Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, September 20, 2019

The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that Trump told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky roughly eight times to work with his personal attorney, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, on the matter.

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"Nothing to see here folks.... Keep it movin'. Partisan Democrats.... Hillary lovers.... Deep state losers.... Whatever I do is always alright, everybody knows that.... Everyone is laughing in the White House....

Pooti..., can you help me out here?"

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-20 04:28 PM | Reply

Trump the Criminal.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-20 04:31 PM | Reply

Trump the Traitor.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-20 04:32 PM | Reply

Donald Trump is actively (and now openly) soliciting the aid of a foreign government to investigate/prosecute the son of his political opponent for the personal benefit of his own re-election campaign with no visible connection to the nation's interests.

Has anyone heard of something like this before, ...my memory is kinda hazy?

Mueller...? Mueller...? Seems like he was somehow relevant in an issue like this one, but I can't quite remember.............

#4 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-20 04:50 PM | Reply

Trump used the July 25 conversation with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to pressure the recently elected leader to more aggressively pursue an investigation that Trump believed would deliver potential political dirt against one of the president's political adversaries, the people said.

One source familiar with the contents of the exchange said that Trump did not raise the issue of American military and intelligence aid that had been pledged to Ukraine, indicating there was not an explicit quid pro quo in that call.

The call is part of a broader set of facts included in the whistleblower complaint that is at the center of a showdown between the executive branch and Congress, with officials in the Trump administration refusing to divulge any information about the substance of an August 12 report to the inspector general of the U.S. intelligence community.

Trump's former lawyer, Rudy Giulliani, has persistently prodded Ukrainian officials in recent months to more aggressively pursue an investigation involving Biden that Ukrainian officials had abandoned and have described as baseless. Hunter Biden served as a board member on a Ukrainian energy company while his father served as vice president.

www.washingtonpost.com

#5 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-20 04:54 PM | Reply

Would anyone object to an investigation of Hunter Biden's shady conduct, and Joe Biden's shady involvement on his son's behalf?

Why do democrats get so worked up over uncovering corruption?

#6 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-20 05:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The "request" from Trump wasn't just that Zelensky open an investigation and look into things. That would not have done much to help Trump, since multiple prosecutors and investigators had already looked into the dealings of the company where Hunter Biden worked and cleared it of wrongdoing. Instead, Trump told Zelensky to "work with [his personal lawyer Rudy] Giuliani," apparently to ensure that Ukraine would adopt the upside-down version of the story that Giuliani has been telling.

In addition to at least two trips to Ukraine focused on trying to kickstart this smear against Biden, Giuliani waylaid an official from the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office in Paris, then pressured one of Zelensky's aides in Madrid. That second meeting came shortly before Trump's call to the new president.

The Wall Street Journal's source indicated that Trump did not directly mention "a provision of foreign aid" during the call. However, Trump did say that "investigations and corruption probes ... had stymied relations" between the U.S. and Ukraine. Since Trump had placed a hold on the military aid package targeted for Ukraine at that point, this would not be a difficult sentence for Zelensky to parse.

Daily Kos

#7 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2019-09-20 05:19 PM | Reply

That's what you get when you elect a sleazy salesman as president.
He is original

#8 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-09-20 05:20 PM | Reply

Trump/Prison 2020

#9 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2019-09-20 05:36 PM | Reply

@#7 ... Instead, Trump told Zelensky to "work with [his personal lawyer Rudy] Giuliani," apparently to ensure that Ukraine would adopt the upside-down version of the story that Giuliani has been telling. ...

This is starting to get interesting...

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-09-20 06:13 PM | Reply

#10

From another thread:

Donald Trump admitted today that he's solicited a foreign government to provide him with a political benefit through the action of them actively investigating/prosecuting the domestically headquartered company affiliated with his opponent's son.

At the same time he denies doing essentially the same thing with Russia in 2016.

I'll just leave this here to ruminate over.

#46 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2019-09-20 05:23 PM

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-20 06:35 PM | Reply

On the one hand you have a whistleblower saying Trump pressured Ukraine to interfere in the US election but on the other hand you have Trump's lawyer saying Trump pressured Ukraine to interfere in the US election and I don't know who to believe.
twitter.com

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-20 06:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Here is the reason the Democrats cannot hold Trump accountable by themselves:

A few Republicans did express concerns as details emerged, but they were reluctant to criticize the president or even suggest Trump had done anything wrong.

"I think it would be wildly inappropriate for an American president to invite a foreign country's leader to get engaged in an American presidential election. That strikes me as entirely inappropriate," said Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) in a telephone interview.

But Toomey called back later to clarify: "I'm not acknowledging or alleging the president did that. I have no idea what the president said to anybody. I'm just making a general point."

On Friday, Trump went on the attack against the whistleblower, writing in a tweet that the unnamed individual was "highly partisan."

www.washingtonpost.com

Now, Sen. Toomey just created a baseline that - if crossed - would move him to rebuke the President. If the media won't do it, every Democrat should publicly ask every elected Republican representative (especially the ones publicly defending Trump today) if they think an American president should personally invite a foreign government to engage in a US presidential election. Yes or no, no hedges, no qualifications, yes or no.

