Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, January 14, 2020

Senator Bernie Sanders on Monday proposed canceling all $1.6 trillion of outstanding student loan debt in the United States, one-upping a rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Elizabeth Warren, who has proposed canceling $640 billion of the debt. But there is a potential problem with the Sanders plan, and, to a lesser extent, the Warren plan. Their solutions for the past and plans for the future don't line up.

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FTA: " it's clear that the majority of all student loans are taken out to attend private colleges or graduate school.

This means that the day after Senator Sanders "hits the reset button," as he put it in the news conference, the national student debt odometer would begin rapidly spinning again.

Will those later debts be forgiven, too? If not, the plan would create a generation of student loan lottery winners, with losers on either side. People who had already paid back their loans would get nothing. People with future loans would get nothing. People with debt on the day the legislation was enacted would be rewarded."

As always the devil is in the details, but creating a bunch of lottery winners doesn't sound equitable and only treats the symptoms of the high cost of education.

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You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt.

#1 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-01-14 01:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah, sort of like the Boomers who went to state colleges for free or nearly free and then watched as tuition rates skyrocketed even as University endowments grew to ridiculous proportions. There will always be a counter argument any time you try to do anything to make life better for working people, it does cost money, but it also frees up money to be spent elsewhere in our economy thereby only hurting one sector...the bankers. That is all that is at risk, is free profits enjoyed by banks by servicing student loan debt guaranteed by the federal government. They make 8% with no risk. So yeah, expect so push-back on student loan forgiveness, bankers don't give up cash cows easily.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-14 01:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt."

But then some of us have kids and grandkids. I don't consider myself a sucker for wanting the world to be a better place for them, perhaps you do. Explains much about you.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-14 01:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Who is going to pay for it? I worked my way through college, no spring breaks etc. This doesn't fix the problem of the price increasing faster inflation. Lots of reasons, this will make it worse.

#4 | Posted by visitor_ at 2020-01-14 01:46 PM | Reply

You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt.
#1 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

The, "I already got mine" crowd strikes again.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-01-14 02:09 PM | Reply

"You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt."

Or you could look at the actual math and realize that the boomers graduated college with six months of debt and the current kids are graduating college with 2 to 3 years of debt.

#6 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-01-14 02:11 PM | Reply

The, "I already got mine" crowd strikes again.
#5 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

No, CLownshack. "I PAID for mine" with money I EARNED working a job, paying my bills, fulfilling my obligations and commitments.

I signed a contract that I'm responsible for. There was an agreement. The bank payed my college up front, and I had to pay them back with interest.

I AGREED to the terms, and I WORKED, scraped, and saved to pay it back. You wouldn't know responsibility if it was drawn in crayon for you.

#7 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2020-01-14 02:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt."

Yeah, it wouldn't be fare to those who were screwed in the past to prevent people from being screwed in the future.

#8 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-01-14 02:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#7 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM"

When did you graduate?

#9 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-01-14 02:26 PM | Reply

#7 | POSTED BY SHERP

Looks like the "I got mine" crowd is angry.

This is why we can't have free healthcare and education in America.

Because angry people like Sherp feel, since they had to pay, so should everyone else.

It's petty nonsense.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-01-14 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Come up with a way to control costs and then we'll have something to talk about.

#11 | Posted by visitor_ at 2020-01-14 03:12 PM | Reply

Allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy under much more lenient terms than now. This takes care of hardship cases and will make lenders think twice about loaning a lot of money for degree unlikely to pay off.

No limit forgiveness of unsecured loans is fraught with moral peril.

#12 | Posted by bored at 2020-01-14 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's the real issue... why has college gotten so expensive, compared to what it cost a relatively short time ago.

Guaranteed loans. If a colleges see that their students are able to get their tuitions covered with loans that are Federally guaranteed, why wouldn't they raise their price a bit, same next semester and the next and so on and so on...

Get the colleges to have some skin in the loan game, and we might see some self corrective action.

#13 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2020-01-14 05:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

How much can the schools charge the govt for free education?

I hear free education, but that is for the student. The school has to pay so how much can they charge?

#14 | Posted by Petrous at 2020-01-14 05:37 PM | Reply

why has college gotten so expensive, compared to what it cost a relatively short time ago.

As with everything else.

Inflation.

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-01-14 05:42 PM | Reply

-Looks like the "I got nothin" crowd is angry.

ft

which is why Warren is proposing something like this.

