Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, November 09, 2019

Interview with Steve Schmidt: "I think what's missing from the coverage in the middle of all of the chaos that Trump produces, and the daily drama that emanates from this White House, is the degree to which Trump has been an extremely consequential president. There is an argument to be made that he is the most consequential president since FDR, because he is systematically unraveling, at an extremely fast pace, the U.S.-led global order that was architected by FDR, built by Harry Truman, and maintained from Eisenhower through Obama. And everywhere around the world, all of the countries and all of the groups that we don't want to see winning on the field of geopolitics -- Iran, Hezbollah, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Russia, Turkey -- are advancing while American interests are retreating."

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And everywhere around the world, all of the countries and all of the groups that we don't want to see winning on the field of geopolitics -- Iran, Hezbollah, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Russia, Turkey -- are advancing while American interests are retreating."

America funds ISIS ...

Stop Arming Terrorists Act
en.wikipedia.org

The Stop Arming Terrorists Act is a proposed Act of Congress that was originally sponsored by United States Representative for Hawaii's 2nd congressional district Tulsi Gabbard and United States Senator for Kentucky Rand Paul in early 2017 ...

to prohibit the use of United States Government funds to provide assistance to Al Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and to countries supporting those organizations, and for other purposes.

As November 2017, 14 other lawmakers out of 435 United States House of Representatives have co-sponsored Gabbard's House bill. Paul's Senate version of the bill, on the other hand, has zero cosponsors.


It says everything that this bill went nowhere. Why? Because of the insidious corporate grip that the Military-Industrial-Complex has on all aspects of American life -- from media to culture to government, just as Eisenhower tried to warn us about.

Also, I used to think highly of Steve Schmidt because he was willing to criticize Republicans, but eh, he's just another corporate hack. www.vanityfair.com

#1 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-09 01:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Trump: I bet I can get liberals to defend joining the army and going to war.
Mattis: No way.
Trump: Hold my beer, while I win the election.

#2 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-09 01:59 PM | Reply

"Also, I used to think highly of Steve Schmidt..."

What you think about Steve Schmidt is not the point here...nor is it relevant.

#3 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-09 02:06 PM | Reply

What you think about Steve Schmidt is not the point here...nor is it relevant.

Then why is it in the title?

Besides, who cares who SteveSchmidt is anyway.

#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-09 02:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

@#2

It is quite interesting that you apparently need to make up scenarios in failed attempts to support Pres Trump.

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 02:18 PM | Reply

"he is systematically unraveling, at an extremely fast pace, the U.S.-led global order that was architected by FDR, built by Harry Truman, and maintained from Eisenhower through Obama."

It's strange how so many Trumpers are veterans and fought to maintain the hegemony, but now they want America to stand down.

I don't get it.

Was your time spent in the military a bad thing for the world?

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-09 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#5 ... Was your time spent in the military a bad thing for the world? ...

It is beginning to look like 'supporting the tribal leader' instead of supporting the Country.

The Trump supporters I've talked with, and those I see interviewed, all pretty much say that they will support Pres Trump no matter what he does.

Pres Trump demands such loyalty. L'etat C'est Moi.

So, as Pres Trump systematically (or chaotically) dismantles the democratic world order and empowers the dictators of the world, your question is a good one to ask.

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 02:36 PM | Reply

--So, as Pres Trump systematically (or chaotically) dismantles the democratic world order

You mean the corporate-globalist world order that privileged, undemocratic elites have gotten fat and happy off? Yeah. Let's tear it down. Burn it to the ground and salt it.

#8 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-09 02:47 PM | Reply

@#8 ... You mean the corporate-globalist world order that privileged, undemocratic elites have gotten fat and happy off? ...

No, I meant what I said.

"...as Pres Trump systematically (or chaotically) dismantles the democratic world order and empowers the dictators of the world..."

Pres Trump could have accomplished what you assert he is trying to accomplish without dismantling democracies and empowering dictators, but he didn't.


#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 03:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#9 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Please all the hand wringing between you an Snoofy is hilarious.

I recall the same hand wringers screeeching Trump would start WWIII.

Now he' s not doing enough.

Good lord you people look ridiculous.

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-09 03:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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It's strange how so many Trumpers are veterans and fought to maintain the hegemony, but now they want America to stand down.
I don't get it.

Its even more strange how so many Leftists now want to "maintain the hegemony", after all the kicking pissing and moaning about how Iraq, and foreign interventions were wasted in the desert, causing millions of deaths. That we can't treat our injured military Veterans properly. And on and on....

Howling that the the military spending should be cut back to $0.00 to pay for more social entitlements.

I don't get it, either

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-09 03:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

I don't get it, either

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris

That's because you're an idiot, mackris.

#12 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-09 03:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#10 ... Please all the hand wringing between you an Snoofy is hilarious. ...

Why thank-you, I was going for a laugh.

... I recall the same hand wringers screeeching Trump would start WWIII. ...

Please cite where I ever said that Pres Trump would cause WWIII.

Or are you just continuing to make comments up?


#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 03:33 PM | Reply

@#11 ...I don't get it, either...

Not surprising.


#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 03:33 PM | Reply

What you think about Steve Schmidt is not the point here...nor is it relevant.

#3 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

How many cups of corn squeezins have you drunk today?

#15 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-09 03:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Andrea doesn't understand the most basic point, invading Ukraine was just a test market for invading any other part of Europe. Dumb Ass, if you were German you would recognize the threat but you're stupid so you don't. Undermining NATO is the basis idea behind it, if the U.S. isn't a reliable ally in NATO, then all of Europe is in jeopardy. I swear, so many Americans don't see the obvious threat to our world that Donald Trump is enabling. And make no mistake, Donald Trump is enabling this because Russians own him.

#16 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-09 04:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"Howling that the the military spending should be cut back to $0.00 to pay for more social entitlements."

ok, now give us a link to any prominent Democrat that ever said that liar.

You can't but you'll continue to lie and pretend anyway.

Disgusting dishonesty.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-09 04:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"if the U.S. isn't a reliable ally in NATO, then all of Europe is in jeopardy. I swear, so many Americans don't see the obvious threat to our world that Donald Trump is enabling."

The Deplorables actually like how Trump is running NATO and the rest of our foreign policy like a mob protection racket.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-09 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Its even more strange how so many Leftists now want to "maintain the hegemony", after all the kicking pissing and moaning about how Iraq, and foreign interventions were wasted in the desert"

That's because Iraq was a waste.
PNAC didn't strengthen the hegemony.
It weakened it fairly significantly.

