Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, September 22, 2019

Cynthia and Edd Staton are thoroughly enjoying retirement in their 3,000 square-foot penthouse apartment. They have a housekeeper, eat out frequently, never fret about health care costs, and indulge in yoga classes and visits to the gym. It's a fine way to spend their golden years - in Ecuador.

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I would be living the life of Riley in Belize right now (with housekeeper, nicer home than I have now, perfect climate, crystal clear seas on pristine beaches) if not for my dependence on VA health care.

Even so, it's not out of the question. Belize is only a two hour flight from Houston. With the extremely affordable homes and low cost of living I've seen my three visits there, I could afford to come back to the US once a month for the expensive maintenance shot for my lungs and get refills on my diabetes meds. It's just a hard decision to pull of stakes on one's home of 63 years, and I"m not a fan of air travel.

Cay Caulker would be my choice. No paved roads, no powered vehicles except for a handful of small delivery trucks, many bars and restaurants don't even have outside walls -- just a roof, and you can ride your bicycle right to your table or bar. I love Cay Caulker.

#1 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 02:31 PM | Reply

Being an American "economic refugee" living abroad speaks to America's obscene levels of wealth inequality.

A story like this is not virtuous -- a story like this should outrage regular Americans who simply want a secure retirement situation instead of becoming destitute or homeless in their old age.

When I retire, I want to live here, in America -- no offense, Goat.

#2 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-21 03:00 PM | Reply

--Being an American "economic refugee" living abroad speaks to America's obscene levels of wealth inequality.

Or maybe it has something to do with unaffordable housing in states like California, due to Democrat policies.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-21 03:05 PM | Reply

"When I retire, I want to live here, in America -- no offense, Goat.

#2 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Why would I be offended? I support your decision. And I presume you would support mine to choose a much better environment and lifestyle to spend my few remainng years.

#4 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 03:11 PM | Reply

Or maybe it has something to do with unaffordable housing in states like California, due to Democrat policies.

#3 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Even if that were true, do you think Republicans and Trump are REALLY interested in fixing this mess?

#5 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-21 03:11 PM | Reply

"Even if that were true, do you think Republicans and Trump are REALLY interested in fixing this mess?

#5 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Neither has the power to change policy to California to make housing affordable. That is a state issue, and Democrats are the ones who hold the reigns of power in California.

There is something horribly wrong when median home sales in a place like Silicon Valley are $1.2 million and the "middle" class live in 800 square foot homes or cargo containers.

Yes, I get supply and demand, but the state should be doing something to make housing affordable for people who aren't ultra rich. California never balked at taxing. Why don't they put a luxury tax on high priced homes and use that money to help build affordable housing? This would also cut down on the homeless problem there.

#6 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 03:19 PM | Reply

Why would I be offended? I support your decision. And I presume you would support mine to choose a much better environment and lifestyle to spend my few remainng years.

#4 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Because I'm a nice effing guy.

You want to travel outside of America? I say great. See the world, as much as you can. I don't begrudge that at all -- we agree here.

For me, I've seen enough outside of CONUS -- my goal is to see the Redwoods in northern California and slap Bernie stickers on the giant Redwoods there. I also want to go to Boston and slap a White Sox sticker (and a Bernie sticker) on the statue of John Adams.

I just see a story like this and shake my head how it's slanted -- the real story is why Americans are "economic refugees" in the first place, a story we never see covered by the media.

#7 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-21 03:21 PM | Reply

I've looked into that for my wife and I when we finally retire. Was looking at Costa Rica. Thing is cost of living in NC is low enough that the savings will not be as vast as folks who retire from NY, NJ, CA etc.

In fact we are getting a ton of retirees here. Nothing wrong with that till our roads become like FL loaded with geezers driving these ancient boats of cars half blind. Fortunately as a minor tech hub we are getting more young tech folks than old geezers so having a tesla whip around you off a stop light is a biger risk than being behind grandma and grandpa.

#8 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-09-21 03:35 PM | Reply

"the real story is why Americans are "economic refugees" in the first place"

It's kinda like the frogs in a pot of water thing (which isn't true, the frogs jump out, but it's a useful analogy).
It's an Overton economic window that's been gradually sliding towards rewarding the already wealthy, for over four decades now.
And if you're unaware of America before 1975, you'd think this is all perfectly normal:

The onrush of technology has been a driving factor in the gradual development of a "two-tier" labor market in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. But the globalization of trade, and especially the rise of low-wage producers such as China, has put additional downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on the return to capital. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households. Since 1996, dividends and capital gains have grown faster than wages or any other category of after-tax income. www.cia.gov

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 03:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is true ....