#16 | Posted by eberly at 2020-01-14 05:42 PM | Reply

I agree higher education needs to be taken to the woodshed over the bubble they are creating.....thus the call for a bailout.

Further, I'm fine with doing something about these sham for-profit universities that offer little except debt.

but I'm not in favor of this solution.........it's got too many landmines.

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2020-01-14 05:44 PM | Reply

try again clown

www.usatoday.com

#18 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2020-01-14 07:31 PM | Reply

From The Atlantic:

"Ultimately, college is expensive in the U.S. for the same reason MRIs are expensive: There is no central mechanism to control price increases. "Universities extract money from students because they can," says Schleicher at the OECD. "It's the inevitable outcome of an unregulated fee structure." In places like the United Kingdom, the government limits how much universities can extract by capping tuition. The same is true when it comes to health care in most developed countries, where a centralized government authority contains the prices.

The U.S. federal government has historically been unwilling to perform this role. So Americans pay more for pharmaceuticals"and for college classes. Meanwhile, more and more of the risk gets shifted from government onto families, in both sectors."

www.theatlantic.com

#19 | Posted by hoser at 2020-01-14 08:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Seems like welfare for the upper middle class to me.

#20 | Posted by docnjo at 2020-01-14 10:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I paid off all my debt too. I don't have any open loans anymore. Why?, because I agreed to. Now, with that said, the big banks can get greedy and wreck themselves financially and my tax dollars go to bailing their sorry asses out. Go figure. Not to mention that this president as well as the previous two are spending money we don't have so fast, inflation is beginning to eat us alive.

And the Fed is a rip-off.

#21 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2020-01-14 11:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I paid off all my debt too. I don't have any open loans anymore. Why?, because I agreed to. Now, with that said, the big banks can get greedy and wreck themselves financially and my tax dollars go to bailing their sorry asses out."

As much as it pains me to say it, and as much as I disagree with the concept, TARP was quite successful.

If traditional welfare or relief programs could be expected to be as successful, I don't think anyone other than Libertarians like myself would take issue. And then only on moral grounds that it's outside what government should be doing.

#22 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-15 08:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt.

#1 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-01-14 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Therein lies the entire GOP grumpy old men rationale.... "THERE IS NOTHING IN IT FOR ME!"

This is why ACA is hated and universal coverage is never passed.

#23 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-01-15 11:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Universities extract money from students because they can,"

When you have the government guaranteeing repaying the banks for the student loans and not allowing these debts to be discharged, the banks have no reason to not loan students the money which in turn puts no price pressure on the Universities.

#24 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-01-15 11:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If Sanders drops the school debt and makes college free... then where does this "future debt" come from?

#25 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2020-01-15 12:01 PM | Reply

#24 | POSTED BY NIXON

So you are saying banks should make students qualify for student loans?

For instance if you want a degree in STEM we will loan you say 100%
Degree in art history 5%

So, for example, your degree, and GPA would determine your qualifications?

#26 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-15 12:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If Sanders drops the school debt and makes college free... then where does this "future debt" come from?
#25 | POSTED BY 503JC69

What does "free college" mean?

Does it mean the government will pay your tuition, books, living expenses for any qualified college at any price?

I go back to Nixon's statement "which in turn puts no price pressure on the Universities"

#27 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-15 12:09 PM | Reply

#22 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

MY only complaint/change regarding TARP, is that if you receive government money to pay your debts, the Government dissolves the corporation, NO bonuses etc etc .... this organization doesn't exist. People associated with the firm cannot work in the industry again for 5-10years.

Also we should be very clear between a commercial/private/retail bank and investment firm (Gramm-Leach-Act ruined). This got muddied, and causes people to panic. There is no Reason EVER BankOfAmerica/WellFargo should be at risk because of the stock market collapse.

#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-15 12:17 PM | Reply

"What does "free college" mean?"

It doesn't mean the government will pay for you to attend any private university.

"Today, we say to our young people that we want you to get the best education that you can, regardless of the income of your family. Good jobs require a good education. That is why we are going to make public colleges and universities tuition free, and cancel all student debt."

Bernie Sanders

berniesanders.com

#29 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-15 12:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#29 that's an absurd idea.

#30 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-15 12:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It would be more helpful to more people if you gave everyone a free car. Or paid off the car they have. Would help a lot more people.