The fact that you can't see it just shows how blind you have become.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-09 04:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

- Yeah. Let's tear it down. Burn it to the ground and salt it.

#8 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Yeah, let's make way for the next Mussolini and Hitler. Great thinking, Trumper.

Then we'll only have to stop Fascism around the world from ending up here a second time.

#20 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-09 05:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah, let's make way for the next Mussolini and Hitler. Great thinking, Trumper.

Then we'll only have to stop Fascism around the world from ending up here a second time.

#20 | POSTED BY CORKY

While Trump is a demagogue, he's too incompetent to be the next Mussolini or Hitler.

And if Democrats truely thought that Trump was dangerous they wouldn't of gave Trump an extra $200 billion in defense spending to make war, not to mention Pelosi would have Trump's tax reurns ...

Trump sucks, but spare us the Martha's Vineyard inspired Dem elite propaganda.

#21 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-09 07:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#21 | Posted by PinchALoaf

The Nulliloaf is festering.

#22 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-09 07:59 PM | Reply

@#21 ... While Trump is a demagogue, he's too incompetent to be the next Mussolini or Hitler. ...

Figurehead puppets do not need to be competent.

They merely need to be compliant.

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 08:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump: I bet I can get liberals to defend joining the army and going to war.
Mattis: No way.
Trump: Hold my beer, while I win the election.

#2 | Posted by AndreaMackris

I bet no one is dumb enough to believe a guy is going to drain the swamp while filling his white house with bankers and lobbyists.

Trump supporters: hold my beer.

#24 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-09 08:55 PM | Reply

@#21 ... spare us the Martha's Vineyard inspired Dem elite propaganda. ...

Your comments seem to be way too focused upon a niche aspect of politics to be relevant.

In other words, if you want to make or cause a change, do try to be more relevant.

Jus' sayin'...


#25 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-09 09:19 PM | Reply

Your comments seem to be way too focused upon a niche aspect of politics to be relevant.

#25 | POSTED BYLAMPLIGHTER

Republican Party = the party of the 1% = The Plutocrats

Democratic Party = the party of the 10% = The Professional Class

Withering on the Vine
thebaffler.com

WERE YOU TO DRAW A VENN DIAGRAM of Democrats, meritocrats, and plutocrats, the space where they intersect would be an island seven miles off the coast of Massachusetts called Martha's Vineyard.

Over the last few decades, this island has become the standard vacation destination for high-ranking Democratic officials.

Bill Clinton started the trend in 1993 and then proceeded to return to Martha's Vineyard every year of his presidency but two...

Barack Obama, the next Democrat to occupy the White House, mimicked Clinton in policy decisions and personnel choices, and so it made sense to do exactly as his predecessor had done when it came to selecting vacation destinations.

Obama, too, spent all his presidential holidays on Martha's Vineyard with one exception: the year he ran for reelection and needed to burnish his populist image.

Then there's the money.

What has sanctified the name of Martha's Vineyard among Democratic politicians are the countless deeds of fundraising heroism that have graced the island's manicured golf courses, its quaint hotels, and its architecturally celebrated interiors.

During the summer season, when the island's billionaires return like swallows to the fabulous secluded coastal estates they own, there are fundraisers every night of the week.

Often these are thrown for the benefit of worthy charitable causes, not politicians, but of course, it is the political fundraisers that make the headlines.

Political fundraisers for Democrats, that is.

In terms of partisanship, everyone is pretty much on the same page here.

Our Martha's Vineyard Democrats like to talk about inequality. It makes them sad, but it's also a problem they have almost no desire to tackle.


It should now be clear to you.

#26 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-09 10:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Nulliloaf is festering.

#22 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

Hey AngryPops,

See post #26 ...

You might learn something for a change.

#27 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-09 10:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You might learn something for a change.
POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2019-11-09 10:55 PM | REPLY

It doesn't get easier honey. They have blinders on. They don't see what we see. Hang in there.

#28 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-11-09 11:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

@#21 ... While Trump is a demagogue, he's too incompetent to be the next Mussolini or Hitler. ...

Figurehead puppets do not need to be competent.

They merely need to be compliant.

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 201

Mussolini was incompetent. Hitler took over Italy.

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 09:00 AM | Reply

Mussolini was incompetent. Hitler took over Italy.

#29 | POSTED BY ZED

Mussolini was in power from 1922 to 1943 -- so, you know, you're wrong.

You need to read the link of Thomas Frank's 'Martha's Vineyard' excerpt in post #26, and learn something for a change.

#30 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 09:11 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You might learn something for a change."

From you???

Unlikely.

LOL!

#31 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-10 09:45 AM | Reply

"Mussolini was in power from 1922 to 1943 -- so, you know, you're wrong"

History is replete with incompetents with great power. Our current "president" is an example.

Putin's relationship to Trump has something in common with Hitler's relationship with Mussolini, at least in the last years.

#32 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 10:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

From you???

Unlikely.

LOL!

#31 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

From Thomas Frank, moron.

Thomas Frank: Why Democrats Lose
youtu.be
[1:19:25]

Thomas Frank's Listen Liberal: Or What Ever Happened to the Party of the People, published in March of 2016, was named as one of -- 6 Books to Help Understand Trump's Win -- by the New York Times.

Frank (bestselling author of What's the Matter with Kansas? and The Wrecking Crew) made a name for himself for his scathing critiques of Republicans.

Now he turns his attention to his own party, arguing that liberals have lost sight of their goal to be a party that champions equity.

To support his claim he points out that, after years of occupying the White House, the Democrats have done little to advance traditional liberal goals: expanding opportunity, fighting for social justice, and ensuring that workers get a fair deal.

Indeed, the decline of the middle class has only accelerated.

Wall Street gets its bailouts, wages keep falling, and the free-trade deals keep coming.

In this low point for the Democratic party, Frank reminds them of their historic stance and contends that renewing those commitments is the only way to reverse the ever-deepening rift between the rich and the poor in America.


QFT

#33 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 10:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

History is replete with incompetents with great power.

Our current "president" is an example.

Putin's relationship to Trump has something in common with Hitler's relationship with Mussolini, at least in the last years.

#32 | POSTED BY ZED

Wrong

You're totally schizophrenic.

Get help ...

Mayo Clinic: Schizophrenia
www.mayoclinic.org

Schizophrenia is a serious mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally.

Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and extremely disordered thinking and behavior that impairs daily functioning, and can be disabling.

People with schizophrenia require lifelong treatment.

