Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, October 14, 2019

"There are differences between Elizabeth and myself," Sanders, I-Vt., said in an interview with ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl. "Elizabeth, I think, as you know, has said that she is a capitalist through her bones. I'm not."

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That's the best thing he could do for her. Most people in no way thinks she's capitalist. It's almost an endorsement for her.

#1 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-10-13 07:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We already know Sanders is a capitalist-hating socialist. Who in their right mind chooses to spend their honeymoon in the Soviet Union?

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-13 07:39 PM | Reply

#2

Sanders and Lee Harvey Oswald. That's not really good company to be in.

#3 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-10-13 07:53 PM | Reply

There's been talk for weeks that Bernie has to distance himself from Warren and Biden, so this isn't surprising.

#4 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-13 08:07 PM | Reply

"There's been talk for weeks that Bernie has to distance himself from Warren and Biden..."

#4 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

According to his declining polls, he is. LOL

www.realclearpolitics.com

#5 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-13 08:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

We know, Bernout. It's still a bit of good old Schadenfreude to watch leftists form circular firing wagons. Next time go to a socialist country to fix your bum ticker.

#6 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-10-14 02:15 AM | Reply

Maybe he can get an anti-capitalist plank into the party platform. At least half of the delegates would vote for it.

#7 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-14 09:41 AM | Reply

This kind of talk turns off too many folks even in the democratic party.

#8 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 09:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Turns off the DNC leadership. Not so much the Democrat rank and file. The Democrat convention is likely to be the biggest gathering of leftists since Chairman Mao addressed the Red Guards in Tiananmen Square

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-14 10:09 AM | Reply

--There's been talk for weeks that Bernie has to distance himself from Warren and Biden

He's called himself a socialist for years. Has the party gone that far to the Left?

#10 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-14 10:54 AM | Reply

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Warren has the deep state seal of approval. The investigation of Trump and by implication Biden is completely Warrented.

#11 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-10-14 12:38 PM | Reply

This kind of talk turns off too many folks even in the democratic party.

#8 | Posted by eberly

It's as stupid and unnecessary as Beto's "hell yeah" AR-15 comment. It's a desperate ploy to distance oneself that in the end gives the perfect soundbite to the GOP for the general election.

#12 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-14 12:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It's a sign of desperation when someone who likes to qualify their economic policy of "socialism" as Northern European not Stalinist, which is true... calls someone who's capitalism isn't crony capitalism "a capitalist" in a derogatory manner, and he knows it's not true.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-14 02:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He's called himself a socialist for years. Has the party gone that far to the Left?

#10 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

It's the demographics of support.

Bernie = teachers and Walmart workers

Biden = minorities and old school union Dems

Warren = upscale professional liberals

The biggest inroads Bernie can make is going after Biden's voters -- who are, by the way, mistaken into thinking a Neoliberal like Biden would ever do anything for workers as president.

Also, since 2015 Bernie singlehandededly moved Democrats into talking about issues that actually matter to ordinary Americans -- Medicare-for-All and healthcare access, prescription costs, college debt, taxes, housing costs and Wall Street, etc...

Give credit where credit is due.

#14 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-14 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

We already know Sanders is a capitalist-hating socialist. Who in their right mind chooses to spend their honeymoon in the Soviet Union?

#2 | Posted by nullifidian

Your leader is owned by putin. Make up your mind. Is russia good or bad?

#15 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 02:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Most people in no way thinks she's capitalist. It's almost an endorsement for her.

It's ironic because she has all kinds of quasi-Leninist schemes she wants to impose on American businesses. There's about as much difference between her and Sanders as between Marx and Engels.

#16 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-14 02:54 PM | Reply

Warren has the deep state seal of approval. The investigation of Trump and by implication Biden is completely Warrented.

#11 | Posted by visitor_

Deep state = anyone in government who refuses to betray their oath to defend the constitution and support trump instead.

#17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 02:54 PM | Reply

Things are really lining up for warren.

Biden makes her look like the alternative to sellout corruption.
Sanders makes her look like the alternative to radical socialism.

If dems are smart enough to stop caring that biden polls well in states that dems aren't going to win in the general, she's got this in the bag.

#18 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 02:55 PM | Reply

#11 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Yeah... she runs the "deep state" from the basement of a pizza parlor, next to the child pedophilia ring.

Y'all are paranoid little snowflakes, aren't you?

#19 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-10-14 02:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The deep state is the master not the other way round.

#20 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-10-14 03:03 PM | Reply

Sanders called Warren a capitalist? Perhaps he was doing her a favor.

Moderate Americans are so fkkking stupid, they're scared of a system of government which would actually benefit them.

You know what's not going to help middle America? Capitalism. Those jobs have moved to cheaper labor pools and they're never coming back. Ever.

The rich have been fleecing middle class and poor Americans for decades. Time to turn up the taxes and get back some of our stolen money.

#21 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 03:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Biden, Sanders, Warren....what do they have in common and in their favor???

They aren't lying ------- Trump. The righties poke fun at our candidates are are all much better than their candidate. Now Trump is going to get us into a war simply because he thinks it will help him politically.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-14 03:08 PM | Reply

"The deep state is the master not the other way round."

Totally a manufactured talking point that actually means nothing.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-14 03:10 PM | Reply

The deep state is the master not the other way round.

#20 | Posted by visitor_

Yeah trump really scared the deep state when he filled his white house with bankers and lobbyists and increased military spending didn't he?

For a warrior against the deep state, he sure loves giving them jobs and throwing money at them.

#24 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 03:10 PM | Reply

"Your leader is owned by putin. Make up your mind. Is russia good or bad?"

Feels like he's making a distinction between communism and a kleptocratic oligarchy, and showing a preference for the latter.

#25 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-14 03:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

-Moderate Americans are so fkkking stupid, they're scared of a system of government which would actually benefit them.

So, you see Bernie's problem? It's kind of hard to suggest a system of government you believe most Americans are too fkkking stupid to understand.

That and the fact you have to refer to them as "fkkking stupid" to boot.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 03:42 PM | Reply

the fact you have to refer to them as "fkkking stupid" to boot.

What do you call it when people viciously fight against their own best interests?

Also, make up your mind. Are people's feelings worth consideration? Or do we mock them for being snowflakes?

If conservatives didn't have double standards, they'd have no standards at all.

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 03:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What do you call it when people viciously fight against their own best interests?
#27 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

What do you call it when someone claims to know another individual's best interests? Hubris and arrogance

#28 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 03:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Also, make up your mind. Are people's feelings worth consideration? Or do we mock them for being snowflakes?

have I confused you lately? my mind isn't made up? about what? how to get folks to vote for you? I've never been confused about that.

-What do you call it when people viciously fight against their own best interests?

You're frustrated with them, no need to keep on with your rage. I get it.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 03:52 PM | Reply

"Moderate Americans are so fkkking stupid...
#21 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

That's an absurd assertion, as is any broad brushing. But even if true, it's the moderate Americans who elect presidents, not hyperpartisans like you. So it's probably not a good idea to employ your childish name calling against them. They're likely to say, "Gee, I don't want to be like him or his party" and vote for the other guy.

