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Saturday, October 19, 2019

A federal judge's ruling on Friday temporarily blocked a Florida law giving felons who have completed their sentences their voting rights back only after they've fully paid their fines, fees, and restitution.

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I agree with this. Makes sense.

Except in circumstances like pedo or certain murders, if you serve your debt to society, you should get your rights back.

#1 | Posted by boaz at 2019-10-18 11:24 PM | Reply

#1

Agreed with everything you just wrote.

#2 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-18 11:39 PM | Reply

if you serve your debt to society, you should get your rights back.
#1 | POSTED BY BOAZ

But they haven't paid their debt to society ....

#3 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-19 12:32 AM | Reply

This preliminary injunction is far more narrow than the headline implies. It only applies to 17 named plaintiffs in 8 counties. The ruling is based on those plaintiffs' inability to pay the fines, etc because the franchise cannot be conditioned on ability to pay. Other registrars should certainly take note lest they deny the franchise to another even though the person cannot pay and risk being sued.

The court intentionally avoided the larger issue of whether Amendment 4 and the enabling legislation impermissibly require payment of the fines, etc because that issue is currently pending in the FL Supreme Court.

That said, I like the way this judge writes. It's almost as if he's talking rather than writing.

#4 | Posted by et_al at 2019-10-19 01:17 AM | Reply

If owing a fine is going to determine if you can vote or not, what about parking tickets? Are they going to start 'running your license' when show-up at the polling place?

OCU

#5 | Posted by OCUser at 2019-10-19 02:18 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Agreed with everything you just wrote.

#2 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-10-18 11:39 PM | FLAG:

And I just had a stroke...

#6 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-10-19 12:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Ever wonder why the dems want felons to be able to vote? It is because they know that the majority of those who violate the laws of our states and country tend to be dems; think about that..... I guess another way to look at that is that the majority of dems are potential felons ; )

#7 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-10-19 12:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Democrats would benefit from additional ex-felon participation," said the authoritative study in The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science.

The authors, professors from the University of Pennsylvania and Stanford University, found that in some states, felons register Democratic by more than six-to-one. In New York, for example, 61.5 percent of convicts are Democrats, just 9 percent Republican. They also cited a study that found 73 percent of convicts who turn out for presidential elections would vote Democrat. "

#8 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-19 12:17 PM | Reply

You have cause and effect backwards. Most people who go to prison eventually get out. The republican party has spent decades enacting policies that make it harder for an ex felon to survive in society once they get out. Republicans want the world to believe that felons vote democrat because democrats are criminals. They vote democrat because Republicans continuously make it harder for them to get jobs, find a place to live, and all the things that allow for a normal life.

The republicans haven't learned the basic truth that if you make it harder for people to live within the law, more of them will live outside of the law.

#9 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-10-19 12:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Well, then. Pass laws that prohibit dem voters from voting.

Easy.

#10 | Posted by contrecoup at 2019-10-19 12:49 PM | Reply

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I'm guessing felons vote democrat because they can get free stuff without the inconvenience of robbing stores and homes.

#11 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-19 12:59 PM | Reply

" republicans haven't learned the basic truth that if you make it harder for people to live within the law, more of them will live outside of the law."

They are well aware of this basic truth.

Thus their fixation on passing laws that disenfranchise undesirables.

#12 | Posted by contrecoup at 2019-10-19 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"only after they've fully paid their fines, fees, and restitution"

Naturally, right-wingers support the aforementioned de facto poll taxes.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-19 01:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I'm guessing felons vote democrat because they can get free stuff without the inconvenience of robbing stores and homes."

Non-felons vote Republican because they want an increase in robbing stores and homes.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-19 01:29 PM | Reply

Ever wonder why the dems want felons to be able to vote? It is because they know that the majority of those who violate the laws of our states and country tend to be dems; think about that

Yeah, it's almost like people who spend years of their life locked away in a hellhole end up needing a halfway decent social safety net when they re-enter society, and gravitate toward the party norw likely to provide that. Shocking!

#15 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-19 01:34 PM | Reply

*more

#16 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-19 01:34 PM | Reply

The racist drug laws were designed to remove the "unwanted" from the voting rolls and place them into for profit prisons.
Now you got white people pounding their chest screaming about how blacks commit most of the crime....and should never be allowed to vote.
Disgusting IMO

#17 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2019-10-19 01:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" found that in some states, felons register Democratic by more than six-to-one. In New York, for example, 61.5 percent of convicts are Democrats, just 9 percent Republican. "

For this to be a meaningful comparison, we would have to know if that is an increase in Democrat registrations from their pre-felon days.

Because if it's not, all you're doing is making the case that denying felons the vote is a clear bias against Democrats.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-19 01:37 PM | Reply

"The racist drug laws were designed to remove the "unwanted" from the voting rolls and place them into for profit prisons."

Thanks, Capitalism!

To be fair, for-profit prisons came later.
Nixon did not have for-profit prisons on his mind when he decided pot smokers needed to be locked up for decades and prevented from ever voting again.
He had the Vietnam War on his mind, and re-election on his mind, and hoping MLK's movement died with MLK on his mind.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-19 01:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This preliminary injunction is far more narrow than the headline implies. It only applies to 17 named plaintiffs in 8 counties.

I noticed that and wondered why the suit wasn't brought on behalf of all others similarly situated. Anyone have any thoughts?

#20 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-19 01:53 PM | Reply

I'm guessing felons vote democrat because they can get free stuff without the inconvenience of robbing stores and homes.

