Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, September 10, 2019

More than half a century after its introduction, the Ford Mustang coupe remains the most popular car in its class, and has actually seen demand grow worldwide in recent years. But are motorists ready for an all-electric Mustang SUV?

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WTF is a Mustang SUV?

#1 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-09-10 02:15 PM | Reply

I don't see anything Mustang about that thing.

The 2020 Lincoln Aviator (Ford Explorer platform) has an optional hybrid package.

The standard engine produces 400 horsepower and 400 lb-ft of torque.

With the addition of the batter horsepower jumps to 495 and torque increases to a whopping 630 lb-ft of torque.

Granted, if memory serves the battery adds about 700 pounds to the vehicle, but with that increase in torque it way more than makes up for its added weight.

#2 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-09-10 02:22 PM | Reply

Does this mean the eco-hystericals will stop hating SUVs? The idea of "green SUVs" seems like a contradiction in terms.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-10 03:04 PM | Reply

-The idea of "green SUVs" seems like a contradiction in terms.

it's a conundrum. Calling it an SUV helps sell it. Calling it an SUV gets the green crowd all bothered.

Ford may have to brand it something else other than an SUV to make everyone happy.

#4 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-10 03:10 PM | Reply

Green SUV?

I'm more of a White Bronco man myself...

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-10 03:15 PM | Reply

#2 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

There is a video floating around of a Tesla 3, blowing doors off a Vette at Pocono Raceway.

Porsche as well introduced an electric beast.

Electric is the new high performance.

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-10 03:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I foresee social media posts from conservatives crashing, burning and blowing up their Fords, in order to teach the car manufacturers a lesson.

#7 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-10 03:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Calling it an SUV gets the green crowd all bothered.

And calling it electric triggers gascucks.

Perhaps this car can bring everyone together.

#8 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-10 03:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-And calling it electric triggers gascucks.

fair point. I should have said that.

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2019-09-10 03:45 PM | Reply

What a pile of garbage. Who buys Fords anyways??

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-10 03:59 PM | Reply

Advertisement

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"Green SUV"

"Jumbo shrimp"

#11 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-10 04:05 PM | Reply

"Compassionate Conservative"

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-10 04:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Military Intelligence

#13 | Posted by kudzu at 2019-09-10 04:41 PM | Reply

Honest Republicans

#14 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-10 07:35 PM | Reply

"Democratic party"

#15 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-10 07:41 PM | Reply

Q: Which of these words/phrases go together:

Mustang, electric, SUV

A: None.

#16 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-10 09:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Me want!

#17 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-09-10 11:08 PM | Reply

Q: Which of these words/phrases go together:

Mustang, electric, SUV

A: None.

#16 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Agreed.

How about these:

Mustang, V8, manual trans?

A: Yes!!!

#18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-09-10 11:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Perhaps this car can bring everyone together.

#8 | POSTED BY JOE "

That's about as likely as Burger King's "Impossible Burger" bringing vegans and meat eaters together.

#19 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-10 11:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Impossible burger.

Are these the same guys that made the Halloween burger with the black bun? I took a florescent green ---- and I thought I was dieing. Seriously.

#20 | Posted by bruceaz at 2019-09-10 11:27 PM | Reply

"I took a florescent green ---- and I thought I was dieing. Seriously.

#20 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ AT 2019-09-10 11:27 PM"

When I was in the Navy and we visited a port that presented a chance of getting malaria, we had to take quinine tablets daily. That turned your ---- green, too. It freaked me out first time I saw it, so I can empathize.

#21 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-10 11:31 PM | Reply

#18 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Only if you like to go straight!

#22 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-10 11:33 PM | Reply

"tolerant liberal"

#23 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-10 11:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What a pile of garbage. Who buys Fords anyways??
#10 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

I do ....

#24 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-10 11:35 PM | Reply

Gay.

#25 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2019-09-11 01:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Brilliant, showing off the snow tests. That's been a huge handicap for the Cali startups that only test in the wonderful SoCal weather.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 09:07 AM | Reply

Does this mean the eco-hystericals will stop hating SUVs? The idea of "green SUVs" seems like a contradiction in terms.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian

Why wouldnt it? They hate SUVs because they do extra environmental damage. This solves that. Idiot.

