Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, November 20, 2019

Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, will testify before the House Intelligence Committee as part of the impeachment inquiry on Wednesday morning, starting at 9 a.m. Sondland was instrumental in carrying out the pressure campaign to get Ukraine to open investigations to benefit President Trump politically.

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His opening statement portends the end of Trump's presidency. He admits working directly at Trump's behest and states directly that the scheme was a quid pro quo.

Today will go down in history.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-20 09:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is big one, Elizabeth! I'm coming to join you, darling!

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-20 09:04 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sondland: "Mr. Giuliani's requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a White House visit for President Zelensky...Mr. Giuliani was expressing the desires of the President of the United States, and we knew that these investigations were important to the President.

There was no secret regarding moving forward with the discussion of investigations..Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret...Again, everyone was in the loop.

We weren't happy with the President's directive to talk with Rudy. We did not want to involve Mr. Giuliani. I believed then, as I do now, that the men and women of the State Dept, not the president's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for Ukraine matters.

I later came to believe that the resumption of security aid would not occur until there was a public statement from Ukraine committing to the investigations of the 2016 election and Burisma, as Mr. Giuliani has demanded."

#3 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 09:08 AM | Reply

I guess he decided it isn't worth going to prison for this flaming bag of ---- some people call a "president."

#4 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 09:08 AM | Reply

Mmmmph..Mmmmph...

nom..nom.nommmmmm....

This nothing breakfast biscuit is good...

#5 | Posted by boaz at 2019-11-20 09:09 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

#5 See #3

#6 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 09:18 AM | Reply

Bus in ditch, wheels off.

#7 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-11-20 09:20 AM | Reply

All the bomb shells have turned out to be duds so far, I doubt anything will occur today which will change this record. The Shiff show is falling apart. Is Shiff a closet Trump supporter? He is certainly doing a good job increasing Trump's support. These hearing are tiresome, dull, providing no evidence of a crime. I don't like the damn Yankee, but they are going to have to produce more than something like the Nuller Report 2.0. Ferret face looks like a jerk, a bully and a hard core partition- hell, he makes Trump look like a gentleman, which is a serious accomplishment.

#8 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-11-20 09:25 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#5 seems a bit unconvincing...

#9 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-11-20 09:31 AM | Reply

There is nothing that can come out in these hearings that conservatives will find impeachable. Actually there is nothing Trump could actually DO that conservatives would find impeachable.

"Portends the end of Trump's presidency"? Not likely. I think there is a zero percent chance that Trump will resign. And an even lower chance that Republicans would have the balls to do what is right if it is contrary to their base (see statement above). I think the "end of Trump's presidency" will come in November of next year. If you think this "portends" that, then I won't disagree.

#10 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 09:39 AM | Reply

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It's as if the righties here think that if they post a meaningless comment here they are actually negating the truth of the testimony. IMHO, they are just damaging their own credibility here on all other topics. The truth is that no matter what comes out in the hearings your defense of Trump will stay exactly the same. Have to ask you though, what does that make you? It makes you sychophantic ass kissers who don't even care if the President tried to use military aid for a country being invaded by Russia as a tool to benefit himself politically. I'd be embarrassed to my core to have to admit that to myself. Trump's defenders are beneath contempt.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 09:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

To conservatives, is that ANYTHING that you can think of that would be "impeachable" for a Republican president, and would also in your mind justify removal?

Based upon the moral fiber being shown by conservatives now, I believe that the only reason that Nixon did not finish out his term was because he resigned. If he had stuck it out (ignored Goldwater) I feel confident at this point that conservatives in the Senate would not have removed him.

#12 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 09:44 AM | Reply

This nothing breakfast biscuit is good...

#5 | POSTED BY BOAZ

It is amazing you still call this nothing. If it had been Hilary you would have have a stroke already.

#13 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-20 09:48 AM | Reply

It is amazing you still call this nothing. If it had been Hilary you would have have a stroke already.

#13 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

Maybe he did. Would explain his inability to perceive events happening right in front of him.

#14 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 09:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 8

#12 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL

They refuse to draw a line in the sand because they cant take that back and make further excuses. It is why Jeff stayed on the fence, so he never has to call his side out. Good luck getting them to stand up for anything against the GOP.

#15 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-20 09:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Was it a quid-pro-quo when Nancy Pelosi paid off 12 Dems to support the ACA law in 2010? Was it a quid-pro-quo when Nancy Pelosi said to the world NOT one penny will be given to Pres trump for the border wall until Trump gives her what she wants? Was it a quid-pro-quo every time Pres Obama and now Pres Trump caves in just to get a budget passed or extended so that the federal gov't doesn't shut down?

Of course those and nearly everything done in politics is a quid-pro-quo.

What Pres Trump did was a PRO-BONO.

The Ukrain gov't got the $400Million in aid and the Javelins for doing NO investigations. The Ukrains got something for doing nothing. That my friends is a Pro-Bono.

The Dems know this. The liberal diplomats know this. The media knows this. AND the Repubs know this.

This INQUISITION is NOT an impeachment hearing. Dems know a conviction will not occur. This is a public lynching by the Dems of Pres Trump's reputation doing their best to hurt the Pres in the 2020 election.

I am piss_ed and I can the Dems this will not work. I could never vote for another Dem ..., ever.

#16 | Posted by SJHamilton at 2019-11-20 09:56 AM | Reply | Funny: 4 | Newsworthy 2

Did Mr Vindeman testify yet?

I was supposed to be moved......

#17 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:02 AM | Reply

If it had been Hilary you would have have a stroke already.

Unlikely we know what she's done, and its way more than Trump can ever dream of, and I am still here.

#18 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:03 AM | Reply

Good luck getting them to stand up for anything against the GOP.

I'll stand up to the spineless GOP. But Trump is a winner ... he isn't the GOP.

Not to fear Liberals once Trump is done in 5 years, the Republicans are finished, because Liberals have destroyed the place.

#19 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Quid Pro Quo....Yes!"

Ambassador Sondland

#20 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 10:06 AM | Reply


Re #16

What Pres Trump did was a QUID PRO-BONO.

The Ukrain gov't got the $400Million in aid and the Javelins for doing NO investigations because Humpy got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Otherwise, the "deliverables" would already be delivered.

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 10:06 AM | Reply

"I'll stand up to the spineless GOP. But Trump is a winner ... he isn't the GOP."

You're full of crap. He was the Republican nominee for President and he is now depending on the Republicans in the Senate to allow him to commit crimes with impunity. You own that.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 10:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

The second phase of "testing" is waiting for Fat Nixon at Walter Reed.

#23 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-11-20 10:09 AM | Reply

"But Trump is a winner ... he isn't the GOP. "

LOL

I can see it will be a long recovery for you.

Hope you get better soon.

We are here to help you if we can.

#24 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 10:09 AM | Reply

But Trump is a winner ... he isn't the GOP.

Hardy har har.

#25 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-11-20 10:09 AM | Reply

"I know that members of this committee have frequently framed these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a quid pro quo?' With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes."

--- Amb Sondland

#26 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 10:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Everyone was in the loop"

Cue the rage tweeting.

How's Fat Nixon going to play a man that gave $1,000,000 to elect him as a "Never Trumper"?

#27 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-11-20 10:11 AM | Reply

"Secretary Perry, Ambassador Volker and I worked with Mr. Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of the United States. We did not want to work with Mr. Giuliani. Simply put, we were playing the hand we were dealt, we followed the president's orders."

--- Amb Sondland

#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 10:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#28 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Pretty damning ... lucky he still had a job ... Obama fired everyone his first day, Machiavelli like.

#29 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Rep. @EliseStefanik: "No Quid Pro Quo?"

Morrison: "Correct."

"No Bribery?"

"Correct."

"No Extortion?"

"Correct."

Are we done here?

#30 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:22 AM | Reply | Funny: 4

Trump should understand at this point that having Rudy Giuliani as his personal lawyer and allowing him to negotiate foreign policy was, not only illegal, but stupid. Mr. Giuliani should expect to be hit by a bus very soon.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 10:23 AM | Reply

"Are we done here?"

I'm still listening so obviously we are not done here. Y'all want us to be done, you didn't want there to be a hearing, the crimes committed were to be considered business as usual. Obviously not.

#32 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 10:24 AM | Reply

Are we done here?

#30 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Not even close.

Patience Grasshopper.

#33 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 10:26 AM | Reply

Are we done here?

No.

One Trump sycophant who held a position for four months and is not a criminal lawyer doesn't get to decide what is and is not extortion or bribery. Listen to all witnesses and take their testimony as a whole instead of cherrypicking what you find useful to your cause.

#34 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 10:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#30 ... Are we done here?

Not really.

For starters, the entire sentence needs to be quoted, the full sentences. Quick excerpted phrases lose context, and can be used to convey the wrong meaning.

#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 10:31 AM | Reply

"But Trump is a winner ... " - #19 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:05 AM

Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy, Senator Roy Moore, Govenors Matt Bevin and Eddie Rispone, and the entire GOP delegation to the Virginia General Assembly completely agree with you.

#36 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 10:32 AM | Reply

I know that members of this committee have frequently framed these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a quid pro quo?' With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes."
--- Amb Sondland

So Qpq for a meeting is now imeachable? L

#34 | POSTED BY JOE

Joe say it isn't so, tell me Mr Vindeman wasn't the best you had.

You said wait for it, I waited ...

Still I see a big nothing-burger .... tell me .. please tell me you got more than this.

