Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, September 01, 2019

Pinchaloaf: I started paying close attention to politics in early 2004 when I was retiring from the USAF and could hardly contain myself in wanting to vote against Bush and the disastrous Iraq War. It always amazed me how Democrats would get pummeled time after time on military/veterans oriented issues, which of course happened again in 2004 with John Kerry being swiftboated, and people seemingly siding with draft dodgers Bush and Cheney. And above all that, Republicans can be so TRANSPARENTLY TERRIBLE on EVERYTHING yet Democrats can't even beat these douchebags on a sustained and consistent basis -- from Bedtime to Bonzo (Reagan), to George W. Numbnuts (Bush), to Donald Freaking Trump (100% venal scuzzball). Why?

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It's all been explained too me through the years by people like ex-Republican Mike Lofgren (big picture), conservative Andrew Bacevich (war), journalists Matt Taibbi and Hedrick Smith (media), historian Joseph J. Ellis (Founding Fathers), doctors Kenneth W. Kizer and David B. Nash (on the complicated healthcare issue), and by politicians like Dwight D. Eisenhower (hindsight) and Bernie Sanders (present day) ...

I will now add Ralph Nader to that list.

And, remember my reason for following politics closely in 2004 in the first place?

Well, in 2006, with the disastrous Iraq War raging with no end in sight, Democrats won the midterms and fully controlled Congress, which is a co-equal branch of government with the President/Executive branch -- but Democrats still couldn't bring themselves to end the Iraq War.

Again, why?

Because whether it's war (or any issue) Democrats simply don't stand for much of anything.

In George Carlin's last interview, he channeled Albert Einstein's famous insanity quote ...

I think with anything you do over a long period of time, you should be getting better at it.

-- George Carlin

If one follows politics closely, you should be growing intellectually and have a base-level of knowledge and facts that you can draw from as a default to know and understand as to what's going on.

But if you're not growing, you're not learning, and everything stays the same since the 1970's -- it's no wonder that America is in decline.

C'mon Democrats, for once stand for something, and, beat Trump in 2020.

Comments

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Of course I knew of Nader this whole time, but I never really listened super closely to what he was saying (the 2000 election I was overseas, and in 2004 I was busy retiring from the USAF) -- the economic and social problems Nader spelled out in the 1960's and 70's (and his whole career) are the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS America faces today.

An Unreasonable Man (2006) Ralph Nader documentary
www.youtube.com
[2:02:21]

Again, if Democrats can't beat Trump a second time, I'll be done with Democrats, period. And if that happens, a Trump second term, it'll be because Democrats, yet again, don't really stand for anything -- which by the way will happily be enabled by the prestige media.

And speaking of the media, do people know and understand that voices that ask the basic questions and challenge the prestige media are being marginalized?

Someone like Matt Taibbi no longer get invited on MSNBC, or even Bill Maher's 'Real Time'.

Jimmy Dore's progressive voice on you-tube is being de-monitized.

Chris Hedges, who isn't afraid to explain America's problems on in the most rawest visceral way, was pushed out of the New York Times to eventually find himself Russia Today (RT) where he can be easily dismissed by both the prestige media and non-critical-thinking Americans.

What ever happened to the 1st Amendment?

It doesn't take a whole lot of intellect to see that the free speech is being perverted and tamped down by those with all the nation's money.

Question: What's the Golden Rule?
Answer: Those with the Gold make the Rules.

Free speech is slowly going away -- sad, pathetic, outrageous, infuriating.

#1 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-01 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--It doesn't take a whole lot of intellect to see that the free speech is being perverted and tamped down by those with all the nation's money.

Free speech is under assault by the far Left: SJWs, marxists, maoists, anarchists, feminutties, the "alphabet people," gender nutters, trotskyites, climate cultists, eco-terrorists, etc. And the cancer has spread to high-tech, hollywood, woke corporations, the MSM-DNC, etc.

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-01 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Nadar and Bernie have been correct about many things, but so was Ross Perot.

The Dems need to lose one more time. then that mushy backbone and brain stem can be removed to ensure it's dead.

#3 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-01 01:49 PM | Reply

Jimmy Dore is a conspiracy theorist, if that is your idea of a "progressive voice" ....

Someone like Matt Taibbi no longer get invited on MSNBC,

When he put RachelMaddow on the cover of "Hate Inc." ... what did he expect?

