Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, October 04, 2019

In newly disclosed text messages shared with Congress, the top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine writes to a group of other American diplomats that "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."

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Sondland responded by saying that was not what was happening. "Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo's of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign."

"The president has been crystal clear..."

Should be giant red flag right there. Yet Sondland is crystal clearly a Trumper through and through. You can be as clear as possible ensuring something is not true, but when the facts are damning, as they are here, taking the culprit's word over the available evidence outs Sondland as, more than likely, an autocratic sycophant.

The only corruption issue raised (which up until now has not been considered such within Ukrainian or U.S. borders) during Trump's conversation with Ukrainian president involved the Bidens, one of whom just so happens to be the political front runner as Trump's opponent for 2020. You're telling me we are supposed to believe that corruption in the Ukraine was the central focus of that phone call? Even so, in that case, Trump committed a crime without knowing it, as any result would be personally and politically beneficial to him (i.e., "something of value"). Should the investigation prove, like Mueller did with Don Jr., that ignorance of the law justifies not being held to account for criminal actions, then Trump will be let off the hook.

But don't look at me with a straight face and tell me Trump's actual intentions were anything but related to his personal gain, which in this instance is centered upon his personal political gain. Up until 2017 or 2018, Trump would not have been capable of pointing out Ukraine on a map or what events led to the establishment of Ukraine as a sovereign country, let alone explain the levels of corruption infecting its government. Hence, the idea that he made the phone call for the better interests of Ukrainian/U.S. relations is significantly improbable.

#1 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 06:30 PM | Reply

JUST IN: Trump Reportedly Removed Ukraine Ambassador Because Giuliani Said She Was Blocking a Biden Probe
www.mediaite.com

Please, just not with a straight face. If you do, it exemplifies a trace of sociopathy in your character.

#2 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 06:36 PM | Reply

The irony of President Trump's sudden impeachment peril is that it's the unintended result of an effort to help him: a political hit job aimed at a likely opponent (Joe Biden) and funded by a major right-wing donor (Rebekah Mercer) that Trump and his lawyer (Rudy Giuliani) impatiently hijacked, with consequences that could turn out to be disastrous for them.

...The notion that Hunter Biden and his father could be complicit in Ukrainian corruption was first aired in a 2018 book, Secret Empires: How the American Political Class Hides Corruption and Enriches Family and Friends, by conservative author Peter Schweizer. The book and its author had a purpose and a lineage.

Schweizer, an editor at Breitbart News, is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI), a nonprofit group whose board chairwoman and major donor is Rebekah Mercer, a prominent Trump supporter and benefactor of right-wing causes.

drudge.com

Concern about Ukrainian corruption was REALLY Trump's sole interest? Are you ------- kidding me?

#3 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 06:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump raised Biden with Xi in June call housed in highly secure server - CNNPolitics. tiny.iavian.net

So you're STILL gonna tell me that Trump's main concern with Ukraine was the overall level of corruption within their government?

#4 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 07:27 PM | Reply

From your article, Rsty:

Volker is participating in a closed-door transcribed interview with members of the House Intelligence, Oversight and Foreign Affairs committees after the complaint mentioned him as having allegedly played a role in Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani's investigations connected to Ukraine. Volker resigned soon after the complaint was made public last week.

Talking to reporters outside the hearing, Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the House Oversight Committee, praised Volker as "unbelievably knowledgeable about what was going on in Ukraine" and called him a "true professional in our diplomatic corps."

"But not one thing he said comports with any of the Democrats' impeachment narrative," he added. "Not one thing."

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., told reporters Thursday afternoon that he would not yet comment on Volker's testimony.

Other outlets, like The Hill and Politico, both echo the same comments by GOP Reps and refusals by Dems to comment after his testimony:
In a statement Thursday morning, GOP Rep. Mike Turner (Ohio) disclosed that the first hour of the deposition consisted of staffers for Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) questioning Volker. Turner praised Volker as an "incredible diplomat" and slammed Schiff's impeachment probe.

"It is deeply unfortunate and regrettable that Schiff's show trial investigation has clearly affected Volker's ability to advance U.S. interests with Ukraine. It is my strong belief that Volker would not have been involved in nor permitted anything inappropriate, let alone illegal, in his service to our country," Turner said. "Today he continued his legacy of integrity under questioning from Schiff's staff. I do not believe that Volker's testimony advanced Schiff's impeachment agenda."

The Democrats on hand included Rep. Eric Swalwell (Calif.), an Intelligence member who dropped out of the 2020 presidential race this summer; Rep. Jamie Raskin (Md.), a former constitutional law professor who serves on Oversight; and Rep. Gerry Connolly (Va.), a Foreign Affairs member.

The first lawmaker seen leaving the meeting, Raskin, declined to comment. Connolly left soon after, saying he needed to attend a town hall in his district but would not answer any questions about Volker. Swalwell and Connolly similarly refused comment.

IMO, if Volker had been helpful to the Dems, they would have been holding massive pressers to declare Orange Man Bad. Instead, "no comments" all around.

#5 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-03 07:40 PM | Reply

From Politico:

A short stretch into the session, some Republicans briefly emerged to insist that Volker's testimony so far was not harmful to the president.

"Not one thing [Volker] has said comports with any of the Democrats' impeachment narrative, not one thing," said Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio). He also complained that Democrats had refused to allow State Department lawyers to take part in the questioning.

In the late afternoon, another Republican pushed a similar narrative. Rep. Lee Zeldin of New York said Volker's comments "blew a massive hole" through allegations that Trump sought a quid pro quo from Ukraine's leader, without offering specifics.

Zeldin also praised Volker and asked Democrats release the transcript of his deposition as soon as possible.

Grim faced Democrats, including Rep. Adam Schiff (D-California) and Eric Swalwell (D-California) refused comment after the session closed.

#6 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-03 07:45 PM | Reply

BREAKING NEWS U.S. diplomats drafted a statement for Ukraine's leader that would have committed him to investigations of President Trump's rivals.
Yep, nothing damaging whatsoever..............

#7 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 07:49 PM | Reply

IMO, if Volker had been helpful to the Dems, they would have been holding massive pressers to declare Orange Man Bad. Instead, "no comments" all around.
#5 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

And that conclusively mitigates everything taking place? One individual's testimony?