Early treatment may help get symptoms under control before serious complications develop and may help improve the long-term outlook.


There's no shame in seeking help.

#34 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 10:12 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're totally schizophrenic.

#34 | Posted by PinchALoaf at

World War II is an interest of mine.

Trump's physical posturing even mirrors Mussolini's.

May I suggest, politely, that you GFY.

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 10:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#35 - Pinch is citing RT programming these days, so you obviously got too close on that one.

#36 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 10:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#35 - Pinch is citing RT programming these days, so you obviously got too close on that one.

#36 | POSTED BY YAV

Corporate MSM censorship doesn't allow people like Chris Hedges (or Thomas Frank, or people like Ralph Nader and Matt Taibbi) on either network and cable news, or the NYT or WaPo -- you agreeing on that makes you more Republican than Democrat ...

So why don't you, like Corky, just save everyone the trouble and become a Republican?

Also, your lame attempt at red-baiting is hilarious -- you do understand that McCarthyism is discredited?

#37 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 10:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Trump's physical posturing even mirrors Mussolini's.

May I suggest, politely, that you GFY.

#35 | POSTED BY ZED

Two fat bloviating blowhards -- got it.

And I think you should go eff yourself -- and while you're at it, just become the Republican that you are.

#38 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 10:51 AM | Reply

Hey Pinch -

I'm a Democrat. Have been for years. You aren't. You even claim in your profile you're an Independent.

So - GFY, and don't bother with the "kindly" part.

#39 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 11:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hey Pinch -

I'm a Democrat. Have been for years. You aren't. You even claim in your profile you're an Independent.

So - GFY, and don't bother with the "kindly" part.

#39 | POSTED BY YAV

You're a Republican who thinks unfettered capitalism, globalization, and corporatism, are all winning issues -- say hi to Ronald Reagan's turkey neck for all of us this Thanksgiving.

#40 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 11:44 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#40 | Posted by PinchALoaf

The Nullification of this dimwit is almost complete.

#41 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-10 11:47 AM | Reply

The Nullification of this dimwit is almost complete.

#41 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

Wrong

You're just as Republican as Bill Clinton's list of Republican goals -- are you going to stroke the ghost of Reagan's turkey neck this upcoming Turkey Day?

#42 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 11:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You can't win any arguments here without stuffing words and positions on people that disagree with you, and then attacking them for what you assigned them. You're disingenuous, and transparent.

You've made yourself irrelevant, and made me care less and less for any of the candidates you support. If they attract people like you, no thanks. I don't need a new flavor of crazy.

#43 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 12:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#43 | Posted by YAV

Go back and read that one several more times, loaf-boy.

You might learn something for a change.

#44 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-10 12:05 PM | Reply

You can't win any arguments here without stuffing words and positions on people that disagree with you, and then attacking them for what you assigned them. You're disingenuous, and transparent.

You've made yourself irrelevant, and made me care less and less for any of the candidates you support. If they attract people like you, no thanks. I don't need a new flavor of crazy.

#43 | POSTED BY YAV

I've won already -- I side with working and middle-class Americans.

Today's Democrats are as corrupt as Republicans, and, I have all the REAL liberals and progressives on my side.

This website is NOT representative of real liberals and progressives, which is a shame because this website came into being as George Bush lied America into an illegal war.

And now Democrats in 2019 have come full circle with siding with George Freaking Bush, the Republican dominated National Security state and the Military-Industrial-Complex, and the corporate hacks who call themselves Never-Trump'ers.

You defending corporatism, regardless if it comes from Republicans or Democrats, makes YOU complicit in the continuing decline of America.

#45 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 12:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Go back and read that one several more times, loaf-boy.

You might learn something for a change.

#44 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

Flogging your log to pictures of Martha's Vineyard again?

#46 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 12:15 PM | Reply

Again with the strawman.

You live in logical fallacies.

#47 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 12:17 PM | Reply

"Corporate MSM censorship doesn't allow people like Chris Hedges (or Thomas Frank, or people like Ralph Nader and Matt Taibbi) on either network and cable news, or the NYT or WaPo"

Yet you think a majority of Americans agree with those people.

Why?

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 12:21 PM | Reply

Yet you think a majority of Americans agree with those people.

Why?

#48 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Again, here ...

www.salon.com

Allow Government to Negotiate Drug Prices (79%)
Give Students the Same Low Interest Rates as Big Banks (78%)
Universal Pre-Kindergarten (77%)
Fair Trade that Protect Workers, the Environment, and Jobs (75%)
End Tax Loopholes for Corporations that Ship Jobs Overseas (74%)
End Gerrymandering (73%)
Let Homeowners Pay Down Mortgage With 401k (72%)
Debt-Free College at All Public Universities (Message A) (71%)
Infrastructure Jobs Program -- $400 Billion / Year (71%)
Require NSA to Get Warrants (71%)
Disclose Corporate Spending on Politics/Lobbying (71%)
Medicare Buy-In for All (71%)
Close Offshore Corporate Tax Loopholes (70%)
Green New Deal -- Millions Of Clean-Energy Jobs (70%)
Full Employment Act (70%)
Expand Social Security Benefits (70%)

All of the above are in line with Bernie Sanders' politics and all are extremely popular, with support across the political spectrum.


And the reason you don't see the above issues on MSM is because corporate MSM simply refuses to report on the popularity of issues that are important to ordinary Americans.

How hard is that for you and AngryDoofus to understand?

#49 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 12:28 PM | Reply

Again with the strawman.

You live in logical fallacies.

#47 | POSTED BY YAV

I live in the real world -- where blighted neighborhoods and de-industrialization are as real as the flawed thinking rattling around in your Republican cranium.

#50 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 12:31 PM | Reply

#50 - Oh, this is like Republicans with their "RINO!" calls. Got it. You see, I've said for quite a while that I can't tell the difference between people like you and people like them - and you just keep giving me ammo for the shot. Now I have some dumbass "Independent" (you, in case you missed it) chastising me about being a "DINO" and absolutely clueless how you appear to everyone outside your bubble.

I must have missed how living in a de-industrialized, blighted neighborhood, makes you "real" and me something else.

You sure have a way of building consensus, don't you? Good job. Idiot.

As I said upthread:
I'm a Democrat. Have been for years. You aren't. You even claim in your profile you're an Independent.

So - GFY, and don't bother with the "kindly" part.

#51 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 12:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Yeah. Let's tear it down. Burn it to the ground and salt it."

Problem is, you have no alternative, and won't take responsibility for the destruction's aftermath.

