Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, September 05, 2019

Stocks surged more than 400 points Thursday on a double dose of positive news - plans for the US and China to meet next month in a bid to resolve their trade war and a batch of generally solid economic data.

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Developing: Trump Wins Trade War; teeth gnashed

#1 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-05 01:38 PM | Reply

To forestall the cries of Fake News from the Useful Idiots who are desperate for bad economic news, this is from the South China Morning Post:

China said it would strive to make substantial progress to resolve the trade war with the United States when the countries' negotiators resume face-to-face talks in Washington in early October, with the year-long conflict prompting private sector economists to cut their 2020 growth forecasts.

The Ministry of Commerce made the pledge after Chinese Vice-Premier Liu He and the US' Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin spoke on the phone on Thursday, their first conversation since August 13.

The ministry said both sides agreed to make concrete efforts to create positive conditions for continued dialogue.

Other Chinese officials, including Commerce Minister Zhong Shan, central bank governor Yi Gang and Ning Jizhe, deputy head of the National Development and Reform Commission, also joined the phone call.
A separate announcement by the Office of the US Trade Representative said a deputy-level meeting would be held in mid-September to "lay the groundwork for meaningful progress".

"On the basis of full preparation by the working groups of both sides, efforts striving for substantive progress will be made in the 13th round of China-US high-level economic and trade consultations in early October," ministry spokesman Gao Feng said.

While China has said it will not bow to US pressure, its economy is now feeling the full brunt of the early rounds of sanctions. China is expected to remain one of the world's fastest growing economies but its growth is forecast to slow to less than 6 per cent next year: Swiss investment bank UBS cut its 2020 growth estimate for China to just 5.5 per cent from the previous forecast of 5.8 per cent, with economists at Bank of America Merrill Lynch and Oxford Economics' head of Asia economics Louis Kuijs both trimming their estimates to 5.7 per cent. French bank BNP Paribas cut its forecast to 5.6 per cent.

When the new US tariffs are fully implemented in mid-December, almost all of China's exports to the US " around US$520 billion " will face penalty tariffs averaging more than 22 per cent, while about 70 per cent of China's imports from the US will be subject to additional tariffs of 20 per cent on average, according to calculations from UBS, which is driving down growth in China to levels not seen in over 30 years.

China-US trade war talks to resume in early October

#2 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 01:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So, they will get together and agree to return to the pre-tariff trade relationship, Trump will pretend he won, and our trade deficits with China will remain high.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 02:01 PM | Reply

... a Chinese state media outlet cited a possible "breakthrough" ...

Good.

I've been reading about ~low-level~ meetings between the two sides, and that those meetings have been ~moving in the right direction,~ but this is the first I've seen the news surface to a significant level.

It would be great to see China stop stealing our Intellectual Property, for starters.

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 02:04 PM | Reply

As we get closer to the election in 2020 it is going to put more pressure on Trump to make some sort of a deal to make him look good. It will probably be nothing but we won't realize that until well after the election.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 02:18 PM | Reply

I'm worried they will continue to cut the interest rates and leave no room for action if there is a recession.

Republicans wouldn't do that, though, so never mind...

#6 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-09-05 02:23 PM | Reply

It looks like two Senators meeting with Liu yesterday may have been what broke the impasse:

Chinese Vice-Premier Liu He has called for two visiting American lawmakers to "deepen mutual understanding", saying the year-long trade war was bad for both China and the US.

The meeting between two Republican Senators Steve Daines and David Perdue and Liu, China's top negotiator in trade talks between the countries, followed news that efforts to resume discussions this month may be faltering.

The senators also met China's top legislator Li Zhanshu, who called on US lawmakers to handle the "differences and sensitive issues" between the two countries constructively.

In the meeting on Tuesday, Liu was quoted by state news agency Xinhua as saying that "China firmly opposes the trade war, which is not conducive to China, the United States nor the world".

