Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, February 10, 2020

David Leonhardt: If your preferred candidate doesn't win the nomination, will you still do everything you can to deny Trump a second term?

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The only way the Democrats lose the WH this year is if we self destruct. Will pettiness and relatively minor policy issues cause self immolation? And keep in mind, this year there really is no major candidate running for Democratic nomination who is even nearly as divisive as HRC was. If we lose, it's on us.

#1 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-10 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

will you still do everything in your power to deny Trump a second term?

Posted by moder8 at 12:23 PM

I will.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-10 12:31 PM | Reply

I will.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2020-02-10 12:35 PM | Reply

"If elected, every single Democratic presidential candidate would act to slow climate change, raise taxes on the rich, reduce gun deaths, expand voting rights, lower health care and education costs, protect abortion access, enforce civil-rights laws, appoint progressive judges, rebuild overseas alliances and ..."

well, they are promising to do all of that....but that's all it is at this point. Yes, will they work harder for that than Trump? of course...so it's a moot point, I suppose, how hard any of they will really work to accomplish any meaningful change.

#4 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-10 12:42 PM | Reply

"If the primaries don't turn out as you hope, will you still do everything in your power to deny Trump a second term?"

Great question. Last time the answer was NO.

"Or will you instead exaggerate your differences with the nominee " say, complain about Sanders or Warren as a Trump-style radical; or buy into the caricature of Buttigieg as a corporate tool; or retweet, with outrage added, the least enlightened things Biden or Bloomberg has ever said?"

That was a YES last time.

"If elected, every single Democratic presidential candidate would act to slow climate change, raise taxes on the rich, reduce gun deaths, expand voting rights, lower health care and education costs, protect abortion access, enforce civil-rights laws, appoint progressive judges, rebuild overseas alliances and ..."

That wasn't good enough last time; the candidate had to be "perfect" to deserve a vote.

And so here's what happened:

"Donald Trump owes his victory in the Electoral College to three states he won by the smallest number of votes: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. So it's fair to say that the 2016 presidential election was decided by about 77,000 votes out of than 136 million ballots cast.

According to the final tallies, Trump won Pennsylvania by 0.7 percentage points (44,292 votes), Wisconsin by 0.7 points (22,748 votes), Michigan by 0.2 points (10,704 votes). If Clinton had won all three states, she would have won the Electoral College 278 to 260."

www.washingtonexaminer.com

That's a .057 percent of the vote loss predicated on the candidate not being the first choice of a small percentage of voters... which amounts to those voters stroking their own preferences, their own ego, over what is a better outcome for the country.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2020-02-10 12:49 PM | Reply

Corky, - not to pick a fight with you or anything, - but I think you really under-estimate just what an extremely dislikable candidate HRC was to many of us voting in the Democratic primaries in '16. We all know the response is to point out that she would have been much better than Trump. And that is true. But when someone is as dislikable as HRC was, that point becomes obscured. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

#6 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-10 12:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What a joke. None of these keyboard commandos are going to walk door to door or do anything else that requires getting off their lazy rears. They'll just post "orange man bad" on tiny blogs the rest of the year.

#7 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-02-10 12:58 PM | Reply

I will.

#8 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-10 01:00 PM | Reply

Nulli. Stick a sock in it. You don't give a schitt about Dems chances, why pretend that you do?

#9 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-10 01:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

- Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

You are right in both cases; it shouldn't but it has... the question the article asks is will we do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. I understand there is a word for that.

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2020-02-10 01:08 PM | Reply

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Trump trolls like Dull 'N Void are the real joke.

He hasn't made a substantive post in years; trolling libs being his only hobby these days. The funny part is he's proud of that. Apparently it's revenge for the lack of recognition of his self-perceived political genius.... oh, and all those richly-deserved vacations.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2020-02-10 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Leave Nulli alone! You'll scare him away. Now that BuffaloBob is gone Nulli has been my favorite stupid person on the DR for several years now.

#12 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-10 01:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

I will.

Now is the time to disagree and hash out differences (within reason...don't scuttle the ship before we get out of port).

Once a candidate is chosen it's time to focus on getting Trump out of office.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-10 01:55 PM | Reply

Check out the "I will" clones repeating their zombie cult pledge.

I bet you guys would vote for Bloomburp if left to your own devices.

#14 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2020-02-10 02:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- zombie cult pledge.

The Orange Zombie Sheep has baa'd!

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2020-02-10 02:19 PM | Reply

#14 piss off cultist.

Interesting that that's the response from the supposedly jaded "progressive".

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-10 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#IWill. #thistimewillbedifferent #ohnonotagain #whathappened #comfortanimal

#17 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-10 02:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 7

Given his age and his recent heart attack, Bernie's choice for VP will be very important to many voters. You know that person will get extra special scrutiny if he is the nominee. I hope he chooses Warren.

#18 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-10 02:39 PM | Reply

Why are you worried about Democrats? You need to be worried about everyone else, and who they may or may not be willing to vote for.

As I've said many times, I'd happily vote for anyone but Trump...unless Bernie is the nominee.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-10 02:59 PM | Reply

"As I've said many times, I'd happily vote for anyone but Trump"

^
Voting third party like you always do is the functional equivalent of not voting at all.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 05:45 PM | Reply

I hope he chooses Warren.

Not gonna happen. An old white Dem cannot pick another old white person and get out the youth and minority vote.

Bernie is probably strongly considering Stacey Abrams and Andrew Gillum. I think Tammy Duckworth would be an interesting choice.

#21 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-10 05:52 PM | Reply

I hope he chooses Warren.
-----
Not gonna happen. An old white Dem cannot pick another old white person and get out the youth and minority vote...

#21 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2020-02-10 05:52 PM

I've been told that Elizabeth Warren is a woman of color.

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-10 05:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

It's going to Buttigieg.

The DNC is pushing for him as hard as they can.

While trying not to get caught manipulating voter results.

I'll vote for anyone the Dems nominate.

But, I don't see anyone other than Bernie giving Trump a real challenge for the presidency.

#23 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-10 05:59 PM | Reply

22
No, the Indians took that back.

#24 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-10 06:01 PM | Reply

#22 Lol. Her paw-paw did have high cheekbones...

#25 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-10 06:06 PM | Reply

JeffJ you really are blind, aren't you?

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 06:20 PM | Reply

The Question All Democrats Need to Ask Themselves: "Why can't I get a job and become a productive member of society given we have the lowest unemployment in history?"

Sub Questions:
1.) Did I choose the correct major in university before dropping out?
2.) Is drug use holding me back?
3.) Is it normal for my girlfriend to sleep with other guys like she keeps telling me?
4.) Why do I have no plans to move out of my parents' home?

I think that is a good starter list for Dems/Libs.

#27 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 06:48 PM | Reply

What are your answers, IraGoldberg?

What was your major, LOL!

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 06:51 PM | Reply

For Snoofy:

The Question All Democrats Need to Ask Themselves: "Why can't I get a job and become a productive member of society given we have the lowest unemployment in history?"