#37 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:32 AM | Reply

For starters, the entire sentence needs to be quoted, the full sentences. Quick excerpted phrases lose context, and can be used to convey the wrong meaning. ~ LampLighter

Quote away Lampy my friend, quote away RCade won't mind.

Please put pertinent parts in bold.

#38 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:33 AM | Reply

"Still I see a big nothing-burger .... " - #37 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:32 AM

Unless you're one of the 435 members of the US House of Representatives it doesn't matter what you see or what you don't see.

#39 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 10:33 AM | Reply

Not to fear Liberals once Trump is done in 5 years, the Republicans are finished, because Liberals have destroyed the place.

#19 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2019-11-20 10:05 AM | REPLY: EYE ROLL

Ya see... this is the kind of stupid we libs live for. We need not life a finger ... it's far easier to watch you twist in the wind all tattered and torn.

You talk up clowns as being so powerful with God on their side etc etc etc and yet the way you see it ... in your fantasy of the future... even though Trumplethinskin retains his office we still manage to "destroy the place" while the big orange bloat was in charge and taking care of things. Doesn't sound like you have much faith in his skills as a negotiator. let alone a leader... but it does sound very Trumplethinskin like... you know.... blame everything on everyone else but the pig brain republicl0wns.

Nixon, Bush and now Trump... you people are stupid. You don't get to lay this on us.

#40 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2019-11-20 10:34 AM | Reply

Pretty damning ... lucky he still had a job ... Obama fired everyone his first day, Machiavelli like.

#29 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Are you talking about Sondland? Because he didn't work under Obama. He was appointed by Trump after Trump was elected. Sondlan bought his ambassadorship with his $1,000,000 donation to Trump's campaign.

#41 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 10:36 AM | Reply

Trump should understand at this point that having Rudy Giuliani as his personal lawyer and allowing him to negotiate foreign policy was, not only illegal...

#31 | POSTED BY DANNI A

How is it illegal?

#42 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 10:37 AM | Reply

"Liberals have destroyed the place."

Which you've admitted you're all for, as long as you get more tax cuts. Don't pretend now.

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-20 10:39 AM | Reply

"Not to fear Liberals once Trump is done in 5 years, the Republicans are finished, because Liberals have destroyed the place." - #19 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-20 10:05 AM

How quickly many forget...

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job
11/04/08 11:30PM

WASHINGTON | African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this country, a black man still can't catch a break."

#44 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 10:44 AM | Reply

"Still I see a big nothing-burger .... tell me .. please tell me you got more than this."

You see only what you want to see.

"Trump should understand at this point that having Rudy Giuliani as his personal lawyer and allowing him to negotiate foreign policy was, not only illegal..."

"18 U.S. Code 953.Private correspondence with foreign governments"

"Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects."

www.law.cornell.edu

#45 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 10:46 AM | Reply

Well, she's going to go through some things

I would like you to do us a favor though

when I decided to just do it, I said to myself"I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story

When you're a star, they let you do it

Russia, if you're listening

we fell in love...he wrote me beautiful letters

It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to Miami international airport, has tremendous ballrooms and meeting rooms, and each delegation would have...its own 50 to 70 unit building

nobody has directly pointed a finger [at MBS]

Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool! I will call you later.

I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today

When Mexico sends its people . . .

very fine people, on both sides

truly the enemy of the people

by the way, likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens

who, by the way, are no angels

The Baltimore house of Elijah Cummings was robbed. Too bad!

You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? With spies and treason, right?

Trade wars are good and easy to win

most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen"and President Xi was enjoying it [as the missiles struck]

The law's totally on my side, the president can't have a conflict of interest

[NATO is] obsolete

when you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally, which should happen, you have to take the children away.

any guy that can do a body slam, he's my kind of " he's my guy

you can take the hand away

There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?

If you defend this POS you put party over country, plain and simple.

#46 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 10:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Still I see a big nothing-burger .... tell me .. please tell me you got more than this.

#37 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Still waiting for Humpy to shoot someone on 5th ave before you declare Humpy a criminal are ya?

Some of us don't need more evidence.

There are mountains already!

Bribery extortion obstruction of justice and witness intimidation and abuse of power are plenty for me!

I am all full up with Humpy's Corruption.

I can't eat another bite!

#47 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 10:49 AM | Reply

"Not to fear Liberals once Trump is done in 5 years, the Republicans are finished, because Liberals have destroyed the place."

Hilarious. We now hold one house of Congress while conservatives control the Senate, the Presidency and the SC. Why do you post such nonsense, just makes you look delusional.

"So now they are trying to cover up the voices too."

drudge.com

#48 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-20 10:50 AM | Reply

Sondland has set the White House on fire. Sondland has tied it all together and was in direct communication with Trump as well as other top officials in the White House.
Was there a QPQ - Yes, both the aid and the White House meeting were both conditional on a public announcement of Ukraine opening the investigations that Trump wanted.
Who gave the orders? Trump as relayed to Sondland through Giuliani
Reasonable explanation for freezing aid? None
Were the Ukrainians aware the aid was freezed before the Sep 1 meeting? Yes and Sondland has emails documenting his communications with Pompeo that the aid was at risk if Ukraine did not make a public announcement of an investigation.
Did the restaurant conversation occur as others have testified? While his recollection isn't clear on his wording, Yes the call happened and he does not dispute the substance of it.

#49 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2019-11-20 10:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#38 ... Quote away Lampy my friend, quote away RCade won't mind. ...

Perhaps later, I want to pay attention to today's proceedings.

#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 10:52 AM | Reply

#49 Agreed but as you can see in this thread, it won't make a lock of difference to Republicans.

I'd reiterate GTbritishskull's question for Trumpers. Can any of you name a single thing Trump could do that would warrant impeachment?

#51 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 10:53 AM | Reply

"He had to announce the investigations. He didn't actually have to do them, as I understood it." - Sondland.

Wow.

INVESTIGATING "corruption" is not important. Just putting out the press release that tars Trump's political opponent.

Conservatives, thoughts? Impeachable???

#52 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'd reiterate GTbritishskull's question for Trumpers. Can any of you name a single thing Trump could do that would warrant impeachment?

#51 | POSTED BY JOE

Definitely not shooting someone on 5th ave. Especially if it was a liberal Democrat.

They are not even Americans!

These rage roid folks are so ate up inside. They have gone to the Dark Side and sold their souls for a "win" against liberals.

Are you all enjoying all this "winning" yet?

Your impeachment prize is waiting for you at the finish line.

#53 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 10:59 AM | Reply

"INVESTIGATING "corruption" is not important. Just putting out the press release that tars Trump's political opponent."

Ummmm. Let's see I got this!

"That's how we always do it? "

And.

"Get over it?"

#54 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 11:01 AM | Reply

@#38 There's a bit of a lull...

Here's the a more complete transcript of what you excerpted..

..."I wanted to start between the July 25 call between President Trump and President Zelensky," Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) began. "Mr. Morrison, you were on that call and there was no mention of withholding aid on the call, correct?"

"That is correct, Congresswoman," Morrison responded.

"And there was no quid pro quo, correct?" Stefanik asked.

"Correct," Morrison responded.

"No bribery?" Stefanik responded.

"Correct," Morrison responded.

"No extortion?" Stefanik asked.

"Correct," Morrison responded....


All Mr Morrison is saying is that he recalled there was no mention of those things on the call, not that they did not exist.

That is why context is important.


That one, btw, didn't even earn a Nice Try for you.

#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 11:08 AM | Reply

There can't be much more room under the bus.

#56 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-11-20 11:12 AM | Reply

Ken Starr on Fox: "This obviously has been one of those bombshell days."

#57 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-11-20 11:25 AM | Reply

Game over bitches. A percipient witness and confidante of Trump just confirmed that it was Trump demanding the QPQ. Dance around this one. You can't. The only question remaining is whether this criminal act merits removal from office.

#58 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-11-20 11:25 AM | Reply

I know Makris is trying, but his posts lack pazazz.

#59 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-11-20 11:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

just confirmed that it was Trump demanding the QPQ.

#58 | POSTED BY MODER8

Actually, my understanding is that he very carefully did NOT say that Trump demanded a QPQ. He said that Giuliani demanded a QPQ, and that Trump told Sondland to listen to Giuliani. And that Sondland ASSUMED it came from Trump but did not KNOW whether it came "directly" from Trump.

There is a gigantic bus being built and being pointed "directly" at Rudy. But, Rudy says he has good insurance, so...

*eats another handful of popcorn*

#60 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-11-20 11:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Chris Wallace: Sondland "took out the bus and ran it over President Trump, Vice President Pence, Mike Pompeo, John Bolton, Rudy Giuliani, Mick Mulvaney. He implicates all of them."

#61 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 11:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Listen to all witnesses and take their testimony as a whole instead of cherrypicking what you find useful to your cause.

#34 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-11-20 10:28 AM

Bears repeating, but your later posts seem to contradict your own, very sound advice.

#62 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-20 11:45 AM | Reply

Booazi must be full up on those nothing biscuits

#63 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-11-20 11:45 AM | Reply

He just destroyed the last of the
poorly concealed corruption of this
illegitimate Presidency...
Drain the Swamp....flush this corrupt
Administration.

#64 | Posted by earthmuse at 2019-11-20 11:49 AM | Reply

I don't trust Starr either, so I'm wondering, what's the catch?:

Tom Watson @tomwatson

Wow, Ken Starr making a strong case for obstruction and contempt of Congress charges on Fox right now. Cites Nixon. Says he's changed his mind on these proceedings. "It's over. There will be articles on impeachment."

