Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 09, 2019

This is what happened the last time Trump invited Erdogan to the United States in May 2017: Washington D.C. police were forced to engage with the security team of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday during a clash between protesters that took place on the same day President Donald Trump hosted the Turkish leader at the White House.

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Pres Putin wants Turkey out of NATO.

Turkey is a chokepoint for the Russian subs leaving the newly-acquired base in Crimea. Russia wants that year-round free route to the open Atlantic, so Pres Putin wants Turkey out of NATO and into his influence.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-09 12:21 AM | Reply

Turkey is a chokepoint for the Russian subs leaving the newly-acquired base in Crimea. Russia wants that year-round free route to the open Atlantic, so Pres Putin wants Turkey out of NATO and into his influence.

Let's hope it happens as soon as possible.

The international migraine, called "USA" needs to be put back into it's box.

#2 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-10-09 01:27 AM | Reply

his security staff violently beat up protesters on the streets of D.C.

What else were they supposed to do seeing how poor and sh^%%y the DC cops security was?

And DOTARD threatens "ruin" on Turkey? The same DOTARD who declared "peace talks with the taliban are dead!" and then came crawling back a month later? LOL

He ain't called "The DOTARD" for nothing!

#3 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-10-09 01:33 AM | Reply

Turkey should leave NATO IMO... I prefer our allies actually be our friends ... or else they really can't be trusted anyways

#4 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-10-09 01:40 AM | Reply

@#4 ... I prefer our allies actually be our friends ...

Then why are we not currently treating our allies as friends?

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-09 01:43 AM | Reply

Then why are we not currently treating our allies as friends?

Lack of ability.

Lack of sincerity.

Lack of vision.

#6 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-10-09 01:48 AM | Reply

#5 Swamplandia. Trump is an enemy agent sent to destroy our country from within

#7 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-10-09 01:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Trump was sworn in 2 days after Russia signed a 49 year deal to build a full fledged naval base on the Mediterranean in Tartus, Syria, with instant access to the Med and Atlantic than having to traverse the Bosporus thru Turkey from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. The site was a small resupply/repair facility until then.

Erdogan's becoming an authoritarian means teaming up with Russia to wipe the Kurds from Syria is what may be the start of a lovely partnership against America's interests.

#8 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-09 02:09 AM | Reply

@#6

Lack of ability.

No, this is not the reason. The United States can do it, if our government wants to do it.

Lack of sincerity.

Currently, yes. Foreign policy seems to change on the whim of a tweet. Our allies have grave difficulty knowing what is meant from one tweet to the next.

Lack of vision.

Absolutely. The consequences of foreign policy by tweet are not understood by those who espouse such a policy, or {very frightening} are understood but are trivialized.

In spite of the many proclamations that the United States is now respected on this Blue Marble, I have looked for and have not found any evidence to confirm that assertion.



#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-09 02:15 AM | Reply

In spite of the many proclamations that the United States is now respected on this Blue Marble, I have looked for and have not found any evidence to confirm that assertion.

The last time the United States was REALLY respected was in the 60s and early 70s.... Cold War and Space Race and Hippie stuff and Weed and some great music.

I guess back then the world didn't know any better.

Reagan brought back some respect.. the 80early 90s were phenomenal for the USA... even killed off it's worst enemy, the USSR and started the irreversible process of the Berlin Wall coming down.

And then came MTV and now Social Media and Monica Lewinsky somewhere in between bye bye respect... LOL

#10 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-10-09 02:31 AM | Reply

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@#10 ... Monica Lewinsky somewhere in between ...

I don't view that as an "abandoning our allies" type of problem. It is more of a "good God, is there enough Lysol on this planet to clean the Resolute desk" type of problem.

i.e., foreign policy vs. internal grossness.

Big difference.

Let's not conflate them.

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-10-09 02:53 AM | Reply

White House says Turkey's Erdogan to visit Nov. 13. What?? Trump is changing his modus operandi and wants to insult dignataries face to face?

#12 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2019-10-09 06:51 AM | Reply

Isn't all nations of NATO allies?

