Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, September 04, 2019

Migrant children who were separated from their parents at the US-Mexico border last year have suffered post-traumatic stress and other serious mental health problems, according to a government watchdog report, the Associated Press reported on Wednesday.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

but but but, china!

or some vegan in perth!

so there

----- the DR know-it-alls

#1 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-09-04 02:40 PM | Reply

It's unbelievable that parents bring their children into an environment where they know this may happen. Don't Hondurans love their children?

#2 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 02:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"American who don't like trump should just leave"
"People fleeing violence and stuff in their home country should just stay where they are"
This is the reasoning of today's ------- conservative" trumper

Inverted morals
And Brain Damage

#3 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-09-04 03:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Children killed by illegal immigrants are dead.

#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-04 03:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's unbelievable that parents bring their children into an environment where they know this may happen."

Why, is something bad happening?

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:13 PM | Reply

"Children killed by illegal immigrants are dead."

Relevance?
Is this some kind of a "two wrongs make a right" thing?
???

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:14 PM | Reply

Children killed ... are dead.
#4 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

So, when a child is killed, it's dead?

Thanks for sharing Mattress. I'm sure your handlers will be along shortly.

#7 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 03:21 PM | Reply

"Why, is something bad happening?

#5 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-09-04 03:13 PM "

You don't keep up with your party's talking points? You don't read the threads here where your ilk claims horrible things are happening at the detention centers.

I believe you do know, but once again you are pulling your stupid snoofy question thing and mega-trolling.

This conversation is over.

#8 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 03:21 PM | Reply

It's unbelievable that parents bring their children into an environment where they know this may happen.
#2 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

You have to assume the alternative is worse.

#9 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 03:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This conversation is over."

It never started.
You're not capable.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

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"You don't read the threads here where your ilk claims horrible things are happening at the detention centers."

Are the claims true?
Because if they are, Trump should stop doing those horrible things at the detention centers!

Sadly, Goatman doesn't think that Trump should stop doing those horrible things at the detention centers.
Even as he writes 'It's unbelievable that parents bring their children into an environment where they know this may happen."

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:29 PM | Reply

"You have to assume the alternative is worse.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

I make no assumptions. I deal with facts.

But even if they are worse, they must have it better at the U detention centers. So what's the problem?

#12 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 03:35 PM | Reply

"So what's the problem?"

The problem is "an environment where they know this may happen."

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 03:47 PM | Reply

So what's the problem?
#12 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

If you don't know what the problem is, then you're ignorant of the subject, therefore, there's no reason for a discussion.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-04 04:34 PM | Reply

"If you don't know what the problem is,"

Someone going from one environment to a better one? Nope, I don't see a problem. Someone bringing their kids into an environment they know is toxic? yes, there is a problem. And it lies with the parents of those kids.

#15 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 04:36 PM | Reply

"The separations have been widely criticised, and children's health advocates have said the kids likely suffered trauma. A second report by the watchdog, also released on Wednesday, found that thousands of childcare workers were given direct access to migrant children before completing required background and fingerprint checks."

"Nope, I don't see a problem."
--Goatman

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 04:40 PM | Reply

"Someone bringing their kids into an environment they know is toxic? yes, there is a problem."
--Goatman

"Nope, I don't see a problem."
--Also Goatman

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 04:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

""Nope, I don't see a problem."
--Goatman

#16 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Actually, I said I see a problem (the parents) if kids are brougt into a known toxic environment. And you know they know. Phone, word of mouth, etc.

But since you have to lie by taking my post out of context, we're through on het another thread, troll.

Bye, now.

#18 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-04 04:44 PM | Reply

"I said I see a problem (the parents) if kids are brougt into a known toxic environment."

Trump toxified the environment into which parents bring their kids.
Predictably, you blame the parents, not the President who made it toxic.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-04 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Kids in toxic environment starts with wading into Rio Grande River.

#20 | Posted by LesWit at 2019-09-05 01:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Was the PTSD from the separation or from the 2000 mile Bataan Death March they were forced to endure first?

#21 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-09-05 06:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

All those kids are biased....they all have TDS
-usual suspects

#22 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-09-05 07:17 AM | Reply

Was the PTSD from the separation or from the 2000 mile Bataan Death March they were forced to endure first?

POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2019-09-05 06:23 AM | REPLY |

What a horribly ridiculous post.

#23 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-05 09:06 AM | Reply


What a horribly ridiculous post.

#23 | Posted by LauraMohr

Translation: "I have nothing to say as a witty comeback to this fact. Actually, I know this comment is true, but I still want to hold to my liberal talking point. And I also know this poster's comment is correct".

#24 | Posted by boaz at 2019-09-05 09:15 AM | Reply

So what's the problem?

