Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, January 03, 2020

United Methodist Council of Bishops: A diverse group of representatives from United Methodist advocacy groups with contrasting views and bishops from around the world has collaborated on a proposed agreement for the separation of The United Methodist Church (UMC) that has the unanimous support of all the parties involved. The agreement, the Protocol of Reconciliation & Grace Through Separation, was achieved on December 17, 2019, and announced today. The action comes amid heightened tensions in the church over conflicting views related to human sexuality after the 2019 Special Session of the General Conference failed to resolve differences among church members. Legislation to implement the Protocol statement -- an eight-page document detailing the terms of a split of the 13+ million-member denomination -- is expected to come before the United Methodist General Conference for a vote at their legislative meeting in Minneapolis, Minn. in May 2020.

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No one will split if they lose their buildings.

$25M to the churches leaving? Is that supposed to be enough money?

#1 | Posted by Petrous at 2020-01-03 07:12 PM | Reply

Jesus would point, laugh, then cry if he were to come back and see what his alleged followers have wrought. There's not a damn one of the splintered christian sects that come close to his original teachings.

#2 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-03 07:30 PM | Reply

I love how the infallible wisdom of G-d can lead to an irreparable ideological schism.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-03 07:52 PM | Reply

Understand, I'm an atheist - but the basic philosophical teachings of christ are in no way bad in my opinion. As long as you remove the supernatural aspect of his teachings.

#4 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-03 07:59 PM | Reply

"but the basic philosophical teachings of christ are in no way bad in my opinion."

Worth discussing.
What are the basic philosophical teachings the Christ brings us regarding the gay marriage?

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-03 08:01 PM | Reply

Jn 8:11

#6 | Posted by Petrous at 2020-01-03 08:07 PM | Reply

You'll have to enlighten me, as i cannot find any specific commentary regarding this. Though there is some discussion regarding the lack of any commentary as an indirect condemnation of such. I have a feeling we are looking at this from very different viewpoints...my opinion is that a homosexual civil union is not the same as a marriage between a man and a woman. I don't need any religion to come to that conclusion, and i also don't have a problem with the aforementioned civil union.

#7 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-03 08:15 PM | Reply

One might think that since the Messiah was silent on such things as homosexuality, abortion, and Taco Tuesdays, then some denomination a couple of thousand years later might take a hint.

Organized religion is much less about the God described in the OT or the New Covenant of "peace and good will towards men (all people)" described in the NT... whether one believes in such things or not...organized religion is much more about people themselves; we as people have a tendency to make everything about ourselves, no matter the subject.

In those old texts, again, whether one believes them or not, the Law of the OT, the rules and regs, died with the Christ of the NT (who is forshadowed and predicted literally thousands of times in the OT; the Plan all along), who is described in the NT as an aspect of God "in a tent of human flesh"... and a person's behavior, lifestyle, or attitude isn't the focus of the NT, nor is their works, the "goodness" of such things they do nor the "badness" of those things.

The focus in the NT is on people's "faith, hope (often translated "charity"), and love, and the greatest of these is love."

"Love" per Paul the Apostle:

biblehub.com

Sometimes it seems like it's the self-proclaimed organized religious types and their denominations who don't read these texts.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2020-01-03 09:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Wow Corky, you're treading dangerously close to my own perspective.

#9 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-03 09:30 PM | Reply

#9

I'll watch my step ;)

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2020-01-03 09:45 PM | Reply

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You'd realize how hilarious that comment is to me right now if you saw my last post in another thread.

#11 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-03 09:50 PM | Reply

A sad day.

A friend of mine no longer knows which church he belongs to.

He feels strong ties to both factions.

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-03 11:57 PM | Reply

A sad day.

A friend of mine no longer knows which church he belongs to.

He feels strong ties to both factions.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-03 11:57 PM | Reply

#13

Your friend, and those contending in that denomination, are wasting their time and effort on minutiae.

There are, according to those texts, 2 or 3 things that separate us from God. The first is the hypocrisy of those in the church who preach for their own profit, which would not be, one supposes, limited to money and power, but would include this kind of intellectual and spiritual one-upmanship about who is the real sinner and who isn't.

News flash: everyone has, does, and will miss the mark of spiritual perfection while in the physical realm in one way or another, and carping about who does what that is or isn't worse than what anyone else does just makes evil want to go to Disney World to celebrate.