Starr added that Trump may have "covered himself" on the quid pro quo, but believes the other charges are now substantive and believes charges are being drawn up. To be clear, I'm citing Starr only as example of what even Trumpian outlets are now carrying live.

(I wouldn't trust Starr as far as I could throw him, but he's undoubtedly at the center of Republican impeachment thinking. Trump lost some folks today. They wouldn't vote to convict, but they also see impeachment happening, based on testimony).

#65 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 11:54 AM | Reply

#62 There is only one reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from the totality of the testimony to date. If you can't get there, that's your problem.

#66 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 11:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The only thing fun about all this is watching the Trump-Humpers try to defend that orange ------- in the White House. That can't be easy, but it sure is amusing to the majority of Americans.

#67 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2019-11-20 12:01 PM | Reply

#66

Last time I checked, all the witnesses hadn't testified.

But if you don't want to heed your own advice, go nuts.

#68 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-20 12:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is Mitch McConnell picking out the tie he's going to wear for the press conference after he goes to the White House to have "the talk" with the president?

I would like to thank the Repubican Party for allowing Castor to continue building the case against the president. He's doing a great job burying Drumpf.

#69 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 12:07 PM | Reply

#65

As I have said since March, Obstruction is their best path, but the Majority is going to have to pivot really soon otherwise it is going to look like a fallback when it should have been their primary focus.

#70 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-20 12:08 PM | Reply

#69

If it comes to that point for the GOP, it will be Romney and I guarantee you he has already picked out his entire outfit.

#71 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-20 12:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#68 The only people who have changed their testimony from that which has already been released have changed it to more negatively affect the Trump administration. I look forward to your well-reasoned conclusion next week.

#72 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 12:12 PM | Reply

- All Mr Morrison is saying is that he recalled there was no mention of those things on the call, not that they did not exist.

This has been the GOP questioning tact all along; if they didn't say the word "bribery", then what they did say was not bribery!

Well, that and saying that, yeah, Trump did that, but it doesn't matter.

And they are right, to Trump's lemmings the Constitution doesn't matter.

#73 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:13 PM | Reply

#68 The only people who have changed their testimony from that which has already been released have changed it to more negatively affect the Trump administration. I look forward to your well-reasoned conclusion next week.

#72 | POSTED BY JOE

Which doesn't change the fact that not all witnesses have testified.

This bears repeating:

Listen to all witnesses and take their testimony as a whole instead of cherrypicking what you find useful to your cause.

#34 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2019-11-20 10:28 AM

You're contradicting yourself.

#74 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Last time I checked, all the witnesses hadn't testified.

Goldman just got it in the record that Mulvaney, Blair, Perry and Pompeo, who have all refused to come forward to testify, are all key witnesses that could shed light on this issue. Their refusal to appear is clearly because they have exculpatory information, lol. Keep reaching for the stars!

#75 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Hey Jeff.

---- off.

#76 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-20 12:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Thanks, Joe.

#77 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 12:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Of course, Trump denied there was a qui pro quo or and never used the term bribery. Michael Cohen on how Trump operates:

Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That's not how he operates.

In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time I was actively negotiating in Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and tell me there's no business in Russia and then go out and lie to the American people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was telling me to lie.

www.cnbc.com

#78 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 12:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So... Trump just tweeted that he has never met Rudy G.

#79 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 4

www.axios.com (Nov 17, 2019)

... Trump told reporters at the White House that he "hardly [knows]" Sondland, who donated $1 million to Trump's inaugural committee....

#80 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 12:26 PM | Reply

It couldn't be clearer. When Trump told Sondland there was no qui pro quo, he was doing what he has always done and trusting Sondland would get the message:

Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That's not how he operates.

In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time I was actively negotiating in Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and tell me there's no business in Russia and then go out and lie to the American people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was telling me to lie.

#81 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 12:27 PM | Reply

From twitter:

twitter.com


Kevin McCarthy
Verified account @GOPLeader

Case closed Ambassador Sondland just testified under oath that he NEVER heard the president say there were conditions on aid to Ukraine.

Democrats' smear campaign is falling apart.
8:47 AM - 20 Nov 2019


twitter.com

Steve Scalise
Verified account @SteveScalise

BREAKING ' Ambassador Sondland: "I don't recall President Trump ever talking to me about any security assistance. Ever."

End this sham.
8:45 AM - 20 Nov 2019


twitter.com

...
Mark Meadows
Verified account @RepMarkMeadows

What this "bombshell" hearing is amounting to:

- Another witness who never heard anything from the President

- Reached a nefarious conclusion on his own

- Is contradicted by witnesses who actually DID get directives from the President
8:51 AM - 20 Nov 2019 ...


#82 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 12:30 PM | Reply

Sondland appears to be feeling better and better every time he answers a question. He is trying really hard to stay out of jail, and is actually enjoying the moment. He is driving the bus that is plowing through the Repubicans on this. He is burning them all, getting the most bang for that million bucks, I guess.

#83 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 12:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#82

A lot has changed since A:51 AM, EST.

#84 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-20 12:36 PM | Reply

#82

Hahahahahahahahaha

Of course that's their position. Orange Furious didn't ever use the term, "quid pro quo" before, either. He's got the vocabulary of a 4th grader.

#85 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 12:36 PM | Reply

- getting the most bang for that million bucks, I guess.

That's really the funny part; guy buys himself an Ambassador's title for a cool mil... and now he'll be painted as a Trump hating Never Trumper.

#86 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

How about if Melania took Flava Flav for a boyfriend then the Repubicans would impeach da rump.

#87 | Posted by grumpy_too at 2019-11-20 12:37 PM | Reply

#82

A lot has changed since 8:51 AM, EST.

#88 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-20 12:37 PM | Reply

Devin Nunes is talking again, and all I can hear cows mooing.

#89 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 12:42 PM | Reply

@#84 ... A lot has changed since 8:51 AM, EST. ...

Oh I agree. That's why I posted those tweets.

Now, after the testimony, it will be easy to assess if there's been a change of opinion.

Frankly, I'm not really expecting a major change. The path out of the corner they have painted themselves in is vanishing with each passing hour...

#90 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 12:44 PM | Reply

Just because you say it, doesn't make it so:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican's rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public....

....to see. Importantly, Ambassador Sondland's tweet, which few report, stated, "I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo's of any kind." That says it ALL!
6:23 AM - 8 Oct 2019

#91 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 12:45 PM | Reply

Nunes is a joke... and I doubt that Donald is laughing at his performance here.

Then again, he doesn't have much to werk with... Watergate? Secret testimony?

Yeah, right.

#92 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:45 PM | Reply

@#86 ... guy buys himself an Ambassador's title for a cool mil. ...

Ambassador to the EU, not Ukraine.

Ukraine is not a part of the EU.

So why was Amb Sondland spending so much time in Ukraine and working on Ukraine issues?

At least the answer to that question is becoming more apparent.

#93 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 12:46 PM | Reply

His opening statement portends the end of Trump's presidency. He admits working directly at Trump's behest and states directly that the scheme was a quid pro quo.

Today will go down in history.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma

Yeah, as the day the GOP finally proved once and for all that they're party before country and that anybody who disagrees with them is simply a never Trumper who's angry Hillary lost.

It will get nowhere as the Senate has already decided they won't vote to remove Trump and the states have already decided they won't allow anybody to challenge Trump.

#94 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-20 12:47 PM | Reply

Ya know... its not unusual for people to think that not verbally stating incriminating intent that somehow makes makes it all a "misunderstanding"... its a -------- business technique... used to get under the counter and off the books goods and services....

#95 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2019-11-20 12:47 PM | Reply

lol... "I'll try not to use all of this time."

aka, I got nuthin!

#96 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:48 PM | Reply

Trump's shifting story on his relationship with Gordon Sondland
www.axios.com

...
Trump tweeted last month that Sondland was "a really good man and great American" who he would love to see testify before the impeachment inquiry.

Trump then said earlier this month " after Sondland revised his closed-door impeachment testimony to be more damaging to the president " that he "hardly [knows]" Sondland but added that "this is the man who said there was no quid pro quo."

Today, as Sondland testified before the House Intelligence Committee, Trump said, "I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though."



#97 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 12:49 PM | Reply

Nixon impeachment: I am not a crook!

Clinton impeachment: I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky!

Trump impeachment: I did not demand a quid pro quo from that Ukrainian, President Zelensky!

#98 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 12:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Yeah, see no one could imagine that Trump was obfuscating, lying, and misdirecting when he said, "I want nothing!".

As we find out in other direct sworn testimony, he wanted something very specific in exchange for US aide dollars; dirt on Biden.

#99 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:54 PM | Reply

lol.... it's "surprising" to the Amb that Trump didn't spell out the dirt on Biden part of "investigations"?

Uh-huh.

Almost all these witnesses are Trumpers who are being forced to tell the truth under oath by Dems and being allowed to spin their bias to GOPhers.

#100 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 12:58 PM | Reply

Trump: I want nothing! Well, maybe one little favor though. . . .

#101 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

How about if trump hired some terrorists to blow up something, the Rs would impeach him for that? Nah, he's already doing more destructive stuff and getting away with it.

#102 | Posted by grumpy_too at 2019-11-20 01:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Saying "I dont want a quid pro quo" and then demanding something in exchange for something else is like saying "this is not a robbery" while pointing a gun at someone and demanding their wallet.

#103 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 01:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

GOP lawyer needs to stop asking questions while he is ahead. Amb is arguing that yes, the email was about not generic investigations, but about Biden and Barisma.

#104 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 01:03 PM | Reply

Giuliani tweets (though it looks to have been quickly deleted):

www.theguardian.com

...

Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani)

I came into this at Volker's request. Sondland is speculating based on VERY little contact. I never met him and had very few calls with him, mostly with Volker.

Volker testified I answered their questions and described them as my opinions, NOT demands. I.E., no quid pro quo!
November 20, 2019


#105 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 01:05 PM | Reply

@#105

Looks like a scuffle is developing under the bus...

#106 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 01:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#104 ... GOP lawyer needs to stop asking questions while he is ahead. ...

Yeah, I'm scratching my head here, wonder what is the goal of his line of questioning?

#107 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 01:07 PM | Reply

- described them as my opinions, NOT demands. I.E., no quid pro quo!

Of course he did. Even Rudy has heard of plausible deniability.

Fortunately we have the sworn testimony of others who heard the quid pro quo demands from Trump himself.

#108 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 01:08 PM | Reply

"Everyone was in the loop, it was no secret."

Meaning that the Trump officials that he won't let testify, including Sec Pompeo, were well aware of Trump's bribery.

#109 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 01:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#103 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Credit is where it's due. Your analogies are pretty good.

#110 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 01:19 PM | Reply

www.bloomberg.com

...Perry Aide Says Sondland Misrepresented Role (1:05 p.m.)

Energy Secretary Rick Perry's press secretary said Sondland "misrepresented" Perry's interactions with Rudy Giuliani and the secretary's instructions from Trump.

"Secretary Perry spoke to Rudy Giuliani only once at the president's request," aide Shaylyn Hynes said in a statement. "No one else was on that call. At no point before, during or after that phone call did the words Biden' or Burisma' ever come up in the presence of Secretary Perry."...



The scuffle under the bus continues.

Amb Sondland must be hitting some nerves...

#111 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 01:26 PM | Reply

Harry Litman @harrylitman

Nice point by @mayawiley on @MSNBC . Sondland asks open ended question and it's Trump who raises"by intoning a denial of"quid pro quo. Like a child who blurts out I didn't eat the cookies when parent didn't mention cookies.

#112 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 01:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Donald does not even know how to do bribery right if all he wanted was political dirt; he should have gotten a kickback also. What happened to all that money, did Ukraine receive it all and where did it go after they got it? Upcoming tweet: "no kickback, no bribery."

As if that would be exculpatory, especially in light of his yuge emoluments.

#113 | Posted by grumpy_too at 2019-11-20 01:31 PM | Reply

I think Trump really thinks that if Trump says there was no quid pro quo, that makes it true.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 01:32 PM | Reply

Plausible deniability is why Trump had his personal attny (and glam transvestite impersonator) Rudy G. running interference for him.

No direct orders on this came from Trump, they came from Rudy G. And in some cases early on to people who only later learned that "investigations" included dirt on Biden.

Which is the ONLY reason the GOP attny has any questions to ask at all.

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 01:32 PM | Reply

#111 If Perry has a different story to tell, he should come in and tell in under oath. Until then, pffft!

#116 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ted Lieu @tedlieu

Counsel for minority helpfully brought up that other companies, like Ukranian company Naftogaz, came up in discussions about corruption. Sondland ageed.

Yet the Ukranians were asked to only investigate 1 company, Burisma, in exchange for White House meeting. Why? To smear Biden.

#117 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 01:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What Lindsey Graham said about a quid pro quo in October
www.axios.com


"If you could show me that Trump actually was engaging in a quid pro quo, outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing"

-- Graham in October on "Axios on HBO"...


#118 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 01:46 PM | Reply

Worth a read:

Bryan Gividen @BryanGividen

I am a pro-religious liberty, pro-life, would snort Cocaine Mitch's judicial confirmations if I could, kind of conservative.

I will explain exactly once why conservatives should support impeachment based on what is publicly available and undisputed.

twitter.com

#119 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 01:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Not the way you present it."

lmao... it was nefarious only when you add that Rudy had been demanding a quid pro quo as Trump's messenger at the time.

#120 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 01:49 PM | Reply

"The scuffle under the bus continues."

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

Republican lawyer doesn't do his own research and preparation, and is instead picking up Democrat lies, shame.

Allow me to inform him: I have NO financial interests in Ukraine, NONE! I would appreciate his apology.
10:44 AM - 20 Nov 2019

#121 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-11-20 01:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

As Gym Jordan hammers Sondland for not providing exculpatory evidence in his opening statement, referee files lawsuit against Jordan for ignoring abuse accusations.

sports.yahoo.com

#122 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bribery includes "offering" and doesn't require the actual transaction... despite Jordan's colorful rant.

#123 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 02:03 PM | Reply

"The Pres directed us to work with Mr Rudy G and the State Dept and the NSC knew it."

Rudy was Trump's mouthpiece on this.

#124 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 02:04 PM | Reply

From link in #119:

So it is absolutely clear what we are talking about: the President used hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money as a bargaining chip to make a foreign country investigate his rivals. That is a textbook play from dictators who are trying to keep power.

"Democrats are just trying to overturn the 2016 election." True that a bunch of Ds would impeach Trump if he had sneezed during the oath of office. But stupidity doesn't excuse stupidity. We're asking whether President should be impeached, not whether Democrats are consistent.

#125 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 02:05 PM | Reply

@#119

You're right, it is worth a read.

This part is significant...

...Don't support impeachment because you like the Democrats.

Support impeachment because you fear that Donald Trump's abuse of the presidency threatens your freedom....


#126 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 02:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

126

NW

#127 | Posted by eberly at 2019-11-20 02:13 PM | Reply

Schiff: "They got caught."

Which is why they had to go ahead and give them the money.

#128 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 02:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#119

That is an example of what "conservatives" who claimed they'd stop supporting POTUS if evidence came out of his wrongdoing are like.

It's the first time I've seen it. Let's hope other patriots jump on the bandwagon. There are a lot of traitors out there, still.

#129 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 02:17 PM | Reply

presume
/pr'z(y)oom/

verb
1.
suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability.

The Amb had every reason to presume the probability of a quid pro quo based on the facts he had and now has.

#130 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 02:19 PM | Reply

We don't, or shouldn't, withhold military aide to an ally at war with Russia for personal political reasons of the President.

#131 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 02:32 PM | Reply

presume
/pr'z(y)oom/
verb
1.
suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability.
The Amb had every reason to presume the probability of a quid pro quo based on the facts he had and now has.
#130 | POSTED BY CORKY

Exactly what I was thinking while Jordan hammered Sondland about having no evidence. Sondland kept reiterating that it was a presumption on his part, as in with all the available context, he made a presumption since there was no available reasoning as to why the aide was withheld. Perfectly normal, common sense thought process. House Republicans are getting caught in the weeds, can't see the forest through the weeds, and all that jazz.

#132 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 02:44 PM | Reply

With Sondland's testimony that all those administration folks who are refusing subpoenas would very likely have pertinent information regarding this matter, obstruction is definitely a very real deal here.

More obstruction, which just so happens to be the one thing House Republicans are ignoring since Trump is doing it in plain sight.

#133 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 02:46 PM | Reply

@#132 ... House Republicans are getting caught in the weeds ....

The Republicans are caught trying to defend what looks more and more like the indefensible.

I've oft mentioned my view that Pres Trump is dragging his supporters lower and lower. Well, we are watching that process occur in real time.

The questions on my mind:

Will Trump supporters ever realize what he is doing to them, how much he is dragging them down, how much he is making them misinform and mislead in order to continue their support for him?

How much Pres Trump is making them commit their loyalty to him, and not the Country and Constitution?



#134 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 02:52 PM | Reply

SO.... Mulvaney publicly admitted all of this on TV.

Nice.

#135 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 02:56 PM | Reply

GOPhers on the Committee are slowly falling into the obvious... that Trump did what he is accused of having done... but that it doesn't matter.

Wonder if they will say that when Trump obstructs justice the way Tricky Dick did by not allowing his people to testify under subpoena as the law allows?

#136 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 03:00 PM | Reply

SO, GOP Jordan admits that early on everyone knew that Rudy was pressuring Pres Z to get dirt on Biden if he wanted the aide, per his meeting with a couple of US Sens.

#137 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 03:08 PM | Reply

For those of you with even the slightest amount of objectivity and functioning brain cells... Do you realize how devastating Sondland's testimony has been to all the lies and talking points that have been being thrown out by the GOP up to this point? Sondland has DIRECTLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY tied Trump to being directly involved with the withholding of aid to Ukraine pending a smear campaign on the Bidens. WOW! This is not something that can be "spun" to those of us out here who understand what it is Sondland actually said.

#138 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-11-20 03:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Not surprising that Boaz has been absent since his biscuit this morning.

#139 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-20 03:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"That's what my wife calls me!"

"the Gordon Problem"

hahaha

#140 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 03:29 PM | Reply

Okay I have an honest question about these hearings. I didn't vote for trump and won't this time, so I hate how this will sound, but I am really curious about the answers:

1) is it okay for the President of the United States to ask for contingencies based upon the issuance of OUR money as aid?

2) is asking For investigations into possibly corrupt business practices involving American citizens, and firing corrupt prosecutors stonewalling said investigations, in America's best interest?

3) let's say Obama is still president and there is a guy, let's call him Grump, is running for president, and his son, let's call him Grump Junior, had been appointed in what appears to be in a corrupt way to a foreign business. Would it be okay for Obama to ask that an investigation be conducted before we turn over our money to the country?

