Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, September 21, 2019

When President Trump spoke on the telephone with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in late July, the Ukrainians had a lot at stake. They were waiting on millions in stalled military aid from the United States, and Zelensky was seeking a high-priority White House meeting with Trump. Trump told his Ukrainian counterpart that his country could improve its image if it completed corruption cases that have "inhibited the interaction between Ukraine and the USA," according to a readout of the call released by Kiev.

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What neither government said publicly at the time was that Trump went even further " specifically pressing Ukraine's president to reopen a corruption investigation involving former vice president Joe Biden's son, according to two people familiar with the call, which is now the subject of an explosive whistleblower complaint.

Days after the two presidents spoke, Trump's personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, met with an aide to the Ukrainian president in Madrid and spelled out two specific cases he believed Ukraine should pursue. One was a probe of a Ukrainian gas tycoon who had Biden's son Hunter on his board. Another was an allegation that Democrats colluded with Ukraine to release information on former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort during the 2016 election.

"Your country owes it to us and to your country to find out what really happened," Giuliani said he told the Ukrainian president's aide, Andriy Yermak, during the Madrid meeting. Yermak, according to Giuliani, indicated that the Ukrainians were open to pursuing the investigations. The aide reiterated the Ukrainians' plea for a meeting with Trump, a summit that would be an important signal to Russia of Washington's support for Ukraine.

"I talked to him about the whole package," said Giuliani, who has been lobbying Ukrainian officials to take up the investigations since the spring. Yermak did not respond to a request for comment.

New revelations about the dual channels of pressure on Ukraine " one from the president and one from his personal attorney " are fueling questions about whether Trump used his office to try to force a foreign country to take actions damaging to his political opponents.

These - until proven otherwise - are the facts without a single inference of judgment or political ramification. Either the above is rooted in a true accounting of events or it is false. We don't need to argue about why the story of these events is being told because that does not matter.

Is there any arguable reason for a president to do what's noted above that involves the best interest of this nation? Or are they being done exclusively to further the president's own personal goals?

If you say yes to the first question and no to the second, please tell us your reasons why without mentioning the politics of those asking you the question. Because the questions have nothing to do with judging the reasons why the events happened. The questions were asked to determine if one finds the actions acceptable based on the sole fact that they happened at all.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-21 02:01 AM | Reply

It was Ok when Biden had the investigation of his son's company shut down and got the Ukraine to release information on Manifort.

#2 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 08:50 PM | Reply

#2 Link?

#3 | Posted by bored at 2019-09-21 10:12 PM | Reply

Is there any arguable reason for a president to do what's noted above that involves the best interest of this nation?

Absolutely. It is the duty of the executive to work with our allies to investigate wrongdoing by U.S. citizens and definitely any possible wrongdoing by members of the government.

#4 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 10:55 PM | Reply

I'm not your google monkey but this information is too important to not share: www.latlmes.com

#5 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-21 10:57 PM | Reply

Hey liar, what law are you claiming that Trump broke?

#6 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:03 PM | Reply

Hey liar, what law are you claiming that Trump broke?

#6 | Posted by Avigdore

As usual republicans have zero shame, ethics, standards or just about anything indicating character.

#7 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-21 11:44 PM | Reply

"Hey liar, what law are you claiming that Trump broke?

#6 | Posted by Avigdore
As usual republicans have zero shame, ethics, standards or just about anything indicating character.

#7 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2019-09-21 11:44 PM"

As usual jpw doesn't have a reply.

#8 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 11:46 PM | Reply

Absolutely. It is the duty of the executive to work with our allies to investigate wrongdoing by U.S. citizens and definitely any possible wrongdoing by members of the government.

Can you name any other POTUS who got their hands dirty in this manner as opposed to cooperation between law enforcement entities in each country to investigate wrongdoing by US citizens?

Because if you can't you're just rationalizing Trump's sleaze.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-21 11:47 PM | Reply

That's a bit of a false premised question. Just because I can't name something happening doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And just because something hasn't been done before, like punishing previous administrations for war crimes, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Neither of those make your false assertion of rationalizing true

#10 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-21 11:53 PM | Reply

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This is like the 5th TonyDrama thread on the Biden-Ukraine illegal influence scandal.

#11 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-09-22 12:05 AM | Reply

it's a big deal.

#12 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-22 12:07 AM | Reply

Seems we need an offsetting apology tour to appear acceptably humble...

#13 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2019-09-22 12:10 AM | Reply

--This is like the 5th TonyDrama thread on the Biden-Ukraine illegal influence scandal.