What are Turkey's other allies in NATO doing?

How about the UN? What are they doing?

We foot the bill, blood, flesh, and money all the time.

It's time the US stepped back and let the next 20+ nations behins her act.

I'd say beside, but when has any stepped forward without the US?

#13 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 07:06 AM | Reply

Trump has sold out America and now wants to parade the proof before us on American soil. The protests should be so massive that it embarrasses both Trump and Ergodan, who we do not want to be visiting our country. Why do we want to honor a dictator? Oh wait, that's right, because Trump wants to be our dictator. Trump voters don't believe in democracy and they won't have to tolerate democracy much longer thanks to Trump.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-09 07:08 AM | Reply

GW said the US should have no allies except in trade. By taking on allies we take on their enemies.

As a part of NATO and the UN, enough! Let the other nations lead. The US needs a break from involvement.

#15 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 07:17 AM | Reply

The US needs a break from involvement.

#15 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 07:17 AM | Reply

WHAT is it about what Trump is doing in Syria that makes PETROUS think anyone is going to catch a break?

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 07:46 AM | Reply

"As a part of NATO and the UN, enough! Let the other nations lead. The US needs a break from involvement."

Great thought, just should have had it before the Kurds put their lives on the line. You can't turn back the clock, we wanted their help to fight ISIS now we just desert them? That's just sick, BTW, they hold something like 60,000 ISIS fighters in their prisons. They have already said that if they are confronted with massive Turkish forces they will just leave them there and they will figure out how to free each other and resume operating as ISIS. Great plan Orange Hitler. ISIS would never have existed if Dubya hadn't lied us into a war in Iraq. It can be said that Republicans are responsible for this mess and Orange Hitler is just making it worse.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-09 08:13 AM | Reply

"That's just sick, BTW"

Yes, it is. And by all appearances some people are enjoying it.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 08:43 AM | Reply

It's their home, not ours.

Their war, not ours.

Their lives, not ours.

Do you see the trend?

Their National Security, not ours.

There are far more countries nearby that should be engaged, not the US.

Any President that gets us out of a war is great. We need out of Europe, too. WWII ended in 45.

We have a deal with Japan. We can negotiate a new deal and get out

#19 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 09:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Want to cut military spending, get out of the war zone.

#20 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 09:21 AM | Reply

It was Iraq's home not ours but we went in and destroyed their military and fired their police and those were the people who became ISIS. Then ISIS became quite powerful, not just in Iraq but also in neighboring countries. Petrous thinks we can go in and destroy other countries who never attacked us and have no responsibility for what happens as a result. Simpletons should not indulge in foreign policy, Petrous is a simpleton. He sees things as he wants to see them not through the lens of our real responsibilities. Colin Powell warned us, it is the "Pottery Barn Rule," like it or not, we caused this to happen and now deserting the Kurds is just plain dishonorable. But, we have done it before under George H.W. Bush and thousands of them were slaughtered by Saddam Hussein's troops. The time to preach about staying out of other nation's wars is before we start wars in those countries because we have Neocons with eyes on their oil reserves.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-09 09:34 AM | Reply

"The US needs a break from involvement.
#15 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 07:17 AM | Reply"

We had a break, it was the day before we invaded Iraq because of the lies we were told about their nuclear plans. You want a break after we destroyed their country, it doesn't work that way.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-09 09:37 AM | Reply

Boohoo. The pottery barn rule again.

Suck it up buttercup.

Iraq is a mess. Lots of nations involved, including Iraq.

Fine, the bed'a a mess.

Maybe next time the citizens will revolt.

The US is not their hero in their own revolution.

Want to reduce military spending and spend that money on education, healthcare, etc at home? Stop asking for that money for war.

We leave, the money isnt needed for war.

#23 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 09:39 AM | Reply

Boohoo. The pottery barn rule again.

Suck it up buttercup.

#23 | Posted by Petrous at

I'd like you to say, directly, what NERF refused to.

You're fine with a massacre and genocide of the Kurds, aren't you? For the reasons you just listed?

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 09:48 AM | Reply

Surprisingly hard to cough the truth up, isn't it?