#31 | Posted by sawdust at 2020-01-15 07:54 PM | Reply

scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net

#32 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-01-15 09:31 PM | Reply

>one-upping a rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Elizabeth Warren
he really must have said that the double-X chromosomes are incapable of winning the prezinenzy.

who is advising warren, anyway? "showcase your 1/1024 proxy native DNA!" "say Boynie (NO REFUNDS!) said wymynnyzyz can't become preznint"

#33 | Posted by berserkone at 2020-01-15 11:36 PM | Reply

"This is why ACA is hated and universal coverage is never passed."

Universal care is never passed because most of us have healthcare plans that we find acceptable...so there's no reason to change and risk a degradation in quality or service.

No reason to fix what's not broken.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-16 03:03 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Good jobs require a good education."

A good education will pay for itself.

The people who will struggle are those who pay $300k for an education that will land them a job making little more than min wage.

The Economist ran an article back in 2009 comparing average pay for different degrees. There were several liberal arts degrees where you would statistically make less money with the degree than you would had you not gone to college at all.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-16 03:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"It would be more helpful to more people if you gave everyone a free car. Or paid off the car they have. Would help a lot more people."

It would be a lot more fair...far more people have cars than go to college.

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-16 03:34 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Very important point from the article than no one talks about:

Will those later debts be forgiven, too? If not, the plan would create a generation of student loan lottery winners, with losers on either side. People who had already paid back their loans would get nothing. People with future loans would get nothing. People with debt on the day the legislation was enacted would be rewarded.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 07:51 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Very important point from the article than no one talks about:"

Both Bernie and EW have addressed this issue, they would make all state universities and colleges tuition free. It's been discussed here many times.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-16 08:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It would be a lot more fair...far more people have cars than go to college."

What does more for our economy, someone owning a car or getting an education which will benefit them and society for their entire life? The most prosperous decades in American history were when returning GIs, from WWII, were given GI Bill benefits to further their educations. We basically created the American dream during that generation. I just want some of you to consider that if we don't make college free but our economic competitors do, who is going to win economically in the future?

#39 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-16 08:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You have to be a sucker to vote for Warren/Sanders if you've already paid off your debt.

#1 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-01-14 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag

When the left forces homeless people to pay my mortgage, then I'll think about supporting this travesty against the people who work for a living. People who get up everyday and work at real jobs,

many times going from pay check to pay check. The same people that the democrat party lies to on a regular basis.

have a nice day !

#40 | Posted by rhet at 2020-01-16 11:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Got a B.A. from one of my state's universities. Humanities. I never expected to use the degree for my career, so I could never justify debt for tuition, supplies, or cost of living. Folks paid for my first semester. Commercial fishing and good bacon construction as a young man allowed me cash to travel and to go to school full time one semester a year. Literature major, history minor. Took me 6 years.

I guess my point is: if you are pragmatic and willing/able to do less than comfortable work for money, student debt is avoidable.

I highly value my time spent both buying and earning my humanities degree, and I think my education, all A.A, B.A and similar level vocational training level public education should be available as a benefit of (and for) being a US citizen and long term permanant resident.

American science/engineering/tech industries in many major areas all have more jobs than people available in America. Another way to reduce or avoid debt for higher education.

#41 | Posted by Ottodog at 2020-01-16 04:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#41 Good on you, Ottodog. You are absolutely correct. It can be done.

Then of course, there are always trade schools which cost only a fraction of University and can be completed in one or two years. If you choose the right trade you will be making far more out of school then many college graduates and unlike the college graduates you would not be saddled with debt.

That was my life route. The year-long electronics School the Navy sent me to was basically a trade school. I retired making a lot more money than many University graduates. I still used my GI Bill and went to school for the equivalent to 4 years over a period of 10 years, but I never graduated. A sheepskin would have done nothing to promote my career anyway so I never bothered to go to the last few hours of school on my own dime

My point is the same as yours -- continuing education is obtainable without going into debt

#42 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 04:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"continuing education is obtainable without going into debt"

Um, your cost was four years.
Now, maybe you had nothing else going on, so it was a great deal, but it still cost you four years.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 04:29 PM | Reply

Also, if the ads I see while watching M*A*S*H* reruns are any indicator, the mesothelioma you got while working in the Navy shipyards was also part of your cost.

Get well soon!

