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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, April 01, 2020

In this article 0676518D PUDONG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT Private Company 1790093D PARTY Private Company China has concealed the extent of the coronavirus outbreak in its country, under-reporting both total cases and deaths it's suffered from the disease, the U.S. intelligence community concluded in a classified report to the White House, according to three U.S. officials.

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Lovely. Cut and paste issues?

#1 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-04-01 06:35 PM | Reply

China is usually so honest and upfront about so many other things they do like hack the Pentagon appropriate American-made intellectual property and manipulate their currency.

Who can really blame anyone for trusting them on a deadly disease?

Nobody could have seen this one coming.

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-01 06:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#1

I had similar issues with my Lancet thread, just repost the substance in the thread.

#3 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-01 08:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"China has concealed the extent of the coronavirus outbreak in its country, under-reporting both total cases and deaths it's suffered from the disease, the U.S. intelligence community concluded in a classified report to the White House, according to three U.S. officials.

The officials asked not to be identified because the report is secret, and they declined to detail its contents. But the thrust, they said, is that China's public reporting on cases and deaths is intentionally incomplete. Two of the officials said the report concludes that China's numbers are fake."

#4 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-01 08:51 PM | Reply

"Deborah Birx, the State Department immunologist advising the White House on its response to the outbreak, said Tuesday that China's public reporting influenced assumptions elsewhere in the world about the nature of the virus.

"The medical community made -- interpreted the Chinese data as: This was serious, but smaller than anyone expected," she said at a news conference on Tuesday. "Because I think probably we were missing a significant amount of the data, now that what we see happened to Italy and see what happened to Spain."

China isn't the only country with suspect public reporting. Western officials have pointed to Iran, Russia, Indonesia and especially North Korea, which has not reported a single case of the disease, as probable under-counts. Others including Saudi Arabia and Egypt may also be playing down their numbers."

#5 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-01 08:55 PM | Reply

"The medical community made -- interpreted the Chinese data as: This was serious, but smaller than anyone expected,"

Seriously?

The intelligence community knew, but didn't tell the medical community?

Why do you defend this malfeasance?

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-01 09:17 PM | Reply

Color me shocked.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-01 09:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The intelligence community knew, but didn't tell the medical community?

Assumes facts not in evidence.

#8 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-01 10:55 PM | Reply

Nah, it's known the Senate was told by the intelligence community this was going to be a pandemic like the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919. Then they started selling stock.

You really think Birx and the White House didn't get the memo?

Womp womp.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-02 01:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So what, we do not follow them and

we are not dependent on them!

We have the best here if managed properly.

#10 | Posted by fresno500 at 2020-04-02 01:33 PM | Reply

it's known the Senate was told by the intelligence community this was going to be a pandemic

So the NSA's Counterproliferation and Biodefense Office was actually doing its job, contrary to the blithering about the Pandemic Office being disbanded. Got it.

You Dolts really need to keep your Talking Points straight.

#11 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-02 01:45 PM | Reply

I guess blaming China helps ignore the realities here in America.

Clearly, holding Trump responsible for his failures as a leader and the President of the United States, causes you anguish.

You guys do what ever you need to in order to cope.

Bad China! Bad!

Why you making Trumpy look bad! Wahh wahhh!

#12 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-02 01:48 PM | Reply

You Dolts really need to keep your Talking Points straight.
#11 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

The way you spun what Snoofy said into your nonsense?

I'd say people just need to keep an eye on keeping you honest.

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-02 01:49 PM | Reply

The way you spun what Snoofy said into your nonsense?

No spin required, that was an admission that the NSA's Counterproliferation and Biodefense Office did its job.

#14 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-02 02:04 PM | Reply

Nice to see the Trumpers are now supporting that evil lying anti trump deep state intelligence apparatus they once abhorred.

#15 | Posted by Scotty at 2020-04-02 02:23 PM | Reply

Nice to see the Trumpers are now supporting that evil lying anti trump deep state intelligence apparatus they once abhorred.

I don't like Trump and I don't like big brother, but I'd take that whole package every day if I had to choose between it and fascist China. Anyone who backs China in this is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

#16 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2020-04-02 03:36 PM | Reply

Is China's concealment of the extent of the outbreak being used to excuse the US' failure to adequately address the pandemic?