My answers: Have a job - one of the reasons why I am not a lib

Sub Questions:
1.) Did I choose the correct major in university before dropping out?: Yes. Made over $100,000+/year since I was 24 years old
2.) Is drug use holding me back?: Don't use drugs but I probably drink too much
3.) Is it normal for my girlfriend to sleep with other guys like she keeps telling me?: Don't have an open relationship or cucked. I have a traditional marriage/family.
4.) Why do I have no plans to move out of my parents' home?: I moved out at 18 and never lived there again

If you answers align with mine, chances are you are not a Dem/Lib.

#29 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 06:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Question All Democrats Need to Ask Themselves

When was the last time I bathed?

#30 | Posted by Spork at 2020-02-10 07:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#29 | POSTED BY IRABABOON

Anyone can make up bullshht.

Let's see proof you have a real job, and that you don't live in your mom's basement.

Based on your posting history, it can be concluded you are a fkkking liar suffering from low self esteem.

#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-10 07:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When was the last time I bathed?
#30 | POSTED BY SPORK

What are you, some kind of freaking pervert?

No one cares when you bathed last.

Go get a life, sicko.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-10 07:10 PM | Reply

"Anyone can make up bullshht.
#31 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

Jealousy is not a good look for you. More than that, it shows just how bad you have screwed you life up. Nothing I wrote is anything spectacular - these are just normal upper middle class checklist items - not even 'rich people' wishlist type things. Your wife/gf not banging other guys is a pretty low bar. Not living with your mom after the age of 18 - again - EXPECTED. The fact you see this as some type of bragging is funny.

#33 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 07:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"No one cares when you bathed last.
#32 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK "

You say that now - but, isn't that the major factor you use to determine the price for his used, unwashed underwear that you buy on your fetish websites? I am in a traditional relationship so I don't know how you perverts price these things.

#34 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 07:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Normal people refuse to use sporks.

#35 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-02-10 07:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Normal people refuse to use sporks.
#35 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR"

Hypocritical for pre-op transgenders not to use them.

#36 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 07:18 PM | Reply

So, what was your major, IraGoldberg?

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 07:32 PM | Reply

"So, what was your major, IraGoldberg?
#37 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Undergrad was corporate risk management and insurance
MBA in finance/investments
1st job after MBA paid $110,000 (salary + bonus). Made more than that every year since.

Again, nothing too spectacular.

#38 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 07:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#35 You mean non-binary utensils?

#39 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-02-10 07:44 PM | Reply

"...you are a fkkking liar suffering from low self esteem."
#31 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Why do you act like this when you know it hurts your mother?

#40 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2020-02-10 07:44 PM | Reply

"Undergrad was corporate risk management and insurance
MBA in finance/investments"

Ah, wealth redistribution.
I bet you think you're a productive member of society too!

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 07:46 PM | Reply

#38 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

Snoofy's never made any money. Snoofy is an expense.

#42 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2020-02-10 07:46 PM | Reply

-Snoofy is an expense.

He comes from money...but the source of the money can't stand him so they pay him to stay away and blog all day and night.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-10 07:48 PM | Reply

"Snoofy's never made any money"

For whom?

"Snoofy is an expense."

That's what being an employee is like. Or a veteran, whatever.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 07:52 PM | Reply

#33 & #34 | POSTED BY IRABABOON

No proof to offer for your lies in #29?

I didn't think so.

#45 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-10 07:53 PM | Reply

"Ah, wealth redistribution.
#41 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Ironically - Yes - but not in the way you are thinking. You see, most recently I have been funding a bunch of green energy projects like wind and industrialist scale solar. So I am actively redistributing money for the stupid people insisting on buying green energy based on an irrational fear of 'global warming' to smart people willing to indulge their nonsensical thinking and sell/install/operate such industrial scale projects in the US and globally.

But I will drive my point home again - I am not a rags to riches billionaire story. I am what was the expected outcome for every middle class/upper middle class family in the US. That you have failed so drastically at producing any wealth for yourself is really telling in your political leanings and resulting jealousy of others. Snoofy - maybe you can't get that $15/hour job working for McDonalds in your city. That does not mean you should live at home and fill yourself with hate/rage at those more successful. It is a sign that you should spread your wings and go somewhere where unskilled workers like you can still make decent money - like the fracking fields in the Dakotas. Yeah, it is not living in a nice coastal city and the work may be dirty and hard - but the feeling of accomplishment will be worth it to you. You really should consider it - hell, your mom may even pay for your bus ticket. Nothing worthwhile happens without some sacrifice.

#46 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 08:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I have been funding"

Does this mean capitalizing, or pushing paper?
Either way, good for you!

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 08:30 PM | Reply

#45 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

You want me to post my linkedin profile or something? Do you think I want deranged leftists doxxing me an knowing where my wife and I live? Seriously?

The best I will do for you is to answer your financial questions and prove my credentials that way. So ask away - options questions, investment structure questions, your choice.

#48 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 08:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Does this mean capitalizing, or pushing paper?
#47 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Yes to both. Everything from bringing in investors to structuring the long term transfer rates of the electricity generated to arranging bank financing to providing my own money. Everything in the value chain.

#49 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 08:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Why all this talk about who's doing better in life? Life is a mystery. How much money you've earned or who your wife is or isn't f**king is boring nonsense,why waste people's time with that? Maybe Ira needs a hug,he sounds miserable to me,money or not.

#50 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-10 08:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

GZLives and WhiteDevil....
Where are they?
What's the last anyone heard?

#51 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-10 08:46 PM | Reply

"Why all this talk about who's doing better in life?
#50 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER "

You are asking the wrong person - that is not the obsession of the Right - it is the obsession of the LEFT. Jealousy is my guess. For the Right, we just focus on improving our lot in life through our own hard work. The Left thinks it is easier to simply take from those more successful. Do you not know who Bernie Sanders or AOC is?

#52 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 08:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

who your wife is or isn't f**king is boring nonsense...
Posted by effetecuck

#53 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-10 08:47 PM | Reply

For the Right, we just focus on improving our lot in life through our own hard work.

If you feel the Right is the only group that has the same focus, you're an absolute fool.

#54 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-10 08:49 PM | Reply

#51 Chair,

It's been multiple years since I've seen a post from GZ. WhiteDevil aka rightisright made a cameo roughly a year ago.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-10 08:52 PM | Reply

They both cracked me.
Thanks.

#56 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-10 09:01 PM | Reply

You want me to post my linkedin profile or something? Do you think I want deranged leftists doxxing me an knowing where my wife and I live? Seriously?
#48 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

Be specific here, IRA. What deranged leftist are you imagining that will stalk you from the DR?

#57 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-10 09:04 PM | Reply

Iragoldberg, Do you understand the motivations of the left at all? You seem clueless to me. Maybe they don't see life as a zero sum game of who's f**king who or who has the most money. Maybe they think all person's have value,Even life's "losers". The world is wide,there is room here for all types of human development,if THE SWINISH WOULD STOP TAKING EVERYTHING FOR THEMSELVES. The left, including AOC and BERNIE are trying to stop them from doing that. That's why I am with them and not TRUMP and YOU.

