Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, December 13, 2019

In a late Thursday interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity, McConnell (R-Ky.) all but guaranteed a Trump acquittal, saying there was "zero chance" the president would be removed from office, and promised "total coordination" with the White House and Trump's defense team.

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Maybe he just means there will be a comfy Green Room backstage for the rwing stars of this version of Trump's new reality TV show... where Yurtle plays, "The Apprentice".

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2019-12-13 03:16 PM | Reply

The jury coordinating with the accused.

Any pretense that the GOP cares about the constitution or their oath of office has been strangled and tossed in the ocean.

#2 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-12-13 03:42 PM | Reply

Trump wants a full blown trial with witnesses and Yertle is trying to talk him out of it. If Trump gets his way he will be convicted because all the evidence now hidden will come out. And even if the Bidens are put on the stand, it still won't matter as it regards Trump's guilt encapsulated in the Articles' charges once the hidden transcripts and documentation are introduced.

This time, I hope Trump gets his way.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 03:43 PM | Reply

There are two wild cards. First, Chief Justice Roberts, and second Romney, Murkowski, Collins, and a couple others. The trial rules have to be passed on a majority vote and it's hard to see 51 actually deciding to let Trump turn the Senate chamber into his personal Hannity/InfoWars schitshow, with feces-throwing monkeys swinging from the rafters.

And I don't see Roberts allowing wholly non-related witnesses that have nothing of probative value to testify about being used as pinatas.

Guess we'll see.

#4 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 03:48 PM | Reply

So the GOP is planning on running a kangaroo court.

Yet again, they're guilty of what they accuse others of doing.

#5 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-13 04:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If this were Democrats and Obama was the one impeached and they pulled something like this Jeff would lose his schit. It's the GOP however so he applauds it.

#6 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-13 04:26 PM | Reply

If this were Democrats and Obama was the one impeached and they pulled something like this Jeff would lose his schit. It's the GOP however so he applauds it.

#6 | Posted by LauraMohr at

JEFF is an authoritarian, but does not want to be dictated to by an African-American.

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2019-12-13 04:56 PM | Reply

There are two wild cards. First, Chief Justice Roberts, and second Romney, Murkowski, Collins, and a couple others. The trial rules have to be passed on a majority vote and it's hard to see 51 actually deciding to let Trump turn the Senate chamber into his personal Hannity/InfoWars schitshow, with feces-throwing monkeys swinging from the rafters.
And I don't see Roberts allowing wholly non-related witnesses that have nothing of probative value to testify about being used as pinatas.
Guess we'll see.
#4 | Posted by tonyroma a

You give republicans way too much credit.

#8 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Finish up with your showboating. I'll be waiting, just ready to fire a Sparrow missile at you...
--Dem candidate Amy McGrath

#9 | Posted by catdog at 2019-12-13 05:50 PM | Reply

If Nadler had the stones, he'd of put teeth in the subpoenas. Without fear of penalty, Republicans ignore him. Throw McGahan, Mulvaney and Rick Perry in jail. Democrats never use power. They're afraid of being unpopular.

#10 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-12-13 05:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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House Dem makes case: McConnell should recuse in impeachment trial

The Senate rules on impeachment trials require members to take this oath: "I solemnly swear (or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial of ____, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help me God."

Once a Senate leader vows to partner with a defendant's lawyers during a trial, it becomes difficult for that juror to swear to "do impartial justice" with a straight face.

Yep.

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 05:55 PM | Reply

#8

Yep. Ultimate power brings them to heel. Like Hillary wanted to do with Super-predators.

#12 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-12-13 06:00 PM | Reply

If McConnell recuses, Trump is toast. Won't happen. Too much $$.

#13 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2019-12-13 06:01 PM | Reply

P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N : Republicans have spent weeks insisting that the impeachment process is "rigged." The complaint hasn't been true in the House, but it looks like it's about to become true in the Senate.

#14 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 06:02 PM | Reply

If McConnell recuses,

McConnell not recusing on an established constitutional principle because McConnell has no principles.

It's just this hour's example of the GOP's complete evisceration of any law that stands in between themselves and their political goals.

They never defend a constitutional principle in service of the state or the nation. They only defend themselves from being constrained by any other authority in between themselves and the ends that they're seeking.

#15 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 06:09 PM | Reply

McConnell's not recusing....

#16 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 06:09 PM | Reply

I guarantee that Mitch will be every bit as impartial as Nancy and Jerry and the 100% of Democrats that will be voting in lock-step.

#17 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-12-13 06:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The Dems knew from the beginning that impeachment was DOA in the Senate.

#18 | Posted by Ray at 2019-12-13 06:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I guarantee that Mitch will be every bit as impartial as Nancy and Jerry and the 100% of Democrats that will be voting in lock-step.

The levels of outright, head-shaking idiocy contained in that statement boggles the mind.

And he has no earthly inkling of an idea why that's so.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 06:29 PM | Reply

Drag it out. Biden payback while they investigate and Warren and Sanders can stay off the campaign trail. You Lefties sure know how to kick ass. Har, har

#20 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-12-13 06:35 PM | Reply

aroma just doesn't understand partisan politics. Either does my Dog

#21 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-12-13 06:36 PM | Reply

If McConnell recuses, Trump is toast. Won't happen. Too much $$.

POSTED BY LEE_THE_AGENT AT 2019-12-13 06:01 PM | REPLY

McConnell is a Russian asset. He will protect his fellow Russian asset Trump at all costs.

#22 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-13 06:41 PM | Reply

The Dems knew from the beginning that impeachment was DOA in the Senate.

#18 | Posted by Ray

Yup.

It was a given from the get go that the GOP is a garbage pile that will sell their souls for power and money.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-13 06:45 PM | Reply

Larry, wtf? Who isn't a Russian Asset these days? Your Gender Doctor?

#24 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-12-13 06:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

But No Collusion!

And definitely no quid pro quo here!

The only thing missing is coordinating with Putin.

Oops.

Never mind.

www.theguardian.com

#25 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-12-13 06:50 PM | Reply

JPee thinks this last 3 years of crap was above board. But he is stupid so he has that on his side

#26 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-12-13 06:50 PM | Reply

What article is that in, Donnaboy? Or is that after the 2020 Election?

#27 | Posted by wisgod at 2019-12-13 06:52 PM | Reply

Trump wants his showboat trial, it's true. But I have to wonder if there's some other reason why McConnell is willing to do some horse trading with the House. Could it be that the Supremes have decided to take on the case of the "financial records" subpoena for the NYSD (who is cooperating with the House) and that might put a nail in Trump's coffin.

I'm just guessing but Mitch has been looking a little green around the gills. That arrogant sneer he calls a smile is missing. There has to be a reason why he's suddenly developed the jitters.

#28 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-12-13 06:54 PM | Reply

LOCK HIM UP! Throw Mcturtle in a cage!

#29 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2019-12-13 06:54 PM | Reply

Yet again, they're guilty of what they accuse others of doing.

#5 | POSTED BY JPW

That's how it works in politics.

The Democrats ran a very one-sided process in the House and the GOP is going to return the favor.

