Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, January 12, 2020

US regulators are seeking to fine Boeing $5.4m (4.14m) for "knowingly" installing faulty parts on 737 Max planes. The move comes after the release of internal messages that raised more questions about the jet's safety.

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Note: this is how capitalism works.

#1 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2020-01-12 12:42 PM | Reply

#1 - yep. And it is the state of American engineering nowadays.

Engineering is done by accountants. Accounting is done by lawyers. Lawyering is done by politicians. Politics is done by criminals.

#2 | Posted by kudzu at 2020-01-12 12:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 2

When contracts go to the lowest bidder. You tend to end up with inferior products.

#3 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-01-12 01:01 PM | Reply

#2 | POSTED BY KUDZU

Hint: its not engineering if there are no constraints.

This is a self-certification issue ...

FAA shouldn't have allowed self-certification, this is the same with the FDA etal agencies.

Note: this is how capitalism works.
#1 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Note: see show Chernobyl to see how "socialism" works.

#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-12 03:06 PM | Reply

If the fine were more like 5.4 Billion, the FAA could afford more enforcement agents and testing facilities.
A piddly little fine like the one proposed is nothing more than the price of doing business.

#5 | Posted by LesWit at 2020-01-12 04:16 PM | Reply

IOW, about 1/25 the cost of a 737.

Ouch.

#6 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-12 06:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#5 Boeing is too big to fail.

#7 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2020-01-12 10:41 PM | Reply

If the fine were more like 5.4 Billion, the FAA could afford more enforcement agents and testing facilities.

Its pretty simple ... charge Boeing for certification ...

#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-12 10:50 PM | Reply

#5 Boeing is too big to fail.

You don't think ... it shows...

#9 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-12 10:51 PM | Reply

Thanks, Capitalism!

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-12 10:55 PM | Reply

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"#5 Boeing is too big to fail.

#7 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER "

Actually Boeing is too big to be allowed to fail. Washington will do a Chrysler number on them if necessary, or even worse, a GMC and become part owner.

#11 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-12 10:58 PM | Reply

Boeing is too big to fail.

Actually Boeing is too big to be allowed to fail.

^
Yes, that's what the phrase means...

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-12 11:02 PM | Reply

#12 -- You have to argue about everything.

Sorry, not taking the bait this time.

#13 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-12 11:06 PM | Reply

Boeing is too big to fail.

Boeing is a defense contractor. They can't fail.

Civil aviation is just a sideline for them these days.

#14 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-01-12 11:49 PM | Reply

#1 - yep. And it is the state of American engineering nowadays.

Engineering is done by accountants. Accounting is done by lawyers. Lawyering is done by politicians. Politics is done by criminals.

Noticed how "corporate management" escaped criticism... it's ALWAYS engineering...

Being an engineer myself, I can't tell you how many times I've been blamed for corporate stupidity. But that was when I was much younger...

Nowadays, I just step out of the way. You really can't save the day... Corporate management knows all, see's all and you can't tell them no different.

Simply step back and let the corporate clown car hit the brick wall.

#15 | Posted by Pegasus at 2020-01-13 08:30 AM | Reply

Management that hid this should be in jail.

#16 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-01-13 11:47 AM | Reply

So $15,600 for every person they killed.

What the actual f.

#17 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-01-13 11:51 AM | Reply

Simply step back and let the corporate clown car hit the brick wall.

#15 | Posted by Pegasus at 2020-01-13 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

I could never live with myself if I did that and people lives were put at risk.

Boeing is too big to fail.

Boeing is a defense contractor. They can't fail.

Civil aviation is just a sideline for them these days.

#14 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-01-12 11:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Plus the management are members at Trampy's clubs. Can't actually hold them accountable or they would quit paying him money.

#18 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-01-13 11:54 AM | Reply

I could never live with myself if I did that and people lives were put at risk.

Your at risk every time you step on a commercial airliner...

Every major airline now uses companies in Mexico and South America to maintain their planes and do heavy C checks.

Let's see the differences....

In America.... you need an FAA A/P license to fix or repair commercial aircraft...

In South America, you don't need a license... you don't even need classes.... If you can fix a lawn mower, you can fix a jet.

Aircraft manufactures no longer ship repair manuals... the information is now shipped on CD's. Only in English as this is an International Treaty requirement.

In America.... most people can speak and write English.

In South America, the supervisor translates what is needed to be done from English to Spanish.

CD is all in standard English measurements...

In America.... we still use this measurement and are quite familiar with it...