#58 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-10 09:17 PM | Reply

"That you have failed so drastically at producing any wealth for yourself is really telling in your political leanings and resulting jealousy of others."

This is nonsense.
I'm not jealous of anyone's success.
I'm especially not jealous of people who judge their success merely by accumulating wealth, as though that's a worthwhile endeavor in it's own right.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 09:56 PM | Reply

"For the Right, we just focus on improving our lot in life through our own hard work."

I don't get it.
You're making the big deals.
In what manner is your lot in life in need of improvement, in ways that are achieved through having more money?

Is there like a Picasso or a Ferrari you just have to have or something?
And you say we're jealous?

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 09:59 PM | Reply

"It is a sign that you should spread your wings and go somewhere"

This part I probably agree with. California people are weird. I like the east coast better. Or maybe it's time to leave USA while I still can... the grass is always greener you know!

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 10:06 PM | Reply

For the Right, we just focus on improving our lot in life through our own hard work.

----

There's blessings that you have beyond your own hard work.

#62 | Posted by pirate at 2020-02-10 10:28 PM | Reply

My word, leave this place for over a year and it is still days of our lives, it has not changed a single bit. Still crying about Trump. LOL...Guess it will be 4 more years before new conversations begin to begin for this left side area.

#63 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-02-10 10:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good to see you, Crassus. Of course you're right. The hysterics won't end until there is a Democrat in the White House.

#64 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-02-10 10:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Maybe they don't see life as a zero sum game

And yet, instead of creating wealth for yourself, you want to take wealth from others and redistribute it as if it were a finite resource. Interesting.

In what manner is your lot in life in need of improvement, in ways that are achieved through having more money?

Ira never said his life needed improvement, nor that money would be a means to that end. He just said he's living the dream, earning his way through life.

#65 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-02-10 10:46 PM | Reply

"I don't get it.
You're making the big deals.
In what manner is your lot in life in need of improvement, in ways that are achieved through having more money?
#60 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

For me, I don't only focus on myself, I focus on my children, parents, and family. I want their life to be easier than the road I had to pave for myself. Isn't that what any responsible person would want? However, I know that we live in a world of finite resources. I wish I could help everyone - but that is not a reality. So I focus on my immediate family first - be productive AND - MOST IMPORTANT - don't be a drag on society by sucking on the government teat. I have never done that and I would rather abort my kids post-birth than to have them require welfare payments from the government.

#66 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 10:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Nice talking with you Nulli, I have been reading through a couple of threads and just can't believe the delusions going on here and how the same people here have not grown or moved in anyway but to hate trump.

It certainly tells those of us who are independent and think independently why the dem party is going down faster than they can lower their standard.

#67 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-02-10 10:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I have been reading through a couple of threads and just can't believe the delusions going on here and how the same people here have not grown or moved in anyway but to hate trump.
#67 | POSTED BY CRASSUS"

There are people on here that could have learned multiple foreign languages, learned to code, or completed an apprentice program in building trades in the time they have wasted posting - any of which would actually serve to improve their lot in life. Instead, they chose to be lazy and have grown increasingly angry as they are not participating in a very, very good economy. I think it has finally dawned on them - if they can't make something of themselves the last 3 years - they probably never will be able to. So, fight for socialism so the burden is not on them.

#68 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 10:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I want their life to be easier than the road I had to pave for myself."

LOL.
But you think adversity builds character!
Anyway, they'll end up like your impression of me.
"Spare the rod and spoil the child."

"be productive AND - MOST IMPORTANT - don't be a drag on society by sucking on the government teat."

You make it sound like sucking on your boss's teat is better.
It ain't necessarily so.
Because it ain't necessarily productive.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 10:57 PM | Reply

I have never done that and I would rather abort my kids post-birth than to have them require welfare payments from the government.

----

You should write that on their birthday cards.

#70 | Posted by Pirate at 2020-02-10 11:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And yet, instead of creating wealth for yourself, you want to take wealth from others and redistribute it as if it were a finite resource"

Well, assuming you believe it's not a zero-sum game, and wealth can truly be created, then it shows restraint and genuine fiscal conservatism to treat (other people's) wealth like it's a finite resource.

That being said, I have a hard time believing it's not a zero-sum game, in the long run, because of a thing called thermodynamics. All this cheap energy we get comes at the cost of global warming. It's going to cost a lot.

I don't understand why people don't want to work towards a vision of humanity like we see in Star Trek.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 11:02 PM | Reply

"He just said he's living the dream, earning his way through life."

^
If the dream is to "earn your way through life" then what's reality?
Holy ---- you people set the bar low.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 11:05 PM | Reply

Most of all, I will never be able to see how Trump doesn't strike you as being nearly exactly the same as your idea of Snoofy.

Born rich.
Sucked at business.
Buys wives like they're used Hondas.

This is what you want for yourselves and your children, I take it?

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-10 11:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You should write that on their birthday cards.
#70 | POSTED BY PIRATE"

Don't need to. I raised them with pride and self respect. So, no need to remind them.

#74 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2020-02-10 11:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The Question all Democrats need to ask themselves"

Do any of you actually look across the "entire country," not just extreme liberal areas, and see what is actually going on.

Have any of you actually looked at the democratic party in real honesty and evaluation? Corrupt and taking on issues that serve the majority of the nation in meaningless. Just keep focusing on the green deal, free everything cause the real people across the nation know we will get all those freeeeeeeeeeeeeee things....LOL!

#75 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-02-10 11:16 PM | Reply

The all consuming pursuit of money is the path to a shallow life. Try devoting your life to something you can believe in. Such as those people all around you. If you do, as you lay on your deathbed many years from now, you will not regret how you have devoted your short time on Earth.

#76 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-10 11:17 PM | Reply

Humanity is doomed.The pursuit of endless wealth will be our extinction. The living Earth is rapidly failing to keep up with our endless need for more JUNK. Hell yes,it's a zero sum game. The Earth is finite. We are finite in our ability to adapt to rapid change. Rapid change and high population lead to mortality crashes. Think lemmings,or even more to the point,the rapid extinction of the passenger pigeons. They went from 3-5 billion to none in forty years. Look it up, you will see that I am not bullschitting. Late stage capitalism well spell our extinction sooner or later if not by war than by environmental collapse.

#77 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-10 11:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You should join the Voluntary Human Extinction movement and promise not to have children.

#78 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-02-10 11:46 PM | Reply

I don't have any. I live my beliefs.

#79 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:08 AM | Reply

"Voluntary Human Extinction movement"

OK Boomer.

Those are called Incels now, and it's because of The Pill, and legal abortion, because no chick in their right mind will try to make a family with them.

Then there's this other thing you might have heard about, from me, over and over again. Lots more people can't afford to have kids these days because since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households. The generational wealth that IraGoldberg is hoping to build, and some of our forefathers built to sustain you families for generations, has dried up, and flowed up, for most.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 12:21 AM | Reply

Lots more people can't afford to have kids these days because since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.