I wasn't aware IMPEACHMENT was centered squarely upon Volker.

You've earned a point for Trump's defense, but that hardly invalidates the thread's main contention, IMO.

And you still haven't addressed the heightened obstruction behavior that should be considered along with that offered through Mueller report.

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 07:50 PM | Reply

ROC -

At least you're not doing it with a straight face...I see that smirk, counselor.

#9 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 07:54 PM | Reply

From Tony's article:

WASHINGTON " Two of President Trump's top envoys to Ukraine drafted a statement for the country's new president in August that would have committed Ukraine to pursuing investigations sought by Mr. Trump into his political rivals, three people briefed on the effort said.

The drafting of the statement marks new evidence of how Mr. Trump's fixation with Ukraine began driving senior diplomats to bend American foreign policy to the president's political agenda in the weeks after the July 25 call between the two leaders.

The statement was drafted by Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, then the State Department's envoy to Ukraine, according to the three people who have been briefed on it.

Mr. Volker spent Thursday on Capitol Hill being questioned by House investigators as Democrats pursued their impeachment inquiry into Mr. Trump's actions. He disclosed a set of texts in September in which Bill Taylor, the top American diplomat in Ukraine, alluded to Mr. Trump's decision earlier in the summer to freeze a military aid package to the country. He told Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker: "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."

After speaking with Mr. Trump, Mr. Sondland texted back that there was no quid pro quo, adding, "I suggest we stop the back and forth by text."

It was not clear if the statement drafted in August by Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker came up in the closed-door session on Capitol Hill.

The statement was written with the awareness of a top aide to the Ukrainian president, as well as Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump's personal lawyer and the de facto leader of a shadow campaign to push the Ukrainians to press ahead with investigations that could be of political benefit to Mr. Trump, according to one of the people briefed on it.

The statement would have committed Ukraine to investigating the energy company Burisma, which had employed Hunter Biden, the younger son of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. And it would have called for the Ukrainian government to look into what Mr. Trump and his allies believe was interference by Ukrainians in the 2016 election in the United States to benefit Hillary Clinton.
----------

Yeah, sure, no personal political benefit in mind at all./s

Yes please, release the transcript of Volker's testimony ASAP.

#10 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 07:59 PM | Reply

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The statement would have committed Ukraine to investigating the energy company Burisma, which had employed Hunter Biden, the younger son of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. And it would have called for the Ukrainian government to look into what Mr. Trump and his allies believe was interference by Ukrainians in the 2016 election in the United States to benefit Hillary Clinton.
And don't think for a second Trump's search is about real evidence that would support his theories. All they're trying to do is to get someone credible to buy into the conspiracy, thereby dragging others into it still without any real direct evidence. Once they get enough to believe on faith, then the absence of actual evidence is confirmation of (a) cover up (by) those they'll claim won't allow the real truth to get out.

POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2019-10-02 08:52 PM |

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 08:06 PM | Reply

LOL:

"according to three people who had been briefed on it"... "according to one of the people who have been briefed on it"..."written with the awareness of a top aide to the Ukrainain President"...

Get back to me when you have anything that isn't inadmissible hearsay, this echoes of all the hearsay that WashPo shouted out during the Russian Collusion debacle which has been shown to be nonsense.

#12 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-03 08:12 PM | Reply

Get back to me when you have anything that isn't inadmissible hearsay, this echoes of all the hearsay that WashPo shouted out during the Russian Collusion debacle which has been shown to be nonsense.
#12 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Like Trump's accusations against the Bidens?

#13 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Mid July - [Trump tells his Chief of Staff](www.washingtonpost.com) to withhold $400 million in military aid for Ukraine.
- July 24 - [Mueller's last testimony](www.nytimes.com)
- July 25 - [Ukraine phonecall](www.apnews.com)
- July 26 - Trump personally asked U.K.'s Boris Johnson for help [discrediting the Mueller report](www.marketwatch.com)
- July 28 - Dan Coats (Director of National Intelligence) [resigns](www.nytimes.com) because he feels his duties are at odds with Trump.
- July 28 - [Trump announces Ratcliffe](abcnews.go.com) as his pick.
- Aug. 2 - [Ratcliffe nomination withdrawn](www.npr.org) less than a week later amidst criticisms of partisan loyalty and resume padding.
- Aug. 8 - [Trump picks Maguire.](www.usatoday.com)
- Aug. 8 - Dan Coats [interrupts a meeting](www.cnn.com) to urge his deputy, Sue Gordon to resign. She announces her resignation.
-

#14 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:41 PM | Reply

-Aug. 12 - Whistleblower [complaint is filed.](www.wsj.com)
- Aug. 15 - [Coats and Gordon depart](nypost.com) (both are Trump admin nominees).
- Aug. 26 - [Intelligence IG forwards complaint to the acting DNI.](www.washingtonpost.com)
- Aug. 28 - First [reporting](www.politico.com) that Ukraine military aid is being withheld.
- Sep. 2 - [Deadline passes for complaint submission.](www.cbsnews.com)
- Sep. 9 - Intel IG notifies House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff of an ["credible, urgent concern"](www.washingtonpost.com) that DNI has overruled.
- Sep. 10 - [Schiff demands DNI submit complaint.](www.npr.org)
- Sep. 9/10 - John Bolton [resigns/is fired.](www.wsj.com)
-

#15 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:41 PM | Reply

-Sep. 12 - Trump finally [releases Ukraine military aid.](www.reuters.com)
- Sep. 13 - [Schiff subpoenas Maguire.](intelligence.house.gov)
- Sep. 17 - [Maguire refuses to testify](www.nytimes.com) - suspicions of WH/DOJ stonewalling.
- Sep. 18 - Media revelations of the ["promise" made to foreign nation.](www.washingtonpost.com)
- Sep. 19 - Media revelations that [Ukraine is involved.](www.washingtonexaminer.com)
- Sep. 19 - The [Intelligence inspector general gives a classified briefing](www.latimes.com) to the House Intelligence Committee.
- Sep. 20 - It's reported that Trump [pressed Zelensky to investigate Biden's son](www.nytimes.com) during a call on July 25.
- Sep. 22 - Trump [acknowledges that he discussed Joe Biden in a July call with Zelensky](www.nytimes.com).
- Sep. 24 - [Pelosi announces impeachment inquiry](www.wsj.com).
- Sep. 24 - The DNI [sent a letter](www.documentcloud.org) to the whistleblower's legal team noting that the executive is preventing his submission of the complaint, but reassures the whistleblower that they have followed procedure and they will be protected.
- Sep. 24 - Senate [unanimously (100-0) passed](theweek.com) a non-binding resolution to release the whistleblower complaint.
-