Almost every Indian and Chinese individual I know of will be going back to their "homeland" to live off SS.

Pretty incredible privilege.

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-21 03:47 PM | Reply

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Being an American "economic refugee" living abroad speaks to America's obscene levels of wealth inequality.

no it doesn't, it speaks to the worlds obscene level of wealth inequality, and just how good we have it here.

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-21 03:48 PM | Reply

"For me, I've seen enough outside of CONUS -- my goal is to see the Redwoods in northern California and slap Bernie stickers on the giant Redwoods there. I also want to go to Boston and slap a White Sox sticker (and a Bernie sticker) on the statue of John Adams."

Then move to one of these retirement havens for expats. You will net more money that allows you to see these things, making it possible for you to see more. Round trip flights into Houston are only $300, so you can be back cheaply and easily to see the things you lists. You'll still be ahead monetarily.

If Belize is too far, there are entire retirement villages in Mexico that cater to American expats. That would keep you closer to the US and save you even more money.

For me it's doing the most I can with my money. And like you, I want to see things in the US as well. With the money saved, I can do both.

I could sell my home here, pay cash on this one, and still come out way aheaad, even with Texas' low real estate prices. with my savings, pensions, and SSD, I could live like a king and still have enough money for regular jaunts to the US. And I'd have to monthly for medical reasons. Thats the one reason I haven't done it yet.

www.belizerealestateservices.com

#12 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 03:50 PM | Reply

#9 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Fascinating your diatribe glosses over America's huge influx of unskilled labor in the 1970's and onward, which is what is causing wages to stagnate.

Blaming 1970, 1980s technology on stagnating wages is hilarious.

#13 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-21 03:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Thing is cost of living in NC is low enough that the savings will not be as vast as folks who retire from NY, NJ, CA etc."

Excellent point. My guess is that a good portion of these 'refugees' are from those states. The pot is a lot sweeter for them, assuming they own real estate. I see the same thing in the US -- people selling their homes in one of those high cost of living states and buying a much better place in Texas and still have a wad of money left over.

If I owned property in CA, NY, or NJ i don't think there is any question I'd sell (or even possibly rent) and move out of the country.

#14 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 03:59 PM | Reply

"Fascinating your diatribe glosses over America's huge influx of unskilled labor in the 1970's and onward."

It's not my diatribe.
It's written by the CIA.
I'm surprised Trump hasn't inserted your anti-immigrant propaganda in it yet.

Speaking of immigrants, are you a Native American, or are you descended from immigrants like 99% of us Americans?

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 03:59 PM | Reply

"And I'd have to monthly for medical reasons. Thats the one reason I haven't done it yet."

Youth is wasted on the young.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:02 PM | Reply

Pretty incredible privilege.

#10 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

No, it's not a "privilege".

We want Indians and Chinese who are here already, to STAY here and be good American citizens.

The fact that they want to go back to India and China -- something that you think is admirable -- speaks to the backward thinking you have as to what's good for America.

I work with Indians and while I've never asked them directly I'd guess that they'll stay after they've retired from working -- they've invested their lives in America and have children and grand children who've grown up here, in America.

In fact, you argued recently that there is no such thing as wealth inequality -- yet here you are now posting in a thread about American "economic refugees".

#17 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-21 04:03 PM | Reply

"Speaking of immigrants, are you a Native American, or are you descended from immigrants like 99% of us Americans?

#15 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

"Native American"

That term is so stupid. Only in the US do we use Carlin's "soft language" to describe something and misuse a word like "native".

I was born in Dallas. That makes me a native American.

Use the word 'indigenous' if you can't say 'Indian'. It's a more accurate word than 'native'.

#18 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

no it doesn't, it speaks to the worlds obscene level of wealth inequality, and just how good we have it here.

#11 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

The thread is about American "economic refugees", and capitalist systems exploiting the world's poor isn't virtuous, same with American workers being exploited by America's blood-sucking capitalists does NOT show how good things are ...

Your backwards view of things is just hilarious -- where are you from, the Planet of The Apes?

You're funny, but not funny.

#19 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-21 04:09 PM | Reply

"Only in the US do we use Carlin's "soft language" to describe something and misuse a word like "native".