Thanks illegal immigration!

#81 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-02-11 12:30 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Do any of you actually look across the "entire country," not just extreme liberal areas, and see what is actually going on.

No they haven't ... I have driven across the country twice since summer of 2015, I predicted Trumps win very early on. The Liberals see it as fly over, or too close to cows to care.

free everything cause the real people across the nation know we will get all those freeeeeeeeeeeeeee things....LOL!

Nailed it...

#82 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-02-11 12:33 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's not about free things,it's about helping people get ahead instead of cutthroat competition. It's about investing in labor and human development instead of mindless accumulation for a few. It's about treating wages as more important than capital gains.Which should be taxed at a far Higher rate than wages. It's about the wealthy paying proportionately to their receipt of services. It's about everyone having a seat at the table. Not just stockholders. Capital gains are rich men getting richer.Wages are the lifeblood of working society.If anything,wages should be tax exempt and capital gains should be taxed at least 30 percent.

#83 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Thanks illegal immigration!"

How much of the bottom 80% is illegal immigrant households, Andrea, a mattress?
???

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:30 AM | Reply

#64
2019
The costs of illegal immigration are comprehensive. Even after deducting the $19 billion in taxes paid by illegal immigrants, the 12.5 million of them living in the country results in a $116 billion burden on the economy and taxpayers each year. About two-thirds of this amount is absorbed by local and state taxpayers, who are often the least unable to share the costs.

#85 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2020-02-11 04:55 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households...which is is a meaningless statistic if you don't take into account mobility - how many times folks on average move from one bracket into another. But then, you like cherry-picking statistics in order to build a false narrative.

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-11 07:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

jhr.uwpress.org

We find that mobility increased from 1950 to 1980 but has declined sharply since 1980

There you go

#87 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-02-11 07:37 AM | Reply

"I bet you think you're a productive member of society too!"

Statistically speaking, employers are willing to pay workers with an MBA an average of $110k per year. It really doesn't matter what Ira thinks of himself. It's what his employer thinks. And his employer would seem to view Ira as a productive member of society.

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 07:56 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I'm especially not jealous of people who judge their success merely by accumulating wealth, as though that's a worthwhile endeavor in it's own right."

Really, only the individual themselves can determine whether or not they consider themselves successful. But whatever your individual vector for success, you must be willing to take the good with the bad. Some may sacrifice time and energy for more money. Some may sacrifice more money for more time and energy. But the latter shouldn't assume that someone is going to provide them with more money without giving up that time and energy. Which is pretty much what Bernie is demanding.

I'd love to be a ski instructor. But I understand that, if I choose that route, my househould income would be cut by around 84%. And I don't want to be a ski instructor bad enough to be poor as well.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 09:36 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"In what manner is your lot in life in need of improvement, in ways that are achieved through having more money?"

For me, as a kid growing up, we took vacations to my grandmothers house in San Jose. Or maybe went camping. Always drove. Never flew.

For Spring Break this year, we've rented a house on Mallorca. Money makes that possible.

#90 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 09:42 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"It's not about free things,it's about helping people get ahead instead of cutthroat competition. It's about investing in labor and human development instead of mindless accumulation for a few."

These are two very different, and very mutually exclusive concepts. The lack of competition in a market is what is going to make one rich. If we all had the skills of a surgeon, surgeon's wouldn't make as much as they do. At the same time, investing in labor and human development would only service to increase competition within the labor markets, something you appear to see as a negative.

At the end of the day, we may not be qualified surgeons, but we are fully qualified unskilled laborers...which makes that market incredibly competitive. Which is why you're an idiot if you don't pursue an education. It's not like it takes a crystal ball to find the way to a decent income.

#91 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 09:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The living Earth is rapidly failing to keep up with our endless need for more JUNK."

Good thing you're not from earth.

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 09:53 AM | Reply

If you answers align with mine, chances are you are not a Dem/Lib.

#29 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

Chances are you're making schit up because it's an anonymous online forum.

#93 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-11 11:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

free everything cause the real people across the nation know we will get all those freeeeeeeeeeeeeee things.

Those free things aren't for you. They're only for the rich. So stop expecting anything from your taxes. Your taxes belong to the rich. Your only job in life is to be a source of labor for the rich and to die without making too much of a fuss.

#94 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-11 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If elected, every single Democratic presidential candidate would act to slow climate change"

This is what scares the heck out of me with all the candidates. We seem unable or unwilling to distinguish meaningful acts and "at least we did something acts" that have no real impact to the issue.

If I ran on a platform of taxing businesses to death, raising individual taxes, outlawing any form of fossil fuels and mandate all green energy with all the tax money going to fund it I could whip up the masses into a frenzy.

The only problem is I'd destroy the economy and reduce the man made carbon going into the atmosphere at best by about 1/10 of a percent.

I am not saying to do nothing, but Greta skipping school, driving a tesla, protesting to get a windmill in your town is not going to cut it.

We need to be investing in new technologies to counter climate change, and in carbon sequestration technologies. Show me a candidate that will run on that platform and I'll vote for them regardless of party, gender, race, etc....

#95 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2020-02-11 11:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What would be "meaningful acts"? Anything? You have no answers, no meaningful input. Can you give us an example? At least Greta is trying to help and making some gesture. You've got NOTHING. Just more of the same until, what. We all go extinct. Or we lose half the Earth's species for human greed and consumption. Please, tell us what IS meaningful action, I'd love to hear it.

#96 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:28 PM | Reply

Missed the bottom of your post ,I see you have something. Not much but something.

#97 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:31 PM | Reply

Is tech. The only answer? Maybe sacrificing our"way of life" is required as well. If it was,would you be willing? Or would extinction be preferable to jarring sudden change?. Are people really that rigid? If so, I fear that extinction may be our lot. Animals that cannot adapt to sudden change either die back to manageable levels or die out.99 percent of all species that have ever lived are EXTINCT. Man,even given his numbers is not immune.

#98 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:44 PM | Reply

Is tech. The only answer? Maybe sacrificing our"way of life" is required as well. If it was,would you be willing? Or would extinction be preferable to jarring sudden change?. Are people really that rigid? If so, I fear that extinction may be our lot. Animals that cannot adapt to sudden change either die back to manageable levels or die out.99 percent of all species that have ever lived are EXTINCT. Man,even given his numbers is not immune.

#99 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:44 PM | Reply

Is tech. The only answer? Maybe sacrificing our"way of life" is required as well. If it was,would you be willing? Or would extinction be preferable to jarring sudden change?. Are people really that rigid? If so, I fear that extinction may be our lot. Animals that cannot adapt to sudden change either die back to manageable levels or die out.99 percent of all species that have ever lived are EXTINCT. Man,even given his numbers is not immune.

#100 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:44 PM | Reply

Is tech. The only answer? Maybe sacrificing our"way of life" is required as well. If it was,would you be willing? Or would extinction be preferable to jarring sudden change?. Are people really that rigid? If so, I fear that extinction may be our lot. Animals that cannot adapt to sudden change either die back to manageable levels or die out.99 percent of all species that have ever lived are EXTINCT. Man,even given his numbers is not immune.

