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Thursday, November 14, 2019

What does it mean to be a conservative in the Age of Trump? Has "owning the libs" become the essence of conservatism? If so, what does that say about the current state of the conservative movement? What does it say about its ability to make America great again"or even to exercise substantial influence over any part of the culture?

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Russell Kirk helped give that movement its name in 1953 when he published The Conservative Mind. At a pivotal point in history, Kirk's book helped transform conservatism from a marginalized strain of thought into a respectable intellectual tradition in its own right, capable of competing with liberalism for dominance of American politics.

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'Has "owning the libs" become the essence of conservatism? If so, what does that say about the current state of the conservative movement?'

That it is populated by rednecks?

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-14 08:16 AM | Reply

"Kirk's book helped transform conservatism from a marginalized strain of thought into a respectable intellectual tradition in its own right, capable of competing with liberalism for dominance of American politics."

Utter nonsense. America was based on liberal values, conservatism has always been opposed to the very ideas that are expressed in the Declaration of Independence, the Magna Carta. I do see a reason for conservatism though, it is the reining of the liberal movement so that we don't go too far or too fast but it is not an equal train of thought, if it actually were we'd still have slaves, women couldn't vote and black people couldn't use the same bathrooms or water fountains. To believe in conservatism to to believe that progress should stop now and not go forward. I've understood that my entire life and have never identified as a conservative. When I watched George Wallace proclaim, "I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." I was about 13 years old and realized that I could never be a conservative. Conservatism, around the world, has denied human rights to millions and justified it by pretending that the powerful had the right to do so and the less powerful should accept subjugation.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-14 08:22 AM | Reply

--Utter nonsense.

Have you read KirK? Or the Federalist papers? Or any classic work of political philosphy from Plato to the present?

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-14 08:49 AM | Reply

Utter nonsense
#2 | POSTED BY DANNI

No, just an opposing viewpoint.
Mr Wallner speaks of Conservatism becoming an 'Own the Libs' movement because it's easier than thinking. I think Liberals are guilty of the same 'don't think, own the Cons, mentality.
I don't believe that Liberalism was the founding principle of the country. Liberal and liberty have different definitions.
You were born and raised after a long run of progressivism by the Roosevelts, Wilson and others. That was what you accepted as the norm. But it's not where we began.
I understand your thoughts on Wallace. But do remember Wallace identifying as a Conservative doesn't mean that Conservatives identify as Wallace.
Read the post, takes about 10 minutes. Requires a little more effort than 'Own the Con'.

#4 | Posted by 6thPersona at 2019-11-14 10:41 AM | Reply

"Wallace identifying as a Conservative doesn't mean that Conservatives identify as Wallace"

I think it was (1968) Louisiana, Mississippi, Alambama, Georgia, and South Carolina.

#5 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-14 10:44 AM | Reply

But it's not where we began.

#4 | Posted by 6thPersona

Did we begin with Donald Trump?

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-14 10:45 AM | Reply

"Has "owning the libs" become the essence of conservatism?"

First, today's Republicans aren't conservatives.

Second, if today's Republicans thought libs hated limping, they'd shoot themselves in the foot.

#7 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-14 10:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 6 | Newsworthy 1

Second, if today's Republicans thought libs hated limping, they'd shoot themselves in the foot.

#7 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I'm currently reading Red Notice by Bill Browder. In it he tells a joke about Russian oligarchs. I'll paraphrase from memory:

A Russian oligarch finds a genie lantern, rubs it and the genie appears. The genie informs him that he will grant the oligarch one wish but it must be requested quickly. The oligarch responds that he wants a billion dollars. The genie says, "Granted" but adds that anything he gives to the oligarch he'll give double to his neighbor. To which the oligarch replies to keep the billion dollars and instead gouge out one of his eyes.

#8 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-14 10:57 AM | Reply

I don't believe that Liberalism was the founding principle of the country. Liberal and liberty have different definitions.

Nailed it. I always say that the US was founded on libertarian principles, centered on the freedom to pursue your own version of success. Federal powers were restricted to prevent it from becoming a barricade to that pursuit, and to provide it with the authority to prevent others from doing so.

That's it. Protestant work ethic and elimination of barriers to the American Dream.

#9 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-11-14 11:16 AM | Reply

I'm old enough to remember when the gop was the intelligent party.

Then Reagan came along....

#10 | Posted by kudzu at 2019-11-14 11:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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"That's it. Protestant work ethic and elimination of barriers to the American Dream."