It sucks but it's just how things work in Washington.

#30 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 06:57 PM | Reply

both parties are the same!

-jeff

#31 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-12-13 06:59 PM | Reply

Two wrongs make a right!
--JeffJ

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-13 07:04 PM | Reply

Separation of powers?

How quaint.

#33 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-13 07:09 PM | Reply

#31 That's not always my take, however in this instance it is.

You can't credibly cry about McConnell running his side of the impeachment process in a similar manner as to how Democrats ran their side of it.

Personally, I don't have a problem with any of it.

#34 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It was a given from the get go that the GOP is a garbage pile that will sell their souls for power and money.

#23 | POSTED BY JPW

The problem ultimately is that the Democrats failed to move public opinion on impeachment. The last aggregate polling I saw had the public at 47% in favor of impeachment.

With that kind of public mood there is no way the GOP is going to vote for impeachment. Watch a few vulnerable Senate Democrats either vote against it or vote present.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:19 PM | Reply

" there is no way the GOP is going to vote for impeachment"

period, ever. (for a republican president)

#36 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-12-13 07:26 PM | Reply

The problem ultimately is that the Democrats failed to move public opinion on impeachment.

The real problem is that this impeachment has never been about politics, it's about Trump violating laws and his allegiance to faithfully defend the United States. He brazenly asks foreign governments to do things that only benefit him politically. What is gained by this nation if both Hunter and Joe Biden are locked up in Ukraine? Trump is a multi-case, court-determined fraud, he's an unindicted co-conspirator in a crime for which his former attorney now sits in jail, 6 of his former campaign officials are convicted felons, and citizens are supposed to believe that Trump is some champion of justice and an anti-corruption fighter when American taxpayer dollars have never had a thing to do with Burisma or Hunter Biden?

Do you ever step back and see how many formerly inviolate unmistakable lines you have to cross in normalizing this absurdity?

It's about doing the RIGHT thing, not the left thing.

#37 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 07:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" there is no way the GOP is going to vote for impeachment"
period, ever. (for a republican president)

POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2019-12-13 07:26 PM | REPLY

It sure destroys their Party of Responsibility meme they declared for a number of years. They take no responsibility at all.

#38 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-13 07:36 PM | Reply

"It sure destroys their Party of Responsibility meme"

The largest and fastest-growing cemetery in the world is the one where Republican Talking Points go to die.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-13 07:49 PM | Reply

"The problem ultimately is that the Democrats failed to move public opinion on impeachment. "

Oh, FFS, THE PROBLEM is in your mirror. Behavior you'd NEVER accept from a Democrat, you defend from a Republican. Your morals and standards change, based on the letter after the name.

For the record, you thought that was the problem in America until the day you embraced Trump.

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-13 07:53 PM | Reply

Tony, what Laws? no crime was attached to the Rules of Impeachment

American taxpayer dollars have never had a thing to do with Burisma or Hunter Biden? what are you smoking, I want some

new low for this country

#41 | Posted by Maverick at 2019-12-13 07:54 PM | Reply

Danforth,

I think Trump's actions with regards to Ukraine are impeachable.

Got any more straw you want to pull out of your arse?

#42 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:55 PM | Reply

period, ever. (for a republican president)

#36 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Now do Nixon.

#43 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:56 PM | Reply

Do you ever step back and see how many formerly inviolate unmistakable lines you have to cross in normalizing this absurdity?

It's about doing the RIGHT thing, not the left thing.

#37 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

I was simply pointing out political reality. That doesn't normalize anything.

Impeachment is a political remedy. Democrats failed to sway the public. Trump is not going to be removed from office. That is simply reality.

#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump is not going to be removed from office. That is simply reality.
#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:57 PM

IOW our country is ------

#45 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 07:59 PM | Reply

There was a thread a week or so ago about the divide in our country.

This is why there will be no compromise. Republicans are scum.

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 08:00 PM | Reply

This is why there will be no compromise. Republicans are scum.

#46 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

By compromise you mean go along and do everything Democrats want.

#47 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No, I mean once in a blue moon do something right.

maybe when they do something right I can respect them an iota.

#48 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 08:05 PM | Reply

"You can't credibly cry about McConnell running his side of the impeachment process in a similar manner as to how Democrats ran their side of it."

Seriously? Cry me a River.

Your complaints ring hollow.

No one would cry about anything if Republicans were as intent on protecting the constitution as Democrats are.

Impeachment is a constitutional process. And you only have the GOP to thank for the current process.

The process the Democrats have used is roughly analogous to the Clinton impeachment run by Republicans.

In both inquiries, the majority controlled the process of subpoena

For both. The normal rules of rapid-fire five-minute questioning by members were relaxed to allow for lengthier examination; and in both inquiries there are mechanisms by which the president could offer rebuttal evidence. Which he did not.

Trump hasn't even bothered to offer a defense of his actions. And then sits there and complains how unfair the process is. And you Republicans support this continued obstruction of Congress

What a sad joke Republicans have become.

#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-12-13 08:07 PM | Reply

#49

Donner,

I am not the one who is complaining.

Here is my post:

#31 That's not always my take, however in this instance it is.

You can't credibly cry about McConnell running his side of the impeachment process in a similar manner as to how Democrats ran their side of it.

Personally, I don't have a problem with any of it.

#34 | POSTED BY JEFFJ A


What part of, "I don't have a problem with any of it" signals complaining to you?

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:09 PM | Reply

That doesn't normalize anything.

Again, how can you be so blind as not to connect all that's going on? Trump has already gone in federal court and made the claim that not only does he retain absolute immunity from prosecution and indictment, no entity outside the Executive has the right to even investigate him while he sits in office. (And the attorney actually said Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave. and no LEO in America has the right to do anything to him about it until he's no longer President.

Trump isn't trying to defend himself from the impeachment charges by challenging the evidence and witnesses brought against him, he's demanding that the attempt of Congress to hold him accountable is in and of itself unconstitutional solely because he is the only one allowed to judge his own actions and intent. And if he says he did nothing wrong, it's now a travesty, or should be a crime if anyone tries to present evidence suggesting otherwise.

How is this not normalizing complete authoritarianism? No President has ever made claims this wild because no President before this one tried to claim that they alone determine how the complete federal government works. Don't like a law? Ignore it or say that it doesn't apply to you.

This is what is being normalized writ large.

#51 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 08:10 PM | Reply

You can't cry... but I don't care.

Right. Sure heffy.

#52 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-12-13 08:11 PM | Reply

- You can't credibly cry about McConnell running his side of the impeachment process in a similar manner as to how Democrats ran their side of it.

That's silly. It's like saying that accused in a criminal court case the accused gets to own the judge and the jury because the prosecutor werks for the People.

Try comparing apples to apples:

from the thread article;

"But the top Senate Democrat then, Sen. Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.), was much more meticulous than McConnell has been about maintaining the semblance of a fair trial process in his public statements. Daschle worked with the Senate majority leader at the time, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.), to write compromise rules that were approved by all 100 senators."

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2019-12-13 08:12 PM | Reply

I'm holding you to a consistent standard, Donner.