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 04:35 PM | Reply

When the left forces homeless people to pay my mortgage, then I'll think about supporting this travesty against the people who work for a living.

Giving people more money to buy the french fries you're making isn't a travesty against you, champ. It's job security.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-16 04:47 PM | Reply

"Giving people more money to buy the french fries you're making isn't a travesty against you, champ. It's job security.

#45 | POSTED BY JPW "

One would think a giant brain like JPW could come up with something more meaningful than a version of the trite and decades old, "you work as a fry cook".

I guess he can't.

#46 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 04:50 PM | Reply

BTW I don't agree with cancelling the debt.

That was just a "welcome to the Retort" kick in the nuts.

#47 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-16 04:52 PM | Reply

The only objection I have to canceling the debt is it's welfare for those who are already successful enough in life they at least made it to college.

Now, as a stimulus, that's certainly going to be a more profitable bunch to stimulate, and it will boost the overall economy.
But it won't do much to change the trajectory of "Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."
What it will do is help more college graduates into that top 20%. At best, increase the number of "haves" to 21 or 22 percent.

I'm not opposed, or particularly in favor, I'm just not wild about it either way. More detailed numbers could change my mind.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 04:56 PM | Reply

I'm not opposed, or particularly in favor, I'm just not wild about it either way. More detailed numbers could change my mind.

#48 | Posted by snoofy

I'd say I'm more opposed than for but could be swayed by numbers that lay out a good case.

My issue with it really does boil down to positively reinforcing poor decision making along with the absurd costs universities are heaping on students while increasing the quality of everything but education. (exception: for profit schools. F--- those guys)

I think first and foremost things things like interest rates and payment plan access needs to change. Maybe make discharge via bankruptcy easier to obtain by expanding, to some extent, the criteria to have it granted.

It would also be nice to have a SoE who's not a complete pile of schit and who actually allows Federal forgiveness programs for things like public service to proceed as they're intended to proceed.

Then college education costs need to be dealt with (different topic, different thread so don't ask).

But people who spent recklessly shouldn't just get a clean slate for nothing. If their degree was obtained from a school acting in good faith then the consequences of their decisions are theirs and theirs alone.

#49 | Posted by jpw at 2020-01-16 05:08 PM | Reply

I agree you folk's hesitance to cancel existing student debt. We should change policy for those who have not yet incurred student debt but only at the public level. Like the rest of the West.

Goatdog: I would be making more money if I went to a trade school, especially in my state. But I also would have been bored in my career...don't like to do the same thing in the same place all year, and enjoy being able to pick between commercial fishing seasons and construction seasons in an environment that does not hold it against me, with options on both sides.

I am unsure to what extent this is a result of Alaska's unique economic situation, being more advantageous than many other states. More work than people.

#50 | Posted by Ottodog at 2020-01-16 05:43 PM | Reply

JPW if you consider the top 20% doesn't want to dilute their financial power by spreading the wealth around to more than the 20%, then the barrier to entry -- tuition that's gone through the roof -- makes sense.

The cost is a symptom, not a cause. And it is a feature, not a bug.

Things like Felicity Huffman and other already successful people paying bribes to get their kids into top-tier schools is another symptom, and also a very useful feature for them, until they got caught.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 05:44 PM | Reply

"But I also would have been bored in my career.

Ottodog"

I fully understand that. I've a bad case of wanderlust. So I guess what the trade is. An ET has many options. I worked telecom for many years, and offshore oil rigs for several years with a couple of short stints working on medical electronics and working on the machines that make IC chips.

(IC makers: talk about bizarre and complex machines. Relativity had to actually figured into their operation so a desired radioactive decay of an element could be accurately figured as this machine hurled atoms at a silicon disk at significant fractions of c. But I digress)

Of course that was preceded by six years in the Navy where I visited 55 ports in 33 different countries scattered across the globe. Electronics are in everything and are everywhere these days.

But yeah, plumbing, welding, automotive repair and such could get you pigeonholed and bored depending on the individual's personality.

#52 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 05:59 PM | Reply

(exception: for profit schools. F--- those guys) ~ JPW

A this point, they are all "for profit" its only how you spend it that different.

#53 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-01-16 06:39 PM | Reply

Goat

Sounds pretty awesome, a lot of unique experiences. With a different temperament, a trade in the military could have been my choice. The military wasn't/isn't a choice for me because I could never put my life situation in the hands of anyone but me. I never even joined a trade union. Ain't getting rich but getting more than by tho.

