Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, February 19, 2020

In the story by Franz Kafka, "In the Penal Colony," an officer was standing next to a lethal punishing machine. When asked about his qualifications, he explained simply, "My guiding principle is this: Guilt is never to be doubted." It seems many in Washington can claim the same Kafkaesque qualification this week when it comes to Attorney General William Barr. [snip]

What is most astonishing about the calls for impeachment, incarceration, and disbarment is that they ignore any countervailing information other than raw political manipulation of the Justice Department. Even more importantly, they ignore even the slightest possibility that the Justice Department may have done the right thing for the right reason.

Advertisement

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

This is a pretty balanced take. He (Turley) fully acknowledges the concerns expressed regarding Barr's intervention of the Stone sentencing recommendation. This part of his analysis really puts things into perspective:

(Just for the record, also ignored in the coverage is how the Justice Department under Barr allowed the Russia investigations to proceed unimpeded despite continual tweets by the president, prosecuted and convicted various Trump associates, including Stone, over objections by the president, declined to charge either James Comey or Andrew McCabe despite demands by the president, continued to investigate Trump figures and related businesses, and has not only prosecuted but expanded the investigation of close associates of Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani.)

And also, this:

It is not unprecedented for Main Justice to overrule local prosecutors. For example, in 2008 when President Obama was first running for the White House, prosecutors wanted to bring charges against Black Panthers who stood in front of polling places brandishing weapons. Attorney General Eric Holder and the Justice Department overruled them, despite a rather widespread view that the men were trying to intimidate voters. There were no calls to impeach or incarcerate Holder, who was widely viewed as one of the most political attorney generals in modern history.

This can't be overstated. In no way did Barr interfere with the case against Stone. He intervened because he felt (correctly IMO) that the sentencing recommendation was way too harsh. So, Holder rips a case away from prosecutors and receives loud applause, Barr lets a political case go unfettered and intervenes to make a change to the sentencing guidelines (and they are just guidelines, the judge, an Obama appointee, has the final say) and his critics go ballistic.

#1 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 08:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"they ignore any countervailing information other than raw political manipulation of the Justice Department."

Posted by JeffJ at 08:42 AM | 1 COMMENT | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

Because raw political manipulation is the issue, JEFF.

I'll ask you again; what attracts you to authoritarianism?

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:32 AM | Reply

In no way did Barr interfere with the case against Stone.

#1 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19

Simply bizarre.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:33 AM | Reply

What's the appeal of a "strong man", JEFF? And why in hell do you think Barr and Trump are?

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:35 AM | Reply

Simply bizarre.

#3 | POSTED BY ZED

Please point to where he interfered with the prosecution of Stone.

He changed the sentencing guidelines, which were overly harsh. That's it.

#5 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 09:36 AM | Reply

Please point to where he interfered with the prosecution of Stone.

#5 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19

He's interfering now, JEFF.

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:40 AM | Reply

So you've found a tree to focus on, JEFF. The forest is that Trump and Barr are looking out for their friends.

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:40 AM | Reply

I know that you know this.

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:41 AM | Reply

There's some merit to the idea that Trumpites support people like Barr out of simple hate and ignorance.

But you're not a stupid man, JEFF. What gives?

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:44 AM | Reply

Did you read the embedded piece, Zed? It's a pretty short read and it's written by a law professor who Democrats have called to testify before congress, including as recently as to give his take on their impending contempt of congress vote for Barr - which is how they voted. Of course, in order to avoid a contempt vote Barr would have to have broken the law in order to comply with their demands. And you prattle about authoritarianism...."Either you break the law or we are going to hold you in contempt!"

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 09:45 AM | Reply

Advertisement

Advertisement

What gives?

#9 | POSTED BY ZED

Read post #1.

#11 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 09:45 AM | Reply

Read post #1.

#11 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02

That tells me nothing I'm curious about or want to know.

#12 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:48 AM | Reply

Barr would have to have broken the law in order to comply with their demands

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at

If Barr respected the law in all cases no one would have a problem with him, would they?

#13 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:49 AM | Reply

The Size of Bill Barr's Cover-Up Hints at the Magnitude of What He's Covering Up

Interim US Attorneys oversee investigations implicating Trump's actions

Geoffrey Berman, Southern District of New York: For the most part, Berman seems to have operated independently after his appointment as US Attorney for SDNY, but there are recent concerns that investigations implicating Trump have been stymied:

Hush payments: After getting Michael Cohen to plead guilty to covering up Trump's past sex partners during the election and obtaining testimony from National Enquirer, the investigation closed with no further charges on or before July 17, 2019.