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 02:20 PM | Reply

Brilliant, showing off the snow tests. That's been a huge handicap for the Cali startups that only test in the wonderful SoCal weather.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Yeah that's why tesla is the best selling car in norway huh genius?

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 02:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You mean the Leaf.

Tesla still owes Norweigans snow tires among ongoing, widespread service issues, lack of parts, and paint failing inspections.

#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 04:07 PM | Reply

They hate SUVs because they do extra environmental damage. This solves that. Idiot.
#27 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I don't believe it solves it. The extra damage is in the manufacture of the SUV.

That being said, I do like the idea of electric vehicles, not because they are environmental virtue signals. But they decouples the energy creation, from the energy distribution.

Meaning now we can diversify our energy sources, mechanical, chemical, thermal, whatever is cost effective, and pollution as well. Without the need of changing the car or its infrastructure. Long live suburbia!

The electric car is the future, not because its green, but it allows us to optimize energy supplies.

#30 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-11 04:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The extra damage is in the manufacture of the SUV."

Really, manufacture is more CO2 intensive than operating life?

Can I get a link?

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-11 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-- Without the need of changing the car or its infrastructure. Long live suburbia!

That's the problem with EVs and green energy. It's not radical enough. It preserves capitalism and existing housing and transportation patterns. We must end the bourgeois, racist, heteronormative patriarchal privilege of personal car freedom and single family housing.

#32 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-11 04:52 PM | Reply

Nullifidian has become the very thing he set out to mock:
A dumb-ass.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-11 04:55 PM | Reply

You mean the Leaf.

Tesla still owes Norweigans snow tires among ongoing, widespread service issues, lack of parts, and paint failing inspections.

#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg

And yet it's still the best selling brand there. Tells you all you need to know about the cars.
electrek.co
Tesla becomes best-selling brand in Norway, pushing electric car market share to almost 50%

#34 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 05:34 PM | Reply

-- Without the need of changing the car or its infrastructure. Long live suburbia!

That's the problem with EVs and green energy. It's not radical enough. It preserves capitalism and existing housing and transportation patterns. We must end the bourgeois, racist, heteronormative patriarchal privilege of personal car freedom and single family housing.

#32 | Posted by nullifidian

YOu say so much stupid crap no one can even tell when you're joking anymore.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 05:34 PM | Reply

That being said, I do like the idea of electric vehicles, not because they are environmental virtue signals. But they decouples the energy creation, from the energy distribution.

Meaning now we can diversify our energy sources, mechanical, chemical, thermal, whatever is cost effective, and pollution as well. Without the need of changing the car or its infrastructure. Long live suburbia!

The electric car is the future, not because its green, but it allows us to optimize energy supplies.

#30 | Posted by AndreaMackris

People who whine about "virtue signaling" are usually people who have no virtue who resent looking bad in comparison to people who have virtue.

Virtue SIGNALING would be wearing a shirt that says "I drive an electric car"
Buying an elecric car is virtue HAVING - making personal choices that help other people.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 05:37 PM | Reply

"#32 | Posted by nullifidian

YOu say so much stupid crap no one can even tell when you're joking anymore.
POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-09-11 05:34 PM |"

Translation:

"I can't rebut our point"

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-11 05:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Someone get speaksoftly a towel, please. I'm being covered with flying spittle.

#38 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-11 05:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Translation:

"I can't rebut our point"

#37 | Posted by goatman

Translation: You're such a moron I can't even decipher what point you're trying to make.

#39 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 05:51 PM | Reply

Someone get speaksoftly a towel, please. I'm being covered with flying spittle.

#38 | Posted by goatman

Just gonna follow me around and try and score points with the moron gallery or can you offer anything on topic idiot?

#40 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 05:52 PM | Reply

--YOu say so much stupid crap no one can even tell when you're joking anymore.

Not my fault that environmentalist whackos sound like they are joking, but in fact I was paraphrasing some radical environmentalists.

"The Green New Deal pivots on a central lie of continued growth, promising this growth and employment whilst pretending it can magic away the environmental and humanitarian consequences. The result of this is that on all three counts " infinite growth, reliance on fossil fuels, and colonial resource extraction " the Green New Deal is unable to challenge the prevailing order. Instead, it perpetuates the capitalist paradigm and economic relationships and maintains the system leading us towards total ecological collapse."