#16 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:42 PM | Reply

-Sep. 25 - Officials [report](www.washingtonpost.com) that Maguire threatened to resign if pressured to stonewall Congress by the WH. (Maguire denies, Wapo stands by reporting)
- Sep. 25 - [Trump implicates Pence](www.inquisitr.com) in the Ukraine scandal.
-

#17 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:43 PM | Reply

-Sep. 25 - Whistleblower complaint is [sent to Congress.](www.cbsnews.com)
- Sep. 25 - House [backs release of whistleblower complaint 421-0.](www.reuters.com)
- Sep. 25 - [First Republican Senators](www.washingtonpost.com) publicly voice concern over the details.]
- Sep. 26 - Whistleblower complaint [is released](edition.cnn.com).
- Sep. 26 - New revelations from the complaint reveal a [cover-up](www.bbc.com), in which the complaint was stored in a separate system used for classified information.
- Sep. 26 - Maguire [testifies](www.c-span.org). He defends the whistleblower and credibility of the complaint.
- Sep. 26 - Trump likens whistleblower informant [to a spy](www.nytimes.com) and a traitor, and remarks that spies were "dealt with differently" in the old days.
- Sep. 26 - [Second whistleblower](lawandcrime.com) resurfaces (Court filing August 20) about abuses at the IRS over Trump's tax returns.
- Sep. 27 - White House admits Trump's Ukraine phone call record was moved to [secret server](www.independent.co.uk)
- Sep. 27 - House [subpoenas Mike Pompeo](www.reuters.com) for Ukraine documents.
-

#18 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:44 PM | Reply

-Sep. 29 - Trump calls impeachment inquiry a ["coup"](www.independent.co.uk) (Coup - A sudden, violent, illegal takeover of a government)
- Sep. 29 - Trump says he wants to [meet whistleblower](thehill.com) and warns of "Big Consequences!
- Sep. 30 - [Whistleblower's lawyers say Trump has endangered their client](www.commondreams.org)
- Sep. 30 - House Democrats believe Trump may have [lied to Mueller](www.politico.com)
- Sep. 30 - [Revelations that AG Barr personally asked](www.washingtonpost.com) foreign officials to aid inquiry into intelligence agencies regarding the 2016 election.
- Sep. 30 - [Revelations that Trump Pressed Australian Leader](www.nytimes.com) to Help Barr Investigate Mueller Inquiry's Origins]
- Sep. 30 - Democrats [subpoena Rudy Guiliani](apnews.com) for Ukraine documents.
- Sep. 30 - Trump shares a tweet regarding [civil war](www.washingtonpost.com)

#19 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:44 PM | Reply

Trump calls impeachment inquiry a "coup".

Well, in his defense, he's seen a lot of cooze.

---(it's an aural joke)

#20 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-10-03 09:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- Oct. 2 - Senator King suggests [20 minutes](www.newsweek.com) are missing from Trump-Ukraine call.
- Oct. 2 - [DOJ orders White House](lawandcrime.com) to preserve all records related to Trump's talks with foreign leaders.
- Oct. 2 - Revelations that Giuliani [consulted on Ukraine](www.washingtonpost.com) with imprisoned Paul Manafort.
- Oct. 2 - Trump says Schiff should resign and be looked at [for treason](www.theguardian.com)
- Oct. 3 - Trump publicly calls for [China and Ukraine](www.npr.org) to investigate Biden.
- Oct. 3 - Reports that Ukraine's President confused over [whether to listen to U.S. Embassy or Trump's Campaign](www.newsweek.com)
- Oct. 3 - Revelations that Trump had [ousted Ukraine ambassador](talkingpointsmemo.com) after Giuliani's complaints.
- Oct. 3 - Reports that [Trump envoys pushed Ukraine](www.nytimes.com) to commit to investigations.
- Oct. 3 - Revelations that Trump discussed Biden (and Warren) [with Xi](amp.cnn.com)

#21 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:48 PM | Reply

Forgive the spamming if my own these, but this timeline is important, IMO.

#22 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:49 PM | Reply

These=thread

#23 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:49 PM | Reply

One Trump ally outside the White House described receiving a message from Chinese government officials asking if Trump was serious when he suggested China open an investigation into Biden. The response: investigating corruption is an easy way to earn goodwill with Trump.

amp.cnn.com

#24 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 09:53 PM | Reply

#24 Sounds like Trump knew that story about China was going to break, so he tried to pre-empt it by asking China outright on camera. Maybe it would be easier to figure out which countries Trump didn't ask for the political "favor" of giving him manufactured dirt on some Democrat or other.

#25 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-03 10:24 PM | Reply

Thanks for the chronology Rsty.... Just reading each entry is stunning on multiple levels. And I share your frustration about the complete lack of concern of those who absolutely know better as they silently let Trump make a mockery of the law. First, he attacks his own federal law enforcement as corrupted, pardons politically-connected convicted felons while calling in question their prosecutions and findings of guilt by juries, talks about those who cooperate with LEO as rats and snitches, but now we're to believe that he wants the full force of two separate foreign governments to rain down on Joe and Hunter Biden because he's a champion of corruption laws?

There's only one reason that Donald Trump is claiming to care about the business dealings of Hunter Biden and Trump keeps confirming it every day when he opens his mouth. Not only is it illegal, it's corrupt and it's blatant, right out in the open.

So trust me, I feel you.

#26 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 10:26 PM | Reply

Like Trump's accusations against the Bidens?

Exactly like that, Trump's accusations are hearsay. What is admissible, however, is Biden's own admission against interest about withholding $1B in US aid unless the Ukrainian Prosecutor was fired.

Forgive the spamming if my own these, but this timeline is important, IMO.

No worries, ignoring your spam.