He expressed a hope that the two sides could deepen mutual understanding, seek common ground and properly resolve problems on the basis of equality and mutual respect.

US President Donald Trump said on Wednesday that Beijing had requested the meeting, which he said he had personally "approved".

"They absolutely had my permission, and they also spoke to [United States Trade Representative Robert] Lighthizer and [Treasury Secretary Steven] Mnuchin about the trip before they went there," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, adding that Perdue and Daines had delivered a message to Beijing that the US was "not playing games".

Trump said he had been told by the two lawmakers after the trip that "China would like to do something".
"We'll see if we can do a real deal, not a fake deal," Trump said.

#7 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 02:24 PM | Reply

Alright America. We got the guy who [didn't] write a book called 'The Art of The Deal' getting ready to make a deal.

What have the Chinese written? 'The Art Of War' or something like that?

We're golden.

#8 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-09-05 02:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 3 | Newsworthy 1

@#3 ... Trump will pretend he won, ...

Pres Trump has been all over the place regarding what, exactly, he wants out of a trade deal with China. He's never put forth any sort of strategy or policy that he wants to be measured against.

So it will be up to Pres Trump's tweets to determine how ggood of a trade deal we get.

Will it be like USMCA, which is fundamentally a re-packaged NAFTA with some changes around the fringes, and a lot of tweets to make it seem a whole lot better than it really is?

Or will it be a real and significant strategic change in trading with China that can stand on its own?

I'm hoping for the latter, but Pres Trump's history tells me to expect the former.

#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 02:39 PM | Reply

Unlike Trump Xi doesn't have to stand for reelection. He can drag his feet as long as he wants while Trump needs to look like a great negotiator. Xi can and I think will just let things drift along with no deal until Trump maneuvers himelf into a disastrous position and then Xi can make a deal with the next President.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 03:02 PM | Reply

--and then Xi can make a deal with a communist-coddling SurrenderCrat.

i0.wp.com

#11 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-05 03:08 PM | Reply

"Unlike Trump Xi doesn't have to stand for reelection. "

Nope. He just has to worry about being overthrown. China's manufacuring has shrunk 6 of the last 8 months (and shrunk all of the last 4) due to Trump's tariffs. Their food imports have fallen. Then of course there is Hong Kong.

It's not a good time in history to be a Chinese despot.

#12 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:10 PM | Reply

"--and then Xi can make a deal with a communist-coddling SurrenderCrat.
i0.wp.com"

American capitalists who manufacture in China aren't leaving China any time soon. Any deal made by the next President would be made more primarily for American capitalists than American labor.
Us leftists weren't the one's who supported sending manufacturing overseas, that was the globalists who just wanted cheap labor. Those of us who support labor unions, etc. are much less willing to sell out America than are the globalist capitalists.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 03:11 PM | Reply

I'd say Xi has far less chance of losing his job than Trump has of losing his.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 03:12 PM | Reply

--Us leftists weren't the one's who supported sending manufacturing overseas, that was the globalists who just wanted cheap labor.

Thanks, Bill Clinton!

#15 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-05 03:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"...then Xi can make a deal with the next President."
#10 | POSTED BY DANNI

You must mean, Trump. Danni's right, Xi will make a deal with Trump.

#16 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-05 03:16 PM | Reply

American capitalists who manufacture in China aren't leaving China any time soon.

Uhh, yeah they are, but they are not coming back here but going to Vietnam, Cambodia and Malaysia.

Any deal made by the next President would be made more primarily for American capitalists than American labor.

True, that ship sailed in the last 4 Administrations.

Us leftists weren't the one's who supported sending manufacturing overseas, that was the globalists who just wanted cheap labor.

Thanks Obama! (and Bush and Clinton)

#17 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 03:17 PM | Reply

--and then Xi can make a deal with a communist-coddling SurrenderCrat.
i0.wp.com
#11 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Thanks, Capitalism!

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 03:17 PM | Reply

#15

Beat me to it by 1 minute.

