Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, November 06, 2019

A Boeing whistleblower has claimed that passengers flying on board the company's 787 Dreamliner could be left without life-saving oxygen if the cabin were to suffer a sudden decompression.

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That's disturbing. 787 is nice ride. Hope the 02 is biased to Biz Class.

#1 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-11-05 08:56 PM | Reply

Why Boeing would jeopardize their premier standing as the USA/west premier civilian aircraft company is beyond me.

Before the 737 max they were golden.

Were short term profits really more important than the company's reputation?

#2 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-11-05 11:25 PM | Reply

No airliner manufacturer is golden. They're one stretch of bad press from failure at all times. It's the nature of the airliner business, even for carriers. With EAL 401 the media ran wild with cover-up stories, but in reality the flight crew never saw the Auto-Pilot disconnect and had simply stopped flying the plane. There's even 2 made for TV movies about it.

There's even a Michael Crichton novel about the phenomenon called Airframe.

#3 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 08:23 AM | Reply

and just as a reminder, both flights had major pilot errors that crashed the -MAX planes. The first failed a mandatory memory item, the second flew into an overspeed condition and locked up their own controls.

#4 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 08:24 AM | Reply

So, is the FAA going to check out his claims?

#5 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-06 09:50 AM | Reply

The FAA signed off the airworthiness certificates for each airframe after testing, which includes the pressurization system.

#6 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 10:15 AM | Reply

#2 | Posted by fresno500

Why? Effectively DEREGULATION but in truth a passing of regulation responsibilities to the manufacturer. Companies WILL compromise safety for profits unless regulations force them to do otherwise. If the era of the "hands off" and "self policing" approach at the FAA hasn't reminded everyone of that at this point you either have your head buried in the sand or are willfully ignorant of the truth.

The willful irresponsibility shown by Boeing execs in the 737 Max issues and the apparent reasons why should put a spot light on why regulations and enforcement is 100% necessary for anyone who thinks we have excessive regulation today. Personally I think execs belong in jail for those crashes.

#7 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-11-06 10:37 AM | Reply

I just think whoever is in charge made poor decisions. After all I even think they are part of the dow.

Delay it a year. You have a guaranteed market!

Why cut corners? You got (had) it.

#8 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-11-06 12:19 PM | Reply

"The FAA signed off the airworthiness certificates for each airframe after testing, which includes the pressurization system."

But, in light of the whistleblower's statements shouldn't they go back and reexamine the issue he reported?

#9 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-06 12:34 PM | Reply

both flights had major pilot errors that crashed the -MAX planes. The first failed a mandatory memory item, the second flew into an overspeed condition and locked up their own controls.

Neithwr of which would have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of people in a traditional 737, which leaves at least some of the blame with the MAX and regulators.

#10 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-06 12:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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"both flights had major pilot errors that crashed the -MAX planes."

Yeah, the pilots erred in thinking they were flying a 737 that would behave like the 737 for which they had been trained.

Boeing tricked them, and, apparently, you too.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-06 01:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#11 | Posted by snoofy

And that is the biggest point. As time goes on and the investigation continues it comes up earlier and earlier they knew there were problems.

#12 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-11-06 01:17 PM | Reply

#11 | Posted by snoofy

To add they promised no pilot additional training would be necessary for the MAX planes. Stupid thing to promise and cover up things to stick to.

#13 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-11-06 01:18 PM | Reply

It's honestly shocking to me that Boeing would screw up this hard.

I did a contract gig there to replace batteries in Dell laptops, back when laptop batteries catching fire was a big thing. I also did the same work at Microsoft. You remove the battery, check the serial number, and if it's on the naughty list, you capture and replace the battery.

At Microsoft, they basically just told us what to do, and let us do it.

At Boeing, they literally gave us a flowchart which went through every step of the process.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-06 01:24 PM | Reply

But, in light of the whistleblower's statements shouldn't they go back and reexamine the issue he reported?

#9 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2019-11-06 12:34 PM | REPLY

They inspect the aircraft after the faulty units have been replaced prior to the airframe being certified. I don't believe all of the A&Ps are that incompetent and passing failed systems.

