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Thursday, January 16, 2020

China's Huawei [HWT.UL] said it was confident Britain would assess the evidence in deciding whether its equipment should be deployed in 5G networks after the United States said it would be "madness" to allow use of the technology.

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Wikipedia: In August 2018, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019 (NDAA 2019) was signed into law, containing a provision that banned Huawei and ZTE equipment from being used by the U.S. federal government, citing security concerns. Huawei filed a lawsuit over the act in March 2019, alleging it to be unconstitutional because it specifically targeted Huawei without granting it a chance to provide a rebuttal or due process. On 15 May 2019, the Department of Commerce added Huawei and 70 foreign subsidiaries and "affiliates" to its entity list under the Export Administration Regulations, citing the company having been indicted for "knowingly and willfully causing the export, re-export, sale and supply, directly and indirectly, of goods, technology and services (banking and other financial services) from the United States to Iran and the government of Iran without obtaining a license from the Department of Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)". This restricts U.S. companies from doing business with Huawei without a government license. Various U.S.-based companies immediately froze their business with Huawei to comply with the regulation, including Google--which removes its ability to certify future devices and updates for the Android operating system with licensed Google Mobile Services (GMS) such as Google Play Store, as well as Broadcom, Intel, Qualcomm, Microsoft, Xilinx and Western Digital. The German chipmaker Infineon Technologies also voluntarily suspended its business with Huawei, pending "assessments".[83][85][86] It was reported that Huawei did have a limited "stockpile" of U.S.-sourced parts, obtained prior to the sanctions. On 17 May 2019, Huawei voluntarily suspended its membership to JEDEC, as a temporary measure, "until the restrictions imposed by the U.S. government are removed". Speaking to Chinese media, Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei accused U.S. politicians of underestimating the company's strength, and explained that "in terms of 5G technologies, others won't be able to catch up with Huawei in two or three years. We have sacrificed ourselves and our families for our ideal, to stand on top of the world. To reach this ideal, sooner or later there will be conflict with the US."

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Using Networking gear from a Chinese State "controlled" communications company when China's Military is known for aggressively hacking companies for Industrial espionage. What could go wrong?

#1 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-01-15 11:07 AM | Reply

They said that non-ionizing radiation isn't dangerous. But the B-24 crews in 2 all got floaters in the eyes. Those giant engines spinning magnetrons for RADAR.

It vibrates your molecules apart. We have known that since the first studies on 1G. You know what 5G does? It's on the same frequency of oxygen molecules (O2) caught in red blood cells.

But hell, we don't need no stinking oxygen since we are all going to become cyborgs anyway in the singularity, just like in that Disney film.

#2 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-01-16 01:47 AM | Reply

At first I thought the 5G thing was just another scare. But the more I'm reading about it, the more I'm believing there is something to the stories

And yes, I think the UK will base their 5G deployment on evidence.

#3 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 04:52 PM | Reply

"They said that non-ionizing radiation isn't dangerous. But the B-24 crews in 2 all got floaters in the eyes. "

That sort of thing is not something one worries about with ionizing radiation. I have floaters and I am not around plane engines.

When non-ionizing radiation can be proven to cause cancers and the like, it's time to start looking. But given their nature and wavelength and size of a cell, that is impossible, unless you are orbiting a quasar. LOL

#4 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 04:54 PM | Reply

"When non-ionizing radiation can be proven to cause cancers and the like, it's time to start looking."

I disagree because it's basically impossible to create a control group for that study, one that's subtle enough to find what you're looking for.
I mean, you could raise generations upon generations of mice in a giant Faraday cage...

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 04:58 PM | Reply

"They said that non-ionizing radiation isn't dangerous."

It's pretty dangerous to the ham sandwich in the microwave.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 04:58 PM | Reply

"I disagree because it's basically impossible to create a control group for that study, one that's subtle enough to find what you're looking for.
I mean, you could raise generations upon generations of mice in a giant Faraday cage...

