Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 09, 2019

Drivers in the U.S. may one day no longer have to crane their necks to check their blind spots if regulators agree to let high-tech cameras and screens replace the humble side-view mirror.

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Some part of me likes the idea. Some part of me says technology can and will fail. And on cars, tech is very expensive to repair.

Then again, by some predictions we're only a couple of decades away from nobody owning their own car.

#1 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-10-09 03:51 PM | Reply

They should replace every mirror and window with cameras and send the feed to an app on my smartphone so I can see where I am going while I am busy texting.

#2 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 04:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Mirrors: work until they're broken
Cameras: work until they're broken

Seems simple: perform an analysis on which technology is more likely to be rendered unusable while driving, and choose the other one.

#3 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-09 04:17 PM | Reply

Just another gadget to add to the cost od a car and another think that can go wrong. They can take their high expense crap and put the stuff where it hurts the most.

#4 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-10-09 04:18 PM | Reply

"Just another gadget to add to the cost od a car and another think that can go wrong"

You said it. As my 134 year old great-great-grandfather is wont to say while cantankerously rocking away in his rocking chair on that creaky old confederate-flag-draped Alabamee porch of his: "They shoulda never invented that goddam wheel-- look at how many dead people from car accidents and licensed ------- and women and wasted taxpayer dollars it has gotten us!! It's all a damned Yankee liberal trick!"

#5 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 04:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Seems simple: perform an analysis on which technology is more likely to be rendered unusable while driving, and choose the other one.

#3 | POSTED BY JOE "

Exactly. As a former ET on an oil rig, I worked on a lot of cameras to keep them working. And though mirrors aren't a part of an ET's bailiwick, I've never heard of one of them failing.

The more complex a device, the more likely it is to fail.

#6 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 04:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I have an almost 20 year old pickup. I've never had any major problem with it. Of course I've taken it in for shocks, brakes, and such, but never an engine or major system problem. I asked my mechanic if I should trade it in because of its age. He told me no way. He said he sees far more problems on the newer vehicles than he does on the ones of the age of mine. It now has 280,000 miles. My mechanic told me if I keep taking care of it, I'll get that much again with minimum $$$ spent.

A year or two ago a man came to my door wanting to buy my truck. I told him no way. He offered me twice the blue boo for it. He cited the same reason my mechanic told me.

Both my sons have more modern pickups, ~2014 era. Their vehicles are always in the shop.

Not only is it great having a dependable vehicle, I haven't had a car payment in 16 years. (I paid cash for my Jeep)

---- new vehicles and their needless electronics.

#7 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 04:31 PM | Reply

---- new vehicles and their needless electronics.

Agreed. I gravitate toward vehicles with a real key, real buttons and knobs to control radio/climate, etc. I don't need to be cycling through endless menus on a filthy touchscreen just to crank up the heat while i'm going 80mph on the highway.

I've driven rental cars with "lane assist" that is more of a distraction than a safety feature. I'll never buy a car like this.

#8 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-09 04:34 PM | Reply

The thing is is if the camera fails you can just go out and buy a mirror if you don't want to spend the money to fix the camera system.

You could even go to a junk yard and get a mirror off an old car.

#9 | Posted by prius04 at 2019-10-09 04:35 PM | Reply

"The thing is is if the camera fails...
#9 | POSTED BY PRIUS04 "

You should have said "when the camera fails." Because it will.

How many mirror failures are you aware of?

#10 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 04:38 PM | Reply

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"I gravitate toward vehicles with a real key, real buttons and knobs to control radio/climate, etc. I don't need to be cycling through endless menus on a filthy touchscreen just to crank up the heat while i'm going 80mph on the highway."

Indeed. That's another thing. My truck has is pretty much all manual. I of course have power steering and power brakes, but the windows, radio, even transmission all manual. My only "luxury" is a cup holder. LOL

I admit one thing that would be nice is being able to roll down the passenger window from the driver's seat. It's awkward and even dangerous if I'm driving to do that. Other than that, I don't miss all the BS at all.

#11 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 04:43 PM | Reply

"How many mirror failures are you aware of?"

In my personal experience, just one. Coincidentally, it was the same day I found out that I was a vampire.

#12 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-10-09 05:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

My only concern with screens is it's just more places for ads to be forced on us.

Also, at least for me, perspective and sense of distance is really poor via camera. Just turn your damn head and make a quick check you have enough distance to move over.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-09 05:05 PM | Reply

I've driven rental cars with "lane assist" that is more of a distraction than a safety feature. I'll never buy a car like this.

#8 | Posted by JOE

I actually like the lane change assist features. Not so much the squawking alarm part of it, but the light on the mirror indicating your blind spot is occupied is nice for me.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-09 05:07 PM | Reply

The reverse cameras are great. You don't have to worry about running over your toddler grandkid. You don't want to live with that,I don't care how careful you think you are.