#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-01 01:55 PM | Reply

Another reason the Democratic Party is failing is because of people, like Nulli Sherp and Andre, who use lies, deception, and half truths to attack the Democratic Party for not being pure and perfect enough for them. While giving a pass to the Republican Party which, by and large, is worse than the democrats on every measure.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-01 02:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

--When he put RachelMaddow on the cover of "Hate Inc." ... what did he expect?

I bet she flipped out when she saw that cover. Talk about in-your-face. Not that that pathological liar didn't deserve it.

#6 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-01 02:08 PM | Reply

That being said.

I believe Trump will win in 2020.

We'll see what the democrats do over the next year.

But currently, as Dave Chappelle said, "you got trump grabbing P***y on the right, yet joe Biden can't even smell hair without the Democratic Party freaking out.

#7 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-01 02:09 PM | Reply

RachelMaddow on the cover of "Hate Inc." ... what did he expect?

I bet she flipped out when she saw that cover. Talk about in-your-face. Not that that pathological liar didn't deserve it.
#6 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

If Rachel Maddow is a "pathological liar", what adjective would you use to describe the never ending stream of lies that constantly pour out of Donnie's pie hole?

#8 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-01 02:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Jimmy Dore is a conspiracy theorist, if that is your idea of a "progressive voice" ....

"Someone like Matt Taibbi no longer get invited on MSNBC,"

When he put Rachel Maddow on the cover of "Hate Inc." ... what did he expect?

#4 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Jimmy Dore is not a conspiracy theorist. Case in point, he critiques the media, hard, like speaking out AGAINST Russiagate/Mueller from almost the beginning. That makes him, at least on that issue, aligned with you. If you can't bring yourself to admit that then that's on you.

As for Taibbi and Maddow, what's your point, that only liberals like her use the media to push a hateful POV? With Maddow, by the way, I think it's just her decision in selling out her integrity for the mega-bucks.

Also, in Taibbi's 'Hate Inc' context of the media manufacturing consent for the corporate state, MSNBC ALSO yanked anti-war Phil Donahue of the air before the 2003 Iraq invasion along with yanking pro-union/pro-worker Ed Schultz off the air right as Bernie Sanders started his 2016-run.

So with Taibbi why can't you acknowledge that Sean Hannity (representing right-wing media) is also on the cover of his book, and that Taibbi is indicting the established media (both left/right) as a whole that encourages nonsensical arguments that you're doing right now.

And if you want to try and say that I'm also part of this problem, well, I point to as my guide (as just one example) Eisenhower's 91% tax rate and Bernie's sustained popularity.

You're not offending me, but your idiocy is part of the problem Taibbi is pointing out -- no offense.

#9 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-01 03:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"So with Taibbi why can't you acknowledge that Sean Hannity (representing right-wing media) is also on the cover of his book"

See no evil from the riiiiight.
Hear no evil from the riiiiight.
Speak no evil from the riiiiight.

See only evil from the liberal loony left.
Hear only evil from the liberal loony left.
Speak only evil from the liberal loony left.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-01 03:38 PM | Reply

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See no evil from the riiiiight.
Hear no evil from the riiiiight.
Speak no evil from the riiiiight.

See only evil from the liberal loony left.
Hear only evil from the liberal loony left.
Speak only evil from the liberal loony left.

#10 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I do see the preponderance of the problem with being with the right-wing media because they both did it first and perfected the hate-genre first, with right-wing radio (late 1980's/early 90's with Limbaugh, etc.) and Fox News (est. 1996, cable).

That said, I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch any programming on MSNBC, maybe late 2015(?).

With print media, it should bother everyone that the NYT and WaPo suffer with both credibility problems (NYT editor admitting error w/Russiagate and WaPo owned by zillionaire Bezos) and lazy low quality journalism (pretty much everything) ...

Getting back to traditional cable news, if it weren't following MLB baseball closely, I'd cut the cord with Direct TV altogether -- something I might just end up doing soon anyway ~

#11 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-01 04:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"With print media, it should bother everyone that the NYT and WaPo suffer with both credibility problems"

NYTimes printed lied that supported our entry into both Iraq wars.

They're still more credible than most sources out there.

If the owner of the company being a billionaire is a credibility problem, then capitalism has a credibility problem, and your blame is misplaced.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-01 05:32 PM | Reply

NY Times printed lied that supported our entry into both Iraq wars.

They're still more credible than most sources out there.

