Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, September 04, 2019

In two studies, the researchers assessed the emotional abilities and political ideology of 983 Belgian undergraduate students. The second study also examined the participants' cognitive ability. Emotional ability was measured with three tests: the Situational Test of Emotional Understanding, the Situational Test of Emotion Management, and the Geneva Emotion Recognition Test. The researchers found that individuals with weaker emotional abilities " particularly emotional understanding and management " tended to score higher on a measure of right-wing authoritarianism and social dominance orientation. Right-wing authoritarianism is a personality trait that describes the tendency to submit to political authority and be hostile towards other groups, while social dominance orientation is a measure of a person's preference for inequality among social groups.

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No ----

----- The Not Brain Damaged

#1 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-09-04 10:51 AM | Reply

Majority of Americans still don't have a college education, unlike all other modern western countries that have free or nearly free college.

Which is probably why America's elites aren't all that interested about free college, despite America having more than enough money to pay for it.

Another strike against free college the elites don't want Americans to know ...

Simply having a college education increases the health of the population, which reduces healthcare costs -- per the #1 determinant of health of the healthcare discipline, population health management.

#2 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 11:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Which is probably why America's elites aren't all that interested about free college, despite America having more than enough money to pay for it.

#2 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2019-09-04 11:05 AM "

Where is this money hiding? The US debt is $22 trillion. The budget deficit is $739 billion

www.washingtonpost.com

www.npr.org

#3 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 11:09 AM | Reply

Leftwing social "scientists" can create "studies" that "prove" anything they want. Next.

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-04 11:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Where is this money hiding?

In plain sight. It require math and creative financing.

Also the will and desire. Which republicans obviously don't have.

For FY 2012, nearly $60B in tuition was collected from grad and undergrad students at public colleges.

$77.68B was spent on non-loan educational aid for FY 2012.

Of the $42.5B in FY 2012 grants, $35B was for Pell Grants, most of which already goes to state schools (for FY 2011, 61% of Pell Grants).

The federal government is already spending the money that could be used to subsidize free tuition. Were they to instead award all the non-loan money to public colleges, who educate over 3/4 of American students, that amounts to free tuition " plus a savings, plus lowered management costs on student loans (especially for defaults), since loan needs will decline.

Loans could still be awarded for those willing to take it on, to attend a more expensive for-profit or private institution. However, those attending public colleges and universities would only have to be concerned with various fees and room and board " and some institutions subsidize room and board.

#5 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-09-04 11:20 AM | Reply


#6 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-09-04 11:20 AM | Reply

#6 | Posted by donnerboy

Your best post ever.

#7 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-04 11:25 AM | Reply | Funny: 4

Where is this money hiding? The US debt is $22 trillion. The budget deficit is $739 billion

#3 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Did that stop Republicans from doling out trillions of dollars of free taxpayer money to corporations already making record profits?

Plus, America's wealth by itself can easily be leveraged to pay the costs of free college -- making the return to investment long term cost effective with a healthier population, which also reduces healthcare costs.

Step your game up, child.

#8 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 11:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Step your game up, child.

#8 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2019-09-04 11:27 AM "

It's only a so-so deflection and doesn't answer the question. There are 2.2 million students entering college each year. The average cost of public college is $20,000/year. That's $44 billion a year for the first year of college alone. This doesn't factor in all four years. Many drop out before graduation, but enough stay in toe make this > $100 bilion a year.

Again, where will this money come from?

#9 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 11:41 AM | Reply

^ oops. Forgot my citation:

www.valuepenguin.com

www.quora.com

#10 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 11:42 AM | Reply

Leftwing social "scientists" can create "studies" that "prove" anything they want. Next.

Dunning Kruger in full effect.

#11 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-04 11:49 AM | Reply

-There are 2.2 million students entering college each year.

which will grow significantly when it becomes free.

it's a nice idea...but has zero chance politically.

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 11:51 AM | Reply

There are 2.2 million students entering college each year.

which will grow significantly when it becomes free.
it's a nice idea...but has zero chance politically.
#12 | POSTED BY EBERLY

More people getting access to an education?

Oh no! Sounds like a nightmare!!

Better vote republican and prevent such a horrible occurrence.

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 11:58 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Again, where will this money come from?

#9 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

The money is already there and being spent.

It just has to be redirected.

"The federal government is already spending the money that could be used to subsidize free tuition. Were they to instead award all the non-loan money to public colleges, who educate over 3/4 of American students, that amounts to free tuition " plus a savings, plus lowered management costs on student loans (especially for defaults), since loan needs will decline."

It would be easy. If we have had the will. Republicans do not want us to be educated. Obviously

How could the Know Nothing Party possibly survive if everyone had a college education??

#14 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-09-04 12:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Oh no! Sounds like a nightmare!!
Better vote republican and prevent such a horrible occurrence.

#13 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

It's like you to twist words. I'm pretty sure eberly was eluding to the fact it takes money -- a lot of it, which is a polital hard sell. There is no such thing as free college -- anywhere or in any country.

TANSTAAFL

#15 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 12:02 PM | Reply

"The money is already there and being spent.
It just has to be redirected. "

Redirected from where?

#16 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 12:03 PM | Reply

Redirected from where?

#16 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

The money is obviously there if we can give a trillion dollar tax cut to the wealthy.

I don't have the time or resources to educate you.

77.68B was spent on non-loan educational aid for FY 2012.

#17 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-09-04 12:05 PM | Reply

"I don't have the time or resources to educate you.

#17 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY"

Translation: You don't know. Don't feel badly. Neither do I nor anyone else.

#18 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 12:07 PM | Reply

If I understand this correctly, "emotional intelligence" is, to a large extent, a way to score one's empathy. I also see that as a theory, it has only gained traction in the last 25 years.

I suppose the findings come as no surprise. People who let "the feels" control their actions are clearly more likely to pursue a life that makes them happy, and they will similarly be more inclined to empathize with the "plights" of others. Someone willing crush his enemies before him and hear the lamentations of their women clearly is less empathetic.

#19 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-09-04 12:29 PM | Reply

"More people getting access to an education?
Oh no! Sounds like a nightmare!!"

I didn't call it a nightmare. I said it has no chance politically.

And not because only 1 party won't support it. If it were that simple, then it wouldn't be impossible.

but it is...

I'm afraid you're part of the extreme left who loves being pandered to with unrealistic political agendas.

Whomever wins the democratic nomination.......there is no way they are taking this issue any further.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 12:45 PM | Reply

"More people getting access to an education indoctrination?
Oh no! Sounds like a nightmare!!"

Yes it does. That's why the Left loves "free" college. They wouldn't favor it all if academia was politically neutral. They know academia is becoming a leftwing bootcamp for a new generation of activists. They never talk about free vocational and trade schools because those teach skills, not ideology, and people with real skills aren't dependent on the party of government.

#21 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-04 12:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

You have to admit that the left is emotionally unhinged.

#22 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-04 01:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

College (and healthcare) will never be free here, no one would join the military if it was.

#23 | Posted by qcp at 2019-09-04 01:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm afraid you're part of the extreme left

I'm part of the "extreme left" because I'm in favor of free healthcare and education?

So you must believe Australia, England, Germany, France, Canada, and all other nations who provide their citizens with healthcare and education, to be extreme left leaning nations.

No. I'm not "extreme left", the extreme left would be in favor of dismantling our capitalist society and hanging over corporations to the workers.

I'm slightly left of center. But, from where you're standing, the right, anything left of center seems like "extreme left".

#24 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 01:24 PM | Reply

"College (and healthcare) will never be free here, no one would join the military if it was.

#23 | POSTED BY QCP"

It will never be free anywhere. Doctors don't work for free. Drug companies don't give their product for free. Hospitals dont grow out of the ground with a little water and sunshine. Ditto college campuses. Books might start from a free tree, but that is where the money kicks in. Professors and teachers don't work for free.