If they say 'yes' as expected, now you have the threshold to force their cooperation and the relevant House committees should all set out to prove that Trump crossed this line. If proven, then what can they do but for hold him accountable? The Democrats know Trump's modus operandus now. Use it against him and force the Republicans to come along if indeed Trump can be proven to have crossed that line.

#13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-20 07:46 PM | Reply

All this while Pelosi sits on her ass doing nothing.

#14 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2019-09-21 03:37 AM | Reply

"no collusion!"

sheepleshart

#15 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-21 08:00 AM | Reply

If Biden did nothing wrong, why are he and his shilling media allies so upset? What does it matter the reason for the investigation if it can uncover corruption by the Bidens?

#16 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 08:13 AM | Reply

What does it matter the reason for the investigation if it can uncover corruption by the Bidens?

The issue isn't what Biden did or didn't do. That is the Ukraine's business, not the US'. And the Ukraine found no basis to bring charges related to the President's wild claims and dropped their investigation long ago.

The issue is that a US president put pressure on another sovereign nation to prosecute one of his chief US political rivals, something that only benefits the president himself and has zero to do with America's interests beyond how it politically helps the president.

He actively wants a foreign government to engage in an act that will have a direct effect on the US presidential election. We just went through this and Mueller wrote a report outlining that such an act is illegal under various laws and statutes.

And this time the president openly admits soliciting that foreign government to undertake an action doing just that. It couldn't be more clearer.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-21 08:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What does it matter the reason for the investigation

Hoo boy, if Trumpers are pivoting to that line they may want to examine their last 2 years of whining about the origins of the Mueller investigation.

#18 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-21 08:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What does it matter the reason for the investigation...

There is no acknowledgement of any historical chain of events with these people. They view every single issue as a one-off unrelated to anything and everything that's unquestionably happened before.

In less than 3 years, members of the Trump executive branch have racked up 89 criminal indictments, 24 convictions, and 2 (so far) have been sentenced to prison. In 8 years, Obama's EB had 0's across the board.

So of course it matters. The President's job is to protect and defend the US Constitution and act in the best interests of this nation. How does pressuring a foreign government to prosecute a US political opponent serve that charge?

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-21 08:50 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

He (Trump) actively wants a foreign government to engage in an act that will have a direct effect on the US presidential election.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2

TONY, VISITOR doesn't care. Trumpites don't care. Their position is that Donald is innocent and, when guilty, still innocent.

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 09:41 AM | Reply

He (Trump) actively wants a foreign government to engage in an act that will have a direct effect on the US presidential election.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2

Trumpites are a form of cheap-ass revolutionary who support Trump winning again by any means necessary.

They have no red lines that the man can't cross. None.

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 09:43 AM | Reply

holy smokes

#22 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-09-21 10:02 AM | Reply

How is this different than Biden threatening to withhold load guarantees if the Ukrainian prosecutor wasn't fired? He was investigating Hunter Biden's company. Also Biden is very old.

#23 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 10:07 AM | Reply

How is this different than Biden threatening to withhold load guarantees if the Ukrainian prosecutor wasn't fired?

#23 | Posted by visitor_ at 201

Rather than focus on how different, why not worry about how dangerous?

Is Donald Trump behaving dangerously?

It's one of those very simple questions that those in favor of the coming coup don't like to answer.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:09 AM | Reply

Is Donald Trump behaving in a way dangerous to the Constitution and democracy in the United States? It's a question for you, VISITOR. One to ask before I find you manning some roadblock on election night trying to figure out who doesn't like Trump.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:11 AM | Reply

Now, VISITOR. If you decided to go take a crap and can't answer that's one thing. But if you're just keeping quiet then please understand why some of us worry about people like you.

#26 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:15 AM | Reply

No I don't think it's dangerous. I don't think it's even out of the ordinary for government officials to use there power like this. It's only a problem and crisis because of TDS. Consider limiting the power of government regardless to the party in power.

#27 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 10:26 AM | Reply

No I don't think it's dangerous.

#27 | Posted by visitor_

Which really begs the question what you WOULD see as being dangerous? You may recall my recent statements that you fellows have NO red lines. If I'm wrong, then tell me what your red lines are.

#28 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:32 AM | Reply

Are you taking another crap?

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:37 AM | Reply

It would be dangerous if one of the current crop of Democrats won. Trump can give as well as he gets. Not dangerous, it's awesome.

#30 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 10:38 AM | Reply

Not dangerous, it's awesome.

#30 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

So, no red lines?

Interesting problem, isn't it? If you say yes there are lines you limit Trump's power and I suppose increase the chance for some Democrat to be president. If you say no there are no lines you demonstrate the reality of every paranoid thought people have about persons like you.

#31 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:42 AM | Reply

Let me propose a red line to you. If Donald Trump loses the election in 2020 should he actually leave office?

Dangerous or Awesome?

#32 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:44 AM | Reply

I know we're not having a conversation in any normal sense of the word but my #52 is something anyone, anyone at all, should have an opinion on.

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:48 AM | Reply

I know we're not having a conversation in any normal sense of the word but my #32 is something anyone, anyone at all, should have an opinion on.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:49 AM | Reply

I enjoy being right about people. See you at that roadblock. Be sure to come armed.