Ukrainian grifters: There are conflicting stories about the scope of the investigation into Ukrainian grifters Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, particularly with regards to how seriously SDNY is considering charges against Rudy Giuliani. WaPo reported steps taken implicating Rudy's activities on February 14, 2020. But Parnas has insinuated that his sudden arrest on October 9 was an attempt to keep him silent; Barr visited SDNY that day and subsequently visited Rupert Murdoch at his home. SDNY showed unusual concern for the privacy of third parties as Parnas tried to share more information with the House Intelligence Committee. And Bill Barr has not recused in spite of a clear conflict and a request from Parnas.

Halkbank: Barr tried to pre-empt an indictment of Turkey's Halkbank with a settlement.
Timothy Shea, District of Columbia: While Berman worked for several years without any show of corruption, that's not true of Timothy Shea, a trusted Barr aide. The very first day he started work " having been installed by Barr with just a day's notice " he started questioning the guidelines sentence of Roger Stone, who has promised to remain silent about details of Trump's involvement in his efforts to optimize the release of emails stolen by Russian. Then, Shea worked with Bill Barr to reverse the guidelines sentence recommended by career prosecutors. In addition, Shea's appointment coincided with the start of a "review" of other prosecutions and investigations of Trump associates in DC including, but not limited to, Mike Flynn and Erik Prince.

DOJ prevents full investigation of Ukraine complaint
Barr and his DOJ engaged in multiple acts of obstruction of the Ukraine complaint. First, Barr did not recuse from a complaint mentioning him by name. Then (knowing that Barr was personally implicated), DOJ did not conduct a full assessment of the whistleblower complaint, which would have identified a tie to the SDNY investigation of Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. Then OLC invented an excuse not to share whistleblower complaint with Congress, which resulted in a significant delay and almost led Ukraine to make concessions to obtain aid. Then, DOJ did not share whistleblower complaint with FEC as required by Memorandum of Notification. Finally, DOJ made a comment claiming Trump was exonerated, precisely the abuse " speaking about ongoing investigations " that Jim Comey got fired for.


www.emptywheel.net

#14 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-02-19 09:50 AM | Reply

And you prattle about authoritarianism

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 09:45 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

I fear dictatorship. William Barr is an instrument towards that, and sometimes so are you.

#15 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dictators make and keep lists, JEFF. Lists of people. We know that Trump does this an that the list just gets longer. In my personal opinion, understanding Trump's pathology, there is NO person too small not to make that list if he opposes Trump.

I expect to be on it eventually, if I am not now. GOATMAN will turn me in.

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 09:52 AM | Reply

"I expect to be on it eventually, if I am not now. GOATMAN will turn me in.

POSTED BY ZED "

???

For what? Nutmeg abuse?

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your heart it will keep
It starts when you're always afraid'
Step out line, the man comes and takes you away"

#17 | Posted by goatman at 2020-02-19 09:56 AM | Reply

#17 | Posted by goatman at

You're a bit of a narc, GOAT.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 10:00 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

JEFF presents her today talking about lack of justice towards Stone, a day when Donald Trump is selling pardons.

Forgive me, but it makes my stomach churn.

#19 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 10:01 AM | Reply

JEFF presents here today talking about lack of justice towards Stone, a day when Donald Trump is selling pardons.

Forgive me, but it makes my stomach churn.

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 10:02 AM | Reply

You're forgiven.

You're forgiven.

#21 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 10:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Turley is shameless hack. Just another Dershowitz.
Apologists for authoritarianism.
They both make me want to SPEW.

#22 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Turley is shameless hack.

He's remained admirably consistent in his legal outlook. He keeps his personal politics checked at the door when he provides legal analysis. Lefties can't stand consistent standards.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 10:50 AM | Reply

Lefties can't stand consistent standards.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 10:50 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

Tut-tut, JEFF. A foolish consistency is the hallmark of fascist minds.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 11:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Turley is shameless hack.

Hell hath no fury like a Dem scorned...

The Left loved Prof. Turley until he started telling them they were wrong and further compounded that "error" by being 100% correct.

#25 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 11:09 AM | Reply

... they ignore even the slightest possibility that the Justice Department may have done the right thing for the right reason. ...

I don't ignore that aspect.

I take it into account as I form my opinion.

I don't let any single thing or aspect mold my entire opinion, I look at the whole and form my opinion.

#26 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-02-19 11:22 AM | Reply

In no way did Barr interfere with the case against Stone.

Except when it came to handing out the sentence. Then it was nothing but interfere, interfere, interfere...

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 11:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My favorite is Jeff's defense for Stone.

"Stone is too old to serve his sentence. Besides, it's only his first violation! Wahhhh!"