#27 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-03 10:29 PM | Reply

#25

And what if Trump plans to use the Trade War in order to get China to do what he's asking? Would he leverage tariffs for a Chinese investigation into Hunter Biden?

What if this isn't the first time Trump has asked Xi for help?

The possibilities are uncountable.

#28 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 10:30 PM | Reply

What is admissible, however, is Biden's own admission against interest about withholding $1B in US aid unless the Ukrainian Prosecutor was fired.

Admissible for what charge or legal proceeding? Are you claiming that you don't know the true story behind what Biden did?

Good lord man. I guess that tells us all we need to know about you after that blast.

#29 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 10:32 PM | Reply

No worries, ignoring your spam.
#27 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Do you also feel the timeline of events is important to keep in mind?

#30 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 10:39 PM | Reply

Biden absolutely bragged about a quid pro quo arrangement - fire this prosecutor or I will withhold Billions in funds. Said prosecutor was fired and said prosecutor was investigating potentially illegal activities of a company that Biden's son was drawing an extremely lucrative salary in spite of any kind of experience or expertise to justify such compensation.

Other factors were at play, including multiple European countries calling for this same prosecutor to be terminated, but I haven't seen a quid-pro-quo arrangement from those European nations (if it's there I'll gladly retract) yet the strong-arm arrangement is clearly here with Biden.

I still think it's ultimately much ado about very little, but I do understand why this has become an issue.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-03 10:46 PM | Reply

Jeff,

What part of 5 CFR 2635.702 - 'Use of public office for private gain' is not clearly applicable to Trump's phone call with Ukrainian president?

#32 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 10:49 PM | Reply

"Said prosecutor was fired and said prosecutor was investigating potentially illegal activities of a company that Biden's son was drawing an extremely lucrative salary in spite of any kind of experience or expertise to justify such compensation. "

Simply not true:

A Republican Conspiracy Theory About a Biden-in-Ukraine Scandal Has Gone Mainstream. But It Is Not True.
May 10 2019

In an interview with The Intercept, Daria Kaleniuk, an American-educated lawyer who founded Ukraine's Anti-Corruption Action Center, expressed frustration that two recent front-page stories in the New York Times, on how the conspiracy theory is being used to attack Biden, failed to properly debunk the false accusation. According to Kaleniuk, and a former anti-corruption prosecutor, there is simply no truth to the rumor now spreading like wildfire across the internet.

"Shokin was fired," Kaleniuk observed, "because he failed to do investigations of corruption and economic crimes of President Yanukovych and his close associates, including Zlochevsky, and basically it was the big demand within society in Ukraine, including our organization and many other organizations, to get rid of this guy."

By getting Shokin removed, Biden in fact made it more rather than less likely that the oligarch who employed his son would be subject to prosecution for corruption.


theintercept.com

#33 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-03 10:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Gal,

The truth and all the details about Biden and Ukraine have been posted over and over again on multiple threads. There is no way anyone truly interested in the actual truth shouldn't know it by now or at least google and read one of the thousands of supporting entries explaining the facts.

They do not want to know and they think we're making things up and not reporting factual information.

#34 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 11:05 PM | Reply

Jeff,

The quid pro quo was between the US Government (including 3 GOP Senators), the IMF, the European Union and other western nations and financial interests pressuring Ukraine. There were a $1 billion of loan guarantees on the table and all the aforementioned parties wanted the prosecutor fired. Biden was the spokesperson sent to deliver the message.

The end of Gal's post says the rest.

#35 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-03 11:12 PM | Reply

Biden was the spokesperson sent to deliver the message.
The end of Gal's post says the rest.

#35 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Exactly this. If it was B. Hussein's administration that Trump requested the Ukrainian's to investigate, it would have provided him some cover, as clearly, Biden was acting on behalf of the administration, it was B. Hussein's decision to make such demands in concert with the West. Trump didn't do that. He blatantly called out Biden. Biden's status as political candidate, and front runner at that (to counter AVIGDOR's delusional post on another thread), sets this apart as being criminal.

#36 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-03 11:20 PM | Reply

Tony,

I want to be very clear to you: Based upon what is publicly-known so far I don't think Biden was involved in any illegality.

It's based, in part, on that I don't feel that Trump is involved in any illegality either, as it pertains to all of this Ukraine stuff.

It's either ALL (or most) illegal or it's none (or most) illegal.

#37 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-03 11:21 PM | Reply

I want to be very clear to you: Based upon what is publicly-known so far I don't think Biden was involved in any illegality.

It's based, in part, on that I don't feel that Trump is involved in any illegality either, as it pertains to all of this Ukraine stuff.

It's either ALL (or most) illegal or it's none (or most) illegal.

Posted by JeffJ

What Trump did on the South Lawn of the WH today? Seeking foreign help in winning reelection is a felony. What more proof do you need? The Chinese too?

Today's public statements by Trump are akin to what happened the day after Trump publicly called on Russia to find dirt on Clinton; the cyber unit in Russia's GRU did exactly that, hacking the DNC server and attempting hacks on other computers and servers.

The July 25th call was the culmination of what came before it: Giuliani had been working for months seeking information to place blame on Ukraine for Russia's 2016 shenanigans. To make Trump's 2016 election legitimate vis a vis the Russia connection (place blame elsewhere). Giuliani - who had no legal authority to do business for the U.S., and U.S. Special Envoy to the Ukraine, Kurt Volker, had been part of a 'shadow' effort to get dirt on Biden for Trump's personal gain.

Joining them was Gordon Sondland, Trump's United States Ambassaador to the European Union, who donated $1,000,000 to Trump's inaugural committee.

Trump fired the U.S. Ambassador to the Ukraine because she wanted no part in Trump's illegal efforts. In came Bill Taylor, who Trump appointed as 'acting ambassador.'

In the texts released tonight, Ambassador Taylor specifically refused to take part in the quid pro quo arrangement Trump sought through Giuliani, Volker, Sondland, and others.

After their attempts to find blame in the Ukraine and clear Putin of wrongdoing, Giuliani, Volker, and Sondland then sought to have the Ukraine open an official investigation on Joe Biden, Trump's potential political opponent in 2020 (locking Ukraine in). The Ukraine responded that they'd already investigated this and found no wrong doing.