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 03:54 PM | Reply

-Moderate Americans are so fkkking stupid, they're scared of a system of government which would actually benefit them.

Do they deserve a better system of govt. then?

I'd love to see the world through clownshart's glasses. "Everyone who agrees with me is smart, and everyone who doesn't, isn't."

The whole fkking world has been boiled down to a sentence that simple for him.

And if anyone points this out to him...they're a fkkking racist.

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 03:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-So it's probably not a good idea to employ your childish name calling against them.

He can't help it. His anger and hostility is just too high to stop himself.

Kind of like for about 30 minutes after the Chiefs game yesterday. I wanted to set fire to my own house....and my neighbors.....

then I was fine...it's just football.

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 04:02 PM | Reply

kind of like me

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 04:02 PM | Reply

What do you call it when someone claims to know another individual's best interests? Hubris and arrogance

#28 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

I have to agree with you there. Liberals complain about people voting "against their own interests", but the reality is that they don't understand their interests. You would think their "interests" would be economic security, safety nets, and opportunities for them and their children. But they don't want to reach for success. They would much rather elect someone who will tell them that their god-given success was STOLEN from them by XXX (immigrants, liberals, corporations, etc). If you think that someone is "voting against their interests", then you probably don't understand what their interests actually are.

Like all those farmers who are being hurt by Trump's tariffs. You think they are going to drop Trump? No... because they don't actually want "fairness" in trade. What they want is a hand-out. They want the government to guarantee them a good wage without having to actually go through the effort of learning to become competitive in the marketplace.

As far as people being "fkkking stupid"? Yeah... that is why fly-over country votes Republican. But it is not because rural people are inherently stupid, it is self-selection. The opportunities are in the cities, not the country. So, the smart people move to the cities to take advantage of the opportunities. The dumb ones are stuck where they are, trying to make do in dying towns. And the people from the city who can't cut it move into the country. We are creating our own Idiocracy. And that is the conservative base. That is who elected Trump.

#34 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-10-14 04:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-And the people from the city who can't cut it move into the country.

Ouch! That hurts.....

#35 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 04:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL "

Another big flaw in the "you vote against your own self interest meme" is that there is very rarely a candidate who represents everyone's self interests. So they vote for the person who represents most of them, say 9 out of 10 of the voter's best interests. But then there will be some idiot out there who finds out that person voted "against" his self interest basing the claim on the one of ten items he doesn't agree with.

This theme is brought up a lot with gays who vote republican. People like clownshack will claim gays are voting against their own self interest (not getting into if that's true or not) not even thinking that perhaps everything else that candidate stands for is in that particular voter's best interest.

Binary people are just that. Binary and boring and usually not very smart. They see the world as all or nothing, when in reality it is very seldom that way for most voters.

#36 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:20 PM | Reply

" And the people from the city who can't cut it move into the country. We are creating our own Idiocracy. And that is the conservative base. That is who elected Trump.

#34 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL"

Untrue. I'd say the ones who can't cut it move into the city. It's simple to live there. It takes more fortitude to live the country life.

If there was a disaster, who would you want to be your friend? A Manhattanite who at best knows how to grow a potted tomato plant on his balcony, or a country person who knows the land, can hunt, can grow food, can raise chickens, can purify water, etc.

I lived in the country for many years. It's because I hated the smog, the crowds, the traffic, the noise, the light pollution of the city. It has nothing to with being unable to "cut it" in the city. I just don't like the skank you apparently revel in.

You're as bad as clownshack assuming you know what is best for people or why they make the lifestyle choices they do.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:27 PM | Reply

"What they [farmers] want is a hand-out.
#34 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL "

There are 2.2 million farms in the US.

Let me borrow your broad brush for a minute. There are 52 million welfare recipients, or 21% of the US and 24 times as many as farmers. All they want is a handout.

Here's your broad brush back. Thanks for letting me borrow it

www.census.gov

en.wikipedia.org

#38 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:36 PM | Reply

That's an absurd assertion, as is any broad brushing. But even if true, it's the moderate Americans who elect presidents, not hyperpartisans like you. So it's probably not a good idea to employ your childish name calling against them. They're likely to say, "Gee, I don't want to be like him or his party" and vote for the other guy.

#30 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

The reason why Clownshack is right is because you're not acknowledging that politicians like Bernie Sanders advocate those issues that have strong bipartisan majorities ...

www.salon.com

Allow Government to Negotiate Drug Prices (79%)
Give Students the Same Low Interest Rates as Big Banks (78%)
Universal Pre-Kindergarten (77%)
Fair Trade that Protect Workers, the Environment, and Jobs (75%)
End Tax Loopholes for Corporations that Ship Jobs Overseas (74%)
End Gerrymandering (73%)
Let Homeowners Pay Down Mortgage With 401k (72%)
Debt-Free College at All Public Universities (Message A) (71%)
Infrastructure Jobs Program -- $400 Billion / Year (71%)
Require NSA to Get Warrants (71%)
Disclose Corporate Spending on Politics/Lobbying (71%)
Medicare Buy-In for All (71%)
Close Offshore Corporate Tax Loopholes (70%)
Green New Deal -- Millions Of Clean-Energy Jobs (70%)
Full Employment Act (70%)
Expand Social Security Benefits (70%)

All of the above are in line with Bernie Sanders' politics and all are extremely popular, with support across the political spectrum.


So when people say Bernie, or Yang, or Warren, are far left -- they are dismissing those issues that voters ACTUALLY want, issues that are in the political center due to their plurality of support.

Trump offers fake populism, which is what got Trump elected president.

And previous Democrats NOT named Bernie Sanders DON'T offer Real Populism, like what got FDR repeatedly elected until he died -- and it was FDR New Deal policies that had Democrats dominating American politics for 50 years.

You and others don't understand what's roiling America's politics -- it's having issues that are important to ordinary Americans not being represented by either major political party.

#39 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-14 04:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Yet another thread where Dulli lies about Sander's socialism being Stalinism rather than modern N European. Nothing new there.

And more goat bleating.

#40 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-14 04:47 PM | Reply

"" And the people from the city who can't cut it move into the country. We are creating our own Idiocracy. And that is the conservative base. That is who elected Trump.
#34 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL"
"

Let's see. There are 60 million people who live in rural America. There is an average of 1.9 kids in the average household, meaning there are app 31,000,000 voters in rural areas.

In 2016, 61.2% of Americans voted, so of the 31 million adults in rural areas, that would be 18 million.

Even if they all voted for Trump, which is unlikely, and Trump got 63 million votes, that means 45 million had to have come from urban and suburban areas and elected Trump.

Next time, don't use Democratic math, GTBRITISHSKULL.

Sources:

www.census.gov

en.wikipedia.org

www.census.gov

www.statista.com

#41 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:52 PM | Reply

"#39 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

I'm not sure why you posted that since it has absolutely nothing to do with my post you C&Ped. I guess it's just you beginning your daily stalking of me.

Try to live without me today, pincheloaf.

Thanks!

#42 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:55 PM | Reply

"Yet another thread where Dulli lies about Sander's socialism being Stalinism rather than modern N European. Nothing new there.
And more goat bleating.
#40 | POSTED BY CORKY"

So no rebuttal? Of course not.

