Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, December 05, 2019

Drawings done in captivity by the first prisoner known to undergo "enhanced interrogation" portray his account of what happened to him in vivid and disturbing ways.

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Excruciating.

#1 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2019-12-05 07:14 AM | Reply

The same people who hated George Bush and who were AGAINST the Iraq War ARE NOW palling around with Dubya The War Criminal.

And when this is pointed out by REAL progressives who are anti-war and anti-Military-Industrial-Complex, they hack-tastically get smeared by hackish establishment Democrats and anti-Trump hacks who buy into the BS pro-war narratives vomited out by MSM outlets like MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo.

Tulsi Gabbard 2020 (as Bernie's Veep)

#2 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-12-05 07:29 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Tulsi Gabbard 2020 (as Bernie's Veep)

#2 | Posted by PinchALoaf

Yeah that way the russians would have an asset in the white house no matter who wins.

#3 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-12-05 09:53 PM | Reply

Yeah that way the russians would have an asset in the white house no matter who wins.
#3 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Which is to say Mueller didn't come to the conclusion the left was banking on.

#4 | Posted by Ray at 2019-12-05 09:59 PM | Reply

The two guys who sold the EIT (enhanced interrogation techniques) had no prior experience. The program was a dud. They didn't get any actionable intelligence.

The FBI's interrogation methods, done through gaining rapport, are much more effective.

#5 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-12-06 02:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The program was a dud. They didn't get any actionable intelligence.

Just like child separation,
The cruelty was the point.

It was never intended to gather intelligence.
It was intended to send the message that we will torture our enemies.

ISIS putting orange jumpsuits on prisoners -- before shooting them in the back of the head -- was the call and response of the torturer's ritual song. One hand washes the other, with the blood of the innocent.

Congratulations, Republicans.
You built that!

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 02:33 AM | Reply

"The program was a dud. They didn't get any actionable intelligence."

Yeah.

They just got lucky on the Bin Laden raid.

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 03:47 AM | Reply

Getting OBL justifies torturing a lot of people who didn't know where OBL was?

I'd like to see your math on that one!

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 04:00 AM | Reply

"In August 2010, a former Pakistani intelligence officer approached the U.S. embassy station chief in Islamabad and offered to reveal bin Laden's location, in return for the $25 million reward, according to a retired senior U.S. intelligence official. This story was corroborated by two U.S. intelligence officials speaking to NBC News, and had been previously reported by intelligence analystRaelynn Hillhouse."

Torture didn't have anything to do with it.

Torture simply satisfies your moral cravings.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 04:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Getting OBL justifies torturing a lot of people who didn't know where OBL was?"

Yep.

What you're calling torture is a temporary and reversible condition best characteristic as placing individuals in extreme discomfort. In reality, what they experience is similar to what Special Operations troops experience through the course of their training.

Do you really think the Navy SEALs are going to inflict permanent harm on someone they've spent a lot of time and money on?

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 05:58 AM | Reply

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"Torture simply satisfies your moral cravings."

Not really. I just don't give a ---- about someone involved in an organization like Al Qaeda. Kinda like I have little concern for SS men and officers who were executed on the battlefield during WWII. Because they died by the same code they chose to live by.

#11 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 06:00 AM | Reply

Yeah that way the russians would have an asset in the white house no matter who wins.

#3 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Is that a joke?

Or does Hillary Clinton, the Queen of Warmongers, have her hand up your ass making your lips move?

#12 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-12-06 07:07 AM | Reply

Or does Hillary Clinton, the Queen of Warmongers, have her hand up your ass making your lips move?

He'd waterboard a million innocent Russians without a second thought (or a shred of evidence) if Hillary scared him enough.

#13 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2019-12-06 07:20 AM | Reply

Say whatever horrible things you need to vent your spleen but Hillary was never a Russian asset like Trump is.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2019-12-06 08:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Do you really think the Navy SEALs are going to inflict permanent harm on someone they've spent a lot of time and money on?

#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2019-12-06 05:58 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

The seals are killers. Don't make em cute and furry. We train them to kill and that's what they do.

#15 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-12-06 09:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#10 | Posted by madbomber

That post and the false equivalence is not only appallingly naive it is simply appalling.

What they went through is not what special forces go through. Not even remotely the same. Special Forces do what they do for a reason and they do it willingly - they can quit at any time. But those that see it through know there is an end in site. Their torment does not go on for days, weeks and months. They are not subjected to things like repeated water boarding. They are not forced to sleep naked in cold concrete cells without blankets for weeks and months. These people had no idea what would actually happen to them or when it might end.

#16 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-12-06 09:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's only a war crime if you lost the war...

otherwise it's just horseplay among grownups who should know better...

#17 | Posted by Pegasus at 2019-12-06 09:51 AM | Reply

"What they went through is not what special forces go through."