Trump wasn't happy with that, so he withheld the military aid and dangled it as a carrot - through Giuliani, Volker, and Sondland - that would be released once the Ukraine agreed to find dirt on Biden, which they did not because an exhaustive investigation had already been undertaken, with no wrongdoing found.

Thus, the July 25th call; a shakedown of Ukraine in exchange for their aid in creating dirt on Biden.

All of the above was highly illegal. It's pretty simple.

#38 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 12:19 AM | Reply

Haven't even asked why the military aide was withheld, something even Bolton was curious about.

Just trying to establish 'investigation' = something of political value.

Hoping to take on the military aide portion over the weekend, maybe...at this rate.

#39 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 12:26 AM | Reply

#36 | Posted by rstybeach11

As you say, Biden went at Obama's behest.

Obama and the EU -

#40 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 12:30 AM | Reply

Obama and the EU wanted their corrupt General Prosecutor of Ukraine, Victor Shokin, removed for corruption. Three Republican U.S. Senators wrote the Ukraine government a letter demanding the same.

The Ukraine Parliament eventually fired Shokin.

It had absolutely nothing to do with Biden or his son.

#41 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 12:33 AM | Reply

This 2016 letter proves that GOP attacks on Biden over Ukraine are nonsense

#42 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 12:34 AM | Reply

"Haven't even asked why the military aide was withheld, something even Bolton was curious about."

We should concentrate on this aspect too. He withheld badly needed aid to Ukraine, that Congress had sanctioned, in an attempt to gain a political advantage for his campaign, and in the meantime, who did withholding that aid help? Putin and Russia.

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 12:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He withheld badly needed aid to Ukraine, that Congress had sanctioned, in an attempt to gain a political advantage for his campaign, and in the meantime, who did withholding that aid help? Putin and Russia.

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

And, of course, Trump

To quote former CIA Director George Tenet, "SLAM DUNK"

#44 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 12:37 AM | Reply

He withheld badly needed aid to Ukraine, that Congress had sanctioned, in an attempt to gain a political advantage for his campaign, and in the meantime, who did withholding that aid help? Putin and Russia.

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Giuliani's initial trips to the Ukraine (23 in total) were in an effort to get Putin off the hook and somehow prove Trump was elected without help from Russia.

#45 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 12:41 AM | Reply

We should concentrate on this aspect too. He withheld badly needed aid to Ukraine, that Congress had sanctioned, in an attempt to gain a political advantage for his campaign, and in the meantime, who did withholding that aid help? Putin and Russia.

#43 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

That part just compounds the foundational criminality in the solicitation of investigating (i.e., something of value) Biden. Trying to get the Trumpers around to here first understand the solicitation was meant to produce something of value and even without the actual investigation taking place, Trump's effort is already producing value:

'Warning sign' for Biden on Ukraine controversy, as poll shows plurality of voters believes Trump allegations
www.foxnews.com

#46 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 12:43 AM | Reply

Trump's Ukraine envoy 'warned Giuliani that Biden corruption claims were not credible'

A top US diplomat reportedly toldDonald Trump'spersonal lawyerthat claims aboutJoe Bidenhaving acted corruptly inUkraine"were not credible".

Kurt Volker, the former special envoy to Ukrainewho is named in the whistleblower complaint as having been told to "contain the damage" caused by Rudy Giuliani's outreach to Ukraine's president, told members of Congress he had warned the one-time New York mayor he was receiving incorrect information about Mr Biden.

TheWashington Postreportedthat Mr Volker, who last month quit his post as special envoy after being named in the compliant that accused Mr Trump of seeking Ukraine's help in the 2020 election, told a closed door hearing on Capitol Hill that Mr Giuliani should not trust stories told to him by that country's former top prosecutor.

www.independent.co.uk

#47 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 01:29 AM | Reply

Mr's Volker's comments appear to be at odds with comments made earlier in the day by Republican members of the House who attended Thursday's closed-door session.

Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio, told CNN "not one thing" the ex-diplomat said "aligns with the "Democratic impeachment narrative".

#48 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 01:31 AM | Reply

Schiff Makes Clear All Trump Efforts to Obstruct House Inquiry Will Be Added to Articles of Impeachment

www.commondreams.org

#49 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 01:43 AM | Reply

Schiff Makes Clear All Trump Efforts to Obstruct House Inquiry Will Be Added to Articles of Impeachment

Good!

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-04 01:52 AM | Reply

Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio, told CNN "not one thing" the ex-diplomat said "aligns with the "Democratic impeachment narrative".
#48 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

I read that scoop too. Doesn't help impeachment especially coming from a bureaucrat who appears hostile to Trump.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-04 01:54 AM | Reply

Kurt Volker ... told members of Congress he had warned the one-time New York mayor [Giuliani] he was receiving incorrect information about Mr Biden.

#52 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 02:01 AM | Reply

In May, Ukrainian oligarch said Giuliani was orchestrating a clear conspiracy against Biden'

www.washingtonpost.com

#53 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 02:04 AM | Reply

A great point made on the interwebs:

If Trump actually gave a ---- about corruption in Ukraine then he never would have hired Manafort as his campaign manager. Dude is in jail for corrupt deals in Ukraine. Kaboom.

#54 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 02:05 AM | Reply

Beach,

Whilst I agree Trump is, at best, hypocritical given his Manafort ties, said ties don't give Biden a pass.

Fair or not, to the untrained eye the optics for Biden are not good.

Biden is being knee-capped through this and if another moderate and sane front-runner existed to act as a counter to Warren/Sanders this wouldn't be a big deal. But it is.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-04 02:14 AM | Reply

Beach,

I'm going to bed.

I will make it back to this thread but it may be a couple of days before I'm able to do so.

Please- if you feel I haven't adequately answered your questions please feel free to pin my down.

#56 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-04 02:17 AM | Reply

To expound on #55 it's a big deal because Biden is the only viable moderate left who can claim that mantle based upon current polling.

If it's not Biden it seems like a choice bettween Mao and Pol Pot on the Dem-side.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-04 02:21 AM | Reply

Get back to me when you have anything that isn't inadmissible hearsay, this echoes of all the hearsay that WashPo shouted out during the Russian Collusion debacle which has been shown to be nonsense.

#12 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Lol Mueller confirmed much of the hearsay you guys poo pooed when it was reported.

