyond historical norms?

How about a source that shows the world is having a "huge increase in forest fires" and proves it with empirical data?

#56 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 01:03 PM | Reply

--Please! I'm so done with people who defend the destruction of our planet.

Does that mean you will stop posting hysterical, sky-is-falling propaganda to terrify people into supporting the New Green Scam, or New Green Socialism or whatever you're calling it today?

#57 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:06 PM | Reply

"Saying that drought isn't the reason for the huge increase in forest fires worldwide is propaganda

#54 | POSTED BY DANNI

DO you have a link from a credible source that drouht is to blame? And even if it is, droughts are natural. Where I live we have a thre or four year long drought every16 years or so. Droughts are talked about in ancient texts. Drouhts are as natural as flooding (which ironically people blame on global warming, too)

#58 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:07 PM | Reply

--The truth about ecofascists.

The truth is that they are eco-terrorists that go back to the days of Earth First!, animal rights terrorists, and the Unabomber, whose manifesto is a blue print for the latest eco-terrorist attacks.

#59 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No, I will notact like you. I never do. Nor will I stoop to juvenile name calling. You obviously will since that is your MO -- long proven, don't deny it -- and I do not wish to debate a schoolyard mentality.

Thanks, though.

#52 | Posted by goatman

No that's exactly what happened yesterday. You posted your wrong belief. I provided facts proving you were wrong. You cried about me being mean to you and fled from the thread.

#60 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 01:13 PM | Reply

--The truth about ecofascists.

The truth is that they are eco-terrorists that go back to the days of Earth First!, animal rights terrorists, and the Unabomber, whose manifesto is a blue print for the latest eco-terrorist attacks.

#59 | Posted by nullifidian a

I'll listen to your fears about eco fascists when I hear you also worrying about real fascists instead of supporting and defending them every day.

#61 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 01:14 PM | Reply

Do you have a credible source that shows that droughts are increasing beyond historical norms?

#56 | Posted by JeffJ

If you can load the drudgeretort, you can load google.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 01:16 PM | Reply

Danni made the claim, Speaks. It's incumbent on her to substantiate the claim when challenged. That's how it works. People frequently ask for links when someone makes a technical claim.

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 01:19 PM | Reply

--If you can load the drudgeretort, you can load google.

I'll cite you the next time someone asks me for a link. I would prefer people to find their own links rather than reflexively slaughter the source.

#64 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:21 PM | Reply

"No that's exactly what happened yesterday. You posted your wrong belief. I provided facts proving you were wrong. You cried about me being mean to you and fled from the thread.

#60 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-08-21 01:13 PM |"

I didn't realize that complaining about your childish name calling was crying. But it works for me. Now go find the trophy for your self-declared victory and have a good cuddle with it.

#65 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:26 PM | Reply

#61 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

You live in an alternate reality.
There is veritably nothing honest in anything you post.
When you aren't lying, you're gaslighting.

#66 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"If you can load the drudgeretort, you can load google.

#62 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

So can the person making the claim. It is he who bears the burden of proof. You didn't know this? Well, now you do.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

#67 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:29 PM | Reply

"How about a source that shows the world is having a "huge increase in forest fires" and proves it with empirical data?"

Have you listened to the reports during the biggest fires? Please, I'm not going to get your links when your nightly news already gave you the reports the same as me and everyone else.
Your tactic is to discount anything that disagrees with your POV and to demand links when it is common knowledge. I don't play those games any more.

#68 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 01:29 PM | Reply

"You live in an alternate reality.
There is veritably nothing honest in anything you post.
When you aren't lying, you're gaslighting."

Wow, perfect description of Trump and his most faithful followers.

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-08-21 01:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"So can the person making the claim. It is he who bears the burden of proof. You didn't know this? Well, now you do."

If it's reported on the nightly news and is common knowledge it is just a dishonest tactic to constantly demand links. We don't have to play your games.

#70 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 01:34 PM | Reply

Danni made the claim, Speaks. It's incumbent on her to substantiate the claim when challenged. That's how it works. People frequently ask for links when someone makes a technical claim.

#63 | Posted by JeffJ

It's on incumbent on the person making the outrageous claim to prove it, not the person making a widely accepted claim. I dont have to provide a link proving that water is wet, but you damn sure better have a credible link if you're going to say it's not.

#71 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 01:38 PM | Reply

--If it's reported on the nightly news

Yes, the media reports summer wild fires which happen in summer. So what?

#72 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:39 PM | Reply

You live in an alternate reality.
There is veritably nothing honest in anything you post.
When you aren't lying, you're gaslighting.