If so, why weren't other nations who responded better than we did similarly bamboozled by this?

#17 | Posted by JOE at 2020-04-02 03:51 PM | Reply

Anyone who backs China in this is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

#16 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

Which has not happened as far as I know.

But Trumpers have been cutting off their nose to spite their face for three years now.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-02 06:32 PM | Reply

Anyone who backs China in this is cutting off their nose to spite their face.
#16 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

You mean like this?
U.S. exported millions in masks, ventilators, other PPE ahead of coronavirus crisis here
www.usatoday.com

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-02 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"America is "exceptional" the laws of reality don't apply here, We create reality and while people are studying,judiciously, as it were,our actions,we change it again. We are the exceptional nation we create our own reality". Karl Rove. I rest my case. What a fool.

#20 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-02 09:54 PM | Reply

I don't like Trump and I don't like big brother, but I'd take that whole package every day if I had to choose between it and fascist China.

Fact is. No one is asking you to make that choice. You idiots are pretending there are sides that must be taken.

That's ridiculous.

You can be upset at China for creating the disease, being China and suppressing all information that makes them look bad. Which spread the disease to the rest of the world and Is now killing Americans.

Yet be furious at Trump for literally ignoring all information he was receiving about a possible pandemic. Calling it a Democratic hoax. Delaying any response. Defunding and disbanding the portion of the CDC specifically designed to deal with this. Withholding funds from States. Picking and choosing which states he'll help. Etc etc etc.

The difference between China and Trump is. We're responsible for Trump. America is our country. I don't care how dead the grass is over there in China. Look at our grass. It needs tending to.

#21 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-02 10:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Also.

Surprises -------------. It's China. They're literally a different country we have no control or influence over. Got a problem with them? Fly over there and say something. Go for it. You'll disappear.

Yes. I get it. Surprise ------------. It's Trump. What did I expect? Competence? A strong, selfless leader? Of course not. I expected him to fail. Sadly he did. When the leader of the nation fails, so does the nation. Welcome to our present day situation.

#22 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-02 10:12 PM | Reply

Yet be furious at Trump for literally ignoring all information he was receiving about a possible pandemic. Calling it a Democratic hoax. Delaying any response. Defunding and disbanding the portion of the CDC specifically designed to deal with this. Withholding funds from States. Picking and choosing which states he'll help.

Pretty much every single one of these talking points has been debunked.

But OK.

#23 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-04-02 10:33 PM | Reply

"Pretty much every single one of these talking points has been debunked."

No, they're all true, you're just here to nuance them into mabye-not-100%-trueness, which can only mean one thing!
Trump is Completely Exonerated of Coronavirus.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-02 10:36 PM | Reply

There's really only two questions that matter:

What did Trump know, and
When did he forget it.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-02 10:39 PM | Reply

Pretty much every single one of these talking points has been debunked.
But OK.

#23 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Wow you've gone further into Trump ------- stupid land than I thought.

He didn't act for a month after first case confirmed in US. Yeah, he ignored it.

He called the Dem criticism of him over his ignoring it their latest hoax. Turned out to be right and now we're trying to play catch up.

Defunded was debunked. He tried to, but Congress luckily said no in previous years and hadn't voted. Yet.

There are multiple active threads about the lack of fed response to state requests and at least one where it seems a state that's crucial to his reelction is getting VIP treatment.

Seems the only thing debunked is your talking point.

But OK.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-02 10:49 PM | Reply

I'm expecting a slightly more nuanced version of Trump is Totally Exonerated of Coroanvirus.
To be fair that message has been in circulation for several weeks now anyway.

The new one goes like this, I know because RightOCenter has already foamed the runway for it, when he acknowledged a few days ago that Trump's "initial handling" could have been better:

Everything else has been going so well-- the Dow was set to hit 30,000, the Wall was going great, the Perfect Phone Call, but then this one thing comes along and upends the whole world, it's not just America that's suffering.

And that's why
It's not fair to judge Trump by Just One Mistake.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-02 10:50 PM | Reply

well I see Jeff is already morphing this into a "it's global so we can't blame Trump cuz Chy-Nuh."