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 09:52 AM | Reply

If there is a massacre, who is doing it?
Genocide? Who is doing it?

The US is going home. Not our war.
You want to defend them? Go ahead and get a flight.

Let the MIC lose money. That money goes to housing, education, healthcare at home. The money isnt needed for our soldiers if they are not there.

#26 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 09:56 AM | Reply

"Any President that gets us out of a war is great. We need out of Europe, too. WWII ended in 45."

You are so wrong it is pathetic.

World War II never ended. We are still fighting it. We do not have a League of Nations strong enough to ever prevent it.

Here is an interesting little factoid.

"America Has Been At War 93% of the Time " 222 Out of 239 Years " Since 1776", i.e. the U.S. has only been at peace for less than 20 years total since its birth.

We are rarely not at war.

Now for extra credit. Can you tell the class which years those were that we were not at war??

That is a tough one because the definition of gets tricky when we speak of a Cold War or North Korea (we are still technically at war with them but we just agreed to stop shooting for now)

Now here is where the trolls come in and pick apart the definition of war and peace and the idea of world war and Cold War. And blah blah blah. The bombshell are falling and guns are killing and people are killing people all over the world. And we cannot stop it. And America is not immune. It has reached our shores and we have already struck back. Like a wounded (drunken) dragon lashing out randomly. Futilely. We may have woke up too late to the danger. Some of refuse to wake up. The world is still at war. We are definitely NOT at World Peace.

Yet.

But there are those of who can still Imagine.

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-10-09 09:59 AM | Reply

The money isnt needed for our soldiers if they are not there

They will suddenly be cost free?

#28 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-10-09 09:59 AM | Reply

#26 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-

PETROUS. I'm challenging you not to be a coward.

The question is: Is PETROUS fine that the Kurds are massacred or exterminated for the reasons PETROUS listed?

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 10:00 AM | Reply


Oops. Bold off please. And thank you.

#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-10-09 10:00 AM | Reply

"The US is going home. Not our war."

Tail between our legs, in shame. And the world watches. And we weren't suffering heavy casualties in Syria because it was the Kurds doing almost all of the fighting on the ground. We supplied air cover and bombing. Where were you when we were invading Iraq Petrous? I was in the street protesting it because, just like millions of others, we could see the disaster Bush was leading us in to.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-09 10:00 AM | Reply

This is interesting, PETROUS. Your sick pride won't let you say exactly what you feel or mean.

#32 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 10:02 AM | Reply

Is PETROUS fine that the Kurds are massacred or exterminated for the reasons PETROUS listed?

#29 | Posted by Zed

You do understand, my friend, that you can always say "no"?

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 10:03 AM | Reply

So you want the US to stay, kill people and be killed, and i want our soldiers to come home.

You all are sick.

You're right about the US constantly at war.

Time to end that tradition.

Tail between our legs?

Not in the least. Should we go back to Vietnam and thump our chests?

Should we restart Korea?

Peace over war.

You want war or peace.

I prefer peace over pieces of our returning soldiers.

Support the wars, support the MIC, your allegience to death of our soldiers is disheartening

#34 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 10:20 AM | Reply

You all are sick.

#34 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09

You don't get to make that accusation until after you, PETROUS, state whether it's fine if the Kurds get massacred or exterminated for the reasons PETROUS lists?

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 10:23 AM | Reply

Now, it isn't necessary true that the Kurds will be massacred or exterminated. The question is: is PETROUS fine if that happens?

#36 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 10:25 AM | Reply

OK, sacrifice the lives of thousands of Kurds but realize there are upwards of 60,000 ISIS fighters currently imprisoned by them who will be free to begin wreaking havoc again and make our last 5 years of fighting them a waste of time, lives and money. Timelines....something folks like Petrous don't like to deal with. Everything happening today in the ME is connected to our invasion of Iraq. I can't honestly say I know your position on the Iraq invasion Petrous so I won't pretend I do, but many here called those of us opposed to it traitors. Too long ago now to remember who said what, I don't even know if you posted here back then.