#41 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-11 06:00 PM | Reply

Not my fault that environmentalist whackos sound like they are joking, but in fact I was paraphrasing some radical environmentalists.

"The Green New Deal pivots on a central lie of continued growth, promising this growth and employment whilst pretending it can magic away the environmental and humanitarian consequences. The result of this is that on all three counts " infinite growth, reliance on fossil fuels, and colonial resource extraction " the Green New Deal is unable to challenge the prevailing order. Instead, it perpetuates the capitalist paradigm and economic relationships and maintains the system leading us towards total ecological collapse."

#41 | Posted by nullifidian

Anyone can "paraphrase" some radicals. But acting as if that's the widespread consensus approach is a lie.

Let's see the link where your quote came from so we can laugh at your "news" sources again.

#42 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 06:06 PM | Reply

--Let's see the link where your quote came from so we can laugh at your "news" sources again.

Are you sure? It's from an environmentalist site. You won't be able to slaughter the source.

#43 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-11 06:09 PM | Reply

Are you sure? It's from an environmentalist site. You won't be able to slaughter the source.

#43 | Posted by nullifidian

So what? If you need to act like some fringe radicals represent the views of the left, you already lost.

#44 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 06:32 PM | Reply

score points with the moron gallery

You have your own gallery??!

-AbortedMoron

#45 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-09-11 06:38 PM | Reply

#44 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Perfectly respectable environmentalist site. You just don't like environmentalists criticizing your magical thinking.

www.resilience.org

#46 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-11 07:22 PM | Reply

And yet it's still the best selling brand there.

#34 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-09-11 05:34 PM | REPLY

They were when they had no competition. Trends are running away from them. They desperately need to refresh the S, but there's no CAPEX to support it. Model 3 cannibalized high ASP sales from the aged S/X platform. Lemon lawsuits plague the S for screen yellowing and "Whompy Wheel". They desperately need to shore up parts and service, but there's no CAPEX to support it. They need to ramp up R&D to meet the promises of the Deferred Revenue from FSD and other features, but they are slashing it instead. At some service centers they did what Musk did at Paypal, when things got bad, stop answering the phones...

#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 07:37 PM | Reply

Perfectly respectable environmentalist site.
www.resilience.org

#46 | Posted by nullifidian

So a site that proposes eliminating capitalism is "perfectly respectable" when it fits your needs in a debate. Good to know.

#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 07:38 PM | Reply

Tesla is a hip lifestyle brand with potential, but Kanban beats non-existent-Alien-Dreadnaught.

#49 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 07:39 PM | Reply

They were when they had no competition. Trends are running away from them. They desperately need to refresh the S, but there's no CAPEX to support it. Model 3 cannibalized high ASP sales from the aged S/X platform.

#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg

That was always the plan. Tesla's goal was never to make the most expensive luxurious electric cars, it was to prove that electric cars could be superior. The roadster led to the S/X, which led to the 3, getting more and more people into EVs. You make more money selling cheaper cars to everyone than you make selling more expensive cars to the rich. Hence why ford makes more money than ferrari.

#50 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 07:40 PM | Reply

A $120k Ford doesn't take sales from a $50k Ford model. In Tesla's case, it did, which is why the numbers are showing how bad of a plan that was. They gave up high ASP for low ASP with no benefit. They are structurally bankrupt because of it, and all current investment levels to stave off bankruptcy are a controlled deterioration of the entire company. Musk sold people on an Alien Dreadnaught more efficient than Kanban, he was empirically wrong and admitted as much. Now Tesla has to pay the price. Even spending $0 equipment depreciation, R&D, parts supply expansion, they still lose money delivering the Model 3.

#51 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 08:18 PM | Reply

Which is why the bets are on FSD. Do you believe you own a $250k asset? If it was that big of an asset, why they hell did they sell you one? They could sit on it for a year, have that easily financed, and have their own fleet. Most analysts have FSD > 10 years away.

