Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 23, 2019

Former Vice President Joe Biden's lead in the race for the Democratic nomination for president has rebounded, and now stands at its widest margin since April, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

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I'm going to vote for the candidate that hates Russia and Socialism.

#1 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-10-23 12:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Biden had a much bigger lead in late May when you average all the polls.

www.realclearpolitics.com

#2 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 12:26 PM | Reply

And Sanders/Warren still combine to beat him.

#3 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#3

Agreed, but there is always a % of voters for both Warren and Sanders that can't stand the other, and will migrate to another alternative. If it is just the three of them left standing, some of those voters will go to Biden. Also, if Mayor Pete and The Klob are out of the running, those voters should mostly go to Biden.

#4 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-23 12:48 PM | Reply

Who?

#5 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-10-23 12:50 PM | Reply

Joe,

That was his initial spike.

This is sustained.

Biden's going to be the nominee.

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-23 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

there is always a % of voters for both Warren and Sanders that can't stand the other, and will migrate to another alternative

Sure, but that's a minority. None of the otber candidates are nearly as progressive as Bernie so it'd be quite a stretch for someone with any principles at all to skip Warren and go to Biden.

#7 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 12:57 PM | Reply

In the RCP link above, when you average all polls, Bernie/Warren combine for 39.3%, compred to Biden's 28.9%.

That means that even if 25% of Sanders/Warren voters declined to support the other candidate if one dropped out and endorsed the other, the remaining candidate would still be beating Biden.

#8 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 01:00 PM | Reply

But you cannot assume that Warren voters would move more toward Bernie than they would Biden. I am leaning Biden, but also like Warrnen. Take her out and I DO NOT vote Bernie. People may not skip Warren and go Biden, but I can guarantee that in my circle of friends none of them are moving to Bernie if Warren exits, or if they do they will deny it to the rest of us.

#9 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-10-23 01:29 PM | Reply

#8

And where do the other 33% go? Most of the other candidates are closer to the Center than they are to the Progressive Left, so when they drop out the additive effect is going to help Biden far more than it will the Progressive alternative in late Spring.

Don't get me wrong, one of Warren/Sanders will be the alternative choice to Biden but at the end of the day that candidate is going to have to pivot more towards the middle to try to get the voters whose candidates have quit the race.

#10 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-23 01:32 PM | Reply

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you cannot assume that Warren voters would move more toward Bernie than they would Biden

If that's really your argument i have nothing to say.

And where do the other 33% go?

Fair point. I'd like to think that a meaningful progression candidacy could motivate enough new voters to overcome the center, but that's probably wishful thinking at best

#11 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 01:45 PM | Reply

*progressive

#12 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 01:45 PM | Reply

#11

I'd like to think that a meaningful progression candidacy could motivate enough new voters to overcome the center, but that's probably wishful thinking at best

I think that is where the Overton Window comes into play, certainly some of Bernie's ideas from 2016 have moved closer, if not into the fringes of that window but at some point everything gravitates towards the center, regardless of origin.

#13 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-23 02:00 PM | Reply

Biden will not be the nominee

#14 | Posted by hamburglar at 2019-10-23 03:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Biden will not be the nominee
#14 | POSTED BY HAMBURGLAR

Biden is being kept around to keep it from being a two-way race so early on and to prevent real distinctions from being made between Sanders and Warren.

#15 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-23 03:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Which all makes Biden/Warren or Mayor Pete or someone else younger than Warren, a winning ticket in the general election.

I'd rather have Warren or Bernie as President, but Biden is more likely to take disenchanted middle voters from Trump.

But, of course, that is only if one is willing to be more concerned about winning; about beating Trump at all costs... than about one's favorite candidate being elected.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-23 03:29 PM | Reply

It's pretty difficult for me to take advice on how to beat Trump from the guy who shilled the hardest for the candidate that lost to Trump.

#17 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 04:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#17 |

It's pretty difficult for me to take advice on how to beat Trump from a guy who's dominant fantasy is that Bernie would have no doubt beaten Trump.

I, and many others, doubt that someone who lost the much more liberal vote in the Dem primary by a multi-million vote landslide would have done better than coming to within a fraction of a fraction of a percent in the EC, as Hillary did, by winning the much more moderate/conservative national vote.

But then, since you didn't have a real argument for what I actually said, attacking me was your go to solution. A lot of people have learned that that isn't always pleasant. Others never learn.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-23 04:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

RoC... here is a fivethirtyeight analysis of where voters might cross over to other candidates. Seems relevant to the conversation you are having.

fivethirtyeight.com

#19 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-10-23 04:52 PM | Reply

#18

All those words don't change the fact that you insisted on a candidate who couldn't beat a racist game show host who rapes people.

#20 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 05:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

I, and many others, doubt that someone who lost the much more liberal vote in the Dem primary by a multi-million vote landslide would have done better than coming to within a fraction of a fraction of a percent in the EC, as Hillary did, by winning the much more moderate/conservative national vote

#18 | Posted by Corky

That's because you ignore the difference between a primary and general election.
In the primary, red states matter. In the general, they dont.

If we nominate the person who does best in the red states- aka BIDEN - we'll lose the general, because those red state voters can't help us.
If we nominate the person who does best in the swing states - whoever that may be - we'll win the general.

Want to win? Ignore who polls well in the red states. It's irrelevant in the general election.

THAT is why people say bernie stood a better change than hillary. He did better in swing states. She did better in red states. Lot of good it did her.

#21 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 06:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I need to be brutally honest about Biden. That he encouraged his son to get on that board, earning $50,00.00 dollars per month, come on, the Republicans will destroy him over that. Democrats need to recognize that and tell Joe Biden that he lost his chance to ever be President but us Domocrats do not need to go down with Biden. We need a better candidate than any of the those running right now, Tom Steyer might be that candidate but I'm not ready to say he is but I am ready to say, we need a stronger candidate than any that are running..
We need to win this election, we need an FDR, a John kennedy, a Barrack Obama. I've been searching my mind trying to think of who that is. Suggestions anyone?