#15 | Posted by bruceaz at 2019-10-09 05:10 PM | Reply

I avoid cars with electric windows after having to replace the motor on them multiple times

Simple is always better IMO

#16 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-10-09 05:15 PM | Reply

"I avoid cars with electric windows after having to replace the motor on them multiple times
Simple is always better IMO

#16 | POSTED BY 503JC69 AT 2019-10-09 05:15 PM |"

I've heard the same thing from many other people. Another thing about electric windows: It may be an obsessive thing with me that's highly unlikely to happen, but if I somehow end up in water, a manual window will still work whereas the electric one has a high probability of shorting out and failing, especially in salt or brackish water.

#17 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 05:17 PM | Reply

"Simple is always better IMO

#16 | POSTED BY 503JC69 A"

Exactly. K.I.S.S.

#18 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 05:18 PM | Reply

^ A human cannot provide enough strength to open a car door even in a couple of feet of water. Even 1 PSI, (about 2.25 feet of water) when multiplied by the total area of a door is too much for even a muscle man to push open. You have to roll down the window to escape.

#19 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-09 05:22 PM | Reply

I prefer voluntary simplicity over involuntary complexity.

#20 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-09 05:39 PM | Reply

I gravitate toward vehicles with a real key, real buttons and knobs to control radio/climate, etc.

#8 | POSTED BY JOE

Heck, when you first showed up on this site you were driving a stick (as was I and as am I currently).

#21 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-09 06:17 PM | Reply

If cameras were great, you wouldn't see all the additional mirrors on big rigs.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-10-10 07:45 AM | Reply

How many mirror failures are you aware of?

Quite a few actually.... sine the 60's, ALL review mirrors have been glued to windshields. You CAN NOT drill any type of hole as it will expand... just like a star crack.

Eventually the glue gets old and the mirror fall off. It's costs about 80 bucks for Safelite to glue it back on. It's a special UV glue... Gorilla Glue or SuperGlue won't work.

A human cannot provide enough strength to open a car door even in a couple of feet of water. Even 1 PSI, (about 2.25 feet of water) when multiplied by the total area of a door is too much for even a muscle man to push open. You have to roll down the window to escape.

Only PARTLY True... While the car is SINKING down... the door is impossible to open and it's very difficult to get out even by an open window... However,

Once the car sinks to the bottom and stops, the door can be opened normally and you can make your escape.

No need to panic... as you are surrounded by air....

Take off the valve cap from the tire stem and depress with your finger nail for all the air you will need.

(OLD ICE FISHING TIP - ON OCCASION A VEHICLE WILL FAIL THROUGH THE ICE)

#23 | Posted by Pegasus at 2019-10-10 11:32 AM | Reply

"Once the car sinks to the bottom and stops, the door can be opened normally and you can make your escape.
POSTED BY PEGASUS "

This isn't true. Pressure on a car door (or anything) at any given depth is the same whether the car is falling or stationary.

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-10 11:49 AM | Reply

Is there something wrong with having both? A car mirror that is also a camera and a radar sensor.

Duh.

#25 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-10-10 12:17 PM | Reply

"Take off the valve cap from the tire stem and depress with your finger nail for all the air you will need."

It's true! I saw in a movie! So it must be true.

Most people do not have the calm reflexes and ability to control their rising panic like 007.

#26 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-10-10 12:21 PM | Reply

""Take off the valve cap from the tire stem and depress with your finger nail for all the air you will need."

Most people's spares are inaccessible from inside the car, but you are right -- it's a workable idea.

#27 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-10 12:35 PM | Reply

"Is there something wrong with having both? A car mirror that is also a camera and a radar sensor.
Duh.

#25 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY "

Nothing wrong with it if you are rich and have money to throw away. I just can't justify an expensive camera when a low tech $24 mirror does the very same thing and is far less likely to fail.

#28 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-10 12:37 PM | Reply

My son was showing off his new Ford pickup to me and its camera. He said, "Dad, look. It even has a front camera." I asked him, "What's wrong with looking out of the windshield." LOL

Joking aside, he said it was to aid in parking. Still....I've parked vehicles for 48 years (including parallel parking) and I never needed a camera to do it.

I think this attitude in general is partially attributable to the dumbing down of drivers and the more dangerous roads. They are either so dependent on their gadgets, or they are paying too much attention to their gadgets, that they don't know how to actually drive, and drive defensibly and safely.

Defensive driving is the most important facet of safe driving IMO. But you ask a young person these days about it and you get the deer-in-the-headlights look. I guess they don't teach that in Driver's ed any omre.

#29 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-10 12:43 PM | Reply

So much "get off my lawnisms" in this thread.

and quotes "expensive cameras" a basic Honda model has cameras in the side mirrors, cameras are pretty inexpensive these days.

#30 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-10-10 01:51 PM | Reply

"and quotes "expensive cameras" a basic Honda model has cameras in the side mirrors, cameras are pretty inexpensive these days.

#30 | POSTED BY KWRX25 "

An OEM camera is $199. To me that's expensive for a needless piece of equipment on a car. You're richer than me. Cool.

camera-source.com

#31 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-10 02:04 PM | Reply

It's likely authorities have decided on rear view cameras.