Sleep depravation? Check. SEALs are allotted four hours of sleep during the five day period they call hell week.

Waterboarding? Check...sort of. The go through drown proofing, where the much more severe act of drowning routinely occurs. It's OK though...they bring you back.

I never went through SF training, but I did attend SERE, where you are beaten, stuffed in cages, doused in cold water, and much more.

"But those that see it through know there is an end in site."

There is always an end is sight. Answer the questions you're asked truthfully.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 10:38 AM | Reply

To me, the real value in the concept of torture is not the torture itself, but the belief amongst your adversaries that you are more than willing to commit torture in order to get the information you need.

And I am positive that not ISIS, AQ, or any other Islamic organization fears the US anywhere near as much as they fear Russia, Syria, China, or really any other state they're likely to come in contact with.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 10:40 AM | Reply

Stuff like this makes me so angry. You tortured someone? Really? I get upset if I don't get a clean kill. I hate watching living things suffer.

#20 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2019-12-06 11:24 AM | Reply

"I get upset if I don't get a clean kill. I hate watching living things suffer."

You don't have to like it. It would be creepy if you did.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 11:29 AM | Reply

#18 | Posted by madbomber

You should have seen my chemical warfare training. In one part they put you in a concrete block-house and fill it with tear/vomit gas. Then you have to take off your gas-mask and sing the national anthem.

And you wouldn't believe the size of the needle on the nerve agent antidote auto-injector. That's why you have to stick in their butt, thigh also possible maybe.

#22 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2019-12-06 11:31 AM | Reply

#11 | Posted by madbomber

That's a hard thing to say. Remember that the purpose of a penitentiary is to make you penitent. Nobody is beyond saving.

Well okay maybe not. Yeah it's a hard argument to support.

#23 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2019-12-06 11:50 AM | Reply

#22

I would believe it.

Not sure how old you are, but I went through the same (or similar) training in 1994. Years later, as an aviator, I was forced to participate in exercises where you had to wear what was called the Aircrew Chemcial Defense Ensemble when you flew.

I think I would have preferred exposure followed by the 2Pam Hydorchloride injected by a giant needle.

#24 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 12:50 PM | Reply

"That's a hard thing to say. Remember that the purpose of a penitentiary is to make you penitent. Nobody is beyond saving."

You're injecting emotion. No need. Objectively, even the most committed terrorist sees himself not as an agent of evil, but an agent of good. We're the monsters.

Why would someone be penitent about having done what they believed was the right thing?

#25 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 12:52 PM | Reply

He's injecting emotion and you're injecting ignorance. Not sure I prefer either

#26 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-12-06 12:59 PM | Reply

"Getting OBL justifies torturing a lot of people who didn't know where OBL was?"

Yep."

Really, it's okay to torture people who don't even have the information you're looking for?

I can't imagine what sort of logic is at work in your mind.

They didn't volunteer to be tortured. You make voluntaryism the centerpiece of your moral society. Why is government coercion at gunpoint suddenly now appropriate?

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 01:01 PM | Reply

"What you're calling torture is a temporary and reversible condition"

So like a broken bone, or having your fingernails ripped off with pliers, or a mock execution.

All temporary and reversible, and therefore 100% never torture.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 01:04 PM | Reply

"Why is government coercion at gunpoint suddenly now appropriate?"

Easy: He believes he'll always be the one holding the gun.

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-06 01:07 PM | Reply

"To me, the real value in the concept of torture is not the torture itself, but the belief amongst your adversaries that you are more than willing to commit torture in order to get the information you need."

So you solemnly nodded with keen understanding and sympathetic approval when ISIS fitted their detainees in Gitmo-style orange jumpsuits before executing them.

It seems your role model is Marlon Brando from Apocalypse Now.

Cutting off arms of is the path to security, injecting them with vaccines makes us vulnerable.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 01:12 PM | Reply

"He's injecting emotion and you're injecting ignorance. Not sure I prefer either"

Ignorance?

How much experience do you have within the Intelligence Community?

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 01:23 PM | Reply

"They didn't volunteer to be tortured."

Just randomly picked up off the street fer no good reason, you
say?

"Easy: He believes he'll always be the one holding the gun."

The only reason I was obligated to attend I did was to prepare me for the time when I was captured by an enemy combatant and possibly held subject to harsh interrogation methods.

Today, if you're caught by someone like Abu Zubaydah, torture would be followed with a very public beheading. If you were one of the lucky ones.

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 01:27 PM | Reply

Ignorance?
How much experience do you have within the Intelligence Community?

#31 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2019-12-06 01:23 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Apparently a million times more than you

#33 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-12-06 01:30 PM | Reply

"It seems your role model is Marlon Brando from Apocalypse Now."

Horror has a face ... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.