#22 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-23 07:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We need a better candidate than any of the those running right now,
Suggestions anyone?
#22 | POSTED BY DANNI

My crystal ball see Hillary preparing to run again.
She says she can beat the Donald again.
Run Hillary! Run!

#23 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-23 07:48 PM | Reply

We need to win this election, we need an FDR, a John kennedy, a Barrack Obama. I've been searching my mind trying to think of who that is. Suggestions anyone?

#22 | Posted by danni

You need to take obama down off that pedestal. Sure he had great crossover appeal to minorities, whites, liberals, and bankers. But it was unsustainable. His protection of the plutocrats made the liberals feel betrayed by their party, which is what got trump elected.

We need someone who disaffected americans feel will fight for them, not someone who can somehow appeal to them AND bankers AND every minority group.

#24 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 07:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And we have a couple of those options already.

None of them have that special movie star obama oratory appeal, but get over it. That is a once in century type skill.

#25 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 07:55 PM | Reply

"That he encouraged his son to get on that board, earning $50,000.00 dollars per month, come on, the Republicans will destroy him over that."

Are you sure about that? All this fretting over Biden's dirty laundry sounds almost exactly like the predictions that Trump's dirty laundry would do him in and prevent him from being elected.

In any event, Biden is still the most likely to beat Trump electorally out of all the candidates currently running. If anyone thinks someone else has a better shot, they should identify that candidate and make an actual compelling argument before throwing their actual front runner under the bus.

#26 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-10-23 07:57 PM | Reply

I'll see a McRib sandwich before I see a Biden sign or bumper sticker. Anybody seen a Biden sign that isn't Obama/Biden?

#27 | Posted by hamburglar at 2019-10-23 07:58 PM | Reply

THAT is why people say bernie stood a better change than hillary. He did better in swing states. She did better in red states. Lot of good it did her.
#21 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

To be fair if she just visited them and campaigned in those states IMO she might have won Wisconsin. Clinton had a good pull when she visited states ..

In general, none of the presidential or vice presidential candidates " including Clinton " significantly influenced voting via campaign visits. However, Clinton is one of only two candidates " along with Mike Pence, in Ohio " whose campaign visits had a significant effect on voting in an individual state. Specifically, Clinton's visits to Pennsylvania improved the Democratic ticket's performance in that state by 1.2 percentage points. Also, there is weak evidence to suggest that Clinton might have had a similar effect on voting in Michigan. It is unclear from this evidence whether Clinton also would have gained votes, or even won, in Wisconsin had she campaigned in that state. But two conclusions are clear. First, Clinton's visits to Democratic-leaning battleground states did not have the "backfiring" effect that her campaign reportedly feared. Second, Donald Trump did not win in Pennsylvania, Michigan, or Wisconsin as a direct result of his campaign visits to those decisive states.
ecommons.udayton.edu

None of them have that special movie star obama oratory appeal, but get over it.

Interesting, never thought other than his 2004 speech felt is oratory skill was all that great, you remove his teleprompter and he was a disaster.

#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-23 08:09 PM | Reply

Are you sure about that? All this fretting over Biden's dirty laundry sounds almost exactly like the predictions that Trump's dirty laundry would do him in and prevent him from being elected.

#26 | Posted by sentinel

Yeah but dems frown on crime. Repubs admire it. If its in their own party. It's easier to win when your party has no morals or shame.

#29 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 08:10 PM | Reply

Interesting, never thought other than his 2004 speech felt is oratory skill was all that great, you remove his teleprompter and he was a disaster.

#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris

And if you remove trump's helicopter he sounds weak. He knows he only sounds strong when shouting which is why he has all his press conferences in front of a jet engine. He's really impressive on knowing how to manipulate the minds of morons.

#30 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 08:12 PM | Reply

#30 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Deflect much?

#31 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-23 08:16 PM | Reply

#30 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

You sound salty bro, go get a beer chill ...

#32 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-23 08:17 PM | Reply

I'll see a McRib sandwich before I see a Biden sign or bumper sticker. Anybody seen a Biden sign that isn't Obama/Biden?

Do you actually use signs and bumper stickers for primary races?

#33 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-10-23 08:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#20 |

I'll take all those words as meaning, "no mas!" a second time when given the chance to make a substantive argument to my original comment.

- He did better in swing states.

He did better in states where there were undemocratic caucuses rather than actual votes.

But hey, if you want to continue to re-fight the '16 primary and then take your vote and go home when YOUR candidate doesn't win, then we'll likely get the same outcome.

But then, you, like Jose, could have had a substantive comment to my original point, but you also passed on the opportunity.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-23 08:25 PM | Reply

Yeah but dems frown on crime. Repubs admire it. If its in their own party. It's easier to win when your party has no morals or shame.
#29 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Gees! Why didn't I think of that. So that's why Trump beat Hillary!
Hillary has too much integrity.
The Democrats need a candidate more corrupt than Trump. More corrupt than Biden. More corrupt than Sanders. More Corrupt than Warren.
Who shall it be? How about Schiff? Pelosi? C'mon Dems. This should be easy.

#35 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-23 09:02 PM | Reply

You sound salty bro, go get a beer chill ...

#32 | Posted by AndreaMackris

It's always funny to hear the victims of a con man telling those who didn't fall for the con that they're overreacting. No. You're under reacting. Just too dumb to see it.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 09:12 PM | Reply

But hey, if you want to continue to re-fight the '16 primary and then take your vote and go home when YOUR candidate doesn't win, then we'll likely get the same outcome.

But then, you, like Jose, could have had a substantive comment to my original point, but you also passed on the opportunity.

#34 | Posted by Corky

We can stop re fighting 2016 when the sellout supporters agree to take a different approach. This isn't about 2016, this is about not REPEATING 2016.