#101 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:45 PM | Reply

"Your taxes belong to the rich."

Your taxes?

47% of households aren't contributing to the funding of the federal government. The taxes they do pay go to cover their individual entitlements. So unless you're sitting on the left hand side of the taxpayer bell curve, you've got no right to make any claim to those taxes.

"Your only job in life is to be a source of labor for the rich and to die without making too much of a fuss."

Or not. Nobody is going to make you accept employment you don't want to accept.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 12:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Damn,phone. Sorry.

#103 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:46 PM | Reply

"We need to be investing in new technologies to counter climate change, and in carbon sequestration technologies."

It's already happening. It's doubtful my kids will own a petrol burning vehicle unless they own some sort of freight hauler or an airplane. And it's not happening because the government is demanding it...it's being driven by the market.

When was the last time you had to hit a store on the way home to fill up your whale oil tank? Before long, you'll be asking the same of fossil fuels. I don't think it's going to have much of an impact on climate change, but part of reconciling climate change is the recognition that it's happening, it's going to continue to happen, and it would continue to happen even if every last human on the planet died quickly of Coronavirus.

#104 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 12:49 PM | Reply

"Animals that cannot adapt to sudden change either die back to manageable levels or die out.99 percent of all species that have ever lived are EXTINCT. Man,even given his numbers is not immune."

I'm fairly confident that if man can find a way to live in space or under water, remaining on earth will present limited challenges.

#105 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-11 12:51 PM | Reply

Scrap the fed. States rights baby, 50 little countries always at war,just like old Europe. No income taxes,what's mine is MINE. Why are the rich always such ------ anyway?

#106 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:53 PM | Reply

#104 what if we were to experience sudden unexplained reproductive difficulties or something like that? Many bird species have been lost in this way.Even birds that were historically superbundant so I would not be TOO sure about our special invulnerability.

#107 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 12:58 PM | Reply

Maybe sacrificing our"way of life" is required as well

If you abandom petroleum-fueled vehicles, it won't just be the way of life that is sacrificed, it will be lives themselves.

It's doubtful my kids will own a petrol burning vehicle unless they own some sort of freight hauler

Maybe not own...but they'll rely on them...something totally lost on most urban progressives. No diesel means no combines and harvesters, no freight, no transoceanic shipping, et al. If we flipped the switch tomorrow, we'd probably kill 100 million people over a year in the US alone.

#108 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-02-11 12:58 PM | Reply

That's easy to solve. Ban private combustion vehicles but exempt farm equipment and some transport freight vehicles until the full changeover is complete. Private cars are the single biggest cause of emissions today.

#109 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-11 01:10 PM | Reply

Great. Now sell it to the rest of the World. Stupid talk that the public would never buy

#110 | Posted by wisgod at 2020-02-11 01:15 PM | Reply

#109

Do you have any idea how many tens of millions of people in this country rely on petrol burning cars? But, yeah, just ban them. No biggie.

#111 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-11 01:24 PM | Reply

Where's MadBomber to say Americans survived just fine without cars for well over a century?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:25 PM | Reply

"47% of households aren't contributing to the funding of the federal government."

They are.
They pay excise tax and payroll tax.
They just aren't paying Federal income tax.

That being said, given that since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households, it's only natural that practically all the income tax is paid by the top 20% of households.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:33 PM | Reply

#112 Oh, many would. The ones that would die are the ones who couldn't feed themselves, relied on deliveries of medication, etc.. it would be ugly if you lived in a major urban center - no source of fresh food, no garbage pick up. Snake Plisskin would be hard-pressed to escape.

#114 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-02-11 01:34 PM | Reply

And it's not happening because the government is demanding it...it's being driven by the market.

Only after publicly funded, non-profit driven research did a lot of the heavy lifting.

Of course that won't be remembered in the future when short sighted morons yet again want to cut public R&D funding.

#115 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-11 01:36 PM | Reply

"Nobody is going to make you accept employment you don't want to accept."

I guess "Starvation" and "Homelessness" and "Medical expenses" aren't people.

The realities of life make people accept employment they don't want to accept.

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Tell me where I'm wrong.

Well, assuming that by payroll tax you mean FICA, it doesn't "fund US government". Some of it pays for medicare and the rest is an investment in our advanced years, right?

#117 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-02-11 01:43 PM | Reply

"So unless you're sitting on the left hand side of the taxpayer bell curve"

It's not a bell curve, just like household income distribution is not a bell curve.

Most people get a little, a few people get a lot.

It took me a while to understand why people who get so little, their hearts bleed for those who get so much.

But, it's because they think the people who get a lot are better than average people, so they deserve more than average people. It's a hope that if the very few and the very rich are able to fashion themselves bigger coattails, there will be more for the little people to cling to.

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:46 PM | Reply

"fund US government"

Any Federal expense, including SSI and Medicare, is part of that definition. The downstream cost of tariffs should be included too.

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:48 PM | Reply

Most of all, I will never be able to see how Trump doesn't strike you as being nearly exactly the same as your idea of Snoofy.

Born rich.
Sucked at business.
Buys wives like they're used Hondas.

^
Still no answer to this I see.
Oh well. Maybe I'll go play golf.

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:50 PM | Reply

And is the President. What's your talking point after elected to another term, Einstein? Nips in the perimeter?

#121 | Posted by wisgod at 2020-02-11 02:32 PM | Reply

"Nips in the perimeter?"

Good strategy, make the Nips inside the wire a scapegoat, like you've already done for the Illegals the and Muslims.
Everyone loves things that come in threes anyway.
Like President's wives.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 03:00 PM | Reply

But for racism, Trump would never stand any chance at re-election. The hatred of black people and brown people ties millions of Middle America White voters to Trump.

#123 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-11 03:01 PM | Reply

Good to see you, Crassus. Of course you're right. The hysterics won't end until there is a Democrat in the White House.
#64 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

And we can expect you to be here, everyday, begging for more.

Predictable.

#124 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-11 04:29 PM | Reply

There are people on here that could have learned multiple foreign languages, learned to code, or completed an apprentice program in building trades in the time they have wasted posting - any of which would actually serve to improve their lot in life.
#68 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

And somehow that does NOT apply to you? Get off your ------- high horse, IRA.

#125 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-11 04:31 PM | Reply

I have never done that and I would rather abort my kids post-birth than to have them require welfare payments from the government.
#66 | POSTED BY IRAGOLDBERG

Many who choose abortion pre-birth have a similar thought process, yet conservatives rail against them for choosing death over life. So, do you adhere to freedom of choice in terms of abortion? Or are do you suffer from cognitive dissonance like every other pro-lifer who doesn't consider the contextual reasoning behind poor women having abortions?

#126 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-11 04:37 PM | Reply

Thanks illegal immigration!
#81 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

You know exactly who actually screams this from the roof tops, don't you? Or maybe you don't. If not, let me ask you: how many illegals were/are employed at Maralago?