Yeah but this is the big one! Wait until Pelosi reads this thread. I predict impeachment next week.

#14 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-22 12:14 AM | Reply

pelosi is worthless.

#15 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-09-22 12:18 AM | Reply

It was Ok when Biden had the investigation of his son's company shut down and got the Ukraine to release information on Manifort.

#2 | POSTED BY VISITOR_ AT 2019-09-21 08:50 PM

Reopen the investigation Biden blackmailed the Ukraine to close.

#88 | POSTED BY VISITOR

False. And once again so everyone has the facts to counter Trump's bs:

1.) (W)estern governments, including the Obama administration wanted the prosecutor removed due to concerns about corruption in his own office.

2.) (T)he investigation into Burisma had already been shelved by the time Joe Biden was threatening to withhold financial aid unless Ukraine replaced its top prosecutor.

3.) Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yury Lutsenko said Burisma paid an entity connected to Hunter Biden "millions," but added, "from my point of view, a board member can be paid whatever a company decides ... they didn't violate any Ukrainian laws."

www.cnn.com

#92 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2019-09-21 04:26 PM

You think that cut'n paste doesn't damn Biden?

#93 | POSTED BY VISITOR_ AT 2019-09-21 04:33 PM

Get this troll-breathed imbecile out of here.

#16 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 12:22 AM | Reply

got the Ukraine to release information on Manifort.

Was the information false? Before you answer, I hope you realize that a jury has already found Manafort guilty of multiple crimes and he's plead guilty to multiple others, some related to his work in the Ukraine.

Is there one shred of evidence that either Biden has done anything against the law when the Chief Prosecutor of Ukraine said "from my point of view, a board member can be paid whatever a company decides ... they didn't violate any Ukrainian laws(?)"

You are mentally ill, please seek help.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 12:27 AM | Reply

Just because I can't name something happening doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

So you're just shooting in the dark. Figured.

And just because something hasn't been done before, like punishing previous administrations for war crimes, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

So a POTUS should leverage foreign military aid in order to target a political opponent?

You can't see the obvious conflict of interest here and why it's highly unethical?

BTW it's also garbage:

Trump and Giuliani allege, contrary to evidence, that Biden improperly pressured the Ukrainian government in 2016 to fire then-Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin in the midst of a corruption investigation of one of Ukraine's biggest gas companies, Burisma Group. Biden's youngest son, Hunter, was serving on the company's board at the time.

But the prosecutor, in fact, was the target of pressure by Ukrainian anti-corruption advocates and a host of international supporters of Ukraine, who argued he should be fired for failing to pursue major cases of corruption. And it was the widely known and publicly espoused position of the U.S. government, across a half dozen agencies, that the prosecutor's ouster was among crucial anti-corruption measures that the Ukrainian government needed to take to move forward economically and politically. As President Barack Obama's point man on Ukraine, Biden dutifully relayed those messages at every opportunity.

Yet Trump and Giuliani have turned that real-life scenario on its head, falsely alleging that Biden sought to corruptly influence a Ukrainian prosecutor's decisions in his son's favor.

www.justsecurity.org

Neither of those make your false assertion of rationalizing true

#10 | Posted by Avigdore

LOL

You're pulling an opinion out of thin air, contrary to norms in every professional setting I'm aware of.

Your refusal to investigate at least a little bit for supporting info suggests you know how thin your argument is and hope that by avoiding any real challenge with side steps and ignorance you'll trick people into not seeing how thin your argument is.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-22 12:34 AM | Reply

1.) (W)estern governments, including the Obama administration wanted the prosecutor removed due to concerns about corruption in his own office.

LOL

The same prosecutor Obama White House engaged Ukraine to give Russia collusion narrative an early boost?
thehill.com

This is Phreaking hilarious ...

#19 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-22 12:44 AM | Reply

Still waiting to hear what was illegal about this matter. Anyone know what tony is talking about? Or is this just another of his lies?

#20 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-09-22 12:58 AM | Reply

The controversy can be traced back to March 2014, when Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula in Eastern Ukraine, setting off an international crisis. As the administration's point-man on Ukraine, Biden led the U.S. response.

That April, Biden's son, Hunter, was appointed to the board of Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian natural gas company, despite lacking substantive experience working in Ukraine or the energy sector. He received compensation that was reportedly as high as $50,000 a month.
www.politico.com

Nothing to see here ... just privilege ....

#21 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-22 12:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

From the same link ...

