Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, November 26, 2019

The White House budget office's first official action to withhold $250 million in Pentagon aid to Ukraine came on the evening of July 25, the same day President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky spoke on the phone, according to a House Budget Committee summary of the office's documents.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Better and better context.

#1 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 02:58 PM | Reply

The summary says the review of the materials made the lawmakers "more concerned that the apportionment process has been abused to undermine Congress's constitutional power of the purse," specifically citing the timeline of the withholding of aid and the "seemingly unprecedented step" of having a political appointee handle the apportionments of funding.

www.nbcnews.com

#2 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-11-26 06:32 PM | Reply

I think this would be damning proof or something if Zelensky had said NO or expressed any hesitation. The fact that Zelensky said yes and Trump still held up the aid actually runs counter to the narrative. As it stands, this just supports Trump's argument that he held up the aid until he knew more information regarding Zelensky being an honest politician.

#3 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-26 10:51 PM | Reply

@#3 ... I think this would be damning proof or something if Zelensky had said NO or expressed any hesitation. ...

Does an attempted bank robbery have to succeed in order to be a crime?

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 10:55 PM | Reply

@#3 ... As it stands, this just supports Trump's argument that he held up the aid until he knew more information regarding Zelensky being an honest politician. ...

Please provide a link to substantiate that that was Pres Trump's argument.

thx.

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-11-26 10:57 PM | Reply

Ira...

Kindly explain how a privately-held company, Burisma, whose business is in natural gas exploration and production, is central to Trump's stated concern with governmental "corruption" when not a single penny of the $391 million in lethal aide/military equipment sales involves the gas company?

Of all the companies and oligarchs in Ukraine, why would Trump be focused on the business practices of just one that wasn't connected in any way to the money and equipment that comprised the aide package which was held up, likely in violation of the Impoundment Control Act, a federal offense?

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 02:16 AM | Reply

"Kindly explain how a privately-held company, Burisma, whose business is in natural gas exploration and production, is central to Trump's stated concern with governmental "corruption"
#6 | POSTED BY TONYROMA"

Because the new president was surrounding himself with some of the same people involved in the Burisma corruption. Here is the relevant line from the phone call:

"There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people."

This relates to the prosecutor being fired, 2016 election interference and CrowdStrike.

So, if Trump believed Ukraine was corrupt with Burisma (their largest gas company + a well known corrupt entity with US ties), it is natural for him to hold off the aid until he knew it would not be funneled to those same corrupt sources. Given the people Zelensky put in his cabinet, it is logical for Trump to be skeptical of him pending reviews of him from other government officials.

#7 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-27 06:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Among other despicable acts, we know Trump defrauded students of his fake university to the tune of $25 million and donors to his fake charity to the tune of $2 million.

Anyone who claims this fraudster is interested in rooting out corruption rather than profiting from it anywhere on Earth is either completely dishonest or spectacularly stupid.

Or both.

#8 | Posted by anton at 2019-11-27 06:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Because the new president was surrounding himself with some of the same people involved in the Burisma corruption. Here is the relevant line from the phone call:

Your main problem is the failure to acknowledge that Donald Trump LIES everytime he opens his mouth. There was NO ONE around Zelensky from the prior corrupt government, just the opposite. Trump believed that the replaced corrupt former officials who were willing to lie in order to serve him were honest and those in place post election that rebuffed him were corrupt. That is why Zelensky told Trump that he took corruption seriously at the same time Trump was trying to corruptly force him into a public announcement that only served Trump.

Crowdstrike is based in California, not Ukraine. The DNC used a series of cloud-based servers, every one of them accounted for and physically present inside the United States.

The DNC's network consisted of many servers and computers which either had be put out to pasture, rebooted, or rebuilt to rid them of malware and intruders. As the DNC explained in a 2018 lawsuit filed against the Russian government, it had to "decommission more than 140 servers, remove and reinstall all software, including the operating systems, for more than 180 computers, and rebuild at least 11 servers" as a result of the hacking.
Here's a photo of one of the DNC servers that the Russians broke into. You'll notice it resides in Washington D.C. not Kyiv, Ukraine.