#127 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-11 04:39 PM | Reply

Nobody is going to make you accept employment you don't want to accept.
#102 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Maybe not a person, but life circumstances certainly will. Or are you so naive that you ignore the plight and lack of legitimate opportunities for growth and skill development for certain populations?

#128 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-11 04:41 PM | Reply

Thanks illegal immigration!

POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2020-02-11 12:30 AM | REPLY

Polly wanna cracker Polly wanna cracker.

#129 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-02-11 04:48 PM | Reply

Tell me where I'm wrong. - #113 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-11 01:33 PM
On the Drudge Retort, mostly.

#130 | Posted by Avigdore at 2020-02-11 04:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Where's MadBomber to say Americans survived just fine without cars for well over a century?"

I'm right here.

Don't forget to ban meat as well. I bet you didn't know that livestock is bad for the environment. There is a movement in Europe to impose a heavy tax on the sale of meat.

#131 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 12:24 AM | Reply

"They pay excise tax and payroll tax. They just aren't paying Federal income tax."

Thanks for repeating what I said.

#132 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 12:25 AM | Reply

"It took me a while to understand why people who get so little, their hearts bleed for those who get so much."

You live in the US.

You don't know anyone who is getting just a little. Not unless you have friends or relatives in the developing world.

And I still don't understand why people who have so much get their panties in a wad because someone else has more. Lack of perspective I guess.

#133 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 12:27 AM | Reply

"The realities of life make people accept employment they don't want to accept."

You mean the reality that, for most people, selling your labor at minimum wage will still provide a far more lavish lifestyle than choosing to use your labor on your own?

You don't need much in the form of material worth to move north and build a cabin in the Alaskan wilderness. Thousands of people do it...specifically to escape the "realities" you mention.

#134 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 12:30 AM | Reply

"Maybe not a person, but life circumstances certainly will. Or are you so naive that you ignore the plight and lack of legitimate opportunities for growth and skill development for certain populations?"

Please see #134

#135 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 12:38 AM | Reply

You live in the US.
You don't know anyone who is getting just a little.

Within the context of the US, 4 in 5 households are just getting a little.
Would that money go further in Yemen? No doubt.
Does that change the fact that it doesn't go far in America? No.

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 02:38 AM | Reply

"because someone else has more."

A rising tide should lift all boats, not just mostly lift the 1 in 5 largest boats.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 02:40 AM | Reply

"The realities of life make people accept employment they don't want to accept."

You mean the reality that, for most people, selling your labor at minimum wage will still provide a far more lavish lifestyle than choosing to use your labor on your own?

^
I mean what I said.
People take jobs they don't want all the time.
You've never talked to your favored sex worker about this?

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 02:41 AM | Reply

"the reality that, for most people, selling your labor at minimum wage"

The reality you describe is one where it's a rich man's world, we just live here to serve the rich, or starve.
Maybe a few can find a way to employ their labor profitably for their own benefit.
For the rest of us, it's serve the rich, or starve.

Just wondering why you think that's so great.

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 02:47 AM | Reply

"Within the context of the US, 4 in 5 households are just getting a little."

That's like saying that, within top 1%, 4 out of 5 households are getting just a little. In fact in the top 1% of US households, it would probably be closer to 9 out of 10 households.

"Would that money go further in Yemen? No doubt."

It wouldn't. If I were to re-create the house in own in the US in Yemen, it would cost far more. The land may be much cheaper, but the granite countertops, custom countertops, air conditioner, refrigerator, etc., would cost a lot more.

"A rising tide should lift all boats, not just mostly lift the 1 in 5 largest boats."

A rising tide has lifted all boats. Or at least 4 out of 5, with the 5th staying stable or increasing. Your problem appears to be with the very natural and predictable fact that those with greater economic value or getting richer and a higher marginal rate.

#140 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 02:57 AM | Reply

The hysterics won't end until there is a Democrat in the White House.
#64 | Posted by nullifidian

Then we can be civil again.

-- Hillary Clinton

LOL

#141 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2020-02-12 02:57 AM | Reply

"I mean what I said. People take jobs they don't want all the time. You've never talked to your favored sex worker about this?"

Sex work is a pretty well accepted profession where I live here in Germany. I never pegged you as a prude, Snoof.

#142 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 02:58 AM | Reply

The reality you describe is one where it's a rich man's world, we just live here to serve the rich, or starve.

The reality I described is a world where you are responsible for you have to make a decision that best befits you. You can work for someone and earn an income, or head off on your own and use your labor for your own sustenance and survival. That's pretty much it. You seem to think that there is some viable third choice. There's not. At least not one where you're dependent on someone to provide for you sustenance and well-being.

The rich are always going to pay your bills. Your issue seems to be with having to give something back in return.

#143 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 03:01 AM | Reply

#139 Because he's a dumb$$s. He is proud to be a slave. Because he apologizes for exploitation like the good house servant that he is. He talks a strong game but my hunch is his reality is quite weak.

#144 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 03:03 AM | Reply

"Just wondering why you think that's so great."

I don't buy it, first off. It sounds like an excuse a loser would make in order to justify their own failures. I'm pretty happy with where I'm at now. And if this is me slaving away for the man...I'm cool with it.

#145 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 03:03 AM | Reply

"#139 Because he's a dumb$$s. He is proud to be a slave. Because he apologizes for exploitation like the good house servant that he is. He talks a strong game but my hunch is his reality is quite weak."

Jeez, if I'm weak...where does that leave you? I can't hardly believe you're off the ---.

#146 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 03:05 AM | Reply

Even on the ---. I'd try to bite that ------.

#147 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 03:11 AM | Reply

Madbomber,seriously, why do you identify so strongly with the ownership class? Are you independently wealthy? Do you own vast tracts of land that you rent to peons? Snoofy seems sincere in his belief that the rich,Buy influence and power over others almost like slaveowners, which in America, includes even Congress since citizens United. We are all chattel to the plutocrats and you seem to love it.thats what I mean by house servant. You have interalized the ethic of exploitation so much so that you "love big brother" I find this to be unbelievably servile and cringing. Hope the high pay is worth it,you seem to have lost your spirit as a Free man along the way. Good luck to you.

#148 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 03:34 AM | Reply

"Madbomber, seriously, why do you identify so strongly with the ownership class?"

Yeah. I own a house. A few cars. Some investments. But I don't really identify with anyone. What I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that you could wipe the top 1% off the face of the planet...and it's not going to make me any richer. In fact it's going to make me quite a bit poorer. Because someone is going to have to make up for the massive loss in tax revenues if they were to disappear.

"Hope the high pay is worth it,you seem to have lost your spirit as a Free man along the way."

You don't even seem to realize that the well trodden path to socialism also inevitably leads to servitude and a loss of freedom. You and I can disagree on whether or not employees are beholden to their employers...but there is absolutely no doubt that in a socialist state, citizens are servants of the state. It has to be that way in order for socialism to succeed.