You want to have your cake and eat it too. It doesn't work that way.

#54 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:14 PM | Reply

Tony,

Nothing is being normalized by me.

I'm simply pointing out political reality.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:14 PM | Reply

You want to have your cake and eat it too. It doesn't work that way.

#54 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Not true at all. All I want I want is justice.

The Dems are doing their sworn duty. Protecting the constitution

What are the Republicans doing? Protecting trump is not even mentioned in their oaths.

I want no cake. I want justice. No man is above the law.

You can have the cake.

#56 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-12-13 08:17 PM | Reply

Has it occurred to any of you that the reason public sentiment hasn't moved is because maybe, just maybe, the case the Democrats produced is weak?

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:21 PM | Reply

I'm simply pointing out political reality.

#55 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You perceive what you want to perceive.

62.5 million Americans perceive things entirely differently than you.

#58 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-12-13 08:21 PM | Reply

#56 Impeachment is a political remedy, not a legal one. The only way it's ever going to succeed is with strong public support. In the absence of that we end up where we are at.

I don't know how Pelosi allowed herself to be bullied into this. She's normally smarter than that.

#59 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:22 PM | Reply

Has it occurred to any of you that the reason public sentiment hasn't moved is because maybe, just maybe, the case the Democrats produced is weak?

Has it occured to YOU that the Republicans have been running around with hair on fire screaming and hollering so that the public is so distracted that they unable to even understand the factual evidentiary basis behind the impeachment?

We want the FACTS OF THE CASE to move the public, not Dems screaming "Trump's bad!" like Republicans do in the opposite.

#60 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 08:25 PM | Reply

You perceive what you want to perceive.

62.5 million Americans perceive things entirely differently than you.
#58 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

This isn't about perception, it's about political reality.

When this goes to a vote not a single Republican is going to vote in favor and 6-12 Democrats will not vote to support.

When it goes to the Senate all 52 Republicans will vote against and at least 2 Democrat Senators will as well.

The end result of all of this will likely be the Democrats paying an elector price for pushing this through without popular support.

Granted, at this point those are all just predictions, but by all means, Hans this post and watch me prove to be correct.

#61 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump is not going to be removed from office. That is simply reality.
#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 07:57 PM

nope, it is because the American people are tired of Illegitimate President Bucket of ---- and his corruption and realize that no matter what the republicans in the Senate won't do a thing about it.

What is the point of caring when nothing will be done?

Corruption has been normalized and we have elected a king.

I really hope this bites a lot of Americans in the ass next November through January when that festering boil refuses to acknowledge a defeat in the election.

#62 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 08:26 PM | Reply

We want the FACTS OF THE CASE to move the public, not Dems screaming "Trump's bad!" like Republicans do in the opposite.

#60 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Well, for whatever reason the facts of the case are not moving the public.

It's not like the public hasn't been exposed. The MSM have been giving all of this wall-to-wall coverage.

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:27 PM | Reply

Corruption has been normalized and we have elected a king.

Quit being so dramatic.

Neither of those things are true.

#64 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:28 PM | Reply

Bribing a foreign government with US government funds to investigate your political rival IS corruption.

That thing the in WH is asking to be treated like, one an republicans are treating it like one, so we pretty much have.

#65 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 08:30 PM | Reply

treated like, one an republicans should be treated like one, and republicans

#66 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 08:31 PM | Reply

"How are we supposed to run a legitimate election if we have to contend with 60 million plus Americans who are willing to vote against us?" Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said in a press conference.

Democracy gets in the way sometimes

#67 | Posted by Maverick at 2019-12-13 08:44 PM | Reply

It's not like the public hasn't been exposed. The MSM have been giving all of this wall-to-wall coverage.

Fact-based impeachment can't penetrate the pro-Trump Web

The president's supporters flocked to online sites where they built their own version of events. The echo chambers that take hold on social media reach beyond the effects of media coverage partial to the president, which he promotes to counter fact-based reporting.

#68 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 08:44 PM | Reply

Neither of those things are true.

#64 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Both of those things are true.

Corruption is becoming normalized. Trump did nothing wrong!! It was a "perfect call "!!

Trump may not be a King. Yet. Fine.

But.

What do YOU call someone who is above the law and accountable to no one??

#69 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-12-13 08:45 PM | Reply

Apparently this is how the GOP plans to defend Trump's Ukraine call:

To this, the central charge in the articles of impeachment, Rep. Jim Jordan and others presented four specific facts. First, both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied. Second, the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions. Third, Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed. And fourth, aid flowed without any announcement of investigations. Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats' case, but lets look at them one by one.

thefederalist.com

It remains to be seen if this defense will resonat with the public.

#70 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-13 08:51 PM | Reply

remains to be seen if this defense will resonat with the public.

#70 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-12-13 08:51 PM

The highest suppport for the impeachment of Bill Clinton was 44%. His job approval rating was close to 70% when he was impeached.

Quit pretending public opinion matters to republicans when impeachment is the subject

#71 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-12-13 09:14 PM | Reply

To this, the central charge in the articles of impeachment, Rep. Jim Jordan and others presented four specific facts. First, both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied. Second, the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions. Third, Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed. And fourth, aid flowed without any announcement of investigations. Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats' case, but lets look at them one by one.

First, impeachment isn't about the phone call. That is just the first Republican distortion. Impeachment is about the entirety of the entire scheme that is being adjudicated. Second, after being told of another person's desire to gain something that you have to give, only in whacko-world does the reply "I'd like you to do me a favor, though" not constitute an indirect demand to that person in order for them to receive what was just asked for. Third, factually, Ukraine was always aware that the money was withheld because they expressed concern on the July day it was supposed to be released. They reached out to our government and said "Where's the money?" And fourth, the aid was only released after the hidden scheme of withholding it was about to become public due to the WB complaint. There is not a shred of evidence that the money would have been independently released when it was, absent the WB disclosure. Nor has the WH ever even floated a plausible explanation for that particular timing. They just make the claim without saying why.

#72 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 09:15 PM | Reply

First, both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied.-Irrelevant, no pressure needed
Second, the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions.-Even the WH admits there was quid pro quo
Third, Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed.-Irrelevant
And fourth, aid flowed without any announcement of investigations.-Because whistleblower blew whistle on bribery scheme

#73 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-12-13 09:21 PM | Reply

There's a nationwide "Nobody's Above the Law" call to march next Tuesday night all across America.

I expect record crowds in some very surprising (read:RED) places as well as massive crowds in the usual locales.

We'll see how public opinion goes after that.

#74 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 09:27 PM | Reply

Just for Jeffe:

This is the one thing the GOP hasn't counted on and it's the true public opinion as expressed by their constituents. It will take millions upon millions of Americans gathering during the winter, calling for the conviction of this President to effectively move the needle. No one should expect anything less than massive public displays to have any effect at all upon the GOP, but peaceful, mass demonstrations may just be the ticket.

#157 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2019-12-04 12:14 PM

Yeah, I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about....

#75 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-13 09:32 PM | Reply

It remains to be seen if this defense will resonat with the public.

Who cares? You don't need a defence when you have the votes in the Senate.