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 10:51 AM | Reply

Mimi Rocah @Mimirocah1 (Former Fed Prosecutor SDNY)

If US has legit need to investigate a US citizen with the help of a foreign government, there's a formal process through a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty filed by DOJ with aid of State Dept. That's NOT what this was. This was a political hit job through bribery & extortion.
4:36 PM - 20 Sep 2019

#36 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-09-21 10:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Which is worse, a Vice President blackmailing a foreign government to stop a criminal investigation on his coke head son promising to withhold a billion and a half of aid if they didn't fire a prosecutor who was investigating him. Or a POTUS who asks them to restart the investigation?
Biden has already admitted he did this publicly. His coke head son was kicked out of the service for drug use. A mater of public record.

#37 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-09-21 11:10 AM | Reply

Or a POTUS who asks them to restart the investigation?

#37 | Posted by docnjo at

Was that all Trump did? Ask?

Do you agree that Donald Trump is soliciting the help of foreign powers to get re-elected? Strangely like what you said he didn't do in 2016?

#38 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 11:13 AM | Reply

#37 | Posted by docnjo at

While you're here, do you have any red lines Donald Trump can't cross? In the impossible case he crosses one?

#39 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 11:14 AM | Reply

#37 | Posted by docnjo at

Any teensy-weensy itty bitty red line?

#40 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 11:16 AM | Reply

Any limits on Trump at all? Something you just never think about?

#41 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 11:18 AM | Reply

#37 | Posted by docnjo at

Just so you know, keeping quiet in this case is more damning than saying something.

#42 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 11:21 AM | Reply

So many calls for 1 administration to investigate misdoings by the previous administration have been made...as long as the previous administration is a Republican, at least.
Calls for Obama to investigate and prosecute Bush admin people for any wrongdoings.
Calls for the next administration to investigate and prosecute Trump administration people for any wrongdoings.
When an administration works to investigate potential wrong-doing by a Democratic administration, suddenly it is 'Treason'.
You guys are pathetically partisan.
Once again, working with another country to investigate potential wrong-doing by a US administration -in that country- is not wrong. It is actually the right and correct thing to do.
It does not matter that Biden is running for office. It matters what he did as a representative of the United States of America.

Sounds like many here want criminal activity to be un-investigatable if it is performed by a Democrat who then decides to run for office.

#43 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:44 AM | Reply

In 8 years, Obama's EB had 0's across the board. - #19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-21 08:50 AM

Tonyroma's chain of being unable to tell the truth remains unbroken.
David Petraeus resigned as Director of the CIA on November 9, 2012, having pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified materials, after admitting to giving them to his biographer with whom he was having a sexual relationship. He was given two-years probation and fined $100,000. See Petraeus scandal.
Won't it be a wonder to see truth from tonyroma someday?

#44 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:51 AM | Reply

link was stripped:
en.wikipedia.org

#45 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:51 AM | Reply

every Democrat should publicly ask every elected Republican representative (especially the ones publicly defending Trump today) if they think an American president should personally invite a foreign government to engage in a US presidential election. Yes or no, no hedges, no qualifications, yes or no. - #13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-20 07:46 PM

Any everyone so questioned should just reply 'I don't believe that running for public office makes you immune to investigation of your past wrongdoings.'

#46 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:54 AM | Reply

"So many calls for 1 administration to investigate misdoings by the previous administration have been made...as long as the previous administration is a Republican, at least."

Rebuttal: "Lock Her Up!"

#47 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 11:58 AM | Reply

Trump's pivot to "so what if i did, investigate Biden anyway," along with the repetition by his sycophants in this thread, makes it obvious how dangerous of a game Dems are playing by considering Biden for the nomination. Not only is he a boring corporate-owned centrist just like his predecessor who already lost to the racist game show host; Trump has now locked in on whatever he plans to obsess over to generate negative media coverage against Biden and it appears the media is ready to play along.

Dems need to nominate a candidate who (1) has new ideas and (2) does not have a history that can be twisted by the most scandalous president in US history to deflect from his own scandals. I'm not positive who that is yet, but i know for a fact it isn't Joe Biden.

#48 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-21 12:02 PM | Reply

"...does not have a history that can be twisted "

That doesn't matter; they'll twist it anyway.

Did you ever wonder how every Dem nominee in our lifetimes was "the most liberal"? That's because Rs re=calibrated "Liberal" to mean whatever that candidate had voted for. Voila! The most liberal candidate EVAH.

Republicans will twist and lie regardless.

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Once again, working with another country to investigate potential wrong-doing by a US administration -in that country- is not wrong"

Yeah, man. But's not what Trump did.

He put the screws on a foreign power to elicit something to his personal political advantage.

He's looking for foreign help to get elected. Something people like you said he was horribly and falsely accused of in 2016 and now say is perfectly fine for him to do.

#50 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Republicans will twist and lie regardless.

#49 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

You are half correct.

#51 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 12:12 PM | Reply

'I don't believe that running for public office makes you immune to investigation of your past wrongdoings.'

#46 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:54 AM | R

What red line do you place on Trump's behavior?

#52 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:13 PM | Reply

'I don't believe that running for public office makes you immune to investigation of your past wrongdoings.'