Meanwhile, people that old are getting arrested for less and sentenced for more, yet Jeff doesn't make a peep.

Jeff, you a partisan shill. A cultist.

Are you aware? Or do you fool yourself into believing yourself to be the norm?

#28 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 11:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2


Except when it came to handing out the sentence. Then it was nothing but interfere, interfere, interfere...
#27 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK


In no way did Barr interfere with the case against Stone.
#1 | Posted by JeffJ

He interfered, but the reason for the interference was legitimate. The jury was corrupted, and the sentencing was over the top.

"The critics have shown the very same disregard for the facts, the merits, and the process that they ascribe to Barr." ~ Turley.

#29 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2020-02-19 11:38 AM | Reply

I'm not "the left". I am one individual who is trying to make sense of the schittstorm that is american political life.

We have seen too many knee jerk Generalities about both left and right lately. I hope some day people will see Trump as the curse he has been on our society since he was elected. But I know many other individuals who see him as a good man and a patriot.
One of my best friends is a rabid Trump partisan. Since Trump was impeached,that friendship has foundered, perhaps forever. This makes my loathing of trump and all things trumpie,VERY personal.
A man that I had a great friendship with now sees me as an ignorant and unjust partisan
who wants to destroy his great idol.

I likewise, see him as a FOOL, someone duped by a cheap carnival Barker. A man with no taste,no class,nothing but his own vanity and corruption.

This break between us is probably permanent and has caused me to shed bitter tears.

I hope that my experience with Trumpism is not all America's in microcosm.

But in my heart I know that it is.

#30 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 11:42 AM | Reply

I'm not "the left".

Your (relatively limited) posting history says otherwise.

One of my best friends is a rabid Trump partisan. Since Trump was impeached,that friendship has foundered, perhaps forever.

Let me guess, you were rabidly vocal about Trump's impeachment.

A man that I had a great friendship with now sees me as an ignorant and unjust partisan...I likewise, see him as a FOOL

Just trying to keep score here, you were vocal about Trump's impeachment, called your best friend a "FOOL" and he thinks you are a "ignorant and unjust partisan."

This break between us is probably permanent and has caused me to shed bitter tears.

Have you tried saying you are sorry?

#31 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:00 PM | Reply

He intervened because he felt (correctly IMO)

Based on your extensive legal experience no doubt.

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:11 PM | Reply

#28. I fool myself into believing I'm in the norm.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 12:13 PM | Reply

He changed the sentencing guidelines, which were overly harsh. That's it.

#5 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL for a high profile case that involves multiple felonies committed by a friend and advisor of the POTUS.

That you so easily shrug off obvious tin pot dictator style corruption is pathetic.

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:15 PM | Reply

In no way did Barr interfere with the case against Stone.
#1 | Posted by JeffJ

He interfered, but the reason for the interference was legitimate.
#29 | POSTED BY MATTRESS

Oh look. It's the right's favorite game.

Deny something happened, then admit it did happen but pretend it doesn't matter. Or that it's somehow appropriate.

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 12:16 PM | Reply

Jpw,
Tell us about your legal background.

#36 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-19 12:17 PM | Reply

Lefties can't stand consistent standards.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL oh God. Spare us.

#37 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Tell us about your legal background.

#36 | Posted by 101Chairborne

I'm not the one spewing opinions about the validity of applying sentencing guidelines nor supporting undercutting them in specific cases that are high profile and loaded with political connections and implications.

Anything else to whine about?

#38 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:22 PM | Reply

Hell hath no fury like a Dem scorned...

Not true. That comes in a distant second to whiny, poor poor victimized righties and their ever longer list of "RINOs".

#39 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:23 PM | Reply

-- Tell us about your legal background.

He's an expert on lab mice rights.

#40 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-02-19 12:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

^ Ohhh noooooo he ditn't.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Jpw
You opine on legal matters all the time.
You don't need a law degree to do it but Jeff does?
You're a silly ----.

#42 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-19 12:26 PM | Reply

What happened to JPw? It can't just be the booze.
He's gone full ------. It's like he's snoofy's ass baby.

#43 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-19 12:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#39

"I know you are but what am I..."

-Rage spiraling lab technicians

#44 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:28 PM | Reply

#31 I'm not sorry,that's the problem. Our worldviews are so different that the breach is unbridgeable.
My experience with him tells me that Trumpism may lead to"brother slaying brother" in America,for God's sake.
Reflect on that,and take care.

#45 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 12:28 PM | Reply

You opine on legal matters all the time.
You don't need a law degree to do it but Jeff does?
You're a silly ----.