Why do you think ad hominem is a valid response, corky? If you don't have the brain power to muster up a rebuttal, it's best just to keep silent.

#43 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:58 PM | Reply

I'm not sure why you posted that since it has absolutely nothing to do with my post you C&Ped. I guess it's just you beginning your daily stalking of me.

Try to live without me today, pincheloaf.

Thanks!

#42 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

It's a legit post, silly goose.

Clownshack is right.

You're wrong.

Whining about people calling you out on your wrong analysis is lame.

#44 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-14 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You're wrong

#44 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF"

I know better than to argue with someone who self-declares victory.

So accept my congratulations. Print this post out and put it on the wall in your bedroom with all the pink "participant" ribbons you've been saving since you were four years old.

But I expect something in exchange. Go at least one day without stalking me. Deal?

#45 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 05:04 PM | Reply

-The reason why Clownshack is right is because you're not acknowledging that politicians like Bernie Sanders advocate those issues that have strong bipartisan majorities ...

Clownshack is arguing americans are to fkkkking dumb to be in agreement with Sanders.....IOW, they don't support a system of government that is in their best interests.

The person you are most at odds with IS Clownshack, Pinch.

He doesn't agree with you that Americans support those things. His argument is the opposite, if you bothered to read.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:06 PM | Reply

"" And the people from the city who can't cut it move into the country. We are creating our own Idiocracy. And that is the conservative base. That is who elected Trump.
#34 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL"

Addendum. I found a source that indicated that 62% of rural voters voted for Trump. So out of the 63 million votes he received, 11 million came from rural areas and 52 million came from suburban and urban areas.

Again, don't use Democratic math to make your claims.

en.wikipedia.org

#47 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 05:09 PM | Reply

I would never want to live in a big city. They are fun places to visit but I much prefer living in the suburbs.

#48 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-14 05:11 PM | Reply

"The person you are most at odds with IS Clownshack, Pinch.
He doesn't agree with you that Americans support those things. His argument is the opposite, if you bothered to read.

#46 | POSTED BY EBERLY "

Pinche Oaf is more interested in stalking me than he is with facts.

#49 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 05:12 PM | Reply

Another big flaw in the "you vote against your own self interest meme" is that there is very rarely a candidate who represents everyone's self interests.

#36 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

If you agree with me on 9 out of 12 issues, vote for me. If you agree with me on 12 out of 12 issues, see a psychiatrist.

Ed Koch

#50 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-10-14 05:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Clownshack is arguing americans are to fkkkking dumb to be in agreement with Sanders.....IOW, they don't support a system of government that is in their best interests.

The person you are most at odds with IS Clownshack, Pinch.

He doesn't agree with you that Americans support those things. His argument is the opposite, if you bothered to read.

#46 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Wrong

Clownshack is talking about the fake populism that Trump offers.

Goat-Mam is whining about a "broad brush".

If you bothered to read.

#51 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-14 05:28 PM | Reply

#48 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

So both Goat and Jeff self-selected not to live in cities. Huh.

I will leave that as a datapoint for everyone else to use to come to their own conclusions.

:)

#52 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-10-14 05:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-Clownshack is talking about the fake populism that Trump offers.

Yes, that same fake populism people always vote for along party lines.

Clown can explain himself but I read him to mean that despite the promises along the lines of Sanders is proposing....people won't just run from their political parties.

Not on election day they won't. They'll support them in polls years away from a general election for POTUS as evidenced by your #39.

But Clown can explain himself.

#53 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:40 PM | Reply

-So both Goat and Jeff self-selected not to live in cities. Huh.

and Eberly.

and I know doctors, lawyers, all sorts of professionals and highly educated and intelligent folks who self-selected not to live in cities.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:41 PM | Reply

"Goat-Mam is whining about a "broad brush".
If you bothered to read."

you poor thing. Where did I mention his broad brush?

he's in your head so far, you're flat out programmed by him.

#55 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:42 PM | Reply

Eberly.

You're the one who's convinced moderate Americans won't vote for Bernie Sanders because they have been scared by capitalists into fearing socialism.

Which. I don't disagree with.

Your only disagreement with me is that I called them fkkking stupid for not realizing they're being lied to and played by the Republican Party. For not educating themselves about what Democratic socialism is. What Democratic Socialism can do for them and all Americans.

I believe when you hear Bernie talk, you understand he's fighting to protect America and all Americans. It's more than just politics, it's about the future of this country. It's about whether we fight for the rich, or we fight for everyone. We fight for a better America or we continue to allow the rich to control the wealthiest nation on the planet.

Calling it socialism is fearmongering and if moderates are unable to understand this, they are fkkking stupid.

#56 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 05:43 PM | Reply

"So both Goat and Jeff self-selected not to live in cities. Huh.
I will leave that as a datapoint for everyone else to use to come to their own conclusions.
:)

#52 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL "

And your love of city skank is noted as well.

We'll also attribute your reliance on democrat math to come up with this absurd and easily proven false (using real math) statement:

"We are creating our own Idiocracy. And that is the conservative base. That is who elected Trump.

#34 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL "

And yes, you created that idiocricy, or using the parlance of our times, "you built that".

#57 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 05:46 PM | Reply

Yes, that same fake populism people always vote for along party lines.

Clown can explain himself but I read him to mean that despite the promises along the lines of Sanders is proposing....people won't just run from their political parties.

Not on election day they won't. They'll support them in polls years away from a general election for POTUS as evidenced by your #39.

But Clown can explain himself.

#53 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Dems have been offering lip service to American workers while stabbing them in the back with trade policies that favor corporations and betrays workers -- that's not fake populism, that's neoliberalism.

Saying America is going to bring back jobs from Mexico and China and that voters can trust him to do the right thing is fake populism.

You need to get all this straight.

#58 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-14 05:50 PM | Reply

-Your only disagreement with me is that I called them fkkking stupid for not realizing they're being lied to and played by the Republican Party.

It's really just a comment to illustrate how hard of a sell it is for Bernie.

-Calling it socialism is fearmongering

it's also easy and effective.

If only calling folks racists were as effective.....LOL

but seriously...I don't disagree with you....but it's always been this way.

Bernie Sanders doesn't exactly have a patent on those ideas, BTW. If it could be sold, someone would have sold it already.

I think it's a MUCH tougher sell than you and Pinch think.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:50 PM | Reply

-You need to get all this straight.

LOL!!!!

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:52 PM | Reply

"You're the one who's convinced moderate Americans won't vote for Bernie Sanders because they have been scared by capitalists into fearing socialism."

I am.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 05:54 PM | Reply

Corrupt billionaires use conservative media to sell the lie that if you dont vote for the billionaires puppets then your only other choice is marxist communists. They'll call whoever their opponent is a socialist and scream about venezuela, ignoring all the socialist countries with happier healthier middle class populations than the USA.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 06:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I know doctors, lawyers, all sorts of professionals and highly educated and intelligent folks who self-selected not to live in cities.
#54 | POSTED BY EBERLY

So? You can be intelligent, yet act stupid or be gullible and easily misled.