#12 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-04 03:35 PM | REPLY |

The problem is that torturing children is not something our country should be doing. We should be taking the high ground, not trying to get so low that Guatemala is a better option

#25 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 09:16 AM | Reply

"So what's the problem?
#12 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-04 03:35 PM | REPLY |

The problem is that torturing children is not something our country should be doing. We should be taking the high ground, not trying to get so low that Guatemala is a better option

#25 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2019-09-05 09:16 AM "

We are not torturing children, so there is no problem

#26 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 10:52 AM | Reply

"We are not torturing children"

What would you call knowingly causing undue harm to a child?

I mean, I realize it's the parents' responsibility, but the new US policy is causing additional damage, and we know it. Some of the circumstances also mirror torture techniques.

What's your term for purposely causing harm to an innocent child?

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 10:58 AM | Reply

"What's your term for purposely causing harm to an innocent child?

#27 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

I would call it "puirposely causing har to an innocent child" but that's irrelevant since you clearly moved the goalposts.

How about the definition of "torture" which was the original claim:

"
torture
/trCH'r/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

verb
inflict severe pain on."

Citation needed that the US is torturing children.

#28 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 11:27 AM | Reply

So they have proven that it's worse for the children to be brought to America than it is for them to stay where they already live. And yet the parents put them through this willingly? Sounds to me like the parents are the problem and they should be locked up. Yet Liberals actually SUPPORT immigrants doing putting their children through this. Just par for the course for the Democrat party in the last 150 years.

#29 | Posted by humtake at 2019-09-05 12:00 PM | Reply

#29 | Posted by humtake

Classic Trumpist viewpoint: Someone else's bad behavior excuses ours.

Family life must be hell for you people.

#30 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:04 PM | Reply

#29 | Posted by humtake

If I'm running from a gang, I'm taking my children with me.

#31 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:05 PM | Reply

#29 | Posted by humtake

Isn't it interesting that Trumpist logic always seems to defend every stupid and evil thing Trump comes up with?

#32 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:07 PM | Reply

"Classic Trumpist viewpoint: Someone else's bad behavior excuses ours.
Family life must be hell for you people.

#30 | POSTED BY ZED "

Classic TDS viewpoint: Don't focus on the root cause. Focus on whatever it is that makes Trump look bad.

BTW, the child separation policy, which had been going on for years, was ended a year ago last June, except in cases of sick children, children with lice, sick adults, etc.

So dont knee jerk and blame Trump. The policy no longer exists. But if you do blame Trump, don't forget to blame his predecessor who had the same policy.

And on that note, at least Trump never gave children to human traffickers as Obama did. I wonder if they have PTSD, or are just happily spending their lives as child sex slaves? Where are the tears for these children?

#33 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The kids are getting PTSD? Great! Our plan is working!"
-The Trump Administration

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 12:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

33 | Posted by goatman at

I'm always glad to describe Trump for what he is: A person who gets emotional gratification from making other people suffer.

It's a patter, it's what he does, and the Trumpist response is usually to remind me that there are other sadists in the world so why worry about him.

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:11 PM | Reply

"Isn't it interesting that Trumpist logic always seems to defend every stupid and evil thing Trump comes up with?

#32 | POSTED BY ZED "

Isn't it interesting that TDSers forget the origin of the child separation policy or any other evil thing Obama did like giving children to human traffickers?

ZED, if you are going to play the TDS games, come up with something that hasn't already been done by Obama, or at least tell us that you were as vehemently opposed to the action when Obama did it and told everyone so.

Otherwise, spare us your faux outrage and crocodile tears. It's beyond sick to use children as pawns for an outlet for your TDS.

#36 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:12 PM | Reply

"I'm always glad to describe Trump for what he is: A person who gets emotional gratification from making other people suffer."

Thank you for your very sick opinion, zed. IT just goes to show the depths of your TDS.

Or produce a link to back up your sick claim.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:13 PM | Reply

""The kids are getting PTSD? Great! Our plan is working!"
-The Trump Administration

#34 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

*yawn*

The fake quote rebuttal is SO original and profound. LOL

#38 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:14 PM | Reply

I'm afraid you're going to have to allow us our "TDS". He deserves it. You can keep trying to get him off the hook. Maybe someone will pay attention to you.

#39 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:15 PM | Reply

"Otherwise, spare us your faux outrage and crocodile tears."

Easy there.......it's free comedy.

This is what Zed has to offer us.

This is ALL Zed has to offer us.

Let him contribute

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-05 12:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Where are the tears for these children? Oh, I guess they don't deserve any since Trump didn't do it. Or maybe they don't get any since they are probably dead by now.

"Did the Obama Administration Place Immigrant Children With Human Traffickers?"

www.snopes.com

#41 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Or produce a link to back up your sick claim.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019

I refer you to observations of Trump's behavior.

#42 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Good point, Eb.

Continue please, zed.

#43 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:17 PM | Reply

This is ALL Zed has to offer us.

Let him contribute

#40 | Posted by eberly at

Thanks, EB. I respect your limitations also.

#44 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:18 PM | Reply

The fake quote rebuttal is SO original and profound. LOL
#38 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

It got you knee jerking.

Dumbest poster on the DR took my joke and responded like I was serious.