#28 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-02 11:02 PM | Reply

well I see Jeff is already morphing this into a "it's global so we can't blame Trump cuz Chy-Nuh."

#28 | POSTED BY JPW

Nice straw man. Trump deserves blame where it's warranted. China also deserves blame where it's warranted.

Bottom line: China is solely responsible for this thing being a global pandemic.

#29 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-02 11:17 PM | Reply

China isn't responsible for this.

www.vox.com

#30 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-04-02 11:29 PM | Reply

China isn't responsible for this.

www.vox.com

#31 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-04-02 11:29 PM | Reply

Bottom line: China is solely responsible for this thing being a global pandemic.

China (nor anyone else) had ever encountered this particular virus before. They had no idea how infectious it was nor how easily it would spread. Yes they did make numerous mistakes as the virus got an unneeded head start, but once they accepted the truth, they mobilized to protect their people at the cost of shutting down large swaths of their society.

The Trump Administration has now had 4 months to watch what was happening in China and fashion an appropriate response to protect America from its inevitable arrival. Even a total travel ban into America from everywhere - something Trump would never do- wouldn't have stopped the virus from getting here when there was never any notion of denying re-entry to Americans coming from areas where the infection was rampant nor stopping the importation of products and goods often coming from infected areas.

No country can stop a viral spread from moving outside its borders, particularly when the said virus has a 14 day incubation period before some carriers become symptomatic, and secondly and more importantly, said virus can be transmitted by asymptomatic carriers who have no idea they are infected and spread through close aerosol contact person to person.

It's unrealistic that China would have implemented draconian strategies before they understood the pathology of the virus and even given a matter of days or a week, the virus had already began to spread globally with nothing to stop it. You can blame China for the speed of the spread, but the virus was going to spread globally the second it infected the first unknowing person.

#32 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-02 11:35 PM | Reply

Bottom line: China is solely responsible for this thing being a global pandemic.

#29 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Would be a salient point if anybody was claiming Trump was to blame for it being a global (redundant) pandemic.

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-02 11:39 PM | Reply

Pretty much every single one of these talking points has been debunked.
#23 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

"Pretty much"? Is that your way of saying none of it has?

Go for it.

Debunk them.

Show your work.

You pathetic liar.

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-02 11:41 PM | Reply

Bottom line: China is solely responsible for this thing being a global pandemic.
#29 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

How so?

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-02 11:47 PM | Reply

Yes they did make numerous mistakes...- Tony

Their mistakes consisted of jailing whistleblowers, pretending nothing was wrong, issuing propaganda that the WHO and our leftist media dutifully repeated and business as usual for over 2 months as people traveled out of China all over the globe spreading this damn thing.

That's not "mistakes".

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-03 12:27 AM | Reply

seems a state that's crucial to his reelction is getting VIP treatment.

Florida doesn't look too great though

#37 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2020-04-03 01:39 AM | Reply

#36 China is not responsible for Covid becoming a pandemic. They tried to hide the extent of their problem, which caused it to spread faster, but is was going to spread. Foreigners visiting China who wanted to leave could not be kept in China. It is highly contagious and can be spread asymptomatically, which was not clear initially.

Experts were expecting a pandemic, and few believed China's numbers, they are as reliable as Trump numbers.

South Korea learned from SARS and contained their outbreak by acting quickly and decisively.

Trump tweeted CCP propaganda and did nothing for 2 months, against the advice of experts.

Now Trump is hoarding vital supplies to hand out for political advantage. He is the least patriotic POTUS in history.

#38 | Posted by bored at 2020-04-03 03:37 AM | Reply

"The Chinese doctor who was reprimanded for "spreading rumours" after he sought to warn colleagues about the emergence of Covid-19 has been officially exonerated by an investigation into his death." www.theguardian.com

reprimanded for "spreading rumours"

JeffJ has a ponit.

Of course, that's also pretty much what Trump did.
Trump reprimanded Democrats for spreading rumors with their whole "hoax" thing.
Then he lied about having it under control. Nobody told him we have it under control. He just made that up.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 04:43 AM | Reply

Bottom line: China is solely responsible for this thing being a global pandemic.