#63 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 06:33 PM | Reply

#52 GTBrit

Funny.

#64 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-14 06:37 PM | Reply

We are a 5 minute drive to a Metro Park.

I love that. We have a nice yard, a patio that is over-cluttered with grills and smokers and some really nice neighbors and we live in a nice, safe community.

Nothing wrong with living in the city, it just isn't a good fit for us.

#65 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-14 06:40 PM | Reply

I think it's a MUCH tougher sell than you and Pinch think.

I don't believe it would be. Bernie has an appeal that transcends party affiliation. He has a large enough movement behind him to win the general election.

But. He may not survive the primaries.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 06:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bernie is poisoning the candidacy of the Dem winner again. He knows exactly what he's doing.

#67 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-14 06:52 PM | Reply

Clown,

Other than the heart attack Bernie has a huge hurdle to leap in the Democratic Party primary: He's not a Democrat.

#68 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-14 06:54 PM | Reply

I love seeing all these people who were never going to vote for Bernie in the first place clutching their pearls over this.

It's no surprise that Bernie is a critic of capitalism. I also don't think he has a legitimate chance at winning the primary, so don't worry little capitalists, your system that fails millions of Americans is safe.

#69 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-14 06:58 PM | Reply

Other than the heart attack Bernie has a huge hurdle to leap in the Democratic Party primary: He's not a Democrat.

#68 | Posted by JeffJ

That's why people like him. He ACTUALLY supports the things the rest of the party PRETENDS to support, but can't fight for because they take bribe money from profiteers of the status quo.

He's more legitimate democrat than the "democrats."

#70 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 06:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-You can be intelligent, yet act stupid or be gullible and easily misled.

You mean not agree with you on election day.

#71 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 06:58 PM | Reply

-He has a large enough movement behind him to win the general election.

nope. those policies will enjoy support. Bernie will enjoy support....but not on election day.

#72 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 07:00 PM | Reply

Speaks,

He's honest about what and who he is. I respect that.

#73 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-14 07:00 PM | Reply

Ebs,

Bernie is a LW version of Ron Paul.

Very loyal base but not electable outside of his current demographic.

#74 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-14 07:02 PM | Reply

-I also don't think he has a legitimate chance at winning the primary

the primary is the ONLY thing he has a legitimate chance at winning.

#75 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-14 07:07 PM | Reply

Bernie is poisoning the candidacy of the Dem winner again. He knows exactly what he's doing.

#67 | POSTED BYBRUCEBANNER

It's neoliberals who poison Bernie's candidacy.

Bernie's policy ideas are backed up by majorities of Americans.

Neoliberals, who control the Democratic Party, get their policy ideas from Ivy League academia and snobs from Martha's Vineyard ...

Neoliberals know what they're doing, which is paying lip service to working-class issues, while serving to the professional-class with everything they want that makes their lives even cushier.

#76 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-14 07:39 PM | Reply

Bernie is poisoning the candidacy of the Dem winner again. He knows exactly what he's doing.
#67 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

What? Are we not allowed discussion?

Unlike 2016, I feel like a lot more people are willing to vote for the Democratic candidate.

Unlike 2016, Trump isn't an unknown. He has a record to run against. An abysmal record.

Stop stifling discussion. This is why we're here.

#77 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 07:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

You mean not agree with you on election day.
#71 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Nope. I've already explained. It's due to their willing ignorance of what Democratic socialism is and what socialism is. Their willing, or passive, ignorance is what makes them stupid.

#78 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-14 07:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Calling it socialism is fearmongering and if moderates are unable to understand this, they are fkkking stupid.
#56 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Some of us see both sides- that the soshulizm label is absurd, but so is the amount of free schitt that's supposedly going to be paid for by taxing the rich.

#79 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-14 07:56 PM | Reply

Some of us see both sides- that the soshulizm label is absurd, but so is the amount of free schitt that's supposedly going to be paid for by taxing the rich.

#79 | Posted by jpw

Because it's not just TAXING the rich. It's getting the money that the rich have been hoarding back into economic circulation. When you tax the rich and spend it on stuff like infrastructure and education, that has a multiplier effect. It creates more wealth for more people in the future.

#80 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 08:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You friggin' guys

Trump is getting re-elected.
It's not to late for the Democratic Party to repent and act somewhat normal.

Yeeeech.

#81 | Posted by drivelikejehu at 2019-10-14 09:04 PM | Reply

It's not to late for the Democratic Party to repent and act somewhat normal.

Yeeeech.

#81 | Posted by drivelikejehu

Yes please lecture us about acting normal, while worshipping at the feet of a fascist who tells proven falsehoods all day long, who trusts putin over the US military, who appoints his kids to run the government, who puts lobbyists in charge of the country, who never laughs or smiles unless he's mocking someone, who bones porn stars without a condom, who tweets about rosie o donnell, who can't speak badly of nazis, who never reads books or even intelligence breifings... Tell us what YOU consider normal to be.

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 09:27 PM | Reply

Getting people to believe that is her only hope of getting the nomination. You tell 'em Bernie!

#83 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 09:29 PM | Reply

"Yes please lecture us about acting normal, while worshipping at the feet of a fascist who tells proven falsehoods all day long, who trusts putin over the US military, who appoints his kids to run the government, who puts lobbyists in charge of the country, who never laughs or smiles unless he's mocking someone, who bones porn stars without a condom, who tweets about rosie o donnell, who can't speak badly of nazis, who never reads books or even intelligence breifings... Tell us what YOU consider normal to be.

#82 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY"

Is it even remotely possible that you respond to a post without deflection to Trump?

Ask your cult leader for some guidance on this. Or is it your cult leader that makes you mindlessly deflect away from the issue?

#84 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 09:31 PM | Reply

Is it even remotely possible that you respond to a post without deflection to Trump?

#84 | Posted by goatman

It is not remotely possible for a trump supporter to tell democrats they need to act normal without being laughed out of the room.

If OJ Simpson came into the room to lecture you on why you shouldn't stab people, it's not a deflection to point out his history with knives.

#85 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-14 09:49 PM | Reply

"It is not remotely possible for a trump supporter to tell democrats they need to act normal without being laughed out of the room.
If OJ Simpson came into the room to lecture you on why you shouldn't stab people, it's not a deflection to point out his history with knives.

#85 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

I'll take that lengthy deflection as a 'no'.

#86 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 09:51 PM | Reply

Bernie is poisoning the candidacy of the Dem winner

That's pretty stupid. Was Trump poisoned by the apparently unelectable viewpoints of Jeb Bush and John Kasoch?

#87 | Posted by Joe at 2019-10-15 07:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

She is a capitalist and that is why I like her. She is also a reformist and heaven knows our capitalism needs some reformation.

Bernie is a -------- artist extraordinaire.

#88 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2019-10-15 08:04 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Let's see. There are 60 million people who live in rural America. There is an average of 1.9 kids in the average household, meaning there are app 31,000,000 voters in rural areas.

In 2016, 61.2% of Americans voted, so of the 31 million adults in rural areas, that would be 18 million.