They might as well just let the Democrats present their case and then vote to acquit and be done with it.

#76 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-12-13 10:34 PM | Reply

"I think Trump's actions with regards to Ukraine are impeachable. "

And you'll spend the next 20,000 keystrokes throwing sand in the gears, as if a lie on a warrant about Carter Page somehow nullifies a President leveraging his Office (and your & my money) for political dirt.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-13 10:49 PM | Reply

" McConnell running his side of the impeachment process in a similar manner "

Nonsense. Dems tried to expose what actually happened; Mitch will try to obfuscate what actually happened.

180 degrees apart.

#78 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-13 10:53 PM | Reply

And you'll spend the next 20,000 keystrokes throwing sand in the gears, as if a lie on a warrant about Carter Page somehow nullifies a President leveraging his Office (and your & my money) for political dirt.

POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2019-12-13 10:49 PM | REPLY

Jeff speaketh with forked tongue.

#79 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-13 10:53 PM | Reply

#77

I knock down one Danforth straw man and he responds with another.

Typical.

Laura,

Please remove your gender fluid gums from my ankles.

#80 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 12:04 AM | Reply

"By compromise you mean go along and do everything Democrats want."

Nonsense. All that's asked is you don't change your reaction based on the letter after the name.

For example: How many keystrokes did you devote to bashing the Clinton Foundation? Keep in mind Gowdy, Nunes, Chaffetz, and a truckload of lawyers combed through the records with a fine-tooth comb, and decided Benghazi was a better chance at HRC.

Compare that to all the keystrokes you've devoted to taking Trump and his family to task for stealing over $2 million raised ostensibly for Veterans' charities.

What...you can't remember any?

No one else can either.

For the record, Trump's family admitted "misappropriating" the money, and three of Donnie's kids have to take court-ordered training to learn NOT TO STEAL FROM A CHARITY, a lesson daddy clearly forgot to teach. I'm sure you'll be along any minute to positively excoriate them.

#81 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 12:08 AM | Reply

McConnell is basically telling the world that the only way that Trump will not be removed from office is for us to cheat. If it were going to be a fair trial, Trump would lose, so we can't afford for it to be fair.

OCU

#82 | Posted by OCUser at 2019-12-14 12:41 AM | Reply

"By compromise you mean go along and do everything Democrats want."

Nonsense. All that's asked is you don't change your reaction based on the letter after the name....

#81 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

My irony meter pegged through the roof.

Horowitz just exposed abuses that far outweigh anything Trump is accused of and all you've done is obfuscate, deflect and ignore.

#83 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 12:59 AM | Reply

With that kind of public mood there is no way the GOP is going to vote for impeachment. Watch a few vulnerable Senate Democrats either vote against it or vote present.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL any excuse will do for you, eh?

Just admit you're a Trumper and never did nor will genuinely support impeachment.

#84 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 01:01 AM | Reply

Horowitz just exposed abuses that far outweigh anything Trump is accused of

#83 | Posted by JeffJ

What a load of schit.

#85 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 01:02 AM | Reply

McConnell is basically telling the world that the only way that Trump will not be removed from office is for us to cheat. If it were going to be a fair trial, Trump would lose, so we can't afford for it to be fair.

OCU

#82 | POSTED BY OCUSER A

Public support isn't there.

Democrats should have cut their losses.

They chose not to and now the only bipartisanship will; be a few House Dems and Senate Dems breaking ranks to vote against impeachment.

I honestly can't believe Pelosi allowed this to happen.

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 01:04 AM | Reply

I honestly can't believe Pelosi allowed this to happen.

#86 | Posted by JeffJ

People without standards or character will never understand either.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 01:15 AM | Reply

Horowitz just exposed abuses that far outweigh anything Trump is accused of and all you've done is obfuscate, deflect and ignore.

Nothing Horowitz found is in the same universe of seriousness as are the allegations regarding Trump. Trump violated the US Constitution and materially compromised the national security interests of TWO different countries pursuing his own personal gain through the statutorily illegal withholding of congressionally passed taxpayer funds, not to mention scheming to professionally demean a US ambassador and undermine his own official foreign policy objectives given her through her State Department chain of command. Trump violates his oath by his failure to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. That is the definition of the most egregious conduct the Founders could name.

The FBI wrongly fudged a warrant application for SURVEILLANCE that didn't end in charges or bring any harm to the one aggrieved individual impacted. If criminal, talk to all those wrongly imprisoned because the FBI broke the law in convicting them before you spin yourself dizzy about Carter Page, who walks around a completely free man that no one would know anything about if not for the Republicans who foist him into the limelight.

Worse?

You are nothing but a squawking, deluded embarrassment these days.

#88 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-14 01:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You are nothing but a squawking, deluded embarrassment these days.

#88 | Posted by tonyroma

Truth.

#89 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 01:19 AM | Reply

You clowns have become completely unhinged.

The Obama administration unlawfully spied on the opposition party campaign. That is 3rd world Banana Republic crap and it's been laid bare by the IG report. It is WAY worse than what Democrats are trying to impeach Trump over. What's worse is that what Horowitz uncovered may only be scratching the surface. Durham has FAR more resources than Horowitz and he's released a statement that the investigation itself wasn't adequately predicated.

Nothing Horowitz found is in the same universe of seriousness as are the allegations regarding Trump.

You're right - they are FAR worse.

#90 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 06:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What a load of schit.

#85 | POSTED BY JPW

You are a load of "schit".

#91 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 06:31 AM | Reply

The FBI wrongly fudged a warrant application for SURVEILLANCE that didn't end in charges or bring any harm to the one aggrieved individual impacted.

Uh huh. Try to lecture Carter Page that he wasn't harmed. He won't agree with your assessment and he's suing as a result of all of this.

But he's tied to Trump and this was conducted by the Obama administration so it's all good in your world, and JPW's too (he's far worse - you at least admit this stuff was wrong).

#92 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 06:40 AM | Reply

The Obama administration unlawfully spied on the opposition party campaign. That is 3rd world Banana Republic crap and it's been laid bare by the IG report. It is WAY worse than what Democrats are trying to impeach Trump over. What's worse is that what Horowitz uncovered may only be scratching the surface. Durham has FAR more resources than Horowitz and he's released a statement that the investigation itself wasn't adequately predicated.
Nothing Horowitz found is in the same universe of seriousness as are the allegations regarding Trump.
You're right - they are FAR worse.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-12-14 06:29 AM | REPLY

You are a fraudster.

apnews.com

FBI chief: No evidence of illegal spying on Trump campaign

#93 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-14 07:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If Trump committed an impeachable offense, the question of whether someone else did something as bad or worse is not a defense.

It is a Hannity-style red herring to keep repeating that FBI abuses "far outweigh" what Trump did.

Congress should be able to walk and chew gum. We can remove our corrupt president, we can revise FISA, and we can discipline bad law enforcement officers.

Stop obfuscating.

#94 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-14 07:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You are a load of "schit".

#91 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

For not being a sycophantic cultist who squawks about Obama and Hillary while excusing Trump's conduct.

Yeah, sure thing Jeff.