It used to be AFKABL2, now its you.

Thanks for the laughs, dummy.

My job here is done.

#45 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 12:18 PM | Reply

"I refer you to observations of Trump's behavior.

#42 | POSTED BY ZED "

OK. The Mission act which helped millions of vets, including me. Funny, I feel like he got a "emotional gratification from making other people suffer." Indeed, I am not suffering. I am doing better because of it.

COntinue with the comedy routine, zed.

#46 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:19 PM | Reply

^ ...I don't feel...

#47 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:20 PM | Reply

"verb
inflict severe pain on.
Citation needed that the US is torturing children.

So inflicting them with PSTD just isn't "severe" enough?

#48 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:21 PM | Reply

It got you knee jerking.

#45 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

Oh, so you were looking for a reaction, IOW, trolling.

Thank you for your rare display of honesty. But it's not enough for me to continue to engage a person who admits he's trolling again.

Bye, now!

#49 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:22 PM | Reply

So inflicting them with PSTD just isn't "severe" enough?

#48 | Posted by Danforth

I'm not sure they see that as a thing.

#50 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:23 PM | Reply

"#48 | Posted by Danforth
I'm not sure they see that as a thing.

#50 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2019-09-05 12:23 PM "

Just as you and danforth dont see Obama's involvement in this, not to mention his turning children over to child trafficers "as a thing".

Continue with your faux outrage comedy act.

#51 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:25 PM | Reply

Continue with your faux outrage comedy act.

#51 | Posted by goatman at

Well, EB told me I could.

#52 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:26 PM | Reply

Was the PTSD from the separation or from the 2000 mile Bataan Death March they were forced to endure first?

Good question. Perhaps the government could fund a study on the mental state of migrant children who weren't separated from their parents versus those who were.

But you aren't actually interested in knowing the answer. You're just making an argument by implication.

#53 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-05 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The problem with Trumpers' argument here is they absolve the US government for maintaining a situation that is bad for children.

If i stand on the sidewalk violently flailing my arms around, and young children walk into my arms and get hurt, they or their parents might be called "stupid" by a rightwinger but that doesn't necessarily absolve me from creating the dangerous situation in the first place.

#54 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-05 12:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Something I do see "as a thing" is using children as pawns to vent your TDS, zed.

#55 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:31 PM | Reply

"Just as you and danforth dont see Obama's involvement in this..."

Deflection Alert!

More to the point, Obama didn't separate ALL families as a default, to be seen as a deterrent. Trump did.

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:32 PM | Reply

#54 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-0

Very good.

Trumpists argue for the right not to be adults in relation to children.

Nothing dangerous about that.

#57 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:33 PM | Reply

"Well, EB told me I could.

#52 | POSTED BY ZED "

And I"m encouraging you. I like the "silent movie" part of your routine as well. You know, the part where you say nothing about Obama being complicit and giving kids to child traffickers. The old silent routines are as funny as the talkies.

#58 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:33 PM | Reply

"Was the PTSD from the separation or from the 2000 mile Bataan Death March they were forced to endure first?"

Rather insulting to compare human migration in hopes of a better life to the Bataan Death March.

#59 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

And I"m encouraging you.

#58 | Posted by goatman at 2019

Well there you have it.

#60 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:35 PM | Reply

""Just as you and danforth dont see Obama's involvement in this..."
Deflection Alert!"

No deflection. I'm just pointing out that people who make a fuss about how Trump treats the children while not saying a word about how Obama treated them really don't care about the children. They simply care about the politids and Trump bashing.

That point should have been clear with my use of the phrases "crocodile tears" and "faux outrage" and "using children as political pawnss"

Sorry this not so subtle point was lost on you, danforth.

Anyway, I've no desire to engage insincere people like you and zed any further. Weep your crocodile tears and vent your faux outrage without me. It's all about the children, you know -- well the children that were hurt by Trump. The ones hurt by Obama don't really matter, right? At least your silence on that part of the equation strongly indicates that.

Bye, now!

#61 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:37 PM | Reply

I've no desire to engage insincere people like you and zed any further.

#61 | Posted by goatman at

Pick up your toys first, before someone steps on them.

#62 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-05 12:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" I'm just pointing out that people who make a fuss about how Trump treats the children while not saying a word about how Obama treated them really don't care about the children."

Much the same way people who bring up Obama, are doing it so they don't have to talk about what is currently happening under the Trump administration. IOW, you seem to believe what Obama did was horrific, but haven't said as much about Trump, who is (admittedly) purposely doing much worse.

#63 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Anyway, I've no desire to engage insincere people like you and zed any further."

Who gives a ----?

#64 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 12:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I'm just pointing out that people who make a fuss about how Trump treats the children while not saying a word about how Obama treated them really don't care about the children

A few notes on that.

1. It has been widely reported that the Obama administration separated families sparingly, whereas the Trump administration deliberately ramped up the practice in an attempt to make life miserable for migrant families as a deterrent. I don't view those two approaches to the issue to be equal.