#46 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:54 AM | R

You do understand that Trump is currently arguing his alleged crimes CAN'T be investigated?

#53 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:14 PM | Reply

Rebuttal: "Lock Her Up!" - #47 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 11:58 AM
I haven't seen a lot of calls to "Lock Her Up!" here on the retort.
If you guys have been pushing for that, it is news for me.

#54 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:16 PM | Reply

"You do understand that Trump is currently arguing his alleged crimes CAN'T be investigated?

#53 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2019-09-21 12:14 PM |"

My red line is a is placed in a lot less forgiving position than the democrats. Unlike them, I would choose to impeach.

#55 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 12:17 PM | Reply

#54 | Posted by Avigdore at 201

The silly humor of the hypocrite.

#56 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:17 PM | Reply

What red line do you place on Trump's behavior? - #52 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:13 PM
Legality.

You do understand that Trump is currently arguing his alleged crimes CAN'T be investigated? - #53 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:14 PM
Yeah, Trump's lawyers argued that. I disagree with them on it as well. Don't you?

#57 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:17 PM | Reply

"I haven't seen a lot of calls to "Lock Her Up!" here on the retort."

You must've missed Trump's rallies as well. But you've got two sets of barometers, we already know that. You'll claim only Dems do it, and then pretend and punt when you're shown to be a hypocrite.

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:18 PM | Reply

Unlike them, I would choose to impeach.

#55 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thank you, GOAT. Let's see if AVIGDORE has any limits.

#59 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:18 PM | Reply

Yeah, Trump's lawyers argued that.

#57 | Posted by Avigdore at 2

TRUMP argues that.

#60 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:19 PM | Reply

The silly humor of the hypocrite. - #56 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:17 PM

Except there's nothing hypocritical about my stance:
Investigation of the previous administration's wrong doing is ok.

The only hypocrisy is the group saying 'Investigate THEIRS = ok, investigate OURS = Treason'

#61 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:20 PM | Reply

"My red line is a is placed in a lot less forgiving position than the democrats. Unlike them, I would choose to impeach."

Another keystroke warrior who will tell Dems what to do, but is silent toward Republicans.

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:20 PM | Reply

TRUMP argues that. - #60 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:19 PM |
I haven't seen that. Wouldn't surprise me. I still disagree with it, don't you?

#63 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:20 PM | Reply

"The only hypocrisy is the group saying 'Investigate THEIRS = ok, investigate OURS = Treason'"

Be sure to fold your tinfoil hat carefully when you're done.

#64 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:21 PM | Reply

Except there's nothing hypocritical about my stance:

#61 | Posted by Avigdore at 2

Is it equally bad for Trump to ask for foreign help to get elected in 2020 as in 2016?

#65 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:22 PM | Reply

Must be a hard question.

#66 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:25 PM | Reply

Is it equally bad for Trump to ask for foreign help to get elected in 2020 as in 2016? - #65 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:22 PM

I don't believe that Trump asked for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020.
I believe that an executive branch member sought to coordinate with an ally to investigate activities, possibly wrongdoing, by a US citizen who happens to be running for political office. They should make a dossier of what they discover.

#67 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:26 PM | Reply

Must be a hard question. - #66 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:25 PM
Just took some effort to make sure that the point didn't go over your head.

#68 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:27 PM | Reply

"I don't believe that Trump asked for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020. "

Be sure to get ALL the sand out of your ears when you're done.

#69 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:27 PM | Reply

I don't believe that Trump asked for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020.

#67 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-

Everyone on this blog heard him ask. There are videos.

But perhaps I used the wrong word. Is it just as wrong for Trump to ACCEPT help from a foreign power to get elected in 2020 as it was in 2016?

#70 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:28 PM | Reply

Everyone on this blog heard him ask. There are videos. - #70 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:28 PM |
Perhaps you need to point me to the video of Trump asking for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020.

#71 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:30 PM | Reply

Just took some effort to make sure that the point didn't go over your head.

#68 | Posted by Avigdore at

Thanks.

I assume you're straining for a response yet again?

#72 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:31 PM | Reply

I already responded to your 70 with my 71. How inept are you?

#73 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:33 PM | Reply

Perhaps you need to point me to the video of Trump asking for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020.

#71 | Posted by Avigdore at 2

The video is from 2016, which you know as you've seen it.

In 2020 we have whistleblower Trump won't let testify. You on board for the man coming forward under oath?

#74 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:33 PM | Reply

How inept are you?

#73 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:33 PM

Let's figure that out. Did Trump accept help from Russia in 2016 to get elected?

#75 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:34 PM | Reply

I don't believe that Trump asked for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020. - #67 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-
Everyone on this blog heard him ask. There are videos. - #70 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:28 PM 2019-09-21 12:28 PM

Wait, we're not going to gloss over this. Why are you lying about videos of Trump asking for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020?

#76 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:35 PM | Reply

How inept are you?

#73 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:33 PM

Let's figure that out. Is Trump surpressing whistleblower testimony?

#77 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:36 PM | Reply

Why are you lying about videos of Trump asking for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020?

#76 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:35

The video is from 2016, which you know as you've seen it.
In 2020 we have whistleblower Trump won't let testify. You on board for the man coming forward under oath?