#5 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Sure. Animal cells are the same as humans and they are used for testing.

But that aside, testing isn't necessary. It's basic physics. Microwaves and radio wavelengths are measured in meters. Cells are nanometers and smaller. That's why EMF in the sub-nanometer (generally far UV 10^-8 meters and shorter) can damage cells.

#7 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 05:08 PM | Reply

"It's pretty dangerous to the ham sandwich in the microwave.

#6 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

It doesn't harm mine. In fact, it enhances it

#8 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 05:09 PM | Reply

"It doesn't harm mine. In fact, it enhances it."

You didn't leave it in long enough.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 05:24 PM | Reply

You didn't leave it in long enough.

#9 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-01-16 05:24 PM | FLAG:

That's what my wife said.

#10 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2020-01-16 05:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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"That's why EMF in the sub-nanometer (generally far UV 10^-8 meters and shorter) can damage cells."

There's multiple ways radiation can damage a cell.
It can spin the water molecules real fast and cause heating through friction, like what happens inside your microwave.
It can knock nucleotides in the DNA out of position, which is why sunlight is a potent carcinogen. 5G can certainly do the first, like a 5G tower I mean, if not the second.

"Not all types of electromagnetic radiation are carcinogenic. Low-energy waves on the electromagnetic spectrum including radio waves, microwaves, infrared radiation and visible light are thought not to be, because they have insufficient energy to break chemical bonds. Evidence for carcinogenic effects of non-ionizing radiation is generally inconclusive, though there are some documented cases of radar technicians with prolonged high exposure experiencing significantly higher cancer incidence." en.wikipedia.org

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 05:33 PM | Reply

I apologize for posting after #10 which clearly wins the thread.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 05:35 PM | Reply

"There's multiple ways radiation can damage a cell.
It can spin the water molecules real fast and cause heating through friction, like what happens inside your microwave."

That's not ionizing radiation. That is thermal. It is no different than sticking your hand into a pot of boiling water. But the radiation is so small, this doesn't come anywhere close to happening. Obviously.

"It can knock nucleotides in the DNA out of position, which is why sunlight is a potent carcinogen. 5G can certainly do the first, like a 5G tower I mean, if not the second."

No, microwaves cannot do that. It takes radiation with wavelengths many orders of magnitudes shorter to do that. As I said earlier, far UV (~10^-8 m) RF is 10 cm to 8m range. So we are talking radiation that is 1,000,000,000 to 1,000,000,000,000,000 times too long to do cellular damage as far as cellular mutation.

Light, which is between 10^-7 and 10^-6 m in wavelength is much more 'dangerous' than microwaves. They are several orders of magnitude closer to ionizing radiation than to RF. In fact, far UV, just outside our range of vision is considered ionizing, which is why God gave us sunscreen and SPF.

#13 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 05:44 PM | Reply

"You didn't leave it in long enough.

#9 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Maybe you put a ham sandwich in the microwave for different purposes than I do. I put mine in to warm it up and enhance its flavor. And yes, for that purpose it is in long enough.

#14 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 05:46 PM | Reply

The graphic of the wavelengths aren't to scale, obviously. That would be impossible to to. Look at the numbers which are necessarily on a logarithmic scale.

ugc.futurelearn.com

#15 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 05:50 PM | Reply

National security concerns v. saving money by using reliable Chinese technology? Hmmm. I wonder which one the government will choose.

#16 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-01-16 05:53 PM | Reply

"I put mine in to warm it up and enhance its flavor."

Uh huh.
And what happens if you put it in for triple the normal time?
What amount of non-ionizing radiation is required to enhance your flavor, and how can you be sure you're not getting too much?

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 05:56 PM | Reply

"There's multiple ways radiation can damage a cell.
It can spin the water molecules real fast and cause heating through friction, like what happens inside your microwave."
That's not ionizing radiation."