2. The issue was not widely reported under Obama, largely due to (1) the fact that it didn't occur frequently and was not used as a policy cudgel; and (2) rightwing media who attacked Obama for everything never bothered to look at this and report on it back then because they don't care about suffering migrant children.

3. If your focus is any indication, you would appear to care more about the perceived consistency of an anonymous online blog posters than you do about suffering children.

#65 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-05 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"3. If your focus is any indication, you would appear to care more about the perceived consistency of an anonymous online blog posters than you do about suffering children.

#65 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-09-05 12:44 PM |"

At this point,yes, since the seperation polivy ended over a year ago. So posters weepeing crocodile tears over something that is was allegedly caused by a policy that ended over a year ago and ignoring the entire equation need to be called out.

It is impossible to solve an equation when one cherry picks and uses the variables he likes, and omits the variables he doesn't like. People like Danforth and zed don't understand this. Or maybe they do and they are playing politics, not "help the children". Either way, they need to be called out.

#66 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 12:51 PM | Reply

I applaud Joe and Dan for using facts and convincing, objective arguments to make their cases. Most people would understand the points you guys are making and agree with you both.

But. Trollman is only here to blame Obama and do his best to derail the thread, turning it instead into a discussion about why the parents hate their kids, or some similar nonsense.

Trollman isn't here for any other reason than he's a bored, retired, shut in who's desperate for some attention.

#67 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 12:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"But. Trollman is only here to blame Obama "

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

Not 'blame', but to include.

As noted, you cannot solve an equation without all the variables. Maybe you didn't know this for some odd reason.

#68 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 01:04 PM | Reply

the seperation polivy ended over a year ago.

The zero tolerance policy did. Families continue to be separated under various exceptions in the executive order, and according to some those exceptions are being broadly interpreted and unfairly applied by the Trump administration.

I'll take your failure to respond to my first two points as a wholesale concession. Have a great day!

#69 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-05 01:07 PM | Reply

"Pick up your toys first, before someone steps on them.

POSTED BY ZED AT 2019-09-05 12:40 PM "

Zed, you've been stomped on so much, I don't think me stepping on you one more time is going to make a difference.

#70 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 01:07 PM | Reply

the seperation polivy ended over a year ago.
#66 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

It did? Over a year ago you say??

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS STILL SEPARATING FAMILIES OVER MINOR OFFENSES


At least 911 immigrant children have been separated from their parents at the border since June of 2018.
JUL 31, 2019


It looks like they're continuing the policy. They've just figured out different reasons as to why they're doing it.

#71 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-05 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Families continue to be separated under various exceptions in the executive order

POSGTED BY JOE"

Yes, and I noted that. Those reasons being primarily sickness, lice, threat to others, etc.

#72 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 01:09 PM | Reply

At this point,yes, since the seperation polivy ended over a year ago.

#66 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-05 12:51 PM | REPLY

The policy ended but the practice did not.

oversight.house.gov

And now Trump wants to change the rules so they can be detained FOREVER

www.usatoday.com

#73 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 01:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"It looks like they're continuing the policy. They've just figured out different reasons as to why they're doing it.

#71 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-09-05 01:09 PM"

*yawn*

If you didn't get it the first three times I mentioned it, you probaly won't get it this time either. But here goes anyway. Maybe fourth time is a charm. Yes, families may still be separated, but it's for reasons like sickness, safety of others, lice, etc.

Read it as many times as necessary because there won't be a fifth time of me explaining this.

#74 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 01:11 PM | Reply

"I'm always glad to describe Trump for what he is: A person who gets emotional gratification from making other people suffer."

There's no evidence of that. By all accounts, the little orange manchild does not like to see anything difficult, and asks his handlers to shield him from it. Since his character flaws are damning enough already, why do you need to make crap like this up? Oh yeah, for the exact same reason people are still obsessing over Obama and claiming he was a founder of ISIS. ODS and TDS are just different strains of the same disease.

#75 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-05 01:27 PM | Reply

"Yes, families may still be separated, but it's for reasons like sickness, safety of others, lice, etc."

"etc."

Sickness (which also includes lice)
Safety of others (which also still includes lice)

What other reasons?
???

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:25 PM | Reply

"It is impossible to solve an equation when one cherry picks and uses the variables he likes, and omits the variables he doesn't like. "

Truer words were never spoken.

So, will you be returning to the earlier thread about the cost of "free" college to admit you cherrypicked, and used the variables you liked, or do these rules of yours only apply to others?

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 02:25 PM | Reply

"By all accounts, the little orange manchild does not like to see anything difficult, and asks his handlers to shield him from it."

Okay, but his point still stands:

"Trump: A person who gets emotional gratification from making other people suffer."

It's not hard for Trump to make people suffer. It's easy.
All Trump has to do was put his pen to some Executive Orders.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:31 PM | Reply

The Article psmag.com : "Trump administration has separated more than 900 immigrant children, including a number of babies, from their parents at the southern border since June of 2018, despite a federal judge's order to halt family separations. The document shows that CBP often made these calls based on the parents' criminal history"678 out of the reported 911 child separations were based on allegations of criminal conduct"even if that meant only a minor traffic or disorderly conduct violation, or if there was no conviction."