4) is the act of running for president enough to shield you from investigation?

lastly:

5) Do we as Americans not believe that every president every day asks for returns on its 100s of millions of dollars in aid? Is that not WHY we give that aid out? So that we can advance our own self interest at the same time we are helping those countries? I get it that the involvement of Biden's son murky's the water, but does it really mean that Biden's can't be investigated because they are running, and the president may benefit? You still can't release money without contingencies, and that's as pretty good one.

Honestly, if I am missing something about the investigation into Biden's son and he is as pure as the driven snow, and the request is a sham, I am open to hearing about it. But on its face the case seems to raise valid concerns that need to be addressed.

#141 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 03:34 PM | Reply

ABH, requesting policy related concessions in exchange for foreign aid is legitimate and commonplace. Requesting partisan political benefit in exchange for foreign aid is criminal. Make the distinction. Because Trump demanding an investigation by the Ukrainian government of his main political opponent is so far out of bounds as to be borderline absurd. That is why this is such a huge deal.

#142 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-11-20 03:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

"I get it that the involvement of Biden's son murky's the water, but does it really mean that Biden's can't be investigated because they are running, and the president may benefit?"

How about this, just to level the field: Give Biden the same power you believe Trump should have, and let him go after Jared thru Saudi Arabia. Good new policy, right?

#143 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-20 03:39 PM | Reply

Honestly, if I am missing something about the investigation into Biden's son and he is as pure as the driven snow, and the request is a sham, I am open to hearing about it. But on its face the case seems to raise valid concerns that need to be addressed.

#141 | POSTED BY ABH

The investigation had ended. If Ukraine thought there was a reason to re-open the investigation they could very well do that without Trump insisting that they do, and they would not need to publicly announce that they were. Hunter being on the board may not be pure as the driven snow, but there is no evidence of wrong doing and nothing you or I can do about it. The request for a new investigation is a total sham because the grounds for the ask were incorrect from the beginning (not to mention the way it was asked/pressured) and purely a ploy to chant "lock him up" to the crowd as Trump did with Hilary.

#144 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-20 03:45 PM | Reply

@#141 ... I get it that the involvement of Biden's son murky's the water, but does it really mean that Biden's can't be investigated because they are running, and the president may benefit? ...

Another aspect of this that came out today as a result of the Republicans' questioning is that the Bidens apparently were targeted specifically.

The Republicans admitted there was corruption in Ukraine, yet it was the Bidens, the political opponent, who was specifically targeted for investigations.

#145 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 03:47 PM | Reply

"The scuffle under the bus continues."

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

Republican lawyer doesn't do his own research and preparation, and is instead picking up Democrat lies, shame.

Allow me to inform him: I have NO financial interests in Ukraine, NONE! I would appreciate his apology.
10:44 AM - 20 Nov 2019

#121 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2019-11-20 01:55 PM | FLAG:

Looks like someone might be trying to send a message to you, Rudy. Someone has to be the fall guy.

#146 | Posted by cbob at 2019-11-20 03:54 PM | Reply

Trump thought he was above the law before he ever got into the WH.

Who can be surprised that he is even more sure of that as Pres?

#147 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 04:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

142: But that's the rub. His main political opponent. Would the request have been proper if it was any other American citizen? Is the act of his dad running for president enough to shield him from investigation? It seems like everyone is okay with shutting the investigation down. The investigation was scuttled by a prosecutor that has been deemed by the international community to be wildly corrupt. It's not okay to try and revisit that, regardless of whether his dad is running?

I am honestly asking, because all of the information I have seen about the initial investigation is that it was done by someone known to beer horribly corrupt, and his recommendations dubious at best.

#148 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:03 PM | Reply

144: again. The investigation was ended by a horribly corrupt prosecutor. Is it not in our best interest to revisit that after requesting they get rid of the prosecutor?

#149 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:05 PM | Reply

Not surprising that Boaz has been absent since his biscuit this morning.

#139 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

And it was such a wafer thin biscuit of nothing!

They do not even realize how full of corruption they have become.

And it was just a wafer. He probably exploded. Like this guy:

youtu.be

#150 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-20 04:07 PM | Reply

"Would the request have been proper if it was any other American citizen?"

I would surmise to say yes. IOW, this probably wouldn't be nearly as big an issue had it all gone down BEFORE Biden declared his 2020 campaign. Therein lies the proverbial rub.

#151 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 04:08 PM | Reply

Sondland has DIRECTLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY tied Trump to being directly involved with the withholding of aid to Ukraine pending a smear campaign on the Bidens. WOW! This is not something that can be "spun" to those of us out here who understand what it is Sondland actually said.

----

It will be spun as those were his presumptions. It will be spun that his presumptions were incorrect because of his quote saying Trump wanted no quid pro quo. Those spins will work on his base and Republicans will follow suit.

#152 | Posted by Pirate at 2019-11-20 04:08 PM | Reply

ABH, you are missing some of the facts. The Ukrainian government did look into the allegations against Hunter. They concluded there was insufficient evidence of any malfeasance. That should have been the end of it. Instead, at Trump's insistence, the US government tried pressure the Ukrainian government into pursuing a bogus investigation. Hundreds of millions of dollars in what must honestly be deemed bribe money was being dangled in front of their eyes. You can't see the criminally corrupt aspect of all this?

If my son were suspected of malfeasance, was investigated and no charges were filed, I would be flipping furious if an independent party then tried to bribe prosecutors to file charges or then announce a high profile investigation into my son. It is so clearly outrageous that I cannot see what you are honestly not understanding. Especially when funds set aside by the US Congress are the source of bribe money. And especially when the reason the independent wants a continued investigation so badly is just for their own political profit. This should be obvious stuff to you.

#153 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-11-20 04:10 PM | Reply

153. That's fair and why I was asking. It seems like I am missing something. I was under the unless the investigation was conducted and scuttled by the corrupt prosecutor. If there were others involved in the investigation not deemed corrupt, and they concurred with closing the investigation, that's something else. If it was just on the prosecutor and he scuttled it, then the investigation was a sham and it's not improper to revisit it, I wouldn't think.

#154 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:14 PM | Reply

Under the assumption....

#155 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:14 PM | Reply

"Would the request have been proper if it was any other American citizen?"

You mean, if it hadn't been Trump requesting Ukraine to dig up some dirt?
Like, if Bill Gates asked Ukraine to look into Hunter Biden, I don't see a problem there. At least not a problem of this magnitude.

Or do you mean if Trump had asked Ukraine to dig into, I dunno, Wayne Gretzky?
That would still be a problem, since the "ask" is still tied to the quid pro quo of military aid.

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 04:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

The second one is what I meant. If it was another high profile American citizen, and his dad wasn't running for president. Would it be a good use of our political pressure to ask as foreign country to fire a corrupt prosecutor and reopen an investigation that on its face looks like it was closed improperly.

#157 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:19 PM | Reply

It would be an illegal idea.

Can't speak to "good," but it would be illegal.

#158 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 04:20 PM | Reply

ABH, there is a protocol for such investigations, the Treaty with Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters. The president of neither country is the person to initiate the terms of the treaty that falls on the respective attorneys general.

#159 | Posted by et_al at 2019-11-20 04:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Would it be a good use of our political pressure to ask as foreign country to fire a corrupt prosecutor and reopen an investigation that on its face looks like it was closed improperly." - #157 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:19 PM

Which had absolutely nothing to do with Hunter Biden.

#160 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 04:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There are 2 issues here:

1) A request by POTUS for info linking Ukraine to the 2016 election interference carried out by Russia. Invoking CrowdStrike and the DNC server are straight from Kilimnik...basically the Kremlin wants to muddy the waters and claim that 2016 was the Ukrainians, not Russia. Manafort, Kilimnik and Derepaska are all part of that nugget of conspiracy theory obfuscation - and to believe the story would be to deny that the US Intelligence Community is actually working for the US.

2) Everything about Biden is simply so that Drumpf could, on the campaign trail, be able to say the Ukrainians are investigating him. That's it. Super simple. He withheld the military aid to get Zelensky to fabricate an investigation. This is open and shut at this point, so don't try to overthink it.

These 2 points are further evidence that our president is corrupt and also a traitor. Russia owns him, and at this point, Russia owns the GOP. They all hitched their wagons to Agent Orange and have committed to dying on that hill with him.

#161 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 04:24 PM | Reply

But what do you do when the prosecutor in their attorney general office is corrupt? How can you bring weight to bear buy not involving the president.

I am but saying the president wasn't self serving at all, but this seems like a do the right thing and I benefit, more than a do this for me and only me, scenario.

If the investigation was good then yes, open and shut it sitting have been done. I guess I need to know much more about the initial investigation and more about the corrupt prosecutor.

#162 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:27 PM | Reply

...It shouldn't have been done....

Damn phone.

#163 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:29 PM | Reply

160. Not absolutely nothing... Tangential, sure... But not zero.

#164 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:30 PM | Reply

"But what do you do when the prosecutor in their attorney general office is corrupt?"

Our prosecutor?
Don't they all serve at the pleasure of the President?

Ukraine's prosecutor?
That's Ukraine's business.
Now, If our President doesn't like Ukraine's prosecutor, we can try to get Ukraine to make some changes, but there comes a point at which the President engaging in strong arm tactics break the law.

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 04:30 PM | Reply

"But what do you do when the prosecutor in their attorney general office is corrupt? How can you bring weight to bear buy not involving the president." - #162 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:27 PM

Donald Trump ad misleads about Joe Biden, Ukraine and the prosecutor

[snip] Biden did call for Ukraine to fire Shokin, but the ad fails to note that there were widespread calls for his ouster.