If the owner of the company being a billionaire is a credibility problem, then capitalism has a credibility problem ...

#12 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I agree with everything you're saying -- and I'm a NYT and WaPo subscriber.

#13 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-01 05:45 PM | Reply

Trump lost by millions the last time.

If the will of the people is not respected this time may God help those who vote Republican because no one else will.

The last act of America before there's a civil war will be to nuke Moscow.

#14 | Posted by Tor at 2019-09-01 06:49 PM | Reply

Last chance for what?

These predictions of the demise of political parties almost always turn out to be wrong. People wrote off Republicans after Nixon and Ford, and then after a 4 year break they ruled the executive branch for 12 years.

#15 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-01 07:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#14- what are you talking about? You're sounding like one of those people who write kooky manifestos.

#16 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-01 07:30 PM | Reply

Rcade -

Thanks for the Front Page pimpage on your MIGHTY Drudge Retort!

I've been posting on your website since 12/05/2009, and it's been a long, screamingly loud journey ~

Humble opinion on my part -- understanding why things are the way they are in the world is an important first step to lifelong learning, even if it takes awhile to get there with that first step -- and I certainly don't know everything, far from it, but if I can figure out a few things then anyone can.

Now I'm going to be a nice freaking guy while explaining to Sentinel why civic involvement is everyone's #1 job.

#17 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-01 08:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Last chance for what?

These predictions of the demise of political parties almost always turn out to be wrong. People wrote off Republicans after Nixon and Ford, and then after a 4 year break they ruled the executive branch for 12 years.

#15 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

Last chance for me giving Democrats my vote.

What you're missing is that previous elections that you're referencing were mostly a left/Democrat/liberal vs right/Republican/conservative situations.

That's not the case anymore, and what's changed is wealth inequality that's roiling America's political process ... in 2016 and now America is facing a down/poor/have-nots vs up/rich/have-everything class warfare situation.

America is the richest country ever, yet half the country is poor -- this is where the rubber meets the road.

In 2016, I volunteered for Bernie while knocking on hundreds of doors and making hundreds of phones calls -- I even spent a few bucks of my own money and hosted events in my apartment and in my community along with paid Bernie staff and other volunteers sleeping on my couch.

People need to get involved, regardless of the candidate they choose to support, just get involved. I understand that for many just getting to the voting booth on election day can be a huge effort out of one's immediate control, but if anyone admits to following politics closely then, hey, get out there.

If Democrats don't defeat Trump in 2020, I'll still be involved. And if Ralph Nader is right about a possible 3rd party being formed by an enlightened billionaire (Nick Hanauer?) who is determined to not let America devolve into an outright police state or having desperate people rioting in the streets -- well then, we'll see.

#18 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-01 08:32 PM | Reply

#17 Don't swallow it all at once.

#19 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-01 08:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- Why?

Because the Republicans sold out to the very wealthy under Reagan... according to Reagan's own Budget Directors as interviewed below. (Divisive social issues were claimed by the GOP to gain proxy voters for their wealthy donors, and votes were sold to the highest bidders.)

"The intransigence over the debt ceiling enraged Republican stalwarts. George Voinovich, the former GOP senator from Ohio, likens his party's new guard to arsonists whose attitude is: "We're going to get what we want or the country can go to hell."

Even an architect of the Bush tax cuts, economist Glenn Hubbard, tells Rolling Stone that there should have been a "revenue contribution" to the debt-ceiling deal, "structured to fall mainly on the well-to-do."

Instead, the GOP strong-armed America into sacrificing $1 trillion in vital government services " including education, health care and defense " all to safeguard tax breaks for oil companies, yacht owners and hedge-fund managers.

The party's leaders were triumphant: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell even bragged that America's creditworthiness had been a "hostage that's worth ransoming."

It's the kind of thinking that only money can buy. "It's a vicious circle," says Stiglitz. "The rich are using their money to secure tax provisions to let them get richer still. Rather than investing in new technology or R&D, the rich get a better return by investing in Washington."

"That only changed in the late 1970s, when high inflation drove up wages and pushed the middle class into higher tax brackets. Harnessing the widespread anger, Reagan put it to work on behalf of the rich.

In a move that GOP Majority Leader Howard Baker called a "riverboat gamble," Reagan sold the country on an "across-the-board" tax cut that brought the top rate down to 50 percent.

According to supply-side economists, the wealthy would use their tax break to spur investment, and the economy would boom. And if it didn't " well, to Reagan's cadre of small-government conservatives, the resulting red ink could be a win-win.