#42 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Link or stink.

I rarely, if ever, comment on the legitimacy or correctness of a court ruling ect because I understand enough to know I don't know enough.

Which is why I would think that the use of normal sentencing guidelines that would be used for any other person in this situation would be...normal.

And why the AG intervening to undercut that in this particularly loaded case would be...abnormal.

So again, link or stink. Silly ----.

#46 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:32 PM | Reply

I'm not sorry,that's the problem. Our worldviews are so different that the breach is unbridgeable.

So those bitter tears are 100% of your making...sorry to hear that.

Maybe when you calm down you can fix it.

#47 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:32 PM | Reply

"I know you are but what am I..."

Just doing you a favor and pointing out your utter lack of awareness.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:32 PM | Reply

-Rage spiraling lab technicians

#44 | Posted by Rapedeflectorocenter

#49 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:33 PM | Reply

Hey stupid, this very thread is the only link you need.
Or you can go to one of the 1,000 impeachment threads you jizzed all over.

You're entering serious speed at territory.

The number of times RightO has drug his nuts over your face on legal issues must have given you a TBI.

#50 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-19 12:37 PM | Reply

#48

It's "cute" how you are now stealing Jeff's retort's.

#51 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:40 PM | Reply

Hey stupid, this very thread is the only link you need.

LOL so thinking that the prosecutors and judge following sentencing guidelines as they normally do is opining and requiring a law degree.

---- you're stupid. Like 'I still think it's cool to crush my Natty Light can on my forehead' type stupid.

Or you can go to one of the 1,000 impeachment threads you jizzed all over.

Arguing the merits of the information isn't a legal opinion.

You're just flailing now.

The number of times RightO has drug his nuts over your face on legal issues must have given you a TBI.

#50 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Then surely you'll have no trouble linking one instead of claiming it over and over without evidence.

Because, again, I don't make concrete statements about legal proceedings because I know my limits.

If all you have to say is "YEAH YOU DOES!" in response just save it.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:42 PM | Reply

I think this is what Barr/Trump are hoping the Durham (and other) investigation(s) will "allow" them to do:

Trump calls for all cases stemming from Mueller probe to be 'thrown out'

www.reuters.com

#53 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-02-19 12:42 PM | Reply

It's "cute" how you are now stealing Jeff's retort's.

#51 | Posted by Rightocenter

He used that one?

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:43 PM | Reply

# 47 I'm perfectly calm. I see very clearly that there is no way to bridge this unless one of us backs down. I just don't see either of us doing that.
That is the tragedy of all this. It's like 1859 in Virginia, conflict is coming,it can't be stopped unless SOMEONE admits to being wrong. It won't be me,I'm not wrong.
It won't be him. He sincerely believes that he is NOT WRONG as well.
This is recipe for heartbreak,on a cosmic level. My greatest fear is that internecine violence will become widespead here in America over this one pathetic. Individual.

#55 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 12:46 PM | Reply

#49

LMAO, telling that I absolutely destroy you on the Trump DNA thread and you now can only resort to Boydlike "rape deflection" name calling.

BTW, I shaved my nuts so that your forehead will not get so irritated next time.

#56 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:46 PM | Reply

#54

On you...many times.

#57 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:47 PM | Reply

#55

OK DRama Queen, have fun with those fantasies.

PS. The bigger person can admit they are wrong.

#58 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 12:48 PM | Reply

LMAO, telling that I absolutely destroy you on the Trump DNA thread and you now can only resort to Boydlike "rape deflection" name calling.

Destroy me?

Self proclaimed victories are always soooo so sweet, aren't they?

BTW, I shaved my nuts so that your forehead will not get so irritated next time.

#56 | Posted by Rightocenter

Sure thing rape deflector.

"But but I said it's always wrong in my sixth post on the thread" LOL

The bigger person can admit they are wrong.

#58 | Posted by Rightocenter

Indeed.

(Still haven't shown where you've supposedly wiped your nuts on my face in a legal thread)

#59 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:55 PM | Reply

On you...many times.

#57 | Posted by Rightocenter

Oh right. My apologies for taking such an original jab that I've never used before. Certainly not on you.

#60 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 12:55 PM | Reply

(Still haven't shown where you've supposedly wiped your nuts on my face in a legal thread)

Actually, it was Chair who made that remark. But, since you asked....

drudge.com

#61 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#58 What makes you so sure they are fantasies? Societies have collapsed into bloodshed many times in human history.Yugoslavia was a relatively stable society for decades before the genocidal internecine wars of the 1990s. Spain likewise before 1936.
Rwanda was also stable for many years before the great bloodletting of 1994.
Can you tell me,really,that it is IMPOSSIBLE for something likewise horrible to happen here?
Are you perfect in your knowledge of the future in a way that no one else is or something?
I'm NOT saying that horrors like these nescessarily will happen here. I'm saying that they COULD happen here.
America is not immune to the greater trends of human behavior and history.
I sincerely pray I am wrong, but I see it as possible here.