#74 | Posted by Zed a

How inept are you?

#78 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:37 PM | Reply

Did Trump accept help from Russia in 2016 to get elected? - #75 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:34 PM
Trump accepted the fact that Russia was working towards helping Trump defeat Clinton, yes.

Heading off to birthday lunch. I expect to see an answer as to why you were pushing a lie when I get back.

#79 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:39 PM | Reply

I expect to see an answer as to why you were pushing a lie when I get back.

#79 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019

You never studied.

#80 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:40 PM | Reply

I specified that I hadn't seen any evidence for a request in 2020.
You then lied that there was video.
I quoted it above.
You continue to deny that?

#81 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:41 PM | Reply

women and there '5 more minutes'

#82 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:42 PM | Reply

"I specified that I hadn't seen any evidence for a request in 2020."

Have you heard about any requests? Read any reporting on the subject? Or is your salient word "seen", and you'll now play semantic games ad naseum?

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I specified that I hadn't seen any evidence for a request in 2020.
You then lied that there was video.
I quoted it above.
You continue to deny that?
#81 | Posted by Avigdore a

You're being stupid.

#84 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:44 PM | Reply

Why are you lying about videos of Trump asking for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020?
#76 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 12:35
The video is from 2016, which you know as you've seen it.
In 2020 we have whistleblower Trump won't let testify. You on board for the man coming forward under oath?
#74 | Posted by Zed a
How inept are you?

#85 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:44 PM | Reply

Here's the Trump supporter's logic in two sentences:

It's always acceptable for Trump to pursue every avenue available (even extralegal ones) in order to uncover proof that his political opponents did something against the law or improper.

The ends justify the means because whatever Trump does will never be considered worse than what he accuses his opponents of doing and anyone pointing out that Trump's wrong has to be a political ally of his opponent - completely ignoring that motive is not a valid defense for breaking the black letter rules of the law.

#86 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-21 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why can't Trumpers just admit that he openly solicits help from foreign countries in our elections? Even "help" that might be a crime against an American, like hacking their email? He does this ---- right out in the open and you people don't believe your own eyes and ears. It's really bizarre.

#87 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-21 01:18 PM | Reply

Reopen the investigation Biden blackmailed the Ukraine to close.

#88 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 03:21 PM | Reply

Is it equally bad for Trump to ask for foreign help to get elected in 2020 as in 2016? - #65 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:22 PM

While enjoying my birthday lunch (Peter Chang's - it's fantastic) I realized that I had another problem with the premise of your question.
I can't think that Trump asked for foreign help to get elected in 2016.

First, we all know that the 31k missing emails that were deleted were nothing more than yoga emails, wedding planning stuff and general person emails. I trust her when she said that those were personal emails and not in any way work related, don't you?
So, Trump admitted that the media would reward Russia if it discovered those emails, believing as he did that the media was in the tank for Clinton & would certainly have rewarded anyone who could prove that those innocuous and innocent emails were precisely as innocuous and innocent as portrayed by Sec. Clinton.
I can't imagine that Russia releasing a bunch of Yoga and wedding planning emails, verifying Clinton's honesty, would help to get Trump elected in 2016.

#89 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 03:48 PM | Reply

In 2020 we have whistleblower Trump won't let testify. You on board for the man coming forward under oath? - #85 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-21 12:44 PM
I'm certainly onboard with that person coming forward if the courts determine that is the correct path forward. I understand and accept that each of two co-equal branches of government are in disagreement about coverage of a whistleblower law and exercising of executive privilege. This is not an unusual or rare occurrence in our country. As it has been resolved every time before now, the 3rd branch will weigh in and make a decision. We'll then move on with the results of their decision. If they decide that the proper path is for this whistleblower to appear under oath, then yes, I'd be 100% onboard. Wouldn't you?

Still no response about why you lied about Trump requesting foreign help on video to get elected in 2020, Zed.
I've quoted your lie.
I've pointed it out to you.
You're still unwilling to walk it back or admit your mistake like an adult?

#90 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 03:53 PM | Reply

Have you heard about any requests? Read any reporting on the subject? Or is your salient word "seen", and you'll now play semantic games ad naseum? - #83 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:42 PM

I heard about Trump requesting that Ukraine reopen an investigation into wrongdoing by Vice President Biden (or maybe his son?). I don't know whether or not it is a request to assist Trump in his reelection campaign, because I don't know that the result of the investigation would be. If the investigation exonerates Vice President Biden, then I can't imagine that it would be a request which would help Trump further his political campaign. If it -did- result in evidence of wrongdoing by Vice President Biden, then I'd be hard pressed to think badly of our executive branch for trying to hold previous administrations accountable for their misdeeds.

#91 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 04:03 PM | Reply

Reopen the investigation Biden blackmailed the Ukraine to close.

#88 | POSTED BY VISITOR

False. And once again so everyone has the facts to counter Trump's bs:

1.) (W)estern governments, including the Obama administration wanted the prosecutor removed due to concerns about corruption in his own office.

2.) (T)he investigation into Burisma had already been shelved by the time Joe Biden was threatening to withhold financial aid unless Ukraine replaced its top prosecutor.