#37 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 09:13 PM | Reply

Gees! Why didn't I think of that. So that's why Trump beat Hillary!
Hillary has too much integrity.
The Democrats need a candidate more corrupt than Trump. More corrupt than Biden. More corrupt than Sanders. More Corrupt than Warren.
Who shall it be? How about Schiff? Pelosi? C'mon Dems. This should be easy.

#35 | Posted by Ray

Yes, compared to trump, hillary had incredible integrity. Compared to trump, harvey weinstein has incredible integrity.

Aww look at you hating whoever the con man tells you to hate like a trained dog. What an intellectually superior nonpartisan independent you are.

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 09:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Yes, compared to trump, hillary had incredible integrity. Compared to trump, harvey weinstein has incredible integrity....

#38 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Why stop there?

Compared to Trump...

Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy - incredible integrity.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-23 09:21 PM | Reply

Yes, compared to trump, hillary had incredible integrity. Compared to trump, harvey weinstein has incredible integrity.

POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-10-23 09:15 PM | REPLY

ROFLMMFAO GIGGLES TEEHEEHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#40 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-10-23 09:30 PM | Reply

Why stop there?

Compared to Trump...

Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy - incredible integrity.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ

Because I was being literal, not hyperbolic.

Although I'm sure pretty good arguments could be made for any of them having more integrity as trump. They were all their own men, not the puppet of foreign tyrants.

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 09:32 PM | Reply

C'mon Speak. You laid out the game plan for beating Trump.
Now you're backtracking.

What an intellectually superior nonpartisan independent you are.

Again. I don't vote because all the candidates are evil.

When forming opinions about news events, I always take the side of lessor evil.

The only Democrat in my lifetime who was more evil than the Clintons was Lyndon Johnson.
On the Republican side, it's the two Bushs'.

#42 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-23 09:37 PM | Reply

more evil than the Clintons was Lyndon Johnson.

He was a vicious, nasty piece of work.

#43 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-23 09:39 PM | Reply

"I'll have these ------ voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-23 09:40 PM | Reply

Again. I don't vote because all the candidates are evil.

When forming opinions about news events, I always take the side of lessor evil.

#42 | Posted by Ray

Again, you say they're all evil, but you only whine about democrats. If you think republicans are the lesser evil, you are proving you are not too bright.

#45 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-23 09:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Jeff

Johnson's rise is well documented in "The Case Against Congress" by Drew Pearson and Jack Anderson.
I read it when it was first published in 1968.
I was young then. So I was shocked by how Johnson and Ladybird screwed people over.

They were ruthless to the core.

#46 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-23 09:48 PM | Reply

"I'll have these ------ voting Democratic for the next 200 years." - #44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-23 09:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Unproven

#47 | Posted by Hans at 2019-10-23 09:51 PM | Reply

Again, you say they're all evil, but you only whine about democrats. If you think republicans are the lesser evil, you are proving you are not too bright.

Of course. How could I forget. You see no evil in taxes. You see no evil in Hillary.

To call me "not too bright" is one of finest compliments any Marxist could pay me. Your mind is a complete void.

After this post, I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the night. All you are doing is throwing words at me.

#48 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-23 09:57 PM | Reply

"You see no evil in taxes." - #48 | Posted by Raystradamus at 2019-10-23 09:57 PM

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society." - US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

#49 | Posted by Hans at 2019-10-23 10:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Ray's been hit by so many pieces of falling sky he doesn't know north from south." - Nullifidian

#50 | Posted by Hans at 2019-10-23 10:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 4

- when the sellout supporters agree to take a different approach.

Hey, something we agree on!

When the self-absorbed puss*es of the far left; a minority of the far left, but still enough to help elect Trump... decide that it's more important to keep Trump out of office than to get Bernie rather than Biden... otherwise they'll sit on their hands or throw away their votes on people with zero chance of winning... then maybe we can win.

It was they who buh-lieved Comey's letter the week of the election, listened to media stories about how Trump couldn't win... and then decided she didn't deserve their vote.

And in the process sold out the poor and the middle class who are much more affected by Trump and GOP policies than most of their well off yuppy to millennial asses are.

Saddle up, sweetie.

www.youtube.com

#51 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-23 10:05 PM | Reply

The power to tax is the power to destroy.
Daniel Webster

Good night Hans.

#52 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-23 10:10 PM | Reply

Ray is completely full of ---- as per usual.

HEY Hans!

LBJ brought electricity to one of the nation's last outpost of poverty in S. Texas when he started in politics, and as Pres shepherded the Great Society policies that leveled the playing field for a generation and saved millions of lives.

Then, as Pres, he left office when he realized his mistakes in 'Nam... which is something this orange piece of trash we have now could never even conceive of doing.

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-23 10:10 PM | Reply

When viewed strictly from a policy and political achievement standpoint, LBJ was above the median.

That doesn't change the fact that as a person he was one nasty, cruel and vindictive SOB.

#54 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-10-23 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'll take all those words as meaning, "no mas!" a second time when given the chance to make a substantive argument to my original comment.

Take them that way if it makes you feel better. You have no space to tell people how to beat Trump. Your preferred candidate lost to him. You don't know how to beat Trump. Time to admit that and pass the reigns to someone else.

#55 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-23 10:21 PM | Reply

Hey Ray - #52 - did you know Marshall stated in his decision "That the power of taxing it by the States may be exercised so as to destroy it, is too obvious to be denied" but said more? He didn't leave it at a cut off, cherry picked quote that you found agreed with your distain and bitterness. Marshall went further stating "But all inconsistencies are to be reconciled by the magic of the word CONFIDENCE. Taxation, it is said, does not necessarily and unavoidably destroy. To carry it to the excess of destruction would be an abuse, to presume which would banish that confidence which is essential to all Government."

Our entire Government was founded on No Taxation without Representation, which directly supports the necessity and rightful power of the government to tax.

#56 | Posted by YAV at 2019-10-23 10:27 PM | Reply

Interesting, never thought other than his 2004 speech felt is oratory skill was all that great, you remove his teleprompter and he was a disaster.