At the time, Burisma was seeking to build inroads to U.S. Democrats as it faced investigative scrutiny. The same month Hunter Biden joined Burisma, the U.K. government froze bank accounts that allegedly belonged to its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, as part of a money laundering investigation.

Two years later, Joe Biden successfully pressured the Ukrainian government to remove its prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, who was unpopular with Western leaders, threatening to withhold loan guarantees if it did not. At the time, Shokin's office had open probes of Burisma and Zlochevsky. Shokin's successor closed the investigations, but then reopened an investigation of Burisma last year.

Perhaps the investigation had legs ....

#22 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-22 01:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It was Ok when Biden had the investigation of his son's company shut down and got the Ukraine to release information on Manifort.

#2 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

BS.

Rudy Giuliani accused me of exposing Paul Manafort's Ukraine deals to help U.S. Democrats. That's a lie.

On Aug. 19, 2016, I convened a news conference in Kiev at which I revealed previously secret records of payments made by the former pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych to Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. The information came from the "black ledger of the Party of Regions," which was obtained by an anonymous source in the burned-out ruins of the headquarters of Yanukoych's party. Yanukovych had used the ledger to keep records of his illegal transactions. At that time, although I was a member of parliament, I continued to combine that position with my journalistic work, which is allowed by the laws of Ukraine.

Corruption is harmful whether it takes place America or Ukraine. My desire to expose Manafort's doings was motivated by the desire for justice. Neither Hillary Clinton, nor Joe Biden, nor John Podesta, nor George Soros asked me to publish the information from the black ledger. I wanted to obtain accountability for the lobbyist whose client immersed Ukraine in a blood bath during the Revolution of Dignity and the subsequent war in eastern Ukraine, when Yanukovych called on Russia to send troops.

Giuliani's entire approach is built on disinformation and the manipulation of facts. Giuliani has developed a conspiracy theory in which he depicts my revelations about Manafort as an intervention in the 2016 U.S. election in favor of the Democratic Party. In his May interview on Fox, Giuliani even claimed that I was convicted of a corresponding crime.

The facts do not support this allegation.

#23 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-09-22 09:14 AM | Reply

I'm totally not curious why a foreign energy company would pay Biden's son 50000 per month. Given he had no experience in the Ukraine or energy.

#24 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-09-22 09:34 AM | Reply

#24

Someone else's misdeeds doesn't change the Fact that your Boss is a treasonous, lying bastard and behaves that way.

Sorry.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-22 09:41 AM | Reply

I mean, I really am sorry. Sorry that Trump is being taxed with his evil deeds for the first time in his useless life, But he has to grow up some time, even if it takes prison to do it.

#26 | Posted by Zed at 2019-09-22 09:44 AM | Reply

Biden is as crooked as a hog leg.www.youtube.com Bet you can't trust Hunter Biden when the chips start to fall. Coke heads loose their nerve when the high wears off.

#27 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-09-22 05:23 PM | Reply

Let's not forget it was the New York Times that broke this story back in May.

#28 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-09-22 05:27 PM | Reply

So - threatening to STOP an investigation using a bribe is NOT A CRIME. Telling them to follow their law and restart their investigation IS A CRIME. Got it Dems. No wonder you are so confused about Mueller - you don't understand what obstruction means.

#29 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-09-22 10:14 PM | Reply

#29 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

WHATABOUT, WHATABOUT, WHATABOUT!

I don't care what Biden did. If he did something wrong, then he should be investigated and prosecuted. But by US institutions under US laws. We don't export our dirty laundry. And these are all unsubstantiated allegations. So, innocent until proven guilty. If Trump has concerns about it, he should go through the proper channels and pass it to the FBI and let them investigate (though, Trump will know everything that happens regardless, since the FBI leaks everything that has to do with Democrats to Giuliani anyways). If the FBI were to REQUEST assistance from the White House getting cooperation from Ukraine in the THEIR (the FBI's) investigation, then that is a different story. But, as far as I can tell, that is not what happened here.

TRUMP, on the other hand, has ADMITTED to pressuring foreign governments to go after his political opponents. That is using his office to attack his political opponents. It is completely inappropriate for a public official, and ?probably? illegal. Regardless, it is definitely impeachable.

Concentrate on what has PROVABLY occurred, and stop trying to deflect with something that is only insinuation and accusation. Otherwise, your use of logical fallacies (whataboutism) just shows you as a Trump sychophant.

#30 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-09-23 02:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Concentrate on what has PROVABLY occurred, and stop trying to deflect with something that is only insinuation and accusation.

But then, two thirds of our right wing posters would have nothing to post...

#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-09-23 02:26 PM | Reply

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