It's not a misuse of the word Native, which I capitalized on purpose; it fits both 6b and especially 10 according to Merriam-Webster. www.merriam-webster.com

6b: living or growing naturally in a particular region : INDIGENOUS
native wildlife of Australia

10 capitalized: of, relating to, or being a member of an indigenous people of North or South America : NATIVE AMERICAN

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:13 PM | Reply

"... exploiting the world's poor ..."

Is it exploitation if a person chooses to be "exploited"?

I'll bet if I moved to Belize and put an ad in the local paper for a housekeeper or grounds keeper, I'd have a line forming outside my door.

Isn't employing people like this spreading the wealth you are decrying the imbalance of? Doesn't it help balance the scales?

#21 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 04:13 PM | Reply

"Is it exploitation if a person chooses to be "exploited"?"

Why wouldn't it be?
Is it drunkenness if a person chooses to be served a lot of drinks?

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:14 PM | Reply

--America's blood-sucking capitalists

You should give up your technology that was produced by capitalists for profits, and then we wouldn't have to read this drivel.

#23 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-09-21 04:14 PM | Reply

"10 capitalized: of, relating to, or being a member of an indigenous people of North or South America : NATIVE AMERICAN

#20 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Having been born in Dallas, I am also a Native American.

native
/ndiv/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not.

Actually being 1/16 indian makes me a native American in the other sense according the US government, but that is irrelevant to this argument. My grandmother, 1/4 Kiowas could no way claim she wasn't part Indian though she tried while growing up. She very much looked Indian. The "half-breed" mentality was still strong when she was a child in the early 20th century.

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 04:17 PM | Reply

""Is it exploitation if a person chooses to be "exploited"?"
Why wouldn't it be?
Is it drunkenness if a person chooses to be served a lot of drinks?

#22 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Works for me.

THere are a lot of people in Belized waiting to be and wanting to be exploited.

#25 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 04:18 PM | Reply

"THere are a lot of people in Belized waiting to be and wanting to be exploited."

Well, only due to lack of better opportunities.
And that's true the world over.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:20 PM | Reply

Pinchaloaf, this question was for you, btw:

Isn't employing people like this spreading the wealth you are decrying the imbalance of? Doesn't it help balance the scales?

#21 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-21 04:13 PM |

#27 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 04:20 PM | Reply

"Well, only due to lack of better opportunities.
And that's true the world over.

#26 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

You'ce been exploited your whole life by your employers. Did you lack better opportunities as well?

#28 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-21 04:22 PM | Reply

"I was born in Dallas. That makes me a native American."

It doesn't make you a Native American.
It's capitalized for a reason; to forestall the confusion you're attempting to sow.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:25 PM | Reply

"You'ce been exploited your whole life by your employers. Did you lack better opportunities as well?"

I'll settle for whatever your answer to your own question is.

Capitalism is the exploitation of natural resources. I'd say that includes human resources, wouldn't you? Every capitalist company I've ever worked for had a human resources department; I'm sure your experience is similar, though they called it "personnel" before my time.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Blaming 1970, 1980s technology on stagnating wages is hilarious."

Your cart-before-horse retelling of economic history is pretty hilarious too!

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-21 04:37 PM | Reply

And strangely enough, the last thing the Human Resources Department were worried about was the employee.

#32 | Posted by madscientist at 2019-09-21 04:38 PM | Reply

You should give up your technology that was produced by capitalists for profits, and then we wouldn't have to read this drivel.

#23 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

The free market is a merged government/private-sector model where privacy and personal data have been given to corporate marketers and advertisers for targeting consumers to separate people from their money while feeding peoples addictions ... that is where the world is now, and it's a capitalists wet dream.

#33 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-09-21 04:49 PM | Reply

Or maybe it has something to do with unaffordable housing in states like California, due to Democrat policies.

#3 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

What a load of hyperbolic crap.

Housing in CA was expensive compared to the rest of the country when Ronald Reagan was governor. People from all over the world have wanted to live there for many decades. Demand has always been high, thus prices.

Duh

#34 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-09-22 01:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Housing in CA was expensive compared to the rest of the country when Ronald Reagan was governor.
#34 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2019-09-22 01:05 AM "

True, but there were not so many priced out of home buying. There was nothing like the situation in Silicon Valley that exists today.

#35 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-22 07:24 AM | Reply

Or maybe it has something to do with unaffordable housing in states like California, due to Democrat policies.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian

Yeah, because there aren't 49 other states to choose from, right nulli?

Not when you've spotted an opportunity to bitch about a place you live in yet refuse to leave.