#52 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-10 12:47 PM | Reply

"And the reason you don't see the above issues on MSM is because corporate MSM simply refuses to report on the popularity of issues that are important to ordinary Americans."

Reparations aren't on the list of things Americans want.

Medicare For All isn't on the list either.

Neither is Green New Deal.

There's a pretty wide gulf between that list and what you're pushing.

That being said, any Democrat will get you more of what's on that list than any Republican, so why isn't that good enough?

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 12:56 PM | Reply

You sure have a way of building consensus, don't you? Good job. Idiot.

#51 | POSTED BY YAV

Again, the DR is not representative of the country as a whole.

You're as bad as Goatman, which means you've long lost this argument.

#54 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 12:59 PM | Reply

" You sure have a way of building consensus, don't you? Good job. Idiot."

" So - GFY, and don't bother with the "kindly" part."

Seems to me you haven't figured out the language of "building consensus" either, Yav

#55 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-10 01:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pinchaloaf.

What percentage of those things were in Hillary's platform, and what percentage of those things were in Trump's platform?

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 01:18 PM | Reply

I tried, and I stopped caring.

I am done. There's only so many times I should be expected to be called all kinds of things and having my motivation challenged, my life experience discounted, before I say enough.

That goes for you, too, Hagbard. I've been here a long, long, time. I've enjoyed you a great deal, I supported Pinch's posts regarding the VA for years, but it's over. People don't get to question my authenticity, my beliefs, my values over and over, again and again, and then call me out for not being a "good enough Democrat" when they don't call themselves even a Democrat.

So figure it out, Hagbard, or don't. If you can't see the damage Pinch does with his constant parroting of "hoax this" and "hoax that" - all coinciding with the GOP's talking points, then that's on you, not me. Hell, Mackris even cites him and agrees with him.

#57 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 01:25 PM | Reply

#57 - for Hagbard - #55.

#58 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 01:25 PM | Reply

"I am done. There's only so many times I should be expected to be called all kinds of things and having my motivation challenged, my life experience discounted, before I say enough"

I could have written that myself. Difference is, you have 80 to 90 percent of retorters on your side, so spare us your salty tears.

#59 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-10 01:51 PM | Reply

#57 | POSTED BY YAV

If being called a Republican is such that you're unable to respond, then you don't know you stand for.

You're being lied to by a corporate MSM that is friendly to the Democratic Party and who both don't have your best interests at the forefront.

It's that simple.

And if I can poke giant holes in things like Russigate, Ukrainegate, political corruption, and where the Democratic Party's true loyalties reside, then anyone can.

Thomas Frank -- that's the answer to help guide anyone thru the maze of lies and misinformation -- if you don't believe Thomas Frank, there's not much more that can help you.

#60 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 02:00 PM | Reply

#60 -

Great example. Thanks.

You know what people hear when they read that?

Of course you don't.

#61 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 02:16 PM | Reply

and while you're at it, just become the Republican that you are.

#38 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-1

More likely in your case than mine, given your weak grasp of history.

#62 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 02:19 PM | Reply

"You're being lied to by a corporate MSM that is friendly to the Democratic Party and who both don't have your best interests at the forefront."

New to this whole "Capitalism" thing?

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 02:19 PM | Reply

"who both don't have your best interests at the forefront."

They have more of you interests at the forefront that the GOP does.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 02:20 PM | Reply

just become the Republican that you are.

#38 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-1

The Democratic Party needs a big tent to win against Trump.

You're not a big tent sort of guy.

You want Trump to win.

#65 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 02:20 PM | Reply

"I am done. There's only so many times I should be expected to be called all kinds of things and having my motivation challenged, my life experience discounted, before I say enough"

I could have written that myself. Difference is, you have 80 to 90 percent of retorters on your side, so spare us your salty tears.

#59 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

I don't have a problem with honest disagreements, especially when it comes from ordinary Americans.

It's the phoney and fakeness from the top that pisses me off and SHOULD outrage everyone -- and when I say that, I'm talking about the people who have all the money and all the say so.

Just seeing people like Bill Maher tongue bathing Joe Scarborough while pushing Amy Klobuchar as a choice for the Dem Nominee is so pathetic -- same with the sickening rehabilitation of George W. Bush by "liberals" and Democrats. Then there's the MSM who, if they were doing their jobs, would be reporting on America's epidemic levels of poverty and rampant homelessness everyday on the nightly news.

As Thomas Frank has pointed out, this attitude from the Democratic Elite residing in blue-blood enclaves like Martha's Vineyard and Hollywood stems from their idea that lip service but no real policies are all that's needed to win my vote, and they're wrong -- well, I did vote for Hillary in 2016, but hindsight is 20/20, and that was so misguided on my part that I refuse to ever making that mistake again.

#66 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 02:30 PM | Reply

You want Trump to win.

#65 | POSTED BY ZED

I DON'T want Trump to win -- repeat that a few gillion times, then tattoo it your forehead AND on the inside of your eyelids.

You're just as bad as right-wing authoritarians -- just, as, bad.

By the way, some people call right-wing authoritarians fascists.

#67 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You know what people hear when they read that?

Of course you don't.

#61 | POSTED BY YAV

I've had that that very sort of conversation with white people who bought into "reverse" racism regarding Colin Kaepernick ...

They'd say, "I'm called a racist for disagreeing". And my response was, "have you ever had a conversation with a black person?"

If these white people are so rattled by being called a racist, then they being so ill equip'd to respond shows they really don't have a moral compass -- if you have any morality you'd agree that being gunned down without just cause by police is the most horrible thing imaginable ...

and that there's only so many "misunderstandings" to explain why blacks are being unjustifiable gunned down by police.

Now do you understand?

#68 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 02:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I am done. There's only so many times I should be expected to be called all kinds of things and having my motivation challenged, my life experience discounted, before I say enough."

Because pinch is being a jerk?

I forget how easy some have it here.

#69 | Posted by eberly at 2019-11-10 02:58 PM | Reply

Because pinch is being a jerk?

I forget how easy some have it here.

#69 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I'm a jerk and a bad person for resisting groupthink?

Again, if I can poke giant holes in things like Russigate, Ukrainegate, political corruption, and where the Democratic Party's true loyalties reside, then anyone can.

#70 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 03:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're just as bad as right-wing authoritarians -- >

#67 | Posted by PinchALoaf

Let me think of a snappy comeback.

#71 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 03:06 PM | Reply

Again, if I can poke giant holes in things like Russigate, Ukrainegate,

#70 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 03:05 PM

Is that what you think you've done?