Still, am curious if anyone has any input as to the viability of this strategy outside of alaska. (Good) Jobs to people ratio.

#54 | Posted by Ottodog at 2020-01-16 07:15 PM | Reply

Carpenter, form to finish commercial and residential, by the way. And longlining, pot fishing, seining.

#55 | Posted by Ottodog at 2020-01-16 07:17 PM | Reply

I envy the skills of a good carpenter. The carpentry acme of my life is a cutting board I made in 9th grade shop class 49 years ago that I still use. I acquired it after my mother died. It's still the only cutting board I use. But that was it! LOL

My extent of fishing is dipping a pole in the lake to catch a few crappie for dinner. I don't know how to trophy fish. I've just recently tried surf fishing, but only because a buddy bought me the gear and my license is free being a disabled vet. Still haven't caught anything.

I would not join the military today (assuming I could). When I was in the Navy, it was very lax. We could still have beards. Officers turned a blind eye to 'goodies' we picked up in places they were available. (at $100 per half kilo of Pakistani blonde, the 7th and 5th fleets always had a pinch between the cheek and gums all day long) And I was on a ship whose CO was even more lenient. Swim calls in the middle of the Atlantic, weekly cookouts and skeet shoots and boxing matches on "steel beach" (the helicopter deck) etc. The Navy was fun then.

#56 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 07:32 PM | Reply

"Still, am curious if anyone has any input as to the viability of this strategy outside of alaska. (Good) Jobs to people ratio."

Of course I'm prejudice, but Texas has a good and stable job market. What makes it good is that it doesn't have the highs (bubbles) and lows (bursts) a lot of other markets have, so the job market is stable. Same with the housing markets. The real estate market is stable with slow, but steady appreciation of property values. We escaped the big bubble burst during the Great Recession. Cost of living low. No state income tax. (y'all don't have that in Alaska either, do you?)

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but if you have any questions, email me. The address on my user page will get to me.

#57 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 07:35 PM | Reply

Otto it depends on your trade and skill level. I do fireplaces in the winter and stone in the summer. Make a boat load in the winter, make enough to cover basic costs in the summer and have savings from winter to cover emergencies. I am working on getting my stone skill up to my fireplace skill so I could make boatloads year round but stone is pretty physically demanding, and I have MS. I don't know that I could handle the pace I keep during fireplace season doing stone. Also having slow months is good for me to reintroduce myself to the wife and kids.

I dropped out of college to become a dad and a couple times went back for a semester or two but never stuck with one thing long enough to get a degree. Result: If you ever find yourself in need of a jack leg database programmer/manager, web developer, or code debugger let me know. I liked the money from an IT field but I couldn't chain myself to a desk for the requisite number of hours a week. I like hitting multiple jobs with different challenges and different people (or no people) every day. Also at this point entry level computers would be a pay cut.

So to answer your question you can get away with it in NC also. It helps that like Alaska we have more jobs than workers at least in the trades. I'm booked out 2 weeks right now and that's after the past week in the 70's. I'm almost afraid of what next week will bring in terms of calls when we have highs in the 40's.

#58 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-01-16 08:27 PM | Reply

One thing a lot of us are ignoring in the college debt equation is the rate it has outpaced inflation.

I know plenty of folks who worked their way through college and were able to graduate debt free. Now that is a lot more difficult and probably impossible in 4 years. On NextDoor we had a kid trying to earn money for a Nintendo Switch, after 2 weeks of offering to do any odd job and getting 2 responses, he then asked if anyone had an old one to give away (yeah right). A bunch of boomers jumped on him one even saying she paid for college by babysitting and walking dogs. You will not pay for college (even community college) walking dogs and babysitting these days.

#59 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-01-16 08:37 PM | Reply

Finish masonry is no cakewalk, especially with MS I imagine. What i don't understand is why folks in warm climate even built houses that need heat when it's above 60f outside. I can't turn my diesel stove on until the daily high is lower than 15f. I use a ------ electric baseboard for the month or so in between summer and winter. No heat for 5 months at all cus it's more than 60f low outside. R-value theoretically of 65 in exterior walls and attic.

You install those badass masonry heaters? So efficient and also gorgeous.