Please stop spouting lies. The truth is at your fingertips if you actually wanted to find it.

#9 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 07:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"There was NO ONE around Zelensky from the prior corrupt government, just the opposite."

LOL - you don't even know the basic facts - like for instance that 'anti-corruption' unit that they installed for Obama has since been classified - BY OBAMA - as corrupt.

"Crowdstrike is based in California, not Ukraine."

The founder is a Russian residing in Ukraine holding openly anti-Russian views. Again, just the facts please.

"The DNC used a series of cloud-based servers, every one of them accounted for and physically present inside the United States.
#9 | POSTED BY TONYROMA "

And the one that was 'hacked' had a 20MB/s transfer rate - impossible for the internet connection they had at the time but a perfect match for USB. Again, the NSA tracks all data sent across the international undersea cables. So, if this was done, they could pin point the exact sender, receiver, etc. They can't and back tracked on claims in the Mueller report. They were forced to because it was 'hacked' by a Bernie supporter - not Russians.

#10 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-27 07:50 AM | Reply

So, if Trump believed Ukraine was corrupt with Burisma (their largest gas company + a well known corrupt entity with US ties), it is natural for him to hold off the aid until he knew it would not be funneled to those same corrupt sources.

Burisma does not have US ties. Burisma's primary operations are in Ukraine, supplemented by activities in Germany, Mexico, Italy, and Kazakhstan. In 2017, Burisma signed a partnership agreement with the Atlantic Council to promote anti-corruption measures. Burisma has no ties to the government and as told before, it's owner USED to be an official in the prior corrupted government that hired Paul Manafort. The composition of his new board reflected his desire to clean up the image of the company so that it would be viewed as a legitimate player in its field and worthy of international finance, leaving its ethical issues in the past.

There has to be a reason you never supply any links to where you get your information because none with credibility actually exist.

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 07:50 AM | Reply

Ira, you cannot make up lie after lie, without attribution and believe that you're doing anything but forwarding Russian propaganda. No one believes a word you say because you cannot back up a single assertion with actual evidence not pulled out of your arse. And when your lies are debunked, you just move on, never addressing the gaping holes in your conspiracy theories.

It's sad actually.

#12 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 07:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They were forced to because it was 'hacked' by a Bernie supporter - not Russians.

You do realize that Dutch intelligence actually watched Russia hack into the DNC in realtime with a camera:

Report: Dutch Spies Watched Russians Hack the DNC

The Dutch security service known as the AIVD snooped on the Russian hacking team Cozy Bear by penetrating its computer network in a Moscow university building back in the summer of 2014. Specifically, it witnessed the Russian hackers stealing thousands of emails and files from the DNC.

The AIVD then warned US intelligence about the hack, but it reportedly spied on Cozy Bear for up to 2.5 years, and even had access to a security camera within the Moscow building, where the Russian hackers were based.

Please stop forwarding Russian lies. They have no place in this discussion.

#13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 08:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"There has to be a reason you never supply any links to where you get your information because none with credibility actually exist.
#11 | POSTED BY TONYROMA "

Did you not even listen to your own impeachment witnesses? You need some new material because you undercut your own case.

www.usatoday.com

"George Kent, deputy assistant secretary at the State Department, said he believed alleged corruption related to Ukrainian gas company Burisma should be investigated, a point Republicans have emphasized in their defense of President Donald Trump.

"To summarize, we thought that Mykola Zlochevsky had stolen money," Kent said of the oligarch head of Burisma. "We thought a prosecutor had taken a bribe to shut the case, those were our main concerns.""

#14 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-27 08:09 AM | Reply

"And when your lies are debunked, you just move on, never addressing the gaping holes in your conspiracy theories.
It's sad actually.
#12 | POSTED BY TONYROMA "

Please link to any of my arguments that was FACTUALLY wrong. You mistake your difference in opinion as a difference in fact. They are very different things.