Even if they all voted for Trump, which is unlikely, and Trump got 63 million votes, that means 45 million had to have come from urban and suburban areas and elected Trump.

Next time, don't use Democratic math, GTBRITISHSKULL.

Sources:

www.census.gov

en.wikipedia.org

www.census.gov

www.statista.com

#41 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-14 04:52 PM

Dear Goat,

Bernie just had a heart attack. Warren is only eight years younger than Bernie. First-time voters came of age in the time of the Internet. Your cited statistics are likely not relevant.

For the nonce I identify as a Northern European Socialist, rather than a Stalinist Socialist; with an MBA, so I have to cast my lot with Warren.

#89 | Posted by john47 at 2019-10-15 08:48 AM | Reply

Northern European Socialist just means privileged white people with a penchant for anti-immigrant racism when it slightly disturbs their welfare culture.

#90 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-10-15 10:12 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Bernie is a millionaire that owns at least 3 properties.

#91 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 10:26 AM | Reply

Warren is going to scalp Bernie over this slur.

#92 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 10:27 AM | Reply

When the money runs out all socialism becomes Stalinist style. In capitalism the rich become powerful, in socialism the powerful become rich.

#93 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-10-15 10:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's pretty stupid. Was Trump poisoned by the apparently unelectable viewpoints of Jeb Bush and John Kasoch?

#87 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-10-15 07:11 AM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1

Yes.

Another one for you. Was Hillary poisoned by Bernie? Yes.

He's the killer of the left.

Watch him burn it down because he is a little sore loser.

#94 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-15 10:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What? Are we not allowed discussion?
Unlike 2016, I feel like a lot more people are willing to vote for the Democratic candidate.
Unlike 2016, Trump isn't an unknown. He has a record to run against. An abysmal record.
Stop stifling discussion. This is why we're here.

#77 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-10-14 07:45 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 3

Then let me speak mfer

#95 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-15 10:36 AM | Reply

It's getting the money that the rich have been hoarding back into economic circulation.
#80 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

LOL you think the rich just bath in Benjamins?

They aren't hoarders with it sitting around in liquid cash. Its invested in something.

When you tax the rich and spend it on stuff like infrastructure and education, that has a multiplier effect.

No it doesn't ....

1. We spend more than any country in the world per pupil on K-12, no noticeable change in scores, in fact they are going down.
2. Depends upon the infrastructure, sending billions of dollars to china, for bridge construction is hardly my idea of multiplies effect.

It creates more wealth for more people in the future.

More real wealth is created by letting the Billionaires invest in companies, which some will fail.

allowing the government to steal it and spend it, just makes the congress critters rich, and the people that much poorer.

I am not against spending of government projects, but right now run amok and wasteful spending.

#96 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-15 10:41 AM | Reply

Not-liberals are against wasteful spending like:

Education
Child care
Medical care
Unemployment insurance
Anything that benefits poor people
Infrastructure
Social Security

Not-liberals have absolutely no problem spending money on:

Extra air craft carriers
Expensive fighter jets
Guns & ammo
Corporate welfare
Frivolous investigations into their political rivals

So both sides!

#97 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 11:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Education
Child care
Medical care
Unemployment insurance
Anything that benefits poor people
Infrastructure
Social Security
Not-liberals have absolutely no problem spending money on:
Extra air craft carriers
Expensive fighter jets
Guns & ammo
Corporate welfare
Frivolous investigations into their political rivals
So both sides!

#97 | POSTED BY CHUFFY "

Not true. I'm a non-liberal and I don't necessarily fit into most of your broad brush categories.

#98 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 11:13 AM | Reply

Yes. You're a far right radical.

#99 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-15 11:19 AM | Reply

"You're a far right radical.

#99 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER "

Funny. My rightie friends tell me I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

When did "far right radicals" start believing in no prayer in school, no death penalty, abortion, gay rights, women's rights, environmental issues bruce? Seriously, I'd like to know. Or are you just trolling?

#100 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 11:23 AM | Reply

Not true. I'm a non-liberal and I don't necessarily fit into most of your broad brush categories.

#98 | POSTED BY GOAT-TROLL

You're a right-wing hack.

You're a Trump -------.

And a Trump humper.

You're a whiney Snowflake.

And, of course, you're a Troll.

#101 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-15 11:26 AM | Reply

"You're a right-wing hack.
You're a Trump -------.
And a Trump humper.
You're a whiney Snowflake.
And, of course, you're a Troll.
POSTED BY PINCHALOAF"

'Morning, stalker!

#102 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 11:27 AM | Reply

It's early but at this point I am leaning Warren or Buttigieg

#103 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-10-15 01:02 PM | Reply

"It's early but at this point I am leaning Warren or Buttigieg

#103 | POSTED BY HATTER5183"

Between those two, it will probably be Warren. No one can say Buttigieg. LOL

#104 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 01:03 PM | Reply

When the money runs out all socialism becomes Stalinist style. In capitalism the rich become powerful, in socialism the powerful become rich.

#93 | Posted by visitor_

Yes how are all those poor canadians and swedes managing to survive under those terrible stalinist regimes?

idiot.

In capitalism, the rich become powerful, capture government, then use government to get more rich and powerful, at the expense of everyone else.

#105 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

1. We spend more than any country in the world per pupil on K-12, no noticeable change in scores, in fact they are going down.

#96 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Yeah because our teachers have to be uber drivers on the side to make the rent on their little one bedroom apartments. We pay them wages the tells everyone we dont value our kids, so we attract teachers that suck.

S Korea pays their teachers well and guess what? Their schools are great.

#106 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 01:24 PM | Reply

Yeah because our teachers have to be uber drivers on the side to make the rent on their little one bedroom apartments. We pay them wages the tells everyone we dont value our kids, so we attract teachers that suck.
S Korea pays their teachers well and guess what? Their schools are great.

#106 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Average salary (not counting benefits) for teachers in this country is ~$56,000. That's working 9 months out of the year plus time off over the holidays, etc.

You are wedded to a narrative that isn't supported by facts.

www.thestreet.com

#107 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 01:35 PM | Reply

Average salary (not counting benefits) for teachers in this country is ~$56,000. That's working 9 months out of the year plus time off over the holidays, etc.

You are wedded to a narrative that isn't supported by facts.

www.thestreet.com

#107 | Posted by JeffJ

You think that's enough to attract intelligent hardworking people? Are you aware what the costs of housing, childcare, and education are now?

#108 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 01:36 PM | Reply

www.usatoday.com
'Can't pay their bills with love': In many teaching jobs, teachers' salaries can't cover rent
New teachers can't afford median rent almost anywhere. Our city-by-city analysis validates a theme in teacher strikes. But that's not the full story

#109 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 01:40 PM | Reply

The average salary of a U.S. teacher was $58,950 in 2016-'17. When adjusted for inflation, that's slightly less than what the average teacher earned almost two decades ago.

Even when benefits are thrown in, America's teachers earned 13% less in 2018 than private-sector workers with similar levels of education, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

#110 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 01:41 PM | Reply

You think that's enough to attract intelligent hardworking people?

Yes.

Are you aware what the costs of housing, childcare, and education are now?