Who perpetuates the silly idea these things are free? Furthermore, who are the idiots who believe it?

TANSTAAFL

#25 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 01:28 PM | Reply

" ...I'm in favor of free healthcare and education?

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

There is no such thing.

There is taxpayer funded education and healthcare. But lefties don't like to call it that because it exposes too much of the truth. "Free" sounds so much better and progressive and gives them the opportunity to berate people who don't agree with them. After all, only an ------- would be opposed to "free" stuff.

It's kind of like being for abortion rights is called the non-offending "pro-choice", just as choosing bacon or sausage for breakfast is a choice.

As George Carlin said, "Americans like to hide behind soft language that does not offend and hides the truth". Yep. Es la verdad.

#26 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 01:35 PM | Reply

-I'm part of the "extreme left" because I'm in favor of free healthcare and education?

yes. for a couple of reasons. 1. you think it's free and 2. you buy this from dems trying to win the democratic nomination....you can't see you're being lied to.

you are definitely part of the extreme left.

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 01:57 PM | Reply

-No. I'm not "extreme left"

acceptance is the first step, shart.

you're still in denial.

#28 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 01:58 PM | Reply

Goatman's circular "where da money gonna --- from" just show's Goat hasn't changed one bit.

"Hey Goat, America is the richest country in the world"

"Oh noes it ain't, no munny!"
-- Goat-a-Lamb-a-ding-dong

Hilarious

#29 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 03:01 PM | Reply

"Hilarious

#29 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Not as hilarious as you hijackng a thread again and try to make it about me rather than admit you were talking out of your ass.

So where is the money going to come from? If you don't know, just say so. Deflecting by hijacking the thread by making a post about me just makes you look desperate. If you can't admit you don't know, just remain silent.

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 03:07 PM | Reply

Feels like there's two subspecies:
Humans that experience empathy and humans that do not experience empathy.
However, I'm pretty sure this is a learned behavior, since it sure is in monkeys!

www.psychologynoteshq.com
Results of the Harlow Monkey Experiment

After observing the baby monkeys over time, Harlow found that even though the baby monkeys received nourishment from the wire mesh mother, they still spent more time cuddling and being affectionate with the terry cloth mother. This showed that the bond between mother and infant was not solely based on whether the mother is able to provide the infant with physiological needs.

Furthermore, the results of the second experiment showed that while the baby monkeys in both groups consumed the same amount of milk from their "mother", the babies who grew up with the terry cloth mother exhibited emotional attachment and what is considered as normal behaviour when presented with stressful variables. Whenever they felt threatened, they would stay close to the terry cloth mother and cuddle with it until they were calm.

The results for the wire mesh mother were the opposite. In this case, the baby monkeys reacted rather differently with the same stimulus " throwing themselves on the floor, rocking back and forth, and evidently did not go to the wire mesh mother for comfort.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:09 PM | Reply

Not as hilarious as you hijackng a thread again and try to make it about me rather than admit you were talking out of your ass.

#30 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Your hoove prints are allover this thread, dummy.

I know exactly what I'm talking about, and it's mouth breathing trolls like you who screw things up for the worse.

America is the richest country in the world, yet pea-brained people like you fall for the rightwing con everytime.

Funny, but not funny = hilarious (as in Jim Rome saying it).

#32 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 03:20 PM | Reply

"Your hoove prints are allover this thread, dummy."

True. But I was not the one who hijacked it. I merely responded to the hijackers once they had.

Nice try. But if you are going to swoop down to save your leftie hijackers, be prepared for me to present you with the truth about what happened. Apparently your PGUP key doesn't work. And your childish name calling won't scare me away from posting the facts.

Name calling says a lot more about your emotional immaturity and lack of self confidence than it says about me. Learn this.

NAME CALLING: HOW TOXIC PEOPLE USE IT AS AN EMOTIONAL WEAPON

www.groundedgirlsguide.com

#33 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 03:30 PM | Reply

NAME CALLING: HOW TOXIC PEOPLE USE IT AS AN EMOTIONAL WEAPON

#33 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Hey Goatwoman, how did you ever make it thru basic training?

And, Gina, you still haven't refuted the fact that America is the richest country in the world.

#34 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 03:48 PM | Reply

NAME CALLING: HOW TOXIC PEOPLE USE IT AS AN EMOTIONAL WEAPON

Funny stuff, from the guy who can't help but call people hypocrites on a daily basis.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:48 PM | Reply

"Funny stuff, from the guy who can't help but call people hypocrites on a daily basis.

#35 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

I guess it's funny, IDK. But calling a hypocrite a hypocite is not name calling. It is citing an objective fact. But glad it tickled your funny bone anyway.

#36 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 03:51 PM | Reply

"Hey Goatwoman,

#34 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Another misogynist, just like JPW who uses a female's title or gender derisively as if they are inferior to men.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 03:54 PM | Reply

"But calling a hypocrite a hypocite is not name calling."

Ridiculous nonsense, even by your standards, Goatman.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:56 PM | Reply

"Ridiculous nonsense, even by your standards, Goatman.

#38 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-09-04 03:56 PM "

Works for me.

Bye, now!

#39 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 04:10 PM | Reply

Another misogynist, just like JPW who uses a female's title or gender derisively as if they are inferior to men.

#37 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Massaggiiee-what?

I don't care for fancy words -- did you use the word "misogynist" on your drill instructors in basic? No. Simple language, squid.

And your level of denialism makes you a mouth breathing sociopath.

#40 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 04:16 PM | Reply

"And your level of denialism makes you a mouth breathing sociopath.
#40 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF"

At least I don't use the word "woman" derisively as misogynists like you do.

"I don't care for fancy words

#40 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

No surpise there. I'll try to stick to monosyllabic words (that means words with one syllable. Do you know what a syllable is?) from now on when addressing you.

#41 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 04:19 PM | Reply

Loaf,

misogynist
/m'sj'n'st/

noun
a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

#42 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-09-04 04:24 PM | Reply

Whereas the accurate definition of JPW is:

a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against trolls.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 04:25 PM | Reply

At least I don't use the word "woman" derisively as misogynists like you do.

#41 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Whatever you say, Ma'am.

#44 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 04:50 PM | Reply

Belgium is a different culture.

America has a rising left-wing authoritarianism political movement.

How would you interpolate this study into what is going on in the US?

#45 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-04 06:28 PM | Reply

I should have worded it, "left-wing authoritarian movement"

#46 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-04 06:32 PM | Reply

"left-wing authoritarian political movement"....ok

#47 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-04 06:33 PM | Reply

I'm part of the "extreme left" because I'm in favor of free healthcare and education?

yes. for a couple of reasons. 1. you think it's free

What a fkkking waste of time it is to discuss anything with you.

2. you buy this from dems trying to win the democratic nomination....you can't see you're being lied to.

Says the idiot who actually believes we can't use taxpayer money to help future generations get an education and healthcare.

Because politicians won't allow it.

Not because right wing extremist morons in this country have been taught to hate their fellow Americans.


you are definitely part of the extreme left.
#27 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Again, there is no extreme left in America. You're a fffking idiot who parrots shht he's heard.

Extreme leftists would be more concerned with destroying our capitalist society.

Get out into the real world and meet a liberal. Perhaps they can help you open up your mind.

#48 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 06:40 PM | Reply

- Get out into the real world and meet a liberal. Perhaps they can help you open up your mind.

That's right, Eberly. You'll be wearing stinky pajamas before the conversation ends.

#49 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-04 06:54 PM | Reply

"yes. for a couple of reasons. 1. you think it's free"

Hahahaha!!!!!

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 06:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#50

Tell me about it.

It's exhausting trying to educate these -- king morons.