#72 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-10 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I'm a jerk and a bad person for resisting groupthink?"

Kind of, yeah.
Your shtick is that anyone who doesn't agree with all the woke things you want, must be brainwashed.
You couldn't be more self-important if you were a Trumper.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 03:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Again, if I can poke giant holes in things like Russigate, Ukrainegate, political corruption, and where the Democratic Party's true loyalties reside, then anyone can."

^
Destroying things is easy.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 03:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Your shtick is that anyone who doesn't agree with all the woke things you want, must be brainwashed.
You couldn't be more self-important if you were a Trumper."

This is the problem, loaf-boy.

But I don't expect you to be able to comprehend that.

#75 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-10 03:22 PM | Reply

"If these white people are so rattled by being called a racist, then they being so ill equip'd to respond shows they really don't have a moral compass -- if you have any morality you'd agree that being gunned down without just cause by police is the most horrible thing imaginable"

Okay.
Yet you think Reparations! is a winning issue...
Are you just stupid, or what?
???

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-10 03:32 PM | Reply

Now do you understand?

#68 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2019-11-10 02:47 PM | FLAG: | FUNNY: 1

Another great example. Thanks, Pinch.

You telling me what I should believe. What I should "understand." Because I couldn't possibly understand or know.

All you did was reinforce the very point I was making.

Good job, -------.

#77 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-10 03:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm a jerk and a bad person..."

I said jerk. Not bad person.

You are a jerk. It's not the worst insult.

You're trying to be one.

And you're going to get a vacation

Why? For upsetting the wrong group.

If they get upset....you get tossed.

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2019-11-10 04:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

This is the problem, loaf-boy.

But I don't expect you to be able to comprehend that.

#75 | POSTED BYANGRYDAD

Your problem is you smoke your own toe jam.

#79 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 04:44 PM | Reply

You are a jerk. It's not the worst insult.

You're trying to be one.

And you're going to get a vacation

Why? For upsetting the wrong group.

If they get upset....you get tossed.

#78 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Upsetting the "wrong group"? That's ridiculous on multiple levels.

I had my own thread where I said that 2020 was the Democratic Party's last chance with me -- it was even put on the front page.

You guys haven't been paying attention, except for the lies and misinformation that the MSM feeds you.

#80 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 04:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-Upsetting the "wrong group"? That's ridiculous on multiple levels.

How do? Do you understand what I mean?

#81 | Posted by eberly at 2019-11-10 04:55 PM | Reply

Our Martha's Vineyard Democrats like to talk about inequality. It makes them sad, but it's also a problem they have almost no desire to tackle.

It should now be clear to you.

#26 | Posted by PinchALoaf

WHo voted to cut taxes on those people and take healthcare from the poor idiot? Not democrats. Rich dems vote to RAISE their own taxes to help the less fortunate. Your BOTH SIDES crap only works on other ignorant morons.

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-10 04:57 PM | Reply

Noam Chomsky: Trump-Russia Collusion Claims "A Bad Joke"
www.realclearpolitics.com!

In March 2019, weeks before the Mueller Report was finalized, MIT linguistics scholar and "Manufacturing Consent" author Noam Chomsky explained in an interview why accusations of Russian election meddling and Trump-Russia collusion were "a joke."

NOAM CHOMSKY: I think it is so farcical that I barely even read the reports. It's a joke.

"If there was any interference by the Russians, it is essentially undetectable."

"There are careful analyses of what happened in the election, you can see how it changed, how the money poured in, other things. There is no sign of any Russian effect."

"Furthermore, it is almost incredible from the beginning. What happened in the Senate and the House in 2016?"

"Did the Russians interfere in the Senate elections?"

"They went exactly the same ways."


QFT

#83 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 05:00 PM | Reply

WHo voted to cut taxes on those people and take healthcare from the poor idiot? Not democrats. Rich dems vote to RAISE their own taxes to help the less fortunate. Your BOTH SIDES crap only works on other ignorant morons.

#82 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Republican Party = party of the 1% = The Plutocrats

Democratic Party = party of the 10% = The Professional Class

Republicans controlled the House in 2017, which gave Pelosi and Democrats political cover to vote enmass against the Trump/GOP tax cut -- which is good that the Dems did that.

But rich Democratic Party establishment donors STILL got their corporate tax cuts.

#84 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 05:08 PM | Reply

Republican Party = party of the 1% = The Plutocrats

Democratic Party = party of the 10% = The Professional Class

Based on this post of yours. We can determine there is no party representing the remaining 89% of Americans.

Considering there's a 100% chance a Democrat or Republican will win in 2020, what's your plan?

#85 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-11-10 05:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Vote less evil

-Snoofy

#86 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-11-10 05:23 PM | Reply

Based on this post of yours. We can determine there is no party representing the remaining 89% of Americans.

Considering there's a 100% chance a Democrat or Republican will win in 2020, what's your plan?

#85 | POSTED BYCLOWNSHACK

My plan is Bernie, Tulsi, Yang, Warren [maybe] -- if not any of those four, I will NOT vote for a corporate Democrat nor will I NOT vote for Trump.

But I will happily find and vote for someone who represents the issues that are important to me.

As you can see below, the Democratic Party represents the professional class, not the working or middle-class -- which is why corporate Democratic policies, as Thomas Frank points in post #26, are nothing but meaningless platitudes.

Midterms show Dems the party of the elite, not the middle class
thehill.com

Democrats -- the party of the professional class
www.bostonglobe.com

Time For Democrats To Stop Catering To The Professional Class
www.huffpost.com

What's your plan?

#87 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 05:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

But I will happily find and vote for someone who represents the issues that are important to me.

Might as well get on it...

#88 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-11-10 05:47 PM | Reply

But rich Democratic Party establishment donors STILL got their corporate tax cuts.

#84 | Posted by PinchALoaf

Not because they tried to get them. It's not their fault they got tax cuts. They tried to elect people who want to RAISE their taxes and help the sick and poor. Your insistence on ignoring that makes you look stupid.

Even if your 1%/10% argument is accurate (which it's not), it it better to only help 1% of the country or better to help 10% of the country? One of those is TEN TIMES worse than the other dum dum.

#89 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-10 08:37 PM | Reply

#89 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

See post #87,

Then see post #26.

And you can go to YouTube and hear liberal author Thomas Frank explain it all in his many interviews and lectures.

No offense, but you and the others are misguided.

#90 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-10 08:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

No offense, but you and the others are misguided.

