Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, November 19, 2019

Mice fed a ketogenic diet - in which 90 percent of calories come from fat and less than 1 percent from carbohydrates - were less susceptible to the influenza A virus, according to a study published today (November 15) in Science Immunology.

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No vaccine shot required?

"This is heresy." - Pro-Vax Theologians

#1 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-11-18 04:37 PM | Reply

"gamma-delta T cells"

Sounds like fake cursing from the dad in A Christmas Story.

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-18 04:54 PM | Reply

"This is heresy." - Pro-Vax Theologians

#1 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Yeah, lets replace a tried and true method (yes, I'm aware of the issues with the flu shot, probably more so than you are) with an unhealthy diet that potentially incurs other significant health risks.

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-19 02:16 PM | Reply

#3 | POSTED BY JPW

You've got my interest. What is so unhealthy about the keto diet? I ask because a lot of the women I work with have been lazy/dirty/etc doing keto for a long time and experienced great success. I have given it some thought to give it a short term try and see if I can lose the 20 I would like to, but I'm not that motivated...

#4 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-19 02:59 PM | Reply

#3 | POSTED BY JPW

You've got my interest. What is so unhealthy about the keto diet? I ask because a lot of the women I work with have been lazy/dirty/etc doing keto for a long time and experienced great success. I have given it some thought to give it a short term try and see if I can lose the 20 I would like to, but I'm not that motivated...

#5 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-19 02:59 PM | Reply

Hmmm, double post, weird.

#6 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-19 03:00 PM | Reply

One of the side-effects of Keto is double-posting. Watch out!

#7 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-19 05:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#7 that is funny, I havent even started ^_^

#8 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-19 05:32 PM | Reply

#4 | Posted by justagirl_idaho

It's popular because it gives short term gains...err losses... very rapidly.

My understanding is that it's high fat, no carb, no sugar. The results are too much animal product (fat and protein), too much fat and significantly reduced or lost fiber and sugars.

Our metabolisms are tuned to run on sugar (glucose). Metabolism of fat is an alternative method of producing energy that is far less efficient. So you can throw your metabolism out of whack and also cause cardiovascular issues and exacerbate diabetes.

The only medical use I've heard of for a keto diet is in patients with epilepsy who are not responsive to medication. For some reason it reduces seizures...

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-19 11:23 PM | Reply

I prefer beer, scotch and wine to Keto, but that's just me.

Snoofy and Clown are all over Zima, so there is that.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-19 11:32 PM | Reply

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#9 - interesting. Do you think it has long term effects on metabolism if you go keto temporarily for the quick losses? How about just low carb like the old Atkins diet?

#11 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-19 11:51 PM | Reply

You're getting beyond my pay grade with that question.

I've read that constant dieting and the yo yo effects that occur because of it do rewire your metabolism, making future losses harder to obtain.

Best thing is playing the long game with healthy, balanced eating and exercise.

#12 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-20 12:02 AM | Reply

#10 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

When I was a drinker it was whiskey, scotch, or bourbon.

Then I was diagnosed with very high triglycerides, which runs in the family, dad's side.

So. I rarely drink any more.

As for zima, do they make those anymore?

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-11-20 12:03 AM | Reply

I prefer beer, scotch and wine to Keto, but that's just me.

Empty calories over fat. I like it.

Snoofy and Clown are all over Zima, so there is that.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ

Hey now, those cosmos hit hard.

That's why I stick with my white wine spritzers. MMMM candy with only a buzz.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-20 12:06 AM | Reply

I think it's better if you substitute complex carbs instead of processed carbs, and just eat as you normally would. I have had friends who have tried and at first were successful with Keto like diets but it really takes a lot of will power to keep to that kind of regimen. When they finally got tired of dieting they put on all the weight they lost and then some. I believe it's hard to be happy with your body when you think you're overweight but if you're in good health and staying active what the hell. I think I would prefer the flu shot and a beer instead of consuming copious amounts of animal fats.

#15 | Posted by Badcat at 2019-11-20 12:31 AM | Reply

Eat your sugar and get your vaccine, bitches. It's healthy, doctor said so.

#16 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2019-11-20 08:16 AM | Reply

#16 define sugar.

Soda and sweets and corn syrup? Nope. Avoid.

Fruits and vegetables and whole grains and beans and legumes and seeds? Yes. Eat up.

#17 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-20 09:02 AM | Reply

Do you think it has long term effects on metabolism if you go keto temporarily for the quick losses? How about just low carb like the old Atkins diet?

#11 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

I think it is likely that there are long term effects that we have not been able to discover yet.

I like to analyze things from an evolutionary perspective of "what did we evolve to do". In that case, we were stuck with the food that was naturally available to us at the time. During the spring it would have been a diet high in proteins and carbs, very little fat or sugar (seeds and vegetables and animals with depleted fat stores from the winter). That is the point at which our bodies would have been wanting to repair itself and build up muscle mass in anticipation of becoming active after the winter, as well as replenish any fats stores that had been depleted beyond what the body feels it needs as a reserve in times of "plenty". During the summer and into the fall the diet would gradually shift to higher and higher levels of sugars and fats. As that happens you would want your body to be adding to its fat stores in preparation for winter. So, when your diet is at its highest levels of both fats and sugars (simple carbs) you would want your body to be piling on the weight. Then, somewhat abruptly, fruits would disappear from the diet. And it would mainly be stored foods (rendered fat or smoked/dried meat are easiest to store) and hunted animals, as well as some complex carbs (roots and tubers). So, the diet would shift to a high proportion of fats and proteins with low amounts of complex carbs. At this point (the Keto diet) you would want to gradually LOSE weight so that your body (gradually and healthily) uses up its fat stores.

