Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, November 26, 2019

Vanity Fair: As details of Trump's Ukrainian phone call spilled out, and as House Democrats revved the impeachment engine, early polls evidenced strong support for removing Donald Trump from office. Though much of that support came from Democrats, critically, it also came from Independents: A late October Gallup poll put Independents in favor of removing Trump from office at 53% to 44%, and a Morning Consult poll in early November revealed an even greater gap, 49% to 34%, in favor of removal.

Alas, for the Democrats, the promising numbers of late October and early November rapidly dissipated, and polling numbers have reverted to a level more consistent with long-term opinions on President Trump. In the latest Politico/Morning Consult poll, released on November 19, Independents opposed impeachment and removal from office 46% to 39%, a number close to the rolling averages of the last few weeks. This is nothing but bad news for the Democrats heading into 2020.

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Three important factors are driving the views of Independents.

The first is that, in their view, impeachment distracts from issues they care about. Among the 11 issues that Politico and Morning Consult tested, impeachment ranked last, well below the deficit at 74%, health care at 72%, and infrastructure at 70%. Even Trump's absurd border wall scored as a higher priority for Independents.

The second factor is the view among Independents that impeachment reflects the agenda of the political establishment and the media. Regardless of what they think about Trump's behavior, Independents see impeachment as a continuation of the partisan bickering and media excess that began even before his inauguration.

Third, as other reporting has suggested, Independents suffer from scandal fatigue and overall confusion. They agreed with the statement "[It is] difficult to tell all the investigations in Washington apart" by a roughly two-to-one margin. (Even Democrats concur by a substantial, if somewhat smaller, margin).

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FTA:

By massive margins, Independents say that the impeachment issue is "more important to politicians than it is to me" (62% to 22%) and "more important to the media than it is to me" (61% to 23%). It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me. Impeachment proceedings are viewed as bread and circuses for the anti-Trump crowd in Washington and the media - or, as Stanford political science professor Morris Fiorina described it to me, "entertainment and confirmation." That's a dangerous perception as Democrats approach one of the most consequential and fraught elections of our times.
I guarantee you that Pelosi and the DNC are watching these polls carefully, so it will be interesting what they do in the next couple of weeks.

#1 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-11-26 01:09 PM | Reply

'Polling suggests Dems impeachment push alienates key voters'

That's just too ---- bad! This shouldn't be about House or Senate seats or even the presidency. This SHOULD be about accountability and ensuring that this sort of -------- does not happen again whether under a Republican president or under a Democratic president. In needs to be nipped at the bud and only an impeachment has the power to do that. Clearly, Trump was not deterred by the Mueller investigation or its report from asking ANOTHER country to assist him in getting elected. All we have left is an impeachment and trial to show the sitting POTUS, and future, that this sort of behavior will not be tolerated.

Trumpers should be considering the future (not necessarily 2020; I still predict Trump will be reelected) when, inevitably, a Democrat will be sitting in the WH. Whose to say that person won't be as corrupt as Trump is now?!

Short sighted Trumpers get on board!

#2 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 01:40 PM | Reply

"This SHOULD be about accountability and ensuring that this sort of -------- does not happen again whether under a Republican president or under a Democratic president. In needs to be nipped at the bud..."

Or....

We could just say yeah, sure...Presidents can do that; Candidates can do that. And then Liz Warren can say "Iran, if you're listening, hack into Saudi Arabia and expose the information about Jared's business deals; you'll be greatly rewarded."

Then, whoever wins can immediately start using Congressionally-approved aid as bargaining chip for a quid pro quo to get dirt on Nikki Haley, and Ivanka, any private citizens the President wants, and any and every possible Republican candidate.

If it's good for the goose-stepper, right?

#3 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-26 01:49 PM | Reply

If it's good for the goose-stepper, right?
#3 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

That's what Trumpers should be afraid of. Yet, they are too short sighted.

Which makes me wary. What's the long-term plan here? Is there really a significant segment of the Trumper population that wants Trump in the WH indefinitely? The way they have castigated Dem opponents as traitors and such does make one wonder.

#4 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 01:52 PM | Reply

Furthermore, this news indicates House and Senate Republicans should now be SUPPORTING impeachment with the auspice that it will sway public favor away from ALL Democrats in 2020, no?

#5 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 01:59 PM | Reply

Impeachment is a political process, not a moral or legal one. As someone said to me in another thread... who said politics were ethical? (I paraphrased a bit).

Having said that, it does appear that the recent hearings have slowed or reversed the down-slide of impeachment support.

If you scroll down a bit, there's a nice graph that includes some late-November numbers...
www.realclearpolitics.com

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 02:04 PM | Reply

... In the latest Politico/Morning Consult poll, released on November 19 ...

The latest Politico/Morning Consult poll was released within the past couple days, it covered a period Nov 22 to Nov 24.

While the approve of impeachment held steady, the disapprove of impeachment dropped by 3%.

The poll is noted in the RCP link in my prior comment.


#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 02:09 PM | Reply

using Congressionally-approved aid as bargaining chip for a quid pro quo - #3 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-26 01:49 PM
No matter how many times you pretend that it happened, you still don't have any evidence that it did.