"We started talking about just cutting taxes and saying, Screw the deficit,'" Bartlett recalls. "We had this idea that if you lowered revenues, the concern about the deficit would be channeled into spending cuts."

It was the birth of what is now known as "Starve the Beast" " a conscious strategy by conservatives to force cuts in federal spending by bankrupting the country.

As conceived by the right-wing intellectual Irving Kristol in 1980, the plan called for Republicans to create a "fiscal problem" by slashing taxes " and then foist the pain of reimposing fiscal discipline onto future Democratic administrations who, in Kristol's words, would be forced to "tidy up afterward."

www.rollingstone.com

Kinda like some supposed classical liberals here have sold out to Trump. You know, in exchange for keeping brown kids in cages and offa their lawn.

#20 | Posted by Corky at 2019-09-01 09:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

It really is and you don't even know. Liz, are you hearing us?

No more Lucy and Charlie brown and NO MORE WHITE PEOPLE GASLIGHTING US FOR OUR VOTE AS IN THE LAST 100 YEARS.

#21 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-09-01 10:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#17 Don't swallow it all at once.

#19 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

Where else can you post what you want?

I'm guessing you're all inked up, maybe you should tattoo the word "gratitude" on your forehead.

How many posters here thru the years have changed their minds and said so out loud with a post?

You've gone on and on about how bad The Clintons, the DNC, Obama, and Democrats are, and here I am finally agreeing with you -- do you mean what you post or are you just a troll?

#22 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 08:51 AM | Reply

No, pinchaloaf, it will not the be Democrats fault if Trump wins in 2020. That is nonsense. We are doing everything we can to prevent that and our candidates stand for important issues. It will just be Trump taking advantage of the resentment among white men and women about non-whites demanding a place in our society. This is an an important social change in our country which eventually will be lost by the white society but we don't know exactly how long they will be able to cling to power. Pretending this is the fault of the Democrats for us trying to include everyone in our party is idiotic. I especially notice your mentions of Ralph Nader, a man whose ego was more important than his nation. He was yesterday'd Jill Stein. Neither offered anything of real value but did divert votes from Democrats which would have enabled us to win elections, third party candidates are just spoilers in a "winner takes all" system like ours.
And BTW Pinchaloaf, no matter what happens in 2020, us Democrats will carry on and eventually win with you or without you.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-02 08:52 AM | Reply

==How many posters here thru the years have changed their minds and said so out loud with a post?

It's amazing that you keyboard commandos think you're changing minds or votes by posting on the retort. Maybe people wouldn't get so angry if they realized nothing they say here is important. I just shake my head when I see you people beat an issue to death with a posting marathon, as if someone could "win."

#24 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-02 09:11 AM | Reply

Kinda like some supposed classical liberals here have sold out to Trump. You know, in exchange for keeping brown kids in cages and offa their lawn.

#20 | POSTED BY CORKY

I agree, your RS link mirrors what Hedrick Smith talks about.

But I can only agree up to a certain point.

When I think of a Trump voter, I think of my own income demographic ($50K to $100K), and this demographic handed Trump the presidency. Why did this demographic vote for Trump, an obvious douchebag?

Because they're pissed off due to getting squeezed economically, and they've have been getting squeezed now for a long time ... but also because they're starting to reject what they're being told by both GOP/Dem establishment types AND are rejecting what the traditional prestige media tells them.

Democrats could turn all this around but I don't think they want to, and I'm also not sure Democrats are even capable of doing it.

Democrats want to focus on racism and Trump's obvious flaws, which are important and deserve attention, but are still subordinate to the symptoms of what's going on in American -- and that's wealth inequality.

If Democrats want to start winning elections again, they need to address wealth inequality, and they need to do it in a real and visceral way, and not in a academic and lecturing way -- but that's just a start.

The Democratic Party also must address what's most important to them. Is it raising money from their own wealthy donors and answering to their donors, or is it representing people like me and answering to people like me?

I'm going to vote for the Democrat, but 2020 will be the last time I'm giving the Democrats the benefit of the doubt with my vote.

#25 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 09:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It will just be Trump taking advantage of the resentment among white men and women about non-whites demanding a place in our society. This is an an important social change in our country which eventually will be lost by the white society but we don't know exactly how long they will be able to cling to power. Pretending this is the fault of the Democrats for us trying to include everyone in our party is idiotic.
#23 | POSTED BY DANNI

Perfect example of the left's conceit. They think they are smart and everybody else is stupid.

