Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, December 02, 2019

Opinion by: Saagar Enjeti At least somebody over at the New York Times is being fair to Bernie Sanders ... But interestingly enough it is conservative columnist Ross Douthat in a column that shook political Twitter titled the case for Bernie.

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If Saager Enjeti is the future of the conservative movement (economic justice for ordinary Americans before identity politics) then that would be a good thing.

#1 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-12-02 08:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Expect more of the "Red Scare! Part Deux" from the usual suspect trolls, claiming that Bernie is a scary Marxist-Leninist socialist, not a N European-ish social democrat.

en.wikipedia.org

He, Warren, Pete, Biden... any of the other candidates... are all better Pres material than Trump and all offer various measures of progressive policies that are better for America than any rwing GOP Trump policies.

#2 | Posted by Corky at 2019-12-02 11:47 PM | Reply

Oh lovely Corky is up to his same ole shtick from last time. He hasn't learnt one God damned thing from 2016. Not one damned thing.

#3 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-02 11:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#3

I learned that you'll be making Trump happy again by throwing away your vote on someone who cannot possibly win if the voters don't pick your favorite candidate in the primary... even if your favorite candidate begs you not to.

Of course, that's like learning pig latin.

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2019-12-03 01:00 AM | Reply

Well, No Malarkey here...

#5 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2019-12-03 01:07 AM | Reply

Bernie on the front page of the MIGHTY Drudge Retort!

#6 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-12-03 07:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"If Saager Enjeti is the future of the conservative movement (economic justice for ordinary Americans before identity politics) then that would be a good thing."

That's old school rationality, the way I understood conservatism when I was a young Republican. I think we're still a decade or more from returning to that kind of thinking.

"Sanders campaign gleefully sharing Ross Douthat piece that claims Bernie will abandon the libertarian's hated "culture wars" over race, gender, and equality. "

Fear mongering absent any real look at Sanders' entire political career. Or the true substance of Douthat's article.

#7 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-12-03 08:04 AM | Reply

Sorry Laura, but it is you who hasn't learned on thing since 2016. Trump sits in the WH because of voters like you. I don't think you didn't have the right to vote and think as you did but be aware, Trump sits in the WH because of voters like you not voters like Corky. Face the truth for once, either the Republican nominee or the Democratic nominee will be the next President, that's "winner takes all politics" which, unfortunately, is the system set up by the founders of the nation. I'm completely fine with changing the system but til we do it is what it is, like it or not. No independent has won the Presidency, even Theodore Roosevelt lost when he ran as the Bull Moose candidate. So, you can criticize Corky for dealing with reality but it is you who looks foolish and I don't say that to hurt your feelings, it's just the cold, hard truth about politics in the USA.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2019-12-03 08:50 AM | Reply

Sorry Laura, but it is you who hasn't learned on thing since 2016. Trump sits in the WH because of voters like you. I don't think you didn't have the right to vote and think as you did but be aware, Trump sits in the WH because of voters like you not voters like Corky. Face the truth for once, either the Republican nominee or the Democratic nominee will be the next President, that's "winner takes all politics" which, unfortunately, is the system set up by the founders of the nation. I'm completely fine with changing the system but til we do it is what it is, like it or not. No independent has won the Presidency, even Theodore Roosevelt lost when he ran as the Bull Moose candidate. So, you can criticize Corky for dealing with reality but it is you who looks foolish and I don't say that to hurt your feelings, it's just the cold, hard truth about politics in the USA.

POSTED BY DANNI AT 2019-12-03 08:50 AM | REPLY

No dear. It is you and people like you who haven't learnt a damned thing. You foisted Hillary upon us. Someone many voters felt abandoned them a long time ago by supporting policies that hurt them. Things like NAFTA GATT support for policies like TPP amongst others. Plus not many people liked her. You want us to vote your way give us someone to vote for and we will.

#9 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-03 09:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I wondered how this was calculated in FiveThirtyEight's endorsement count, where Biden has 152, Harris 95, and Bernie down at 48.

The short answer is it is not calculated at all. They give no value to newspaper endorsements. A 2020 candidate with 1% that dropped out counts more than NY Times? That's odd.

#10 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-12-03 10:04 AM | Reply

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"No dear. It is you and people like you who haven't learnt a damned thing. You foisted Hillary upon us.