#66 | Posted by nullifidian

I love being lectured by trump supporters about lying, gaslighting, and alternate realities.

Accuse your opponent of your own crimes.

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 01:40 PM | Reply

"If it's reported on the nightly news and is common knowledge it is just a dishonest tactic to constantly demand links. We don't have to play your games.

#70 | POSTED BY DANNI "

I looked up burden of proof and nowhere did I find that the person making the claim is exempt from it if his claim in on the nightly news.

Besides, not all of us watch TV. I'm one of them

#74 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's a necessary part of natures cleansing cycle.

Why do you hate nature?

#4 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

He spoke the truth. Forest fires are indeed a part of the natural cycle.

#35 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Deforestation isn't natural. You two really think the trees are cutting and burning themselves down? You don't realize it's people who cause deforestation?

#75 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2019-08-21 01:42 PM | Reply

"I looked up burden of proof and nowhere did I find that the person making the claim is exempt from it if his claim in on the nightly news."

I looked up pompous ass and found Goatman. I don't have any need to indulge your arguments, I won't plonk you but I will ignore you. You are a constant annoyance here, I didn't miss you when your were gone and I won't be saddened when you leave.

#76 | Posted by danni at 2019-08-21 01:45 PM | Reply

"It's on incumbent on the person making the outrageous claim to prove it, not the person making a widely accepted claim. I dont have to provide a link proving that water is wet, but you damn sure better have a credible link if you're going to say it's not.

#71 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY"

You are wrong again. Common claims like your exampmle "water is west" aver very easy to prove. Show me one description of burden of proof that says widely accepted claims are exempt from this rule. You can't, beasuse you are wrong.

#77 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:45 PM | Reply

"Deforestation isn't natural. You two really think the trees are cutting and burning themselves down? You don't realize it's people who cause deforestation?

#75 | POSTED BY DEREK_WILDSTAR"

In the case of naturally started fires (e.g. a lightning strike) they are. Of course if man is doing it, it's not natural.

#78 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:47 PM | Reply

--You don't realize it's people who cause deforestation?

Yeah I've seen foothills bulldozed for subdivisions in southern california, and then when the regular late season summer wildfires start, there is more property damage. And idiots scream "global warming!" rather than "reckless development!"

#79 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I looked up pompous ass and found Goatman. I don't have any need to indulge your arguments, I won't plonk you but I will ignore you. You are a constant annoyance here, I didn't miss you when your were gone and I won't be saddened when you leave.

#76 | POSTED BY DANNI "

Cool. YThen you should have no problem finding something to back up your claim.

BTW, although you didn't use the word Troll, the spirit of my post 53 was proven nonetheless.

ALso, I have no problem if you do decide to plonk me. Why are people here so full of themselves that they think they are punishing or hurting someone by plonking thim? If people don't want to read my posts, I'm cool with that. Americanunity and Corky both have plonked me several times each, and each time they grandstand and shout out that they are. I dunno what it is.

#80 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:55 PM | Reply

--Americanunity and Corky both have plonked me several times each,

Yeah, Corkus has plonked me several times but, unfortunately, it never lasts for more than a day.

#81 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 01:58 PM | Reply

You are wrong again. Common claims like your exampmle "water is west" aver very easy to prove. Show me one description of burden of proof that says widely accepted claims are exempt from this rule. You can't, beasuse you are wrong.

#77 | Posted by goatman

Goatman debate technique #2 - derail the debate into intricate discussions of technicalities and semantics and then claim victory when no one follows you into that hole.

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 02:02 PM | Reply

And idiots scream "global warming!" rather than "reckless development!"

#79 | Posted by nullifidian

Hey dumdum - does hotter weather cause drier vegetation or not?

Proving reckless development doesn't DISPROVE climate change making fires worse.

#83 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-08-21 02:03 PM | Reply

"Hey dumdum -

#83 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

Profound. And proving my point for the umpteenth time.

#84 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 02:05 PM | Reply

Look at all the bulldozers deforesting this thread and burning it down with hysteria.

Someone needs to get the matches and gasoline away from Danni and Speaks.

#85 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-08-21 02:08 PM | Reply

If it's reported on the nightly news and is common knowledge it is just a dishonest tactic to constantly demand links. We don't have to play your games.

#70 | POSTED BY DANNI

Apparently, it's not common knowledge, hence my questions.

It's common knowledge that drought's cause vegetation to dry out which makes it more susceptible to catch fire. A first grader understands that.

So, I'll reproduce my question:

Do you have a credible source that shows that droughts are increasing beyond historical norms?