#19 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 03:17 PM | Reply

Thanks, Snoofy's mom!

#20 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-05 03:18 PM | Reply

It's funny how people act like capitalism doesn't enjoy broad bipartisan support.... except when it's time to bash Bill Clinton.

----, even Bernie Sanders is down with capitalism.

Y'all really drank that AEI Kool Aid.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 03:19 PM | Reply

Trump's fault

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 03:21 PM | Reply

@#15 ... --Us leftists weren't the one's who supported sending manufacturing overseas, that was the globalists who just wanted cheap labor.

Thanks, Bill Clinton! ...

You should give your thanks to the correct cause.

You should thank Capitalism's quest for ever increasing profits for the wealthy corporate owners.

The companies moved jobs overseas because the cost of production (even when shipping was taken into account) was lower.

The companies devastated vast swaths of the United States' manufacturing infrastructure, because doing so resulted in more profit for the wealthy owners.


#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 03:25 PM | Reply

"Uhh, yeah they are, but they are not coming back here but going to Vietnam, Cambodia and Malaysia."

Actaually I listened to a CEO talking about just that. China offers infrastructure those other places can't compete and their labor forces are tiny compared to China's. He said most manufacturers, with billions invested in factories in China, with trained work forces in China aren't going to be leaving China.

"Us leftists weren't the one's who supported sending manufacturing overseas, that was the globalists who just wanted cheap labor.
Thanks Obama! (and Bush and Clinton)"

And now Trump.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 03:28 PM | Reply

Clinton and Obama do have to bear some blame for watching jobs flow overseas but not doing anything about it. That's why we are looking for a progressive Democrat not a centrist Democrat, we've had those, they were Republican-lite.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 03:30 PM | Reply

Clinton and Obama do have to bear some blame for watching jobs flow overseas but not doing anything about it. That's why we are looking for a progressive Democrat not a centrist Democrat, we've had those, they were Republican-lite.

POSTED BY DANNI AT 2019-09-05 03:30 PM | REPLY

Bears repeating.

#26 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-05 03:33 PM | Reply

All i knows is if the stuff goes up in price at the Wal-Marts, I'll be like whut in thuh hay-ell hay-penned???

#27 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-09-05 03:37 PM | Reply

@#25 ... Clinton and Obama do have to bear some blame for watching jobs flow overseas but not doing anything about it. ...

I do not disagree.

I am just stating the root cause for sending jobs out of the country. If there were not more profit in doing so, it would not have been done, globalism or no globalism. It is as simple as that.


#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 03:38 PM | Reply

"If there were not more profit in doing so, it would not have been done, globalism or no globalism. It is as simple as that."

They could both have enacted tariffs just like Trump to take away the advantage of exporting jobs. Probably they should have done it pro-actively, told manufacturers that if they moved the jobs overseas then the tariff would be enacted to take away all that additional profit they were seeking.

#29 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 03:56 PM | Reply

So honest question:
Back in the good old days when we still had most of our manufacturing base located domestically, did we have high tariffs?
Were tariffs big in say, 1960, and then decrease over time, down to a level that made rampant globalization more attractive?

i can't be arsed with the googs....and i know there are so many here who've lived through it :]

#30 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-09-05 03:59 PM | Reply

"Back in the good old days when we still had most of our manufacturing base located domestically, did we have high tariffs?"

We?
GE and GM aren't us.
They're multinational corporations.
And they don't owe you jack ----.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:01 PM | Reply

Sorry, should be:
And they don't owe us jack ----.

There is no "we" in Capitalism.
There are only shareholders.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:02 PM | Reply

" can't be arsed with the googs....and i know there are so many here who've lived through it :]

#30 | POSTED BY SCHIFFERBRAINS "

I lived through the '60s and half of the '50s, but I didn't really concern myself with tariffs.

#33 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 04:08 PM | Reply

I'm asking if the United States was imposing across-the-board high tariffs on foreign imports, thus protecting corporations located here (and therefore American workers)

Or are tariffs just a periodic thing, a dust-up called a trade war.

