Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, March 10, 2020

Oil opened on Monday down roughly 25 percent, the sharpest decline in decades, and broader financial markets fell so precipitously that the circuit breakers put in place during times of volatility tripped, temporarily halting trading.

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First, there is obviously a health crisis " the coronavirus continues to spread. Large swathes of northern Italy are now on lockdown. The number of cases in the U.S. has surged, and could explode in the coming days. Mandatory lockdowns may not be far off. The Trump administration is asleep at the wheel, actively trying to play down the extent of the crisis.

Second, there is a brewing economic crisis. China shut down parts of its economy in January and February. Parts of Europe followed. The U.S. is next.

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The thing is if Trump had been competent and not singularly focused on the economy as his only hope for reelection it probably wouldn't have been such an issue.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2020-03-10 10:37 AM | Reply

Meh. The bank s will work with them on their loans as they did in 2015 when the Saudis started dumping oil. They know there's a future shale oil production.

Oil production is like a tide. It comes in and it goes out. Offshore drilling has faded for the fourth time since it first started in the sixties. But it will come back, as well shale oil production when the Saudis stop dumping oil and curb their production.

#2 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 10:40 AM | Reply

The Saudis and Russians are in a no-win situation. They can choose to dump oil and drive prices down, which hurts their economy. The Saudis need oil to be $85 a barrel in order to balance their national budget.

Yes, their strategy is working well in the short run. They are hurting American shale oil production and offshore drilling. However, they cannot continue to dump oil. They need to start making money. So as I mentioned above, when they curb production, shale oil and offshore drilling will come back to fill the gap. The US obviously has the upper hand in this situation since our economy is far more diversified and not oil dependent as the Saudis, and to a lesser extent the Russians.

Then the Saudis will pull this stunt for the fourth time. Wash, rinse, repeat.

#3 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 10:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Shale's New Reality: Almost All Wells Drilled Now Lose Money
www.bloomberg.com

...America's shale producers already had a profitability problem. It just got a lot worse.

At a stroke, Saudi Arabia and Russia and their battle for market share have made almost all U.S. shale drilling unprofitable. Only five companies in two areas of the country have breakeven costs lower than the current oil price, according to data compiled by Rystad Energy, an Oslo-based consultancy.

Wells drilled by Exxon Mobil Corp., Occidental Petroleum Corp. Chevron Corp. and Crownquest Operating LLC in the Permian Basin, which stretches across West Texas and southeastern New Mexico, can turn profits at $31 a barrel, Rystad's data show. Occidental's wells in the DJ Basin of Colorado are also in the money at that price, which is where oil settled Monday.

But that's not the case for the rest of the shale industry -- more than 100 operators in a dozen fields. For them, drilling new wells will almost certainly mean going into the red....



#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-03-10 10:50 AM | Reply

Domestic production of oil is a national security issue and Trump has the power to enact tariffs to protect that industry from the Saudis dumping oil here to drive our production companies out of business. I'm not exactly a big fan of oil companies but our country needs to maintain energy independence. Funny thing, all the attention has been on Iran while many of us have been screaming about Saudi Arabia being much more hostile towards us.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2020-03-10 11:01 AM | Reply

Danni, we are still energy independent. Just because we are importing cheap oil does not mean we lose our dependency.

If the Saudis stop dumping oil, shale oil and offshore will come back and fill in the gaps. It's not like the '70s when a cessation of imports put the US in a bind.

Besides, your side freaked out over Chinese tariffs which drove prices up for goods. But now you think tariffs are a good thing? Again, Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with you guys.

#6 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 11:13 AM | Reply

Besides, your side freaked out over Chinese tariffs which drove prices up for goods. But now you think tariffs are a good thing? Again, Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with you guys.

#6 | Posted by goatman

Way to jump from generalities to one person back to generalities.

#7 | Posted by jpw at 2020-03-10 11:16 AM | Reply

@#6 ... If the Saudis stop dumping oil, shale oil and offshore will come back and fill in the gaps. ...

The oil in the ground is not going to disappear if we stop using it.

It may take a short while to get the domestic industry running again, but it has been done before, and it can be done again.

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-03-10 11:17 AM | Reply

Way to jump from generalities to one person back to generalities.

#7 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2020-03-10 11:16 AM | FLAG: "

As always, you cannot rebut my point. when that's the case, it's best just to remain silent. when you don't it makes it look like your big brain is shrinking

#9 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 11:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#8 -- Exactly. We have so many capped wells that have been drilled, both terrestrial and offshore. We have an oil reserve for buffer while these wells are being opened because it will, as you say, take a little bit of time to get them into production.