#62 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 01:06 PM | Reply

Actually, it was Chair who made that remark. But, since you asked...

He jumped aboard with his shaved nuts comment and "bigger person" snipe.

Figured he had the goods to match his bravado.

You still haven't either despite jumping in to defend your boys.

#63 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 01:07 PM | Reply

Typical Turley.... he admits that an investigation is warranted, then spends the rest of the article whining about the process.

btw, this usually happens because, as in this case, he supported a Fixer like Barr in the first place, and now has to defend that support because, well, because that's what he said originally.

#64 | Posted by Corky at 2020-02-19 01:17 PM | Reply

Hey RoC,

Do you have any actual comments on the topic? You know, like sentencing guidelines, application of guidelines, the normalcy of an AG intervening in a high profile case ect ect.

You are, after all, a lawyer and, along with et_al and Moder8, have the best perspective on this topic.

#65 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 01:23 PM | Reply

If the ---- does ever hit the fan in this country, I will not be on the side of the guy who mocks the disabled, steals from children's charity and brags about sexually assaulting women.

My conscience will be clear.

#66 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-02-19 01:29 PM | Reply

"I will not be on the side of the guy who mocks the disabled, steals from children's charity and brags about sexually assaulting women.
My conscience will be clear."

that's nice, but does any of that matter? IOW, who do you think will have some sort of crisis of conscience over their Trump vote?

#67 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-19 01:32 PM | Reply

who do you think will have some sort of crisis of conscience over their Trump vote?

#67 | Posted by eberly

True.

Sort of a sad thing, no?

#68 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 01:34 PM | Reply

Hey RoC, Do you have any actual comments on the topic? You know, like sentencing guidelines, application of guidelines, the normalcy of an AG intervening in a high profile case ect ect.

I assume that was a rhetorical question.

#69 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 01:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

If they don't have a crisis of conscience over the things I listed, then they have no conscience to have a crisis with.

#70 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-02-19 01:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Can you tell me,really,that it is IMPOSSIBLE for something likewise horrible to happen here?"

You're comparing the United States in 2020 to Rwanda prior to 1994 expect anybody here to believe you aren't a drama queen begging for someone to notice?

I'd accuse you of trolling but I think you're being sincere.

#71 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-19 01:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I assume that was a rhetorical question.

#69 | Posted by JOE

Nope. I actually enjoy it when legal threads are heavily participated in by RoC, et_al ect.

Sorry I left you off the list.

We have lawyers here and it's interesting when the expertise is used to explain stories.

#72 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 01:41 PM | Reply

I think it's obvious ROC rarely if ever posts anything other than "DRama thread of the day," "Dems are hypocrites for (insert false equivalence here)," or "i destroyed (insert poster who probably destroyed him)."

Based on our limited substantive legal interactions, I wouldn't trust his legal judgment any farther than i can throw him. And with my bad back, I shouldn't be throwing anybody.

#73 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 01:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sincere question, and one I'm ashamed I don't know the answer to, but will Stone be afforded an appeal?

#74 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-19 01:46 PM | Reply

We have lawyers here and it's interesting when the expertise is used to explain stories.

#72 | POSTED BY JPW

i agree. I always enjoy legal analyses from the likes of Joe, ROC, Et al, Moder8, Montecore, Sychophant....

#75 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 01:47 PM | Reply

but will Stone be afforded an appeal?

#74 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

He can file, just as anyone can. That doesn't mean he'll be granted an appeal though. The case against him was strong.

#76 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 01:48 PM | Reply

And with my bad back, I shouldn't be throwing anybody.

#73 | POSTED BY JOE

Good Ferris Bueller reference.

#77 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I was hoping someone would catch that.

#78 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 01:50 PM | Reply

That doesn't mean he'll be granted an appeal though. The case against him was strong.
#76 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Wouldn't the "absurdly harsh sentence" justify an appeal?

#79 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-19 01:53 PM | Reply

Wouldn't the "absurdly harsh sentence" justify an appeal?

#79 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

He won't be sentenced until tomorrow. If she goes easy on him he may not even try to appeal.

#80 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 01:54 PM | Reply

Wouldn't the "absurdly harsh sentence" justify an appeal?

#79 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-19 01:53 PM |

But the appeal would fail. That's why Barr's ex post facto meddling.