#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Dude.

Disaster is Trump even with his teleprompter.

#57 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-23 10:46 PM | Reply

#18

Thanks for that, I saw that article, most of those "other" candidates that people are considering (other than Mayor Pete) are statistically even with Biden and the alternatives are all moderate, which then leans more in Biden's favor.

It also doesn't do the reverse analysis of where Warren's candidates would go, which I realize isn't the point of the article but would be an interesting analysis as well.

#58 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-23 10:55 PM | Reply

Sorry GT, that should be a response to 19, 18 is typical Dorkus Drivel (tm).

#59 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-23 10:56 PM | Reply

I don't think that Warren would have a great chance against Trump, but if Bernie is the nominee, Trump may as well go on vacation until the election. The Dems will have handed him a cheap and easy victory.

The Bros don't get it. They're like the Weather Underground in 1969, who believed that revolution was just around the corner. They don't get out of their own head much.

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-23 11:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The power to tax is the power to destroy.
Daniel Webster

Good night Hans.

#52 | Posted by Ray

So go live somewhere where there aren't any taxes or the benefits of a society that uses taxes for the greater good.

Be sure to take all your gold with you, I'm sure you'll be able to hold on to it with no problems whatsoever.

#61 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-23 11:06 PM | Reply

"So go live somewhere where there aren't any taxes or the benefits of a society that uses taxes for the greater good."

So...here's the thing. I'm not totally sure you would want to move to a place where taxes are used to fund the "greater good."

Like I've said over and over...I live in Europe. Most countries have a VAT of around 20%, the proceeds of which are used provide for the greater good.

So I'm curious to see what your outlook would be on the possibility of the US introducing a VAT. Personally, I think that US progressives would lose their ----.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-24 12:11 AM | Reply

"He did better in states where there were undemocratic caucuses rather than actual votes."

I'd love for you to walk into a caucus and tell people that coming together to discuss the candidates, their platforms, and the issues they are trying to solve before making a decision is somehow undemocratic. If anything caucuses are even more democratic.

#63 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-24 08:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So go live somewhere where there aren't any taxes or the benefits of a society that uses taxes for the greater good.
Be sure to take all your gold with you, I'm sure you'll be able to hold on to it with no problems whatsoever.
#61 | POSTED BY JPW

Gold is on ongoing bet that taxes ARE destroying this country. The climax comes in the 2020s.

So you and your socialist buddies can go right ahead and keep believing in that fairy tale.

#64 | Posted by Ray at 2019-10-24 08:18 AM | Reply

"Gold is on ongoing bet that taxes ARE destroying this country. The climax comes in the 2020s."

I've been posting here for a very long time and Ray has been posting the same garbage the entire time.

#65 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-24 09:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So I'm curious to see what your outlook would be on the possibility of the US introducing a VAT. Personally, I think that US progressives would lose their ----."

I've been saying we should enact VATs just like our competitors for years.

#66 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-24 09:45 AM | Reply

"I don't think that Warren would have a great chance against Trump, but if Bernie is the nominee, Trump may as well go on vacation until the election. The Dems will have handed him a cheap and easy victory."

I think you are completely wrong. The weakest candidate we could nominate is Joe Biden. His son's $50,000 per month stinks to high heaven, legal or not, it still stinks and Trump will paint Joe as complicit with corruption no matter how loudly Democrats try to defend Joe. Joe also has a terrible history legislatively, ask your Millenial children what they think about his bankruptcy laws prohibiting discharge of student loans in bankruptcy then point at Joe and tell them he is responsible for that. Good luck electing the Senator owned by banks and insurance companies. Republicans aren't unloading on him yet because they want him to be the nominee. He represents nothing for progressives so why does anyone thing we would enthusiastically support him?

#67 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-24 09:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"He represents nothing for progressives so why does anyone thing we would enthusiastically support him?"

Because he has the Obama seal of approval and currently owns the black vote. You'll get your marching orders shortly.

#68 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-24 10:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If the Black vote doesn't move, I'll be 100% behind Biden. I'll vote whatever way I can to make damn sure that Trump isn't elected, and to send a message to the GOP. Period.

#69 | Posted by YAV at 2019-10-24 10:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If Biden wins the nomination, I see this as a repeat of 2016. And we're all screwed because Biden has no pragmatic solutions to the Worlds problems.

#70 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-10-24 12:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And we're all screwed because Biden has no pragmatic solutions to the Worlds problems."

"Nothing will fundamentally change."
- Joe Biden

#71 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-24 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- If anything caucuses are even more democratic.

Many liberals would beg to disagree....

www.google.com

#72 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-24 12:29 PM | Reply

The differences between Biden and Bernie or Warren pales compared to the differences between any of them and Trump.

All progressives should be able to agree to support the Dem candidate, whomever that may be, against Trump.

If not, then apparently they have other priorities than their country.

#73 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-24 12:33 PM | Reply

"The differences between Biden and Bernie or Warren pales compared to the differences between any of them and Trump."

Then why bother have a primary at all? Just let the candidate be chosen in a back room and stop wasting hundreds of millions of donor money that can better be spent on the general.

#74 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-24 12:44 PM | Reply

"All progressives should be able to agree to support the Dem candidate, whomever that may be, against Trump."

Not a fan of Biden but I will support whoever the Democratic nominee is.

#75 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-24 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If anything caucuses are even more democratic.

That's an insane argument. Caucuses generally have no early or absentee voting, require you to be in a particular place at a particular hour, and require you to spend hours at this place just to cast your vote. This disenfranchises many of the elderly, disabled, students, military, working class, parents, etc.

#76 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The differences between Biden and Bernie or Warren pales compared to the differences between any of them and Trump.

So?

Trump isn't in the Democratic primary. Very few people are saying they won't begrudgingly vote for Biden if he's the eventual nominee. The point is that many think there are candidates with both a better chance at beating Trump and better ideas for this country.