#108 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Yes. I'm a homeowner with 2 children ages 15 and 18 - one is a sophomore in HS and one is a sophomore in college. I'm living what you just described and am making do on the equivalent of a teacher's salary, although I'm helped by my wife who works 32 hours per week.

#111 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 01:43 PM | Reply

Not true. I'm a non-liberal and I don't necessarily fit into most of your broad brush categories...

When did "far right radicals" start believing in no prayer in school, no death penalty, abortion, gay rights, women's rights, environmental issues bruce?

#98 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Sounds like a Libertarian.

Also sounds like a form of concern trolling. Good job, you have accomplished 2 of the troll types today!

[Please add this to your lexicon henceforth, and blame others for doing this because that's what good conservatrolls do when they learn something new.]

#112 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 01:44 PM | Reply

America's teachers earned 13% less in 2018 than private-sector workers with similar levels of education, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

#110 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Well, considering they only work 75% of the year I'd argue teachers do quite well compared private-sector workers with similar levels of education.

#113 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 01:47 PM | Reply

am making do on the equivalent of a teacher's salary, although I'm helped by my wife who works 32 hours per week.

#111 | Posted by JeffJ

The second part of that sentence negates the first.

What hard working intelligent person is going to sign up for a job as a teacher when they know they can make more and get more respect in the private sector?

You attract what you pay for. Everyone knows teachers struggle and are underpaid. What smart hardworking student is going to sign up for that life?

#114 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 01:47 PM | Reply

When the money runs out all socialism becomes Stalinist style. In capitalism the rich become powerful, in socialism the powerful become rich.

#93 | Posted by visitor_

The money NEVER runs out.

When the Wall Street crooks wrecked the world's economy, American taxpayers bailed these douchebags out to the tune of $12.8 Trillon ...

U.S. lent, spent, and guaranteed Wall Street $12.8 Trillion to rescue the economy
youtu.be
[9:27]

There was no lengthy debate lasting years and decades like with universal healthcare.

Our corrupt Congress simply passed legislation at the drop of a hat, and it was signed by the equally corrupt president.

So see, ideas that improve the lives of ordinary Americans like Medicare-for-all, free college, infrastructure spending, etc. are ALL very doahle.

#115 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-15 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Everyone knows teachers struggle and are underpaid....

#114 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Not a single one of the teacher's either of my boys had Pre-K - 12 fits that characterization. Yes, I know that's anecdotal.

#116 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 01:50 PM | Reply

"#107 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-10-15 01:35 PM"

Sorry Jeff, but for once speaksofty gets it right.

Teachers are grossly underpaid considering their education level. Most college grads make much more than $56,000/yr after a few years on the job.

They work much more than 40 hours a week. My sister is a 5th grade teacher. She spends at least 2 or three hours a night grading papers, preparing lesson plans, getting together materials for projects (which she pays out of her own pocker) staying after school to talk to parents about their kids' (I won't get into the stress of dealing with parents who defend their darling little class-disrupting demonic kids), the mounds of paperwork required to document aforementioned kids... I could go on because I've seen it. On stress: Sure, no job is stress free, but to have to sit and bite your tongue when a parent blames you for their ------- kid's failings must be really hard.

(on grading papers, I help her sometimes. I love grading the spelling and dictation papers. They're a hoot. The kids know I help and they say they like it when I grade theirs because I'm not as strict as my sister. I don't count 'texas' as a misspelling, e.g. just because it's not capitalizd. LOL That's a grammar, not spelling error. I'm more likely to give a 'gold star' sticker. The kids love that.)

My sister is a very good teacher and has won teacher of the year for her school twice and once for the 5th grade teacher for the entire district. Also her classes consistently do better on the standardized tests given at the end of the year. So maybe other teachers don't work as hard or put as much into it as she does.

And that brings up another thing. As hard as my sister works and even though she has won TotY three times, has the highest scoring students, she doesn't get paid a cent more than the lame ass teacher with as much tenure and whose classes are consistently the lowest academically. That pisses her off and I don't blame her. Merit should be considered in salary.

But thats the union's fault and another story.

#117 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 01:54 PM | Reply

What hard-working intelligent person would sign up to do whatever it is that speakstupid does for a living?

#118 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-15 01:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Goat,

The job has it's pitfalls (what job doesn't) but you've got to admit that teachers get a TON of time off.

Including summer we are typically looking at, 2 weeks over Christmas, a week over Spring Break, sporadic half-days and sporadic other days, including in many schools a mid-winter break of a week. During the school year teachers get as much time off as any other profession AND they get 3 months of summer off. You can't discount how huge having summer off is.

#119 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 02:14 PM | Reply

What hard-working intelligent person would sign up to do whatever it is that speakstupid does for a living?

#118 | Posted by eberly

Haha so you're saying no one would take a job that you can't name?

You just made yourself look really "special."

One day I'm being called an elitist for having a nice car, then next day I'm accused of being a trust fund baby, the next day I have a terrible job that no one would want. Your fantasies about me are entertaining.

#120 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 02:27 PM | Reply

Including summer we are typically looking at, 2 weeks over Christmas, a week over Spring Break, sporadic half-days and sporadic other days, including in many schools a mid-winter break of a week. During the school year teachers get as much time off as any other profession AND they get 3 months of summer off. You can't discount how huge having summer off is.

#119 | Posted by JeffJ

On the flip side, every summer they have to scramble to find some way to pay the bills. As if 58k a year is enough for them to just chill and sip margaritas.

#121 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 02:28 PM | Reply

"#119 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-10-15 02:14 PM "

Time off is an advantage to be sure. In Texas, the min required attndance days is 182 or half a year. So it would seem that teachers get a lot of time. But they also have in-service days during xmas and the end and beginning of school years. I think my sister said that's a total of 8 days. So a Texas teacher work 190 days a year. A Mon-Fri, 9 to 5er technically works 260 days a year. But subtract 20 days vacation, that's 240. Subtract the ten federal holidays, that's 230.

So yes, teachers do work 40 days less a year, but how many hours a week? It probably doesn't reach the number of hours of the 9 to 5ers, but it's closer than one thinks. And back to the salary, a teacher's salary is lower than a 9 to 5er with the same number of years. Of course the latter varies widely, but if you did the actually pay/hours, I think it could be proevn teachers make much less.

In my humble opinion, a teacher has one of the most important jobs in the country and sshould be paid as such. What good is an uneducated work force or adult? Remember, teachers and parents are the first ones to fill the heads of your doctors, lawyers, architects, civil engineers, and everyone who makes society run. After age 7 or 8 it is almost always exclusively the teacher filling the heads of kids.

Disclosure: I have a lot of teachers in my family, so I may be biased.

#122 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 02:31 PM | Reply

#122 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

As a CTE instructor (and educator in general), and the son of two elementary school teachers, I truly appreciate your post.

#123 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-15 02:48 PM | Reply

Goat,

I think the problem for teachers is that there is little in the way of wage increases over the years.

I think we can both agree though that Beach is grossly overpaid for what he does.

#124 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 02:50 PM | Reply

Disclosure: I have a lot of teachers in my family, so I may be biased.