#56 | Posted by JeffJ


It's not a trick question. I haven't seen any or read anything about extreme droughts beyond historical norms, particularly in the Southern hemisphere where this is taking place.

Can you substantiate your claim or not?

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-21 02:13 PM | Reply

--Proving reckless development doesn't DISPROVE climate change making fires worse.

And you can't prove that global warming has anything to do with it, only that there is more property damage and personal injury due to the fact that there is more property and people in the path of seasonal fires.

#87 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 02:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Someone willing to explain how me raising my thermostat to 82 at night is going to prevent Brazil's forests from burning when China dumps 30X as much plastic into the environment every day than the US, when Canada has higher per capita fossil fuel CO2 emissions, and when China has quintupled its fossil CO2 output in the last 25 years?

#88 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-08-21 02:19 PM | Reply

#88 SSHH. You might make someone feel guilty about enabling the country from wwom they buy their Apple products and Nikes.

Hmm. No on second thought, those hypocrites have proven they don't care.

#89 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 02:23 PM | Reply

--Someone willing to explain how me raising my thermostat to 82

Recommendations from federal bureaucrats made in air-conditioned offices who go home to their air-conditioned homes. They can f--- off.

#90 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 02:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Plant trees. Problem solved.

POSTED BY LEE_THE_AGENT AT 2019-08-21 12:07 PM | REPLY

FDR Planted 200 million trees to combat the effects of The Dust Bowl and it worked swimmingly. We could do it again easily.

#91 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-08-21 02:56 PM | Reply

The Amazon has been burning for weeks

Must be a river in Cleveland. I never have seen a river burn but I am told they do.

#92 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-08-21 02:58 PM | Reply

The Amazon has been burning for weeks

Must be a river in Cleveland. I never have seen a river burn but I am told they do.
#92 | POSTED BY SNIPER

I'm surprised you didn't say, "Screw you Jeff Bezos!"

#93 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-21 03:16 PM | Reply

Someone willing to explain how me raising my thermostat to 82 at night is going to prevent Brazil's forests from burning...

#88 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

Uh, who the heck is telling you that? It makes no sense.

#94 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2019-08-21 04:00 PM | Reply

Americanunity and Corky both have plonked me several times each, and each time they grandstand and shout out that they are. I dunno what it is.

Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:55 PM

Saw your comment before I logged in.

You've been plonked twice now, not several times. I thought I'd give you a second chance but you resort to the same old tired games. Rather than have to scroll past your endless posts, where you parse and engage in semantics, obfuscation, and nitpicking, it's just easier to have you on 'ignore.'

"Grandstanding?" At 3 am when you and I were the only people on here?

Get a life, dude.

#95 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-21 04:07 PM | Reply

--At 3 am when you and I were the only people on here?
Get a life, dude.
#95 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

You're posting at 3 am and you are telling *other* people to get a life?

lol

#96 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-21 04:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You've been plonked twice now, not several times.

#95 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

Twice post-hiatus, many more times pre-hiatus.

"I thought I'd give you a second chance..."

You're too kind. And arrogant. WTF makes you think I give a ---- if you read my posts or not?

#97 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 04:21 PM | Reply

Of course if man is doing it, it's not natural. - #78 | Posted by goatman at 2019-08-21 01:47 PM

Not to break the flow of the discussion too much, but at what point did humanity lose its place as a part of nature? If a beaver makes a dam it is natural, but if a man makes a dam it is not? How are we making use of the tools that evolution provided us any different than other animals making use of tools that evolution provided them?

The definition includes 'state of nature untouched by the influences of civilization and society', but that would mean that most primates aren't natural - they certainly have a society. Lots of animals exist in their own society, does that mean that vegetation destroyed by zebras is unnatural?

Not really making a point with all this, just some general questioning.

#98 | Posted by avigdore at 2019-08-22 07:55 AM | Reply

How about a source that shows the world is having a "huge increase in forest fires" and proves it with empirical data?
#56 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-08-21 01:03 PM

National Interagency Fire Center.

Data prior to 1983 is not verifyable so should not be used to compare to current data

1983 18,229 fires burned 1,323,666 acres
2018 58,083 fires burned 8,767,492 acres

www.nifc.gov

Is a 300% increase huge enough?

#99 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-22 09:50 AM | Reply

Thanks for the link, Hatter.