#11 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-10-19 12:59 PM | FLAG:

Like Scooter Libby and G. Gordon Liddy?

#21 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-10-19 02:11 PM | Reply

if you serve your debt to society, you should get your rights back.
#1 | POSTED BY BOAZ

But they haven't paid their debt to society ....

#3 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2019-10-19 12:32 AM

If I were to get arrested for possessing a 1/4 pound of marijuana and be convicted then serve - say - 8 years time before release, exactly what the f___ do I owe society upon my release?

#22 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-10-19 02:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Ever wonder why the dems want felons to be able to vote?

Ex felons who have served their time.

Don't look now. But Republicans also agree with this.

#23 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-19 02:18 PM | Reply

Ever wonder why the dems want felons to be able to vote? It is because they know that the majority of those who violate the laws of our states and country tend to be dems; think about that..... I guess another way to look at that is that the majority of dems are potential felons ; )

#7 | POSTED BY MSGT AT 2019-10-19 12:07 PM | FLAG:

Boaz is a Democrat? See #1

#24 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-10-19 02:18 PM | Reply

I'm guessing...
#11 | POSTED BY NULLI

You should have stopped there to prevent yourself from posting something that makes you seem like an ignorant fool.

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-19 02:20 PM | Reply

Let's settle this:

And no, I didn't cherry pick this. There are several other stories that corroborate this one. I didn't see a single one that said convicts are more likely to vote republican

"Most Convicts Vote Democrat, Study Shows"

The numbers are actually pretty stark. In the three states the study analyzed " New York, New Mexico, and North Carolina " convicts overwhelmingly identified with the Democratic Party. Almost 62% of convicts in New York are registered Democrats and only 9% are Republican; 52% in New Mexico are Democrat, with just over 10% as Republican; and 54.6% are Democrat in North Carolina, and 10.2% are Republican.

www.mic.com

Actually, this isn't surprising since a disproportinate number of convicts are black, and they generally vote democrat.

#26 | Posted by goatman at 2019-10-19 02:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#26 You're starting to get it!
But good luck explaining it to Republicans...

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-19 02:26 PM | Reply

Ex felons who have served their time.

That's not the question. The question is whether the amendment's use of the term "completion of all terms of sentence including parole or probation" includes payment of fines, fees and restitution. As this court notes but does not decide, the answer could go either way. That question is currently before the FL Supreme Court. Assuming the term includes payment, this case makes it crystal clear that those with a genuine inability to pay cannot be denied the vote.

#28 | Posted by et_al at 2019-10-19 02:47 PM | Reply

"The question is whether the amendment's use of the term "completion of all terms of sentence including parole or probation" includes payment of fines, fees and restitution."

Okay, but why should that even be up for debate, in light of the 24th Amendment?

I guess it's because our jurisprudence has taken us to a place where "payment of fines, fees and restitution" can't ever be "any poll tax or other tax." The fact that ex-felons have to pay money to the state before they're allowed to vote notwithstanding.

Is that accurate, Et_Al?

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-19 03:11 PM | Reply

Actually, this isn't surprising since a disproportinate number of convicts are black, and they generally vote democrat.
#26 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Bingo.

#30 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-10-19 04:10 PM | Reply

Since most white millionaires and billionaires vote Republican, why are you shocked when most minorities feel that perhaps they would be better off voting for the opposing party?

OCU

#31 | Posted by OCUser at 2019-10-19 05:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Just because no one else seems to be bothered by it, Isn't taxation without representation on the short list of things our country was formed in opposition to? You want them out and working and contributing to society then let them participate in society. If you want lifetime punishment then impose life sentences and keep them locked up. Often upon release ex-cons are still punished. That is why I am in support of the ban the box movement. That little check box on an application that says have you ever been convicted of a felony. There are six states where Felons cant even get food stamps. The box prevents them from getting jobs their applications are filed in the little round cabinet under the desk. This often leaves them with no legal means to support themselves. Then when they resort to crime we point our fingers and say "see? he has a criminal mentality." Its all false statistics because we compare people stuck on the merry-go-round with people who have none of the obstacles WE PUT IN FRONT OF THEM

#32 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-10-19 06:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

I forgot to mention my other related pet peeve. People who find one person who dragged themselves out of the quicksand and succeeded in spite of all the obstacles and pretend it proves there are no obstacles and somehow if they all just worked harder or longer or smarter employers would read past the little checkbox

#33 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-10-19 08:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#33

THIS^^^^

#34 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2019-10-19 08:40 PM | Reply

32 nailed it

#35 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-10-20 08:16 AM | Reply

Will this eventually lead to more 2nd amendment rights being restored after a completion of a jail sentence? I am of the belief that nonviolent felonies should not disqualify you from gun ownership.

#36 | Posted by byrdman at 2019-10-20 09:09 AM | Reply

That's what I'm wondering. If you can vote, they should probably give your guns back.

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-10-20 04:08 PM | Reply

#37 Across America it's more common to re-arm felons than re-franchise felons.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-10-20 04:10 PM | Reply

Look at that. Only an 8 year wait in Florida to get your guns back, and only 5 in Texas. So much for that tough on crime schtick.

#39 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-10-20 05:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There are six states where Felons cant even get food stamps. The box prevents them from getting jobs their applications are filed in the little round cabinet under the desk. This often leaves them with no legal means to support themselves. Then when they resort to crime we point our fingers and say "see? he has a criminal mentality."

The private prison industry needs them to fill beds.

#40 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-10-21 07:00 AM | Reply

Like almost everything else in the South, this issue boils down to race.

#41 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-10-21 11:10 AM | Reply

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