Why don't you talk about any of the red state schittholes that are super cheap because Republican policies make them unattractive places to live? You'd think that would be a huge draw, wouldn't you?

#36 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-22 10:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My preference is the English speaking country of The Philippines.

#37 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-09-22 02:14 PM | Reply

As a descendant of legal immigrants (who came here from Norway in the very early 1900's) I fail to see how the earlier question would be relevant. My ancestors neither took land from indigenous peoples, nor owned slaves. Well, not since Viking times anyway lol.

So strange how liberals now like to imply every white American is a descendant of slave owners and genocidal settlers. As if such "original sin" should matter. Also odd how virtually religious the left has grown. People calling Republicans a cult, while being dogmatic, holier-than-thou, moralizing, and obsessed with the sin people were born into ("privilege"). Almost like projection...

#38 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2019-09-22 02:38 PM | Reply

#38 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG AT 2019-09-22 02:38 PM | FLAG: Totally agree.

What percentage of people in America owned slaves at the peak of slavery?: "In 1860, the total free population of the United States and its territories was 27,489,561. A total of 393,975 people owned 3,953,760 slaves. That's 1.4% of the population that owned slaves, with an average of 10 slaves per owner."
www.quora.com

#39 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-09-22 02:59 PM | Reply

Fascinating your diatribe glosses over America's huge influx of unskilled labor in the 1970's and onward, which is what is causing wages to stagnate.

Blaming 1970, 1980s technology on stagnating wages is hilarious.

#13 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-09-21 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Reagan wanted and got amnesty and open borders with Mexico to kill the Unions that were empowering the middle class.

Now that Union membership is at record lows, the GOP wants them to go back as they outlived their usefulness to their goal.

Of course no fingers are pointed at the capitalists that gleefully hire undocumented immigrants to depress wages.

#40 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-09-23 07:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Isn't there high taxes on moving wealth out of the US?

Retiring sounds great, but the tax consequence?

I dont know the term. Duty, perhaps

#41 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-09-23 11:09 AM | Reply

I could sell my home here, pay cash on this one, and still come out way aheaad, even with Texas' low real estate prices. with my savings, pensions, and SSD, I could live like a king and still have enough money for regular jaunts to the US.

Taxpayer funded VA pension
Taxpayer funded VA health insurance for life
Taxpayer funded Social Security Disability

Hates "Socialism".

Let me introduce you to the hypocrite called Goatman.

#42 | Posted by zarnon at 2019-09-23 11:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If you can't get around that, you don't have wealth to begin with.

#43 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-09-23 11:31 AM | Reply

I'd wager 90% of Retort's Conservative crowd are likely sucking multiple Government --- while the liberals work. Call them the Party of Projectionism and be done with it.

#44 | Posted by zarnon at 2019-09-23 11:34 AM | Reply

Taxpayer funded VA pension

He worked for that in an agreement between him and the U.S. government. It's not socialism when it's a job agreement.

Taxpayer funded VA health insurance for life

Again, it was in the contract he and the government signed together for his employment. No socialism.

Taxpayer funded Social Security Disability

I doubt he gets SSD, he probably gets VA disability for the toll his body took while on active duty.

None of what you mentioned is socialism. It's a country paying a debt because of a contract with a citizen.

Let me introduce you to the idiot, who doesnt know what socialism is, called Zarnon..

#45 | Posted by boaz at 2019-09-23 11:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Taxpayer funded VA pension
Taxpayer funded VA health insurance for life
Taxpayer funded Social Security Disability
Hates "Socialism".
Let me introduce you to the hypocrite called Goatman.

#42 | POSTED BY ZARNON"

???

What hypocrisy? I signed a contract with the US government when I joined the Navy. Part of that contract was health care later in life.

What VA pension? I don't get a VA pension. But if I did, again, it would be a contractual fullfillment.

SSD? Yes, I was forced to pay into that system my whole life. And you think it's wrong for me to draw from it and get some of my money back? LOL If I live to be 85, I will at most get back 20% of what I was forced by law to pay into it.

So no, no hypocrisy.

#46 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 11:43 AM | Reply

for the toll his body took while on active duty.

Sitting on a boat during peacetime takes a toll on one's body?

Let me introduce you to the idiot, who doesnt know what socialism is, called Zarnon.

Actually, it's about 90% of the people who use the word.

But it is a good point that the people who cry the loudest about government expenditure are often big takers.