#95 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 10:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

FBI chief: No evidence of illegal spying on Trump campaign
#93 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

The IG report totally eviscerates that narrative you pathetic hack.

For not being a sycophantic cultist who squawks about Obama and Hillary while excusing Trump's conduct.

Yeah, sure thing Jeff.

#95 | POSTED BY JPW

Oh pleaase. You are the one who has been condoning unlawful spying due to your blind hatred of all things Trump and your sycophantic love of all things Obama. For you to sit there and pretend that everything was on the up and up in light of the IG report and testimony is flat-out absurd. Did DNCDan loan you his donkey suit or did you purchase one for yourself? You've become an absolute shill and, disappointingly this is a recent development. You haven't always been this way.

#96 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:16 AM | Reply

"You've become an absolute shill"

My irony meter exploded.

#97 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:18 AM | Reply

It is a Hannity-style red herring to keep repeating that FBI abuses "far outweigh" what Trump did.

I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Trump's actions with regard to Ukraine are impeachable.

That doesn't change the fact that the abuses uncovered by the IG are far worse.

#98 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:18 AM | Reply

"the abuses uncovered by the IG are far worse."

In your fevered dreams.

You probably wake up screaming "You had no right to discover my wrongs!!!

#99 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:19 AM | Reply

My irony meter exploded.

#97 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Of course it did.

I have flat-out stated that what Trump did was impeachable. I also excoriate what the IG brought to light and you sit there and staunchly defend it.

What color is your donkey suit today? Tan? Or is it light blue?

#100 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:20 AM | Reply

My guess is it's powder blue.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:20 AM | Reply

You probably wake up screaming "You had no right to discover my wrongs!!!

#99 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Are you related to Barack Obama?

Your stance is it's perfectly fine to unlawfully spy on a US citizen as long as the target is someone you don't like.

#102 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:22 AM | Reply

"Your stance is it's perfectly fine to unlawfully spy on a US citizen as long as the target is someone you don't like."

Nonsense. I'm just making fun of your stance that errors on a warrant are WORSE than a President abusing his office for his own political gain.

It's like someone slapped you with a shovel, and your IQ dropped 50 points.

#103 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:28 AM | Reply

"What color is your donkey suit today?"

Awwww...isn't that cute? Just because Jeff's morals change based on the letter after the name, he has to pretend everybody's does.

#104 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:31 AM | Reply

"I have flat-out stated that what Trump did was impeachable. "

And plan to pull the lever for Trump's enablers next time...after excoriating them, all the way up to the entrance of the voting booth!

#105 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:32 AM | Reply

Errors on a warrant.

How much water are you willing to carry.

You act like those errors were typos.

Those errors were actions. They actually happened and were plainly deliberate and extensive. Trump's intent was clearly corrupt, however nothing ever actually came about. Nothing happened.

What Horowitz exposed was WAY worse. People's lives were upended and entire institutions were sullied to the point where trust will be difficult to regain. The entire FISA process, something that is desperately needed in this day and age, is being questioned due to these abuses. Do you not understand how serious this is? And, to make matters worse, it appears that Horowitz may have only scratched the surface. Flynn's case is likely to be tossed due to gross prosecutorial misconduct and Durham, who is conducting a criminal investigation into all of this, issued a statement that Crossfire Hurricane wasn't adequately predicated and that's despite the low threshold needed to conduct a counter-intelligence investigation.

You laugh all of that off as just "errors." JPW does too.

You guys are WAY too smart to be this sycophantic and insouciant.

#106 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:34 AM | Reply

And plan to pull the lever for Trump's enablers next time...after excoriating them, all the way up to the entrance of the voting booth!

#105 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

You'll pull the levers of enablers of FAR worse conduct. Per usual.

#107 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:35 AM | Reply

"You act like those errors were typos. '

You've STATED those errors are worse than a Presidential abuse of power. You're a moron if you actually believe that.

"issued a statement that Crossfire Hurricane wasn't adequately predicated"

IOW, You had no right to discover my wrongs!

#108 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:37 AM | Reply

Awwww...isn't that cute? Just because Jeff's morals change based on the letter after the name, he has to pretend everybody's does.

#104 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Projection alert!

I'm here saying that both what Trump attempted to do AND what the IG uncovered were bad. DNCDan only sees fault with what Trump did. The serial abuses of the Obama administration are sloughed off as "errors".

#109 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:37 AM | Reply

"You'll pull the levers of enablers of FAR worse conduct.'

Did I say 50 points? More like 80.

#110 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:37 AM | Reply

"I'm here saying that both what Trump attempted to do AND what the IG uncovered were bad. "

So am I.

But you're saying the warrants are worse than if Biden asks Iran to hack into Saudi Arabia to get dirt on Jared Kushner's business deals, and offers to sell them arms if they succeed.

#111 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 11:39 AM | Reply

You've STATED those errors are worse than a Presidential abuse of power. You're a moron if you actually believe that.

I've laid out my reasons. All you've done is carry water for the DNC and FBI.

The Obama administration unlawfully spied on the Trump campaign and it carried over into his nascent presidency.

Had this occurred in late 2008-earlly 2009 you would have strapped on a suicide vest and tried to infiltrate the White House.

#112 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:40 AM | Reply

What do any errors in the FISA warrant application/renewal process have to do with the Ukraine scandal and the Articles of Impeachment?

Nothing, except that Trumpers want morons to believe they are somehow connected and that Trump is being mistreated.

#113 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-14 11:41 AM | Reply

So am I.

--------.

You've categorized what happened as honest mistakes.

You are full of it and it's been made plain over and over.

#114 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:41 AM | Reply

"You can't credibly cry about McConnell running his side of the impeachment process in a similar manner as to how Democrats ran their side of it."

Jeff misunderstands the process. The House didn't hold a trial, they held an indictment process. The defense doesn't ever get an opportunity to present a defense in such a process. That opportunity is left for the trial before a jury (Senate). And they will be allowed to present their defense, unfettered. Many of the Republicans completely understand the process because they are lawyers but they pretend not to when they yell and scream about the unfairness of the Impeachment proceedings. They are just putting on a show for the Trump base, they don't even believe 90% of the things they are yelling and screaming about. I am quite doubtful that the Trump base or even just fairly normal Republicans will figure that out or care about their duties according to the oaths they dishonestly took. I also doubt that enough of their constituents will care enough to object to violations of their oaths of office but the Democrats, who are not perfect, are giving everyone an opportunity to insist that oaths have importance even though they will probably be ignored.

#115 | Posted by danni at 2019-12-14 11:41 AM | Reply

Jeff,

Should Trump be impeached and removed from office?

Yes or no?

I vote yes.

You?

#116 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-14 11:43 AM | Reply

Yes

#117 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 11:59 AM | Reply

Anton,

Should certain members of the FBI and DOJ be prosecuted for what has been uncovered and is the broader investigation Durham is conducting warranted?

Yes or no?

I vote yes.

You?

#118 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 12:01 PM | Reply

Good. Thanks for making that clear.

#119 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-14 12:02 PM | Reply

Good. Thanks for making that clear.