In South America, everyone uses metric...no bother to use the correct English tool... just use a metric tool and keep trying different sizes till the nut stops spinning. Close enough is close enough. Whats 35 ftpounds in metric? Don't know? Then tighten nut till it's snug and then loosen a 1/4 of a turn.

I could never live with myself if I did that and people lives were put at risk.

I worked for a major airline and I quit when they started doing this. I'm a private pilot and I love flying but I have never set foot on an airliner since then... nor will I ever... Had to sign a NDA so I can't even tell you about the really bad stuff.

www.vanityfair.com

#19 | Posted by Pegasus at 2020-01-13 01:08 PM | Reply

19

okay...THAT does not make me feel good.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2020-01-13 02:01 PM | Reply

"I could never live with myself if I did that and people lives were put at risk."

HR has no problem finding others more compatible with the business culture.
These are top-tier jobs. Some of them are even union.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-13 02:04 PM | Reply

Note: see show Chernobyl to see how "socialism" works.

#4 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

How many "Chernobyls" have there been in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, Italy, etc.? You know those evil "socialist" countries we don't dare emulate for healthcare and education? Are you really as stupid as you sound?

Just because Stalin called it Socialism, doesn't really make it the definition of socialism. Or perhaps, all the other OECD countries aren't all that "socialist", after all.

#22 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2020-01-13 04:32 PM | Reply

okay...THAT does not make me feel good.

#20 | POSTED BY EBERLY

This is what happens when you use Capitalism as a political system rather than as a tool available to a democracy or, for the nitpickers, a "Representative Republic" (as if that were a different thing) to manage a national economy.

#23 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2020-01-13 04:38 PM | Reply

23

How would you prefer it be structured?

#24 | Posted by eberly at 2020-01-13 04:42 PM | Reply

#23 Whodoman,

None of those countries you listed are Socialist countries.

They all have capitalist economies with robust safety nets.

That's not Socialism.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 04:49 PM | Reply

Note: see show Chernobyl to see how "socialism" works.

#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Note: see how there's tons of middle ground that can and should be occupied.

Like it or not this is a great example of how f---ed the American "capitalist" system is and how non-existent the free market is.

"C-c-conservatives" always claim the free market would put a business out of commission if it failed as hard as Boeing did.

Yet, the CEO is walking away with ~60 million, the company is being fined pennies, and they're maintaining their status in the industry.

Stop being a tool bag who reflexively knee jerks to something only you're mentioning while ignoring the massive problem our society is being presented with.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 05:51 PM | Reply

Simply step back and let the corporate clown car hit the brick wall.

#15 | Posted by Pegasus

Nice. Let schit hit the fan uninhibited so you can collect your paycheck and go home.

Character is turning into the new truth. Never shall they and a "c-c-conservative" meet.

#27 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 05:55 PM | Reply

In South America, everyone uses metric...no bother to use the correct English tool... just use a metric tool and keep trying different sizes till the nut stops spinning. Close enough is close enough. Whats 35 ftpounds in metric? Don't know? Then tighten nut till it's snug and then loosen a 1/4 of a turn.

Well...it's beyond stupid that we've clung to that schitty, antiquated system.

Metric is far superior.

I worked for a major airline and I quit when they started doing this. I'm a private pilot and I love flying but I have never set foot on an airliner since then... nor will I ever... Had to sign a NDA so I can't even tell you about the really bad stuff.

Oh c'mon. You're "anonymous". LOL

Seriously, though, this is the type of thing that "c-c-conservatives" claim is free market.

Regulations to ensure basic safety in aircraft isn't sacrificed at the altar of The Almighty Dollar? Nah. Thatz socshulist!

Angry that the CEO who oversaw and tried to hide this debacle walked away with with $60 million? Well...you can GO BACK TO VENEZUELA YOU FILTHY COMMIE!!!!

Rigidity is absolutely toxic and people are dying because of it.

#28 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 06:02 PM | Reply

Boeing uses imperial units?

Seems like a strange choice for a global company.

But then air traffic control measures elevation in feet and speed in knots, so...

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-13 06:05 PM | Reply

They all have capitalist economies with robust safety nets.

That's not Socialism.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ

You can thank the ridiculous political commentary in the US for that one.

In any case, expecting some level of social responsibility from corporations shouldn't be that radical of an idea.

But your average modern "c-c-conservative" is so ---- stupid they'll drink whatever the corporations tell them to drink then whine later when they have X disease.

Foresight for a righty is remembering to wipe their a-- before pulling up their pants.

#30 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 06:07 PM | Reply

"They all have capitalist economies with robust safety nets."