#34 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-09-05 04:15 PM | Reply

#30

From my understanding no tariffs were not a major factor.

High shipping costs, low skill workers, and a lack of infrastructure were the major reasons to keep manufacturing in America.

#35 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-09-05 04:18 PM | Reply

#35 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR

Thanks.

So it's more accurate to say we didn't so much drop our protectionism, as much as the world became smaller etc.

#36 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-09-05 04:22 PM | Reply

"I'm asking if the United States was imposing across-the-board high tariffs on foreign imports, thus protecting corporations located here (and therefore American workers)"

No. High tariffs went out of favor after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act was widely credited with severely worsening the Great Depression, just like we learned in history class. www.britannica.com

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:22 PM | Reply

"From my understanding no tariffs were not a major factor."

IF you can eliminate the cost advantage to the consumer through tariffs they will take away the advantage of those who import goods made in China. Trumps idea isn't wrong, it's just his erratic application and the fact that for tariffs to work they really need to be enacted by Congress so that they won't be eliminated with the election of the next president. Manufacturers need certainty and Trump's way of applying tariffs offers them none.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 04:26 PM | Reply

"So it's more accurate to say we didn't so much drop our protectionism"

What "protectionism" we had was found in the tax code, which incentivized capital reinvestment.

Nowaways, for the past 40 years or so, and moreso in the past 20, the tax code incentivizes capital gains... e.g. value extraction.

I'm sure you're familiar with this: "Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

The next sentence: "Since 1996, dividends and capital gains have grown faster than wages or any other category of after-tax income." www.cia.gov

"Dividends and capital gains have grown faster than wages" tells you who our economy rewards, and from whom that value is extracted

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 04:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"No. High tariffs went out of favor after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act was widely credited with severely worsening the Great Depression, just like we learned in history class. www.britannica.com"

So, you don't need high tariffs, you just need to eliminate the advantage over American manufacturers held by those manufacturing in China, they don't need to be punitive as Trump's are just playing field leveling.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2019-09-05 04:28 PM | Reply

#36

Yes the world became smaller it started in the 60's when container shipping became a thing then over the next 50 years the cost per ton of shipping dropped close to 75%.

Not sure if you have ever been to a major port city but you should see the container ships come in. Looks like you could ship the state of Oregon in some of those.

#41 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-09-05 04:40 PM | Reply

@#29 ... They could both have enacted tariffs just like Trump to take away the advantage of exporting jobs. ...

Once again, I do not disagree.

The tariffs could have adjusted the cost structure to make the moving of jobs less profitable.

But it goes back to the profit motive that I see as the root cause. If you want to affect the behavior of corporations, look at their profit motive.

Corporations did not move jobs out of the Country because of globalism. That rationale is an after-the-fact political blame game.

Corporations moved jobs out of the Country because it resulted in more profits.

Follow the money, from the pockets of the consumers, to the profits that end up in the investment accounts of the wealthy corporate management and owners.


#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 05:06 PM | Reply

@#29 ... They could both have enacted tariffs just like Trump to take away the advantage of exporting jobs. ...

btw, an additional thought on tariffs.

In spite of what Pres Trump asserts (that China pays the tariff. China does not pay the tariff, the importers do.), they are not free of cost or consequences.

Part of the reason not to use tariffs is that they raise the cost of goods. If the cost of goods is raised, then the price the consumer pays is also raised.

Considering that most of the goods in Walmart are currently made in China, what would the ramification be of raising the price of most goods in Walmart by 20%?

#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 05:24 PM | Reply

#43

Walmart's profits go down, they find suppliers in Vietnam, etc.

#44 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 05:50 PM | Reply

#43

That will be a blow to consumers especially poor consumers.

My wife's company has started seeing invoices with a line item for tariffs and I promise every bit of that goes on the final retail price.