It is not ionizing radiation.
It is merely... harmful radiation.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 05:57 PM | Reply

"It is not ionizing radiation.
It is merely... harmful radiation.

#18 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Yeah, I guess if you are standing in front of a radar. But not many of us do that.

You, at this very moment are being bombarded by RF emitted by dozens if not hundreds of radio TV, satellite, your cell phone, and even your microwave oven when you operate it. The Faraday screen on the door and the door itself "leak" a little bit. But you don't feel hot and sweaty from all this radiation, do you? Of course not. So fear not. about RF cooking you. If it did, it would have happened to all of us by now.

#19 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 06:07 PM | Reply

"And what happens if you put it in for triple the normal time?
What amount of non-ionizing radiation is required to enhance your flavor, and how can you be sure you're not getting too much?

POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Depends on the food. Ham sandwich:

First of all, I'd never nuke the entire sandwich. It would ruin the bread. Microwaves are all different, but with mine, I would heat the ham for about 26 seconds, less if using shaved ham.

Then I'd slap on the rye bread and eat it with some mustard, swiss cheese, and onion.

How can I be sure it's not getting too much, you ask? I"m a good cook who knows his kitchen equipment and how to use it as well as the cooking properties of most all foods.

#20 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 06:11 PM | Reply

"How can I be sure it's not getting too much, you ask? I"m a good cook who knows his kitchen equipment and how to use it as well as the cooking properties of most all foods."

Does your expertise extend to 5G towers?

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 08:55 PM | Reply

"Does your expertise extend to 5G towers?

#21 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Those aren't used for cooking, snoofy.

If you wish to play games rather than engage in adult conversation, just come out and say so rather than engage in your usual game playing.

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 08:59 PM | Reply

"Those aren't used for cooking"

But they do emit a lot of non-ionizing radiation, just like a microwave or a radar.

You know, the radar you're not supposed to stand in front of...

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 09:01 PM | Reply

"But they do emit a lot of non-ionizing radiation, just like a microwave or a radar.
You know, the radar you're not supposed to stand in front of...

#23 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

I've heard no stories of people being cooked by 5G towers. I'm pretty sure the folks who developed it would have reported their colleagues were succumbing to overheating. It would be hard to keep something like that a secret.

Also, those microwaves are subject to the inverse square law like all EMF.

Are you through with the games and feigning ignorance? If not, please afford me the curtest of saying so.

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 09:06 PM | Reply

I've heard no stories of people being cooked by 5G towers.

#24 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2020-01-16 09:06 PM | FLAG:

5G is universal for communication or as a defense mechanism. I can't prove it, but I believe that the governments will implement whatever they have to to control anything that threatens them in a civil unrest situation. shut down communications, disable vehicles, - whatever it takes. and once everything is controlled by an internet signs, we're screwed. That time is coming.

#25 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2020-01-16 09:16 PM | Reply

signs = signal

#26 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2020-01-16 09:17 PM | Reply

"I've heard no stories of people being cooked by 5G towers."

1. You don't hear everything.
2. 5G towers are new.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 09:20 PM | Reply

"I'm pretty sure the folks who developed it would have reported their colleagues were succumbing to overheating."

Why?

Were you pretty sure the people who developed Vioxx would have reported if their patients were dying?

You sound impossibly naive.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-01-16 09:21 PM | Reply

""I'm pretty sure the folks who developed it would have reported their colleagues were succumbing to overheating."

Why?"

I dunno. People tend to speak out about colleagues who start overheating and then dying. At least in my world. Maybe in snoofyland this is the norm.

Bye, snoofy. I told you wasn't going to pay games if you kept it up.

#29 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 09:24 PM | Reply

"2. 5G towers are new.

#27 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Compared to 4G. THey've been around for two years. It's incredible how its developers have kept the microwaved people a secret for that long

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2020-01-16 09:27 PM | Reply

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