No, that's not true and I have told you many times before, I voted for Bernie in the primary but then I listened to Bernie and did what he told me to do. I voted for Hillary in the general election and I am certainly not ashamed of that considering how few votes Trump won by in three swing states which allowed him to win.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2019-12-03 10:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bernie seems most electable among the Democrats to me, particularly because he's pro Second Amendment.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-03 12:56 PM | Reply

Bernie seems most electable among the Democrats to me, particularly because he's pro Second Amendment.

#12 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

That certainly helps his cause. His biggest problem is the "S" word.

It doesn't carry quite the stigma that it used to but it still does with older people.

"Socialist" will get hung around his neck in the general if he wins the nomination.

#13 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-03 02:02 PM | Reply

"Socialist" will get hung around his neck in the general if he wins the nomination.

Republicans call every Democrat a socialist. They called Obama a socialist. They called Hillary a socialist. They'll call Biden or Sanders a socialist. No matter who the 2020 nominee is, he/she will be called a socialist.

Sure, they'll have a couple more video/soundbytes with Sanders. But in the era of Trump, who repeats everything 50,000 times whether it's true or not, does that really make a difference? At some point you guys are the boy who cried wolf.

#14 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-03 02:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Joe,

I do agree with the 'Boy who cried Wolf' assessment. In this case the difference is Sanders called himself a Socialist for years so the sound bites will certainly resonate. As you are surely aware, a large segment of our voting population are low-information voters. That's why negative campaigning is so successful - it sways low info voters.

#15 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-03 02:24 PM | Reply

Just to be clear. For a large chunk of his life Sanders was truly an advocate for Socialism in the style of the USSR.

But, I'm pretty sure his views have evolved and what he favors is a generous welfare state funded by Capitalism which is what we see in Western Europe and Scandanavia.

#16 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-03 02:26 PM | Reply

-Republicans call every Democrat a socialist

Democrats call every republican a racist. The term doesn't necessarily stick.

But with Sanders......he actually wants to be called a socialist. Hillary and Obama didn't.

And no...I don't think Biden will get labeled a socialist. the GOP will try....but not get very far.

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 02:27 PM | Reply

"Expect more of the "Red Scare! Part Deux" from the usual suspect trolls, claiming that Bernie is a scary Marxist-Leninist socialist, not a N European-ish social democrat."

How many voters, specifically swing state voters, can make that distinction on election day?

Answer...not enough.

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 02:33 PM | Reply

In this case the difference is Sanders called himself a Socialist for years so the sound bites will certainly resonate.

My point is that, whether sound bytes exist or not, Trump will pound the table and call any Democrat a socialist so many times that i'm not sure audio or video or reality makes a difference.

#19 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-03 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

19

You think that just because Trump is going to accuse any democratic nominee of being a socialist, then it doesn't matter who the nominee is?

that term scares the crap out of a lot of people (lazy people) and we need a democratic nominee that's difficult to stick that label on.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 02:52 PM | Reply

Eberly, among the demographic that Joe Rogan speaks to, "Socialist" is not a bad word.

Bernie polled at 38% of military voters, compared to 25% for Hillary. I think he can get past the labeling issue. I think he largely has.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-03 02:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think he can get past the labeling issue. I think he largely has."

If he gets the nomination then I think he hasn't even started getting past it.

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 03:01 PM | Reply

You think that just because Trump is going to accuse any democratic nominee of being a socialist, then it doesn't matter who the nominee is?

Of course it makes a difference overall - but specifically in terms of the "socialist" accusation moving the needle with the electorate, i think the effect is negligible.

#23 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-03 03:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm fine with Sanders as president...the socialist thing doesn't bother me one bit. Even if it turned out he was a total psycho on it then congress, including his own party, would keep him from enacting any kind of a radical agenda...so again...no worries.

But I think Sanders will NOT handle a national campaign against Trump. I don't think he has it in him. He's honest and not a total POS, regardless of what you may think of his politics.

moderate New England liberals always struggle in a national campaign....Sanders isn't even a moderate liberal.

I just think he'll get squashed in the swing states. The GOP hit machine will just eviscerate him where it will hurt him the most.

#24 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 03:15 PM | Reply

I just think he'll get squashed in the swing states.