#149 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 05:23 AM | Reply

I definitely have nothing in common with the activist class. Those who idolize Bernie Sanders...a man who never held a real job in his life. A dude who was too lazy even for the communists...I DEFINITELY have nothing in common with those losers.

#150 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 05:42 AM | Reply

He wasn't too lazy for Communists. He was there on a temporary pass and evicted by their strict border controls.

#151 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-02-12 08:08 AM | Reply

That's more hilarious than getting kicked out of a commune for politicking and not working if you ask me.

#152 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-02-12 08:08 AM | Reply

SO many lefties here claim there is more to life than clamoring for more money.
I call BS or else why are so many lefties jealous of someone elses' money and fully expect them to give it away?

#153 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-02-12 09:32 AM | Reply

I never pegged you as a prude, Snoof.

I'm not.
You're dodging the question.
Because you know people take jobs they don't want, if that is what it takes to get by.

#154 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 11:25 AM | Reply

"That's like saying that, within top 1%, 4 out of 5 households are getting just a little."

Not really, because I'm talking about the income growth for 100% of households and you're talking about the income growth for the top 1% of households.

I'm talking about 100x more households than you are.

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 11:27 AM | Reply

Big commitment from 9 DR lefties. That should do it!

#156 | Posted by wisgod at 2020-02-12 11:53 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#149 Who said anything about eliminating the 1percent but you? These crybabies whine that PAYING AS MUCH IN TAXES AS EVERYONE ELSE IS LIKE MASS MURDER oh,boo hoo. Massive corporations should have to pay their own costs and not try to push them on everyone else. Big polluters should clean up after themselves and not leave the mess for someone else to clean up,or not.The truly rich get treated like royalty was in the ancien regime. No taxes on the Masters of the universe,those are for the proles. Need subsidies to be profitable? No problem. Privatize the gains and socialize the liabilities. Maybe people are sick of watching rich ------- who know better play the victim while they victimize everyone else. Trump is the classic example of that. He is never wrong,always being treated"unfairly" and never pays his bills on time. He cheats at every thing he does.

#157 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 12:13 PM | Reply

Phester mistakes disdain for jealousy.

#158 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-12 12:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#153 Nobody is clamoring for them to give it away. With great power comes great responsibility, wealth is power,great wealth is awesome power. I am only saying that if they have so much? They should pay more because they are more in control of the course society is taking. They need to be checked for the good of
everyone who is not Them.

#159 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 12:25 PM | Reply

"Phester mistakes disdain for jealousy."

Isn't "mistake" the word you use when it's unintentional?

#160 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-02-12 12:38 PM | Reply

You don't even seem to realize that the well trodden path to socialism also inevitably leads to servitude and a loss of freedom.

Does that include Democratic Socialism, or just capitalism with strong social programs, like the European countries you spend time in that have better standards of living and HDI than the United States?

#161 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-12 12:58 PM | Reply

"I'm not. You're dodging the question. Because you know people take jobs they don't want, if that is what it takes to get by."

I'm not dodging anything. They could also get by via moving to Alaska and living off the land. But it's going to be easier to take the minimum wage job that it will be surviving in the wilderness.

#162 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 01:14 PM | Reply

"Does that include Democratic Socialism, or just capitalism with strong social programs, like the European countries you spend time in that have better standards of living and HDI than the United States?"

Every last program you're referencing in Europe was made possible through the power of capitalism, and implemented by a society that was willing to incur higher taxes in order to provide these programs.

Democratic socialism, as far as I can tell, simply refers to a form of socialism that is at any given time able to interact within a multi-party system. In other words, it differs from traditional socialism in that the latter demands a restriction on all other parties specifically for the purpose of protecting the movement. But outside of a construct where the wealth creators are willing to accept being highly taxed for the benefit of others, a socialist party will have no other means but to use force in order to protect the movement. As an example, what would top income earners do if the government imposed an income tax rate of 90% on all earned income over $1M? I think that once they hit that mark, they'd stop working. Use that time for something more beneficial than paying someone else's bills. And if the socialist government is dependent on the money they had planned on earning, then they need to find a way to compel those individuals earning more than $1M to keep working, even though they're getting very little out of it.

And the vast difference between the US and European taxpayers is acceptance of taxes in order to fund programs. As I've said countless times before, European countries have brought on themselves huge Value Added Taxes in order to pay for many of the goods and services provided by the state. Americans want the services...but only if someone else is willing to pay for them. Bernie would be dead in the water if he were to propose a VAT to pay for MFA or free college...because the Bros aren't promoting a measure where they would make sacrifices...they only expect others to make them.

#163 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 01:27 PM | Reply

"Not really, because I'm talking about the income growth for 100% of households and you're talking about the income growth for the top 1% of households."

But you're talking about US households. On a global scale, anyone making more than $32k a year is in the global 1%.

#164 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 01:29 PM | Reply

Every last program you're referencing in Europe was made possible through the power of capitalism, and implemented by a society that was willing to incur higher taxes in order to provide these programs.

I know, that's why i said "capitalism with strong social programs," which is exactly what many people want in America and you ridiculously deride as "socialism" so you can bust out the Venezuela false equivalence.

#165 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-12 01:36 PM | Reply

"I know, that's why i said "capitalism with strong social programs," which is exactly what many people want in America and you ridiculously deride as "socialism" so you can bust out the Venezuela false equivalence."

No. By your own admission, people want capitalism. It is capitalism that makes this all possible. In all honesty, Bernie should be the biggest cheerleader for capitalism in the party, as he needs far more of it in order to fund his proposed plans and programs.

And Venezuela is an excellent example of socialism. It's shows what happens when socialism is no longer backed by capitalism.

So I don't really disagree with you. But unlike the western European countries, I don't see Americans willing to embrace a VAT as a means of providing for new social programs. On the left or the right.

#166 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 01:43 PM | Reply

Wonder how Medicare for all would deal with the Coronavirus?
Nobody will ask because the Candidates would blame Trump like you clowns.

#167 | Posted by wisgod at 2020-02-12 01:48 PM | Reply

#163 If we were to cut the military budget by say,60 percent and imposed a VAT Of 5percent that would give us about a trillion dollars for universal non means tested healthcare and other programs. You are saying that Americans are too STUPID to see the gains here and you may be right. Certainly the plutocrats,your Lord's and Masters, would prefer that and would spend millions to prevent it from happening.
However,in a Fair vote I believe many Americans would rather have world class heath care and cheaper college than more nukes and F35s. But there would probably be no FAIR vote because the Masters of the universe seem to prefer tax cuts and endless profitable wars.
Americans can be very obtuse and even dumb,but it takes massive sustained propaganda to get the kind of stupidity from the electorate that you describe. Your Lord's and Masters would be proud of you for pushing their agenda for them so passionately,good work,boy. Now go get yourself a slice of fresh watermelon before you get BACK TO WORK!!

#168 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 02:23 PM | Reply

Nice touch at the end, douche

#169 | Posted by wisgod at 2020-02-12 02:42 PM | Reply

#166 You're missing my point, as usual.