Goatman: "Yes, families may still be separated, but it's for reasons like sickness, safety of others, lice, etc."

Two choices here:

1. Goatman is lying.

2. Goatman is categorizing the children being separated over allegations of criminal conduct as the "etc" part of his list of reasons.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:40 PM | Reply

"So, will you be returning to the earlier thread about the cost of "free" college to admit you cherrypicked, and used the variables you liked, or do these rules of yours only apply to others?

#77 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

I provided a link that broke down the costs that leads to the illegal's costs. The link I presumed would be acceptable since proggies often cite "The Hill", so if I cherry picked it, it was because the left seems to like that site. What variables did I omit?

#80 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:40 PM | Reply

"Two choices here:
1. Goatman is lying.
2. Goatman is categorizing the children being separated over allegations of criminal conduct as the "etc" part of his list of reasons.

#79 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-09-05 02:40 PM |"

I guess that's easier to puke out than to actually challenge the reasons the kids are being separated. Typical snoofy.

#81 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:42 PM | Reply

"the reasons the kids are being separated"

Are quoted.

"678 out of the reported 911 child separations were based on allegations of criminal conduct"even if that meant only a minor traffic or disorderly conduct violation, or if there was no conviction."

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:44 PM | Reply

Goatman: "families may still be separated, but it's for reasons like sickness, safety of others, lice, etc.""

Reality" "678 out of the reported 911 child separations were based on allegations of criminal conduct"even if that meant only a minor traffic or disorderly conduct violation, or if there was no conviction."

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 02:45 PM | Reply

Reality:

You are quoting an editorial opinion. The author, Isabela Dias is an editorial fellow of a liberal web site, not a journalistic and unbiased reporter. Where did Ms Dias get her data, I wonder?

#84 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:48 PM | Reply

And even if the data is correct, there must be reasons the lawbreakers are kept separate. I know American citizens can be separated from their children when they break the law. I would imagine non- citizens are treated even more strictly for obvious reasons.

Or maybe Trump just likes using more rooms at the border detention centers than necessary.

#85 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 02:51 PM | Reply

"You are quoting an editorial opinion."

I am quoting a court filing, that was quoted in this news story, that does not appear to be an editorial: psmag.com

"And even if the data is correct, there must be reasons the lawbreakers are kept separate."

Of course.

If the data is correct, there are two choices here:
1. Goatman is lying.
2. Goatman is categorizing the children being separated over allegations of criminal conduct as the "etc" part of his list of reasons.

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 03:31 PM | Reply

Bottom line kids are still being separated, still being detained, and Trump wants to do it with no time restrictions.

Regardless of their excuses and loopholes they use it is still happening and is still a barbaric process

#87 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 04:04 PM | Reply

It's unbelievable that parents bring their children into an environment where they know this may happen. Don't Hondurans love their children?

#2 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-04 02:47 PM | REPLY |

It's no more unbelievable than parents taking their kids with them to walmart where a gunman might shoot them in the face.

The responsibility is squarely on the gunman, not the shoppers.

The parents are not responsible for Trump's policies or the actions of the CBP

#88 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 04:10 PM | Reply

"The responsibility is squarely on the gunman, not the shoppers.
The parents are not responsible for Trump's policies or the actions of the CBP

#88 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 "

You're different than most libbies who claim that it's the gun, not the person who does the killing Kudos on that.

But there are several fallacies in your argument:

1) People don't go to live at walmart. These people are coming to the US.

2) Also, the people coming to the US must know what to expect. I doubt seriously if Maria y juan, after being treaten so badly don't send word to Flora y Pedro and tell them not to come because they area treated so horribly. So surely they must know what they are gettting themselves into. Someone who goes to walmart is not expecting to get shot.

3) And utimately, people can't leave walmart without harm after being shot. Juan y Maria can leave the detention center any time they want and go back if they think they are being treated so badly.

#89 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:17 PM | Reply

"It's no more unbelievable than parents taking their kids with them to walmart where a gunman might shoot them in the face.
The responsibility is squarely on the gunman, not the shoppers."

Some people are looking for a way to make that be WAL*MART's fault from now on, because of their new policy of not allowing open carry, rendering shoppers defenseless against armed assailants; see drudge.com

Republican Logic (TM) aside, in this analogy, that would make it Trump's fault.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:17 PM | Reply

You're different than most libbies who claim that it's the gun, not the person who does the killing Kudos on that.

#89 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-05 04:17 PM | REPLY

I don't think you want to give me kudos. I don't blame the gun or the person alone. I blame the person WITH A GUN. We can change the equation by removing the gun.

Nobody ever got shot by a person without a gun

There is no legitimate reason for anyone outside a shooting range or police and military to carry more than 5 bullets.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone other than police or military to own body armor

More guns = more crime.