Biden assumed a lead role in U.S. diplomacy toward Ukraine after a popular revolution in early 2014 that led to pro-Russia President Viktor Yanukovych fleeing the country. Shokin became top prosecutor in 2015, after Yanukovych went into exile. A frustrated Biden in Dec. 2015 threatened to withhold $1 billion unless Shokin was fired, in hopes that a new prosecutor would do more to enforce the law. According to Biden, it worked.

[snip] "All decent people were in favor of Shokin's sacking," Anders slund, a resident fellow at the Atlantic Council told PolitiFact. "Biden led a Western/anticorruption consensus."

This had absolutely nothing to do with Hunter Biden.

#166 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 04:34 PM | Reply

ABH, go here for info on the Russians and Ukrainians involved. That site has a wealth of information that explains who the players are, and what their involvement with the Drumpf campaign was. This is all connected to Russia.

#167 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 04:35 PM | Reply

"But not zero." - #164 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 04:30 PM

Yep. Zero.

See my #166

#168 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 04:35 PM | Reply

www.zerohedge.com

#169 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-11-20 04:37 PM | Reply

and it's not improper to revisit it, I wouldn't think.
#154 | POSTED BY ABH

Again, the timing and specificity of including Biden's within the context makes it improper. Had they tried pulling this off in 2017, I don't believe it would have been nearly the issue it is.

Now consider the obstruction: Sondland outed numerous administration reps that SHOULD have pertinent knowledge about this situation that the President has ordered to not testify about. That indicates a cover-up, obstruction, illegal behavior.

Just ask yourself: if Trump wasn't hiding anything, why wouldn't he want more witnesses providing exculpatory evidence in front of the world? Could it be that they don't? Could it be that Sondland's suggestion that these folks who have pertinent information only have incriminating information?

#170 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 04:44 PM | Reply

Apropos of another discussion:

I wonder if we'll have to explain all this to ABH again, or will he smell what he's stepping in the first time...
Only time will tell!

#171 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 04:46 PM | Reply

If you are wondering why Biden's name is coming up in 2019, during a campaign for POTUS, and not, say, during the 2 years that the GOP had complete control of the federal government, you might find some answers on your own...

#172 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-11-20 04:48 PM | Reply

If you are wondering why Biden's name is coming up in 2019, during a campaign for POTUS, and not, say, during the 2 years that the GOP had complete control of the federal government, you might find some answers on your own...
#172 | POSTED BY CHUFFY

I don't understand why this is not more apparent to everyone. Timing of this setup was incredibly important. We have real reason to believe had Biden NOT announced a 2020 campaign, none of this would have come about.

#173 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 04:50 PM | Reply

www.zerohedge.com
#169 | POSTED BY WISGOD

At the end of 2014, Zlochevsky (the source of accusations made in the above article) fled Ukraine amid allegations of unlawful self enrichment and legalization of funds (Article 368-2, Criminal Code of Ukraine) during his tenure in public office.

Yet let's turn to HIM to help us figure out Biden's corruption.

Smart.

#174 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 04:53 PM | Reply

Trump should hire Hunter Biden and thereby make himself and his administration immune from investigation and persecution.

#175 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-11-20 05:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#175 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

We need an idiot flag for people that post stuff this stupid.

#176 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2019-11-20 05:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#10 ... Again, the timing and specificity of including Biden's within the context makes it improper. ...

Amb Volker's testimony, yesterday...

...One of the things that I said in that breakfast that I had with Mr. Giuliani, the only time Vice President Biden was ever discussed with me, and he was repeating he wasn't making an accusation and he wasn't seeking an investigation but he was repeating all of the things that were in the media that we talked about earlier about, you know, firing the prosecutor general and his son being on the company and all that.

And I said to Rudy in that breakfast the first time we sat down to talk that it is simply not credible to me that Joe Biden would be influenced in his duties as Vice President by money or things for his son or anything like that. I've known him a long time, he's a person of integrity, and that's not credible.....


Amb Volker was a witness whose testimony the Republicans wanted to hear.


#177 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 05:07 PM | Reply

The utter lack of conservatives on this thread is very telling.

#178 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 05:08 PM | Reply

@#175 ... Trump should hire Hunter Biden and thereby make himself and his administration immune from investigation and persecution. ...

If Pres Trump wants him and his administration to be immune from investigation, he and his administration just need to act within the law.

It is really just as simple as that.

Or, Pres Trump could file with a court saying that he is above the law and cannot be investigated. Which he tried to do.

#179 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-20 05:10 PM | Reply

Sure. If the toilets need cleaning. Daddy knows all about that after his 8 years. Maybe he'll talk to his son about that. He sure as hell ignored that addict fleecing Ukraine with his natural gas expertise

#180 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-11-20 05:10 PM | Reply

--The utter lack of conservatives on this thread is very telling.

Would you like to see as many conservatives on the retort as leftists?

#181 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-20 05:17 PM | Reply

167: thanks! I will have to check it out. I need more information. I appreciate that.

#182 | Posted by ABH at 2019-11-20 05:23 PM | Reply

He sure as hell ignored that addict fleecing Ukraine with his natural gas expertise

He didn't fleece Ukraine because Bursima is a privately held company that is free to pay its board members whatever they want to.

Just another idiotic canard from an idiotic poster who thinks that George W Bush is gawd, what does anyone expect?

Corporate boards often seat people with no exact expertise in the company's industry or business. Board positions are about oversight and judgment of those managing and steering the company. Here's another example of a prominent person with multiple board positions outside her given field:

Condoleezza Rice has served on the board of directors for the Carnegie Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the Chevron Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Rand Corporation, the Transamerica Corporation, and other organizations. Rice was approached in February 2009 to fill an open position as a Pac-10 Commissioner,[50] but chose instead to return to Stanford University as a political science professor and the Thomas and Barbara Stephenson Senior Fellow on Public Policy at the Hoover Institution.

en.wikipedia.org

Wisgod: preying on ignorance since 2007.

#183 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-20 05:26 PM | Reply

Yet let's turn to HIM to help us figure out Biden's corruption.

^
People like Wisgod are the same people who touted "Curveball" as justification for the Iraq War.

I'm sort of impressed they're still willing to show their stupid faces in public.

#184 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 05:32 PM | Reply

-The utter lack of conservatives on this thread is very telling.

what does it tell you?

#185 | Posted by eberly at 2019-11-20 05:40 PM | Reply

Nunes is such a ----.

What difference does it make who first blew the whistle on Trump's call? They have no relevant evidence and their life and career could be at risk from exposure.

Just another red herring from the GOP, like Hunter Biden, who no matter what he might or might have done, has no relevant information about Trump's actions.

#186 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 05:51 PM | Reply

not have done

#187 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 05:52 PM | Reply

--The utter lack of conservatives on this thread is very telling.

Would you like to see as many conservatives on the retort as leftists?

#181 | Posted by nullifidian

There used to be a more even balance. Then trump got elected and they all ran away. Only the biggest morons stuck around to defend the indefensible. I feel sorry for you suckers. Working your ass off to deflect and play whatabout and defend the most criminal president we've ever had.

#188 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 05:53 PM | Reply

edition.cnn.com

Just read the note, it proves there was no quid pro quo!

#189 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 05:54 PM | Reply

-The utter lack of conservatives on this thread is very telling.

what does it tell you?

#185 | Posted by eberly

That this is a horrible day for trump. Too bad to even find a way to spin it.

#190 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 05:54 PM | Reply

"Just another red herring from the GOP"

Not just a red herring. Nunes and Jordan are treating the whistleblower like purposeful cannon fodder; even they don't believe identification won't lead to retaliation. In fact, that's their plan. And not for any exculpatory reason at this point, just for vile revenge.

#191 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-20 05:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Only the biggest morons stuck around

Hence Trumpifidian's post.

#192 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 05:57 PM | Reply

Insults are a sure sign you've got nothing. But you never do, Shoof

#193 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-11-20 06:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--There used to be a more even balance. Then trump got elected and they all ran away

Liar. This has always been "red meat for yellow dogs." And your team does your best to expel conservatives and then you have the chutzpah to ask where are all the conservatives. Fraud. You don't want any balance.

#194 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-11-20 06:01 PM | Reply

Yeah, Corky. Everyone believes Father and son have no connection.
Did you get your handle from a stranger ?

#195 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-11-20 06:03 PM | Reply

In fact, that's their plan. And not for any exculpatory reason at this point, just for vile revenge.
#191 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Yikes.

It's scary to imagine the potential truth behind that statement.

#196 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 06:08 PM | Reply

#195

Neither Biden know anything about the substance of the accusation of bribery on the part of the Pres to extort dirt on Biden in return for military aid to fight the Russians.

That you fall for the GOP's whataboutism is... not surprising.

- Fraud.

Would be claiming that this thread has as many conservatives commenting as most threads here do.

#197 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:12 PM | Reply

Yeah, Corky. Everyone believes Father and son have no connection.
Did you get your handle from a stranger ?
#195 | POSTED BY WISGOD

Yeah, Wisgod. Everyone believes the source of your articles has a shred of credibility.
Did you get your handle from a stranger ?

#198 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 06:14 PM | Reply

Agent Cooper?? From Twin Peaks?

Like the new disguise, especially the glasses.

#199 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:16 PM | Reply

Liar. This has always been "red meat for yellow dogs." And your team does your best to expel conservatives and then you have the chutzpah to ask where are all the conservatives. Fraud. You don't want any balance.

#194 | Posted by nullifidian

I would love balance. I would love if there were some intellectual conservatives who could present a rational case for the conservative perspective. The problem is, there is no rational case for trump support.