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 06:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You can't educate the unwilling.

I mean, you can.... A little waterboarding is great at helping people remember things they've forgotten!

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 07:00 PM | Reply

Clown and snoofy jacking each other off wondering why nobody listens to them.

The comedy never stops here

#53 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 07:05 PM | Reply

Again, where will this money come from?
#9 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Just throwing this out there: Back when the Beatles were recording, college was free in California and almost free in most other states. So, Bernie and other Democrats are not proposing anything wackadoodle-crazy; just proposing we return to when MAGA actually would make sense.

Somehow, that is not what the Red Hats wish to discuss.

#54 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2019-09-04 07:07 PM | Reply

Clown and snoofy jacking each other off wondering why nobody listens to them.
The comedy never stops here
#53 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Great retort, stupid.

Why did I think you were actually here to discuss anything?

#55 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:09 PM | Reply

But it's all good here.

My definition of extreme left is my definition.

It's subjective. Compared to the rest of the country, clownshart represents the EXTREME LEFT.

#56 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 07:11 PM | Reply

That's $44 billion a year for the first year of college alone.

So, less than Trump's wall. A fraction of the price.

Again, where will this money come from?
#9 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

$44billion? Check the couch cushions of the military budget.

How sad that this is your real concern. $44 billion is nothing.

#57 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:12 PM | Reply

"Clown and snoofy jacking each other off wondering why nobody listens to them."

Eberly REALLY wants that cookie.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 07:13 PM | Reply

"Why did I think you were actually here to discuss anything?"

Give him a chance.
He might be down to discuss why he, not SheepleSchism, deserves the cookie.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 07:15 PM | Reply

"$44 billion is nothing.

#57 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-09-04 07:12 PM |"

It's more like $100 billion. Is that also "nothing"?

#60 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:16 PM | Reply

My definition of extreme left is my definition.

If the definition of a term can vary from person to person, then it's meaningless.

What you can't do is accept that there is no extreme left in America. Or if they do exist, they're in such a minority, you've never actually heard from them.

What's happened in reality is, you've been taught things like universal healthcare and education are impossible for various reasons, it's a give away, education is for snobs, it's indoctrination, you're paying for someone else's healthcare, people are freeloading. America is too big. You're paying for illegal immigrants! All bull, all there to scare you and make you mad.

You've been taught these things are only sought after by radical extremists. You've been taught to ignore the fact nearly every other country has these things. You've been taught to be jealous and envious of others.

It's indoctrination and it's very effective.

#61 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:20 PM | Reply

"...college was free in California and almost free in most other states.

#54 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR "

And look where California is now financially.

But it's a great idea, actually. Leave it up to the states.

#62 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Maybe Old Man Eberly can tell us his definition of the N-Word next.

Spoiler alert: It's not racist, it just means "a lazy person." Says so right in his 1931 dictionary!

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 07:23 PM | Reply

It's more like $100 billion. Is that also "nothing"?
#60 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Yes.

"U.S. GDP of about $20 trillion in 2018, 1% of GDP is about $200 billion."

en.m.wikipedia.org

#64 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:23 PM | Reply

"And look where California is now financially."

Fifth largest economy in the world, if taken as its own country.
Oops, did I just conflate economics with finances?
What a shame!

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 07:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

look where California is now financially

Carrying the rest of America on its back.

You're welcome.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If the definition of a term can vary from person to person, then it's meaningless. "

You're in 5th grade.

Subjective terms are too complex for you.

#67 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 07:25 PM | Reply

""U.S. GDP of about $20 trillion in 2018, 1% of GDP is about $200 billion."
en.m.wikipedia.org

#64 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

And how does one go about the unprecedented act of taking change in the military's sofa cushions?

But hey, if you can then go for it.

#68 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:26 PM | Reply

"Carrying the rest of America on its back.
You're welcome.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

LOL

Citation needed.

#69 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:28 PM | Reply

"All bull, all there to scare you and make you mad. "

You're the one who's mad, shart.

It's not realistic now. That's it. Sorry that pisses you off.

#70 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 07:30 PM | Reply

how does one go about the unprecedented act of taking change in the military's sofa cushions?
But hey, if you can then go for it.
#68 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Think of it this way Goat, you got $20 you normally spend on booze, buds and babes.

But if you figure out how to save 20 cents, you can also have healthcare and education.

Now you, being a typical Trumpublican, couldn't imagine giving up your booze, buds and babes, so you kick and scream and cry. Just like Eberly is doing. Just like a portion of Americans are doing.

It's not that we can't do it. It's just, people like you won't allow it to happen.

#71 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:34 PM | Reply

It's not realistic now.
#70 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Why not?

#72 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:35 PM | Reply

"Fifth largest economy in the world, if taken as its own country.

#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

And one of the lowest credit ratings of the 50 states, even if taken as its own country.

taxfoundation.org

#73 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:37 PM | Reply

"Now you, being a typical Trumpublican,
#71 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Try again without assigning false positions. I'm more interested in the truth than whatever you want to fabricate.

#74 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:38 PM | Reply

Try again without assigning false positions.

Don't need to. My point was made.

The money isn't the issue.

It's the fact Republicans have been conditioned to believe using it for national healthcare and education is the same as stealing.

Using our tax dollars to better the lives of all Americans is seen as a waste of money. A loss.

But, giving it to corporations, the MIC, and other countries is totally fine.

As a matter of fact, without our tax dollars, Israelis couldn't afford their national healthcare and education, that we are providing them.

We can literally provide Israelis with what Eberly is trying to convince himself we can't provide Americans.

#75 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Don't need to. My point was made.

#75 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

A point that contains lies is not a point made.

Learn this.

#76 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

A point that contains lies is not a point made.

So you're going to start kicking and screaming because I created a hypothetical scenario?

Great. Go for it.

#77 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 07:54 PM | Reply

I think it's called an investment. People who go to college earn more money, hence pay more taxes. Also, healthier people work more, hence pay more taxes.

#78 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-09-04 07:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"So you're going to start kicking and screaming because I created a hypothetical scenario?
Great. Go for it.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

???

If you say calling someone out on falsehoods is "kicking and screaming" (most English speakers don't) then yes, I'm "kicking and screaming"

#79 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 07:57 PM | Reply

Also, an educated, healthy population requires less social services, etc.

#80 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-09-04 08:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I think it's called an investment. People who go to college earn more money, hence pay more taxes. Also, healthier people work more, hence pay more taxes.

#78 | POSTED BY TFDNIHILIST "

That is a fallacy one learns in economics 101. The same jobs exist and are required to run the country no matter how many sheepskins are out there. Let's say everyone has a college degree. That doesn't mean the guy picks up my trash is going to make more. Supply and demand still exists.

Or if the same degreed trashman decides he's holding out for higher wages because of his sheepskin, he'll get them of course, because we need people to pick up the trash. But guess what happens. Inflation, that's what. If you need me to explain why inflation is necessarily the outcome of your "People who go to college earn more money, hence pay more taxes." scenario, let me know. I'd rather not go into the obvious, but for you (or anyone else) I will.

#81 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 08:03 PM | Reply

calling someone out on falsehoods

The point was simple. The money is there.

#82 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 08:06 PM | Reply

"The money is there.

#82 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

The money is there for everything if everyone is allowed to shuffle it around as freely and easily as you make it sound.

#83 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 08:09 PM | Reply

The money is there for everything if everyone is allowed to shuffle it around as freely and easily as you make it sound.

#83 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Shuffling around money is easy.

Everyone does it.

What isn't easy is convincing people that it's beneficial to do so.

Too many people have been brainwashed into fearing things like universal healthcare and education. Either because they didn't get it when it was their turn or because they see it as stealing or they fear it's all going to help illegal immigrants.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 08:17 PM | Reply

"Shuffling around money is easy.
Everyone does it.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

Cool. Go for it. You have my go-ahead.