#90 | Posted by PinchALoaf

No offense, but if you can't admit that dems, while imperfect, are light years better for the average american than repubs, you are beyond misguided, well into the land of moronic.

#91 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-10 10:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

dems, while imperfect, are light years better for the average american than repubs

This.

Also. Bernie isn't going to get the candidacy.

He's even been left off some recent polls. With Biden, Harris and Warren as the top three.

A Biden/Harris ticket wouldn't surprise me.

Trump will win 2020.

#92 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-11-11 03:21 AM | Reply

The closer November looms, the more vicious the press gets.
Attempting to sway the People via the press will go on record as the REAL collusion.

#93 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-11-11 08:05 AM | Reply

The closer November looms, the more vicious the press gets.

#93 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-11-11 08:05 AM | R

Will they get as vicious as Trump is, do you think?

#94 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 08:11 AM | Reply

"Will they get as vicious as Trump is, do you think?
#94 | POSTED BY ZED"

They surpassed our President long ago. He's playing catch up.

#95 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-11-11 08:17 AM | Reply

"I tried, and I stopped caring."

So you concede that you are part of the problem you're complaining about?

#96 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-11 08:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"He's even been left off some recent polls."

Bernie blindness is all over the place. And it's intentional.

#97 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-11 08:22 AM | Reply

Will they get as vicious as Trump is, do you think?

donald isn't vicious, he's just turning into Philip Francis Queeg.

#98 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-11-11 08:25 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

They surpassed our President

#95 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at

Your president.

#99 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 08:39 AM | Reply

He's (Trump's) playing catch up.

#95 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2019-11-11

No matter your opinion of the press, if you were honest you'd concede that Trump has been nasty for all of his life.

#100 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 08:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So you concede that you are part of the problem you're complaining about?"

In the sense that people are feeding the troll and giving him the attention he wants, you're probably right. The sad thing is Pincheloaf probably doesn't even think of himself as a troll and believes his constant flaming of anyone who doesn't agree with him is rational and totally not counterproductive. Ironically, some of his words are almost exactly identical to those who said "if you don't vote for Hillary Clinton, you might as well vote for Trump."

#101 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-11-11 09:32 AM | Reply

#101 today I am with you.

However, you are completely wrong to tell people they shouldn't be angry about all of this.

You need to find a new angle.

#102 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 09:49 AM | Reply

In the sense that people are feeding the troll and giving him the attention he wants, you're probably right. The sad thing is Pincheloaf probably doesn't even think of himself as a troll and believes his constant flaming of anyone who doesn't agree with him is rational and totally not counterproductive. Ironically, some of his words are almost exactly identical to those who said "if you don't vote for Hillary Clinton, you might as well vote for Trump."

#101 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

The sad thing is you're naive and gullible and you easily fall into group-think that supports corrupt corporatism.

And I do have the right change my mind, which I did when it came to Hillary, when presented with new evidence ...

Thomas Frank: It's Clinton Who Wrecked the Democratic Party
youtu.be
[7:10]

QFT

#103 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 09:54 AM | Reply

Any Krystal Ball quotes for us Pinche?

#104 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 09:56 AM | Reply

#101 today I am with you.

However, you are completely wrong to tell people they shouldn't be angry about all of this.

You need to find a new angle.

#102 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

You need to find a new party.

Corporate apologists like you need to go ahead and join the Republican Party.

#105 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 09:57 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You are suggesting that I become a Trumper, like you? No thank you. I'm trying to stop people like you from ushering in the Trump Reich.

#106 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 09:58 AM | Reply

Any Krystal Ball quotes for us Pinche?

#104 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Any tears for billionaires from you today, toady?

#107 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 09:59 AM | Reply

Billionaires? You hate anyone making over 50k per year. Don't pretend, you moron Trumper.

#108 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 10:00 AM | Reply

You are suggesting that I become a Trumper, like you? No thank you. I'm trying to stop people like you from ushering in the Trump Reich.

#106 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

I didn't vote for Trump in 2016.

And I will not vote for Trump in 2020.

How's your corporate Democrat tailored kneepads holding up?

#109 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:01 AM | Reply

Your drag look is Kelly-Anne Conaway

#110 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 10:02 AM | Reply

That one hit home, eh?

#111 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 10:04 AM | Reply

Now I see why you use the language of emasculation. You only speak about what you know.

#112 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 10:04 AM | Reply

Billionaires? You hate anyone making over 50k per year. Don't pretend, you moron Trumper.

#108 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

I don't hate anyone ...

The Pact Between Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich
www.usnews.com

Hillary Clinton Might Be Moving Toward Social Security Privatization
www.forbes.com

well, except anyone who tries to steal my social security.

How many times do I have to say I don't support Trump, Mr. Corporate Boot Licker?

#113 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:06 AM | Reply

How many times do I have to say I don't support Trump?

#113 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:06 AM | Reply

In your opinion, why does no one believe you?

#114 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:09 AM | Reply

Now I see why you use the language of emasculation. You only speak about what you know.

#112 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

I was in the military for 20 years, wussie.

Go enlist and get back to me in 2039, BarbaraBillingsley.

#115 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

There is no more loyal Trumper on here than Pinche.

#116 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 10:11 AM | Reply

In your opinion, why does no one believe you?

#114 | POSTED BY ZED

Why do you think the DR is representative of America as a whole?

#117 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:11 AM | Reply

I was in the military for 20 years, wussie.

#115 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2019-11-11 10:10 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Like you spent 20 years in a Village People cover band?

#118 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 10:12 AM | Reply

Why do you think the DR is representative of America as a whole?

#117 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11

Did I say that?

#119 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:13 AM | Reply

There is no more loyal Trumper on here than Pinche.

#116 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

There's no more loyal corporate lackey than Brucy-Lucy.

#120 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:13 AM | Reply

Barbara Billingsley.

#115 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11

Was cute.

#121 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:14 AM | Reply

Did I say that?

#119 | POSTED BY ZED

I put issues having strong bipartisan majorities in front of your nose and you deny reality -- so currying favor with posters on this website is beside the point.

#122 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:16 AM | Reply

so currying favor with posters on this website is beside the point.

#122 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:16 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

?

#123 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:17 AM | Reply

Was cute.

#121 | POSTED BY ZED

You're a cutie pie, Zelda.

#124 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:18 AM | Reply

You're a cutie pie, Zelda.

#124 | Posted by PinchALoaf at

No one will dispute you.

#125 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:19 AM | Reply

The major issue in 2020 is the re-institution of clean, honest, and loyal government. That won't happen with Trump in office. Almost all other considerations are trivial.