#37 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-09 10:32 AM | Reply

Yes, let them die fighting for their freedom, let them fight for their lives. Let any nation choose to take sides. You make the choice to sacrifice lives for them.

See. That was easy. Make a choice. My son to die or theirs.

Your turn Zed. Will you go and fight for them and possibly die, or will you choose to send your neighbor to die in your place.

You can choose. Go fight if its that important.

I choose to watch then die and keep my son safe until my country needs him, and I, and the rest of my American family.

This isnt our war. Let other countries claim the great humanitarian...and kill people to stop others from killing.

#38 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 10:35 AM | Reply

but many here called those of us opposed to it traitors...

#37 | POSTED BY DANNI

I don't recall 'traitor' being trotted out all that much. But 'Saddam's butt boy' was fairly common.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-09 10:36 AM | Reply

ZED is obsessively presenting the classic "false dilemma" fallacy as some sort of argument. As if the lack of presence of American troops in Syria will definitely lead to an absolute worst case scenario.

As in every military situation that involves human lives you weigh the possible outcomes and then make a decision that, in the long run, benefits your own people, and then your allies, and then humanity at large. I believe, by and large, Turkey to be a somewhat rational player in this respect. If something extreme were to happen to the Kurds, Turkey would be held accountable via internal political upheaval, potential future acts of terrorism against regional interests, and external economic and political pressure by their allies and neighbors" therefore I am confident a worst case scenario will NOT happen.

If anyone seems really set on being OK with a Kurdish genocide it is ZED" just so he can say to all who don't subscribe to his endless
fallacious arguments in rationalizing open-ended, interventionist debacles " see! I told you so!

So, to play the game Zed wants to play" yes, I am OK with the nonexistent Kurdish genocide happening because it hasn't happened and it won't happen, at least in this current scenario.

Resume trolling...

#40 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 10:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It may be that ZED won't reply because he has already boarded a plane to travel overseas to fight alongside the Kurds against the genocide-loving Turks.

But if he does, that's quite telling in itself.

#41 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 10:41 AM | Reply

Danni, I supported moving Iraq out of Kuwait. I believed Saddam should have been removed then.

As for the 2nd time round, removing Saddam to me was right...he started this crap the 1st time. But, I was against staying and nation building.

No, once removed, I wanted us out. Let the citizens rebuild what they want as a nation.

I believe we should be out of Germany. WWII is over. I've been told we have an agreement with Japan. I would renegotiate any deals and get our troops out, close the bases.

I believe we spend too much on military. Better use at home.

Trump is something we've never thought to see. I want both parties to issue subpoenas and settle this once and for all. Too much damage without evidence filled with holes. Frustrating. I've been on juries of life and death. We are there. Need both sides to present everything as done in a trial. I cant be a juror with this mess. I refuse to be a defendent or prosecutor. I am a voter; therefore, a juror.

#42 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 10:42 AM | Reply

"I believe we should be out of Germany. WWII is over. I've been told we have an agreement with Japan. I would renegotiate any deals and get our troops out, close the bases."

The richest country in the world doesn't keep every other nation from trying to ---- it's throat without providing a fair amount of protection. I suppose altruistic aid might come in other forms but we don't really have the stomach for that either.

#43 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-09 10:56 AM | Reply

I think people believe WWIII will occur if the US isnt there and we'd have to go back over there.

I heard in a movie, "Why do we have to do this all over again?"

I dont know.

#44 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-10-09 11:09 AM | Reply

ZED is obsessively presenting the classic "false dilemma" fallacy as some sort of argument.

#40 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019

It's not a false dilemma, or even an argument.

The question was asked to see if you and PETROUS would take responsibility for your thoughts and feelings.

The result of the experiment? Like Hell you will.

#45 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 11:11 AM | Reply

The Kurds are already catching hell. Let's see if the Great and Powerful Wizard of Trump is going to punish Turkey for disobeying him.

#46 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 11:13 AM | Reply

Experiment? LOL.

ZED, you don't make a very good social laboratory technician.

Resume your plane ride to Kurdistan.