#91 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 04:28 PM | Reply

And even if the data is correct, there must be reasons the lawbreakers are kept separate. I know American citizens can be separated from their children when they break the law. I would imagine non- citizens are treated even more strictly for obvious reasons.
Or maybe Trump just likes using more rooms at the border detention centers than necessary.

#85 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

There "must be reasons" and you "would imagine". Uh huh.

The reason is that Trump wants to "punish" them for coming here as a deterrent to others coming. Trump HIMSELF said that was a reason to separate families.

I would call it "puirposely causing har to an innocent child" but that's irrelevant since you clearly moved the goalposts.

#28 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

I would call it torture, by your definition. You admit it is done "purposely". And it is done for the purpose of punishing them. Though I do think there also a little of personal gratification that Republicans get out of the knowing they are punishing brown people for daring to come to THEIR country.

#92 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-09-05 04:40 PM | Reply

Also... I am shocked that the Republicans here are saying it is OK to torture children because they would get worse if they didn't come here.

The fact that people are still coming likely MEANS that they are likely worse off where they come from. That it is probably still worth it TO COME HERE AND BE TORTURED BY REPUBLICANS to get away from the horrors where they were.

But that does not make it in ANY WAY OK to gratuitously and unnecessarily inflict physical, emotional, and psychological pain on CHILDREN who come here.

Its like you got a child sex slave from a human trafficker, and continued to use them as such (for your gratuitous pleasure), but said it was OK and morally justified because you treated them better (better food, clothing, healthcare) than the human trafficker (in between all of the times you rape them of course).

I don't know who taught you your morality growing up, but they did a TERRIBLE JOB. TORTURING someone because they were worse off elsewhere is not acceptable in our society. (though, I thought the same about racism and misogyny, and the Republican party definitely proved me wrong on that one)

#93 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-09-05 04:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I am shocked that the Republicans here are saying it is OK to torture children because they would get worse if they didn't come here."

Shocked? There's really no excuse for that. You're not new here. It's one of their defining characteristics.

#94 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-09-05 04:55 PM | Reply

""I am shocked that the Republicans here are saying it is OK to torture children because they would get worse if they didn't come here."

Shocked? There's really no excuse for that. You're not new here. It's one of their defining characteristics.

#94 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE "

I had asked for proof of kids being tortured but got none. Did someone provide you with any? Nor did I see anyone -- r or d -- saying torturing of children is OK.

#95 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 05:00 PM | Reply

I had asked for proof of kids being tortured but got none. Did someone provide you with any? Nor did I see anyone -- r or d -- saying torturing of children is OK.

#95 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-05 05:00 PM | REPLY

Not being provided basic hygiene and unnecessary separation from their parents is torture.

Sleeping on cement floors is torture

Being forced to drink from toilets is torture

crooksandliars.com

#96 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 05:19 PM | Reply

" TO COME HERE AND BE TORTURED BY REPUBLICANS"

It's really hard to take someone seriously when they resort to drama queen posting.

SMH

#97 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 05:22 PM | Reply

"#96 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2019-09-05 05:19 PM "

No, torture is:

torture
/trCH'r/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

Not being given a toothbrush is not torture. Don't be such a drama queen. Post like you want someone to believe you.

#98 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 05:25 PM | Reply

I would call it "puirposely causing har to an innocent child"

So it's not torture if the victim isn't "innocent?"

Interesting out you've left yourself there.

#99 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-05 05:26 PM | Reply

"the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something"

"to force them to do or say something"

e.g. "leave the detention center any time they want and go back if they think they are being treated so badly."

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 05:28 PM | Reply

"Being forced to drink from toilets is torture
crooksandliars.com"

From your own link:

"Ed. note (Karoli): It's likely King was referring to a drinking fountain that is part of the toilet. But if he wants to brag about drinking out of toilets, who are we to complain?"

#101 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-05 05:28 PM | Reply

"Being forced to drink from toilets is torture"

This is a common bathroom fixture. This is what they were drinking from. I've used such a device myself. It was not torturous. No one drank from a toilet bowl as is the implication. DOn't post like a drama queen. Be honest.

static.grainger.com$mdmain$

#102 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 05:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Sleeping on cement floors is torture"

I iguess they didn't have room and a few months ago liberals were bitching about trump building new detention centers.

cms.qz.com

OOPS forget the last picture of kids sleeping n the floor. It was taken in 2014, so it couldn't have been torture. Remember how much you cried over it then?

#103 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 05:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Taking children from their parents, when not being done to prevent harm to the children, is torture.

And, taking children from their parents -- regardless of whether they are at risk of harm from their parents -- and placing them in cages with only concrete floors to sleep on, aluminum foil blankets to sleep under, 24 hour overhead lights on to prevent sleep, and forbidding the children from hugging each other to comfort one another, is torture.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 05:36 PM | Reply

Send the Foreign Nationals back from to their home countries and let them prosecute the parents and house and care for their own citizens.