#47 | Posted by jpw at 2019-09-23 11:45 AM | Reply

"for the toll his body took while on active duty.
Sitting on a boat during peacetime takes a toll on one's body?

POSTED BY JPW AT 2019-09-23 11:45 AM "

Oh, look. My stalker who claims to have me plonked is back nipping at my heels as he does every day.,

"Sitting on a boat during peacetime takes a toll on one's body?"

Sitting? No.

Gotta love civilians who haven't served a day of active duty in their lives pretend to know what it's like to be in the service. As Jimmy Buffet said, "Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it".

#48 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 11:49 AM | Reply

He worked for that in an agreement between him and the U.S. government.

So when Republicans seek to limit the rights of employees to collectively bargain, and seek to abrogate existing Collective Bargaining Agreements between government and its employees, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Just checking.

#49 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 11:53 AM | Reply

"So when Republicans seek to limit the rights of employees to collectively bargain, and seek to abrogate existing Collective Bargaining Agreements between government and its employees, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Just checking.

#49 | POSTED BY JOE"

That's a very general question. Cite something more specific.

If an existing contract exists, it must be honored unless challenged in a court of law and found unlawful.

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 11:56 AM | Reply

I can ask any question i want. Republicans seem to disrespect agreements made with public employees unless it's a group of employees they think are Republicans.

#51 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 12:21 PM | Reply

No, We just dont want over burdensom union contracts that make business pay inflated wages for minimal skill work. If your skill is worth $15 an hour, you should get $15 an hour, not $30 an hour just because of an artificial limit created by corrupt union mobsters.

#52 | Posted by boaz at 2019-09-23 12:54 PM | Reply

"If your skill is worth $15 an hour, you should get $15 an hour"

How is a business going to earn a profit if skills don't add more value than they cost?
???

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 12:57 PM | Reply

It certainly doesnt pay to pay more for skills than they are worth.

#54 | Posted by boaz at 2019-09-23 01:14 PM | Reply

"It certainly doesnt pay to pay more for skills than they are worth.

#54 | POSTED BY BOAZ "

True. That is a cause of inflation.

#55 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 01:16 PM | Reply

Baby steps, Boaz!

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 01:17 PM | Reply

If your skill is worth $15 an hour, you should get $15 an hour

And when an industry can unilaterally determine the "worth" of a skill over an employee with no bargaining power, their natural inclination will be to devalue it. There's a middle ground somewhere and it's not where you are.

#57 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 01:24 PM | Reply

"And when an industry can unilaterally determine the "worth" of a skill over an employee with no bargaining power, their natural inclination will be to devalue it."

Here's the shape of their rebuttal:

It's not wrong to exploit low skill workers, or high skill workers for that matter.

It's the worker's fault, for not obtaining better skills.

No one forces anyone to work at a place where they feel they are underpaid.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 01:29 PM | Reply

"And when an industry can unilaterally determine the "worth" of a skill over an employee with no bargaining power, their natural inclination will be to devalue it. There's a middle ground somewhere and it's not where you are.

#57 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-09-23 01:24 PM "

The marketplace determines that. That is why the unionized auto industry in Detroit collapsed and the non-union shops in the south are thriving.

#59 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 01:31 PM | Reply

"The marketplace determines that."

Why does the marketplace determine a union worker is worth more than a non-union worker?

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 01:33 PM | Reply

The marketplace determines that.

There's nothing about "the marketplace" that requires one-on-one negotiation between a worker and an industry. If i get together with a few of my friends and say we want to make this much money and someone gives it to us, that's "the marketplace" too - until the government steps in and says we can't do that.

#61 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 01:34 PM | Reply

"until the government steps in and says we can't do that.

#61 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-09-23 01:34 PM "

Exactly. The government and unions need to stay out of the wage setting business.

How can anyone fail to see the results of artifical wages? Detroit for the union part. As for the government, menial HS jobs are being replaced with automatic burger flippers, kiosk ordering, etc. because it's cheaper than paying $15 for unskilled labor performed by a zit faced teenager

#62 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 01:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"menial HS jobs are being replaced"

They are.
So what are HS kids supposed to do?

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 01:46 PM | Reply

Once again - there's nothing about "the marketplace" that requires unilateral negotiation between one employee and an industry. A group of employees increasing their bargaining power is still "the marketplace."

#64 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 01:46 PM | Reply

If money were the only concern, I would leave California. But the quality life for middle class people such as myself not living in a major city is way higher than I observe in most every other part of the nation. Maybe Hawaii is comparable. But that's about it.

