Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, April 10, 2020

Adam Tooze: As the coronavirus lockdown began, the first impulse was to search for historical analogies -- 1914, 1929, 1941? As the weeks have ground on, what has come ever more to the fore is the historical novelty of the shock that we are living through. As a result of the coronavirus pandemic, America's economy is now widely expected to shrink by a quarter.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

By "normal" do we mean an economy in which the top 1% are entitled to 90% of all wealth. By "normal" do we mean an economy in which millions and millions of Americans are unable to support their families at the jobs offered by most industries? "normal" isn't a good thing. That is why a man like Bernie Sanders was able to garner so much support from so many of us.

#1 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-04-10 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Aaand, it's gone. Gone. No more fun ride.

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 02:40 PM | Reply

So you are telling me that the job creators can't just turn the economy back on with their bootstraps?

#3 | Posted by bored at 2020-04-10 02:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"By "normal" do we mean an economy in which the top 1% are entitled to 90% of all wealth. By "normal" do we mean an economy in which millions and millions of Americans are unable to support their families at the jobs offered by most industries? "normal" isn't a good thing."

You're cute.

You know if you make more than $35k a year, you're in the top 1%, right?

#4 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-10 03:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Top one percent of what? Global earnings? Apples and oranges dude. Go live off off the grid in Slovenia or Moldova. If you want to feel rich at that income level.

#5 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 03:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're cute.
You know if you make more than $35k a year, you're in the top 1%, right?
#4 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

...and you're even cuter...

To be among the top 1 percent of U.S. earners, a family needs an income of $421,926, a new report from the Economic Policy Institute finds. www.cnbc.com

#6 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2020-04-10 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why post nonsense that has no relevance to life as lived "in America"?

#7 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 03:40 PM | Reply

You know if you make more than $35k a year, you're in the top 1%, right?

#4 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

This tripe again?

#8 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-10 03:41 PM | Reply

Why are righties so intellectually dishonest?

#9 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2020-04-10 03:41 PM | Reply

Madbomber is a troll.He probably makes at least $200,000 a year.

#10 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 03:44 PM | Reply

I wouldn't say he's a troll.

That's just an absurd argument considering cost of living is also in the 1% in America.

It's just a bad argument.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-10 03:51 PM | Reply

10

So?

I'm not sure I agree with everything in the article but it's pretty well written. What's so unique about this economic downturn is that is essentially self-imposed. It's a policy choice.

And, yes, we've learned it's actually easier to shut the economy down than it is to stimulate it.

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-10 03:53 PM | Reply

"You know if you make more than $35k a year, you're in the top 1%, right?"

You know that's a specious argument, right?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 03:55 PM | Reply

-It's just a bad argument.

So was #1. That's what he was responding to

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-10 03:56 PM | Reply

"You know if you make more than $35k a year, you're in the top 1%, right?"

Actually he said "an economy in which the top 1% are entitled to 90% of all wealth."

An income of $32,400 per year would allow someone to be among the top 1% of income earners in the world.
To reach the top 1% worldwide in terms of wealth"not just income but all you own"you'd have to possess $744,400 in net worth.
www.investopedia.com

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 04:08 PM | Reply

"By "normal" do we mean an economy in which the top 1% are entitled to 90% of all wealth."
#1 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2020-04-10 02:40 PM | FLAG: Tell me, are you 'entitled' to that which you earn through your labor and/or investment?

#16 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-04-10 04:15 PM | Reply

-It's just a bad argument.
So was #1. That's what he was responding to

#14 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I disagree.

Moder's comment was matter of fact and true in that people working their ass off HERE can barely afford to live HERE.

Introducing an irrelevant piece of information about places other than HERE is absurd.

#17 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-10 04:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

17

My goodness. Moder8's post was a rant about how our "normal economy " works.

If we're lucky, we'll return to exactly what he (and you) are complaining about. At least for now. But moder8 is getting his whining in before we recover. LOL

How do you see that post as anymore relevant than madbombers?

They made true statements.....but both stupid regardless.

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-10 04:27 PM | Reply

I should edit my #12 to say "slow an economy down"

#19 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-10 04:29 PM | Reply

#10 He works in government so probably a little less than that; but you and i are are paying him to post garbage on drudge. Happy Friday :)

#20 | Posted by JOE at 2020-04-10 04:38 PM | Reply

How do you see that post as anymore relevant than madbombers?
They made true statements.....but both stupid regardless.