#10 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 11:27 AM | Reply

This could hurt me personally. In a few months I will be able to start dipping into my 401k. But a lot of it and ESPP oil stocks have tanked. But rather than bitch about it, I'm going to take advantage of the very cheap gasoline and wait until the Saudis curb their production.

#11 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 11:35 AM | Reply

--Domestic production of oil is a national security issue

So let's ban fracking, shut down oil wells, outlaw additional on-shore and offshore drilling, etc. Terrific solution from the new green dealers.

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2020-03-10 11:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Danni, we are still energy independent."

BS.

We Americans depend on XOM, BP, etc. for our energy.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 11:57 AM | Reply

"The thing is if Trump had been competent and not singularly focused on the economy as his only hope for reelection it probably wouldn't have been such an issue.

#1 | POSTED BY JPW "

Jesus Christ, the TDS is strong with this one.

No matter on what Trump focused, the Saudis would be dumping oil.

No matter on what Trump focused, the production cost for shale oil extraction would not go down. Employees have to be paid the same. Machinery and maintenance costs are the same. Transportation costs remain the same.

No matter on what Trump focused, the shale oil industry would not be willing to take a loss.

These things have nothing to do with Trump.

Next time TDS strikes, try thinking about baseball or something.

#14 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 12:03 PM | Reply

""The thing is if Trump had been competent and not singularly focused on the economy as his only hope for reelection it probably wouldn't have been such an issue.
#1 | POSTED BY JPW ""

PS: Low gas prices will help him win the election. The general public doesn't care if the shale oil industry is ---- up. They only care what is happening at the gas pump.

#15 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 12:08 PM | Reply

Question: Obviously Putin is out to royally screw us over with this whole oil pricing scheme. Why didn't he do this years ago? What has now changed to make this now a viable tactic?

#16 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-10 12:27 PM | Reply

"Question: Obviously Putin is out to royally screw us over with this whole oil pricing scheme. Why didn't he do this years ago? What has now changed to make this now a viable tactic?

#16 | POSTED BY MODER8 "

Read the article.

#17 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#16 ... Why didn't he do this years ago? ...

Depending upon what you mean by "years ago," you might want to look at how long the shale industry has been around in any great production volume.

If there was no shale oil industry to destroy, why would Putin mount an attack on it.

Additionally, Putin has been firming up the Russian economy so that it is stronger (not a lot, but stronger) than it had been. So Russia can withstand a price war better now than they could have in the past.

#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-03-10 12:52 PM | Reply

As always, you cannot rebut my point. when that's the case, it's best just to remain silent. when you don't it makes it look like your big brain is shrinking

#9 | Posted by goatman

Pointing out absurd generalities IS rebutting the point.

#19 | Posted by jpw at 2020-03-10 01:39 PM | Reply

"Besides, your side freaked out over Chinese tariffs which drove prices up for goods. But now you think tariffs are a good thing? Again, Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with you guys."

Trump's authority to enact tariffs without Congress is for national security purposes only. The things he put tariffs on during the last couple of years had little or nothing to do with national security. Oil is something directly related to national security, protecting our capacity to produce oil is a very important part of our national security. For most Americans right now, we aren't driving that far, higher gas prices will affect most of us very little but could insure the viability of the companies that produce oil for us, may not seem important today but down the road it could be a critical commodity which our country needs to have control of. We simply can't afford to depend on Saudi or Russian oil but if they bankrupt our producers then who is going to produce our needs down the road?

#20 | Posted by danni at 2020-03-10 01:46 PM | Reply

"Pointing out absurd generalities IS rebutting the point.

#19 | POSTED BY JPW "

LOL maybe in your mind. But that's all that matters to you. Reality doesn't.

Here's the post again:

Besides, your side freaked out over Chinese tariffs which drove prices up for goods. But now you think tariffs are a good thing? Again, Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with you guys.

#6 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Nothing general at all. Chinese tariffs. Oil tariffs. But hey, if your lie works for you, run with it. Your ego knows no bounds and will never capitulate.

#21 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 01:57 PM | Reply

"Oil is something directly related to national security...

#20 | POSTED BY DANNI "

And we have plenty of it. We have been a net exporter since November of last year.

"...protecting our capacity to produce oil is a very important part of our national security."

We can still produce oil. Just because we've stopped doesn't mean we can't start doing it again.

"For most Americans right now, we aren't driving that far, higher gas prices will affect most of us very little..."