Probably explains why we didn't really develop a large middle class until FDR came along, until unions came along, etc. American dream was out of reach for most Americans until those things happened.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-14 11:25 AM | Reply

"I always say that the US was founded on libertarian principles, centered on the freedom to pursue your own version of success. Federal powers were restricted to prevent it from becoming a barricade to that pursuit, and to provide it with the authority to prevent others from doing so."

The caucasity it takes to continue making this argument as if it is in any way meaningful is pretty impressive.

#12 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-11-14 11:36 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

Much like the Left has tried to change the meaning of the word gender, it is changing the meaning of the word LIBERAL. Due to their misuse/re-definition, it now stands for someone that wants a giant nanny state making decisions, stealing money from the productive to give to the idle and censorship of speech and thought.

How did we get to this point? The 'liberals' are not progressive. The do not stand for freedom of thought or speech - they have become the socialist/fascists. They want control over the "means of production". In an agrarian or industrial society - that meant the land and factories. In a post-industrial society - that means control over your "body/mind" to compel labor. And that is what we get now - they want to compel you to bake gay wedding cakes. They want to control what you say, or write, or think.

This is dangerous and disgusting for anyone that loves freedom - the very thing that made America the greatest country that ever existed.

#13 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-14 09:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

#12 Feel free to rebut. With which part of my statement do you disagree?
1. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
2. Inalienable rights, free from restrictions by federal power
3. Providing for the common defense

#14 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-11-14 10:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"a conservative in the Age of Trump"
>MORE immigration - even when most immigrant groups vote overwhelmingly for democrats and leftist causes like restricting the 1st and 2nd amendments
>BASED trannies/drag queens
>MORE foreverwars and billions of shekels for Isntreal
>b-b-but MUH GDP!
>"conservative"

#15 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-11-15 12:32 AM | Reply

Yeah, I agree, so-called "conservatives" of the Ben Shapiro stripe are incoherent and eminently disposable.

#16 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-11-15 12:41 AM | Reply

Federal powers were restricted to prevent it from becoming a barricade to that pursuit, and to provide it with the authority to prevent others from doing so.

That's it. Protestant work ethic and elimination of barriers to the American Dream.

#9 | Posted by MUSTANG

LOL

Different time, different place.

Some level of restriction is necessary as the American Dream is not "become rich by any means necessary".

#17 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-15 10:00 AM | Reply

"That's it. Protestant work ethic and elimination of barriers to the American Dream."

That isn't what created our middle class. FDR and unions did. You can live in your artificial memory of a past that never existed all you want, I'll continue on in reality.

#18 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-15 10:42 AM | Reply

#17 I don't disagree. There's a difference between regulations and barriers. I'm not advocating a return to robber barons. I'm saying that in the 18th century, our country was founded on the principles I cited.

#18 Was it hard to drag a goalpost that far? What part of my statement about the founding of the nation included a discussion of middle class?

#19 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-11-15 10:47 AM | Reply

#14 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

I think Hag is hinting at the big slavery issue wrapped up into our nation's history that you are omitting.

#20 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2019-11-15 10:49 AM | Reply

#20 I suspect so, but their attitudes toward other races in their time were decoupled from their desire for a nation divested of all the things they found oppressive in the British Empire. Did they apply those principles equally to all races and sexes? No. That doesn't negate their loftier goals.

#21 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-11-15 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yes, they dumb. It's proven here on a daily basis.

#22 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2019-11-15 02:13 PM | Reply

Nailed it. I always say that the US was founded on libertarian principles, centered on the freedom to pursue your own version of success. Federal powers were restricted to prevent it from becoming a barricade to that pursuit, and to provide it with the authority to prevent others from doing so.
That's it. Protestant work ethic and elimination of barriers to the American Dream.
#9 | Posted by MUSTANG

Actually:

the DoI

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

See the DoI established the opposite of libertarianism (you are confusing liberty with libertarianism).

Libertarianism essentially is skeptical of government, that the individual's freedom trumps all.

The United States was founded as a government of, by and for the people.

And what is liberalism? Well it has evolved but in the mid 18th century it meant to turn away from hereditary birthright and espouse the values of liberty, equality and the consent of the governed-you know the essential part of the DoI.

So no it is wrong to state that the US was founded on libertarianism (that certainly was a part of it-see the Bill of Rights). But the essence of our founding was liberalism (as it was known at the time) which encompassed far more than libertarianism it also included the consent of the governed (We the People...) and equality (imperfect as it was in its implementation) both of which went against hereditary birthright.

#23 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-11-16 08:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

libertarian principles, centered on the freedom to pursue your own version of success.

As an aside, I always find libertarianism to be a refuge for truly selfish and childish behavior. All immature me, me, me. I want what I want and I dont want to pay for it.

#24 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-11-16 08:57 PM | Reply

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