#122 | Posted by goatman

That explains why you have sympathy for them instead of simply parroting right wing talking points about them.

But that also reveals a lot about the right wing mentality. The only time they have compassion or see the truth behind a situation is when it is close to them personally. They're anti gay til they have a gay son. They're anti teacher til they have one in their family. They're anti abortion til they knock up their secretary. Too bad we can't make climate change directly and convincingly affect their son/daughter so they'd be willing to do something about it.

Conservatism is just theoretical BS that crumbles when it meets the real world.

#125 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 02:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"That explains why you have sympathy for them instead of simply parroting right wing talking points about them.
#125 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

wrong again. I have sympathy for them because it's common sense

I stopped reading there. If you want me to read the rest of the post, reword it without logical fallacies, specifically, don't assign false position.

All you ever have is name calling and logical fallacies.. Why is that?

#126 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 02:56 PM | Reply

Teachers are one of Bernie's biggest supporters.

Why?

Because they don't get paid --------.

#127 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-15 02:57 PM | Reply

I think we can both agree though that Beach is grossly overpaid for what he does.
#124 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

I'm on a self-imposed 10 minute break after helping break up a brawl on campus (I'm surprised I didn't get my ass kicked this go around). I doubt typical primary teachers, who get paid almost twice than I, have to take on such monthly occurrences.

But I get it, troll.

Very funny.

#128 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-15 02:58 PM | Reply

"I think we can both agree though that Beach is grossly overpaid for what he does.

#124 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-10-15 02:50 PM |"

Yes, I do agree with that.

#129 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 03:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Teachers are one of Bernie's biggest supporters.
Why?
Because they don't get paid --------.
#127 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

It could be that, or it could be that those numbers (where did you get that, anyway? You have no citation) came from NEA and the unions loe them some Bernie.

#130 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 03:02 PM | Reply

FFS Speaks.

You could fill a barn with all of the straw you throw around.

You are wedded to narratives and broad-brushes. Your prejudices impair your ability to think critically.

#131 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-15 03:09 PM | Reply

I think the problem for teachers is that there is little in the way of wage increases over the years.
I think we can both agree though that Beach is grossly overpaid for what he does.

#124 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-10-15 02:50 PM | REPLY |

One of the most perniscious parts of act 10 written and passed by the republican legislature and signed by the republican governor, is that it makes it illegal for teachers to negotiate pay increases greater than the CPI. As a result the first paycheck any teacher in Wisconsin gets is the largest real value they will ever get.

The best they can do by law is break even each year

#132 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-10-15 03:19 PM | Reply

What has the POTUS ever done for school teachers?

Financially, I mean.

#133 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-15 04:24 PM | Reply

It could be that, or it could be that those numbers

(where did you get that, anyway? You have no citation)

#130 | POSTED BYGOATMAN

Teachers have been striking all across America.

Pay is a central grievance.

Not hard, Socrates.

#134 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-15 04:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"My invented perception of people I don't know is just theoretical BS that crumbles when it meets the real world."

-Speak the stupid

#135 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-15 04:27 PM | Reply

"Teachers have been striking all across America.
Pay is a central grievance.
Not hard, Socrates.
#134 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Deflection noted. I'll ask again:

where did you get that info, anyway? You have no citation

And also again, (though it wasn't a question, but I'll rephrase it as such)

It could be that the teachers support Bernie, or it could be the NEA is supplying those numbers, assuming all their members support them. Any comment on that?

#136 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 04:32 PM | Reply

Deflection noted. I'll ask again:

where did you get that info, anyway? You have no citation

And also again, (though it wasn't a question, but I'll rephrase it as such)

It could be that the teachers support Bernie, or it could be the NEA is supplying those numbers, assuming all their members support them. Any comment on that?

#136 | POSTED BY GOATMAM

Teachers have been striking allover America, with pay being a central issue.

Teachers are also a big supprter of Bernie, and it's been reported numerous times.

If you don't believe me, than that's on you, lazy hack.

#137 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-10-15 05:13 PM | Reply

wrong again. I have sympathy for them because it's common sense

I stopped reading there. If you want me to read the rest of the post, reword it without logical fallacies, specifically, don't assign false position.

All you ever have is name calling and logical fallacies.. Why is that?

#126 | Posted by goatman

Climate change is common sense too but you argue against fighting it all the time.

Look at you trying to derail ANOTHER thread into petty squabbles.

#138 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 05:22 PM | Reply

"My invented perception of people I don't know ...

#135 | Posted by eberly

How long has it been since you said no one would want my job (which you have no idea about)? 2 hours?

idiot.

#139 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 05:23 PM | Reply

Stupid, unless it's politics or family, there is no way you have a job that offers any kind of good compensation. Nobody would pay good money for your skills (trolling, strawman building, racebaiting)

There is simply no market for it.

#140 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-15 05:26 PM | Reply

All you ever have is name calling and logical fallacies.. Why is that?

#126 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2019-10-15 02:56 PM

NICE! You added "logical fallacies" to your lexicon! That was awful fast!

I didn't even need to remind you:
[Please add this to your lexicon henceforth, and accuse others of doing this because that's what good conservatrolls do when they learn something new.]

I eagerly await your next logical fallacy.
#69 | POSTED BY CHUFFY AT 2019-10-15 02:49 PM

#141 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 05:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Voting against your self-interests is a hot button with intelligent people because when stupid people do this, it affects not just the stupid person, it affects others. There is no defense against stupidity.

According to Cippola's Laws of Stupidity:

Law 3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

The concept of voting against your self-interests does not put you in the "fkking stupid" category solely. Someone who incurs losses to themselves and benefits to others is, according to Cippola's graph, a helpless person.

To be in the stupid category, you have to incur losses to yourself AND others. This is where, say, voting for Repubicans falls in line with voting against your self-interests and being fkking stupid at the same time. This is where I believe Drumpf supporters fall, for the most part. They think that Drumpf is a bandit, but he's really just stupid.

Bandits benefit themselves, but incur losses to others. Most Repubicans fall into this category. That changed when they elected a reality show host whose economic brilliance was highlighted by bankrupting several casinos.

I'm afraid I'm going to probably miss out on GOAT-TROLL's appropriation of this concept in whatever post (insert pronoun here) frantically trolls to derailment later...

#142 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 05:53 PM | Reply

Sanders Calls Warren a 'Capitalist'

what a millionaire hypocrite sitting in his multi-million dollar mansion being protected by Security with Guns and a wall

#143 | Posted by Maverick at 2019-10-15 05:56 PM | Reply

"I'm afraid I'm going to probably miss out on GOAT-TROLL's appropriation of this concept in whatever post (insert pronoun here) frantically trolls to derailment later...

#142 | POSTED BY CHUFFY "

Says the guy who is trolling me with this post.

You can't make this ---- up.

Do as you say, not as you do -- right proggie?

#144 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 05:59 PM | Reply

"Climate change is common sense too but you argue against fighting it all the time.
#138 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY"

I've never once fought against it. In fact, I avoid climate change threads.

Why do you lie so much?