#26 | Posted by Ray at 2019-09-02 10:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It's amazing that you keyboard commandos think you're changing minds or votes by posting on the retort. Maybe people wouldn't get so angry if they realized nothing they say here is important. I just shake my head when I see you people beat an issue to death with a posting marathon, as if someone could "win."

#24 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Okay, follow closely ...

I agree.

However, what I did as a volunteer for the Bernie Sanders 2016 presidential run REALLY HAPPENED. Me, as a volunteer (I was a Precinct Captain, sounds pretentious, eh?) ... I helped win my precinct, country, and for all practical purposes helped win my state for Bernie.

But I'm just a nobody, and in America that would change if I had a billion dollars to hire people to advocate for things that I think are important -- I know you understand all this.

Don't interpret me posting on this message board as me "doing something". You can, but I don't care if you do.

I do enjoy learning, and I do enjoy this website -- simple stuff ~

Here you go ...

Ralph Nader: How You Can Change America, Pt.1
www.youtube.com
[2:31:51]

Ralph Nader: How You Can Change America, Pt.2
www.youtube.com
[1:04:40]

Ralph Nader: How You Can Change America, Pt.3
www.youtube.com
[1:40:49]

Have fun!

#27 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 10:27 AM | Reply

"Okay, follow closely ...

I agree."

That's funny. You prove my point by posting 5 hours of Ralph Nader, as if anyone except a Nader cultist is going to watch a minute.

Seen this a million times with True Believers.

"If you would only watch this one video or read this article, you would convert to my religion."

If Hell actually exists, I imagine it's being forced to watch Nader and Hedrick Smith for eternity.

#28 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-02 10:39 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

- if they realized nothing they say here is important

Close, but no cigar. Nothing you say here is important, because you are only ever trolling.

Other people actually express their thoughts and also have an open mind to accept the value of others who do the same.

In example, they might have an actual argument to what I said, not just another bloviation.

#29 | Posted by Corky at 2019-09-02 10:48 AM | Reply

If Hell actually exists, I imagine it's being forced to watch Nader and Hedrick Smith for eternity. - Nulli

Or 5 hours, which ever comes first.

#30 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-02 10:49 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Close, but no cigar.
~corky

-Clinton reference?

#31 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-02 10:51 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

One thing is certain: Nothing CorknPaste says is important.

#32 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-02 10:51 AM | Reply

No, pinchaloaf, it will not the be Democrats fault if Trump wins in 2020. That is nonsense. We are doing everything we can to prevent that and our candidates stand for important issues. It will just be Trump taking advantage of the resentment among white men and women about non-whites demanding a place in our society.

This is an an important social change in our country which eventually will be lost by the white society but we don't know exactly how long they will be able to cling to power.

Pretending this is the fault of the Democrats for us trying to include everyone in our party is idiotic.

I especially notice your mentions of Ralph Nader, a man whose ego was more important than his nation. He was yesterday'd Jill Stein. Neither offered anything of real value but did divert votes from Democrats which would have enabled us to win elections, third party candidates are just spoilers in a "winner takes all" system like ours.

And BTW Pinchaloaf, no matter what happens in 2020, us Democrats will carry on and eventually win with you or without you.

#23 | POSTED BY DANN

Nader is relevant because his message hasn't changed, just like Bernie's.

Bernie and Nader both have egos the size of planet Jupiter, just like all public people. I think that that's okay.

Remember Republican Phil Gramm? I do. He helped fund a soft-core porn movie titled 'Truck Stop Women' starring Claudia Jennings ... en.wikipedia.org

But I remembered Phil Gramm FIRST from my previous life in the military, back in the 1980's with the Gramm-Rudman Act ... en.wikipedia.org

What went thru Gramm's head when he decided to tun for president in 1996? Was it a boilerplate slogan of "Porn For Everyone"? This guy thought he was worthy of being president. If he lived longer and funded more soft-core ----- he could have given the morally corrupt Trump a real challenge.

We agree that Trump is a demagogue. He's corrupt, racist garbage -- and the GOP who backs up Trump is just like Trump.

But Democrats STILL have to decide who they represent.

Do they represent their wealthy donors and identity politics, or do they represent voters like me? If people like me were represented America's racism problem would be tamped down and marginalized in the same way the Birchers were driven underground back in the day.