I guess everytbing you buy is local and delivered to your store by bicycle or something? Sarcasm aside, higher prices of goods and services is one of the first things higher oil prices affect.

"...but could insure the viability of the companies that produce oil for us, may not seem important today but down the road it could be a critical commodity which our country needs to have control of."

Again, Danni, if we need domestic oil down the road, we uncap the wells already drilled. We fire the shale industry back up. We put the offshore drilling rigs back to work. You seem to think that if we buy cheap Saudi oil that we can never use American oil resources again. That is very flawed thinking,

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 02:04 PM | Reply

But that's all that matters to you. Reality doesn't.

But hey, if your lie works for you, run with it. Your ego knows no bounds and will never capitulate.

#21 | Posted by goatman

LOL continue on with your unaware self.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2020-03-10 02:20 PM | Reply

#23

???

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 02:27 PM | Reply

"The general public doesn't care if the shale oil industry is ---- up. They only care what is happening at the gas pump."

They forgot all about coal?

It's only been three years since Trump ran on a platform of saving coal jobs from liberals.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 02:39 PM | Reply

"Oil production is like a tide. It comes in and it goes out."

Sure, provided the tide is controlled by Saudi Arabia, and is not a naturally occurring and readily predictable phenomenon... yeah no.

A better analogy is hem lines. They go up, they go down, nobody can really say where they'll be in five years.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 02:44 PM | Reply

"--Domestic production of oil is a national security issue

So let's ban fracking, shut down oil wells, outlaw additional on-shore and offshore drilling, etc"

Makes no sense.

The government doesn't drill oil.

Our national security is in the hands of the global oil market, and companies like ExxonMobil, BP, etc.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 03:00 PM | Reply

""The general public doesn't care if the shale oil industry is ---- up. They only care what is happening at the gas pump."

They forgot all about coal?
It's only been three years since Trump ran on a platform of saving coal jobs from liberals.
#25 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

We can't get coal at the pump in Texas. Nor is coal processed into gasoline because of the energy it takes, amounts of water it uses, and CO2 produced in the process. I guess things are different in California. Or are you moving goalposts again? Sorry, not taking the bait, snoofy.

Bye, now.

#28 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 03:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Our national security is in the hands of the global oil market, and companies like ExxonMobil, BP, etc.

#27 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

They are heavily regulated by the federal government. All drilling is done on leases the government owns. They have the power to shut down wells and allow them to be drilled.

Our national security is not in the hands of the oil companies. Do you really think that if the government needed oil, and Exxon said "Sorry. We're not selling it to you" that Uncle Sam would just say, "Damn" and do without? Quit being a drama queen.

#29 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 03:22 PM | Reply

"They are heavily regulated by the federal government. All drilling is done on leases the government owns. They have the power to shut down wells and allow them to be drilled."

On this ^.

Your memory is short, snoofy. The government shut own all offshore drilling for weeks after the Macondo spill a few years ago. They would not allow it to resume until each and every rig went through ... well, a lot. Too much to list. But trust me. We did. I was there.

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 03:25 PM | Reply

"They have the power to shut down wells and allow them to be drilled."

Exactly.

We outsourced our national security to multinational conglomerates. We are merely the gatekeepers. The actual security resource belongs to them.

"Do you really think that if the government needed oil, and Exxon said "Sorry. We're not selling it to you"

Sort of.

Exxon would say, "We sell to the highest bidder."

If that bidder is not Uncle Sam, that's Uncle Sam's problem.

And that's why this aspect of our national security is in the hands of multinational corporations.

Thanks for reading and understanding.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 03:30 PM | Reply

"The government shut own all offshore drilling for weeks after the Macondo spill a few years ago"

^
More bull, from the top bull -------.

That was not a national security action.

That was an environmental protection action and a workplace safety action.

"The six month moratorium on deepwater drilling will provide time to implement new safety requirements and to allow the Presidential Commission to complete its work... Deepwater production from the Gulf of Mexico will continue subject to close oversight and safety requirements, but deepwater drilling operations must safely come to a halt. With the BP oil spill still growing in the Gulf, and investigations and reviews still underway, a six month pause in drilling is needed, appropriate, and prudent."

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 03:34 PM | Reply

--Domestic production of oil is a national security issue

So let's nationalize fracking, nationalize oil wells, nationalize additional on-shore and offshore drilling, etc. Terrific solution from Norway.