I see it similarly to how you'd respond with 'How are you gonna feel when Trump starts rounding people up and throwing them into Walmart internment camps?'
You're engaged in a conspiracy theory with no proof to back you up. And posing a question because you want to push your unproven narrative into becoming an accepted version of what happened.

But it's not. There is no proof that Trump used aid as a bargaining chip for qpq.

So here's the answer to your question 'Since it would be first time a president had ever done that, I hope that she's willing to face the political and legal ramifications.'

#8 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-11-26 02:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Yes, some people think it's okay for Trump to bribe a foreign country into announcing(but not even conducting) sham investigations into his political opponents.

Some people think it's okay for Trump to do whatever the heck he wants.

I can't imagine why, but it still doesn't make it okay.

#9 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2019-11-26 02:14 PM | Reply

using Congressionally-approved aid as bargaining chip for a quid pro quo - #3 | Posted by Danforth

No matter how many times you pretend that it happened, you still don't have any evidence that it did.

There's plenty of evidence.

You're simply too dishonest to admit it.

Weird how Republicans don't care about the future of America.

All you want is some immediate sense victory.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-11-26 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#8 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

Help me out here. What was the reason for holding up the aide in the first place? Ukrainian corruption that just so happened to involve Trump's political opponent (coincidence)?

Combine that coincidence with the subsequent coincidence when the aide was released one day post whistle blower complaint being made.

Two coincidences make a phenomenon. A third?

"China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine." -- Trump

Biden made his corrupt declaration against Ukraine in 2015, on public television. IOW, this has been known for more than 4 years. Trump and the Republicans had been fully in charge for two years without even a whimper about the Biden corruption. So why is/was it an issue in 2019? Coincidence number four being Biden is NOW running against Trump for POTUS 2020?

You know what they say about four coincidences? Nothing. By then it's presumed you'd consider the situation to be what it is: Trump strong arming foreign governments to assist him in the 2020 election.

You seem to be okay with how this is playing out, save for the Dems calling Trump out on it. Keep in mind, you and your ilk support for Repubs allowing this to play out only intensifies the risk of a Democrat successfully pulling the same stunt against your side.

You are currently building that. Expect to be held accountable for your support once that inevitably happens (as corrupt and shifty we all know Democrats to be!).

#11 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 02:29 PM | Reply

"No matter how many times you pretend that it happened, you still don't have any evidence that it did."

Translation: "First, let's all pretend we're stupid."

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-11-26 02:37 PM | Reply

Michigan Democratic Rep. Brenda Lawrence, a prominent supporter of Kamala Harris who has previously supported the impeachment inquiry into President Trump, abruptly announced Sunday that she no longer saw any "value" in the process and called for her fellow Democrats to throw their support behind a symbolic censure resolution.
www.foxnews.com

Pathetically coward Democrats.

#13 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 03:08 PM | Reply

Tough to keep up!

Democratic Rep. Brenda Lawrence, just two days after declaring she could no longer "see the value" in removing President Trump from office as she pushed instead for an alternative to impeachment, has reversed course again -- now claiming she's completely on board with impeachment.

"I was an early supporter for impeachment in 2017," Lawrence said in a statement. "The House Intelligence Committee followed a very thorough process in holding hearings these past two weeks. The information they revealed confirmed that this President has abused the power of his office, therefore I continue to support impeachment."

www.foxnews.com

#14 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 03:13 PM | Reply

@#13, 14

I expect to see a lot of hand-wringing and flip-flops as the polling changes. The purple political areas will be the most likely to do the flip-flop dance.


#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 03:27 PM | Reply

The spin has begun!

A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.

That result is being spun in some corners of the internet as great news for Trump, because that 50% number is unchanged from a CNN poll in mid-October, the conclusion being that the last 10 days of public impeachment hearings have not convinced more of the public that the President needs to go.

Except that we are missing the forest for the trees here: A majority of the country believes the current President of the United States should be impeached and removed from office! ...

Don't get so close to the painting that you can't see the full picture. And that full picture is this: 50% of the public believes Trump should be impeached and removed -- almost double the amount who have said that about any of his three most recent predecessors, including one who was actually impeached by the House.

Don't lose sight of those facts amid the narrow focus on whether the impeachment numbers have moved since the last poll. That 50% number is both astounding and ahistorical.

www.cnn.com

Decent point, though. Just lacking context of the current political environment we now find ourselves in.

#16 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 03:34 PM | Reply

@#8 ... No matter how many times you pretend that it happened, you still don't have any evidence that it did. ...

How do you know that alias has no evidence?

Really, how do you know.

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 10:16 PM | Reply

#17 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

How do you know that alias does?

Really how do YOU know?

#18 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-26 10:28 PM | Reply

#16 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

CNN LOL !!!!!

#19 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-11-26 10:28 PM | Reply

@#18 ... Really how do YOU know? ..

Really.

Now your comment just seems to be argumentative.

If you want to ask me how I know something, please provide the "something" you are questioning me about. I will be all to happy to tell you (probably in more detail than you want) how I know about something.

When you ask, "how do YOU know," my first response will be, "know about what?"

But as an aside I do want to note that your comments here lately have taken quite the nosedive in quality. Why might that be happening?


#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 11:06 PM | Reply

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