The best we have is jeffy, who gets by on forever acting like he just needs a little more evidence.

Other than that we have die hard cult morons like you who rely on whatabout deflections to far lesser offenses by democrats and acting like they're as bad as anything modern republicans and trump are doing, or spouting whatever putin/breitbart conspiracy theory they read that day.

#200 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 06:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Um, because ----, Honduras, and Lebanon refused to provide dirt on Trump?

#201 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:19 PM | Reply

provide dirt FOR Trump?

#202 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:20 PM | Reply

Is that Fawn Hall sitting behind Hale?

#203 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:27 PM | Reply

"The best we have is jeffy, who gets by on forever acting like he just needs a little more evidence."

^
Same M.O. Goatman uses to deny global warming.

#204 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 06:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

'member when conservatives were against Russian military aggression around the world?

Seems so long ago now......

#205 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:35 PM | Reply

"Was there a quid pro quo? With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes."

Hey Wisgod,
Was there a quid pro quo?
Thanks in advance!

#206 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 06:37 PM | Reply

The Ukraine owes the whistleblower at least a trip to Did'ney World for being the catalyst for releasing the military funds, that is, it only happened when Trump got caught.

#207 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 06:52 PM | Reply

Our leftover cons must miss their illustrious colleague the great and voluble Afkababble. But they will never fill his shoes. Oh the good old days of pure entertainment on the Retort. Thank you very much to all the old lefties that are still here and I appreciate your intelligent commentary.

#208 | Posted by grumpy_too at 2019-11-20 07:11 PM | Reply

THROWBACK: Trump Once Tweeted He'd 'Love' to Have Sondland Testify and Say There's No Quid Pro Quo

BOMBSHELL: Sondland Testifies There Was a Quid Pro Quo, Everyone Was in the Loop

#209 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 07:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., asks Cooper if she has some evidence to believe that Ukrainians knew about the hold on military aid, now, as early as July 25.
"That is correct," she says.

Cooper says U.S. security assistance was approved and available in mid-June for release to Ukraine.
But the aid was not released until Sept. 11.

www.foxnews.com

#210 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 07:27 PM | Reply

Welp, hunter b needs Ukraine's taxpayers millions to pay for that illegitimate child. Maybe he Should've aborted that fetus when he had the chance.

#211 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 07:37 PM | Reply

Red meat for yellow dogs will get you a permanent vacation here nullifidian.

FACT!

#212 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 07:39 PM | Reply

- Should've aborted that fetus when he had the chance.

We should leave your parents out of this.

#213 | Posted by Corky at 2019-11-20 07:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Pentagon official Laura Cooper testifies Ukraine was asking about military aid as far back as July 25, the day of Trump's famous call with Ukraine's president. She suggests they may have been aware of the hold at that time, earlier than previously thought. Read the story here:
www.foxnews.com

#214 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 07:52 PM | Reply

Welp, hunter b needs Ukraine's taxpayers millions to pay for that illegitimate child. Maybe he Should've aborted that fetus when he had the chance.

#211 | Posted by mutant

Case in point -the only conservatives left around here are left making this sort of comment. Nonsensical conspiracy theories without a link to a source, loaded with logical fallacies like it costs millions to pay for a child.

Tough time to be in trump's cult.

#215 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 07:55 PM | Reply

Resurfaced video shows Lindsey Graham scolding senators for making up their minds on impeachment without listening to 'facts'

#216 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 07:59 PM | Reply

Schiff says that investigations demanded by the president is not anti-corruption.. "that is corruption."

"Are we really to believe that was his priority?" Schiff asks, regarding the Trump-Zelensky July 25 phone call, noting he requests investigations into the Bidens and 2016 election.

"That's not anti-corruption. That is corruption."

Cooper again testifies that the aid to Ukraine was being withheld because President Trump directed the Office of Management and Budget to do so, due to his concerns about corruption.

www.foxnews.com

#217 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 08:01 PM | Reply

I would love balance. I would love if there were some intellectual conservatives who could present a rational case for the conservative perspective.

#200 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-11-20 06:16 PM

LOL, says the person who, when confronted with facts that go against their preconceived bias, starts to hyperventilate, screams "cultist" and runs in circles with their fingers in their ears.

You can't make this shht up.

#218 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-20 08:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

LOL, says the person who, when confronted with facts that go against their preconceived bias, starts to hyperventilate, screams "cultist" and runs in circles with their fingers in their ears.

You can't make this shht up.

#218 | Posted by Rightocenter

Your only trick is accusing your opponent of emotionality where none exists, suggesting you are superior, more advanced, or more masculine because of your calmness in the face of a fascist uprising.

You dont know how I react when confronted with facts that disprove my point of view because you've never done that.

And trumpism is a cult. The few conservatives with patriotism and self respect admit it.

religionandpolitics.org
Just this week, in order to rebuke the Republican response to the impeachment inquiry, Norman Ornstein, of the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute, tweeted one word: "Cult."

#219 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 08:08 PM | Reply

suburban robots monitoring reality

this monkey wants a word with YOU

#220 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 08:17 PM | Reply

Is Trump corrupt?
Is Biden corrupt?

I got it:
There was good corruption on both sides!

#221 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 08:24 PM | Reply

You dont know how I react when confronted with facts that disprove my point of view because you've never done that.

Except on a daily basis.

Adjust your anxiety meds and get back to me when you are able to have a rational conversation.

#222 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-20 08:35 PM | Reply

but USA is the best corrupt nation on Earth, with god given rights to ensure such corruption remains in check. Would you rather live in a craphole country, say, within Europe that has government given rights?

#223 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 08:39 PM | Reply

"Is Trump corrupt?
Is Biden corrupt?
I got it:
There was good corruption on both sides!
#221 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

You admit Biden is corrupt? New Ukraine documents posted today...looks like the $3M we know went to Hunter was just the tip of the iceberg. Thus, once this is accepted as fact - and it is a fact - then any investigation into this corruption is legitimate. Thanks for playing.

#224 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-20 08:44 PM | Reply

You dont know how I react when confronted with facts that disprove my point of view because you've never done that.

Except on a daily basis.

Adjust your anxiety meds and get back to me when you are able to have a rational conversation.

#222 | Posted by Rightocenter

I'm going to need a link to that. If it happens on a daily basis that should be super easy.

Another emotional accusation where no emotionality exists as a way to claim victory.

#225 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 08:45 PM | Reply

215 look it up yourself - why do I have to do all your research for you? Hunter is in the news for this you lazybones.

you guys are try hard meanies these days

#226 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 08:46 PM | Reply

Thanks for playing.
#224 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

You referring to this story?

As Sondland testified, a misleading Ukraine story spread among conservatives on social media. The article offered conservatives and Trump loyalists a welcome alternative to the day's news.

A misleading claim about the head of the Ukrainian energy company at the heart of the House impeachment inquiry went viral across conservative pockets of social media Wednesday, receiving hundreds of thousands of retweets and shares from some of the president's most ardent online supporters.

The incorrect story, first disseminated by the finance blog ZeroHedge, claimed that Mykola Zlochevsky, the head of Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company, had been indicted over money laundering related to the Biden family. Hunter Biden, son of former Vice President Joe Biden, was previously on Burisma's board of directors.


www.nbcnews.com

Because it's been addressed:

www.zerohedge.com
#169 | POSTED BY WISGOD
At the end of 2014, Zlochevsky (the source of accusations made in the above article) fled Ukraine amid allegations of unlawful self enrichment and legalization of funds (Article 368-2, Criminal Code of Ukraine) during his tenure in public office.
Yet let's turn to HIM to help us figure out Biden's corruption.
Smart.
POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2019-11-20 04:53 PM

#227 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-20 08:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" Hunter is in the news for this ..." - #226 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 08:46 PM

No he isn't.

#228 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 08:54 PM | Reply

Biden is maybe a little bit less corrupt than the clintons.....

Ukrainian members of parliament have demanded the presidents of Ukraine and the United States, Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump, investigate suspicions of the legalization of $7.4 billion by the "family" of ex-President Viktor Yanukovych through the American investment fund Franklin Templeton Investments, which they said has ties to the U.S. Democratic Party.

>At a press conference at the Interfax-Ukraine agency on Wednesday, MP Andriy Derkach announced that deputies have received new materials from investigative journalists about international corruption and the participation of Ukrainian officials in it.

>"Last week, November 14, the Prosecutor General's Office (PGO), unnoticed by the media, announced a new suspicion to the notorious owner of Burisma, ex-Ecology Minister Zlochevsky. According to the suspicion, the Yanukovych family is suspected, in particular, with legalizing (laundering) of criminally obtained income through Franklin Templeton Investments, an investment fund carrying out purchases of external government loan bonds totaling $7.4 billion," Derkach said.
en.interfax.com.ua

#229 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 08:54 PM | Reply

Here is an open question with a qualifier preceding it:

Joe Biden has been a government official for over 3 decades - Does he have any kind of track-record of using his office to enrich himself or his family?

#230 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:01 PM | Reply

My response to my own question is this: I'm not aware of any kind of track-record or even allegations to this effect.

#231 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:02 PM | Reply

So he might have that track record... or he might not.
And you're just too ignorant to know if it he does or not.

It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em!

#232 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 09:03 PM | Reply

#213 corky my friend, wishing death upon a fellow retorter is new low for you.

please lighten up pal.