I mean, face it. Trump and Barr want Stone to get off.

#81 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 01:55 PM | Reply

If she goes easy on him (Stone) he may not even try to appeal.

#80 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 01:54 PM |

That would be the recommended seven years and not the recommended nine.

#82 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 01:56 PM | Reply

Here's what's happening. By getting Barr to intervene, it gives a semblance of legitimacy to Trump's claim that Stone is being treated unfairly (regardless of what the sentence ends up being). When Trump pardons Stone, the alleged (but false) unfair treatment is then treated as old news and settled law, and a legitimate justification for the pardon.

#83 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 02:09 PM | Reply

#71 I am half trolling, but I am also sincere. Do you really believe that because Rwanda is an agricultural society of black Africans and we are a post industrial society of rapidly changing demographics that somehow makes us so
much more advanced than, and "better," then,them.

Racist much, Human beings are human beings. Germany was musically, scientifically, and culturally the most "advanced" society the world had known up until Hitler led them into "Master race intoxication" world war, and mass murder of hated minorities.
To say that something like that could "NEVER" happen here seems kind of stupid to me given these known facts of history.

Maybe you should read a little more about cultural history before spouting absurd"certainties" about what human beings are capable of,dude.

#84 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 02:13 PM | Reply

'Germany was musically, scientifically, and culturally the most "advanced" society the world had known up until...."

Until what? Germany is more advanced than America in many ways. Try to source high quality microscope lenses from anywhere other than German or Japan.

In fact, war fighting leads to a tremendous amount of innovation.

#85 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2020-02-19 02:15 PM | Reply

If she goes easy on him he may not even try to appeal.
#80 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

The question was asked on the presumption that she would go with the prosecutor's suggestion.

Would the 9 year(?) sentence, being currently identified as overly harsh for Stone's crimes, warrant an appeal?

#86 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-19 02:15 PM | Reply

In fact, war fighting leads to a tremendous amount of innovation.
#85 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

So does a space race.

#87 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-02-19 02:19 PM | Reply

-Sort of a sad thing, no?

only if you let it make you sad.

People are capable of feeling regret or guilt all the time. It's a common emotion discussed and accepted in society. People express guilt and regret commonly. Yes, it's repressed often times but eventually folks get around to acknowledging their regret/guilt.

But never, seemingly, with a vote they cast in a presidential election. It's a very short event, and then it's over and there's nothing you can do about your vote once you've voted.

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-19 02:19 PM | Reply

Based on our limited substantive legal interactions, I wouldn't trust his legal judgment any farther than i can throw him.

The limits on our interactions are solely placed by you vehemently disagreeing and then saying "Good bye".

#89 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 02:20 PM | Reply

Huh. I expected "In defense of William Barr" to be followed by something like "he's suffering from a severe brain injury".

they ignore even the slightest possibility that the Justice Department may have done the right thing for the right reason

That's like saying they ignore even the slightest possibility that the world is flat.

#90 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2020-02-19 02:21 PM | Reply

#85 So do you buy into the "Master race" garbage too? Germany may be the most advanced society in history,even unto this day. I have been there more than once,I love the music of the German baroque above all other music by far.
That being said,
I have also been to DACHAU.
The germans are a great people,no doubt,but they are NOT in any way Intrinsically, better than anyone else. There is no Master race. That is stupid,dangerous totally untrue BULLSCHITT.

#91 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 02:26 PM | Reply

-Do you really believe that because Rwanda is an agricultural society of black Africans and we are a post industrial society of rapidly changing demographics that somehow makes us so
much more advanced than, and "better," then,them.

I didn't say anything about "better" or "more advanced". Those are your words, dude.

While I'm no expert on Rwanda, it's a stretch to compare the stability of the USA in 2020 to that of Rwanda of pre-1994.

And you can accuse me of being a racist all you want. Check the archives...you're not the first to lose an argument with me that way. Be my guest and go that route if you want.

you're being a pure 100% drama queen begging for attention.

I'll leave you alone.

#92 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-19 02:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Speaking of Ferris, I'm in Chicago.
MF'er I don't remember paying so many tolls the last time I drove here.

Going to get some Gyro's here shortly. I'm told they do them a little different here.

Jpw,
Listen you stupid ----, if you want Jeff to have a legal background to comment on legal matters then it only makes sense for you to hold yourself to the same standard. No link necessary ------.
I'd say you can't possibly be this dumb, but your posting history says otherwise.

#93 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-19 02:29 PM | Reply

Btw, we are better and more advanced than they are, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging as much.
They still have bones though their noses ffs.