#52 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 08:19 PM | Reply

There is a S P100D+ about to run Nurburgring. Heavily modified. That should be cool to watch. EVs need a little hype. PEV global sales are down 13% this year.

#53 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-11 08:26 PM | Reply

Which is why the bets are on FSD. Do you believe you own a $250k asset? If it was that big of an asset, why they hell did they sell you one? They could sit on it for a year, have that easily financed, and have their own fleet. Most analysts have FSD > 10 years away.

#52 | Posted by sitzkrieg

I have no expectations that autopilot will ever work to the point that my car will drive around and earn money for me. If it can, that would be great. But I just think tech guys always put too much faith in tech's capabilities and under estimate what evolution has done for the human brain.

But tesla did say that you wont be able to buy your car if you lease it because they want them back to use as robo taxis. So they think it will happen within 3 years. I think that's hilarious. But it's still an awesome tool to ASSIST regular driving that I use all the time. Driving from LA to vegas, I arrive a lot less worn out than I did in my old car.

#54 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 09:15 PM | Reply

A $120k Ford doesn't take sales from a $50k Ford model. In Tesla's case, it did, which is why the numbers are showing how bad of a plan that was. They gave up high ASP for low ASP with no benefit. They are structurally bankrupt because of it, and all current investment levels to stave off bankruptcy are a controlled deterioration of the entire company. Musk sold people on an Alien Dreadnaught more efficient than Kanban, he was empirically wrong and admitted as much. Now Tesla has to pay the price. Even spending $0 equipment depreciation, R&D, parts supply expansion, they still lose money delivering the Model 3.

#51 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Model 3 isn't just eating model S sales, it's also eating audi, bmw, mercedes, nissan, toyota, etc sales.

Elon isnt god like some tesla fanboys pretend. And his urge to go to mars is moronic. He has been wrong about a lot of things. He also built the best car I've ever driven and my favorite material possession so...

But the propaganda war against tesla is pathetic. You've got a bunch of american morons rooting against an innovative american company that employs 40k american workers all because they get their news from fossil fuel puppets, who's funders are also the ones shorting the stock to keep the company from succeeding.

Tesla's worse case scenario is some other company buys them. Tesla's aren't going anywhere though. The brand is too valuable, and all the best tech grads would rather work there than try and help GM play catchup.

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-11 09:21 PM | Reply

Does this mean the eco-hystericals will stop hating SUVs? The idea of "green SUVs" seems like a contradiction in terms.
#3 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-09-10 03:04 PM

You are at least one decade behind, dude.

I was just looking at a 2009 Saturn hybrid SUV.

Without even the inkling of a ecologically-minded direction you would never get the hybrid and no alternatives to gasoline.

As I recall, during the BushCo SUV's and trucks were encouraged to be heavier, costing more to utilize..

#56 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2019-09-11 11:30 PM | Reply

Tesla's worse case scenario is some other company buys them. Tesla's aren't going anywhere though. The brand is too valuable, and all the best tech grads would rather work there than try and help GM play catchup.

#55 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-09-11 09:21 PM | REPLY

Lots of emotion in that one. People do get invested in their cars. I get it. I dig driver assists too. However, cars are just a depreciating asset people own for an average of 4 years (Tesla owners average 3), so try to see it my a perspective of just reading the company financials and delivery reports.

Objectively, GM is massively far ahead in Self-Driving since they bought Waymo. LIDAR beats cameras. Tesla has industry worst compensation for employees. The turnover rate for executives is absolutely staggering and far beyond any startup that's ever been successful. They have $13 billion in structural debt and payments wipe out over 25% of their cash holdings. Car sales have completely failed to turn a profit and cannot with the Model 3. Even the S/X were financial failures, the only time they turned a profit it was from battery-swap credits they sold to the major manufacturers. They then cancelled the battery swap programs but kept the credits. Tesla's "tech advantage" is a marketing driven myth. If you don't believe FSD is coming, then you can't honestly believe Tesla's market cap is the same as companies moving at least 4x more vehicles and most importantly, making a profit on them.