You round up any argument in favor of strong social programs to "socialism" despite acknowledging that such programs are possible within the confines of capitalism.

#170 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-12 02:42 PM | Reply

"#163 If we were to cut the military budget by say,60 percent and imposed a VAT Of 5percent that would give us about a trillion dollars for universal non means tested healthcare and other programs."

Your problem is that you're presupposing that the taxpayers would be willing to spend a commensurate amount of money on someone else's healthcare as they would be to fund the military at current levels. You're also presupposing (I assume) that a change to the National Security Strategy wouldn't have any negative impacts, with our allies or our adversaries.

"However, in a Fair vote I believe many Americans would rather have world class heath care and cheaper college than more nukes and F35s. But there would probably be no FAIR vote because the Masters of the universe seem to prefer tax cuts and endless profitable wars."

What's a fair vote? A plebiscite? 51% of the population voting on how to spend the money of 100% of the population? I'm in the military, and for years I've been frustrated by what I see as a waste of taxpayer dollars on exquisite and untested technology. But I say that from an operational perspective. From a political perspective though, the MIC is a rousing success as a jobs program. Millions and millions of high paying, often times union jobs are a tough thing for any politician to shed. Which is why General Dynamics is still producing tanks the Army doesn't want or need, and Newport News is cranking out ships the Navy doesn't need. It's because it's good for those communities, and without them they would resemble Flint Michigan after the auto industry began to pull out.

A majority of Americans are happy with their healthcare. When you isolate that group that is likely to pay more, they're probably even happier. And they have no real reason to give that up for something that would be more expensive, and in all likelihood, of lower quality. So your challenge is to convince them to make the sacrifice when others would only be seeing benefits.

#171 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 02:43 PM | Reply

"Nice touch at the end, douche"

I feel like this kid needs to master punctuation before he takes a stab at politics. I've always said you can always gain meaningful employment if you can speak in complete sentences...Effete is still working on that skill apparently.

#172 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 02:45 PM | Reply

"You round up any argument in favor of strong social programs to "socialism" despite acknowledging that such programs are possible within the confines of capitalism."

How did I do that?

I feel like I made it pretty clear that capitalism is the only way to provide social programs. Socialism can't provide anything...unless it has capitalist backing. So let me be clear. Socialism, on it's own, provides nothing. if it is able to provide anything, it's because capitalism is funding it.

You're just repeating what I've already stated.

#173 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-12 02:49 PM | Reply

The Question All Democrats Need to Ask Themselves-

Have you stocked up on 5 years worth of Kleenex?

#174 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2020-02-12 03:01 PM | Reply

Seeing the ------------ going on between Bernie detractors and Bernie supporters on several threads today really brings us all the way back around to question that titles this thread. Based on what I am reading, my impression is that every individual is going to answer that question differently. Which I am sure is exactly what right-wingers are counting on.

#175 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-02-12 03:25 PM | Reply

#172 I know I'm getting under your skin when you start critiquing my punctuation. Maybe you should look at the substance of my arguments more. Fella.

#176 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 03:28 PM | Reply

#171 So you agree that our military is a jobs program? Like welfare only with mass death as the product?
I'm not surprised you,re a military man, you seem to have no vision of anything beyond the status quo.
The first thing military training seems to kill is imagination and the ability to think "outside the box".
You show that in spades,bro. All reflexive fealty to things as they are now,no ability to see different situations or ideas that are not currently in place.
In short,no imagination or vision.

#177 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-12 03:38 PM | Reply

"But you're talking about US households."

I am. The CIA World Factbook is talking about US households too.
And these Presidential hopefuls are talking about the US economy.
Maybe someday you will too?

#178 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 05:31 PM | Reply

"And the vast difference between the US and European taxpayers is acceptance of taxes in order to fund programs."

Money must not be fungible to you.

You'd rather pay more in fees, than get better service for lower cost in taxes.

How does that value proposition make sense to you?

#179 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-12 05:34 PM | Reply

You're basing your value on the efficiency of the US government's private-partnerships.

The number of doctor's not accepting government healthcare program money is on the rise.

#180 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-02-13 07:59 AM | Reply

Not only that, but a healthcare system that will be run by Democrat & Republican alternating every 4 to 8 years? Hard pass.

#181 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-02-13 08:03 AM | Reply

"#171 So you agree that our military is a jobs program? Like welfare only with mass death as the product?"

Yeah.

Those tanks coming out of the Lima plant aren't killing anyone, sitting in that parking lot.

"I'm not surprised you,re a military man, you seem to have no vision of anything beyond the status quo."

Not really. You've just not presented anything better than the status quo. But to be honest, I don't think you possess the intellectual capacity to engage in any critical thought beyond the limits of your onw personal beliefs. You're like the left wing version of an evangelical. And it's sorta cute that you fancy yourself as some sort of deep thinker or problem solver.

#182 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-13 01:03 PM | Reply

"Money must not be fungible to you."

So...then why not make the top 1% pay everything and the rest of us can find a way to blow what we otherwise would have spent on taxes?

I mean, I might feel a little bad, but if the 1% were willing to pony up for the rest of us, I'd be down.

But I don't think they would be. Anymore than the bottom 99% would be willing to take on a steep VAT.

"You'd rather pay more in fees, than get better service for lower cost in taxes."

Is that how this formula works? The lower the cost, the better the product?

I would rather have a say in my healthcare, rather than having one of Bernie's appointees speaking on my behalf.

#183 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-13 01:06 PM | Reply

My answer to MODER8's question is yes.

Although after this election, if the Democrats don't do some serious work on changing their Neoliberal, Wall Street crony-capitalist establishment philosophy, I may never vote Dem at the national level again.

#184 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2020-02-13 01:24 PM | Reply

"Although after this election, if the Democrats don't do some serious work on changing their Neoliberal, Wall Street crony-capitalist establishment philosophy, I may never vote Dem at the national level again."

Y'know, it seems like a lot of people feel the same as you do. Maybe you could just start your own Democratic Socialist party. Granted, most of you are poor and would lack the resources to do much more than throw a pot brownie bake sale...but at least you could look in the mirror and not see a sellout.

At the same time, what happens to the vast majority of Democrats who don't identify as Democratic Socialists. You've sent them straight into the arms of the GOP. Or maybe if they have nothing to lose, they just don't vote.

#185 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-13 01:54 PM | Reply

"start your own Democratic Socialist party. Granted, most of you are poor and would lack the resources"

^
Excellent explanation of why Deplorables want money in politics:
So the poor have no voice.
Well said, MadBomber.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-13 01:58 PM | Reply

"So the poor have no voice."

Yeah. It would be unfortunate if 51% of the population were unable to vote themselves into the bank accounts of 100% of the population.

#187 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-02-13 03:22 PM | Reply

Progressive tax brackets in a (crony) capitalist economic system that naturally flows money upwards is no vice.

It's as American as FDR and apple pie.

#188 | Posted by Corky at 2020-02-13 03:25 PM | Reply

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