#126 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:21 AM | Reply

"You're a cutie pie, Zelda."
#124 | Posted by PinchALoaf
"No one will dispute you."
#125 | POSTED BY ZED

OMG. Get a room you two.

#127 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-11-11 10:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The major issue in 2020 is the re-institution of clean, honest, and loyal government. That won't happen with Trump in office. Almost all other considerations are trivial.

#126 | POSTED BY ZED

Impeaching Trump over Ukraine when Democrats -- namely former Vice President Biden and his --------- kid -- are also corrupt over Ukraine is NOT re-instituting "clean, honest, and loyal government".

#128 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 10:32 AM | Reply

#128 | Posted by PinchALoaf

Trump has earned impeachment on his own merits. If you don't like Biden, don't vote for him. I have a primary in my state and I'm sure there's one in yours.

#129 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 10:49 AM | Reply

"The major issue in 2020 is the re-institution of clean, honest, and loyal government. That won't happen with Trump in office. Almost all other considerations are trivial.
#126 | POSTED BY ZED
'Impeaching Trump over Ukraine when Democrats -- namely former Vice President Biden and his --------- kid -- are also corrupt over Ukraine is NOT re-instituting "clean, honest, and loyal government".'
#128 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF

Too much hyperbole here, on both sides. Government has never been clean, honest and loyal. Whoever succeeds Trump is not going to institute that, no matter who it is. But it's absurd to compare what Trump has done to things that other politicians in either party have done, since it goes beyond simple graft. We already debunked the claim about what VP Biden allegedly did in the other thread.

#130 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-11-11 11:02 AM | Reply

"However, you are completely wrong to tell people they shouldn't be angry about all of this.
"You need to find a new angle."

I never said people shouldn't be angry about anything. I said they shouldn't act reflexively out of anger. When people do that, they make mistakes which cost them in the long term in the pursuit of their goals.

#131 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-11-11 11:06 AM | Reply

"The sad thing is you're naive and gullible and you easily fall into group-think that supports corrupt corporatism."

Do you have anything substantial to say? All you're doing is sarcastically mimicking my sincere statement and dropping in a straw man. You're like the teenager who thinks he's being a non-conformist when he consistently conforms to the exact opposite of what he views as "mainstream".

"And I do have the right change my mind, which I did when it came to Hillary, when presented with new evidence ..."

Let me guess... were you by any chance one of the people I was referring to, who said people might as well vote for Trump if they didn't vote for Hillary, at the time?

#132 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-11-11 11:18 AM | Reply

The major issue in 2020 is the re-institution of clean, honest, and loyal government. That won't happen with Trump in office. Almost all other considerations are trivial.

#126 | POSTED BY ZED

Too much hyperbole here

#130 | Posted by sentinel at

You confuse hyperbole for focus. You may not believe that good government is possible but a wise man has hope and keeps his eyes on the ball nonetheless.

#133 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 11:27 AM | Reply

So you concede that you are part of the problem you're complaining about?

Dishonest, Hagbard.
I gave you more credit than you deserve.
I won't make that mistake again.

#134 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 11:27 AM | Reply

Dishonest, Hagbard.
I gave you more credit than you deserve.
I won't make that mistake again.

#134 | Posted by YAV

*munches popcorn*

#135 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-11 11:32 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Vice President Biden and his --------- kid
#128 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2019-11-11 10:32 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Provide the links to what they did wrong.

So far, it's been nothing.

Don't you get tired of pumping debunked Trump conspiracy theories?

#136 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 12:05 PM | Reply

"I gave you more credit than you deserve."

LOL. There's that language of consensus building again.

#137 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-11 12:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Provide the links to what they did wrong.

So far, it's been nothing.

Don't you get tired of pumping debunked Trump conspiracy theories?

#136 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Biden's kid was paid $50K a month by a foreign government to do nothing while the Old Man was Veep ...

but whatever you say, AFKABL2

#138 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 12:19 PM | Reply

Funny how you only came after me, despite all the over the top crap from Pinch.

Your "consensus building" shaming won't work. Your critique is hypocritical and hollow.

#139 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 12:21 PM | Reply

No link? No facts? Keep pumping those debunked Trump propaganda conspiracy theories, you useful idiot.

#140 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-11 12:21 PM | Reply

Pinch has spent time understanding the Democratic parties lack of self awareness regarding the populist labor driven movement in this country. Pinch understands the disconnect that the Democratic elite have with regular Americans who want to pull out of these foreign entanglements that do nothing but enrich the military industrial complex. While we may not agree on the cure, I fundamentally agree with Pinch on the diagnoses.

On the other hand, Zed's the smart one siding with neo-liberals on eternal war in the ME, and trade deals that hollow out the middle class and come back for seconds. Never Trump is should be good enough. If it isn't, you're deplorable. The candidate doesn't actually suck, it's the fault of the Russians. People like James Clapper and John Brennan who feed brown people around the world into the woodchipper based on lies on the regular are the good guys and really looking out for everyday Americans, rather than furthering their own agendas.

Pinch leaves more integrity in the toilet every morning than Zed will ever have.

#141 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2019-11-11 12:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Biden's kid was paid $50K a month by a foreign government to do nothing while the Old Man was Veep ...

More right-wing talking points. More examples of "consensus building" - right Hagbard?

#142 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 12:22 PM | Reply

Pinch leaves more integrity in the toilet every morning than Zed will ever have.

#141 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at

I invite you to see my bowel movements over breakfast one morning.

#143 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 12:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

On the other hand, Zed's the smart one siding with neo-liberals on eternal war in the ME,

141 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at

A competent president could have found a way not to betray the Kurds.

That has nothing to do with "eternal war", and everything to do with a mentally-ill shyster.

#144 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 12:43 PM | Reply

#141 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at

Donald Trump is a maggot. A maggot that you dress heroic myths around.

An heroic maggot. Go figure.

#145 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 12:46 PM | Reply

"He has completely remade the American presidency through his debasements of its traditions. He has pitted the country against each other in a cold civil war and he is the first president purposefully who, with each and every utterance, he seeks to incite and divide as opposed to unifying around core principles. "

AHAHAHAHA AH AHA HA HAH AH AH AH A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA H AH HA HA HA H HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA H HAH AH AH AH A H HA HAH A HA HA HA HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

This type of person is seriously worse than any other type of "political voice". Ignoring reality and making up things is so childish that I still wonder why so many adults do it. I can't even say how dumb, ignorant, stupid, etc. a quote that is. So now people who got offended by something Trump did are actually trying to blame partisan politics on Trump. As if it never existed to the parity it does today. Cons did nothing but butcher Obama every chance they got. Dims did the same to W. Cons did it to Clinton. Etc. It's been going on since American politics started but the degree it is today spawned during Clinton. My assumption is that social technology caused it to exponentially escalate to where it is today. But in no way, shape, or form can anyone rightly and justifiably try to blame cutthroat partisan hate on Trump. The Dims are just following the same pattern of the Cons before them, and the Dims before them, etc.