#120 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-14 12:02 PM | Reply

Oh pleaase. You are the one who has been condoning unlawful spying due to your blind hatred of all things Trump and your sycophantic love of all things Obama.

You just can't help but insert your interpretation as fact...

I haven't condoned a damned thing.

Answer this truthfully. Do you really think they conducted the FISA process any differently when investigating Trump campaign members? Do you really think that what's been revealed is an investigative process outside the norm?

Because I've got a bridge to sell you if you do.

We've seen how the sausage gets made and that the process is what many people feared it would be.

The most noteworthy aspect in this whole mess remains the fact that a Presidential campaign was shady enough to warrant a counter intelligence investigation of multiple members. I'm sorry that your innocence has you hung up on the dirty way the process is done, but it's time to grow up, jeffy. Welcome to the real world.

#121 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 12:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That doesn't change the fact that the abuses uncovered by the IG are far worse.

#98 | Posted by JeffJ

You're hopeless.

This insistence is little more than a childish tantrum.

Like pinchaloaf finally realizing his preferred party isn't sparkling clean like the believed they were his entire life.

#122 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 12:05 PM | Reply

I realize that Trump has finally done something I consider an accomplishment!

He's such a ------- POS he finally forced a public explanation of the ability of the security state to intrude into citizen's lives.

Thanks Trump!

#123 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 12:09 PM | Reply

In face, I'll wager this is likely their good behavior.

This case was the highest of high profile, so it was likely as "by the book" as they ever are.

#124 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 12:11 PM | Reply

Jeff, yes.

One of the unintended good consequences of this whole affair may be that Republicans start taking seriously things like abuse of process by law enforcement, prosecutorial overreach, etc.

It's somewhat discouraging that has taken some negative impact upon wealthy and/or politically connected white people to get their attention. Black and brown people suffer this abuse a lot and go to jail for it and Republicans "back the Blue." But, whatever works, if it works, is good for me.

#125 | Posted by anton at 2019-12-14 12:19 PM | Reply

The Obama administration unlawfully spied on the Trump campaign and it carried over into his nascent presidency.

Is that the conclusion Horowitz came to? Hit us up with direct quotes and page numbers.

#126 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-14 12:24 PM | Reply

It's incredible how Trump's campaign being investigated due to worry about Russian influence.

Is as bad (in the minds of Trumpublicans) as Trump giving Putin everything he's wanted, giving North Korea what it wanted, giving The Saudis what they want, giving Turkey what it wants, destroying relationships between America and our allies, driving a further divide between a divided America, etc, etc, etc...

Party before country is destroying America. Republicans are complicit through and through.

#127 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-14 12:32 PM | Reply

Anton,

I have a glimmer of hope that mirrors yours. Fact is liberal Democrats are more distrusting of the surveillance state than conservative Republicans when politics are removed. My hope is that after the 2020 election (it won't happen before because of said politics) both parties will take a serious look at all of these abuses and will modify the system to add more transparency.

#128 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 12:46 PM | Reply

Answer this truthfully. Do you really think they conducted the FISA process any differently when investigating Trump campaign members? Do you really think that what's been revealed is an investigative process outside the norm? - JPW

Yes. At the end of the day a vast majority of these people are professionals who take their responsibilities and oaths very seriously.

I like how the narrative has changed. Before the IG report you were steadfastly adamant that the FISA warrants were properly obtained. And you excoriated anybody who pointed to the Nunes memo and all of the RW punditry that drew off of it as RW hack conspiracy theorists.

Now that this narrative has been blown up, you explain it all away as standard operating procedure, that it happens all of the time. And you do this in the same breath as being outraged that Trump is doing irreparable damage to these vital institutions with his criticisms of them, when what you are alleging is worse than what Trump is alleging. You are essentially saying that these institutions don't honestly investigate and prosecute anybody - that they pick their target and then unlawfully concoct a narrative for prosecution.

I don't fault you for buying the Schiff narrative over what Nunes produced. That was the consensus within the entirety of the MSM outside of outliers like Fox News and Kim Strassel at WSJ.

Unlike Danforth, at least you acknowledge that what happened was really bad. What's disappointing is that you've developed a new narrative in order to explain it all away - that it happens all of the time and it's just how the FBI and DOJ operate on a routine basis.

#129 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 12:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"you've developed a new narrative in order to explain it all away'

I'm not explaining any of it away; I'm pointing out anyone who believes it's worse than a President abusing his office and our tax dollars to shake down an ally during wartime for lies about his political opponent IS A ------- MORON.

That'd be you.

#130 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 12:57 PM | Reply

"Before the IG report you were steadfastly adamant that the FISA warrants were properly obtained. "

Feel free to post what you're claiming.

#131 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 12:58 PM | Reply

Bill Kristol @BillKristol

Lindsey Graham. "If a Republican president would have done this, let me just say this, it would be a good test for us..."

twitter.com

#132 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-14 01:04 PM | Reply

#129 | POSTED BY -----SWALLOWING JEFFJ

It's incredible witnessing just how much of Trump's ---- you can stomach.

#133 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-14 01:08 PM | Reply

"Before the IG report you were steadfastly adamant that the FISA warrants were properly obtained."

Since you brought it up, did the IG report say FISA warrants should not have been granted?

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 01:47 PM | Reply

I'm not explaining any of it away; I'm pointing out anyone who believes it's worse than a President abusing his office and our tax dollars to shake down an ally during wartime for lies about his political opponent IS A ------- MORON.

That'd be you.

#130 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

At the end of the day, nothing actually took place. They got their money and no investigation or announcement of such ever took place.

On the other side an administration actively spied on it's political opponent's campaign and did so in an unlawful manner. And you are apparently cool with it.

The only ------- moron is YOU.

You blow all of this off as simple errors, as if they were typos. At least JPW acknowledges that it was actually really bad - a schitt show, to quote him directly. You act is if it was nothing more than clerical errors.

#135 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 02:03 PM | Reply

an administration actively spied on it's political opponent's campaign and did so in an unlawful manner.

Unlawful because it was Obama?

Give it a rest Jeff. You're completely fine with Trump searching for dirt on Biden in an unlawful manner.

Keep drinking your Jizzaide.

#136 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-14 02:08 PM | Reply

"At the end of the day, nothing actually took place. "

At the end of the day, THEY WERE CAUGHT. At the end of the day, Trump hid the transcript, Morrison secreted it away in a code-file, and Vindman wasn't allowed to correct the record based on what he heard first-hand. At the end of the day, money was released to Ukraine on September 11th, BECAUSE TRUMP GOT CAUGHT. At the end of the day, the September 13th appearance on CNN was cancelled, BECAUSE TRUMP GOT CAUGHT.

"The only ------- moron is YOU. "

Keep telling your mirror that.

"You blow all of this off as simple errors'

Whereas you BLOW IT UP, as if it's in the same league as Presidential abuse of power. What a ------- idiot you turned out to be.

#137 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 02:09 PM | Reply

"And you are apparently cool with it."

STRAWMAN ALERT!

#138 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 02:11 PM | Reply

At the end of the day, nothing actually took place. They got their money and no investigation or announcement of such ever took place

You really have gone mackris level pathetic.