Why do you hate safety nets to much that you call them "socialized medicine" or "government takeover?"

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-13 06:08 PM | Reply

In any case, expecting some level of social responsibility from corporations shouldn't be that radical of an idea.- JPW

Agreed and they will eventually end up paying out huge sums of money and rightly so.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 06:14 PM | Reply

Metric is superior for scientific purposes but I think out antiquated system works better because the terms are far more relatable and in some cases the numbers are far more relatable - Fahrenheit vs Celsius.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 06:18 PM | Reply

It'll probably be less than they're paying their deadbeat CEO.

If it's more, I'd be surprised it if it was more than 2X more. Either way it's peanuts to them and won't cause a change in their behavior.

Our system is broken. If you can't see that after a man walks away with a fortune for killing several hundred people then you're beyond help.

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 06:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Either way it's peanuts to them and won't cause a change in their behavior...

#34 | POSTED BY JPW

It's not so much the payouts, it's the bad publicity that will cause them to change their behavior.

Believe it or not, a vast majority of companies have very extensive quality control measures, especially with products that can be so potentially dangerous, like cars and airplanes.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 06:25 PM | Reply

As an example...the product specialist (Max Good) at Amazingribs.com was given a tour of a Weber plant and he said their quality control measures were meticulous.

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 06:27 PM | Reply

Metric is superior for scientific purposes but I think out antiquated system works better because the terms are far more relatable and in some cases the numbers are far more relatable - Fahrenheit vs Celsius.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ

Relatable is just a way of saying "it's what I'm used to".

Metric is superior in every way. It's in increments of 10, which is far more understandable than the f---ed up Imperial system, and has rational, even if arbitrary, standards. For instance, freezing point of water at 0 degrees and boiling at 100 degrees makes more sense than freezing at 32 degrees and boiling at 212.

Once you're in it you get used to it and it's far easier to think about in your head.

#37 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 06:54 PM | Reply

It's not so much the payouts, it's the bad publicity that will cause them to change their behavior.

Nonsense. The only thing that changes a corporation's behavior is investor opinion, which means money.

Righties always claim that the free market will save us based on people going to alternative options if a company doesn't provide an adequate service.

But it's a line of BS and this illustrates it perfectly. Boeing will hold its hat in hand and kick a pebble or two just long enough for the public to chase the next outrage. Then they'll go right back to business.

And besides, what's the public's options even while they're focused on Boeing? Ask to be seated on an Airbus or some other provider? Of course not. They have no recourse to punish Boeing. Boeing is completely insulated from any possible long-term effects from the 737 coverup.

Believe it or not, a vast majority of companies have very extensive quality control measures, especially with products that can be so potentially dangerous, like cars and airplanes.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ

I'm well aware.

I'm still perfectly fine with third parties playing a larger role as conflicts of interests are a massively important concept that seems to be dying a slow death in our increasingly corporate controlled world.

#38 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 07:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

and he said their quality control measures were meticulous.

#36 | Posted by JeffJ

If only more people trolled like you do, Jeff.

You must a Canadian troll with that kind of effort.

#39 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 07:02 PM | Reply

freezing point of water at 0 degrees and boiling at 100 degrees makes more sense than freezing at 32 degrees and boiling at 212.

Once you're in it you get used to it and it's far easier to think about in your head.

#37 | POSTED BY JPW

0 degrees sounds like it should be really cold. In Fahrenheit, it is. In Celsius, it's not. 100 degrees sounds like it's really hot but still livable. In Fahrenheit it is, in Celsius you'd be dead at temperatures 35 degrees lower (probably even more than that).

Think about someone, like me, living in Michigan....Pretty much all winter (except this week - we've had some really warm temps for January - tomorrow is supposed to reach the mid-40's) temperatures are in the negative. Most winters we only have a small handful of days that get below zero Fahrenheit. I get the argument that it's all what you are used to. Keep in mind, you are a scientist. Getting used to metric measurements is easier for you than it is to a dumbass like me.

#40 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 07:03 PM | Reply

You must a Canadian troll with that kind of effort.

#39 | POSTED BY JPW

I live in the Metro Detroit area. I can see Canada from my house!

As a kid, where my parents lived, you could actually see the lights of the Ambassador Bridge on a clear night, so I actually could see Canada from my house.

#41 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 07:05 PM | Reply

I'd rather have a studly man tell me that he's packing 12 inches than one that says he's packing 30.48 centimeters. It sounds masculine.

#42 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-01-13 07:37 PM | Reply

Think about someone, like me, living in Michigan....