3.) Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yury Lutsenko said Burisma paid an entity connected to Hunter Biden "millions," but added, "from my point of view, a board member can be paid whatever a company decides ... they didn't violate any Ukrainian laws."

www.cnn.com

#92 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-21 04:26 PM | Reply

You think that cut'n paste doesn't damn Biden?

#93 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 04:33 PM | Reply

#90 not that it's needed but it's telling how stupid people like Jed are who still claim that at his campaign rally when Trump said Russia should find Hillary's emails he was asking for Russia to help him get elected and he would turn this country over to Russia.

#94 | Posted by fishpaw at 2019-09-22 12:07 PM | Reply

youtu.be

#95 | Posted by fishpaw at 2019-09-22 12:10 PM | Reply

You'll claim only Dems do it, and then pretend and punt when you're shown to be a hypocrite. - #58 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-09-21 12:18 PM
That's a lie.
Nothing new.
I claimed that the people I was speaking to, here on the Retort, (hence the term 'you guys') argue for Democratic administrations to investigate Republican administrations, but call 'treason' when the opposite happens.

#96 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-22 02:14 PM | Reply

My Dear Avigdore:

Trump and Trumpists are the liars. Without the lies you have nothing.

But in your specific case you're too stupid to understand what was said to you.

#97 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-22 02:37 PM | Reply

If it helps to make you feel less insufficient, Zed, I don't mind if you continue to insult me.
No skin off my back, and it's the one bright spot in your life.
We're here to help you feel better about yourself.
Because we know no one else is.

#98 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-22 02:54 PM | Reply

Biden is clearly corrupt as is the rest of that den of thieves from the Obama administration.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-09-22 03:11 PM | Reply

#98

I'm glad you're here to make me feel better, And, know what? I do.

#100 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-22 03:13 PM | Reply

Without the lies you have nothing.

Lying has been all the #TrumpBad crowd has been doing.

From "unverified source", "sources say" ... the list is endless of faux wrong doing by Trump.

Its a meme now ... you have no credibility ....

I'm glad you're here to make me feel better, And, know what? I do.
#100 | POSTED BY ZED

We all are Zed, we are here to support your dysfunction.

#101 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-22 03:42 PM | Reply

Biden is clearly corrupt as is the rest of that den of thieves from the Obama administration.

#99 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

In less than 3 years members of the Trump executive branch have racked up 89 criminal indictments, 24 convictions, and 2 (so far) have been sentenced to prison. In 8 years, Obama's executive branch had complete 0's across the board.

Remember, Trump has been President for almost 3 years and has placed 3 different persons atop the DOJ, yet not a single federal grand jury has been seated, much less has any former Obama Administration official ever been credibly implicated in criminal activity for their work inside the Administration.

Seems you're delusional.

#102 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 03:44 PM | Reply

Trump isn't just bad, he's awful. And so we've just had another week of awfulness scarcely imagined possible before he got into office.

Trump is easily the worst American president since 1860.

He's so damned bad people like you will have to support a coup to keep him power.

Trump I have completely figured out. It's why some people think he's worry a cult that's mysterious.

#103 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-22 03:49 PM | Reply

From "unverified source", "sources say" ... the list is endless of faux wrong doing by Trump.

What, you mean like the Trump tower meeting? The firings that were reported/predicted before they were officially released?

And what "faux wrongdoing" are you referring to? The MSM is definitely guilty of blowing many small things out of proportion.

But how many reports about Trump have turned out to be completely false?

Its a meme now ... you have no credibility ....

To idiots who are a joke, maybe. But that's why they think things like Trump is a victim of a media that falsely portray his behavior.

#104 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-22 03:51 PM | Reply

To idiots who are a joke, maybe. But that's why they think things like Trump is a victim of a media that falsely portray his behavior.

#104 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2019-09-22 03:51 PM |

He is. Here are ten items on the Russia thing alone the media had to retract. And that's just the Russia thing.

I know you pretend that by having me plonked you won't see this, but you are seeing it, we both know. You are too vain to not know if someone is talking about you.

theintercept.com

There are more falsely reported stories about Trump by the MSM that aren't Russia related. Would you like to see a partial list of those?

Never has the media been forced to retract more stories than they have with the ones they have reported about Trump. To claim there is not a media bias against him is laughable.

#105 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-22 03:59 PM | Reply

I don't believe that Trump asked for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020.
I believe that an executive branch member sought to coordinate with an ally to investigate activities, possibly wrongdoing, by a US citizen who happens to be running for political office. They should make a dossier of what they discover.
#67 | Posted by Avigdore a

www.pbs.org

#106 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-09-22 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No one said they had a dossier, this changes everything.

#107 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-22 04:27 PM | Reply

Seems you're delusional.

POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2019-09-22 03:44 PM | REPLY

You're too kind

#108 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-09-22 04:31 PM | Reply

They should make a dossier of what they discover.

#67 | Posted by Avigdore

No one said they had a dossier, this changes everything.

#107 | POSTED BY VISITOR

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why you cannot reason with imbeciles.

Reread the first comment again and see if a lightbulb goes off over your head.

Then reread the second comment and recognize its first part speaks to common sense, and its second part confirms that you don't have any.