#45 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-09-05 06:14 PM | Reply

"If Walmart continues to grow at the same rate, in 2023 the company will spend just 3.2 percent on American-made goods." www.americanmanufacturing.org

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 06:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#44 ... Walmart's profits go down, they find suppliers in Vietnam, etc. ...

But that's not bringing jobs back to the US.

Trump's Push to Bring Back Jobs to U.S. Shows Limited Results
www.nytimes.com

...From tax cuts to relaxed regulations to tariffs, each of President Trump's economic initiatives is based on a promise: to set off a wave of investment and bring back jobs that the president says the United States has lost to foreign countries.

"We have the greatest companies anywhere in the world," Mr. Trump said at the White House recently. "They're all coming back now. They're coming back to the United States."...



#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-05 06:44 PM | Reply

"From tax cuts to relaxed regulations to tariffs, each of President Trump's economic initiatives is based on a promise: to set off a wave of investment and bring back jobs..."

Regarding investment vs. taking profits, why would anyone but an idiot expect a result diametrically opposed to the way the dial turns?

That's like turning the water to the colder side, and pretending the water will get warmer. Shock that water got cooler is just confirmation the operator didn't understand the dials he was using.

#48 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-05 06:53 PM | Reply

who are desperate for bad economic news

Yawn.

#49 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 08:40 PM | Reply

--and then Xi can make a deal with a communist-coddling SurrenderCrat.

i0.wp.com

#11 | Posted by nullifidian

You've fallen so far you don't even qualify as pathetic anymore. Pathetic is a compliment for how ridiculously low you've sunk.

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 08:43 PM | Reply

Uhh, yeah they are, but they are not coming back here but going to Vietnam, Cambodia and Malaysia.

So you're saying all the reports of companies not changing their supply lines is false?

You have evidence that companies are actually moving to said countries in response to the tariffs?

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 08:45 PM | Reply

"You've fallen so far you don't even qualify as pathetic anymore. Pathetic is a compliment for how ridiculously low you've sunk.

#50 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2019-09-05 08:43 PM "

More quality posting

#52 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-05 08:45 PM | Reply

More quality posting

#52 | Posted by goatman

I'm guessing my stalker was biting my ankles. I love killfiles! Who wants to read worthless rantings by mental midgets incapable of anything but ad hominem?

#53 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-05 08:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

*nothing but

#54 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-05 08:57 PM | Reply

#51

I have posted the links many times, Google "manufacturing leaving China" and you will see this:

About 36,700,000 results (0.52 seconds)

Producers from the U.S. and other nations who are leaving China: Tech: Apple is considering moving 15% to 30% of its manufacturing, including the latest iPhone production, from China to India.Jul 24, 2019
Trade war: Tariffs prompt companies to pull China production

www.usatoday.com story money 2019 trade-war-tariffs-...
Feedback
About Featured Snippets
Web results

More U.S. Companies Seen Leaving China After September

www.forbes.com sites kenrapoza 2019 more-us-comp...
Aug 8, 2019 - For a long time, China has been the world's low cost, low regulation, manufacturer of choice. Even though multinationals would like to keep it ...

More than 50 companies reportedly pull production out of China ...

www.cnbc.com 2019 more-than-50-companies-reportedly-...
Jul 18, 2019
The pace of companies moving production out of China is accelerating, ... more and more companies ...
You visited this page on 8/18/19.

Manufacturers Are Leaving China

fortune.com 2019 us-china-trade-war-manufacturers-leavi...
Jun 7, 2019 - Tariffs are Washington's weapon of choice in its trade war against Beijing. ... But reports suggest that some companies are choosing a third option: shifting production outside of China. ... "Businesses moving supply chains out of China long predates the current trade dispute," says ...

US Manufacturers Leaving China for Mexico | TECMA

https://www.tecma.com manufacturers-leaving-china
US Manufacturers leaving China for Mexico is a trend that is picking up velocity. Why? Benefits of near shoring are numerous and reduce costs.