Are you lying or selectively choosing which hearsay so that you can fallback on this argument that's already failed you?

#58 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-04 07:46 AM | Reply

The money shot text:

Bill, I believe you are incorrectly about President Trump's intentions. The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo's of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign I suggest we stop the back and forth by text If you still have concerns I recommend you give Lisa Kenna or S a call to discuss them directly. Thanks.

Oh my.

#59 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-10-04 08:38 AM | Reply

The money shot text:
#59 |

Please don't use 'money shot' when describing a text about political matters.

You're ruining the phrase for me...

#60 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-10-04 09:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're ruining the phrase for me...
#60 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-10-04 09:21 AM

I figured the George Takei phraseology might make it better for you.

#61 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-10-04 10:45 AM | Reply

#58

LMAO

Point out the so-called "confirmed hearsay" by Mueller and show your work.

This should be fascinating.

Otherwise, stick with Obstruction, it is all carefully laid out for you.

#62 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-04 11:35 AM | Reply

Oh my.
#59 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

The diplomat's lack of concern was solely based on Trump's "crystal clear" assertion that there was no quid pro quo.

That's it.

Oh my.

#63 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 12:18 PM | Reply

Dance righties dance
More and more ad news coming out everyday....keep on dancing

With any luck .. it will be back to the wilderness for republicans for another 40 years

#64 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-10-04 02:30 PM | Reply

Ad = bad

#65 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-10-04 02:31 PM | Reply

"The diplomat's lack of concern was solely based on Trump's "crystal clear" assertion that there was no quid pro quo.
That's it.
Oh my."

Well, not always not always "lack of concern" and not always "crystal clear::

Trump, in August Call With GOP Senator, Denied Official's Claim on Ukraine Aid

President Trump denied that he had linked military aid to Ukraine with a commitment by Kyiv to investigate the 2016 presidential elections when pressed on the matter by a Republican senator in August, according to the lawmaker.

In an interview, Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said he learned of a potential quid pro quo from the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, who told him that aid to Ukraine was tied to the desire by Mr. Trump and his allies to have Kyiv undertake investigations related to the 2016 U.S. elections.

Mr. Johnson raised the issue with Mr. Trump in a phone call on Aug. 31, shortly before the senator was due to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. In the call, Mr. Trump flatly rejected the notion that he directed aides to make military aid to Ukraine contingent on a new investigation by Kyiv, Mr. Johnson said.

Mr. Johnson, who supports aid to Ukraine and is the chairman of a Senate subcommittee with jurisdiction over the region, said Mr. Trump was adamant on the issue. "He said--expletive deleted--No way. I would never do that. Who told you that?" the Wisconsin senator recalled. Mr. Johnson told Mr. Trump that he had learned of the arrangement from Mr. Sondland.


www.wsj.com

I'm sure the President who has told over 12.000 lies to the public since he took office is telling the truth here. But, of course, he is a billionaire (maybe) con artist, so his faithful followers will believe him. As for the rest of us, not so much.

#66 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 02:43 PM | Reply

Ron Johnson called Trump on August 31 about Sondland's concern. When was the "money shot" aka CYA text dated?

#67 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 02:46 PM | Reply

Regarding the WSJ article I just posted:

Ned Price @nedprice

Today's @WSJ scoop makes clear that Sondland's reply wasn't intended for Bill Taylor, the top American diplomat in Ukraine. It was intended for the investigators he had every reason to suspect would soon be on their tail.

#68 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 02:48 PM | Reply

Huh, House Republicans are demanding the release of the full Volker Transcript from yesterday, so far Schiff refuses to do so:

"Republicans are urging Democratic leaders to release the full transcript of Thursday's deposition.

"If we release the transcripts it will have a very chilling effect on impeachment," said Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.).

"The facts we learned today undercut the salacious narrative that Adam Schiff is using to sell his impeachment ambitions. We hope the American people get to read the transcript of today's testimony and see the truth," Reps. Jim Jordan (Ohio) and Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the respective ranking Republicans on the Oversight and Intelligence committees, said in a joint statement.

Thus far, Rep. Schiff's office refuses to comment on this request."

#69 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-04 02:48 PM | Reply

Ryan Goodman @rgoodlaw (Co-editor-in-chief @just_security)

Key item in #VolkerTestimony
He tries to claim "at no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate" Biden.

Who is he fooling?

NEW YORK TIMES had a blockbuster story May 9, 2019 with Giuliani on the record saying this was the point of the effort.

#70 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Regarding the GOP demand for the release of the full transcript:

@DanCrenshawTX
One key fact about yesterday's closed-door witness interview?

Republicans are the ones calling for public release of the deposition transcript.

That should tell you something. Democrats prefer narratives, not facts.
16.2K
6:49 AM - Oct 4, 2019

@RepMarkMeadows
There's a reason why Adam Schiff released cherry-picked text messages and not the transcript of the Volker interview. It's because he's misleading. Again.

The actual interview directly undermined Democrats' impeachment effort.

Release the transcript. Show Americans the truth.

20.5K
6:47 AM - Oct 4, 2019

Oversight Committee Republicans

@GOPoversight
.@HouseDemocrats should be ashamed today. By publicly releasing cherry-picked documents, Democrats have polluted the public discourse with misinformation.

We hope the American people will get to see the full context of Volker's testimony. Will @RepAdamSchiff let it happen?

#71 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-04 02:51 PM | Reply

"Thus far, Rep. Schiff's office refuses to comment on this request."

I do think he should wait until others have testified before releasing Volker's testimony. They are working on releasing all the text messages though:

foreignaffairs.house.gov

#72 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 02:54 PM | Reply

Release the transcript so that everyone who is interviewed afterward can get onboard and tell the same story? Oh please, spare us your faux outrage.

#73 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 02:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#69 | Posted by Rightocenter

I love how you'll cling to the slightest thing that can create any suspicion of democrats, while ignoring massive flashing alerts of crime and corruption and open requests for criminal acts by the sitting republican president.

President today openly commits a crime and ask foreign powers to investigate his rivals.

ROC: Yeah but democrats aren't releasing a full transcript!

#74 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-04 03:13 PM | Reply

RightOCenter, being a professional lawyer, can't help but deflect from this:

30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-04 03:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Peter Baker @peterbakernyt

Volker to resign today as executive director of the McCain Institute amid furor over Ukraine matter.