#85 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 08:21 PM | Reply

Cool. Go for it. You have my go-ahead.
#85 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

I do, with my personal finances.

Maybe one day we'll get a president and Congress who will do it for Americans.

Sanders will. Same with Warren.

Which is why the Republicans hate and fear them, and the democrats don't know what to do with them.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 08:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Too bad Eberly knee jerked his way out of here.

That guy is potential for a good discussion.

He's just unwilling to commit to it.

#87 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 08:35 PM | Reply

Why can'y we just kill all these "low emotional intelligence" guys? Problem solved, right?

#88 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2019-09-04 09:20 PM | Reply

Maybe one day we'll get a president and Congress who will do it for Americans.

Sanders will. Same with Warren.

Which is why the Republicans hate and fear them, and the democrats don't know what to do with them.

#86 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

That is exactly right.

#89 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 09:24 PM | Reply

social dominance orientation is a measure of a person's preference for inequality among social groups. ~ FTA

this is right up the DRLefts & SJW's wheel house....

#90 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-04 09:24 PM | Reply

"That is exactly right.
#89 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

IIRC, you were a bernie fan in the 2016 election, weren't you?

#91 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 09:31 PM | Reply

Cut the military budget in half.. still leaves $375 billion for defense... still more then Russia and China combined.

#92 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-09-04 09:33 PM | Reply

Cut the military budget in half..

Trump just increased the military budget.

Even with his tax cuts for the rich (himself), Congress still found money to increase the military budget.

Then you got Eberly and Goat wringing their wrists over where the money would come from for education and healthcare.

It's not the money that's the issue. It's the willingness to care about Americans.

#93 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 09:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

social dominance orientation is a measure of a person's preference for inequality among social groups. ~ FTA

this is right up the DRLefts & SJW's wheel house....

#90 | POSTED BYANDREAMACKRIS

Who cares about job titles, and wanting to drink a beer with George Bush or Hillary Clinton.

You know, historian Joseph J. Ellis in 'American Dialogue' talks about how the Founding Fathers debated giving each other fancy titles as a national compensatory gratuity post-public service ... in lieu of using their post-public service for things like insider trading and highly paid influence peddling speeches -- the fancy title idea didn't get very far.

#94 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 09:43 PM | Reply

It's not the money that's the issue. It's the willingness to care about Americans.

#93 | POSTED BYCLOWNSHACK

If you explain to Goat that America is the richest country in the world and yet half the population is poor, he'll posted links refuting that not exactly 50% are poor -- and then do the circular troll routine for 20 posts trying to back up his BS.

#95 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 09:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's not the money that's the issue. It's the willingness to care about Americans.

#93 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

Good point about caring for Americans. I'm more than willing to do so. You love to play the 'shuffle the money around' game. Let's get the money spent on illegal immigration which is $116 billion/yr. After all, I do care about Americans in spite of what you say or imply. I don't care a whit for illegal lawbreaking aliens.

"The costs of illegal immigration are comprehensive. Even after deducting the $19 billion in taxes paid by illegal immigrants, the 12.5 million of them living in the country results in a $116 billion burden on the economy and taxpayers each year."

thehill.com

#96 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 09:47 PM | Reply

"If you explain to Goat that America is the richest country in the world and yet half the population is poor, he'll posted links refuting that not exactly 50% are poor -- and then do the circular troll routine for 20 posts trying to back up his BS.
#95 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF"

And if I found links that proved you wrong, you would spin, spin, spin and insist that is not what you meant.

If you are going to accuse me of playing games, best stop playing your own. I know as a liberal you feel you are entitled to the double standard. But I don't believe in them like you.

#97 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 09:50 PM | Reply

IIRC, you were a bernie fan in the 2016 election, weren't you?

#91 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Why do you ask, Chuckles?

You want to engage in more flame fisticuffs over you twisting something related to Bernie?

#98 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 09:51 PM | Reply

I know as a liberal ...

#97 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

You're a liberal now?

#99 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 09:52 PM | Reply

"I know as a liberal ...

#97 | POSTED BY GOATMAN
You're a liberal now?
#99 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF"

I am a social liberal, yes.

You are a liar by taking my quote out of context and treating it as a dangling participle (it's not due to the lack of a comma after 'liberal') But who amongst us is surprised you would do such a dishonest thing? No one I can think of. Get over the butt hurt and stop lying.

#100 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 09:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You want to engage in more flame fisticuffs over you twisting something related to Bernie?
#98 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

No. It just confirms something I knew anyway.

#101 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 09:57 PM | Reply

"I am a social liberal"

People also ask
What does it mean to be a social liberal?
A social liberal government is expected to address economic and social issues such as poverty, health care, education and the climate using government intervention whilst also emphasising the rights and autonomy of the individual.
Social liberalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org wiki Social_liberalism
Search for: What does it mean to be a social liberal?

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 10:10 PM | Reply

"It's not the money that's the issue. It's the willingness to care about Americans."

To you and me, perhaps. But this is sticky politically

Do you believe this is possible because it's only the GOP that stands in the way?

You're unbelievably wrong about that.

This is a much harder sell to the dems than you think.

Sorry I had to leave earlier. Football practice.

#103 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 11:09 PM | Reply

"Then you got Eberly and Goat wringing their wrists over where the money would come from for education and healthcare. "

I've never claimed it's financially impossible.

I've claimed it's politically impossible.

Despite widespread agreement that healthcare and higher education have spiraled out of control and out of reach, financially, for too many Americans.......the notion of Medicare for all and free college scares the schittt out of most Democrats.

This is just fat talk coming Democrats trying to win a primary. It's a race to the left that ends the instant there is a nominee and the candidate runs back closer to the middle.....

.....too far away from free healthcare and college.

Can't be sold yet.

#104 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 11:16 PM | Reply

-Can't be sold yet.

Wait until Sanders tries to sell his $16 trillion New Green Scheme.

#105 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-04 11:21 PM | Reply

A social liberal government is expected to address economic and social issues such as poverty, health care, education and the climate using government intervention whilst also emphasising the rights and autonomy of the individual.

LambChild stands for none of that, despite calling himself a "social liberal" ... America is the richest country in the world, but there's no money to pay for those things which is LambChild's actual right-wing, austerity, ---------, position.

#106 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 11:23 PM | Reply

"LambChild"...

I have a hard time keeping up with cutesie names. Which one is "lambchild"? I don't see a user with that name.

#107 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 11:25 PM | Reply

This is just fat talk coming Democrats trying to win a primary. It's a race to the left that ends the instant there is a nominee and the candidate runs back closer to the middle.....

#104 | POSTED BYEBERLY

But that's the traditional way of looking at it, left vs right, and the reason why pundits got it wrong 2016 is because we're in a bottom vs top situation ...

America is rich, yet half the country is poor ... people at the bottom who are struggling are rejecting the old tradition politics.

That's why Bernie has sustained popularity.

#108 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 11:30 PM | Reply

You know, historian Joseph J. Ellis in 'American Dialogue' talks about how the Founding Fathers debated giving each other fancy titles as a national compensatory gratuity post-public service ... in lieu of using their post-public service for things like insider trading and highly paid influence peddling speeches -- the fancy title idea didn't get very far.
#94 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF

You seem have trouble understanding what "social dominance" means.

#109 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-04 11:35 PM | Reply

Bernie is sustaining popularity because he's telling folks what they want to hear. Telling folks they're poor and downtrodden.

It won't win an national election. Too many moderates turned off by that and his plans scare too many people.....many of them in the Democratic Party.

#110 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-04 11:38 PM | Reply

You seem have trouble understanding what "social dominance" means.

#109 | POSTED BYANDREAMACKRIS

You seem to not understand what wealth inequality and the French Revolution taught the Founding Fathers.