It's all completely irrelevant BS, and no one's business but God's and the people whose sexual preferences are in question. Paul said that we, "work out our own salvation with fear (respect) and trembling". He also says, "Call no man Father"; there is no responsible intermediary between us and God, not a Catholic Priest or a Methodist preacher or their stinkin' denomination.

The OT says that "God knows that we are but dust" and so has grace towards us.

Paul also said, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.".

Most of them don't have the first clue about, "spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.", and if they even believe in such things, they don't believe the part about them existing in "heavenly realms".

Jesus said that our religious traditions, "make void the Word of God", which is the second way people seperate themselves, and denominations their churches, from God.

These folks are wasting their time preening about their own supposedly righteous behavior and so busy condemning the behavior of others because they don't don't understand that, as I noted above, Christianity is not about them and their behavior, it is about God and man's faith in him.

Most of them don't have the first clue about, "spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.", and if they even believe in such things, they don't believe the part about them existing in "heavenly realms".

They might want to re-read their bibles.

For frak's sake, there are atheists and agnostics who show more love for their fellow humans than these people do.

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2020-01-04 12:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

but i repeated mah' self... poor editing actually. i'm nothing w/out Rogers, the Blog God

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2020-01-04 12:37 AM | Reply

I don't care what these people do within their own church, I'll never be a member anyway. I only care that our government recognize gay marriage and that it carries the same rights and benefits as any other marriage. Other than that the Methodists can divide into individual churchships for all I care. But when your superstitious nonsense starts telling you to take away some of my rights I will fight you with every ounce of strength I possess.

#16 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-04 09:04 AM | Reply

This is fascinating considering Methodists led the way on interracial marriages as well as a few other civil rights milestones.

Oh well.

#17 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-01-04 10:00 AM | Reply

"This is fascinating considering Methodists led the way on interracial marriages as well as a few other civil rights milestones."

I agree, I always had respect for their church but now only the part that isn't trying to turn some folks into second class citizens.

#18 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-04 11:11 AM | Reply

It looks like 53% of the Methodist Church in America voted in favor of supporting gay marriage but boots from overseas countries in Africa and Asia combined with the conservative elements in America overruled the Liberals.

It is an international denomination.

#19 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-04 01:06 PM | Reply

Err votes

#20 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-04 03:15 PM | Reply

Sad to read about this.

As a teenager, I was a member of the UMC. They taught peace, love, kindness towards others, etc.

#21 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-01-04 03:17 PM | Reply

Jesus did say marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman BUT he also mY have implied the rules laid out by God are there to help humans not be a burden and that when they become only a burden we can choose to retire them.

#22 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-04 03:59 PM | Reply

>>>Jesus did say marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman

I'm in no way a biblical expert, but could you provide the specific quote regarding this? From Jesus, not from anyone else in the OT or NT.

#23 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-04 08:12 PM | Reply

>>>Jesus did say marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman

I'm in no way a biblical expert, but could you provide the specific quote regarding this? From Jesus, not from anyone else in the OT or NT.

#23 | Posted by wranglepolitics

That would have been a great opportunity to win a $1000 bet you can't lose beCause it doesn't exist.

#24 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-01-04 09:03 PM | Reply

Shhhh! You're going to make them look up and read the actual teachings of Jesus, then what will I do?

#25 | Posted by wranglepolitics at 2020-01-04 09:15 PM | Reply

: "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh" (Mark 10:6"8).

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-05 04:42 PM | Reply

Mark 10:1-12 for context.

Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.

2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"

3 "What did Moses command you?" he replied.

4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."

5 "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. 6 "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female.'[a] 7 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.'[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

That passage is about divorce not gay marriage. Given full context it could be argued that the gender pronouns used are used in the general sense and not specific to "a man" this is reinforced as the correct reading by the final passage which provides disambiguation by clarifying that a woman who divorces her husband is just as guilty.

Makes you wonder how many divorces have used the passage that condemns their actions to condemn others.

#27 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-01-06 02:25 PM | Reply

Passage does denote marraige as between one man and one woman if only in passing.

#28 | Posted by Tor at 2020-01-06 02:34 PM | Reply

Tor,
2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"

^
Jesus is talking specifically about a man divorcing his wife.
His answer only "denotes" what was asked about, nothing more.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-06 02:39 PM | Reply

If you are not a Methodist, you probably don't really understand the nuanced issues that are dividing that congregation. When it comes to religious schisms, there are always numerous contextual issues and sub-issues.

#30 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-01-06 02:49 PM | Reply

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