China scrambles to stem manufacturing exodus as 50 ...

https://asia.nikkei.com Economy Trade-war China-scrambles-to-stem...
Jul 18, 2019 - China scrambles to stem manufacturing exodus as 50 companies leave. To counter tariff blow, government eases restrictions and offers perks.

Take your pick

#55 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 09:24 PM | Reply

I picked them all, and none show jobs leaving China and coming back here, which is what dummies who voted for Trump truly thought was going to happen.

Do you think they'll figure it out before November 2020?

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-05 09:29 PM | Reply

#56

That ship sailed long ago (and wasn't what JPW was talking about, but nice deflection anyway)

Thanks Clinton/Bush/Obama!

#57 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-05 10:33 PM | Reply

Take your pick

#55 | Posted by Rightocenter

I'll look through them. Curious how that jives with the claims of not being able to or unwilling to move operations from or remove supply lines from China.

One possibility, looking at the text you posted, is that they'll move just enough to import to the US without the tariffs while leaving the rest in place.

#58 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 10:52 PM | Reply

More quality posting

#52 | Posted by goatman

I'm guessing my stalker was biting my ankles. I love killfiles! Who wants to read worthless rantings by mental midgets incapable of anything but ad hominem?

#53 | Posted by nullifidian

The person you quoted, goatshart! (begone, stalker)

As for you, you're not worth more than being told what a retarded, miserable old hack you are.

Even when lamplighter tried to engage you in good faith about your supposedly well informed opinion (LOFL!!) on universities you gave conflicting answers then acting like a butthurt little schitt when he pointed that out to you.

You're just a miserable old --- who wants to lash out at anybody for everything.

BTW you didn't plonk me, otherwise I'd be listed on the stats page as having a plonk. Don't lie, you're hooked even on the negative attention.

#59 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-05 10:55 PM | Reply

Of those companies moving their production out of China, most were already making or planning those moves before the trade war started. They quote things like the rising cost of manufacturing in China, including rising wages. I know some, if not all, of those articles quoted above say the same thing.

They may accelerate the existing plans based on these tariffs, but it is unlikely any company is going to make billion dollar manufacturing decisions based on temporary tariffs. Getting the infrastructure in China up to the standards they needed was a decades-long process - roads, electric supply, port facilities, etc. It will take as many decades to do the same in those other countries. Ironically, I suspect part of the rising costs are due to the improved infrastructure leading to workers wanting better pay to take advantage of those improvements. Some of it also because China is being forced to implement better safety and environmental rules - think the smog in Beijing everyone was talking about during the Olympics. The health costs have been impacting their ability to continue to grow, and, as the middle class rises, they are demanding improvements to the quality of life.

#60 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2019-09-06 07:56 AM | Reply

As we get closer to the election in 2020 it is going to put more pressure on Trump to make some sort of a deal to make him look good. It will probably be nothing but we won't realize that until well after the election.
#5 | POSTED BY DANNI

Can't happen cuz you have told us all about this grand scheme.
Oh and dubya rigged the towers and coordinated with terrorists.

#61 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-09-06 09:06 AM | Reply

China has no choice. Their economy is in full meltdown and they are facing full civil unrest with the 70 year anniversary coming next month.

#62 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-09-06 11:04 AM | Reply

BTW you didn't plonk me, otherwise I'd be listed on the stats page as having a plonk. Don't lie, you're hooked even on the negative attention.
~JPW

You looked this up? Hilarious ....

#63 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-06 11:13 AM | Reply

You looked this up? Hilarious ....

#63 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

I was betting he was too chicken schitt and I was right.

#64 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-06 11:27 AM | Reply

--You looked this up? Hilarious ....

There's a bug in the killfiles that causes plonkees to show up in the recent comments thread but works as designed in individual threads. I unplonked him and then re-plonked to see if it would fix it.

#65 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-06 11:40 AM | Reply

Nice cover story.