#111 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 11:41 PM | Reply

"You seem to not understand what wealth inequality and the French Revolution taught the Founding Fathers.

POSTED BY PINCHALOAF"

The Constitution was written and ratified before the French Revolution. So if the founding fathers learned anything from it, it had no impact on our country.

#112 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 11:47 PM | Reply

--You seem to not understand what wealth inequality and the French Revolution taught the Founding Fathers."

Fortunately, the founders weren't fanatical Leftists like the Jacobins who first sent the rich to the guillotine and then started murdering each other. They made a nationalist revolution, not a social revolution.

#113 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-04 11:51 PM | Reply

Bernie is sustaining popularity because he's telling folks what they want to hear. Telling folks they're poor and downtrodden.

It won't win an national election.

#110 | POSTED BYEBERLY

But that's how Trump won, by railing against China and trade agreements that sent our factories and jobs overseas.

Working and middle-class voters struggling economically won it for Trump.

You're right in that Establishment Democrats are afraid of Bernie and Warren, it's for that same reason that Trump won.

Also remember that when you look at the issues Bernie talks about one by one, each one has strong national support.

Lastly, these economically squeezed working and middle-class voters are constantly being told how great the economy is, yet they're working multiple jobs just to make ends meet -- that's why they're pissed off and rejecting the old Left vs. Right politics.

Something has to give.

#114 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-04 11:57 PM | Reply

The Constitution was written and ratified before the French Revolution. So if the founding fathers learned anything from it, it had no impact on our country.

#112 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Goat-troll is fully back, and he and his hooves and horns are as hacktastic as ever.

#115 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-05 12:00 AM | Reply

Bernie has exactly zero chance of winning the nomination, much less the presidency. If people want an old white guy, they'll go for Biden, not the far left socialist.

#116 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:01 AM | Reply

"Goat-troll is fully back, and he and his hooves and horns are as hacktastic as ever.

#115 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Once again Pinche Oaf proves that if he cannot rebut, he descends to child mode and posts ad hominem.

Pinche Oaf, this thread is not about me. Please stop hijacking it.

#117 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:03 AM | Reply

"Lastly, these economically squeezed working and middle-class voters are constantly being told how great the economy is, yet they're working multiple jobs just to make ends meet -- that's why they're pissed off and rejecting the old Left vs. Right politics.

Something has to give."

Okay. Fair enough. But M4A and free college is the solution?

Forever, folks at the bottom claim they are sick of same ole politics.....but they really aren't. Yes they can be turned on by someone they view as an outsider (trump) but the message can't be free college and healthcare.

You can't even sell that concept to the very people it would help the most.

They won't believe it's possible.

Good talk. Off to bed.

#118 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-05 12:12 AM | Reply

"Bernie has exactly zero chance of winning the nomination, much less the presidency"

It's tough enough for a moderate New England liberal like Biden in the swing states....Bernie has a huge uphill battle.

#119 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-05 12:14 AM | Reply

Fortunately, the founders weren't fanatical Leftists like the Jacobins who first sent the rich to the guillotine and then started murdering each other. They made a nationalist revolution, not a social revolution.

#113 | POSTED BYNULLIFIDIAN

I know what you're getting at, but Robespierre was an instrumental agitator during all the executions.

In fact, ex-Republican Mike Lofgren likened Newt Gingrich and the 1994 Gingrich Revolution, along with Newt's destructive leadership style to the once formal Congressional order of doing House business, to Robespierre -- I couldn't help but get that in.

#120 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-05 12:19 AM | Reply

"New England liberal like Biden"

Delaware?
He's guilty of being north of the Mason-Dixon line, I guess that's close enough.

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 12:27 AM | Reply

Bernie has exactly zero chance of winning the nomination, much less the presidency. If people want an old white guy, they'll go for Biden, not the far left socialist.

#116 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Get it right, hack.

Bernie is a Democratic-Socialist and you're a "social liberal".

Therefore you should fully know and fully understand what Bernie is all about in addressing ...

A social liberal government is expected to address economic and social issues such as poverty, health care, education and the climate using government intervention whilst also emphasising the rights and autonomy of the individual.

I get it, you just say stuff.

The only problem is you pollute threads with this mindless inanity.

#122 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-05 12:28 AM | Reply

Another misogynist, just like JPW who uses a female's title or gender derisively as if they are inferior to men.

#37 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Still lying and still thinks he's the victim when people plonk his trolling ass.

Also nice to see I'm in your head, stalker.

#123 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 12:31 AM | Reply

"#116 | POSTED BYGOATMAN
Get it right, hack."

I am right. If America wants an old white guy, they'll go for Biden, not the far left socialist.

"The only problem is you pollute threads with this mindless inanity.

#122 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

I'm still right, in spite of your continuing childish attacks. Try a rebuttal for a change. Tell me why Bernie has a better chance than Biden. I know it's easier to condescend, but give it a try anyway. I won't laugh if you fail miserably.

#124 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:33 AM | Reply

You seem have trouble understanding what "social dominance" means.
#109 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

An example of social dominance:
Hurting the people who need to get hurt.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 12:34 AM | Reply

"Also nice to see I'm in your head, stalker.

POSTED BY JPW "

So funny how all these people grandstand and with much bravado announce to the DR that they are plonking me, yet still reply. LOL

I'm not surprised about JPW, actually, given that he is so vain and full of himself he couldn't stand it thinking that someone might be talking about him and he'd miss it.

Do like Americnunity and keep plonking me over and over, son. But don't forget to tell everyone you are doing it so they'll all be as impressed with you as you are with yourself! LOL

#126 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:37 AM | Reply

An example of social dominance:
Hurting the people who need to get hurt.
#125 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Yes, this is exactly what the DR Left and SJW's want to have happen.

So glad you can help PinchALoaf understand his own perspective.

#127 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-05 12:43 AM | Reply

"Yes, this is exactly what the DR Left and SJW's want to have happen."

No, it's a quote from a Trump supporter, disappointed that Trump's policies were hurting him, not the people who he thought needed to be hurt.

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 01:30 AM | Reply

-Bernie is a Democratic-Socialist and you're a "social liberal".

Bernie will be what we decide he will be.

He'll get labeled a New England Far left socialist and there is little he can do about it.

Which is why he is not a good pick to defeat Trump.

#129 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-05 08:57 AM | Reply

--He'll get labeled a New England Far left socialist

He labeled himself a socialist. That was helpful to get attention as the eccentric Mayor, congressman,Senator; and to get fawning attention from leftist rags like Mother Jones.

Turns out that self-labeling might cost him the nomination. Warren has the same policies but didn't shoot herself in the foot with that label.

#130 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-05 09:05 AM | Reply

"There are 2.2 million students entering college each year. The average cost of public college is $20,000/year. That's $44 billion a year for the first year of college alone. This doesn't factor in all four years. Many drop out before graduation, but enough stay in toe make this > $100 bilion a year. Again, where will this money come from?"

Repeal the Trump Tax Code. That's almost $300 billion a year, since the 8yr horizon will ultimately cost taxpayers ~$2.3 Trillion.

#131 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 10:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#131 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

No thanks, it will just make the tuition rise even more. ....

Find the ones with government financial involvement ....
qph.fs.quoracdn.net

#132 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-05 10:57 AM | Reply

Just throwing this out there: Back when the Beatles were recording, college was free in California and almost free in most other states. ..Somehow, that is not what the Red Hats wish to discuss.
#54 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2019-09-04 07:07 PM

So what is stopping California from making college free in California? Why would any Red Hats even be needed in that discussion?

An example of social dominance:
Hurting the people who need to get hurt.
#125 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Punch a Nazi.

#133 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-05 11:00 AM | Reply

"No thanks, it will just make the tuition rise even more. ...."