#145 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:00 PM | Reply

""Climate change is common sense
POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY"

You meltdown if I talk about things off topic, yet here you are bringing up climate change on a thread about sanders calling Warren a capitalist.

Do as you say, not as you do, right proggie?

Why are you such a hypocrite?

#146 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:02 PM | Reply

Stupid, unless it's politics or family, there is no way you have a job that offers any kind of good compensation. Nobody would pay good money for your skills (trolling, strawman building, racebaiting)

There is simply no market for it.

#140 | Posted by eberly

So one day you're saying I must be rich and accusing me of inheriting my money, the next you're saying there's no way I can have a good job. Then as a topper you say I invent things about people I dont know.

Want to keep digging this hole?

#147 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 06:02 PM | Reply

"Teachers have been striking allover America, with pay being a central issue.
Teachers are also a big supprter of Bernie, and it's been reported numerous times.
If you don't believe me, than that's on you, lazy hack.

#137 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF "

Two deflections -- you're out.

Better luck next time.

#148 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:03 PM | Reply

^^LOL^^

Such offensive language for someone who is so civil! tsk tsk.

And name-calling.

I have to retire to my fainting couch, that was such a devastating retort...

#149 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 06:04 PM | Reply

"Voting against your self-interests is a hot button with intelligent people because when stupid people do this,

POSTED BY CHUFFY"

Only arrogant people full of themselves and hubris pretend to know what is best for other people.

#150 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:04 PM | Reply

I've never once fought against it. In fact, I avoid climate change threads.

Why do you lie so much?

#145 | Posted by goatman

You have used the tu quoque climate denier defense of "if you use any oil, you can't advocate for cleaner energy" horsecrap. It was one of the first things that ever really made me remember who anyone on this site was because it was so incredibly stupid.

#151 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 06:04 PM | Reply

"And name-calling.
I have to retire to my fainting couch, that was such a devastating retort...

#149 | POSTED BY CHUFFY "

Yes, I called her a hypocrite in much the same way I would call a table a table. I proved her hypocrisy, therefore she is a hypocrite. If I called her a hypocrite with no proof, that would be name calling in the context i use the phrase.

Is there a problem with that? Or are you trolling?

#152 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:07 PM | Reply

"I've never once fought against it. In fact, I avoid climate change threads.
Why do you lie so much?
POSTED BY GOATMAN"

You have used the tu quoque climate denier defense of "if you use any oil, you can't advocate for cleaner energy" horsecrap. It was one of the first things that ever really made me remember who anyone on this site was because it was so incredibly stupid.

#151 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

Deflection noted.

I'll ask again:

I never fought against global warming as you claimed. Why do you say I do?

#153 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:08 PM | Reply

Good thing I am not pretending to know what's best for other people. If you finish that sentence you partially quoted, with the "it affects others." bit, then my comment is less "pretending to know what's best for other people," and more, "stupid people's decisions affect others, too." Negatively. That's not hubris, that's reality. I am just fine with someone else being stupid if it only affects them. When their stupidity affects ME, however, it's a different ballgame.

#154 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 06:11 PM | Reply

(and not just me, others are also included in that equation)

#155 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 06:13 PM | Reply

"NICE! You added "logical fallacies" to your lexicon! That was awful fast!

POSTED BY CHUFFY "

Yeah, I did added it well over 50 years ago when I was on the HS debate team. Fast? Um, if you say so.

Lame troll, troll.

#156 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:14 PM | Reply

Uh oh, Speaks, "tu quoque?" How long before GOAT-TROLL uses that in another comments thread?

#157 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 06:15 PM | Reply

"Uh oh, Speaks, "tu quoque?" How long before GOAT-TROLL uses that in another comments thread?

#157 | POSTED BY CHUFFY "

It depends on how long until it's necessary.

I have smarter trolls and stalkers than you. Though despicable, at least I don't feel I'm picking low hanging fruit when I respnd to them. Think you could ramp it up a few IQ point?

Thanks!

On better thought -- your snowflake proggies will continue their freakout over my responding to you. People like Americanunity will will cut and paste every other post and claim I'm the one who trashed the thread. So out of respect for those poor souls, you'll have to continue your obsession on this post without me.

Bye, now!

#158 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:19 PM | Reply

-So one day you're saying I must be rich and accusing me of inheriting my money,

Don't remember that

#159 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-15 06:20 PM | Reply

Yeah, I did added it well over 50 years ago when I was on the HS debate team. Fast? Um, if you say so

I don't have the time to do this right now, but I'm willing to bet that "Logical fallacies" hasn't appeared in a single one of your 10,000 comments this month (hyperbole as a form of sarcasm), let alone in the entire history of your trolldom on the DR. We have the records. But, as you see above in my time-stamped messages, you used the term a mere 7 minutes after I did in another thread. Like you used the definition of Internet troll that I posted the other day.

Good troll! Extra troll points for you!

#160 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 06:21 PM | Reply

For the rest of you here on the DR, I apologize for feeding the troll. I will now commence with ignoring the troll. TTFN

#161 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-10-15 06:26 PM | Reply

"For the rest of you here on the DR, I apologize for feeding the troll. I will now commence with ignoring the troll. TTFN

#161 | POSTED BY CHUFFY "

YEA! I hope that means you don't initiate trolling posts aimed at me any more, too! That means that's one less stalker on my list.

Thanks, man!

#162 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-15 06:31 PM | Reply

I never fought against global warming as you claimed. Why do you say I do?

#153 | Posted by goatman

Saying people have to use no oil before they can advocate for cleaner energy IS fighting against doing something about climate change dumbass.

Now whine about me calling you names instead of refuting that or god forbid discussing the topic of the thread.

#163 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-15 07:51 PM | Reply

Do as I say not as I do. Is one of the mottoes of a Marxist.

#164 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-10-15 11:26 PM | Reply

"Saying people have to use no oil before they can advocate for cleaner energy IS fighting against doing something about climate change dumbass."

Those advocating for cleaner energy have little credibility if they arrived at their podium on a private jet, which will consume as much jet fuel in three hours (pretty much the same as Diesel) as a Diesel pickup would over the course of a year.

#165 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-16 01:31 PM | Reply

Do as I say not as I do. Is one of the mottoes of a Marxist.

#164 | Posted by visitor_

If you dont let us run the country your only other choice is marxism. Is one of the mottos of a sociopathic plutocrat.

#166 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-16 04:06 PM | Reply

"Do as I say not as I do. Is one of the mottoes of a Marxist.
#164 | Posted by visitor_"

I guess the United States is Marxist, since your Congress passes laws that get carried out by the Executive Branch; laws that don't apply to Congress.

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-16 04:13 PM | Reply

"I don't have the time to do this right now, but I'm willing to bet that "Logical fallacies" hasn't appeared in a single one of your 10,000 comments this month (hyperbole as a form of sarcasm), let alone in the entire history of your trolldom on the DR. We have the records. But, as you see above in my time-stamped messages, you used the term a mere 7 minutes after I did in another thread. Like you used the definition of Internet troll that I posted the other day.
Good troll! Extra troll points for you!

#160 | POSTED BY CHUFFY

I'll take that bet. What does the winner get?

#168 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-16 05:26 PM | Reply

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