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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, March 27, 2020

But immigrant rights advocates say leaving this group out of the $2 trillion plan isn't merely a matter of dollars and cents, and it isn't something that only affects undocumented workers and their families. It's a dangerous decision, they argue, that puts the whole country's health at risk as the novel coronavirus spreads. Critics counter that it's not the US government's place to bankroll someone who broke the law, and that as unemployment skyrockets, American workers should come first

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Wow. This is a tough one. A person is in this country illegally. A person has a job within this country that legally they are not entitled to. And the legal/moral question arises, do we send them bail-out checks like we do pretty much every person who is living and working legally.

I know for right wingers this question is a no-brainer.

But even those of us who are sympathetic to the plight of undocumented workers this is a tough one. They came here to make a better life for themselves and their family. But it aint working out so great right now. Maybe they should go home. Maybe it is time for economic undocumented immigrants to go back to their country of origin if they are unable to financially survive here?

(I can't believe I am suggesting that.)

#1 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-27 03:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

(I can't believe I am suggesting that.)

But it's the most logical and reasonable choice.

#2 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2020-03-27 03:18 PM | Reply

No checks for undocumented workers?
Looks like there's going to be food shortages after all!

So Much Winning.
#MAGA

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-27 03:20 PM | Reply

And what happens as our hospitals become overwhelmed? Limiting health services to only those people in this country legally? Scary slippery slope. Not sure I want to go down it.

#4 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-27 03:35 PM | Reply

During the Great Recession, a lot of undocumented immigrants did go home as the jobs dried up.

#5 | Posted by rcade at 2020-03-27 03:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Are we seeing a similar phenomena now? I'd love to see the numbers.

#6 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-27 03:59 PM | Reply

"Limiting health services to only those people in this country legally?"

^
The ones who cry "Death Panels!" already support that.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-27 04:10 PM | Reply

While we argue the logic of not paying them, there's also a cost.

If there are 10 million undocumented immigrants here supported by undocumented immigrants who have jobs, giving those newly unemployed workers no help causes the same kinds of effects of giving American citizens no help. If the U.S. is helping the latter because we want more stability in the economy and we don't want to see people lose their residences and be scrambling to find someplace else (and not social isolating), the same logic could apply to the former for the same reasons.

#8 | Posted by rcade at 2020-03-27 04:17 PM | Reply

Yeah but I suspect most Americans do not believing the government should be sending out money to stabilize the macro-economy so much as we believe that our fellow Americans are in urgent need of help and we want to pull together to help get through this health crisis. I realize it may be parsing details to say 'let's help our people', and 'let's help our economy'. But the only reason most Americans support the pay-outs is because we are worried about our neighbors and our families. We are looking to be charitable to our own communities, - not a bunch of people who are perceived as being here illegally. It is complicated.

#9 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-27 04:23 PM | Reply

Like it or not they are a part of our capitalist economic engine so yes they deserve a stimulus check. We tacitly support them being here when we demand the lowest priced goods and services that they provide for us. As far as turning them away at hospitals. You can't do that either. One they are entitled to be treated the same like everyone else and secondly. This disease doesn't discriminate. You HAVE to treat them so it doesn't spread to others.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-03-27 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2


Companies in the United States have built an economy reliant upon the labor of illegal immigrants.

Unless and until that aspect of the immigration problem is resolved, immigration - illegal or legal - will always be a problem for us.

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-03-27 09:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#10 ... Like it or not they are a part of our capitalist economic engine so yes they deserve a stimulus check. We tacitly support them being here when we demand the lowest priced goods and services that they provide for us. ...

One could also make the argument that they accept the job offers knowing that they will be treating as second-class people. (rightly or wrongly).

#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-03-27 09:42 PM | Reply

Both #10 and #12

Valid points.

A big factor would be how many are going to be interested in giving their information to the government knowing they are illegal. Having a big list of all the undocumented folks who applied for stimulus would, if not immediately, eventually lead to a lot of deportations.

One concept, let them apply for stimulus checks but take down the name of the employer who hired them and then fine the employer the amount of the stimulus check.

#13 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-03-27 09:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Having a big list of all the undocumented folks who applied for stimulus would, if not immediately, eventually lead to a lot of deportations.