Again, I'm voting for the Democrat in 2020, but this is the last time.

I'll let Tulsi Gabbard, who's being cheated by the DNC, expound on the reasons why it's important to vote for the Democrat in 2020 ...

Tulsi Gabbard: There's no circumstance where I won't support Democratic nominee
www.youtube.com
[11:05]

#33 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 11:38 AM | Reply

The narcissistic nihilist nullifidian says that nothing is important? Imagine that.

Other than himself, of course.

And, most obviously, still no comment on Reagan's own Budget Dirs' account of how Republicans became the party of the 1 percent.

You know, the Party of Trump he touts here daily as being the better party for America.... or for his lawn, at least.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2019-09-02 11:41 AM | Reply

That's funny. You prove my point by posting 5 hours of Ralph Nader, as if anyone except a Nader cultist is going to watch a minute.
Seen this a million times with True Believers.

"If you would only watch this one video or read this article, you would convert to my religion."

If Hell actually exists, I imagine it's being forced to watch Nader and Hedrick Smith for eternity.

#28 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

I'll gladly watch Nader and Hedrick Smith for an eternity.

Your hell is watching Phil Gramm's 'Truck Stop Women' for an eternity.

#35 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 11:54 AM | Reply

--he narcissistic nihilist nullifidian

A modern Leftist calling someone else a "Nihilist." lol

That's comedy gold.

#36 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-02 11:56 AM | Reply

#36

Whiny little nihilist B had to follow me over to the Dorian thread to whine even more.

How pathetic.

And still, no comment on what I said on topic here, just more bloviation from this troll.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2019-09-02 11:59 AM | Reply

--'Truck Stop Women'

Sounds infinitely better than watching your tired old leftist dinosaurs drone on.

#38 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-02 12:00 PM | Reply

- tired old leftist dinosaurs

Obviously in your case devolve into tired old Trump ------- rwingers.

#39 | Posted by Corky at 2019-09-02 12:02 PM | Reply

Nader is relevant because his message hasn't changed, just like Bernie's.

PinchALoaf, Bernie has changed his message, when his message didn't fit the Progressives views...

Bernie Sanders Again Links Low Wages With Immigration (illegal)

The question is whether there should be "a completely open border, so that anybody can come into the United States of America," the senator said. "If that were to happen, which I strongly disagree with, there is no question in my mind that that would substantially lower wages in this country."
www.nytimes.com

Today he extends government programs to illegal immigrants ..

Sorry Charlie, he isn't the "rock" you make him out to be.

#40 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-02 12:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Whiny little nihilist B had to follow me over to the Dorian thread to whine even more.
#37 | POSTED BY CORKY

Obviously in your case devolve into tired old Trump ------- rwingers.
#39 | POSTED BY CORKY

Who is following who?

#41 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-02 12:11 PM | Reply

You are following Dullsville... too closely, as per usual.

Have you no decency!

#42 | Posted by Corky at 2019-09-02 12:19 PM | Reply

Sounds infinitely better than watching your tired old leftist dinosaurs drone on.

#38 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

You know who the dinosaurs are, literally?

The Founding Founders!

American Dialogue: The Founding Fathers and Us
www.youtube.com
[1:10:32]

The bones of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison are ossified and dead as doornails.

Did you know that Jefferson's POV of liberty is rooted in the heart of the individual (libertarian) and Adams countered that argument that a strong centralized government (federalism) is needed because of the dangers wrought from wealth inequality?

Did you know all that?

America is in it's SECOND Gilded Age -- not, good.

And, America's problems go back to Day 1 -- the phrase "to create a perfect Union" is even in the Constitution.

So the answers to America's problems have not changed, which the answers being having a balance between Jefferson's POV and Adams POV.

Did I mention that America is in it's SECOND Gilded Age?

I'm the worst biggest dummy and even I can figure all this out.

#43 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 12:59 PM | Reply

PinchALoaf, Bernie has changed his message, when his message didn't fit the Progressives views...

#40 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Wrong

Why does Bernie Sanders have sustained popularity?

Because he speaks to the problems America faces -- see post #43.

America's problems are bigger than one politician named Bernie Sanders.

#44 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 01:02 PM | Reply

American Dialogue: The Founding Fathers and Us
www.youtube.com
[1:10:32]

"Call right now and get the Director's Cut, featuring an additional 2 hours of bloviation.