China and its enablers like Donald J. Trump:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Working closely with China and others on Coronavirus outbreak. Only 5 people in U.S., all in good recovery.
5:04 PM Jan 30, 2020Twitter for iPhone

Trump thanks China's Xi Jinping for handling of coronavirus
Jan 24 2020

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump wrote in a post on Twitter. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported the first instance of the virus in the United States earlier this week. There are 63 cases being monitored across 22 states, according to the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.

The second patient diagnosed with the virus is a woman in her 60s who recently returned from Wuhan, health officials said Friday. The first U.S. patient, whose diagnosis was confirmed on Tuesday, had also recently traveled to Wuhan.

In an interview on Wednesday, Trump said that he believed the virus was under control. He also said he had confidence in the Chinese government to be transparent.

"We have it under control. It's going to be just fine," Trump told CNBC's Joe Kernen.


www.cnbc.com

There's no way around it, Jeff, Trump has American blood on his hands.

#40 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-04-03 07:54 AM | Reply

Hook, line and sinker:

Trump says he trusts China's Xi on coronavirus and the US has it totally under control'

Trump told CNBC he believes that Chinese President Xi Jinping and health officials there are going to continue to tell authorities around the world everything they need to know about the virus.

"I do. I do. I have a great relationship with President Xi," said Trump, addressing a question about whether he's concerned about transparency in China. "The relationship is very good."


www.cnbc.com

Trump Says Chinese President Xi Told Him That Heat Will Kill Coronavirus 'by April'
2/10/20
www.newsweek.com

Trump Not Worried China's Covering Up Coronavirus Situation After Talking With President Xi 2/7/20

After speaking with Chinese President Xi Jinping, President Donald Trump said Friday he is confident that China is being transparent about its handling of the new coronavirus outbreak.

Early Friday morning, Trump tweeted that he'd had a "long and very good conversation" with Xi. The president said that Xi believes China is "doing very well" and that the Chinese leader, who is "strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack," would be successful.

"Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!" Trump concluded in his tweet.


www.newsweek.com

#41 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-04-03 08:03 AM | Reply

Trump Says Chinese President Xi Told Him That Heat Will Kill Coronavirus 'by April'

I remember Trump saying this, saying something likely, "People are saying. . ." I didn't know "the people" he had in mind was President Xi.

"Still a man hears what he wants to hear
and disregards the rest."

#42 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-04-03 08:09 AM | Reply

#36 China is not responsible for Covid becoming a pandemic.

According to health experts had they taken responsible actions (including being transparent) they would have prevented 95% of the spread. So, yeah, China is absolutely the reason this snowballed into a global pandemic.

#43 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-03 03:34 PM | Reply

"they would have prevented 95% of the spread"

And how would that have stopped it?

Show your work.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 03:49 PM | Reply

#44 A thread was created about it a couple of weeks ago. You can pretty easily find it in the archives.

#45 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-03 04:02 PM | Reply

Bottom line: China is solely responsible for this thing being a global pandemic.
#29 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Bottom line: Trump is solely responsible for COVID19 being and American pandemic.

#46 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-03 04:04 PM | Reply

A thread was created about it a couple of weeks ago. You can pretty easily find it in the archives.
#45 | POSTED BY JEFF

Link or sink.

#47 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-03 04:04 PM | Reply

"You can pretty easily find it in the archives."

You can pretty easily find it doesn't say what you claim.
That's why you won't link it.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 04:05 PM | Reply

"they would have prevented 95% of the spread"

And how would that have stopped it?

Show your work.

He can't. He keeps up the absurd assertion that China should have known enough from minute one to shut down Wuhan and try to confine the virus to a concentrated area in which mitigation measures would have stopped its spread.

This is an impossibility once the very first person became infected and started spreading the infection amongst others before anyone even knew the virus existed in the community. The only way to stop the virus was to stop people from interacting with other people at the virus's source.

The only thing that earlier realization of the virus' spread could have accomplished was a slowing of the speed of the spread, but it's impossible that once the first patient was infected that this virus (now understood to be spreadable through breath alone, and existent in otherwise asymptomatic carriers) would race around the globe just like people do who interconnect through travel.

#49 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump tweeted CCP propaganda and did nothing for 2 months

Clearly it's China's fault Trump is such a fffking moron.