#13 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Don't give Stephen Miller any more ideas than you already have to.

OCU

#14 | Posted by OCUser at 2020-03-27 10:08 PM | Reply

If they decide to go home because there's no work, won't they take the virus with them?

#15 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-03-27 10:11 PM | Reply

@#13 One concept, let them apply for stimulus checks but take down the name of the employer who hired them and then fine the employer the amount of the stimulus check.

The Trump administration has shown they seem to prefer avoiding ~going after~ employers because, well, because.

The immigration problem is a high-level problem.

It needs to be solved at the high level.

So far all we have been doing is trying to change the decor of the room (~I think the window treatment should be blue~), while there is a big problem with termites and floor joists.


#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-03-27 10:15 PM | Reply

"But the only reason most Americans support the pay-outs is because we are worried about our neighbors and our families."

No way, Moder8.
Most Americans just want to keep a roof over their heads and the lights on.
You navigate life in a protective bubble of wealth.
Aren't you a Public Defender? Got any rich clients?

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 12:13 AM | Reply

Yeah. That's me. The billionaire. Life in a protective bubble of wealth. I'm posting from my yacht off the coast of Santorini at this very moment.

Sorry, I navigate among the indigent and those who dedicate their lives to assisting them.

#18 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-28 01:27 AM | Reply

No doubt.
Just saying, most people aren't looking to give their $1200 to their neighbors.
It's for their landlord.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 01:42 AM | Reply

I somewhat disagree. I think most people are looking out for their neighbors. IMO they are both the silent majority and the moral majority.

#20 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-28 02:13 AM | Reply

"I think most people are looking out for their neighbors."

Not saying they're not.
We're talking past each other.
What I'm saying is, how many landlords and banks do you think are going to let rents and mortgages slide for the next month or 18?

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 02:16 AM | Reply

I think it gets more complex than that when the suffering is on a national scale such that only action by State and Federal governments will make a difference. I suspect many States will be enacting laws preventing banks from foreclosing and maybe landlords from evicting during this time of crisis. That is not the kind of thing people take on at the individual level.

#22 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-28 02:19 AM | Reply

"many States will be enacting laws"

Here's my guess:
All Blue and Some Red.
States that expanded Medicare will also try to protect their residents financially.
States that didn't, won't.

And Trump will provide more relief to Red states than Blue states.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 02:25 AM | Reply

Yeah. That sounds like a pretty likely scenario. Trump is such a piece of ----.

#24 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-03-28 02:26 AM | Reply

I think turning anybody away from a hospital should be a crime... what is the point of society self quarantining if we leave a section of the population infected without treatment?

Cutting them checks is harder to justify, but the argument has merit. If the stimulus was intended to get people to keep spending and help keep them from collapse then why leave illegal immigrants out...spite?

#25 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2020-03-28 06:27 AM | Reply

If the stimulus was intended to get people to keep spending

Most of the illegal folks I have ever known send the vast majority of their income back to central/south america so giving them stimulus checks would really be supporting those economies.

#26 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-03-28 06:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Just send the checks to the pieces of filth who hire them, they'll pass that money right along to them. If you aren't willing to jail those folks then you really don't care about illegal immigration.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2020-03-28 07:08 AM | Reply

Since corporations are people shouldn't they only get a one time payment of $1,200.00 each?

#28 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2020-03-28 10:20 AM | Reply

I get that illegals stimulate the economy and then getting a check would likely benefit us just like the checks that go to everyone else.

But we don't have a mechanism to do it.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2020-03-28 10:25 AM | Reply

So we're concerned about illegal workers?

What are we doing for the prostitutes? I'm sure their business has gone down? Same with drug dealers.

And what about book makers? With pretty much every professional sporting event cancelled, how are they putting food on the table?

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-03-28 11:14 AM | Reply

"What I'm saying is, how many landlords and banks do you think are going to let rents and mortgages slide for the next month or 18?"

I am. For a few months anyways. If they are being told by the government that they're not allowed to work. After that, I'll need to evict them and get someone in the property who is working.

Can I give them your contact info, Snoofy? So you can explain to them why they're better off homeless? That it's a small price to pay if it provides some sick person somewhere a few more months or years?