I have YET to see any POTUS since the first Bush who delivered anything that resembled "unifying around core principles." In fact, the entire reason we have so many hate-filled people is DUE to not having unified core principles. The problem has never been core principles, the problem is that hate-filled people believe that those who don't hold the same core principles are somehow less than.

#146 | Posted by humtake at 2019-11-11 12:51 PM | Reply

A competent president could have found a way not to betray the Kurds.

That has nothing to do with "eternal war", and everything to do with a mentally-ill shyster.

What you consider a competent president (like the Queen of the Warmongers) would never leave...and that would be just fine with you. You couldn't care less.

"Democrats" like you are the problem.

#147 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2019-11-11 12:51 PM | Reply

#147 - Pinch? Is that you?

#148 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 12:54 PM | Reply

What you consider a competent president (like the Queen of the Warmongers) would never leave...and that would be just fine with you. You couldn't care less.

"Democrats" like you are the problem.

#147 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake

Trump didn't leave. He just moved them. Then sent more to saudi arabia.

And you bought it because you're a chump.

#149 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-11 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#147 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake

What Trump did to the Kurds is gross and unforgiveable. What he did provides the United States with no honor and no objective advantage.

He behaved like a maggot. I like presidents who don't behave like filth-eating larva.

#150 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump didn't leave. He just moved them. Then sent more to saudi arabia.

And you bought it because you're a chump.

#149 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019

He isn't stupid. He knows exactly what Trump did. But apparently maggot-hood is glamorous in some way.

#151 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 01:00 PM | Reply

#146 | Posted by humtake

So someone being hated means that person is divisive?

Clinton was hated because he was popular. So repubs HATED him and tried to impeach him over a BJ.

Obama was hated because he was popular AND BLACK. So repubs hated him and tried to say he couldn't' be a real citizen.

It's not their fault that they were hated by repubs, yet you try to call THEM divisive.

Compare that to dubya, who EARNED his hate for lying the nation into a war, and trump who EARNED his hate by lying so much that he made half the country think there is no longer such a thing as a FACT.

#152 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-11 01:00 PM | Reply

What Trump did to the Kurds stank so freaking bad that even my Nazis Republican Congressman voted to condemn him for it.

#153 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-11 01:01 PM | Reply

"Biden's kid was paid $50K a month by a foreign government to do nothing while the Old Man was Veep ..."

You're equivocating here. No one is trying to impeach Trump over over his children profiting off his connections to him.

#154 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-11-11 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"More right-wing talking points. More examples of "consensus building" - right Hagbard?"

Is that the low bar you want to judge yourself by? Is that how a Democrat is going to win in the general?

#155 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-11 02:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Avoid the ramifications for your actions as much as you can, Hagbard.
Enjoy the primary.

#156 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 03:08 PM | Reply

"Avoid the ramifications for your actions as much as you can, Hagbard. Enjoy the primary."

You simultaneously miss and reinforce my point. It didn't have to be this way.

#157 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-11 05:31 PM | Reply

Well then, we'll need to stop talking past each other and assuming.
I don't even know what your point was, so I'm not surprised I missed it.
All your point seemed to be was more criticism of how I'm wrong. I'm not being a "consensus builder." All the while completely ignoring the actions of the person to whom I was responding. I get criticized about being a "good" Democrat, when I'm the one that has "Democrat" by my name, and not Pinch, who has said if the candidate the Democrats elect isn't his chosen one, he won't support them. Period. All the while flooding this site with videos and "QFT" and right-wing talking points.

So there's some context from my perspective.

So please. Speak. Help bridge the gap. Let me know how it could be instead. I am open.

#158 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 05:45 PM | Reply

All the while flooding this site with videos and "QFT" and right-wing talking points.

#158 | POSTED BYYAV

Thomas Frank is a liberal author
Hill TV has a liberal (Krystal Ball) and conservative (Saager Enjeti)
Jimmy Dore is a progressive
Ralph Nader is a progressive
The Real News Network is liberal and progressive
Zero Hour with R.J. Eskow is a progressive
Useful Idiots w/Katie Halper & Matt Taibbi are liberal progressive
Chris Hedges is progressive
Noam Chomsky is a hero and champion of The Left

Respectfully, you and others are not used to being challenged, plus you guys have been hoodwinked by corporate voices who don't have Democrats best interests at the forefront.

#159 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 06:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#159 | Posted by PinchALoaf

And how many of those people spend all their time trying to pretend that democrats are no better than repubs like you do?

#160 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-11 06:57 PM | Reply

#59 - Tell us how stupid all of us are again. Maybe we didn't hear it the first 1,000 times you said it.

#161 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 07:37 PM | Reply

#159 - Tell us how stupid all of us are again. Maybe we didn't hear it the first 1,000 times you said it.

#161 | POSTED BYYAV

As stupid as people saying that I'm a Trump voter when I voted for Hillary.

That's pretty stupid.

#162 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 07:57 PM | Reply

I have never said that.

You on the other hand have told me I'm stupid, repeatedly, because I am deceived, unable to think for myself.
You then turned around and called me a Republican.

#163 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-11 08:04 PM | Reply

And how many of those people spend all their time trying to pretend that democrats are no better than repubs like you do?

#160 | POSTED BYSPEAKSOFTLY

That's simply not true.

We know Republicans suck.

That said, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama did not materially improve the lives of ordinary Americans.

Blaming Trump on Russiagate nonsense does not answer why America is the richest country in the world and yet half the population is poor.

#164 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-11-11 08:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Materially.
You mean money?

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-11 08:13 PM | Reply

Silence.

#166 | Posted by YAV at 2019-11-12 07:31 AM | Reply

Ol' Loaf-boy did a fantastic job of "goatmaning" this thread.

Hardly a single comment on the actual subject.

#167 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-12 08:04 AM | Reply

#164 | Posted by PinchALoaf

And it looks like the "Nullification" of this moron is pretty much complete.

Shag-off, Loaf-boy.

#168 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-11-12 08:09 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

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