More like No thanks, it will just make the my taxes rise even more. ....

But I wasn't promoting it, or suggesting it. I was simply answering the question "Where is the money coming from?"

Which, coincidentally, was NEVER asked regarding the Trump Tax Code giveaways.

#134 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 11:04 AM | Reply

Federal and state grants paid for my last 2 years of school. Since then I've paid many more times in taxes relative to their initial layout, and many many more times what they'd have made from my taxes did I not finish school. These things pay for themselves over time.

#135 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-09-05 11:09 AM | Reply

"These things pay for themselves over time."

Worth repeating.

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
~Derek Bok

#136 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Repeal the Trump Tax Code. That's almost $300 billion a year, since the 8yr horizon will ultimately cost taxpayers ~$2.3 Trillion.

#131 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Or stop giving $116 billioni worth of aid to the 12.5 illegal immigrants in this country (which we shouldn't be doing anyway). That will be more than enough for this program. Help Americans first. Then help the world. Charity begins at home.

#137 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 11:34 AM | Reply

"Or stop giving $116 billioni worth of aid to the 12.5 illegal immigrants in this country"

Is that the FAIR "study", that only considered one side of the equation?

#138 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 11:40 AM | Reply

"stop giving $116 billioni worth of aid to the 12.5 illegal immigrants"

Even, say, refusing to vaccinate them?

#139 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 11:41 AM | Reply

"($116 Billion annually) will be more than enough for this program."

Not based on your math, which starts at $44billion, then $88billion, then $132billion, then $176billion annually. And that's assuming they only pay for new students, not current ones. If the latter, it's $176billion/year from the start.... Either way, over an 8-or-10 year period, it's more than $116billion/year.

Your claim cutting off all aid to illegal immigrants would be "more than enough" for this program is incorrect.

#140 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 11:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Not based on your math, which starts at $44billion, then $88billion, then $132billion, then $176billion annually. "

You assume no drop outs, which is about 1/3 of students who enter college.

But make whatever erroneous assumptions you want Danforth (you frequently do), the $116 billion spent on illegal immigrants should go to Americans and would go a long way -- if not all the way -- to paying for a "free" college system in the US.

#141 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 11:57 AM | Reply

^ forgoet the citation. Forgive the incorrect numbers, Danforth. They erroneous numbers. The incompetion rate is higher than I said.

www.forbes.com

#142 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:00 PM | Reply

"You assume no drop outs, which is about 1/3 of students who enter college."

You mentioned no drop outs in your math, when you were concerned about the costs.

"But make whatever erroneous assumptions you want"

I was using YOUR numbers.

#143 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:04 PM | Reply

"The incompetion rate is higher than I said."

Then it would've been even more important to include that in your original numbers. You didn't.

#144 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:06 PM | Reply

The FAIR study that comes up with the $113 billion number is... very problematic.
Here's the link to the right-wing anti-immigrant propaganda so you can tell what right-wing anti-immigrant propaganda looks like:
www.fairus.org

For example, there's this little problem:

"At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. "

"and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens."

So, fully one-third of the people whose costs they're lumping in with "illegal aliens" are in fact American citizens. Also, these citizens help bump up the cost, since they're American children, who pay no taxes but use public schools.

Assuming all the American children are in public school, and public education runs ~$11,392 per year nationally, that's ~$47 billion just off the top, being spent on Americans, not illegal immigrants.

I'd be okay with waterboarding people who come up with this type of deceitful propaganda to find out what they were really thinking.

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:03 PM | Reply

#145

IOW, Republican Math strikes again.

#146 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 02:08 PM | Reply

There's also the naked racism, where citizen children of illegal aliens aren't quite considered citizens.

Strong work, Goatman.

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:21 PM | Reply

People who go to college earn more money. Maybe...

People who go to college earn more money, but you have to factor in their effort, results, and subject of study.

Just going to college isn't enough.

You have to learn what you're studying and it must be applicable to earning money.

If you cant use your education to earn a living, why should others pay for it.

#148 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-09-05 02:21 PM | Reply

"IOW, Republican Math strikes again.

#146 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

If you can prove a republican wrote the article at the link I provided, please present it. Otherwise seek help for that jerking knee. A democrat just could have easily written it.

That's an unbelievably stupid and brazen display of blind hyperpartisanism. Not that anyone doubted your hyperpartisanship or anything.

#149 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:24 PM | Reply

"If you can prove a republican wrote the article at the link I provided, please present it."

What would that change?

#150 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:34 PM | Reply

"What would that change?

#150 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Good point. Danforth will never admit he's a hyperpartisan am that his "republican math" remark was stupid.

#151 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:37 PM | Reply

"If you can prove a republican wrote the article at the link I provided, please present it."

Sorry, not going to play your "First, let's all pretend we're stupid " game.

#152 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 02:41 PM | Reply

I doubt you'll find too many who aren't right-wingers at FAIR. en.wikipedia.org

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is an anti-immigration organization in the United States.[6] The group publishes position papers, organizes events, and runs campaigns in order to influence US immigration policies. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies FAIR as a hate group with close ties to white supremacist groups.[7]

FAIR was founded in 1979 by the pro-eugenics ophthalmologist John Tanton, former historian of labor movements and director of the Center for the Study of Democratic Institutions Otis L. Graham, Jr. and Sidney Swensrud, a former chairman of Gulf Oil and former governing board member of Planned Parenthood.[8][9][10]

Tanton became leader of several anti-immigration groups and held white supremacist beliefs while he led the organization

History
The "founder of the modern immigration reform movement""John Tanton"an ophthalmologist in Petoskey, Michigan""saw a threat coming in the soaring rates of immigration" and that the "environment was threatened by overpopulation".[16]:174 Frustrated by the lack of interest of his "liberal colleagues in groups such as Planned Parenthood and the Sierra Club where he was actively engaged, he helped establish "three major national groups""FAIR, Numbers USA and the Center for Immigration Studies"to fight to reduce [legal and illegal] immigration."[17][18]

^
Sounds like Nullifidian.

#153 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:43 PM | Reply

""If you can prove a republican wrote the article at the link I provided, please present it."
Sorry, not going to play your "First, let's all pretend we're stupid " game.

POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Got it. You can't prove the party of the person who wrote the article, so my allegation is correct.

Thanks!

Better luck next time, Danforth. I'm through with you now.

#154 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:44 PM | Reply

"Got it. You can't prove the party of the person who wrote the article, so my allegation is correct."

Republican Logic (TM)

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:46 PM | Reply

"I'm through with you now."

That's what you said last time. Clearly you were lying. No doubt you're lying now.

#156 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 02:48 PM | Reply

"That's what you said last time. Clearly you were lying. No doubt you're lying now.

#156 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Probably.

Yep! I was! Another feather for danforth!

#157 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:52 PM | Reply

""Got it. You can't prove the party of the person who wrote the article, so my allegation is correct."
Republican Logic (TM)

#155 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

My allegation is correct. Danforth jerked his knee and assigned a party to a person without possibly knowing it. This is undeniable, (look at post 146) regardless of snoofy games, of which I've grown tired of.

Bye now!

#158 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:55 PM | Reply

"Republican Math" is a trope that turns out to be all too true when fact-checking right=wingers.

In this case, the right-wingers inflated the numbers by 1/3 and arguably the cost even more than that, by counting their citizen children as illegals too.

You can talk about that, or you can talk about Danforth.

Your call.

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 03:27 PM | Reply

"My allegation is correct. "

Sure, if you want to first pretend we're all stupid, and don't know FAIR from a hole in the ground.

#160 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:31 PM | Reply

"Yep! I was! Another feather "

More like another endless episode of look-at-me.

#161 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:34 PM | Reply

"Sure, if you want to first pretend we're all stupid..."