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-03-28 11:16 AM | Reply

"undocumented immigrants"

I like the way the Left changes the wording, Global Warming to Climate Change, Illegal Immigrants to Undocumented, Abortion is Reproductive Rights, etc...

makes things so soft and nice

#32 | Posted by Maverick at 2020-03-28 11:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Just send the checks to the pieces of filth who hire them, they'll pass that money right along to them. "

You would know.

#33 | Posted by sentinel at 2020-03-28 12:24 PM | Reply

"After that, I'll need to evict them and get someone in the property who is working."

Working.
Don't you mean paying?

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 12:27 PM | Reply

"Can I give them your contact info, Snoofy? So you can explain to them why they're better off homeless?"

Explain to me why you're better off if they are homeless, MadBomber.

Then let's talk about creating wealth vs. redistributing wealth.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 12:33 PM | Reply

But we don't have a mechanism to do it.
#29 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Oh stop lying to yourself.

Sure we do. This is America.

We just don't want to. So we won't.

It's not that we can't. We just won't.

And there is no way we will with Humpy Trumpy in charge. He does not have something we liberals call "compassion".

#36 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 12:41 PM | Reply

Illegal Immigrants to Undocumented, Abortion is Reproductive Rights, etc...

makes things so soft and nice

#32 | POSTED BY MAVERICK

We could say the opposite about you and your fellow deplorables. You like to make things sound harsh and hateful.

There is no such thing as an illegal person. Period.

If you break the law you do not become an illegal person. So maybe you should think about that.

Dehumanizing immigrants is not productive and only leads to more dehumanizing of immigrants.

They are still human beings. With inalienable rights.

Just like us.

#37 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 12:47 PM | Reply

"Working. Don't you mean paying?"

Same thing.

Explain to me why you're better off if they are homeless, MadBomber.

Sure...right after you explain to me why they are better off homeless. Actually, you don't need to. You've already done it.

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-03-28 12:52 PM | Reply

"They are still human beings. With inalienable rights."

Inalienable rights?

They don't exist.

Ask Snoofy.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-03-28 12:54 PM | Reply

"Sure we do. This is America."

Go ahead and tell us how we do it.

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2020-03-28 12:59 PM | Reply

Inalienable rights?

They don't exist.

Ask Snoofy.

#39 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

No thank you. Sorry.

SNOOFY is not in charge of inalienable rights.

I will defer to our constitution and the universal declaration of human rights.

#41 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 01:00 PM | Reply

"And there is no way we will with Humpy Trumpy in charge."

With whom in the whitehouse are we going to start handing out cash to undocumented workers?

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2020-03-28 01:01 PM | Reply

Go ahead and tell us how we do it.
#40 | POSTED BY EBERLY

No thanks.

It's not my job and it's above my pay grade.

That would be the responsibility of our leadership. The ones who have the power and authority to make it happen.

A system could be devised if we wanted to devise one.

It is as easy for you to say we cant do it with no proof as it is for me to say could with no proof. But I know our capabilities and it would be well within our capabilities. If we wanted.

Check.

#43 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 01:06 PM | Reply

With whom in the whitehouse are we going to start handing out cash to undocumented workers?
#42 | POSTED BY EBERLY

No one in this whitey house.

Because they don't want to.

#44 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 01:07 PM | Reply

Inalienable rights?
They don't exist.
Ask Snoofy.
#39 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Since you brought it up:
Rights are government constructs, just like money.

And that's why Bitcoin scares government so much.
It's money that exists apart from government, and thus, the tax man.

It's also why an uncensored Internet scares China so much.
It's speech that exists apart from government, and thus, the censors.

"I will defer to our constitution and the universal declaration of human rights."

Only one of those has legal force in America.
The other is mistakenly perceived as being severely limiting of the free flow of capital, so it probably won't ever happen here.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 01:12 PM | Reply

I could have said "I know of no mechanism to distribute funds to undocumented workers. Does anybody else?"

Of course dinnerbell would say " SURE WE CAN! Of course, I have no earthly idea how."

LOL. It's an invitation to express an idea. That's all.

And we wanted this stimulus to pass. If anyone had attached a way to give this money to undocumented workers....it would have died.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2020-03-28 01:18 PM | Reply

I could have said "I know of no mechanism to distribute funds to undocumented workers. Does anybody else?"