#15 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 05:25 PM | Reply

Yeah, the pilots erred in thinking they were flying a 737 that would behave like the 737 for which they had been trained.

#11 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-11-06 01:06 PM | FLAG:

Stab runaway is a 737 captain & co-pilot memory item they train for. It has multiple causes and the same solution. The second flight over-sped themselves. There's clearly visible indicators that is happening, along with audio warnings.

It reminds me of a maintenance failure that happened on an Airbus once upon a time. A ground crew washing the aircraft taped over the pitot tube with clear tape, and the pilots missed it during the inspection. Everybody eventually died because the pilots refused to hand fly the airplane and kept trying to use the AP which was getting bad sensor readings.

That said, I'm not that big of a fan of flight assists. I was shopping for subsystems for a Van's build today. One item is a simple piece of electronics that automatically matches elevator trim to flaps. When you drop flaps, the nose goes down, you trim it back up. This handles all that for you. I passed on it. I'll probably opt for mechanic trim wheels. I'd rather deal with a cable break than a servo that decides to flutter.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 05:32 PM | Reply

"Stab runaway is a 737 captain & co-pilot memory item they train for."

Right but the scenario comes about differently and unexpectedly due to the massive secret software changes.

None of the other 737s fly like the MAX does. The pilots didn't do that. Boeing changed the way the plane flies.

Boeing lied to themselves, the pilots, and the FAA.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-06 05:56 PM | Reply

Were short term profits really more important than the company's reputation?

#2 | POSTED BY FRESNO500

Companies aren't people. People are in charge.

The question should be:
Were short term profits for themselves really more important to a few people in charge than the risk to the company's reputation?

Follow Up:
Why wouldn't they be?

#18 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-11-06 05:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Re #16 - what RV are you building?

#19 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2019-11-06 06:24 PM | Reply

Right but the scenario comes about differently

#17 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-11-06 05:56 PM | REPLY

Doesn't matter. You intentionally miss that point. A runaway stab is a runaway stab. There's only 1 solution.

Unfortunately it doesn't involve corporate malfeasance for you to wrap your brain around it.

#20 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 08:03 PM | Reply

Re #16 - what RV are you building?

#19 | POSTED BY HEEHAW AT 2019-11-06 06:24 PM | FLAG:

-14A. Every QB option. It was that our a Velocity SE FG but aluminum is a lot cleaner to work with than epoxy.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 08:04 PM | Reply

Projecting around 800 hours to build, 90k in it, around $60/hr to operate as long as its mostly cross country cruises.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-06 08:08 PM | Reply

In the unlikely event of sudden decompression, I'll breathe market forces.

#23 | Posted by LesWit at 2019-11-06 09:13 PM | Reply

"A runaway stab is a runaway stab."

You're saying it's okay that this aircraft has new ways to fly itself into situations that will result in catastrophic failure unless manually corrected, and that it's okay that flight crews weren't notified of that danger.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-06 09:19 PM | Reply

Sounds like a cool project. Long ago, our A&P school had an unfinished Quickie donated to it. I learned then I'd much rather work with aluminum, too. Friend of mine has an RV 8 - it's a fun ride.

#25 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2019-11-06 10:00 PM | Reply

You're saying

#24 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-11-06 09:19 PM | REPLY

Pilot error and improper maintenance were major factors in both crashes. It's stupid to not have redundant sensors and Boeing is negligent on that.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-07 08:25 AM | Reply

For the top 3 deadliest Indonesian crashes, 8501 was an A320 with a rudder travel limiter failure. The crew made the problem worse, and crashed the plane. The next was a 737-2something, the 7000 hour 737 captain failed to put the aircraft in take off config before taking off, it crashed seconds after leaving the ground and everybody died. That leaves Lion Air 610, where the pilots with a combined 9000 737 hours crashed after failing a mandatory memory item that solves the problem they had which has many potential sources but only 1 simply fix.

At least it's safer than driving!

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-11-07 08:40 AM | Reply

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