^
Fixed that for ya.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 03:37 PM | Reply

Okay Snoopy. Go ahead and believe that Exxon has rains on the National security of this country. It's the most idiotic thing I've heard in my life.

So you are saying the oil companies obey the government when it comes to drilling, but for something as important as national security they trump the government. Lol

if Exxon was in charge they would have continued drilling when the government told them to stop. If they were in charge they would refuse to buy the leases the government owns. If they were in charge the government would be unable to pull their corporate license and prevent them from operating.

You really need to stay away from the conspiracy websites.

The US government has power over all corporations in this country, and that includes the oil companies. If I'm wrong please provide citation from a credible source that indicates national security is in the hands of the oil companies as you hilariously claim.

#34 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 03:44 PM | Reply

Fixed that for ya.
#33 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-03-10 03:37 PM | FLAG: "

The grasping at straws retort.

#35 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 03:47 PM | Reply

And Trump was so gleeful when he was slobbering all over himself while talking about how great it was going to be if the price of oil stayed at it's new low price.

OCU

#36 | Posted by OCUser at 2020-03-10 05:26 PM | Reply

"Go ahead and believe that Exxon has rains on the National security of this country."

If you believe oil is vital to our national security, then the Saudis have the firmest hand on our national security.
Because they control the price.
And we buy and sell at the price they choose for us.
From multinational companies.

"American oil" doesn't exist.
It's Exxon, BP, etc's oil.
We let them dig it out for a tiny fraction of what it's worth.

It's probably the largest corporate welfare program in this nation's history, in terms of how much it's cost us.
And you love it, simply because it buttered your bread.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 05:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you believe oil is vital to our national security, then the Saudis have the firmest hand on our national security.

POSTED BY SNOOFY"

The US energy independent.

You're trying way too hard, Snoofy. It's not the '70s anymore.

#38 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 06:34 PM | Reply

"The US energy independent."

In what way are we independent, when we have to buy it back from Exxon?

We're dependent on Exxon.

We Americans don't have any oil of our own, save what we buy. From Exxon, and the rest.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-10 06:40 PM | Reply

#39 . Not only do I have to pay for my gas, I have to pay for my groceries too. Unbelievable, isn't it?

#40 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 06:52 PM | Reply

#22 ,"and we have plenty of it".
Wrong, and dumb, we are squeezing the last gasps from an almost empty sponge. That's what Fracking is. The Saudis have plenty. They don't need to frack at all to get their oil.
We should be hoarding our oil and buying theirs to maintain our reserves in case of a major war.
In the event of a prolonged war we will need that oil far more than for exports and domestic consumption now.

#41 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-03-10 07:08 PM | Reply

Capitalists would react to 50% shale oil bankruptcy as an asset reallocation as the market intended.

Trump is proposing welfare for billionaires, in other words Fascism.

#42 | Posted by bored at 2020-03-10 07:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Cronyism and market based capitalism are not the same thing, Bored. If anything you unwittingly made an argument in favor of decentralization and federalism.

Pretty sure that wasn't your intent.

#43 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-03-10 07:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

F**kin' A Skippy!!

#44 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-03-10 07:58 PM | Reply

Nationalize all oil reserves and production on federal lands. No extraction. This serves two purposes. One,it saves the resource,with Saudi oil so cheap,we would be foolish to pump or frack.our own at a loss.
Two,it protects the environment,this is really a no brainer if your pocket book us not on the line.

#45 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-03-10 08:05 PM | Reply

#45 No need to nationalize anything. US citizens own the oil, which is now worth little at today's prices.

#46 | Posted by bored at 2020-03-10 08:23 PM | Reply

#43 I know. Cronyism is when government tax dollars are given to the favored few like farmers, frakers, hotels, airlines and cruise lines. None are too big to fail. Nothing is helping small farmers, so let the market choose the winners.

#47 | Posted by bored at 2020-03-10 09:07 PM | Reply

Shale isn't going instinct. The banks will work with them. But wait a minute or two. ---- is about to get real.

#48 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2020-03-10 09:41 PM | Reply

Better shift your investments to cash.

#49 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2020-03-10 09:42 PM | Reply

"The banks will work with them.
#48 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS "

Yep. I echoed that sentiment in another thread. Banks know there is a future in shale oil. Ten years ago, they would not have been so lucky. It was an emerging technology, but now it has proven itself. And there's a lot of ---- shale out there,

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 09:46 PM | Reply

"US citizens own the oil...
#46 | POSTED BY BORED "

Not according to snoofy.