#160 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-09-05 03:31 PM |"

You mean "stupid" as in thinking no one has PGUP keys to get them to post 146? That kind of stupid? LOL

#162 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:34 PM | Reply

"In this case, the right-wingers inflated the numbers by 1/3 and arguably the cost even more than that, by counting their citizen children as illegals too"

Look out...someone will say you can't possibly know they're right-wingers...and if they are, how they vote! Ignore all that similar philosophy, same talking points, long history of FAIR's actions....PAY NO ATTENTION to all those surrounding facts!!!

#163 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:36 PM | Reply

Maybe Goatman thinks this FAIR is the often-accused-of-being-left-leaning
Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting.
Not the hard-right
Foundation for American Immigration Reform.

It would be interesting to see the former FAIR fact-check the latter FAIR, though of course the latter isn't a journalism and reporting organization, it's a propaganda machine for useful idiots who don't see a problem counting citizens along with illegals, if that's what it takes to keep America safe from the invasion of filthy disease-ridden immigrants.

#164 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 03:37 PM | Reply

"More like another endless episode of look-at-me.

#161 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-09-05 03:34 PM "

So why are your endless posts NOT "look at me"?

Must be GDS or lack of self introspection. That's the funniest thing about GDS people. They say I"m the one hijacking a thread when they did. Or they say it when they have as many posts as I do. Or they fail to apply the same standards to their own "side" as they apply to me. Welcome to GDS land, danforth. It's not a lonely place. You have lots of company and lucky you! It's an echo chamber!

#165 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:37 PM | Reply

"You mean "stupid" as in thinking no one has PGUP keys to get them to post 146?"

No, I mean stupid as in the examples in #163.

In addition, the phrase Republican Math doesn't necessarily have to come from a Republican. It's simply any time someone uses the equation One plus one = whatever my agenda requires.

You know....like you did when you first complained "free" college would cost $44 billion in the first year, and didn't bother bringing in "dropouts" into the equation until you were shown to be wrong.

#166 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:41 PM | Reply

"So why are your endless posts NOT "look at me"?"

I wasn't the one saying he was done engaging, and then engaged at the next turn.

"They say I"m the one hijacking a thread when they did"

Stop making the thread about yourself. Nobody gives AF.

"Welcome to GDS land, danforth."

I'm not the guy who said he wouldn't respond, and then responded. Sounds like DDS to me.

#167 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:43 PM | Reply

"I'm not the guy who said he wouldn't respond, and then responded. Sounds like DDS to me.

#167 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Lame deflection.

#168 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:45 PM | Reply

"counting citizens along with illegals..."

About as dishonest as you can get. And the sycophants lap it up.

Basically, FAIR believes its adherents are too stupid to know the difference, and too lazy to look up their methodology. Otherwise, why would anyone tout that kind of bullschitt math?

#169 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:46 PM | Reply

""You mean "stupid" as in thinking no one has PGUP keys to get them to post 146?"
No, I mean stupid as in the examples in #163."

My allegation referred to post 146, and you know it.

You've been hanging around snoofy and his lame deflections too long.

#170 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:47 PM | Reply

"About as dishonest as you can get."

Remember what people who live in glass houses aren't supposed to do, danforth.

#171 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:48 PM | Reply

FAIR's Errors

Merely using the correct numbers when it comes to the actual size of the illegal immigrant population, the correct tax rates, and the effect of immigrants on property values lowers the net fiscal cost by 87 percent to 97 percent, down to $15.6 billion or $3.3 billion, respectively. Below is a list of FAIR's errors and how the correct numbers affect the results: www.cato.org

"down to $15.6 billion or $3.3 billion"

Womp womp.

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 03:50 PM | Reply

Danforth

Just plonk that idiot.

Then he can sit here and fling feces at himself.

#173 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 03:50 PM | Reply

"Lame deflection."

Lame excuse. Would someone you know say "Own your words"?

#174 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:56 PM | Reply

"Just plonk that idiot."

I would, but all the threads then read like Swiss cheese.

#175 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:57 PM | Reply

"Remember what people who live in glass houses aren't supposed to do"

Oh, I remember.

Meanwhile, you're pimping bad math, and telling others they shouldn't leave out the facts they don't like.

#176 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 03:58 PM | Reply

"My allegation referred to post 146, and you know it."

And my "First, let's pretend we're all stupid" referred to #163, further fleshed out by Snoofy in #172.

#177 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 04:02 PM | Reply

"People who resort to name-calling show lack of intelligence"

www.gazettetimes.com

Then using the transitive property (if a=b and b=c, then a=c) this means that if name callers lack intelligence and right wingers lack intelligence, then name callers are right wingers.

So speaksoftly, jpw, abortedmonson, angrydad, reinheitsgebot, and their ilk are actually right wingers? Who knew?

#178 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:02 PM | Reply

Republican Logic (TM)

^
I think this has legs.

#179 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:03 PM | Reply

"And my "First, let's pretend we're all stupid" referred to #163, further fleshed out by Snoofy in #172.

#177 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

you moved the goalposts. So? The subthread started with your quote in 146. A few PGUPs and reading the posts that lead to 146 prove it.

Why can't proggies own their words?

#180 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:04 PM | Reply

"Why can't proggies own their words?"

He is owning them.
I haven't seen him back down from his claim, have you?

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:05 PM | Reply

"I haven't seen him back down from his claim, have you?

#181 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-09-05 04:05 PM "

Yes and I explained why.

I'm not taking the bait, troll

#182 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:09 PM | Reply

"I haven't seen him back down from his claim, have you?"

"Yes"

Where?
I seem him standing by his claim,
#152
#160
#166

#183 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:12 PM | Reply

"I seem him standing by his claim,
#152
#160
#166

Don't forget #184

#184 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 04:14 PM | Reply

"Don't forget #184

#184 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Or #146

#185 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:18 PM | Reply

"Or #146"

I stand by #146. I haven't wavered, despite your lie in #182 that I had.

If you want to pretend you're stupid and believe that an author from FAIR, a group full of right-wing idiots, who spout right-wing talking points and use Republican Math isn't voting for those agreeing with him, then go ahead and pretend you're stupid.

I stand by my claim the author is using bogus, agenda-driven math (aka Republican Math, as has been shown multiple times on this thread.

#186 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 04:31 PM | Reply

"I stand by #146.

POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Of course you do. You are a hyperpartisan who believes what he wants without proof of it being true.

And I suppose you stand by a "quote" you made up on another thread

hyperpartisanship and GDS sure ---- up person's brain.

#187 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:34 PM | Reply

"without proof of it being true."

The preponderance of the evidence is sufficient to rate the claim as "True."

#188 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:36 PM | Reply

I would, but all the threads then read like Swiss cheese.

#175 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-09-05 03:57 PM | REPLY

that's the problem i had.

#189 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-05 04:36 PM | Reply

"And I suppose you stand by a "quote" you made up on another thread"

I do: it wasn't a quote.

"You are a hyperpartisan who believes what he wants without proof of it being true."

What a riot, coming from the hyper-partisan who has to pretend everyone is stupid before he can make any points. Keep believing the hyper-partisans at FAIR don't vote Republican, if that's what you need to sleep at night.

#190 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 04:40 PM | Reply

that's the problem i had.

#189 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Yeah it sucks but until rcade rights the wrong of letting that jackass back in here I'll take the Swiss cheese.

#191 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 04:43 PM | Reply

If a thread looks like swiss cheese, so f---king what? Go to another thread. Another blog. Go to the Democratic Underground and enjoy your beautiful blue echo chamber where your delicate sensibilities won't be offended by contrary views. For something completely different, get off the f---king internet and get a life!

#192 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-05 04:50 PM | Reply

get off my lawn/blog!