He beat Hillary in Wisconsin and Michigan. The swing states aren't all moderate.

#25 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-03 03:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm fine with Sanders as president...the socialist thing doesn't bother me one bit

Two words: Overton Window.

We are not a dictatorship and Sanders (or any POTUS) can only impose what is politically viable.

5 Democratic Senators have recently stated that under no circumstances would they vote to nuke the legislative filibuster.

This makes it extremely difficult for Democrats to pass massive (and potentially controversial) legislation with 50%+1.

It's impossible to restructure the entire economy via a stroke of the presidential pen.

#26 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-03 04:10 PM | Reply

#26 All the more reason a "socialist" president isn't a threat, other than perhaps moving that window slightly leftward. Perhaps that was your point.

#27 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-03 04:20 PM | Reply

Yes, Joe. That was my point.

I don't fear a "Socialist" president.

I've said it before - a good chunk of the country doesn't follow politics anywhere near as closely as you do, Joe.

For low-information voters, campaign ads of Bernie calling himself a Socialist will resonate, particularly with older folks.

#28 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-03 04:24 PM | Reply

-He beat Hillary in Wisconsin and Michigan. The swing states aren't all moderate.

doesn't matter...apples and oranges.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 04:42 PM | Reply

For low-information voters, campaign ads of Bernie calling himself a Socialist will resonate, particularly with older folks.
#28 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

That's fine, there are a lot of old folks who hear what Bernie has to say and agree with him. They realize what he's offering isn't socialism but government responsibility and accountability. One which has the benefit of all in mind, rather than one whose goal is to further enrich the rich.

#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-03 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"They realize what he's offering isn't socialism but government responsibility and accountability"

You're so sure of that you're willing to wager the next election on what those voters realize?

I think that's a foolish gamble. I think the GOP will scare the living shidt out of those folks.

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 05:05 PM | Reply

31

meaning that the GOP will scare those voters over Sanders.

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 05:06 PM | Reply

"You're so sure of that you're willing to wager the next election on what those voters realize?"

So who's the safer bet?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-03 05:38 PM | Reply

"But I think Sanders will NOT handle a national campaign against Trump. I don't think he has it in him. He's honest and not a total POS, regardless of what you may think of his politics."

Then who?

Who's -- if I'm reading your right -- dishonest and enough of a POS to compete with Trump?

(And why didn't Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush have those qualities for Republicans?)

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-03 05:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So who's the safer bet?
#33 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I'm still waiting for CORKY, or any other Biden supporter, to identify when the last time the "next in line" candidate won the presidency.

#35 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-12-03 05:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bush I, after Reagan, was next in line.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-03 05:46 PM | Reply

I think Biden or Warren are safer bets, even though they are different from each other...but remember...they have a "D" after their name.....so it's not that different.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-03 05:54 PM | Reply

Who's -- if I'm reading your right -- dishonest and enough of a POS to compete with Trump?

#34 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-12-03 05:42 PM | FLAG:

Hillary Clinton. She won the popular vote last time.

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-12-03 08:19 PM | Reply

So who's the safer bet?

Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton were guaranteed winners because they were all moderates who were going to appeal to moderate conservatives who were never going to vote for the Democratic candidate.

Safe bet? The person the left will vote for.

#39 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-04 03:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I think Biden or Warren are safer bets,

Biden comes of as a man lost in dementia. Democrats won't overlook his creepiness as easily are republicans do with their politicians. He'll be a bigger failure than Gore was.

Warren won't win. There are too many things in her past Republican are already using against her. She'll be fighting slander her entire run.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-04 03:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Some of you fools still want to vote for a moderate because they still claim they can take votes away from Trump, it wont happen its a BS strategy that does not work.

But about 50 percent of Americans dont vote, if you got a candidate that can get those people out to vote like Obama did you can win big and Bernie Sanders is the candidate that can do that

#41 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2019-12-04 07:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton were all guaranteed winners....

1st mistake is remembering it that way.

They were no such thing. You just mistakenly believed that then.

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-04 08:06 AM | Reply

-She'll be fighting slander her entire run.

It's nothing compared to what Sanders will be fighting.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-04 08:07 AM | Reply

Gore and Clinton both won the popular vote. They just didn't manage the swing states very well. Kerry was bad timing.