Right, Jeff?

#50 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-03 04:06 PM | Reply

...wouldn't race around the globe....

#51 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 04:08 PM | Reply

Right, Jeff?
#50 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

According to MACKRIS, Trump was duped by China numerous times since January. And continues to take the bait each time.

I wonder why that is.

#52 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-04-03 04:13 PM | Reply

He keeps up the absurd assertion that China should have known enough from minute one to shut down Wuhan and try to confine the virus to a concentrated area in which mitigation measures would have stopped its spread.

The parallels in how China's system behaved in response to this issue and how the Soviet Union's system behaved in response to Chernobyl are remarkably stark.

#53 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-04-03 04:15 PM | Reply

They think China should have dusted off and nuked Wuhan from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

They're just afraid to say it.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 04:20 PM | Reply

Jeff,

How was China supposed to find every single person in the country who was infected before a test for the virus was invented?

How was China going to identify every single person carrying the virus and isolate them from every other person, including non-Chinese naturals who were infected?

How was China going to stop the viral spread of the disease without stopping every single person from entering or leaving China, and how could they know whether infected persons hadn't already left the country and begin to spread the disease globally?

I can't believe that you'd take any source claiming that 95% of the spread could have been stopped because that number is meaningless. Unless 100% was stopped, the virus would still spread throughout the world as people travel throughout the world, sharing airports, airplanes, and other mass public forms of conveyance where close proximity with others is unavoidable.

#55 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 04:31 PM | Reply

JeffJ, what percentage disabled are you?

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 04:37 PM | Reply

"I can't believe that you'd take any source"

JeffJ does not have sufficient bandwidth to understand the difference between one contagious person with an infectious disease with R0 gerater than 1, and 20 contagious people with a disease with R0 greater than one is not really a difference at all, unless all 1 or 20 people can be contained.

It's not his fault that he didn't learn anything about epidemiology in college -- seriously, who here has aside from me and JPW and maybe a few others -- but it his his fault that he parrots lies without even understanding it. And he should be called out on it. And he should stop doing it.

But he won't, because in war, the first casualty is always the truth.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 04:45 PM | Reply

It's not his fault that he didn't learn anything about epidemiology in college

One shouldn't have to have learned epidemiology to understand that the very noun viral comes from the same etymology as virus and that both words define a multiplied or exponential growth.

#58 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 04:56 PM | Reply

If Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95%.

You can read the whole thing here:

www.zmescience.com

#59 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-03 05:05 PM | Reply

If Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did

I love hypothetical, "what if" games.

How many lives could have been saved if Trump acted two months earlier?

How would the world be different if Hillary had won in 2016?

If 9/11 didn't happen?

If Jimmy Carter won his reelection?

If Kennedy wasn't assassinated?

If Germany, Italy and Japan won WW2?

#60 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-03 05:13 PM | Reply

"the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95%."

The number of coronavirus cases doubles (goes up 100%) in like a week.
So what you're saying is China could have bought the United States one more week for Trump to play golf and hold campaign rallies, like the six rallies he held in January and February.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 05:17 PM | Reply

"One shouldn't have to have learned epidemiology"

So true.
I'm sure we have all seen the Star Trek episode, "The Trouble With Tribbles."
But some of us don't have the capacity or inclination to apply that understanding to the world around us.

Those people are called Deplorables.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 05:20 PM | Reply

#60 Well, you could try reading the link I provided. Up-thread you said, "Link or stink."

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-03 05:20 PM | Reply

#63

You're right, I commend you for the link.

If China had acted sooner they could have minimized the spread.

But, even if one zombie survives, the virus will still spread.

Considering how large the impact of COVID19 was in Italy and Iran, the virus was spreading before anyone was aware of its existence.

#64 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-03 05:26 PM | Reply

#59

As we've tried to tell you ad nauseum, the study is solely based on MATH, not on how governments actually work through information and make decisions. It does not take into consideration that the virus was unknown and that testing was unavailable, and that there was no human way possible that it would not have spread across the globe unless China quarantined the entire country the minute the virus was discovered (see #57 above).