#18 | POSTED BY EBERLY

For a large majority of people the old normal isn't where they'd want to go back to.

Although I get the impression the new normal, if it's a new normal, won't be kind to those folks either.

BTW I'm not whining. I'm fine in the old normal and probably will be in the new normal. That doesn't mean I don't recognize a potential opportunity to improve other people's lives, though.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-10 04:41 PM | Reply

"If we're lucky, we'll return to exactly what he (and you) are complaining about. "

"lucky"

Who is lucky, when we return to a system where "Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households?"

Show me the luck.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 04:52 PM | Reply

"For a large majority of people the old normal isn't where they'd want to go back to."

First they came for the essential minimum wage workers, and I did not speak out, for I was not an essential minimum wage worker.
Signed,
Eberly

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 05:04 PM | Reply

The rich are ripping everyone else off,and they are more than getting away with it. We have elevated it to the highest achievement in human life. Our values as a nation are war and greed. Our whole society is a death cult. The virus is a chance for us to change direction.

I just don't see that happening. We fear change and self examination far too much to ever even really acknowledge our own faults and evil.

#24 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 05:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" Tell me, are you 'entitled' to that which you earn through your labor and/or investment?"

Which are you talking about? A trust find baby making $50,000 of dividends from Walmart owes no federal taxes. Meanwhile a janitor who profits $50,000 via sweat of the brow labor for cleaning that Walmart owes over $10,000 in federal taxes.

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-04-10 05:10 PM | Reply

#25 Right on. Nailed it. Capital gains should be taxed at least 35% bloodsuckers mooching while wage earners are taxed twice what they are.

#26 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 05:14 PM | Reply

"Tell me, are you 'entitled' to that which you earn through your labor and/or investment?"

^
With 'entitled' in quotes like that, what does the question even mean?

How about this for a question:
Tell me, are you entitled to that which you produce through your labor?

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 05:16 PM | Reply

Not if Donald TRUMP declares a national emergency and wants what you have. Then FEMA or some other agency will take it and leave you with nothing.
More Winning.

#28 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 05:23 PM | Reply

21

Fair enough.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-10 05:24 PM | Reply

"Moder's comment was matter of fact and true in that people working their ass off HERE can barely afford to live HERE."

No, it's comment was that people working here can't afford to enjoy what would be considered luxuries by the rest of the world.

The whole point is that this is not just a US thing...it's a pandemic. Moderate's post distilled it down to something to the effect that some people in the US can no longer afford to pay for their SUV and iPhone X. Maybe that sucks...but you can still choose to have your car repossessed. And maybe you have to buy a burner phone. But if you're in the US right now, you're not going to starve to death. You may have to experience a lower standard of living...but let's not pretend that any American is ever going to suffer like someone in Honduras will.

But we're Americans, right? We're exceptional. We deserve to be rich because of where we were born.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-10 05:25 PM | Reply

"To be among the top 1 percent of U.S. earners, a family needs an income of $421,926, a new report from the Economic Policy Institute finds. www.cnbc.com"

Cute.

You should google how much you need to earn to be amongst the 1% worldwide.

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-10 05:27 PM | Reply

What about you. Do you deserve to be rich? Or is the moralizing only for others who haven't "earned" it like you have? By killing strangers from the air, the most cowardly form of killing there is.

#32 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 05:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You should google how much you need to earn to be amongst the 1% worldwide."

Are those jobs available worldwide, or just in the 1% areas?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 05:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You should google how much you need to earn to be amongst the 1% worldwide.

#31 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I don't live "worldwide", I live in the US. Apparently, you think 1% of the population is more valuable than 90% of the rest of us. What kind of "merit" justifies that? Why is paying for labor more "valuable" than performing labor? That's only valid under the "Golden Rule" (he who has the most gold makes the rules). That is amoral and horrible ethically. But who cares about morals and ethics, right?

#34 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2020-04-10 05:52 PM | Reply

"I don't live "worldwide", I live in the US."

Well that's your own dumb fault for not being able to live in Ghana and work your American job!

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 05:54 PM | Reply

- I don't live "worldwide",

MB's "But... but, Somalia!" while everyone else is talking about life in our country has been a trademarked Stupid Meme of his ever since he's been here.

It's a totally extraneous canard.