Did you hang your spine up or did you just act like you had one in the past?

#139 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 02:34 PM | Reply

For the nth time, I don't care whether or not anything happened - his intent was obvious and it was corrupt and is impeachable. At least I'm consistent, which is more than can be said for any of you.

Whereas you BLOW IT UP, as if it's in the same league as Presidential abuse of power. What a ------- idiot you turned out to be.

#137 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

So, you don't regard and administration unlawfully spying on it's opponent as a presidential abuse of power?

What a ------- idiot you turned out to be.

STRAWMAN ALERT!

#138 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Not once have I seen you characterize it as anything other than simple clerical errors. From that I construe that you don't give a ---- about it; that you are cool with it because of both the target and the party engaging in unlawful behavior.

#140 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 02:45 PM | Reply

Unlawful because it was Obama?
...

#136 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Unlawful because it was unlawful.

Are you as duplicitous as Danforth?

You normally don't excuse gross and unlawful abuse of power because Obama.

#141 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 02:47 PM | Reply

"Not once have I seen you characterize it as anything other than simple clerical errors. "

Well be all means, let me excoriate them for it. I've already said they errors should be investigated, and the FBI should address them and correct them.

What I didn't do was pretend ANY of the errors, or even ALL of the errors come close to Trump's abuse of his office. Your claim of WAY WORSE is what make you a ------- idiot.

#142 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 02:57 PM | Reply

"administration unlawfully spying on it's opponent '

Humpty away, Dumpty.

#143 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-12-14 02:58 PM | Reply

#140 the party being the FBI?

Or are you still running with this being politically motivated?

#144 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 03:06 PM | Reply

Since you brought it up, did the IG report say FISA warrants should not have been granted?

JeffJ?

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 03:10 PM | Reply

Roberts of the sc has his work cut out for him.

Will he show bias?

#146 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-12-14 03:38 PM | Reply

Or are you still running with this being politically motivated?

#144 | POSTED BY JPW

My belief is that it was extreme bias against Trump. Whether or not it was political or simply personal - not sure.

I also acknowledge that we don't yet have proof of that one way or another.

#147 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 03:52 PM | Reply

What I didn't do was pretend ANY of the errors, or even ALL of the errors come close to Trump's abuse of his office...because Obama.

#148 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-14 03:53 PM | Reply

"My belief is that it was extreme bias against Trump."

What is "it?"

Is it very fact that the investigation occurred in the first place?

You think the investigation was improper, and should never have been undertaken, correct?

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 03:57 PM | Reply

"I also acknowledge that we don't yet have proof of that one way or another."

And what changes, with proof of that one way or the other?

#150 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 03:58 PM | Reply

It's been sadly predictable to watch JeffJ's transition from Never Trumper to Full-Blown Trumper.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 04:06 PM | Reply

But hey, life is a journey of self-discovery, and I am glad JeffJ is finding out more about who he really is as a person.

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 04:08 PM | Reply

"What I didn't do was pretend ANY of the errors, or even ALL of the errors come close to Trump's abuse of his office...because Obama.
#148 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

^
This is an exemplary comment of how Deplorables delude themselves.

Seeing as Obama did all these things worthy of impeachment, why didn't the GOP-controlled House act?

They don't have an answer.
They just have anger.
"Bitter clingers."

#153 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 04:15 PM | Reply

Hey Jeff.

If you're running for President you should be investigated.

Your past should be public knowledge. Your finances. Your actions. Your affiliations.

There should be 100% transparency. Because you're up to be the PRESIDENT of the United States of America.

If there was a whisper in the intelligence community which led to Trump being investigated. I'm in favor of it.

This guy isn't running for block captain or manager at Walmart. He's the PRESIDENT of the United States of America.

The fact there's so much hidden about Trump. Why he's so close with Putin, Kim, the Saudis. Who he owes money to. Why he's obstructing justice. Why the DOJ and Republican Senate are so determined to obstruct justice. Should be concerning, if not terrifying, to every American.

Stop making excuses. Trump is objectively horrible for America. This shouldn't be a partisan issue.

#154 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-12-14 04:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I like how the narrative has changed. Before the IG report you were steadfastly adamant that the FISA warrants were properly obtained. And you excoriated anybody who pointed to the Nunes memo and all of the RW punditry that drew off of it as RW hack conspiracy theorists.

You keep inserting your revisionist history as the "narrative".

en.wikipedia.org

Again, and for the last time so stop lying your ass off constantly, the narrative was that the investigation was unfounded and politically motivated and that the warrants depended solely on the dossier and that it's source and political nature wasn't disclosed to the FISA judge.

None of which is true.

You are literally maintaining the truthfulness of conspiracy theories, Jeff.

My belief is that it was extreme bias against Trump. Whether or not it was political or simply personal - not sure.

I also acknowledge that we don't yet have proof of that one way or another.

#147 | Posted by JeffJ

Nonsense. Horowitz answers this explicitly.

Stop peddling nonsense because you want to believe it.

#155 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 06:38 PM | Reply

At least JPW acknowledges that it was actually really bad - a schitt show, to quote him directly. You act is if it was nothing more than clerical errors.

#135 | Posted by JeffJ

Where did I say that?

#156 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 06:40 PM | Reply

"I like how the narrative has changed."

Yours certainly has.
You used to say you would accept the conclusions of the IG report.
Now you vehemently oppose the conclusions of the IG report.

#157 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 06:40 PM | Reply

"You act is if it was nothing more than clerical errors."

You must not have an important job, to think clerical errors are a trivial, meaningless, inconsequential matter.
That's on you, JeffJ.

#158 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 06:41 PM | Reply

Now that this narrative has been blown up, you explain it all away as standard operating procedure, that it happens all of the time. And you do this in the same breath as being outraged that Trump is doing irreparable damage to these vital institutions with his criticisms of them, when what you are alleging is worse than what Trump is alleging. You are essentially saying that these institutions don't honestly investigate and prosecute anybody - that they pick their target and then unlawfully concoct a narrative for prosecution.

Jesus were you breathless when you typed that pile of hyperbolic nonsense?

of course they're creating narratives when investigating people and picking evidence to support it. Or were you under the impression that a neat trail of breadcrumbs is the only thing an investigation follows?

You sound so massively naive right now it's hilarious.

I don't fault you for buying the Schiff narrative over what Nunes produced. That was the consensus within the entirety of the MSM outside of outliers like Fox News and Kim Strassel at WSJ.

Except you're touting bullschit reported by bullschit outlets.

Nunes got shot to hell, rightly, for his garbage memo.

Same goes for every single "bombshell" rightwing media promised was coming. The most recent being that the FBI was a bunch of closet Hillary lovers who attempted a coup along with the nefarious "deep state" who was also, amazingly, nothing but Hillary lovers.

It's ------- disturbing that I'm typing something that absurd because there are people out there who believe it and fight for that mind set.

Unlike Danforth, at least you acknowledge that what happened was really bad. What's disappointing is that you've developed a new narrative in order to explain it all away - that it happens all of the time and it's just how the FBI and DOJ operate on a routine basis.