#105 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2019-09-05 05:49 PM | Reply

"Send the Foreign Nationals back from to their home countries and let them prosecute the parents and house and care for their own citizens."

How are private prison companies going to leech taxpayer dollars if we do that, dumbass?

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 05:50 PM | Reply

"Sleeping on cement floors is torture"

Especially considering the luxury accommodations they left behind in Guatemala and Honduras.

I'll bet some of them even prayed for a cement floor when they were home.

#107 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-05 06:01 PM | Reply

How are private prison companies going to leech taxpayer dollars if we do that, dumbass?
#106 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Are you going to beat that straw man's ass, or just let him stand there?

#108 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-05 06:04 PM | Reply

"How are private prison companies going to leech taxpayer dollars if we do that, dumbass?"

Private prisons should note exist. They should be taxing you for every single person incarcerated. And yes. It will cost more for the government to do it. But it's worth it to get criminals off the street.

#109 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2019-09-05 06:08 PM | Reply

#108
Trump spins that straw into gold.
Here's how

1. Trump has increased the number of detainees to the highest ever, and also the largest number of immigrant detainees in the world. en.wikipedia.org
2. Over 60% of the detainees are in private prisons. www.freedomforimmigrants.org
3. It costs more to detain them in private prisons than State or Federal facilities. www.freedomforimmigrants.org
4. Both private and government prisons are orders of magnitude more expensive than the Alternative To Detention programs Trump has zero tolerance for.
immigrationforum.org

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 06:14 PM | Reply

"Private prisons should note exist."

Rare moment when I find myself in complete agreement with Bogey1335. Well, that one sentence at least.

"And yes. It will cost more for the government to do it."

It actually won't, and what's happening right now is proof that it doesn't.
It's a lot cheaper to keep a prisoner in State or Federal prison than it is to keep them in a for-profit detention center.

This is a cash cow program for private prison companies.

It's your everyday run of the mill GOP corporate welfare program, that takes money from the taxpayers and uses it to inflict misery on the poor and minorities. In terms of what we're getting for our tax dollars here, it costs more than the economic cost of letting illegals roam free, just like it costs us more to keep a man in prison than have him working in society and earning a living.

The fact that it trolls the libs is gravy.

Obama didn't do enough to end private prisons either. I doubt Biden would. It's a mestastasization of the for-profit cancer of the post-Reagan Republican agenda, but this tumor is a lesser evil than the real big problem we have which is an economy that leaves 4 in 5 households behind, for going on three generations now.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 08:04 PM | Reply

Obama didn't do enough to end private prisons either.

Obama did not have full control of Congress for 2 years like Trump did. Moscow Mitch effectively blocked him

#112 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-05 09:14 PM | Reply

"Obama did not have full control of Congress for 2 years like Trump did. Moscow Mitch effectively blocked him

#112 | POSTED BY HATTER5183"

His first two years in office, he did. And he would have had it longer (as the proggies claimed after the 2016 election) if he hadn't screwed up so badly. Pick up a history book.

#113 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 09:44 PM | Reply

Taking children from their parents, when not being done to prevent harm to the children, is torture.

And, taking children from their parents -- regardless of whether they are at risk of harm from their parents -- and placing them in cages with only concrete floors to sleep on, aluminum foil blankets to sleep under, 24 hour overhead lights on to prevent sleep, and forbidding the children from hugging each other to comfort one another, is torture.

#104 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-09-05 05:36 PM | REPLY | FLAG

this is one of those things that you cannot explain to a person. it's intrinsic, they either understand that giving kids ptsd is bad, or they're a sociopath.

you can't teach empathy.

#114 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-05 11:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Taking children from their parents, when not being done to prevent harm to the children, is torture."

Yeah, it happens to American citizen lawbreakers too. And it's not torture.

#115 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 11:21 PM | Reply

see? no empathy.

#116 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-05 11:22 PM | Reply

His first two years in office, he did. And he would have had it longer (as the proggies claimed after the 2016 election) if he hadn't screwed up so badly. Pick up a history book.

#113 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-05 09:44 PM | REPLY

Take your own advice. Obama had full control of congress for about 4 months.

www.ohio.com

#117 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-06 10:25 AM | Reply

Yeah, it happens to American citizen lawbreakers too. And it's not torture.

#115 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Oh... so we put kids whose parents break the law into cages? Can you provide a citation for that assertion?

Also, "illegal entry" (the crime that is committed by crossing the border illegally) is a misdemeanor. Do we take people's kids away for running a stop sign or shoplifting ($300 or less)?

The fact is that if we were treating children of Americans like this, there would be a huge outcry on both sides. But, for some reason, Republicans think it is OK to mistreat kids as long as they are from another country.

#118 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-09-06 10:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

For the record I think our entire prison system is barbaric and does nothing except turn petty criminals into hardened criminals. median prison sentence in USA is only 1.3 years (because we imprison people for a lot of relatively minor crimes) Then we release them with no job, no money, no home, and no place to go other than back where they were. The private prisons are especially bad. understaffed and openly cruel. Their business needs a constant supply of criminals. They have a strong disincentive to even attempt rehabilitation.