#77 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 12:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Caucuses generally have no early or absentee voting, require you to be in a particular place at a particular hour, and require you to spend hours at this place just to cast your vote. This disenfranchises many of the elderly, disabled, students, military, working class, parents, etc."

I think that's a separate issue that can largely, but not completely, be addressed by making election day a national holiday. My main point was the idea that coming together to discuss the issues and the candidates is in itself undemocratic. That's kind of the definition of democracy.

#78 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-24 12:55 PM | Reply

that's a separate issue that can largely, but not completely, be addressed by making election day a national holiday.

But that's not actually happening anytime soon, so the severely undemocratic flaws with a caucus system remain.

#79 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 01:02 PM | Reply

"Caucuses generally have no early or absentee voting, require you to be in a particular place at a particular hour, and require you to spend hours at this place just to cast your vote. This disenfranchises many of the elderly, disabled, students, military, working class, parents, etc."
I think that's a separate issue that can largely, but not completely, be addressed by making election day a national holiday. My main point was the idea that coming together to discuss the issues and the candidates is in itself undemocratic. That's kind of the definition of democracy.
#78 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-24 12:55 PM |

You're aware that caucuses are -long- over before election day, and making the election day a national holiday will have absolutely not effect whatsoever on whether or not caucuses are more or less democratic than straight voting?

#80 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-10-24 01:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

- Then why bother have a primary at all?

When people decide to sit on their hands or vote for Jill Stein if their fav candidate loses in a landslide, then it sounds like they would actually prefer a back room pick than not getting their way.

- Very few people are saying they won't begrudgingly vote for Biden if he's the eventual nominee.

Laura begs to differ. As to all the other people who differed last time.

Lots of people still think that "the parties are the same", even after Trump.

My first post on this thread said that I'd rather see Warren or Bernie as Pres, but, according to the polls like the one in this thread article, it appears that Biden may have the advantage of taking both progressive and moderate to conservative Dem votes.

And if he does, he's much better than Trump pretty obviously. But still, some of the Pure Left among us will hold out for their fav or take their vote and go home and feel like that if people are not smart enough ( as smart as them ) to support their candidate, then they deserve to get Trump again.

Of course, most people who feel that way aren't the ones who will continue to be crushed financially by
GOP policy.

#81 | Posted by Corky at 2019-10-24 01:40 PM | Reply

#80 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

I think he is referring to any election day, not just the Federal.

I think its a good idea myself.

Lots of people still think that "the parties are the same", even after Trump.

Trump isn't the GOP .... Laura knows this too, Trump is an outlier and everyone but partisan hacks know it.

And if he does, he's much better than Trump pretty obviously.

Better how? People won't come out to vote for him and his "if you like your plan you can keep your plan" rhetoric.
www.politifact.com

He should reframe it ... more like TheLilMayors pitch.

#82 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-24 01:49 PM | Reply

If the Black vote doesn't move, I'll be 100% behind Biden. I'll vote whatever way I can to make damn sure that Trump isn't elected, and to send a message to the GOP. Period.

#69 | Posted by YAV

Hillary had the black vote. What good did it do? Don't support the nominee with the black vote. Support the nominee with swing state support. Dems cant win the southern states in the general no matter what, so ignore who southern state dems want the nominee to be.

#83 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

83

Woah!!!! you nailed it. I'm actually going to flag it NW

#84 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-24 02:05 PM | Reply

I think he is referring to any election day, not just the Federal.
I think its a good idea myself. - #82 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-10-24 01:49 PM

The primary races are still LONG before any election day. Unless you're thinking that the primary itself is going to be made a national holiday.
Each primary for every party resulting in a national holiday? For each of the 50 states? Remember, political parties mean absolutely nothing to our government...
I think that you are being generous in your esitmation of the referral, but as an employee of the federal government I think I might be able to get behind 200 national holidays a year.

#85 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-10-24 02:05 PM | Reply

Hillary had the black vote. What good did it do?

That's fine.
She lost in 3 states, and we can debate why - after you tell me how the Democrats are going to win without the Black vote.
Show me the demographics. I'm open to changing my mind.

#86 | Posted by YAV at 2019-10-24 02:14 PM | Reply

Apparently the best way for Joe to increase his poll #s is to stay out of public and let the DNC machine win him the nomination.

My bet, if Joe is the nominee, he's gonna fail harder than Hillary and Trump sails into 2020.

Joe reminds me of a less likable John Kerry. This will be 2004 all over again.

#87 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-24 02:24 PM | Reply

tell me how the Democrats are going to win without the Black vote.

#86 | Posted by YAV

I already did. By winning the swing states. In this messed up electoral system, they're all that matters.

The black vote is mostly in the south. You think dems have any chance of beating trump in South carolina? Alabama? Mississippi? Georgia? Why should we pick a candidate to win votes in red states instead of picking a candidate to win votes in the states that matter?

#88 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 02:24 PM | Reply

www.washingtonpost.com

Look at the graph. Look at the 3 states hillary lost that made a difference:
Wisconsin: Black vote down by 12.3%
Michigan:Black vote down by 12.4%
Pennsylvania: Black vote down by 2.1 (this one is an interesting case in your favor)

"if groups(Blacks and Latinos) had gone to the polls at the same rates as in 2012, Clinton would likely have won Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin in 2016"

www.axios.com
slate.com

it goes on and on. There's tons of analysis out there. I don't see evidence for your argument, though, Speaks.

#89 | Posted by YAV at 2019-10-24 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#88 As much as I generally agree with that argument, Hillary won the primaries in Ohio and Pennsylvania, so unless we're going to write those states off as "the South" i think we need to acknowledge that they're going to lean more centrist than places like WI and MI.

#90 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 02:38 PM | Reply

Wisconsin: Black vote down by 12.3%
Michigan:Black vote down by 12.4%
Pennsylvania: Black vote down by 2.1 (this one is an interesting case in your favor)

it goes on and on. There's tons of analysis out there. I don't see evidence for your argument, though, Speaks.