How about: Using the same conduits through which undocumented workers currently get paid?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 01:23 PM | Reply

"With whom in the whitehouse are we going to start handing out cash to undocumented workers?"

With whom in the White House are we going to get rid of undocumented workers?

I'm sure you get the point, Eberly, but since you keep arguing against it:
This sword really ought to cut both ways.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 01:28 PM | Reply

And we wanted this stimulus to pass. If anyone had attached a way to give this money to undocumented workers....it would have died.

#46 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Thank you for proving my point for me.

We are not going to help any undocumented immigrants.

Because we don't want to.

Not because we can't. We absolutely could if we wanted to.

You can stop swinging your purse at me now Beverly.

#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 01:30 PM | Reply

"If anyone had attached a way to give this money to undocumented workers....it would have died."

Which is a very different thing than not being able to give this money to undocumented workers.
Is the Census unable to find a way to make contact with undocumented workers too, or is this just a problem for the Treasury?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 01:34 PM | Reply

There are probably a thousand ways we could help undocumented immigrants.

We could feed them. Clothe them. House them.

If we wanted to we could give them cash at the hospital. Like the NHS does. If they get the virus we give them a stipend as they check out.

Again. Not my specialty. Though I could help with the software. And data tracking.

Also. Not up to me. Humpy got this. Checks are in the mail!

#51 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 01:40 PM | Reply

"Thank you for proving my point for me."

I agree we aren't going to help them via this stimulus.

#52 | Posted by eberly at 2020-03-28 01:46 PM | Reply

I agree we aren't going to help them via this stimulus.

#52 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I agree.

And I agree that we could if we wanted to help them.

I agree that "we" as a nation don't want to.

I also agree that this is going to be a very sad time for America. Possibly a depression is coming. We could do so much better if we wanted to. But our bad choices are coming home to roost.

Again.

#53 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-03-28 01:56 PM | Reply

"There are probably a thousand ways we could help undocumented immigrants."

Again...why just them?

Why not everyone in the underground economy? The bookies. The prostitutes. The drug dealers. Whatever.

Is there something that makes undocumented workers special in ways that other underground workers are not?

And honestly, they're probably better positioned to prosper during this crisis than anyone else. They're motivated. They're not likely to limit themselves to a particular career field. I'd say that the undocumented workers are in a better place than your average American born worker.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-03-28 01:58 PM | Reply

Q: What does a society do when it eventually has more takers than makers?

#55 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-03-28 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What does a society do when it eventually has more takers than makers?

The society collapses.

Which is why America is in an economic crisis.

All the makers (the laborers) are staying home. Leaving the takers (the rich) freaking out.

Hopefully the laborers will figure out how valuable they are and stop feeding the rich.

#56 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-03-28 02:52 PM | Reply

"Q: What does a society do when it eventually has more takers than makers?"

Eventually?
Our government is twenty trillion dollars in debt, you think we've got a ways yet to go, then?

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-03-28 02:56 PM | Reply

"What does a society do when it eventually has more takers than makers?"

Let granny die, of course. I mean, if it's between that or a down day in the markets.

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-03-28 03:01 PM | Reply

Q: What does a society do when it eventually has more takers than makers?

#55 | POSTED BY MSGT AT 2020-03-28 02:46 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

President Trump artificially created such a scenario and President Biden will fix it.

Don't worry your pretty little head thinking too hard.

#59 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2020-03-29 12:47 AM | Reply

#30 File your tax returns. Any person, legal or illegal, can file. You want stimulus money? File. Pay your taxes. If you're lucky, maybe you get a refund and a stimulus.

Undocumented should be filing tax returns.
Bookies
Prostitutes
Drug dealers.

Basically dont give stimulus to those committing tax fraud. Come clean.

#60 | Posted by Petrous at 2020-03-29 09:41 AM | Reply

You are in a boat. You can only save one person: your wife or your twin sister. Who do you save?

You jump out and push them both in.

You save your wife because, well, its just icky thinking that way about your sister.

You save your sister as you will inherit.

Save neither. All for you. Room to stretch your legs.

#61 | Posted by Petrous at 2020-03-29 09:44 AM | Reply

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