#15 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-27 08:11 AM | Reply

"You do realize that Dutch intelligence actually watched Russia hack into the DNC in realtime with a camera:
#13 | POSTED BY TONYROMA"

Yeah, just like Maddow said we have proof that they Russian hacked the electrical grid. How dumb are you? Again, the NSA records all cross cable data. If it happened, they would have a record. They don't as stated in the Mueller report.

#16 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-27 08:13 AM | Reply

Did you not even listen to your own impeachment witnesses? You need some new material because you undercut your own case.

Really? Guess you didn't read this, huh?

Office of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine and National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) have conducted in total 15 investigations on Burisma's owner Zlochevsky.

There's no there there as usual. There were 15 investigations into Zlochevsky, so how did Hunter Biden offer any protection?

A criminal investigation was conducted if natural resources extraction licenses were issued to Burisma subsidiaries legally during the period Zlochevsky held government office. Although violations of the procedure were established by NABU, the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office missed procedural deadlines for a lawsuit and the case for nullifying licesenses was dismissed by the court.[39] In October 2019, Prosecutor General Ruslan Riaboshapka announced that all 15 investigation cases will be reviewed.[38]

"To summarize, we thought that Mykola Zlochevsky had stolen money," Kent said of the oligarch head of Burisma. "We thought a prosecutor had taken a bribe to shut the case, those were our main concerns.""
In 2016, former Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko accused Burisma subsidiaries of conspiracy and tax evasion of about one billion hryvnias (US$70 million) in 2014"2015, but later during investigation subsidiaries of Burisma were not mentioned.[39] Tax audit of Esko-Pivnich by the State Fiscal Service found some violations in 2016. As a result, 50 million hryvnias (US$1.9 million) of additional taxes was paid to eliminate criminal charges.[39] In total, Burisma paid additional 180 million hryvnias (US$7.44 million) of taxes to avoid further criminal proceedings.[8][23] A criminal investigation was conducted if natural resources extraction licenses were issued to Burisma subsidiaries legally during the period Zlochevsky held government office. Although violations of the procedure were established by NABU, the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office missed procedural deadlines for a lawsuit and the case for nullifying licesenses was dismissed by the court.[39] In October 2019, Prosecutor General Ruslan Riaboshapka announced that all 15 investigation cases will be reviewed.[38]
Zlochevsky had already been investigated and paid millions in fines. Nothing about his business now is related to Ukraine's government and certainly not connected to lethal arms aide and assistance.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 08:17 AM | Reply

How dumb are you?

Not dumb enough to believe a single unattributed word that you say Russian troll. Take your BS and go somewhere that people buy it. Facts are not open to opinion.

You know this if you ever found one on your own.

#18 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 08:19 AM | Reply

Yeah, just like Maddow said we have proof that they Russian hacked the electrical grid.

Time to pull the plug, isn't it?

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 08:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Please link to any of my arguments that was FACTUALLY wrong

*Everything

#20 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 08:27 AM | Reply

Time to pull the plug, isn't it?

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2

TONY, the man is ASSIGNED to watch Maddow. It's part of his job.

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-27 08:29 AM | Reply

I think this would be damning proof or something if Zelensky had said NO or expressed any hesitation.

#3 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-26 10:51

Zelensky had expressed gobs of concern prior to this phone call.

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-27 08:31 AM | Reply

I think this would be damning proof or something if Zelensky had said NO or expressed any hesitation.

#3 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-26 10:51

Therefore Trump is damned to Hell.

#23 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-27 08:32 AM | Reply

Please stop forwarding Russian lies.

#13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27

IRA would, if he weren't Russian, and a liar.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-27 08:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think this would be damning proof or something if Zelensky had said NO or expressed any hesitation.
#3 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-11-26 10:51"

Your comment would have some credibility if Zelensky's country wasn't under attack from Russia and the aid in question was his only hope of defending his country. It's just ridiculous to pretend that Zelensky saying he wasn't pressured has any credibility, if he insulted Trump he knew he would never get the aid they desperately needed. You know that but you are still willing to lie for Trump because you are a dishonest piece of crap yourself.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-27 09:31 AM | Reply

Do Trump sychophants have to sign an oath that says they will lie for him? Because virtually all of them do it every day.