#44 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-04 08:10 AM | Reply

"But about 50 percent of Americans dont vote, if you got a candidate that can get those people out to vote like Obama did you can win big and Bernie Sanders is the candidate that can do that"

Sanders is not Obama.

Where is the evidence Sanders is going to mobilize voters who will otherwise stay home?

The disdain of trump isn't enough to mobilize democratic voters?

The unrealistic policies proposed by Sanders is what's going to get folks off their ass?

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-04 08:15 AM | Reply

"For low-information voters, campaign ads of Bernie calling himself a Socialist will resonate, particularly with older folks."

I thought that would be true in 2016, but I wonder in 2020 when the alternative is Trump as a known quantity rather than an untested could-go-either-way risk, if that prediction would hold?

#46 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-04 09:30 AM | Reply

"She'll be fighting slander her entire run."

Whoever becomes the Democratic nominee will be fighting slander and God knows what else the entire run. If you pretend otherwise, you are just kidding yourself.

#47 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-04 09:33 AM | Reply

"So who's the safer bet?"

There are none.

#48 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-04 09:34 AM | Reply

Short of an event that absolutely takes Trump out, the only way Bernie wins is if enough voters in swing states actually embrace the term "socialism".

When I say "embrace", I mean like this..."I favor socialism, I prefer socialism over capitalism. I realize that my vote for Bernie Sanders means I am a socialist, myself!" - voter in 2020 election.

The GOP will force voters to admit that if they vote for Sanders....they'll drill this into their heads 24/7.

IMO, that's a foolish route to take when you have other choices in the democratic field.

You all think it's a coincidence that Trump would commit illegal and impeachable offenses in order to get dirt on Biden? He's scared to death of him because Trump nor the GOP has an effective strategy to defeat him.

They have one with Sanders.

#49 | Posted by eberly at 2019-12-04 10:16 AM | Reply

Some of you fools still want to vote for a moderate because they still claim they can take votes away from Trump, it wont happen its a BS strategy that does not work.

But about 50 percent of Americans dont vote, if you got a candidate that can get those people out to vote like Obama did you can win big and Bernie Sanders is the candidate that can do that

#41 | POSTED BYPUNCHYPOSSUM

QFT

#50 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-12-04 03:39 PM | Reply

Here's Sanders biggest obstacle in the primaries: He's not a Democrat and political parties value loyalty and team play. Like a true Socialist he leeches off the Democratic party when it suits his purposes but ditches the party when it's no longer needed.
***
If he manages to secure the nomination, here's how I see him in the general:

Pro's: He's honest about who he is and he's honest about the policies he's advocating. We will not see a rush to the middle in the general with him. It's actually refreshing.

Con's: His health. The heart attack is a concern and it's absolutely a legitimate campaign issue.

Socialist. He's on record as being a self-described Socialist. The GOP loves to label Democrat candidates as Socialists. They got lambasted as being racists when they tried to label Obama as a Socialist. With Sanders, they can use his own words and it's something that will absolutely scare some older voters, especially low-information voters.

Math. The numbers associated with all of the new spending he's proposing are eye-popping and honestly reporting those numbers will have an impact on anyone concerned about the debt and the trajectory of mandatory spending.
***
If the election were to be held tomorrow and my choices were Trump or Biden, I'd vote Biden. Trump or Gabbard? Gabbard. Trump or any other Democrat candidate? 3rd Party.

Part of me wants to see Sanders or Warren win the nomination just see we can put an end to the nonstop hypotheticals re: If only we'd have nominated a true Progressive we would have won the election.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-04 03:57 PM | Reply

You all think it's a coincidence that Trump would commit illegal and impeachable offenses in order to get dirt on Biden? He's scared to death of him because Trump nor the GOP has an effective strategy to defeat him.

Or it could be that he went to the lengths he did to go after Biden because Biden leads virtually every national poll and has since he announced. If Sanders were the most likely person to be nominated it's very likely Trump would have done something equally crazy to try to disqualify him. It's who he is.

#52 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-04 04:33 PM | Reply

If the election were to be held tomorrow and my choices were Trump or Biden, I'd vote Biden

Biden supports a $15 national minimum wage, free college, a carbon tax, and an assault weapons ban.

Nice to have you aboard!

#53 | Posted by JOE at 2019-12-04 04:44 PM | Reply

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