On the other hand, there are numerous locations throughout Central and South America which would be very tempting.

#65 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-09-23 01:49 PM | Reply

"Once again - there's nothing about "the marketplace" that requires unilateral negotiation between one employee and an industry. A group of employees increasing their bargaining power is still "the marketplace."

POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-09-23 01:46 PM "

The market place and union are two different entities. But if you want to say they are the same, I"m not going to quibble. Just replace all my remarks about the market place with 'union free marketplace'.

#66 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 01:50 PM | Reply

"A group of employees increasing their bargaining power is still "the marketplace."

And CEOs financing the political careers of legislators to pass Right-To-Work laws to weaken worker's bargaining power is likewise still "the marketplace."

Down in old towm Annapolis, the slave blocks are a relic of "the marketplace" from a different era's concept of labor rights.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 01:52 PM | Reply

So industries can consolidate power and drive down wages by buying up competitors, outsourcing, making themselves the only game in town, etc., but when employees make even a glancing blow at leveling the playing field, that's a no-no to Republicans. Classic.

#68 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 01:53 PM | Reply

There's a middle ground somewhere and it's not where you are.

Well it damn sure isnt where you are.

A group of employees increasing their bargaining power is still "the marketplace."

Yep. And an employer or employers refusing to hire them because of their artificial, inflated wages is the market as well.

#69 | Posted by boaz at 2019-09-23 01:59 PM | Reply

"Just replace all my remarks about the market place with 'union free marketplace'.

Well said.

You demand the marketplace off limits to certain groups of people, because of their negotiating power.

Workers must give up their rights to freely associate when entering the market.

Employers are free to continue freely associating.

It's a double standard, that harms workers.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 02:00 PM | Reply

Not having a skill drives down wages, Joe.

I dont know what part of this you dont understand.

Making someone pay you a wage not deserved is not a good thing.

#71 | Posted by boaz at 2019-09-23 02:00 PM | Reply

Not having a skill drives down wages, Joe.

I never said it didn't, idiot.

#72 | Posted by JOE at 2019-09-23 02:04 PM | Reply

This article is click bait. If you click on wife's blog link, they're selling "How To Retire Abroad in Five Easy Steps. books, memberships and seminars.

Slick.

#73 | Posted by Goose_Boils at 2019-09-23 02:22 PM | Reply

If an existing contract exists, it must be honored unless challenged in a court of law and found unlawful.

#50 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-09-23 11:56 AM

That statement has been proven false by every corporation that arbitrarily reduced contracted pension benefits for its ex-employees

#74 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-09-23 02:27 PM | Reply

"That statement has been proven false by every corporation that arbitrarily reduced contracted pension benefits for its ex-employees

#74 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 "

Then a binding contract guaranteeing it did not exist.

Next year I start drawing pensions from Sprint and Transocean. I don't recall any written promise of pensions, though I was told I would get one. Without a written guarantee in the employment contract, you are right. It can be taken, as mine can be taken.

But if it is in writing and signed by both parties, it is untouchable. I think, however, corporations are smart enough to not put pension talk in writing.

#75 | Posted by goatman at 2019-09-23 02:31 PM | Reply

If a job is needed to be done by a living human being then it's worth paying a living wage by definition. If you can't afford to pay a living person a wage sufficient to allow them to live then there is something deeply flawed in your business plan. Unless of course you figure out a way to make living an externality for your purposes.

#76 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-09-23 02:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Let me introduce you to the idiot, who doesnt know what socialism is, called Zarnon..

Socialist --- sucker I, meet Socialist --- sucker 2.

Of course Boaz would jump in and defend him, since he's the same kind of taxpayer leech Goatman is.

I don't begrudge you your taxpayer supported healthcare. You rail against the cost, complexity and God knows what else while feeding at the trough.

There's no shame to RepubliDunces these days. They argue against the same systems they benefit from. Of course they deserve it while the rest of the masses can suck it.

Why shouldn't a doctor who's devoted their lives to primary care have the same kinds of benefits those who (might) kill someone. I've saved more lives than most service people ever will take. Every damn taxpayer has a voice in how their money is spent. I vote to spend it on the same kinds of benefits you think only belong to you and your own.

#77 | Posted by zarnon at 2019-09-23 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But one day we must come to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."
Martin Luther King

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-23 07:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"menial HS jobs are being replaced"
They are.
So what are HS kids supposed to do?
#63 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Anyone?
???

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-09-24 03:29 PM | Reply

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