#47 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 11:15 AM | Reply

Resume your plane ride to Kurdistan.

#47 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019

Resume your commitment not to feel guilty about non-existent things. I, too, never feel guilt about things that don't happen.

But if what is feared becomes real then I really don't expect you to feel guilty then, either.

Tell me I'm wrong.

#48 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 11:18 AM | Reply

#48 and if that scenario comes to pass, I'll make sure I send you the password to my account so you can login as me and write and post whatever you see fit.

#49 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 11:27 AM | Reply

and if that scenario comes to pass, I'll make sure I send you the password to my account so you can login as me and write and post whatever you see fit.

#49 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09

I'd much prefer to ignore you as a gesture of disgust.

#50 | Posted by Zed at 2019-10-09 12:18 PM | Reply

"I'd much prefer to ignore you"

I'm sure if it was in your power of will to do so, you would.

#51 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 12:35 PM | Reply

We're fighting ISIS over there so we don't have to fight them here. Nerf and Petrous don't seem to understand that. They think these problems will go away if we ignore them. The opposite is true.

#52 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-09 11:38 PM | Reply

We foot the bill, blood, flesh, and money all the time.

It's time the US stepped back and let the next 20+ nations behins her act.

I'd say beside, but when has any stepped forward without the US?

#13 | Posted by Petrous

Great. If we're getting out we should cut our DoD budget, no? How much, 50%? 70%?

If righties are suddenly going to be isolationists, maybe they'll suddenly find their fiscal sense and dial back the DoD funding.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-10 12:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If righties are suddenly going to be isolationists, maybe they'll suddenly find their fiscal sense and dial back the DoD funding.
#53 | POSTED BY JPW

right after we cut BigBird ...

#54 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-10 12:38 AM | Reply

Fox News report:

Jennifer Griffin @JenGriffinFNC

I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."

This veteran US Special forces soldier has trained indigenous forces on multiple continents. He is on the frontlines tonight and said they are witnessing Turkish atrocities.

"Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It's horrible," this military source on the ground told me.

"We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement. There was NO threat to the Turks - NONE - from this side of the border." "This is insanity," the concerned US service member told me. ""I don't know what they call atrocities but they are happening."

This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us."
"They are not abandoning our side (yet)."
The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."

Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were "surprised" by the decision Sunday night.
Of the President's decision: "He doesn't understand the problem. He doesn't understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level headed actor."

Acc to this US soldier on the ground tonight in Syria: "The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone. "It's a shame. It's horrible." "This is not helping the ISIS fight." Re: ISIS prisoners: "Many of them will be free in the coming days and weeks."

This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."
Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.


twitter.com

#55 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-10-10 12:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

right after we cut BigBird ...

#54 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Or maybe federal flood insurance and see how long coastal development continues.

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-10 12:45 AM | Reply

#55 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

I guess Fox really is turning on Trump.

Question will be is it enough to defang the monster they've recklessly created.

#57 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-10 12:56 AM | Reply

Fox knows he's a little bitch and he'll do whatever it takes to get re-elected. This is his public humiliation and he will fall in line soon. He has too many masters.

#58 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-10 09:09 AM | Reply

White House says Turkey's Erdogan to visit Nov. 13

Will his bodyguards assault people again and get off scot free like last time?

Feds Drop Prosecution Of 7 Turkish Bodyguards Involved In Assault Of Protesters

Federal prosecutors have dismissed all criminal charges against seven bodyguards of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan who were involved in the beating of protesters in Washington, D.C., last year.

www.npr.org

#59 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-10 01:01 PM | Reply

The last time that fascist visited his henchmen beat up the protestors on US soil. I save if he comes that people should raise bloody hell and give them back what they gave those protestors. Keep that fascist out of the USA.

#60 | Posted by tknees at 2019-10-10 05:47 PM | Reply

All the right wing ex neocon chickenhawks coming on here declaring they want peace is a sick joke. Where was that thought before Iraq? ------- hypocrites you started this mess and now wish to run away like a real coward? Of course you are.

#61 | Posted by tknees at 2019-10-10 05:56 PM | Reply

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