#233 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:04 PM | Reply

"Does he have any kind of track-record of using his office to enrich himself or his family?" - #230 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:01 PM

Apparently not:

Here's How Much 2020 Presidential Candidate Joe Biden Is Worth

[snip] When Biden ended his term as vice president in January 2017, he filed another financial disclosure form, listing assets and liabilities worth somewhere between negative $897,000 and positive $489,000.

#234 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 09:07 PM | Reply

#228 Hans - do you even know how to internet? it sure is in the news even though you want to play peekaboo....

The way that we weren't is what we'll become
So please pay attention while I show you some
Of what's about to happen

#235 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:09 PM | Reply

#229

BWAWWHAHAHAHAAA!

"According to the suspicion, the Yanukovych family is suspected, in particular, with legalizing (laundering) of criminally obtained income through Franklin Templeton Investments, an investment fund carrying out purchases of external government loan bonds totaling $7.4 billion," he said, Interfax-Ukraine reported.

"The son of Templeton's founder, John Templeton Jr., was one of President Obama's major campaign donors," Derkach said.

He also accused former Vice President Biden's son Hunter of stealing millions from the citizens of the Ukraine.

"The PGO document once again confirms the data I had previously published on Burisma and international corruption.

"According to Zlochevsky's suspicion notice, Biden and partners received their $16.5 million for their services to Burisma.

"Biden received funds not due to the successful activity of Burisma or for brilliant business decisions or recommendations.

"This is the money of Ukrainian citizens. The funds were obtained by criminal means. That's what they say in the PGO," he said.
thefederalistpapers.org

Yanukovych was Paul Manafort's client and a friend of Putin who ran to Russia with the money. And the connection to Hunter Biden is that the company that paid him may have used illicit funds, and THAT is Biden's fault and responsibility?

And the son of the fund founder was a campaign contributor to Obama and that implicates the entire Democratic Party?

Thanks for the comic relief. Anyone touting this lunacy deserves to be ridiculed for their abject stupidity.

#236 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-20 09:11 PM | Reply

Joe Biden has been a government official for over 3 decades - Does he have any kind of track-record of using his office to enrich himself or his family?

#230 | Posted by JeffJ

Interesting comparison would be - how long did it take trump to start using his office to enrich himself or his family? The answer is - before he even took the oath of office.

#237 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 09:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"He also accused former Vice President Biden's son Hunter of stealing millions from the citizens of the Ukraine."

Why should anyone care if Biden stole from the Nazi government of Ukraine?

#238 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-20 09:14 PM | Reply

Apparently not:

That fits what I've seen. Thank you for providing context with #234, Hans.

#239 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"...do you even know how to internet?" - #235 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:09 PM

Found on the Internet
Do you even know reality?

#240 | Posted by Hans at 2019-11-20 09:15 PM | Reply

"abject" means the opposite of "actual" here ...keep trying corruptomunduss

#241 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:15 PM | Reply

"According to Zlochevsky's suspicion notice, Biden and partners received their $16.5 million for their services to Burisma.
"Biden received funds not due to the successful activity of Burisma or for brilliant business decisions or recommendations.

Burisma Holdings does not disclose its financial results. It has been calculated, based on a minimal natural gas price, that the company's revenue in 2018 may have totaled at least US$400 million.
Yeah I'm sure Hunter Biden's cut came out of the alleged corrupted $16.5 million, not out of the hundreds of millions Burisma generates annually....

#242 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-20 09:16 PM | Reply

you shills are tryhards tonight - I love the attention

#243 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:17 PM | Reply

should we dig into Shiffs pedophiliacish friends tonight some? I'll be right back

#244 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:22 PM | Reply

Earlier today I expressed ignorance regarding the whole Hunter Biden/Burisma thing because I never thought it was a big deal, so I never really researched it.

I think it's important to point out why I don't think it's a big deal.

The reason is simple: the dollar amounts. Hunter Biden was being paid $50K per month. No way his dad, as VEEP, is going to withhold billions in secured loans to protect that kind of payout being made to his son, especially given that Biden simply doesn't have a history of using his office, as VP or Senator, for personal enrichment.

#245 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:24 PM | Reply

Why do they call Schiff pencil-neck when he really should be called Bugeyes?

#246 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:29 PM | Reply

Why do they call Schiff pencil-neck when he really should be called Bugeyes?

#246 | Posted by mutant

Focus on his neck and his eyes. Maybe that will protect you from the devastating case that comes out of his mouth.

#247 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-20 09:49 PM | Reply

trump won with 38% approval and is now about 50%

what that means is the amount of trump voters has increased by 25% or so

the dnc is a shell organization, hollow, defunct, and in truthful terms bankrupt as well

but a cornered rat is extremely dangerous

#248 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:51 PM | Reply

Schiff definitely has a term I learned from my wife - "Horsey eyes."

#249 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:52 PM | Reply

But is this really one of the biggest moments in American history? Like right up there with the battle of York or Gettysburg? Basically a bunch of elites have subverted our county and are putting on a political show for the stupid goyim while they import legal and illegals and make everyone into degenerate mindless consumers. It's not ------- important

#250 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 09:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#247 look pal, you should soon worry about what his hands have done my friend

#251 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 10:02 PM | Reply

trump won with 38% approval and is now about 50%

At best, 44.

Not even the outliers, Rasmussen (always grossly out of the norm) and Trump's newest mouthpiece, The Hill, are at 50%.

Trump's numbers are where they've been his entire administration. Try again.

#252 | Posted by jpw at 2019-11-20 10:04 PM | Reply

in the USA the Parties in and of themselves don't matter except to the ------- insane activists who treat politics as a substitute for Christianity.

However, the Ruling Class, Black Nobility, whatever you want to call them, treat the parties as useful tools to trick the Broad Masses from a condition of liberty into a condition of Serfdom, which is their long term agenda.

Everything you see is a Rich Man's Trick. It just so happens that the Democrats are willing to whore themselves out to the Rich a bit more often than not while pretending to be the Party of the Ethnic Groups or the Little Guy, so they are useful to the Oligarchy during this period in history. Trump is not, which is why they want him gone.

Oh, as an aside. Trump hasn't been driven from power for a reason: the Oligarchs who pulled off the last coup d'tat have probably figured that nobody in the country would believe the new Lee Oswald patsy that the elites came up with as the Bad Guy.

So they came up with this --------. Which nobody except the True Believer Lefties actually believes

#253 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 10:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Saw this on Twitter earlier...
Trump supporters believe their guy, who was fined $25 million for operating a fraudulent university and another $2 million for stealing from a kids cancer charity, was very concerned about corruption in Ukraine.

#254 | Posted by cbob at 2019-11-20 10:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

cbob - please make some sense and put down the bong

#255 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-20 10:47 PM | Reply

cbob - please make some sense and put down the bong

#255 | POSTED BY MUTANT AT 2019-11-20 10:47 PM | FLAG:

Uh, righto. Yeah, I've read your posts.

#256 | Posted by cbob at 2019-11-20 11:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It was a shakedown. thank goodness Zelensky didn't fall for it. The Ukrainians were dying because the US failed to intervene. Every move POTUS makes the US weaker!! #impeach45

#257 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2019-11-20 11:35 PM | Reply

Why do you vote for the party that supports drag queen story time if you're not a pedo

#258 | Posted by mutant at 2019-11-21 12:00 AM | Reply

but a cornered rat is extremely dangerous

#248 | Posted by mutant

Indeed!

And in the dictionary right next to "a cornered rat" should be a picture of Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States.

Don and Giant Impeach.

Epitomizes the image of a Cornered Rat...

Forever, in the annals of history.

Gtatz!

#259 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-21 09:34 AM | Reply

Gee tatz?

no tatz please!

just Gratz!

#260 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-11-21 09:39 AM | Reply

trump won with 38% approval and is now about 50%

#248 | Posted by mutant

If facts were on your side, you wouldnt have to lie about them.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

#261 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-21 12:57 PM | Reply

Why do you vote for the party that supports drag queen story time if you're not a pedo

#258 | Posted by mutant

What do drag queens have to do with pedophiles?

#262 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-11-21 12:58 PM | Reply

Why do you vote for the party that supports drag queen story time if you're not a pedo
#258 | POSTED BYMUTANT

^
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

#263 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-21 02:59 PM | Reply

Insults are a sure sign you've got nothing. But you never do, Shoof

#193 | Posted by wisgod

Wisgod has made the most ironic comment of 2019, constant insult hurler that he is.

#264 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-11-21 04:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He has?
That's great!
What was once an acorn has grown into a mighty joke.

#265 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-11-21 07:41 PM | Reply

Where's the thread on Swalwell's fart?

Gracie! Jump on that grenade!

#266 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2019-11-22 01:06 AM | Reply

What do drag queens have to do with pedophiles?

#262 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Storybook Time?

#267 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2019-11-22 01:07 AM | Reply

Hunter Biden was being paid $50K per month. No way his dad, as VEEP, is going to withhold billions in secured loans to protect that kind of payout being made to his son, especially given that Biden simply doesn't have a history of using his office, as VP or Senator, for personal enrichment.

#245 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-11-20 09:24 PM

More like $83,000, twice a month.

Small change compared to the $130 Million TALF *bailout loan* he got for his *3 week old company*.

A pittance compared to the $1.5 Billion he flew home with Daddy with from China.

But they never talked about his foreign business dealings.

Grandpa Joe just wanted that Burisma investigator gone for *reasons*.

You gotta get current, JJ. Now that the Burisma oligarch has been indicted and tied to 2 of Schiff's buddy firms, ---- will be flowing downhill.

Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romney -- all with Ukranian gas experts in the family. Go figure.

Funny!

#268 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2019-11-22 01:15 AM | Reply

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