#109 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 04:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

idiots ... think things like Trump is a victim of a media that falsely portray his behavior.
#104 | POSTED BY JPW

He is.
#105 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

You nail it, JPW.

#110 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-22 05:12 PM | Reply

I don't believe that Trump asked for help from a foreign country to get elected in 2020.
I believe that an executive branch member sought to coordinate with an ally to investigate activities, possibly wrongdoing, by a US citizen who happens to be running for political office. They should make a dossier of what they discover. 67 | Posted by Avigdore a

www.pbs.org

#106 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-09-22 04:06 PM
Any particular reason you linked to a request in 2016 to prove a point about 2020?

#111 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-22 05:49 PM | Reply

In less than 3 years members of the Trump executive branch have racked up 89 criminal indictments, 24 convictions, and 2 (so far) have been sentenced to prison. Obama's executive branch had complete 0's across the board. - #102 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 03:44 PM
It was a lie when you said it last time and it remains a lie when you say it now.
www.nytimes.com

Not that you care. You just ignore the people who point out your lies.
Stop telling lies and we'll stop point them out for you.

#112 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-22 05:58 PM | Reply

"idiots ... think things like Trump is a victim of a media that falsely portray his behavior.
#104 | POSTED BY JPW

He is.
#105 | POSTED BY GOATMAN
You nail it, JPW.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-09-22 05:12 PM "

And where is your citation to support this claim?

Oh , that's right. You don't have one.

Carry on and keep jerking that knee! LOL

#113 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-22 06:07 PM | Reply

where is your citation to support this claim?
#113 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

That you're an idiot?

I'd say no citation necessary.

But, here, knock yourself out: user/goatman

#114 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-22 07:47 PM | Reply

"where is your citation to support this claim?
#113 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

That you're an idiot?
I'd say no citation necessary.
#114 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Your perception of my intelligence is not a citation of JPW's post which you support. And if you thought I was asking for a citation that I'm an idiot, you had better re-examine your own intelligence. Reading comprehension is fundamental and you clearly flunked out on your last attempt.

"'When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers."

Socrates

Better luck next time, clownshack

Bye, now!

#115 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-22 07:52 PM | Reply

Your perception of my intelligence is not a citation of JPW's post which you support.

You're an idiot for a lot of things, including your response to JPW's post.

The media has never "falsely portrayed Trump's behavior."

Which is what JPW said.

"idiots ... think things like Trump is a victim of a media that falsely portray his behavior.
#104 | POSTED BY JPW"

So when you responded.

He is [a victim of a media that falsely portray his behavior.]
#105 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

You prove yourself to be an idiot.

Bravo!

#116 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-22 08:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Never has the media been forced to retract more stories than they have with the ones they have reported about Trump. To claim there is not a media bias against him is laughable. ~ Goatman

And the retractions only go one way, never do they start off in his favor and go wrong ....

This is why "Whistleblower", "sources close to", "sources say" sets of BS detectors of intelligent people, the press can no longer be trusted.

#117 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-22 08:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--And the retractions only go one way, never do they start off in his favor and go wrong ....

Always. Always. Always.

#118 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-22 08:16 PM | Reply

"You prove yourself to be an idiot.
Bravo!

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

Whatever it takes to get you from stalking me.

OK, I'm an idiot. You really did answer the questiOn and provide a citation AS i requested, but I'm too stupid to see with my PGUPS. Indeed, I am too stupid to see any citations from you on this thread except an obsessive link to my user pager..

Now that you have the confession you want (simple things for simple minds as my mother used to say) begone, stalker!

Thanks1

#119 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-22 08:18 PM | Reply

This is why "Whistleblower", "sources close to", "sources say" sets of BS detectors of intelligent people, the press can no longer be trusted.

Trump isn't denying it, he's practically coming unglued that Joe Biden and his son are criminals and Ukraine doesn't want to do anything about after they already have - TWICE - the first time possibly corrupted in favor of Burisma by the guy Biden wanted fired. Funny how in 3 years he's only become interested in this after the 2020 Presidential race is fully underway and Biden currently is viewed as a prohibitive favorite to face Trump - should both of them get that far.

Giuliana has been running around bragging to everyone with a microphone about what he's been doing and he also said these quite unambiguous words about Trump's involvement in his affairs:

Rudolph W. Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, said in a phone call with The Post on Sunday morning that he has been "working for months for this moment" and this week will "keep pushing and pushing" to highlight the Biden family's finances. He alluded to new materials he may cite this week but declined to offer specifics.

When asked whether Trump has given Giuliani's efforts his blessing, Giuliani said, "I don't do anything that involves my client without speaking with my client."

www.washingtonpost.com

So no, Mattress, the media is not to blame for the details Trump and Giuliani share implicating them as actively trying to get Ukraine to prosecute his chief political rival.

According to Giuliani, Trump is.

#120 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 08:26 PM | Reply

Trump isn't denying it, he's practically coming unglued...

Is there any evidence that he was "glued" in the first place?

#121 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-09-22 08:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#120 | POSTED BY TONYROMA A

Oh please Tony ...

I will reiterate, just like you, "Whistleblower", "sources close to", "sources say" sets of BS detectors of intelligent people, the press can no longer be trusted.