#26 | Posted by danni at 2019-11-27 09:32 AM | Reply

I agree the pause of the $400Mill payment to Ukraine would have been a quid-pro-quo IF .. IF .. the money would ONLY have been paid AFTER Pres Zewlenski had announced or done an investigation as Pres Trump asked. BUT the truth is the money WAS released to Ukraine AND Javelins were also sold to Ukraine without .. WITHOUIT .. any announced investigation or any investigation at all. That my friends is a PRO-BONO deal!

#27 | Posted by SJHamilton at 2019-11-27 09:32 AM | Reply

IF .. IF .. the money would ONLY have been paid AFTER Pres Zewlenski had announced or done an investigation as Pres Trump asked.

The ASK is bribery. By definition there doesn't have to be any return by the person who was bribed.

Bribery. The federal bribery statute, 18 U.S.C. 201(b), criminalizes the corrupt promise or transfer of any thing of value to influence an official act of a federal official, a fraud on the United States, or the commission or omission of any act in violation of the official's duty.
Reality is that when Trump released the memorandum of his conversation documenting that he asked Zelensky for a favor, he released the confession of his guilt.

#28 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-11-27 09:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BUT the truth is the money WAS released to Ukraine AND Javelins were also sold to Ukraine without .. WITHOUIT .. any announced investigation or any investigation at all.

#27 | Posted by SJHamilton at 2019-11-27 09:32 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

#27 | Posted by SJHamilton at

The truth is, and we know you know it, is that Ukraine was on the verge of making the announcements demanded and stopped only after Trump's plot was revealed publically.

Likewise, the (illegally held) money was only released to Ukraine after Trump was caught.

So an honest man would say there was a quid pro quo-an extortion, a bribe. But that's not you, is it?

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-27 10:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#27 | Posted by SJHamilton at

Trump supporters aren't honest people, SJ. If they were they wouldn't keep jumping up and down about what an honest man Donald is when he steals millions from veterans.

Here's a little test for you, SJ. Repeat after me (just type, really)....Donald Trump stole two-million dollars from American war veterans.

It's a simple test, so you're sure to flunk it.

#30 | Posted by Zed at 2019-11-27 10:03 AM | Reply

#10 | Posted by iragoldberg

Speaking of not knowing basic facts... Every single you stated was factually incorrect.

Let me just start by saying Zelensky was elected during Trump's presidency mainly as a reaction to the lack of work on corruption. Obviously Obama has nothing to do with his presidency and take on corruption at all - zero.

The founder of Crowdstrike? CrowdStrike was co-founded by George Kurtz (CEO), Dmitri Alperovitch (CTO) and Gregg Marston (CFO). You are referring to Dmitri Alperovitch. Dmitri is not "anti-Russian". He is anti-Putin and anti-corruption - big difference. He emigrated from Russia as a 14-year old. He is an American citizen who lives in Washington DC...

Let me finish by saying you apparently don't know your head from your a-- when it comes to computers.

#31 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-11-27 02:07 PM | Reply

I agree the pause of the $400Mill payment to Ukraine would have been a quid-pro-quo IF .. IF .. the money would ONLY have been paid AFTER Pres Zewlenski had announced or done an investigation as Pres Trump asked. BUT the truth is the money WAS released to Ukraine AND Javelins were also sold to Ukraine without .. WITHOUIT .. any announced investigation or any investigation at all. That my friends is a PRO-BONO deal!

#27 | Posted by SJHamilton

The money was released after it was revealed to Trump there was an official complaint made. Then a string of email messages show they were trying to come up with a cover story for why the aid was withheld - AFTER the fact. The truth is Trump and Co knew they were caught.

#32 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-11-27 02:15 PM | Reply

Trump Held Up Ukraine Aid Same Day as Call to Zelensky

Coincidence #999999999999999999999999

#33 | Posted by JOE at 2019-11-27 02:17 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2019 World Readable

Drudge Retort