#119 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-06 11:00 AM | Reply

Especially considering the luxury accommodations they left behind in Guatemala and Honduras.
I'll bet some of them even prayed for a cement floor when they were home.

#107 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

This is exactly my point. Sheeple feels that mistreating children from other countries is OK as long as you mistreat them A LITTLE LESS than they would have been in their own country. His morality is apparently situational. He feels he is a moral person as long as he is just a LITTLE BIT better than the worst person out there.

I (and other liberals), OTOH, believe that we should treat people (and especially children) with dignity and respect REGARDLESS of where and what conditions they came from. My morality is based upon MYSELF. I don't care how other countries, or other people in this country, treat others. I treat people in the manner that I think is correct.

Not surprised, though, that Republicans have such low self esteem. When you base your values and morality on others (and just being a LITTLE BIT better than them), then your self worth is always at the whim of those others. Probably explains why you elected a man to lead your party who is currently screaming on twitter at people for pointing out that he was wrong about a weather forecast. If your self worth is based on others, then of course you will be a little snowflake when someone says bad things about you on the internet.

#120 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-09-06 11:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Taking children from their parents, when not being done to prevent harm to the children, is torture."

"Yeah, it happens to American citizen lawbreakers too."

I'd like to see these citizen children we take, and the camps we send citizen children to, when their citizen parents commit misdemeanors.

Please provide the information you have about them.

Thanks.

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-06 05:23 PM | Reply

"Please provide the information you have about them.
Thanks.

#121 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Their parents break the law and go to jail. Jails do not have nursery facilities, so the kids are separated from them.

You didn't know this? Or are you trolling again?

You're welcome. But next time, use google. I benevolently entertained your question this time, but next time you are on your own kiddo.

#122 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-06 05:26 PM | Reply

"so the kids are separated from them"

Are the kids detained?
Because these kids are.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-06 05:28 PM | Reply

"Are the kids detained?
Because these kids are.

#123 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Google is your friend.

Bye now, troll

#124 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-06 05:29 PM | Reply

I'd like a link, not your untrustworthy clas and assertions.

If you can't provide that, I won't believe you.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-06 05:29 PM | Reply

"Google is your friend.
Bye now, troll
#124 | POSTED BYGOATMAN"

You're unable to substantiate your assertion?

Sad. Bigly sad!

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-06 05:30 PM | Reply

"Their parents break the law and go to jail."

Actually, breaking the law, especially a misdemeanor, doesn't usually result in jail time.

www.ncsl.org

"Statutes authorize a range of penalties that can be imposed for misdemeanors. These typically include no penalty, time served, a fine with no incarceration, a sentence to probation, incarceration with no fine or a combination of incarceration and a fine. It is the court's discretion which penalty or combination of penalties to order."

"In general, statutes explicitly permit fines for misdemeanor offenses and this isoften the only penalty imposedfor these crimes. Statute generally specifies the maximum amount of fine that may be levied."

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-06 05:36 PM | Reply

"You're unable to substantiate your assertion?
Sad. Bigly sad!
#126 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

I'm unable to tolerate your stupid snoofy style trolling with questions that any idiot should know the answer to. I'm not your personal researcher.

I hope this helps.

#128 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-06 05:43 PM | Reply

#127 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Wrong. Illegal entry isn't littering or speeding.

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

www.law.cornell.edu

2 years for second entry. Many illegals have entered and been deported multiple times. They should get 5 years.

#129 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-06 05:46 PM | Reply

"Wrong. Illegal entry isn't littering or speeding.

Oh dear. Did he pull that one again? LOL I explained this to snoofy a few weeks ago. I guess he forgot. Or he's trolling. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. No one couild be so stupid as to conflate the two. So it has to be trolling.

#130 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-06 05:49 PM | Reply

"shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both"

1. That's upon conviction.
Nobody in detention has been found guilty yet.
Everybody in detention is innnocent until proven guilty.

2. The sentencing guidelines make first commiseion a misdemeanor offense.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-06 06:55 PM | Reply

In addition if a person presents themselves at the border and applies for asylum it is not even a misdemeanor. They are not avoiding inspection or misrepresenting facts. They mostly are presentung themselves at points of entry. Even if their petition for asylum is denied they have not commited a crime

#132 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-06 09:25 PM | Reply

What a horribly ridiculous post.

#23 | Posted by LauraMohr

Translation: "I have nothing to say as a witty comeback to this fact. Actually, I know this comment is true, but I still want to hold to my liberal talking point. And I also know this poster's comment is correct".

POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-09-05 09:15 AM | REPLY

Says a so called Christian.

#133 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-06 10:55 PM | Reply

"Says a so called Christian."

I don't see you disputing what he said there. Nor did your "retort" to the earlier post have any substance.

#134 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-09-07 04:34 PM | Reply

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