The article only calculates that the spread's speed could have been slowed and that other countries might have been able to take immediate measures in the same time periods to protect their populaces as much as possible from its spread. Except for South Korea and Singapore, no other larger country took those measures.

The US has had 3 months of advance time and still we're leading the world in infections and growing. We still can't test and retest our populace, nor contact trace, quarantine and isolate. This is what you're criticizing China for not doing quickly enough.

China did what they thought was best for them and quickly changed course when they realized how much damage the virus could cause and how vulnerable they'd left their country. And in Trump's mind, that's what he erroneously thinks he's doing right now in ours.

#65 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 05:30 PM | Reply

Remember how much power Obama had, and abused, according to JeffJ?

Now look how powerless Trump is, according to JeffJ.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 05:32 PM | Reply

As we've tried to tell you ad nauseum, the study is solely based on MATH, not on how governments actually work through information and make decisions. It does not take into consideration that the virus was unknown and that testing was unavailable, and that there was no human way possible that it would not have spread across the globe unless China quarantined the entire country the minute the virus was discovered (see #57 above).

If I understand you correctly there really wasn't anything China could have done to prevent it from spreading globally, meaning it was going to happen no matter what, even had they taken action sooner. If that's the case, why all of the angst over Trump not taking action sooner (of course we have to ignore the travel ban out of China on January 31)?

#67 | Posted by JeffJ at 2020-04-03 05:42 PM | Reply

"If that's the case, why all of the angst"

Compare South Korea and Germany to the United States.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 05:44 PM | Reply

If that's the case, why all of the angst over Trump not taking action sooner (of course we have to ignore the travel ban out of China on January 31)?

Compare South Korea and Germany to the United States.

YES! No one is upset at Trump for not stopping the virus from getting here. It was coming no matter what he did or did not do. That is why continually talking about any ineffective travel ban is so meaningless.

We're upset because the United States had multiple examples of what had to be done across our entire nation that could have minimized the damage and spread of the virus and even today we've not comprehensively done any of the only things that matter!

We needed ample tests so that those with the virus could be identified and isolated. We needed contract tracing before the number of infected got so far out of control that contract tracing now cannot be as effective as it would have been 6 weeks ago. We needed to do the things that South Korea did that kept their society from completely shutting down and their entire economy grinding to a halt.

That is the basis of our criticism of Trump. It's based on his feckless, wholly maddening response and nothing but that given as how the most effective way forward was already mapped out long before he took the virus seriously about 10 days ago.

#69 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 05:54 PM | Reply

CHina and Russia are both lying about their infection rates and how many are dead.

#70 | Posted by Tor at 2020-04-03 05:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump, who is Constitutionally obligated to protect and control our borders, did not do so.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-03 05:56 PM | Reply

Too many people, both dems and reps, governors, the president, mayors, the public...

None of us would have accepted the dire quarantines needed back in January.

Can you imagine stopping the Senate trial?
Can you imagine all the restrictions we are living with today applied in January.

Heck, not even Feb. You had a lot of people of all stripes that would have balked at today's restrictions then.

People are still breaking the shelter in place. People are still hoarding.

Human nature tells us the call for action when needed would have been laughed off.

Were not laughing because we are in the frying pan.

#72 | Posted by Petrous at 2020-04-03 06:22 PM | Reply

Can you imagine stopping the Senate trial?

Can you imagine all the restrictions we are living with today applied in January.

Heck, not even Feb. You had a lot of people of all stripes that would have balked at today's restrictions then.

I don't think a single person is claiming that what's happening now needed to start in January. You're missing the point. What needed to happen in January was at minimum twofold. First, explain to the public what was going to happen since a virus had begun to spread from China and that its spread across the globe was inevitable. The first US patient was confirmed in mid January, so the virus was already here. From that point, it was only a matter of time as its spread advanced.

Second, set up a centralized command structure to adequately prepare and operationalize the various responses as the virus became more pervasive since it should have always been viewed as a national problem, not one that could be handled independently by the states.

The rest goes from there. We could have started social distancing practices where possible and most importantly learn and incorporate measures already proven to work in other countries further along in their response curve. But the main thing would have been preparation and education to minimize panic and fear. And then we should have made adjustments as necessary.

#73 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-03 06:56 PM | Reply

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