Just admit you had to plonk me now or else you'd look like a chickenschitt hack.

#66 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-06 11:53 AM | Reply

#60

"As has been the case for several emerging Asian countries, Vietnam has followed an export-led growth model, combining trade liberalization and foreign direct investment promotion to spur exports.

Vietnam's growth has accelerated in recent years in part due to the US-China trade war, which kicked off more than nine months ago, and shows no sign of abating.

As part of the fallout, Vietnam's exports to the US rose by 28.8 percent year on year in the first quarter of 2019, making the US the largest importer of Vietnamese goods.

A steady stream of manufacturing businesses have also moved operations to Vietnam, including Foxconn, Samsung, and LG.

New manufacturing starts in Vietnam are up 212% year on year in the first quarter of 2019 with further growth expected due to increasing sanctions by the US against China."

Why Vietnam is Overtaking China as a Destination for US Export Manufacturing

China is acutely aware that Manufacturing flight, like what happened in the US since 1994, is difficult if not impossible to reverse.

#67 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-06 12:04 PM | Reply

--A steady stream of manufacturing businesses have also moved operations to Vietnam, including Foxconn, Samsung, and LG.

I like it. Redistribute Chinese economic power and wealth among as many countries as possible. It's progressive.

#68 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-06 12:11 PM | Reply

HARDYHAR

Trumps going to Win, this time

if only America would get a dollar every time one of the DR know-it-alls claim premature success

we wouldn't have a deficit the "conservatives" clamor to ignore

#69 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-09-06 12:25 PM | Reply

--Trumps going to Win, this time

Another communist-cuddling Leftist who would prefer China to win rather than America. Because Trump.

#70 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-06 12:32 PM | Reply

I don't have to beat China to succeed, stupid.

It's remarkable how the "I don't need government" crew is solely dependent of "government" leveling the playing field
Forget the fact trump hasn't been able to do anything better than OBAMA, in fact, Americans are paying more now for the same items, thanks to trump

#71 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-09-06 01:03 PM | Reply

what's impressive is the "rights" confidence that a guy who can't admit he was wrong and sloppily falsifies a document with a sharpie, is capable of outsmarting anyone

just further proof you "conservative" dweebs are Brain Damaged and incapable of learning

#72 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-09-06 01:19 PM | Reply

Thanks, Bill Clinton!

#15 | Posted by nullifidian

Thanks George HW Bush, who negotiated and signed NAFTA. Bill Clinton signed its ratification by Congress.

#73 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-09-06 06:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Do you even know what NAFTA stands for?

#74 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-07 01:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Thanks, Bill Clinton!

#15 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-09-05 03:16 PM | REPLY |

Clinton added protections for workers (That the republicans fought against) but the agreement had been hammered out by Reagan and Bush Sr before he was elected.

The House vote:
Republicans 132 yea 43 nay
Democrats 102 yea 156 nay

Senate vote:
Republicans 34 yea 10 nay
Democrats 27 yea 28 nay

Republicans created and passed NAFTA. They own it.

Republicans have pushed free trade for 40 years. Now suddenly they oppose it because Saint Don the Chosen one said so

#75 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-07 02:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#73/75

NAFTA has nothing to do with China, nitwits. Focus.

#76 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-07 02:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

WTG Mr President, show the neophytes what the power of negotiations is all about.

#77 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-09-07 06:00 PM | Reply

show the neophytes what the power of negotiations is all about.

Tanking the DOW with a stupid idea and then bring it back up by backing off the original stupid idea is "negotiating"?

#78 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-09-07 06:25 PM | Reply

"Tanking the DOW"

There was no plan to tank the DOW. WTH the matter with you?

#79 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-09-07 07:31 PM | Reply

There was no plan to tank the DOW.

I never said there was a plan. It's just what the original stupid idea caused.

Retreat from the stupid idea and you're back where you started.

This is "Winning"?

#80 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-09-07 08:25 PM | Reply

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