#89 | Posted by YAV

Black vote is going to be down until we run another black man like barack obama. We dont have one of those right now so choosing our candidate in an effort to recreate the obama turnout is a fools errand. We need to find out how to make up the difference instead of thinking we can recapture lighting in a bottle.

Obama got people who usually dont vote (mostly in the black community) to come out and vote for the dem.
Since we dont have an obama, what's another way we can get people who usually dont vote to come out and vote for the dem? By offering them a status quo candidate who says nothing needs to change and lets go back to 2015? Or by offering them something who really seems like they'll fight the corruption and try something new?

#91 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 02:43 PM | Reply

--Not a fan of Biden but I will support whoever the Democratic nominee is.

I'll never desert Mr. Micawber!

#92 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-24 02:45 PM | Reply

-Mr. Micawber

Last week I was driving in Western Kansas and listening to the only talk radio you can get then.....and Biden was referred to as "QuidProJoe" and "Plugs Biden".

#93 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-24 02:50 PM | Reply

Last week I was driving in Western Kansas and listening to the only talk radio you can get then.....and Biden was referred to as "QuidProJoe" and "Plugs Biden".

#93 | Posted by eberly

Nothing better than trump supporters joking about trump's OPPONENT'S hair procedures.

While they're at it they should whine that trump's OPPONENT'S kids are benefiting from their father's office.

#94 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#94

Speak,

You are knocking them out of the park left and right.

Well done sir.

#95 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-24 02:54 PM | Reply

I just don't believe Biden will be the nominee. I know it 'could' happen. I just don't see it though. If it is going to be a moderate, someone such as Klobuchar seems more palatable to the further left liberal base.

#96 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-10-24 03:01 PM | Reply

--Nothing better than trump supporters joking about trump's OPPONENT'S hair procedures.

You people have been obsessing over the "Combover quisling" for years, hypocrite.

#97 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-24 03:01 PM | Reply

--Nothing better than trump supporters joking about trump's OPPONENT'S hair procedures.

You people have been obsessing over the "Combover quisling" for years, hypocrite.

#97 | Posted by nullifidian

Did you see what I was responding to dum dum? Right wing talk show hosts mocking biden's hair transplant.

#98 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 03:05 PM | Reply

I just don't believe Biden will be the nominee. I know it 'could' happen. I just don't see it though.

You need to get serious. Biden leads just about every poll. Something crazy would need to happen for him to NOT be the nominee.

#99 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 03:08 PM | Reply

I doubt very much that after 2016 that Warren voters who were HRC supporters would go to Sanders. I have always thought Sanders had a ceiling of his hardcore base. The anti-HRC vote that weakly supported him in 2016 now has other places to go, also Progressive Democrats who want to vote for a Democrat are supporting Warren. If she drops out, I think most of her voters go to Biden or anybody but Bernie. I personally dislike Bernie and will do all I can to make sure he doesn't get the nomination. I would hold my nose and vote for him against any GOP -------, but that's the ONLY case where he gets my vote.

#100 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2019-10-24 03:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Biden's lead is solely predicated on his popularity with black voters all over America. But so was Hillary's at this point in 2007 even though Obama was running. Iowa changed everything, and it may very well do it again.

There aren't many blacks in Iowa and I wouldn't be surprised if Biden finishes 4th. I just don't see energized non-frontrunner voters picking Biden as their second choice which is going to hurt him after the initial round of caucusing are over.

New Hampshire is in both Warren's and Sander's backyard, so Biden isn't likely to win there either. That means going into South Carolina, Biden is probably 0-2. If anyone articulates a better message to the black community during this period, many ears will be listening.

I agree with Moder8 not because I'm a hater or lover of anyone, it's solely because I look forward while keeping an eye on the past. National polls are meaningless when primaries are fragmented and spread out over 6 months. In my state, we don't vote until May and the likelihood of the nomination being sealed are better than 50-50. I definitely won't have more than 2 viable candidates to choose from if that so what good is my choice today under those circumstances?

In the end there is a reason why Biden has never won a Democratic nomination and those realities are likely to doom him again, imo.

#101 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-10-24 03:40 PM | Reply

"I think you are completely wrong. The weakest candidate we could nominate is Joe Biden. His son's $50,000 per month stinks to high heaven, legal or not, it still stinks and Trump will paint Joe as complicit with corruption no matter how loudly Democrats try to defend Joe."

I agree that Biden is going to face criticism...but not from Trump. Because Trump really can't go after an opponent for doing things that he, himself, or his family has done.

Personally, I think that Warren has run the best campaign. She seems to have appealed to enough on the left to capture the enthusiasm of that bloc, but has not tethered herself to the far left in the way that Bernie has. In fact, him referring to her as a capitalist almost certainly works in her favor for the vast majority of voters. If she were to be the nominee, she still has plenty of wiggle room to get back to the center in front of the general election.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-24 03:42 PM | Reply

Trump really can't go after an opponent for doing things that he, himself, or his family has done.

I think you dramatically underestimate Trump's lack of shame and his ability to manipulate media coverage. He absolutely will criticize people for things he himself has done, and it will work to some degree.

#103 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 03:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Because Trump really can't go after an opponent for doing things that he, himself, or his family has done.

#102 | Posted by madbomber

Hahah NO PUPPET! YOURE THE PUPPET!

#104 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 03:50 PM | Reply

Criticizing his opponent for things trump has done is trump's whole strategy in life.

#105 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 03:50 PM | Reply

-Nothing better than trump supporters joking about trump's OPPONENT'S hair procedures.

what are you crying about?

#106 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-24 03:52 PM | Reply

Klobuchar seems more palatable

Not to the heterosexual male community...

#107 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-10-24 03:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Appears the the socialists are not getting the traction they thought they would.

#108 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-10-24 04:34 PM | Reply

-Nothing better than trump supporters joking about trump's OPPONENT'S hair procedures.

what are you crying about?