I grew up in western NY. So I'm quite used to real winter.

It's really not hard to get used to it. You have to let go of what you're used to and learn what 0 degrees is or 27 degrees is by simply experiencing it.

Same goes for distance measurements, which is where metric really kicks the schit out of Imperial.

Keep in mind, you are a scientist. Getting used to metric measurements is easier for you than it is to a dumbass like me.

Nah. Scientists tend to be the dumb, idealistic ones.

As a kid, where my parents lived, you could actually see the lights of the Ambassador Bridge on a clear night, so I actually could see Canada from my house.

#41 | Posted by JeffJ

I remember being able to get CBC at my parent's house while growing up.

We were on top of the first line of hills above the coastal plain of Lake Erie. At most a mile from the actual lake.

On clear days you could go to the shore and see Canada quite easily. From Buffalo you could see it even in crap weather.

#43 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 07:45 PM | Reply

I remember being able to get CBC at my parent's house while growing up.

My fave radio station was WLS from Chicago but it only came in at night on the north shore of Superior..

John Records Landecker was da man!

#44 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-01-13 07:54 PM | Reply

Damn you'd pick it up that far away?

And I apologize for saying I knew real winter when clearly not compared to some LOL

I guess I equate snow fall depth with winter.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 08:04 PM | Reply

I guess I equate snow fall depth with winter.
#45 | POSTED BY JPW

I was born and raised in San Diego, CA. I've wintered in the Sierras in my time, but had no idea what winter really meant in the northern mid-west where my girlfriend's family lives.

Finally got to experience negative degree temperatures a couple of Christmases back. Bottomed out at -15, but girlfriend's dad had me shoveling the driveway at -10. I was actually relatively comfortable out there, breaking a sweat in a snowmobile getup. But didn't properly protect my cheeks; ended up with rosy cheeks for about a month. Was that early onset of frostbite? Granted, I was only out there for maybe 20 minutes (the snow was so powdery, was easy shoveling).

#46 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-01-13 08:11 PM | Reply

Damn you'd pick it up that far away?

Well it was AM. Our "local" AM station was CKPR in Thunder Bay about 70 miles away but when they cut to half power at sundown WLS would blast in clear as a bell.

#47 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-01-13 08:18 PM | Reply

We'd flirt with that temp range for short periods when I was in WNY.

I went to the Albany area for college and that's when I got my first taste of a "dry" winter, ie cold and lower snowfall.

I remember my senior year we had a cold snap over winter break (which I stayed in town for to work) where we had daily highs in the negative teens and nightly lows in the -30s to -40s for about a week.

First time I ever experienced the phenomena of a car battery that was too cold to function. Luckily I worked for a gas/service station so the tow driver on duty swung by my place free of charge to jump it.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-13 08:23 PM | Reply

Bottomed out at -15...

That's effing cold. Same as -26C which is what it is in my back yard right now.

#49 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-01-13 08:24 PM | Reply

I remember the first winter after I graduated from college. We had a week of sub-zero temperatures with wind-chill being -30. THAT was fricking cold. That was '94. '07, '14 and '15 were also pretty insane with extremely cold temps. '07 was a global thing - it was cold everywhere. I remember '14. Mackinac Island gets opened up the 3rd week of May. That year the ice was still 3 feet thick. They ended opening a week later and had to bring in ice-breaking ships to do it. We had so much snow that winter and it was so cold that the snow bank at the base of my driveway was a giant block of ice. Because of the amount of snow and lack of evaporation due to how long it stayed iced over Lake Charlevoix gained 11 inches that year. Absolutely insane.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-01-13 08:55 PM | Reply

"and in some cases the numbers are far more relatable - Fahrenheit vs Celsius."

This has to be one of the more provincial things I've ever read...
Of course it's more relatable to you, if it's the system they use in your province.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-13 10:40 PM | Reply

They've put so much effort into diversity and inclusiveness I can't understand how they still could have these engineering problems.

#52 | Posted by visitor_ at 2020-01-14 08:45 AM | Reply

Boeing is currently worth $185,680,000,000.00. You could fine them this amount ten thousand times and they'd still be worth $131 billion.

The median net worth of American families is $97,300. This would be like fining them $2.82.

#53 | Posted by JOE at 2020-01-14 09:02 AM | Reply

That's not how that math works.

#54 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-01-14 02:35 PM | Reply

It isn't?

I'm not good at math but i thought i did it right.

#55 | Posted by JOE at 2020-01-14 03:20 PM | Reply

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