So, basically... complex carbs and protein = healthy body weight -> simple carbs and fat = gain weight -> protein and fat = lose weight.

If you goal is to lose weight, then Keto seems to be the best option.

And, I don't think it magically makes you burn more calories. Calories in = calories out. And your body is NOT going to waste them (especially if you are making it think it is "winter"). But, your body will probably adjust your APPETITE to take in less calories than it needs so that it loses weight. Just like your body will INCREASE your appetite if you eat a lot of simple sugars and fats to ensure that it TAKES IN more calories than it needs, thereby increasing fat stores.

But, the reason I think it will have long term health issues is because our bodies are designed to do different things at different times of the year. For example, it would not make sense on the Keto diet for the body to fully repair and/or rebuild accumulated damage in the body in the "winter" (on the Keto diet). That would use extra energy when you need to be saving it to ensure you have enough to get through the winter.

What biological processes that contribute to our health have come to rely upon the cycle of seasons and the macronutrients that those seasons enforce on us? I am skeptical that there are none. Which is why doing Keto for 6 months, or a year or five might look "healthy", but that in longer timeframes the body will start to suffer from the lack of the other "cycles".

#18 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 10:23 AM | Reply

Fruits and vegetables and whole grains and beans and legumes and seeds? Yes. Eat up.

#17 | POSTED BY JPW

Not on the KETO diet. No fruit sugars either. They can't eat peanuts and I love peanut butter and jelly.

Which is why I don't like it. I don't eat enough fruit and vegetables as it is.

I do like the "tone" of the KETO diet. If you need to diet medically the keto diet is not a bad one.

Definitely Cut down on the sugars. Don't eat so much sugar.

Everything in moderation. It's not rocket science.

#19 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 11:08 AM | Reply

To me, what makes the most sense is what my brother-in-law calls "the caveman diet".

#20 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 11:13 AM | Reply

my brother-in-law calls "the caveman diet".

You're thinking of Paleo, not Keto.

Paleo is the diet where you eat the foods that were around during the Paleolithic era, "caveman diet".

Keto is when you eat high concentrations of fats and proteins causing ketosis.

#21 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-11-20 11:35 AM | Reply

#19 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Maybe I was reading it wrong, but I thought you could have nuts/peanut butter and any fruit called berry... Strawberry, blueberry, etc. I was just considering it short term because it would be nice to lose 20 pounds left over from having kids. Jelly would be out unless you get sugar free, same with syrups, etc. Maybe I just want low carb and not keto... Still looking into it all.

I will also look into the Caveman diet mentioned here, maybe called paleo. We will see :)

#22 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-20 11:41 AM | Reply

Not on the KETO diet. No fruit sugars either.

I was referring to eating in general.

Sugar gets a bad rap because our comparison is garbage SAD foods that are loaded with corn syrup and simple, processed sugars.

Complex carbs and sugars from unprocessed foods aren't the problem.

Everything in moderation. It's not rocket science.

#19 | Posted by donnerboy

I watched a documentary on Netflix a few days ago that eviscerates this common phrase in diet in that eating crap food, even in moderation, is doing to have detrimental effects. The numbers they gave were something like an extra 168 calories a day can lead to an overweight individual over the span of 10 years (IIRC). And that nobody calibrates their diets well enough to account for that small of a difference.

It's important to consistently eat foods that give quality, balanced nutrition. Something that most fad diets don't seem to push.

My current diet is based on the Whole30 diet. Found true Whole30 to be way to restrictive and I was always hungry. However, since I wasn't trying to lose weight but healthy, I added back some stuff that was verboten (ie rice and legumes) and have found it to be a perfect dietary guideline for me that also makes for easy meals that are cooked pretty quickly.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-20 12:40 PM | Reply

The problem with fad diets is they usually aren't sustainable.

I had success with Weight Watchers - lost 58 pounds over the course of a year. When I stopped tracking I put 15 pounds back on in a few months. I then instituted a bit more discipline and took about 10 of those pounds back off. I've been fluctuating in a 4 pound range for months now. I'm still about 20 pounds heavier than I want to be and haven't had the self-discipline to take that weight off. However I've been disciplined enough to stay in my current range which isn't an ideal weight, but it's not terrible either.

For me, what works is what I can manage long-term, which includes an occasional indulgence.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 12:49 PM | Reply

Strength training is where it's at.

#25 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-20 11:22 PM | Reply

"I watched a documentary on Netflix a few days ago that eviscerates this common phrase in diet in that eating crap food, even in moderation, is doing to have detrimental effects. The numbers they gave were something like an extra 168 calories a day can lead to an overweight individual over the span of 10 years (IIRC). And that nobody calibrates their diets well enough to account for that small of a difference."

yeah. And they are probably right. detrimental is detrimental even a little!

but I remember how sometimes a nasty old Big Mac really hit the spot! and still at 6' and 187lbs ok? and old as my tongue and older than my teeth and I still have them!

Anywho...the philosophy is for more than just eating...and it's actually "Everything in Moderation INCLUDING MODERATION."

So we can get too extreme or obsessive about moderation itself, and that isn't healthy either!

REGARDLESS.

Life is tough sometimes and we are lucky to survive it at all! So it is ok to have fun and actually enjoy life and splurge a little sometimes ... at least that is what Oscar Wilde and I think!

#26 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-21 11:11 AM | Reply

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