#106 | Posted by eberly

Can't you read?

#109 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 05:47 PM | Reply

Appears the the socialists are not getting the traction they thought they would.

#108 | Posted by MSgt

Like the one in the white house who's redistributing your money to billionaires for tax cuts and farmers who are being hurt by his trade war?

#110 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 05:48 PM | Reply

yes

#111 | Posted by eberly at 2019-10-24 05:48 PM | Reply

"I've been posting here for a very long time and Ray has been posting the same garbage the entire time." - #65 | Posted by danni at 2019-10-24 09:44 AM

"Ray is like the worry-wart child who predicted the murder of his parents and now wants them dead just to prove his worries were credible." - mOntecOre

#112 | Posted by Hans at 2019-10-24 06:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In the end there is a reason why Biden has never won a Democratic nomination and those realities are likely to doom him again, imo.
#101 | Posted by tonyroma

Interestingly, you can say the same of all the 2020 Democrat candidates.

Sounds like a great case to dredge up Hillary.

#113 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2019-10-24 07:12 PM | Reply

Biden Warren is my electable ticket.
Women will vote the ticket favorably.

#114 | Posted by Docman at 2019-10-24 07:14 PM | Reply

Bernie's scorched earth tactics made him gross. Now that he's likely to drop dead at any second, what's the point of voting for that corpse? Go Warren, or go Biden if voting for a woman is emasculating to you (as PinchALoaf says it is).

#115 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-10-24 08:02 PM | Reply

Bernie's scorched earth tactics made him gross. Now that he's likely to drop dead at any second, what's the point of voting for that corpse? Go Warren, or go Biden if voting for a woman is emasculating to you (as PinchALoaf says it is).

#115 | Posted by BruceBanner

Yeah "scorched earth tactics" like telling his supporters to vote for hillary?

Unless you mean pointing out that she was a status quo corporate sellout during the primary was "scorched earth tactics" in which case any time a candidate points out the differences between them and their opponent it would be "scorched earth tactics"

#116 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 08:09 PM | Reply

Interestingly, you can say the same of all the 2020 Democrat candidates.

Considering more than half of them haven't run for president before, no, you really can't.

#117 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 08:34 PM | Reply

"There aren't many blacks in Iowa and I wouldn't be surprised if Biden finishes 4th."

"New Hampshire is in both Warren's and Sander's backyard, so Biden isn't likely to win there either."

RCP average has Biden in a solid second place to Warren's lead in both of those states. Sanders doesn't come close to either of them. Another awkward moment like the one she had in the last debate could cause Warren to slip, especially if she doesn't seem ready for the type of comments Trump would make.

#118 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-10-24 09:01 PM | Reply

"Gold is on ongoing bet that taxes ARE destroying this country. The climax comes in the 2020s."

Blah, blah, blah; a decade ago you claimed the downfall would be in the 2010s. In the interim, gold has gone down in value while paying NO dividends, while the S&P is up 143%.

Now you're the loon decrying vaccines and urging vitamins in lieu of cancer treatments.

#119 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-10-24 09:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think you dramatically underestimate Trump's lack of shame and his ability to manipulate media coverage. He absolutely will criticize people for things he himself has done, and it will work to some degree."

I thought about that, and I agree in part. It seems clear that there is nothing Trump could do that would isolate his core supporters. I think that he could literally adopt all of Bernie Sander's key issues, and his supporters would nod their heads in agreement, provided it was coming from him.

The independents and undecided voters I think would be another matter. Maybe I'm just too hopeful.

#120 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-24 09:14 PM | Reply

#114

I think you make a very good point. It seems that most of us forget that there are two candidates on every ticket, and choosing the right VP could be a strong force multiplier.

#121 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-24 09:16 PM | Reply

I think that he could literally adopt all of Bernie Sander's key issues, and his supporters would nod their heads in agreement, provided it was coming from him.

#120 | Posted by madbomber

That's exactly it. His cult doesn't care what he does, as long as he HATES who they HATE.

The only thing that could make them turn on him is if he starts being nice to immigrants and democrats.

#122 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-24 09:18 PM | Reply

My first post on this thread said that I'd rather see Warren or Bernie as Pres, but, according to the polls like the one in this thread article, it appears that Biden may have the advantage of taking both progressive and moderate to conservative Dem votes.

#81 | Posted by Corky

Not a single Primary has gone off yet. And a
Quinnipiac poll has Warren ahead by 7 points today. I think we should hold our powder for a while.

#123 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-10-24 09:40 PM | Reply

"The only thing that could make them turn on him is if he starts being nice to immigrants and democrats."

I think that for many of his supporters, he can do no wrong. All he would have to do is refer to them as very fine people, and that would be that.

#124 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-24 09:40 PM | Reply

It seems that most of us forget that there are two candidates on every ticket, and choosing the right VP could be a strong force multiplier.

John McCain learned that.

#125 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-10-24 09:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

especially if she doesn't seem ready for the type of comments Trump would make.

#118 | Posted by sentinel

That's my biggest worry. She didn't deal well with the attacks on her and the Colbert confrontation, which are nothing compared to what she'll be hit with in the general if she's the nominee.

What kind of idiots are running her campaign that aren't seeing these sorts of issues before they smack her in the face?

#126 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-24 10:19 PM | Reply

#126

Whomever the Dems choose to take on Trump is going to need to know how to fight in a way that appeals to the lowbrow voters without isolating the thinkers.

I don't know that this person exists.

#127 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-10-24 10:39 PM | Reply

Maybe.

I think not looking like a deer in the headlights and not reacting like Trump wants is enough.

Nobody will be able to get down in the mud like Trump can, so there's no real reason to try.

One can, however, not let him get under their skin. That's about all you can do and will likely not bode well for Trump who only knows how to fight that kind of fight.

#128 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-24 10:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

She didn't deal well with the attacks on her and the Colbert confrontation

Let's not forget she was also stupid enough to take a DNA test and then publish the results even though they played into Trump's position.