Let's analyze it more than just first (1983) and last (2018) years. Here is the measurement by year within this timeframe:

Year Fires Acres
2018 58,083 8,767,492
2017 71,499 10,026,086
2016 67,743 5,509,995
2015 68,151 10,125,149
2014 63,312 3,595,613
2013 47,579 4,319,546
2012 67,774 9,326,238
2011 74,126 8,711,367
2010 71,971 3,422,724
2009 78,792 5,921,786
2008 78,979 5,292,468
2007 85,705 9,328,045
2006 96,385 9,873,745
2005 66,753 8,689,389
2004 65,461 *8,097,880
2003 63,629 3,960,842
2002 73,457 7,184,712
2001 84,079 3,570,911
2000 92,250 7,393,493
1999 92,487 5,626,093
1998 81,043 1,329,704
1997 66,196 2,856,959
1996 96,363 6,065,998
1995 82,234 1,840,546
1994 79,107 4,073,579
1993 58,810 1,797,574
1992 87,394 2,069,929
1991 75,754 2,953,578
1990 66,481 4,621,621
1989 48,949 1,827,310
1988 72,750 5,009,290
1987 71,300 2,447,296
1986 85,907 2,719,162
1985 82,591 2,896,147
1984 20,493 1,148,409
1983 18,229 1,323,666

There definitely does seem to be a general increase. Prior to 1983-2018 we see some much bigger numbers but the reliability of those numbers is in question.

#100 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-22 10:05 AM | Reply

See how that works, Danni?

You made a claim and I asked for substantiation. You declined but Hatter stepped up and provided what I asked you for.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-08-22 10:07 AM | Reply

CNN: Some of the most-shared images of the Amazon rainforest fires are old or are not of the Amazon.
www.cnn.com

#102 | Posted by Vaquero at 2019-08-22 02:07 PM | Reply

One word: Entropy.
Without the world acting in concert,
it will all spiral out of control.

#103 | Posted by earthmuse at 2019-08-22 03:29 PM | Reply

Doesn't look like Democrats actually believe there is a "climate emergency."

thehill.com

#104 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-22 04:43 PM | Reply

"DNC votes down climate-focused debate"

Fine with me. Talk about a ratings bummer!

"There are a number of us who want to have a standalone debate on the issue of climate. It's more than an issue. We need a climate crisis response blueprint," Pelosi previously told The Hill.

I agree with Pelosi.
I don't think a canned talking points "debate" is a good way to come up with that policy. Those policies.

Any Democrat will be better than any Republican on this issue, and every voter who isn't Deplorable knows this.

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-22 04:47 PM | Reply

The Amazon supplies 20% of the Earth's oxygen. Clear cutting/burning it for farmland affects everyone.

#106 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-08-22 04:48 PM | Reply

Looks like the climatistas are ticked off.

Naomi Klein
""
@NaomiAKlein

This matters. A @DNC that won't bend the rules of its debate playbook in order to treat climate change like an emergency will not support policy that is transformative enough to actually stop the emergency. Luckily they aren't the only ones with a vote..

#107 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-22 04:48 PM | Reply

Not to break the flow of the discussion too much, but at what point did humanity lose its place as a part of nature?

When we discovered how to utilize fire.

When we discovered how to harness electricity.

When we made advancements in medical sciences, medical technologies.

When we separated ourselves from survival of the fittest.

We are as far removed from nature as a species can get.

#108 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-08-22 04:53 PM | Reply

Doesn't look like Democrats actually believe there is a "climate emergency."
thehill.com
#104 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Why? Because they won't hold a climate debate?

What's the point? Democrats already are pushing climate initiatives. Republicans won't listen to the debate and don't seem to care.

#109 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-08-22 04:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Not to break the flow of the discussion too much, but at what point did humanity lose its place as a part of nature?"

It didn't.
Natural is simply a convenient way to say "the opposite of man-made."

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-22 05:17 PM | Reply

"We are as far removed from nature as a species can get."

Not removed enough.
We're constantly making other species go extinct, probably for as long as we've been around, now at an industrial scale.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-08-22 05:21 PM | Reply

"At a certain point you've made enough money." "You didn't build that." "There's only so big a house you can have." It turns out, though, that the Obamas haven't yet reached those limits. Barack and Michelle have bought a $14.85 million estate on Martha's Vineyard from the owner of the Boston Celtics. This is not, of course, their only home, but most of us would find it more than adequate"

Obama must think the oceans have stopped rising, or will skip Martha's Vineyard.

#112 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-08-23 07:52 AM | Reply

Bolsonaro, who has told people, supposedly ironically, to call him "Captain Chainsaw," campaigned on the theory that his country's economic development had been limited by the world's affection for the Amazon, and he made clear that those who wanted to cut it down had little to fear from his administration. He even fired the head of the federal agency tasked with monitoring by satellite the extent of deforestation, when he found that deforestation was increasing.

#113 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-08-23 09:45 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2019 World Readable

Drudge Retort