#129 | Posted by JeffJ

Just stop using the word narrative, dude. You're peddling bullschit while acting like everybody else is simply making stuff up.

Like I said, grow up dude. It's really unbecoming to be throwing such a tantrum at your age because you found out Santa wasn't real.

#159 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 06:49 PM | Reply

"My belief is that it was extreme bias against Trump. Whether or not it was political or simply personal - not sure."

Team Trump had over 100 contacts with Russians, and Trump hired two people who had previously been under investigation (Manafort and Page). Team Trump never told the FBI about being approached by the Russians, even after the FBI warned them. Why you consider the FBI seeing a series of red flags and responding to them as "extreme bias" is amazing to me.

#160 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-14 09:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The Obama administration unlawfully spied on the Trump campaign and it carried over into his nascent presidency."

I'll ask again:

Is that the conclusion Horowitz came to? Hit us up with direct quotes and page numbers.

#161 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-14 09:10 PM | Reply

#160

The Mueller report clearly identified collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, despite repeated denials from Trump and many of his senior advisers and close associates that there were any connections between the two campaigns.

A total of 272 contacts between Trump's team and Russia-linked operatives have been identified, including at least 38 meetings. And we know that at least 33 high-ranking campaign officials and Trump advisers were aware of contacts with Russia-linked operatives during the campaign and transition, including Trump himself. None of these contacts were ever reported to the proper authorities. Instead, the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.

272 documented campaign contacts with Russians, but the FBI was "spying" on the Trump campaign because of Page's warrant issues?

What a freakin' joke.

#162 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-12-14 09:29 PM | Reply

Why you consider the FBI seeing a series of red flags and responding to them as "extreme bias" is amazing to me.

#160 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Because he's finally been released from having to act non-partisan or intelligently.

#163 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 09:40 PM | Reply

272 documented campaign contacts with Russians, but the FBI was "spying" on the Trump campaign because of Page's warrant issues?

Noooooo. They "spied" because they're all pro-Hillary closet Dems with the power of the Deep State behind them.

#164 | Posted by jpw at 2019-12-14 09:45 PM | Reply

I read this today and it made me wonder about why Page had left the Trump campaign:

emptywheel @emptywheel

The "spying" "during a campaign" involved targeting someone who was HAD BEEN FIRED FROM THE CAMPAIGN bc of his RU ties for the last 18 days of the campaign.
twitter.com

It looks like Page was let go for the reason she states, but had his Russian talking points in place from the get-go:

Trump Campaign Adviser Steps Down While Disputing Claims Of Russia Ties

One of Donald Trump's foreign policy advisers said Monday he was stepping down from the campaign, while pushing back on allegations that he had engaged in private communications with top Russian officials.
talkingpointsmemo.com

Fired Trump Adviser Tells Moscow Audience How Great Exxon CEO Would Be For Russia

Carter Page, kicked off the campaign because of his ties to Russia, says he's "personally excited" about the likely secretary of State pick.

Page, too, dismissed the intelligence community's findings. "They really need to show more evidence, because there's nothing hard that pointed in the direction of Russia," he said of the hacking. "I think it very well could have been a setup [by the Obama administration], and I've talked to IT experts who think this is a very serious possibility."

www.huffpost.com

#165 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-12-14 10:01 PM | Reply

Because he's finally been released from having to act non-partisan or intelligently.

POSTED BY JPW AT 2019-12-14 09:40 PM | REPLY

FINALLY his faux fence sitting is long gone. The real Jeff reveals himself.

#166 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-12-14 11:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"My belief is that it was extreme bias against Trump."

Fact is, it was extreme bias against criminality.

So yes, I suppose that means it was necessarily extreme bias against Trump.

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 11:26 PM | Reply

JeffJ has kind of morphed into a Deplorable edition of John Cleese in the "Don't Mention The War!" episode of Fawlty Towers.

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-14 11:31 PM | Reply

Is that the conclusion Horowitz came to?

Did you watch his testimony. Yeah, that was the conclusion he reached.

#169 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-15 03:02 PM | Reply

Where did I say that?

#156 | POSTED BY JPW

On another thread on a different topic. I misquoted you, but not deliberately.

#170 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-15 03:03 PM | Reply

Nonsense. Horowitz answers this explicitly.

No he doesn't. He says that he found no evidentiary (i.e emails or texts explicitly stating the egregious errors were because they were trying to take down Trump without adequate predication) or testimonial (meaning when asked if they acted out of bias the answer was "no") evidence of bias. He also says the answers for these improper errors were unsatisfactory which means he can only speculate as to why they happened.

He agreed with Mike Lee that the only 2 explanations for these kinds of errors were gross incompetence or bias.

Nunes got shot to hell, rightly, for his garbage memo.

What planet are you living on? His memo was mostly vindicated and it was Schiff's who got shot to hell.

t how much is the Nunes memo itself vindicated? A fair amount, it turns out " at least in Horowitz's estimation.

www.washingtonpost.com

Your points are counter-factual and it's embarrassing to watch. Prior to the IG report any time someone would make the claim that the FISA warrants were based on the Steele dossier you'd go ballistic. Now that the IG report has been released it concludes that the Steele dossier was "central and essential" to the FISA warrant applications. Have you ever asked yourself how you got this so spectacularly wrong?

Team Trump had over 100 contacts with Russians, and Trump hired two people who had previously been under investigation (Manafort and Page). Team Trump never told the FBI about being approached by the Russians, even after the FBI warned them. Why you consider the FBI seeing a series of red flags and responding to them as "extreme bias" is amazing to me.

#160 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

You're conflating 2 different things. The IG report concludes (although Durham disagrees with this conclusion presumably because he has info that Horowitz wasn't privy to) that the investigation itself was adequately predicated. Until I see otherwise I'll go with the IG conclusion. So, initiating the investigation was all good. The bias (or gross incompetence) came into play with how the investigation was conducted. Danforth, and apparently JPW too, act like these were simple clerical errors. They weren't. The FBI knew the dossier was crap but presented it to FISC as accurate and reliable and failed to disclose that it was actually political oppo work. They even went so far as to alter a document and thus completely change what it conveyed. Those types of things don't happen accidentally and it's really naive, at best, to draw the conclusion

#171 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-15 03:22 PM | Reply

"The FBI knew the dossier was crap but presented it to FISC as accurate and reliable and failed to disclose that it was actually political oppo work."

^
That's not "bias in how the investigation was conducted."
That's how they got the warrant to conduct the investigation.

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-15 03:28 PM | Reply

To clarify, until I see otherwise my position, based upon the most official document we have available to us for now, is that bias did not play a role in opening the investigation and that the investigation was adequately predicated.

The bias (or gross incompetence) applies to how the investigation was carried out, based upon what we learned from the IG report, which mostly vindicates the Nunes memo and exposes Schiff as a liar, which becoming habitual for him.

#173 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-12-15 03:38 PM | Reply

"based upon what we learned from the IG report"

Sounds like you're talking about things which were not actually stated in the IG report.
But rather, stem from your interpretation of the IG report.
Correct?

#174 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-12-15 03:41 PM | Reply

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