This makes her look like a political moron and i'm shocked she's made it this far.

#129 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-24 11:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#125

Beat me to it.

#130 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-25 12:21 AM | Reply

#128

Well said, keep it up.

#131 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-10-25 12:21 AM | Reply

#125. Hillary could have learned also.
In my mind, her Tim Kaine VP selection was her fatal flaw.
Millions of Bernie voters lost interest and skipped the general election.

#132 | Posted by Docman at 2019-10-25 05:00 AM | Reply

Bernie-Pete is a pretty okay ticket.

#133 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-10-25 08:59 AM | Reply

#133 I really can't see Bernie settling for a centrist VP like Pete when he doesn't bring any sort of diversity to the table (white male). If Bernie chose a centrist for VP it would absolutely have to be a woman, racial minority or both.

#134 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-25 11:09 AM | Reply

If Bernie chose a centrist for VP it would absolutely have to be a woman, racial minority or both.

Yup. Is there somebody who's qualified and fits that bill but isn't already in the race? I don't see Harris being a good choice for that as she's already giving an taking shots.

#135 | Posted by jpw at 2019-10-25 11:17 AM | Reply

#135 Senator Tammy Duckworth from IL would be an interesting choice (progressive asian war vet who lost her legs in Iraq, pulls no punches on Trump).

#136 | Posted by JOE at 2019-10-25 11:36 AM | Reply

#133 I really can't see Bernie settling for a centrist VP like Pete when he doesn't bring any sort of diversity to the table (white male). If Bernie chose a centrist for VP it would absolutely have to be a woman, racial minority or both.

#134 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-10-25 11:09 AM | REPLY

lol that was supposed to be Biden-Pete, not Bernie-Pete. Bernie is the best of the two worst Dem candidates.

#137 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-10-25 11:39 AM | Reply

What about that big lard barge from Georgia? She checks off two identity-politics boxes.

#138 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-25 11:42 AM | Reply

Bernie is the best of the two worst Dem candidates.

#137 | Posted by sitzkrieg

YOu mean he's the best of the ones that scare you the most.

Steve Bannon himself said that if the left ever embraces populism the republicans are toast.

#139 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 01:14 PM | Reply

What about that big lard barge from Georgia? She checks off two identity-politics boxes.

#138 | Posted by nullifidian

Since when do you have a problem with big lard barges? You spend all day every day defending the one you voted for.

#140 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 01:14 PM | Reply

IN A RELATED STORY:

Biden is now calling all plutocrats willing to pay to control his presidency!

www.politico.com

Biden flips stance on super PAC help amid cash struggles
The former vice president's campaign is now open to getting help from a big-money outside group.

#141 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 01:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The former vice president's campaign is now open to getting help from a big-money outside group."

"Nothing will fundamentally change."

- Joe Biden

#142 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-10-25 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The former vice president's campaign is now open to getting help from a big-money outside group."

It sucks that candidates have to do this, but it's a pragmatic move that any eventual nominee would have to do. The alternative is pissing into the wind and losing to Trump.

#143 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-10-25 02:54 PM | Reply

The alternative is pissing into the wind and losing to Trump.

#143 | Posted by sentinel

No the alternative is saying to the nation - I'm not going to sell you out to billionaires and corporations so I need your donations.

The "you have to sellout to win" strategy wont work for dems anymore. They can be the party of the people and win or they can be republican-lite and lose like hillary.

#144 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 03:21 PM | Reply

I have a friend who donated to Sander's campaign in the past. Now he's being constantly spammed with emails asking him for more small donations on a daily basis. Most voters know this is a scam and don't give a crap where politicians get their money from, whether it's corporations or unions or saps actually gullible enough to believe what a politician tells them.

#145 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-10-25 04:23 PM | Reply

I have a friend who donated to Sander's campaign in the past. Now he's being constantly spammed with emails asking him for more small donations on a daily basis. Most voters know this is a scam and don't give a crap where politicians get their money from, whether it's corporations or unions or saps actually gullible enough to believe what a politician tells them.

#145 | Posted by sentinel

Hate to tell you but that happens whenever you give money to anything. So I guess EVERYTHING is a scam.

Politicians work to please whoever funds them. You want to be ruled by politicians who are funded by bankers or bus drivers?

#146 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 04:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Hate to tell you but that happens whenever you give money to anything."

Nope. Usually they follow up once or twice to ask if you'd like to donate again and then leave you alone if you decline.

"Politicians work to please whoever funds them."

By obnoxiously spamming and hounding them for more money?

"You want to be ruled by politicians who are funded by bankers or bus drivers?"

Neither. But I want and what you may want is irrelevant to how the system works. You can want in one hand and trump in the other; see which one fills up first.

#147 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-10-25 05:46 PM | Reply

Politicians work to please whoever funds them. You want to be ruled by politicians who are funded by bankers or bus drivers?

Posted by SpeakSoftly

When politicians start wearing NASCAR driver style uniforms with sponsors' logos stitched onto their clothing we will have a good laugh whenever they open their mouths.

#148 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2019-10-25 05:53 PM | Reply

Neither. But I want and what you may want is irrelevant to how the system works. You can want in one hand and trump in the other; see which one fills up first.

#147 | Posted by sentinel

It's always sad to see someone buying the billionaires' propaganda that you have to sell out to them to win.

#149 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 06:07 PM | Reply

When politicians start wearing NASCAR driver style uniforms with sponsors' logos stitched onto their clothing we will have a good laugh whenever they open their mouths.

#148 | Posted by DixvilleNotch

Your entire cult would be dressed in russian flags.

#150 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 06:08 PM | Reply

Your cult would be wearing Mao jackets and waving the Little Red Book.

#151 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-10-25 06:15 PM | Reply

Your cult would be wearing Mao jackets and waving the Little Red Book.

#151 | Posted by nullifidian

Russian puppet supporter too stupid to see the irony in calling others communist

#152 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-10-25 06:46 PM | Reply

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