You got nothing ... again ... you must be starving.

#122 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-22 08:34 PM | Reply

"Trump isn't denying it...

#120 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2019-09-22 08:26 PM "

And if he did, would you believe him?

----, man. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. When you go there, you are clutching at straws.

Is this the best you guys have?

#123 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-22 08:44 PM | Reply

#122

You really can't read, can you?

Trump and Giuliani are the ones saying it now.

It's no longer others, it's THEM.

Did you not read the links or watch the video of both saying exactly what I quoted?

You must have missed the newsflash of Trump's latest recitation of events: From his point of view nothing that he did was wrong. He's stopped making the assertion that the gist of the story is false. He may still deride the participant and circumstances (which is exactly what you're doing) but he's broadcasting the part he wants to become an issue that he can exploit to politically hurt Biden and help him.

Giuliani brags about his already known public schedule of meetings with Ukraine officials, trying to get them to prosecute Biden for various crimes. He says so on every tv show he visited in the last few days. Did you miss it?

Your non sequitur is just that since there's no dispute on the reasons behind the complaint because Trump not only wants Ukraine to prosecute the Bidens he's welcoming the issue hitting the news cycle. Right now, this is what TRUMP wants because he knows idiots like you won't begin to understand how he's trying to use the media to push HIS narrative of Biden being corrupted.

You are the quintessential Trump voter. Facts mean nothing. The only truth is whatever load of dreck Trump shoves down your mawing gullet.

#124 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 08:50 PM | Reply

Yo Mattress! Here's the latest from Trump's own mouth about his conversation with Ukraine's president:

Trump, while speaking with reporters before departing the White House for events in Texas and Ohio, continued to defend his July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, but said the 2020 Democratic presidential primary candidate was discussed in the exchange.

"We had a great conversation. The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, was largely corruption -- all of the corruption taking place, was largely the fact that we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son (adding to the corruption)," Trump told reporters.

www.cnn.com

#125 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 09:19 PM | Reply

I know a source of "Ctrl", "V" and "C" key caps so you won't have to replace the keyboard when yours wear out. #greencutandpaste

#126 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-23 08:14 AM | Reply

I know a source of "Ctrl", "V" and "C" key caps so you won't have to replace the keyboard when yours wear out.

I know a source of actual facts and history from which you can discern reality instead of the lies your media and leaders shove down your throat, even changing their messages in midstream, leaving the unaware looking like complete fools and imbeciles, holding bags of bovine feces.

It's called a "search engine" and it's been proven to work miracles in erasing ignorance and disinformation.

Perhaps you should use one.

#127 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-23 08:31 AM | Reply

The son of an American politician gets a 50,000 per month gig even though he has no relevant experience and a coke habit doesn't seem like a situation that screams corruption?

#128 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-23 08:58 AM | Reply

#123

He's a much lesser criminal than Donald Trump. Let's fry the big fish first.

#129 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-23 09:02 AM | Reply

I love how the bank robbers are trying to distract with another bank robber's caper.

#130 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-23 09:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Can't investigate Dillinger, some fourteen year old knocked over a convenience store.

#131 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-23 09:05 AM | Reply

In this case Biden is Dillinger.

#132 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-23 10:09 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

This is why "Whistleblower", "sources close to", "sources say" sets of BS detectors of intelligent people, the press can no longer be trusted.

#117 | Posted by AndreaMackris

And yet Mueller's report verified as true many of those "nothingberders" from anonymous sources.

Departures from this administration or internal strife reported by anonymous sources have panned out.

Face it, anonymously sourced stories have been true a significant portion of the time.

Only a fool, or dare I say an idiot, would disregard it without waiting to see if it turns out true.

#133 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-23 11:40 AM | Reply

Joe Biden's own words:

"I said I'm telling you, you're not getting the billion dollars. I said you're not getting the billion, and I'm going to be leaving here, and I think it was what, six hours. I looked. I said I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. He got fired."

#134 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-23 12:50 PM | Reply

We should look into the aid that Ukrainian officials gave to the Democrats in 2016. Quid pro quo, quid pro quo.

#135 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-23 12:52 PM | Reply

We should look into the aid that Ukrainian officials gave to the Democrats in 2016. Quid pro quo, quid pro quo.

#135 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-23 12:52 PM | Reply

I am for honest government. Whatever that takes.

Deal with those in power first. If this is a point you don't understand then you're deliberately stupid, another way of saying evil.

#136 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-23 01:00 PM | Reply

Donald Trump really needs to stop stonewalling that whistleblower on Ukraine, lest he appear to honest people to be a dishonest man.

#137 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-23 01:01 PM | Reply

"I said I'm telling you, you're not getting the billion dollars. I said you're not getting the billion, and I'm going to be leaving here, and I think it was what, six hours. I looked. I said I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. He got fired."

And GOOD for Biden and Obama! If you don't know why that's a good thing, a moral thing, the right thing to have been done, then you don't know what's going on. Period. You're misinformed or ignorant at best, and that's correctable. Or you could also be a willing fool or a propagandist for the corrupt Trump administration. Or worse.

Are you interested in the truth or not? Does that even matter to you?

#138 | Posted by YAV at 2019-09-23 10:19 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

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