#94 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2020-02-19 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The limits on our interactions are solely placed by you vehemently disagreeing and then saying "Good bye"
#89 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

That's actually not true at all, but your need to lie about it is quite telling.

#95 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 02:38 PM | Reply

2000 years of Western culture, science, arts, literature and Enlightenment values. What in the f--- has Rwanda given the world except tribalist horror stories?

#96 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-02-19 02:40 PM | Reply

#95

*Holds up mirror to Joe's face*

#97 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 02:47 PM | Reply

That would be the recommended seven years and not the recommended nine.

#82 | POSTED BY ZED

That recommendation was yanked.

#98 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 02:50 PM | Reply

You guys are missing my point completely. It's truly astonishing how you don't get my bigger point.

Rwanda is a nation of primative farmers, Germany is the highest peak of human deveolpment. They BOTH descended into war and mass death. The Germans
exceeded the Rwandan death toll 10fold or more. This was because of their greater technology and cultural development.

But both societies became charnal houses of death and widespead destruction.
Germany's "superiority" only made them superior in the body count.
It didn't stop the killing from happening,it only made the Germans more efficient at getting it done.

#99 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 02:52 PM | Reply

Jpw,
Listen you stupid ----, if you want Jeff to have a legal background to comment on legal matters then it only makes sense for you to hold yourself to the same standard. No link necessary ------.
I'd say you can't possibly be this dumb, but your posting history says otherwise.

#93 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Pull my finger LOL oh man hilarious, right? LOL

#100 | Posted by jpw at 2020-02-19 02:56 PM | Reply

That recommendation was yanked.

#98 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 02

Yeah, man. By Bill Barr.

You're more than a little around the bend on this.

#101 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 02:59 PM | Reply

"2000 years of Western culture, science, arts, literature and Enlightenment values."

Western Civilization is only 2000 years old?
The Enlightenet is also 2000 years old?

Ok Boomer.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-02-19 03:00 PM | Reply

I'm not a relegious man but I clearly see that humanity is all cut from one cloth. And that cloth is depraved and self interested.
Original sin is a metaphor, but true as far as it goes. Man is a killer of those he cannot understand or feel kinship with in ALL human societies no matter how primitive or advanced they may be.
This is why I
believe that mankind will ultimately suicide as species. Nature will out. We are all primate killers of the "other" and our technology will not save us it will only make our collective suicide more likely.

#103 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 03:03 PM | Reply

-Rwanda is a nation of primative farmers, Germany is the highest peak of human deveolpment. They BOTH descended into war and mass death. The Germans
exceeded the Rwandan death toll 10fold or more. This was because of their greater technology and cultural development.

Both are absurd comparisons, IMO. We're not the Nazis in any way despite the pathetic attempts to sell that narrative.

If you want to call that naive, then fine.

#104 | Posted by eberly at 2020-02-19 03:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#104 I'm not saying we're Nazis. I'm saying that people have no empathy for others they can't understand,that this is innate in humanity and is possibly a survival trait that evolved to help us live in groups and dominate our local surroundings as a way to help us survive.
It works great at the hunter gatherer level but In advanced societies with nuclear weapons it is a recipe for species suicide.

#105 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-02-19 03:34 PM | Reply

#97 Lol. The bulk of your presence on this site is redefining your interactions with people in an effort to puff yourself up. Must be a sad existence away from the computer. Sorry about that.

#106 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 03:35 PM | Reply

Hey RoC,
Do you have any actual comments on the topic? You know, like sentencing guidelines, application of guidelines, the normalcy of an AG intervening in a high profile case ect ect.

As I thought I made clear in my first post, Prof. Turley gets it right yet again:

"However, the calls for summary judgment ignore three key elements in reaching any conclusion, which are the timing, the merits, and the process."

One thing the pundits and legal mouthpieces screaming for Barr's impeachment conveniently ignore is that it is now clear that the modification decision was made prior to Trump's idiotic and self destructive tweets, so whether Trump and Barr communicated after that is moot.

On the merits, it has also come to light that the reason that the sentencing recommendation was on the high end for a first time offender is that they "stacked" counts against Stone, which is disfavored in most prosecutorial manuals, including the United States Attorney manual. Once those counts are considered separately, then a lower sentence is generally indicated by the guidelines.

Finally, Main Justice is overseen by its own US Attorney, in this case interim USA Tim Shea, who, prior to the submission of the sentencing recommendation, objected to their maximum request which he considered to be too harsh under the circumstances. Once again, the USA manual states that if the US Attorneys office obtains "prime prosecutorial authority" over a criminal matter, then the USA with supervision over that office essentially has the final say.