Tesla being bought would be a best case scenario right now. The market share valuation is an opinion that is dwindling due to the company's performance. People have kicked around the idea of Toyota buying them as they had a piece of Tesla a long time ago, winding down Lexus and replacing it with Tesla as the brand name. You'd get Kanban quality luxury vehicles with great hybrid power trains and battery options. It's highly unlikely due to Tesla's heavy debt liabilities. The worst case for Tesla is Chapter 11 the same way Enron went out. A lot of people believe Musk should be in jail for securities fraud and stock manipulation, but he's glad handed by the SEC. It's an anti-corporate progressives worst nightmare.

#57 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-12 08:33 AM | Reply

Mustang SUV, my ass. It's an electric Ford Edge. My older Edge had some commonality with the Mustang already...that's probably where the authir came up with the preposterous idea.

#58 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-09-12 08:41 AM | Reply

Getting bought by a brand with a dealer network would be amazing for Tesla. All of a sudden they get what they spurned, a dealer network with billions in assets, real estate in prime locations, parts departments, trained service centers, that somebody else pays to convert/build out.

If you did buy them though you get a skateboard using an old style of lipo cell from Panasonic, who is running away from Tesla because they lose money on every battery. You get a Gigafactory with Panasonic. Cool factory, pay no attention to the $55 million Mexican Mafia theft that happened, insurance overs it (sort of). You get Gigafactory2 that makes solar cells that nobody wants, SC was a strategic wind down so Elon wouldn't look bad sold to investors as "Tesla Energy". It's being audited by NY, failed to deliver. You inherit vehicles with a 3 months parts backlog and ongoing lemon lawsuits. You inherit warranty allocations that were at least 5x under what they should have been to support the battery replacement. It's they nerf you with software to stretch out replacements. Scaling was supposed to cover up that bad strategic choice. It did not. $250 million in deferred revenue immediately gets wiped out since FSD is realistically a decade or more off.

That's a really tough sell. They'll let Tesla die and pick up anything interesting during liquidation.

#59 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-12 08:46 AM | Reply

If they weren't marketed as "green", the anti-corporatists would be running wild on Tesla with memes.

There's a quote that comes with this graph. It's: Try to spot the two quarters where the entire legal and accounting teams resigned.

#60 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-12 09:09 AM | Reply

What a pile of garbage. Who buys Fords anyways??
#10 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

I have had 3 mustangs. loved them all.

#61 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-09-12 12:24 PM | Reply

The electric car is the future, not because its green, but it allows us to optimize energy supplies.
#30 | Posted by AndreaMackris

And to us out west, 50 miles between towns. How many towns in MT, WY, NV, NM, ND, have charging stations. At freeway speeds on the flat and in 70F weather, tesla only has a range id 150 miles. Add mountains, heater, AC and that mileage drops by at least 15%. What a deal.

You people that live in large population areas where your neighbor is 10 feet away from you may get along just fine with those limitations. Not for me.

#62 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-09-12 12:31 PM | Reply

"The extra damage is in the manufacture of the SUV."
Really, manufacture is more CO2 intensive than operating life?
Can I get a link?
#31 | Posted by snoofy

If co2 is your only concern sno, you are beyond help.

#63 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-09-12 12:33 PM | Reply

So a site that proposes eliminating capitalism is "perfectly respectable" when it fits your needs in a debate. Good to know.
#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

It is for you lefties.

#64 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-09-12 12:37 PM | Reply

Without even the inkling of a ecologically-minded direction you would never get the hybrid and no alternatives to gasoline.
As I recall, during the BushCo SUV's and trucks were encouraged to be heavier, costing more to utilize..
#56 | Posted by redlightrobot

A hybrid burns gasoline.

#65 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-09-12 12:40 PM | Reply

Objectively, GM is massively far ahead in Self-Driving since they bought Waymo. LIDAR beats cameras.

#57 | Posted by sitzkrieg

So how many GM cars has GM sold with self driving capability compaired to tesla?

www.therobotreport.com

Researchers back Tesla's non-LiDAR approach to self-driving cars
"While not as anti-LiDAR as Musk, it appears researchers at Cornell University agree with his LiDAR-less approach. Using two inexpensive cameras on either side of a vehicle's windshield, Cornell researchers have discovered they can detect objects with nearly LiDAR's accuracy and at a fraction of the cost."

#66 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-09-12 02:08 PM | Reply

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