#51 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-10 09:47 PM | Reply

Strategic Oil, Reserve, a vital necessity In the 21st century. More please.

#52 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-03-10 11:29 PM | Reply

"Cronyism and market based capitalism are not the same thing, Bored"

This is like when Clownsahck says the USSR wasn't real Communism, JeffJ.
Every successful Capitalist and the failed ones too have cronies.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-11 12:27 AM | Reply

"US citizens own the oil...
#46 | POSTED BY BORED "
Not according to snoofy.
#51 | POSTED BY GOATMAN"

^
America owns the mineral rights.
We don't own any tangible oil.
The oil only becomes a tangible marketable commodity once we lease the mineral rights to the private sector, and the private sector drills it out, at which point the oil belongs to the private sector.

Bored gets it; not quite sure how a guy who worked on oil rigs can't figure it out! :)

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-11 12:30 AM | Reply

"America owns the mineral rights.
We don't own any tangible oil.
The oil only becomes a tangible marketable commodity once we lease the mineral rights to the private sector, and the private sector drills it out, at which point the oil belongs to the private sector.
Bored gets it; not quite sure how a guy who worked on oil rigs can't figure it out! :)
POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Well, I have it figured out. I never said what you are implying I did.

I guess you also think that an apartment owner no longer owns the apartments since he leases them out. Also, the oil leasing contracts with the oil companies give Uncle Sam many more rights to the oil in play than you are apparently unaware of.

#55 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-11 12:33 AM | Reply

"I guess you also think that an apartment owner no longer owns the apartments since he leases them out."

The users of apartment leases don't strip the apartments of their contents and convert into energy or plastic, or otherwise dispose of it.
The users of oil leases extract the oil, at which point, the extracted oil belongs to them.

Just.
Stop.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-11 12:35 AM | Reply

"The users of oil leases extract the oil, at which point, the extracted oil belongs to them.
#56 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

It belongs to them if Uncle Sam allows them to have it.

#57 | Posted by goatman at 2020-03-11 12:38 AM | Reply

#41
We may not be as close to running out as is so,etimes stated.

www.forbes.com

#58 | Posted by Charliecharles at 2020-03-11 01:24 AM | Reply

America owns the mineral rights.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on who owns the mineral estate which is severable from the surface estate. On federal lands the rights are owned by the American populous. In 2018 that amounted to about "8 percent of all oil, 9 percent of all natural gas, and 6 percent of all natural gas liquids produced in the United States." The rest of it is privately owned and the owner may or may not be American absent some statutory restriction on such ownership. That production "is split about half between the U.S. Treasury and the states where development occurred. The amount of annual revenue that Federal mineral development provides to the U.S. Treasury is second only to that provided by the Internal Revenue Service." www.blm.gov

We(sic) don't own any tangible oil.

Never heard of an in kind royalty.

#59 | Posted by et_al at 2020-03-11 03:18 AM | Reply

The users of apartment leases don't strip the apartments of their contents
#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-11 12:35 AM | Reply | Flag

You've never been a landlord then.

I've had a POS take the drain traps off and turn the water on and leave after opening bags of topsoil in every room and smearing dirty diapers on the walls because I dared ask them to pay their rent.

#60 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-03-11 06:56 AM | Reply

I have a friend who is a landlord that is going through hell much like you describe Nixon. Personally, I don't ever want to be a landlord.

#61 | Posted by danni at 2020-03-11 10:16 AM | Reply

#60 -- I had a tenant dump a bag of tile mortar in a basement toilet after they had been served an eviction, and they had allowed their kids to paint the entire downstairs they way they wanted. I have never seen so much purple and black paint in my life. It was extremely difficult to cover. We were not the property owners, but since he lives out of state we were property managers for several homes. It was just too much work and I will never own a rental because of the experiences over those 3 years. The damage that people carelessly inflict on a home is mind boggling.

#62 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2020-03-11 10:46 AM | Reply

Leave it in the ground,it will be worth far more later. Believe it. It's like cutting old growth when you don't have to,at a loss,no less.
Stupid to the limit. Trump's America, hallelujah,hallelujah, the waste goes stumblin'on.

#63 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-03-11 01:12 PM | Reply

Oh thank heaven for chapter eleven. Generally when drilling firms see a big drop in the price of crude, they shut down and "go to bed". Lay off most of their workers, and negotiate a payment plan with their creditors. I doubt the Saudis and the Russians will play this game of chicken for long. It could sink both economies.

#64 | Posted by docnjo at 2020-03-11 08:34 PM | Reply

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