#76 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 03:17 PM | Reply

Womp womp.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-04 03:19 PM | Reply

Chris Murphy @ChrisMurphyCT

The texts make it pretty clear the aid was being withheld until Zelensky chose to investigate.

But it's never been necessary to show an explicit quid pro quo. It was always implicit, and the fact that our top diplomat believed the quid pro quo existed proves that.

#78 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But it's never been necessary to show an explicit quid pro quo."

They still haven't got that memo.
You'll also notice how eager they are to talk about the Mueller investigation these days!
(While scrupulously omitting the part of the Mueller investigation which says that if Mueller could have exonerated Trump of the allegations being investigated, he would have done so.)

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-04 03:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Well, looks like I was wrong:

Volker's testimony:

d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net

#80 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 03:37 PM | Reply

Shannon Pettypiece @spettypi (NBC News)

On Biden accusations "I believed that these accusations by Mr. Lutsenko were themselves self-serving, intended to make himself appear valuable to the United States, so that the United States might weigh in against his being removed from office

Volker adds: "I have known former Vice President Biden for 24 years, and the suggestion that he would be influenced in his duties as Vice President by money for his son simply has no credibility to me. I know him as a man of integrity and dedication to our country."

#81 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 03:41 PM | Reply

Sorry, not Volker's testimony, his statement.

Amb Taylor getting it in writing:

Michael McFaul @McFaul

Amb Taylor (USMA grad, longtime USG public servant) to Amb Sondland (Trump funder, real estate business person, serving in Brussels, not Kyiv or DC): "As I said on the phone , I think its crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign." MONEY QUOTE !

#82 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 03:47 PM | Reply

Trump, in August Call With GOP Senator, Denied Official's Claim on Ukraine Aid
www.wsj.com

...President Trump denied that he had linked military aid to Ukraine with a commitment by Kyiv to investigate the 2016 presidential election when pressed on the matter by a Republican senator in August, according to the lawmaker.

In an interview, Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said he learned of a potential quid pro quo from the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, who told him that aid to Ukraine was tied to the desire by Mr. Trump and his allies to have Kyiv undertake investigations that the president has sought....


#83 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-04 03:58 PM | Reply

#72

Ofc we are going to release the text messages since that advances The Narrative. But God forbid that we release anything else!

-The House Majority

#84 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-04 03:58 PM | Reply

#74

And I love how you never want to see or acknowledge evidence that is counter to The Narrative that you have been force fed to believe.

#85 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-04 03:59 PM | Reply

"They still haven't got that memo."

Justice Kennedy, we're going to be missing him more and more in the months ahead:

Brit Hume @brithume
If no quid pro quo, what we're talking about here is a campaign finance violation. And even that is arguable.

Harry Litman @harrylitman (Former US Attorney)

.@brithume , that's just mistaken under the law. As Justice Kennedy wrote re federal bribery statute: agreement may be implied from the public official's words and actions, as "otherwise the law's effect could be frustrated by knowing winks and nods." (Evans v. US).

#86 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 04:00 PM | Reply

@#83

More ...

Ron Johnson says Sondland told him of possible Ukraine quid pro quo
www.axios.com

...Sen. Ron Johnson (R.-Wis.) told the Wall Street Journal that he learned of a possible quid pro quo between the Trump administration and Ukraine's government from EU Ambassador Gordon Sondland.

The big picture: Johnson said that he pressed President Trump on the issue, which allegedly linked the distribution of $400 million in U.S. military aid with a Ukrainian investigation of former Vice President Joe Biden, in an Aug. 31 phone call. "He said ... 'No way. I would never do that. Who told you that?'" Johnson told the Journal of his conversation with the president....


#87 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-04 04:02 PM | Reply

Also, apparently when looking into quid pro quo cases, courts take the concept of duress into account:

Asha Rangappa @AshaRangappa_

Yes, as I explained this morning, a way to understand the quid-pro-quo is to look at the legal concept of "duress." When someone is acting under coercive conditions, the voluntariness of their actions must be questioned (as courts routinely do). Same with Ukraine.

#88 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 04:06 PM | Reply

Ofc we are going to release the text messages since that advances The Narrative. But God forbid that we release anything else!

-The House Majority

#84 | Posted by Rightocenter

Of course we'll talk about what the dems wont release because that advances our narrative, but god forbid we talk about what trump did.

#89 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-04 04:08 PM | Reply

Tucker Carlson: Trump 'Should Not Have' Encouraged Foreign Head to Investigate Biden, 'No Way To Spin This as Good'

(Though, he does not believe it is an impeachable offense.)
www.mediaite.com

#90 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 04:09 PM | Reply

Why are Trump's defenders on this site SO DISHONEST about the gravity of his behavior? Really sad.

#91 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-10-04 04:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why are Trump's defenders on this site SO DISHONEST about the gravity of his behavior? Really sad."

They aren't even honest about being Trump's defenders!

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-04 04:20 PM | Reply

Why are Trump's defenders on this site SO DISHONEST about the gravity of his behavior? Really sad.

#91 | Posted by moder8

What else are they gonna do? Admit they support a crook and con man who craps on the constitution?

I'm just surprised the log on at all. All the sensible repubs vanished after his election.

#93 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-04 04:21 PM | Reply

"All the sensible repubs vanished after his election."

Ouch.

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-04 04:24 PM | Reply

HEY RSTY,

Per our conversation last night with Avi:

Asha Rangappa @AshaRangappa_

THREAD. One thing not to overlook in understanding the significance of the texts is that in addition to soliciting section assistance and abusing his power, Trump was attempting to employ covert propaganda against the American public:

2. As I note in the clip above, one thing the texts make clear is that the administration wasn't just interested in Ukraine investigating Biden -- they were specifically interested in the *messaging* about the investigation. If what you care about is "corruption," you would

3. be satisfied with an assurance that Ukraine was going to investigate. Instead, the Trump admin doesn't care so much about the investigation itself, but making sure that the fact that it is being investigated is *being broadcast* to the audience they care about: American voters

4. IMPORTANTLY, they are very invested in the message being crafted in a *specific way* -- tailored to Trump's benefit by maximizing the "seeds of doubt" on both Biden and the 2016 election. It's being drafted by Trump's personal lawyer!