We shall see what happens tomorrow as I am sure Stone's sentencing hearing is being breathlessly awaited by the press.

#107 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 03:40 PM | Reply

#106

*once again holds a mirror up to Joe's face*

#108 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 03:41 PM | Reply

One thing the pundits and legal mouthpieces screaming for Barr's impeachment conveniently ignore is that it is now clear that the modification decision was made prior to Trump's idiotic and self destructive tweets

#107 | Posted by Rightocenter

Barr knew what the Boss wanted.

#109 | Posted by Zed at 2020-02-19 03:52 PM | Reply

Lefties can't stand consistent standards.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ

You have none that's the problem. AG Holder did something like this you'd have a conniption fit deluxe.

#110 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-02-19 04:01 PM | Reply

#110

He did worse, actually:

"In 2008 when President Obama was first running for the White House, prosecutors wanted to bring charges against Black Panthers who stood in front of polling places brandishing weapons. Attorney General Eric Holder and the Justice Department overruled them, despite a rather widespread view that the men were trying to intimidate voters. There were no calls to impeach or incarcerate Holder, who was widely viewed as one of the most political attorney generals in modern history."

#111 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 04:06 PM | Reply

Black Panthers who stood in front of polling places brandishing weapons.

Black guys with guns? Oh no! Scary!!

White guys with guns? Don't worry!! They're just here to keep the peace.

(IIRC) The Black Panthers were there to prevent voter interference.

But. I understand why a black AG not freaking out over the Black Panthers would concern some. Probably about 30% of the population. Probably about the same % who voted for Trump.

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 04:24 PM | Reply

Natasha Bertrand @NatashaBertrand

Sens. Whitehouse and Feinstein remind that the Inspector General still has an ongoing investigation into Giuliani's contacts with the FBI in 2016...and ask that the IG expand that probe to include his contacts with DOJ

The letter was spearheaded by Feinstein & Whitehouse but is also signed by Sens. Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Dick Durbin, Patrick Leahy, Amy Klobuchar, Chris -----, Richard Blumenthal and Mazie Hirono.

www.whitehouse.senate.gov

#113 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-02-19 04:31 PM | Reply

Since Holder keeps getting brought up....what about the DOJ practice under him of guiding settlement money (like the Volkswagen emissions scandal payout) to left-wing activist groups. That is WAY more corrupt than following an established process here with what Barr did.

#114 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 06:08 PM | Reply

You have none that's the problem. AG Holder did something like this you'd have a conniption fit deluxe.

#110 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

*Holds mirror up to Laura's face*

#115 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 06:09 PM | Reply

#114 Amazing that this lawyers group (headed by partisan leftists and consisting mostly of Democrat donors) had no problem with Holder's corrupt scheme of funneling settlement monies to left-wing activist groups. They didn't get a single signature of protest over that, much less more than a 1000.

#116 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 06:11 PM | Reply

Holder's corrupt scheme of funneling settlement monies to left-wing activist groups.
#116 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Oh, I see.

You're excusing Barr's corruption because "Holder was corrupt too."

Apparently you believe if one person breaks the law, everyone else should be able to as well.

Interesting.

#117 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 06:15 PM | Reply

#117 No. I'm saying that what Barr did here was legitimate and justified.

He compares extremely well against Holder. Extremely well.

#118 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 06:26 PM | Reply

I'm saying that what Barr did here was legitimate and justified.

Isn't it great to have an opinion?

How unfortunate it's 100% based on partisanship.

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 06:29 PM | Reply

Isn't it great to have an opinion?

How unfortunate it's 100% based on partisanship.

#119 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

*Holds mirror up to Clown's face*

#120 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 06:37 PM | Reply

*Holds mirror up to Clown's face*
#120 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Thanks for admitting your opinion is purely partisan and Barr is guilty as fffk.

I appreciate your honesty.

#121 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 06:44 PM | Reply

Actually I admit no such thing.

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 07:02 PM | Reply

Backpedal all you want.

#123 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-02-19 07:06 PM | Reply

Is "holds mirror" the new -------- version of "i know you are but what am i?" It suits them since they worship a guy with a 3rd grade intellect.

#124 | Posted by JOE at 2020-02-19 08:04 PM | Reply

a 3rd grade intellect.

#124 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2020-02-19 08:04 PM

*yet again holds mirror up to Joe's face*

#125 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-02-19 08:25 PM | Reply

#123 I'm not backpedalling at all. I've consistently stated on this thread and others that what Barr did was proper. It only looks bad because of Trump's moronic tweets.

#126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-02-19 08:34 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2020 World Readable

Drudge Retort