The main reason is that outside rear view mirrors create a lot of wind resistance. I can also see it as a requirement for autonomous cars.

I'm withholding judgment. My car has a "side assist" feature that's supposed to see cars in mirror blind spots. But I found that the feature has blind spots of its own. I can't put full trust in it. Then there is a front collision detector that warns me when I'm approaching the car too fast. That too has a flaw. It can't detect lateral movement. If I get close to a car that's turning off the road, the car shudders without warning. I Love the backup camera.

#32 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-10 03:07 PM | Reply

Goat, that's an after market with an OEM look. Not the same thing.

All the cars are coming with displays screens standard, so the only difference then is the actual camera... The things that are built into virtually everything these days with virtually no bump in cost.

I get it, it's something else that can break... but they are becoming quite common in lower models and I've not heard the rush of complaints about failed cameras.

You're choosing to gripe about a non issue, and coming across as 'that' crotchety old guy.

#33 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-10-10 03:30 PM | Reply

"Goat, that's an after market with an OEM look. Not the same thing."

My bad. I didn't see the word "look". But actually an OEM product is going to coast even more than a non-OEM

"You're choosing to gripe about a non issue, and coming across as 'that' crotchety old guy"

I'm not griping. I'm simply saying it makes no sense to me to pay a bunch of money for something when a more reliable, low tech, cheaper product works just as well.

I *am* a crotchety old guy, but that doesn't diminish my dislike of spending money unnecessarily.

#34 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-10 03:35 PM | Reply

Stupid ass idea. Only to benefit car makers and dealerships that will make millions constantly fixing the electronic devices. I just swapped a mirror from a wrecking yard for $25 bucks. Do you think changing out a camera will cost that?

#35 | Posted by tknees at 2019-10-10 04:57 PM | Reply

It would make PI attorneys a lot less necessary. Which would be a good thing.

#36 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-10-10 07:57 PM | Reply

Cameras cameras, as I type away on a thing that is looking at me

#37 | Posted by bruceaz at 2019-10-10 08:08 PM | Reply

Should Cameras Replace Car Mirrors?

NO. I've argued this many times.

People (mostly young dummies) just love new tech and think that anything new and tech must be inherently better.

Replacing side mirrors with cameras and screens is stupid for no fewer than 8 reasons:

1. purchase cost
2. durability
3. repair cost
4. complexity/reliability - more potential points of failure
5. resolution - cameras are lower resolution than mirrors - cameras are limited by pixels, cameras have almost infinite resoultion.
6. contrast - cameras have limited range of darks and brights, mirrors have unlimited contrast
7. mirrors give info in 3D, cameras and screens only in 2D.
8. eye strain - using a mirror, your eyes stay focused in the distance and dont need to refocus when you switch from looking forward to looking in the mirror. Using screens your eyes have to adjust from distance vision looking ahead, to close vision on the screen, EVERY TIME YOU LOOK AT THE SCREEN. Over time, this wears on your eyes.

ANY QUESTIONS?

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-10 08:12 PM | Reply

* correction
6. MIRRORS have unlimited contrast

#39 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-10 08:14 PM | Reply

Cameras cameras, as I type away on a thing that is looking at me

#37 | Posted by bruceaz

Mark zuckerberg covers his laptop camera. He probably knows more about what it sees than we do.

#40 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-10 08:15 PM | Reply

*dammit RE-CORRECTION
5. MIRRORS have almost infinite resolution

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-10 08:30 PM | Reply

I wouldn't mind a long LCD screen on the back ledge that can display messages like Back off my bumper!" or "You should have left sooner!" or "Are the 5 seconds you might save worth a lawsuit if you rear end me?"

#42 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-10 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

40...

Mirrors over
Windows to the mirror ice over
Drops and fog on the mirror and the window
Night view cameras better than a mirror in the dark

And where is the rash of broken cameras?

#43 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-10-10 11:12 PM | Reply

tooooo much electronics in cars???

www.youtube.com

now just imagine when the dealer thinks it's time for you to buy a new car....

like an iphone... only bigger.....

#44 | Posted by Pegasus at 2019-10-11 11:38 AM | Reply

I do not mind cameras in addition to the mirrors, but not wild of them as a replacement for mirrors.

#45 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-10-11 12:05 PM | Reply

"I wouldn't mind a long LCD screen on the back ledge that can display messages like Back off my bumper!" or "You should have left sooner!" or "Are the 5 seconds you might save worth a lawsuit if you rear end me?""

I'd love that. I can't stand tailgaters and Florida has lots of them.

#46 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-11 12:15 PM | Reply

I'd love that. I can't stand tailgaters and Florida has lots of them.

#46 | Posted by danni

I was in South Florida a few months ago. I-95 was akin to driving on the Daytona Speedway. Somewhere near Ft Lauderdale, a Honda actually zoomed between my car and the one to my left in the HOV lane doing nearly 100 mph. Everyone is in a great big hurry to get somewhere.

#47 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-10-11 03:18 PM | Reply

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