5. In addition, the message was going to be delivered as an official statement from Ukraine, with NO INDICATION that the United States either precipitated or participated in its creation in any way. This, folks, is called black propaganda.

6. Black propaganda attempts to conceal the true source of information, so that the target cannot accurately assess the credibility of the message or the motives of the source behind it. Trump wanted to cloak his own role and motives behind a statement of a foreign country

7. The goal here is to manipulate the American public into to thinking that Ukraine had *independently* reached the same conclusions about the Russia investigation, and/or uncovered criminal leads about Biden. Trump could then use this to bolster his own views

8. Not for nothing, but a good chunk of the cases I investigated in the FBI were "perception management" (propaganda) cases. We actively try to STOP foreign countries from doing this to us, because we believe that part of an open society and marketplace of ideas is

9. ensuring that people know the true source of information in order to assess credibility and critically evaluate the content (FARA originated in 1938 as a way to combat Nazi propaganda, be requiring state-sponsored content to be identified as such)

10. Basically, you have the Trump admin attempting to conduct an illegal covert psyop on the American public, using officials from the State Department and his own attorney to do it. It's literally a version of what Russia did in 2016. /END


twitter.com

#95 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-04 04:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#95 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

That is absolutely damning, yet also makes the most sense using the least amount of assumptions.

Clearly, something of value was being discussed. And the perception of an investigation was something Trump deemed valuable, regardless of any DR's feelings on the matter (here's looking at you, AVI).

#96 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 04:40 PM | Reply

House Intel Republican: Texts Between U.S. Diplomats About Trump are Damning'

Texas Republican Will Hurd said the texts exchanged between U.S. diplomats over President Donald Trump's efforts to have Ukraine investigate a political rival are "damning."
www.mediaite.com

#97 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 04:51 PM | Reply

#95 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

That is way to complex for joe schmoe to understand.

All he will understand is: trump corrupt, biden corrupt, might as well stick with trump.

And biden has handled this horribly, hiding all week instead of swinging back and getting ahead of this thing.

Dems need a better nominee.

#98 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-04 05:04 PM | Reply

Drop in polls, Biden's 'devastating' fundraising haul a loud warning for once-unrivaled front-runner
www.foxnews.com

Even the perception of an investigation amounts to 'something of value,' clearly.

#99 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 05:04 PM | Reply

@#82 ... not Volker's testimony, his statement. ...

Thanks for posting the link (in #80) to the 11 page opening statement of fmr Amb Volker.

After reading it, I am not surprised that Rep Jordan said what he said. Rep Jordan seems to be continuing his efforts to cover-up what Pres Trump has done. It reminds me a lot of how he questioned Mr Cohen during the hearing a few months ago. He did not seem to be interested in what happened, but he did seem to be interested in changing the focus away from what happened.

#100 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-04 05:11 PM | Reply

Biden absolutely bragged about a quid pro quo arrangement - fire this prosecutor or I will withhold Billions in funds. Said prosecutor was fired and said prosecutor was investigating potentially illegal activities of a company that Biden's son was drawing an extremely lucrative salary in spite of any kind of experience or expertise to justify such compensation.

#31 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Nope.

The probe was originally about the Ministry of Ecology giving permits to the company in 2010 and 2012 before young Biden joined in 2014.

The probe was actually already over before Biden along with half the world and a bunch of Republicans demanded the prosecutor be fired.

So want to try again?

#101 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-10-04 05:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Biden absolutely bragged about a quid pro quo arrangement"

He grabbed that quid pro quo arrangement by the -----!

And you know what he did next? He boofed it.

Too bad our Attorney General doesn't seem interested in prosecuting that crime. Must be a Deep State AG that somehow managed to rise up from the muck after Trump drained the swamp.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-04 05:24 PM | Reply

Top CIA Lawyer Reportedly Made a Criminal Referral on the Whistleblower's Complaint About Trump

A new report says that the CIA's top attorney made a criminal referral to the DOJ about the whistleblower's complaint that President Donald Trump abused the office.

According to NBC News, CIA general counsel Courtney Simmons Elwood " a Trump appointee " made the referral, signifying that she and other senior CIA officials concluded that a potential crime was committed. The DOJ, however, did not conduct an investigation and closed the case.

The referral makes Elwood one of several Trump appointees who deemed the whistleblower's complaint credible, and merited further investigation.


www.mediaite.com

#103 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-04 06:07 PM | Reply

The DOJ, however, did not conduct an investigation and closed the case.

#103 | Posted by rstybeach11

Shocker. What is the process for removing a corrupt attorney general?

The fact that repubs can claim the mueller investigation exonerated trump while barr was running it is laughable.

#104 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-04 06:11 PM | Reply

The probe was originally about the Ministry of Ecology giving permits to the company in 2010 and 2012 before young Biden joined in 2014.

The probe was actually already over before Biden along with half the world and a bunch of Republicans demanded the prosecutor be fired.

#101 | Posted by Sycophant

THIS

#105 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-04 06:13 PM | Reply

How will Drumpf ever recover after the 714th sure-fire, caught-red-handed scandal which has been presented to us by the activist left dinosaur media? If you leftists really want him gone, simply publicize his horrendous pro-isntreali agenda.

#106 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-10-06 03:13 AM | Reply

"How will Drumpf ever recover after the 714th sure-fire, caught-red-handed scandal which has been presented to us by the activist left dinosaur media? "

How will Drumpf escape the clutches of the law this time?

By maintaining the support of his Deplorables. Of course. Who knows what it will be this time? What will the "dog whistle" look like this time? Breaking the law on tv " on the White House Lawn is tough to beat. But it is a creative tactic to try and normalize Humpy's criminal behavior.

Maybe he will order his brown shirts at the CBP to torture a few migrant women or children. Or better yet. Torture a few of them fake journalists. That will surely get them all wet. They love hearing that CBP now is harassing them at our borders. Just making America great again.

Whatever it is it will be very entertaining. Are we not entertained yet? I know I am. Like a slow motion car crash. I can't turn away. And even if I do. It's everywhere. So settle in. Enjoy the show! You paid for it.

#107 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-10-06 05:59 AM | Reply

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