#60 | Posted by Ottodog at 2020-01-16 09:19 PM | Reply

Back to thread: pretty much in complete agreement with you JPW and, to a lesser extent, you too snoofdog.

#61 | Posted by Ottodog at 2020-01-16 09:26 PM | Reply

"Both Bernie and EW have addressed this issue, they would make all state universities and colleges tuition free. It's been discussed here many times."

I guess I missed those discussions? Is all college free? For everyone? Regardless of major? Can anyone do it? Say I want to stay in school continuously...the taxpayers will continue to cover tuition through any number of majors.

I only ask because my understanding, based on where I live in Germany, is that free college is associated with strict entry criteria. It's free...if you're selected by the government to attend. And about 28% of the population is selected. For the rest, the government will tell you where to go and what to do. But it won't be college. There is nothing equivalent to community college or night school. If you miss your chance to get into University by completing your abitur, you're not going to college. At least not in Germany.

And this makes sense. The government recognizes that there is little value in spending taxpayer dollars on educations that are going to provide little return for society writ large.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-17 03:22 AM | Reply

"The most prosperous decades in American history were when returning GIs, from WWII, were given GI Bill benefits to further their educations."

How on earth do you qualify the post-war years as the most prosperous? By any standard?

"I just want some of you to consider that if we don't make college free but our economic competitors do, who is going to win economically in the future?"

Was college free in the post-war years? I didn't know that.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-17 03:24 AM | Reply

"Was college free in the post-war years? I didn't know that."

For millions of returning vets yes it was and their benefits included living expenses too. That is credited with the fastest growth decades this nation or any other nation has ever experienced.

#64 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-17 06:49 AM | Reply

"How on earth do you qualify the post-war years as the most prosperous? By any standard?"

By comparing the growth during those years to any other group of years in history.

"This doesn't fix the problem of the price increasing faster inflation. Lots of reasons, this will make it worse."

That's one of the arguments used against Medicare which was exactly the opposite of what happened. Making state college free is not only doable but cost controls would be a part of it just like it is in Medicare.

#65 | Posted by danni at 2020-01-17 07:02 AM | Reply

"For millions of returning vets yes it was and their benefits included living expenses too."

That wasn't free college. It was far from free. It was a benefit provided in return for having hung their pink asses out in Europe and the Pacific during the war years.

And for what it's worth, vets still get an expanded version of those benefits even today. They didn't go anywhere.

#66 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-01-17 07:15 AM | Reply

At least half the economic world had just been bombed into oblivion, leaving American factories with little competition... but it was the GI Bill that is fully responsible.

Danni you might be in a causation vs correlation event.

#67 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2020-01-17 08:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Making state college free is not only doable but cost controls would be a part of it just like it is in Medicare.

#65 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2020-01-17 07:02 AM | FLAG:

NYS did that for the middle class. Private colleges have cut tuition in response.

#68 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-01-17 11:56 AM | Reply

Or you could look at the actual math and realize that the boomers graduated college with six months of debt and the current kids are graduating college with 2 to 3 years of debt.

#6 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2020-01-14 02:11 PM | FLAG: No one forced then to sign a legal fiscal contract. They voluntarily took on the debt and should honor their legal responsibilities; you know, like an adult. But should the govt spend out tax dollars and do it, then I feel each and every one should have their FICO score lowered to 300 and let them earn a better score through fiscal responsibility [again, like an adult].

#69 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-01-17 12:23 PM | Reply

"No one forced then to sign a legal fiscal contract."

Don't pretend you knew at 18 what you know now about "a legal fiscal contract". The prefrontal cortex--the rational part of the brain--isn't fully formed until ~25.

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-01-17 12:29 PM | Reply

"But should the govt spend out tax dollars and do it, then I feel each and every one should have their FICO score lowered to 300 and let them earn a better score through fiscal responsibility"

Fair enough. Lowering it 300pts would be fairer.

#71 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-01-17 12:30 PM | Reply

In my very liberal opinion, only -------- are upset at the notion of students and recent graduates not being forced to pay back extravagant debts. Only -------- make the argument that some other so and so had to pay their back so every one else should as well. Similarly, only -------- make the argument that nobody forced the students to take the loans in the first place. For god's sake, the our system and our society is set up, most young people do not have a choice. That is the reality. That is why so MANY of them have borrowed so much.

#72 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-01-17 12:33 PM | Reply

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