Plus, we'll throw in 5 hours of Ralph Nader repeating the same things he's been droning on about for 60 years!

But wait! There's more. An autographed DVD featuring 2 hours of bleating by Hedrick Smith if you call in the next 30 minutes.

Call 1-800-True Believer and get progressive today!"

#45 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-02 01:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Nadar and Bernie have been correct about many things, but so was Ross Perot.

#3 | POSTED BYSHEEPLESCHISM

Agree, Ross Perot was right.

But I didn't know much then and voted for the WWII heroes in '92 and '96.

#46 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 01:30 PM | Reply

#45 | POSTED BYNULLIFIDIAN

That's funny stuff, really. Well done.

But you're not chanding my mind.

Here's the 1956 Republican Platform ...

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

We are proud of and shall continue our far-reaching and sound advances in matters of basic human needs"expansion of social security"broadened coverage in unemployment insurance "improved housing"and better health protection for all our people.

We are determined that our government remain warmly responsive to the urgent social and economic problems of our people.

To these beliefs we commit ourselves as we present this record and declare our goals for the future.

In addition, the Eisenhower Administration has enforced more vigorously and effectively than ever before, the laws which protect the working standards of our people.

Workers have benefited by the progress which has been made in carrying out the programs and principles set forth in the 1952 Republican platform.

All workers have gained and unions have grown in strength and responsibility, and have increased their membership by 2 millions.

Furthermore, the process of free collective bargaining has been strengthened by the insistence of this Administration that labor and management settle their differences at the bargaining table without the intervention of the Government.

This policy has brought to our country an unprecedented period of labor-management peace and understanding.

We applaud the effective, unhindered, collective bargaining which brought an early end to the 1956 steel strike, in contrast to the six months' upheaval, Presidential seizure of the steel industry and ultimate Supreme Court intervention under the last Democrat Administration.

The Eisenhower Administration will continue to fight for dynamic and progressive programs which, among other things, will:

Stimulate improved job safety of our workers, through assistance to the States, employees and employers;

Continue and further perfect its programs of assistance to the millions of workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers;

Strengthen and improve the Federal-State Employment Service and improve the effectiveness of the unemployment insurance system;

Protect by law, the assets of employee welfare and benefit plans so that workers who are the beneficiaries can be assured of their rightful benefits;

Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex;

Clarify and strengthen the eight-hour laws for the benefit of workers who are subject to federal wage standards on Federal and Federally-assisted construction, and maintain and continue the vigorous administration of the Federal prevailing minimum wage law for public supply contracts;

Extend the protection of the Federal minimum wage laws to as many more workers as is possible and practicable;

Continue to fight for the elimination of discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry or sex;

Provide assistance to improve the economic conditions of areas faced with persistent and substantial unemployment;

Revise and improve the Taft-Hartley Act so as to protect more effectively the rights of labor unions, management, the individual worker, and the public.

The protection of the right of workers to organize into unions and to bargain collectively is the firm and permanent policy of the Eisenhower Administration.


Reading that makes the ghost of Eugene Debs sit up and notice -- it is Labor Day, afterall.

Are you ever going to admit that America's problems, and the answers to them, haven't fundamentally changed?

#47 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 01:43 PM | Reply

"It will just be Trump taking advantage of the resentment among white men and women about non-whites demanding a place in our society. This is an an important social change in our country which eventually will be lost by the white society but we don't know exactly how long they will be able to cling to power. Pretending this is the fault of the Democrats for us trying to include everyone in our party is idiotic."

If that's the tack you want to take again, you'll definitely lose. The majority of people (white people) elected Obama twice, and then they were told they were racist simply for being white, for opposing illegal immigration, for not being self-loathing and for not seeing white supremacy lurking in every single aspect of America. Your party had a chance to denounce anti-white bigotry and racism in the lead up to the last election, but you chose not to because you tacitly tried to "include" those people in your party. Looks like you still haven't learned from it and are itching to see history repeat itself.

#48 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-02 04:40 PM | Reply

The majority of people (white people) elected Obama twice

#48 | POSTED BYSENTINEL

Obama never did win a majority of white voters.

In 2008, Obama won 43% of white voters.

In 2012, Obama won 39% of white voters.

www.washingtonpost.com

In 2016, Trump won 58% of white voters.

www.vox.com

#49 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 05:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

that's the tack you want to take again, you'll definitely lose. The majority of people (white people) elected Obama twice, and then they were told they were racist simply for being white, for opposing illegal immigration, for not being self-loathing and for not seeing white supremacy lurking in every single aspect of America.