Good movie...even better quotes.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 01:30 PM | Reply

"Apparently a million times more than you"

Yeah?

What's your background?

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 01:30 PM | Reply

All-source? ISR? Fusion? Targeting?

Maybe one of the "ints?"

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 01:32 PM | Reply

"Today, if you're caught by someone like Abu Zubaydah, torture would be followed with a very public beheading. If you were one of the lucky ones."

It sounds like your training was woefully inadequate, then.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 03:30 PM | Reply

"Good movie...even better quotes."

Sure.
Kurtz is a moral beacon, for people like you.
That's kind of the point of the movie.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 03:32 PM | Reply

"It sounds like your training was woefully inadequate, then."

True.

Not sure what sort of training can help keep you alive in the hands of a committed Islamist.

It might be better to go back to issuing cyanide tablets.

Aviators are always issued a 9mm with a couple of mags. I always made the recommendation that dudes save the last round for themselves if it came down to it. Kill a few if you can, but don't get captured.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 03:34 PM | Reply

#38

That is literally, 100%, not the point of the movie.

Stop talking. You'd be better off trying to interpret SpongeBob. Crawl before you sprint.

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 03:37 PM | Reply

"Not sure what sort of training can help keep you alive in the hands of a committed Islamist."

How about if you provide the information their captors are looking for, under torture?
Or does that not work any better than when the people we tortured to death provided information, in hopes they might live?

To answer your question, I recommend training in the Hadith and the Five Pillars.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 03:38 PM | Reply

Unless you're going to go to Syria and buy a Yazidi slave girl anyway.

I think lots of Mohammeds had their first with slave girls. Maybe even the first Mohammed.

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 03:39 PM | Reply

"That is literally, 100%, not the point of the movie."

It's based on "Heart of Darkness."
Which is the kind of heart Kurtz had.
And the kind of heart you have.

Congratulations, you built that!

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 03:39 PM | Reply

#41

You can covert.

ISIS is very dogmatic when it comes to Islamic law. If a prisoner converts, he would be protected.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 03:42 PM | Reply

"It's based on "Heart of Darkness."

Did you ever read "Heart of Darkness?"

Didn't think so.

But I did. Premise is quite different. You can find some comparisons if you're willing to stretch a little, but HoD wasn't nearly as dark or as cynical as AN.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 03:44 PM | Reply

"but HoD wasn't nearly as dark or as cynical as AN."

Yes, it's a story about the moral clarity of Kurtz, who just needed a few more goons under his command to subdue the population through fear.

Thus, it's also about failed liberals, who will never understand why chopping off arms brings more order to society -- is better for society -- than giving children the opportunity at a life free of disease.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 03:55 PM | Reply

Konrad's "Heart of Darkness" (as I see it) was more a protest of European colonialism in Africa. It was a critique of colonialism

Apocalypse Now (as I see it) is more complicated because there is not really a single term to define it. Kurtz disliked the hypocrisy of the US, where it was OK to carpet bomb entire villages, but incorrect to write **** on a plane because it's obscene. Really, he's challenging political correctness.

The biggest thing for me-and it's crazy it's in a movie, is the understanding that an enemy doesn't need the technology, or money, or outside support, or anything else in order to win. You just have to be more committed than your opponent. Which is exactly why we are in Afghanistan 18.5 years later.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-06 04:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Note that this guy also lost his eye to the CIA. Mad mistakenly calls them the SEALS too. Also applies Econ101 bs to war.

The ridiculousness of this just doesn't end.

#48 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-12-06 04:49 PM | Reply

"You just have to be more committed than your opponent. Which is exactly why we are in Afghanistan 18.5 years later."

There's the moral clarity you and Kurtz share.
The only way to win in Afghanistan is by cutting off arms.
Trying to help people... what's that sign say at the duck pond... Please Don't Feed The Animals.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-06 05:06 PM | Reply

I always thought that madbomber was some kind of anarchist until he/she came came out MLP.

The more you know.

#50 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2019-12-07 06:30 PM | Reply

Madbomber is not a dumb guy. I don't agree with him on stuff, but he has a brain, for sure.

#51 | Posted by hamburglar at 2019-12-07 07:00 PM | Reply

Speaking of cutting off arms... anybody watch UHF for free on Youtube? www.youtube.com

#52 | Posted by hamburglar at 2019-12-07 07:05 PM | Reply

"There's the moral clarity you and Kurtz share. The only way to win in Afghanistan is by cutting off arms."

If the cutting off of arms is what it's going to take for a country to win a war, that's a decision they need to make. But there is no reason to go to war if you're not willing to do what it takes to win. That will just result in the senseless killing of people on both sides.

Had we approach the war with Japan the same way we approach wars today, we would have lost. Period. The war against Japan was won because they were given a choice of either surrendering, or being wiped of the face of the planet.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-12-08 04:43 AM | Reply

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