-nulli

#193 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-05 04:54 PM | Reply

"If a thread looks like swiss cheese, so f---king what? Go to another thread. "

Seems like we've tried, and just more Swiss cheese.

"... your beautiful blue echo chamber where your delicate sensibilities won't be offended by contrary views."

Fat talk from someone who ran away when asked directly if borrowing more money from China made us MORE dependent or LESS dependent on China.

Which reminds me: now that I've got your attention...how about directly answering that direct question?

#194 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 04:54 PM | Reply

where your delicate sensibilities won't be offended by contrary views.

Hey ------, it has nothing to do with contrary views and everything to do with worthless trolling and bullschitt.

And if that's all he really has as "contrary viewpoints" then he should just sign off for good and watch grass grow. It would be a better use of his time.

For something completely different, get off the f---king internet and get a life!

#192 | Posted by nullifidian

Take your own advice. For the lover of God, take your own advice.

#195 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 08:34 PM | Reply

No one addressed my question.

The correlation brought out in the study is people who like authoritarian environments have lower emotional IQs.

People with lower emotional IQs "tended to score higher on a measure of right-wing authoritarianism and social dominance orientation".

However, in the US we are witnessing growing left-wing authoritarian attitudes and beliefs.

Isn't that implying, according to the study, liberals are currently lowering their emotional IQs as they try to use the courts, social shaming, and peer pressure to manipulate society?

#196 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-05 09:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"liberals are currently lowering their emotional IQs as they try to use the courts, social shaming, and peer pressure to manipulate society?"

Part of this thought process is that conservatives already have low emotional IQs as they try to use the courts, social shaming, and peer pressure to manipulate society, right?

#197 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 09:16 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

That's assuming the study is valid.

If the study is valid then liberals are on a downward slid.

Conservatives today's are more progressive and open minded than 20 years ago which would imply they are raising their emotional IQs.

#198 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-05 09:21 PM | Reply

in the US we are witnessing growing left-wing authoritarian attitudes and beliefs.

No you're not, drama queen.

In the US we are witnessing growing resistance from the left towards right-wing authoritarian attitudes and beliefs.

We are also witnessing civil rights movements for the LGBT community and for minorities.

Both of these are freaking out and anger conservatives who believe liberals should hide in the shadows and stay on the fringes.

#199 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 09:22 PM | Reply

"Conservatives today's are more progressive and open minded than 20 years ago"

What makes you say that?
The other day they blamed gun violence on not having prayer in school, and on video games, which is what they've been doing for 20 years.
Nothing's changed, that I see.

#200 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 09:30 PM | Reply

"The other day they blamed gun violence on ..."

"They" did, or one did?

#201 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 09:39 PM | Reply

Conservatives today's are more progressive and open minded than 20 years ago

Conservatives are more progressive than 1999? Good for them.

#202 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 10:05 PM | Reply

Conservatives today's are more progressive and open minded than 20 years ago which would imply they are raising their emotional IQs.

#198 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-05 09:21 PM | Reply

What a crock of schit. Conservatives want to take us back to the 1800's. They aren't progressive at all. Maybe progressively arrogant and full of themselves.

#203 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-05 10:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"They" did, or one did?
#201 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Donnie Dumpstershhter was the one who implied there was a correlation between violent video games and gun violence. But he's hardly the first moron from the (R)Tard party to suggest a connection.

As for lack of prayer in school. The evangelical wing of the (R)Tard party blames all of life's problems on the lack of Jesus in schools.

#204 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 10:12 PM | Reply

"What a crock of schit. Conservatives want to take us back to the 1800's. They aren't progressive at all. Maybe progressively arrogant and full of themselves.

#203 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR "

Do you ever do anything but knee-jerk posts? I remember back when you were Larry, that's all you ever did. Literally, ALL you ever did.

#205 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 10:12 PM | Reply

"Donnie Dumpstershhter"

Is this trump? I can't keep up with all the cutesy names.

Regardless who Donnie Dumpstershhter is, to answer my question, it looks like it was one person, not "they" as snoofy said.

Thanks, clownshack.

"The evangelical wing of the (R)Tard party blames all of life's problems on the lack of Jesus in schools. "

Actually, that's a lie. But you are one of the ones famous for resorting to them when you have nothing to offer. Better to remain silent. You should learn this

#206 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 10:18 PM | Reply

As for lack of prayer in school. The evangelical wing of the (R)Tard party blames all of life's problems on the lack of Jesus in schools.
POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-09-05 10:12 PM | REPLY

I used to pray in school before reaching the assistant principal's office. It did no good because I received a Saturday Detention anyways.

#207 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-05 10:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Regardless who Donnie Dumpstershhter is,

You're not too bright. But not a surprise.

to answer my question, it looks like it was one person, not "they" as snoofy said.

When Trump says something, it's usually a "they", especially since the NRA wrote his speech for him.

Also, considering they've been blaming violent video games for gun violence since columbine, it's a slew of (R)Tards who blame everything they can on anything but the actual cause.

Actually, that's a lie.

Actually. It's not.

#208 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 11:02 PM | Reply

to answer my question, it looks like it was one person, not "they" as snoofy said.

Let me guess, goatshart is suddenly taking issue with broad brush strokes because it paints his stupid --- party in a poor light?

#209 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 11:17 PM | Reply

"Let me guess, goatshart is suddenly taking issue with broad brush strokes because it paints his stupid --- party in a poor light?

#209 | POSTED BY JPW :

Oh, look jpwalexandriteamericanunitytwinpac is again addressing a peron they claimed to have plonked.

LOL

#210 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 11:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Actually. It's not.
#208 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Actually it is.....

#211 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-05 11:31 PM | Reply

"Actually it is....."

Actually, it's not.

From Columbine:
thelede.blogs.nytimes.com

From two days ago:
www.comicsands.com

You're turn, Mackris. Prove you're not a bald-faced liar, or a clueless nincompoop.

#212 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 11:58 PM | Reply

"You're turn, Mackris. Prove you're not a bald-faced liar, or a clueless nincompoop.

#212 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Prove you're not.

#213 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-06 12:05 AM | Reply

"You're turn, Mackris. Prove you're not a bald-faced liar, or a clueless nincompoop.
#212 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Prove you're not.
#213 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Everyone already knows Goat is a bald faced liar.

#214 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-06 12:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

goatshart is suddenly...

...Stunned to hear Republicans are blaming mass shootings on video games and lack of prayer in schools.

Apparently the GOP would never make such a statement.

Even if such a thing was said, he's sure it was by only one guy. So. You definitely can't claim they gop said anything.

Also, he's not a Republican.

He needs everyone to believe that.

#215 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-06 12:12 AM | Reply

"Prove you're not."

Throw a rock at a pack of mongrels, the one who yelps is the one who got hit.

#216 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-06 12:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Actually it is.....
#211 | POSTED BY A MATTRESS

Careful! Nulli's Mattress has escaped!!

#217 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-06 12:13 AM | Reply

"Everyone already knows Goat is a bald faced liar.

#214 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

Gotta love it when someone uses the lamest of all logical fallacies: argumentum ad populum.

#218 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-06 12:21 AM | Reply

Throw a rock at a pack of mongrels, the one who yelps is the one who got hit.

#216 | Posted by Danforth

All he needs is for his fellow whiny liar Nullischittian to swoop in to his defense and he's all warm and fuzzy inside.

He's too dim to realize this, though, just as he's too dim to realize I can figure out what he's saying by reading C&Ps of his shartposts and, in general, assuming that the gaping holes in the thread that people are lambasting are his work.

#219 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-06 12:31 AM | Reply

Gotta love it
#218 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

I really do.

#220 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-06 01:19 AM | Reply

Laura,

"Conservatives want to take us back to the 1800's."

You need to read a better grade of material.

#221 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-09-06 07:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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