Your party had a chance to denounce anti-white bigotry and racism in the lead up to the last election, but you chose not to because you tacitly tried to "include" those people in your party.

Looks like you still haven't learned from it and are itching to see history repeat itself.

#48 | POSTED BYSENTINEL

Everything you're saying is misinformed or outright wrong, but I commend you for trying to explain it.

#50 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 07:28 PM | Reply

then they were told they were racist ~ Sentinel

As we have been told be Speaks, the 14% that voted for Obama that voted for Trump were not racists.

Everything you're saying is misinformed or outright wrong, but I commend you for trying to explain it.

#50 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF

Not really, calling people "deplorables" really isn't a good move....

Don't worry Google and Facebook could bring in 5-10Million more votes in 2020 for the Democrats.
www.youtube.com

Its really insidious how they can do it too .... and people complain about the Russians LOL, they are pikers compared to Facebook and Google.

#51 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-02 07:39 PM | Reply

Don't worry Google and Facebook could bring in 5-10Million more votes in 2020 for the Democrats.
www.youtube.com

Its really insidious how they can do it too .... and people complain about the Russians LOL, they are pikers compared to Facebook and Google.

#51 | POSTED BYANDREAMACKRIS

Ted Cuz is the last person who should be crying about censorship after using the lie of birtherism to advance himself.

Ted Cuz is hypocritical garbage.

#52 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 08:27 PM | Reply

"Obama never did win a majority of white voters."

Fair enough. Neither has any other Democrat, going back as far as I can find any data on the demographics (1976). Whites do make up a majority of voters, and Obama could not have won without a certain threshold of them. So writing off that demographic is extremely foolish, for any Democrat.

"Everything you're saying is misinformed or outright wrong,"

Aside from that one nitpick, nope.

#53 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-02 08:38 PM | Reply

Keep your eye on the special election in NC on the 10th. That'll be an early clue. Also, wait to see how the Houston and Dallas suburbs vote. Hillary supporters that overconfidently sat out will be turning out in droves. Trump is having a difficult time because of suburban women.

#54 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-09-02 08:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Whites do make up a majority of voters, and Obama could not have won without a certain threshold of them. So writing off that demographic is extremely foolish, for any Democrat.

#53 | POSTED BYSENTINEL

I agree, I'm white and I want Democrats to speak to me ...

But not about my whiteness, but about my livelihood and well-being, which applies to everyone by the way.

And the Obama narrative and race has been unsurprisingly twisted by the usual right-wing suspects.

You know where I got the fact that Obama never got the majority of the white vote? Historian Joseph J. Eliis in his American Dialogue lecture on the Founding Fathers.

But after listening to right-wingers during Obama's eight years in office, American racism didn't exist anymore -- just look who's president(!).

I'm holding Democrats accountable, but you're not holding Republicans accountable.

#55 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-02 09:20 PM | Reply

Democrats could have it so easy if only they heeded and did something about what's roiling America ...

Film Review: The Corporate Coup D'tat
drudge.com

#56 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-03 09:00 AM | Reply

"I'm holding Democrats accountable, but you're not holding Republicans accountable."

I did hold them accountable, by doing my part to help elect Obama, twice. In the lead up to 2016, neither of the major parties earned nor deserved my vote. As you can see from my posting history, I'm currently supporting Biden and hope that he can pull it off in both the primaries and the general election next year.

#57 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-03 09:30 AM | Reply

Why do Liberals lose, because you can't fight fantasy.
And for some reason the "Liberal Media" keeps letting the Cons control the conversation.

#58 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-09-03 03:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why do Liberals lose, because you can't fight fantasy.
And for some reason the "Liberal Media" keeps letting the Cons control the conversation.

#58 | POSTED BY TFDNIHILIST

You are exactly right ...

Politics is a war of words and the Republicans are winning
drudge.com

#59 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-03 07:42 PM | Reply

I did hold them accountable, by doing my part to help elect Obama, twice. In the lead up to 2016, neither of the major parties earned nor deserved my vote. As you can see from my posting history, I'm currently supporting Biden and hope that he can pull it off in both the primaries and the general election next year.

#57 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

I'll vote for Biden if I have to, he's a low bar.

#60 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-03 07:50 PM | Reply

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