#36 | Posted by Corky at 2020-04-10 06:06 PM | Reply

"But if you're in the US right now, you're not going to starve to death"

Nobody on the planet starves to death, except as a political choice by their leaders.
As someone who loves to talk about Stalin, it's strange that you aren't aware of this fact.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 06:12 PM | Reply

#25 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2020-04-10 05:10 PM | FLAG: FYI

A 2017 survey from Fidelity Investments found that 88 percent of millionaires are self-made. Only 12 percent inherited significant money (at least 10 percent of their wealth), and most did not grow up in exclusive country club neighborhoods.Nov 29, 2018

7 Myths About Millionaires | On Retirement | US ... - US News Money

Apparently you were ignorant the the majority of the wealthy earned their wealth and are not 'trust fund babies'. Surprised at that with your background you would have checked rather than listen to the 'party lie/line'.

#38 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-04-10 06:13 PM | Reply

Earned how. By exploiting others or not, is that broken down? I kind of doubt it.

#39 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 06:18 PM | Reply

88 percent of millionaires are self-made.

Now do billionaires.

#40 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-04-10 06:19 PM | Reply

"Moderate's post distilled it down to something to the effect that some people in the US can no longer afford to pay for their SUV and iPhone X."

No, that was you, distilling it down to your patented MadBomber's Essential Hyperbolic Economic Stupidity Oil.
You do realize only about 1 in 20 Americans has an iPhone X, right?

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 06:24 PM | Reply

"88 percent of millionaires are self-made."

They did it without employees?
???

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 06:25 PM | Reply

OT: I don't think many people are gaming out what has occurred with this pandemic. Much of our group economic activities will not be viable again until a vaccine has conquered the virus because even with testing and contact tracing, re-engaging activities that place significant numbers of people into close quarters where they are sharing airspace without absolute certainty that every person there is virus free.

This means bars and restaurants aren't going to reopen in the manner they've always operated in. It's impossible to eat and drink through facial coverings and their physical spaces are not designed to socially distance patrons, they're designed for just the opposite. No one is going to want to expose themselves to possible infection for the sake of a job or a drink that could possibly end up sickening or killing you. Think about the people who handle the used dishware and glasses. They'll need full PPE to keep from possible exposure, and what about all the surfaces patrons continually touch. Until there's a vaccine, none of these businesses can function like they did before the virus.

Now extrapolate common sense across the spectrum of what used to be daily activities. What about mass transportation which is mandatory for moving millions upon millions into urban and suburban work zones unable to handle more personal vehicles and the millions that don't even own cars. How can we socially distance without reducing capacity exponentially?

Movie theaters, plays, sports of all types, including group practicing; how are any of these activities going to resume until everyone feels safe that these interactions won't lead to infection from unknowing asymptomatic participants?

The world has changed and no one in authority is even talking about the tremendous wave of change that we're going to find on the other side.

#43 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-10 06:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Only 12 percent inherited significant money (at least 10 percent of their wealth)"

^
This is overlooking the people who inherited 100% of their wealth and then grew it 20x over the next five decades, making the amount the actually inherited only 5% of their current wealth.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 06:32 PM | Reply

Much of our group economic activities will not be viable again until a vaccine has conquered the virus because even with testing and contact tracing, re-engaging activities that place significant numbers of people into close quarters where they are sharing airspace without absolute certainty that every person there is virus free will absolutely lead to a re-spread of the virus.

#45 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-10 06:32 PM | Reply

I miss so many everyday events, I'm craving going to a mindless action movie in a theater and eating a big tub of buttered popcorn, I miss going to hockey games, I miss watching the NHL on TV. I'm really going to miss baseball this summer. One of my good friends in my line of work just retired after 25 years and we couldn't even have a big send-off for her. Short of a vaccine and/or mass testing, America will not be returning to life as usual, even if all the jobs and businesses were waiting for us when Dotard decrees the pandemic is over. I saw a poll, most sports fans will not be returning to arenas and stadiums before a vaccine comes along. Sadly, this may be the end of spectator sports.

#46 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-04-10 06:37 PM | Reply

We're totally screwed man,life will never be the same again. Waah,Waah,Waah. I want normal back not this fear of everything schitt,man!

#47 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 06:39 PM | Reply

Sadly, this may be the end of spectator sports.

Probably at least until next year. There won't be any football this year, nor will basketball, hockey, or baseball be played again until at least into 2021.

As you noted, it's all about a vaccine at this point, and that will take time for the trials to be completed to insure it's safe as well as effective.

#48 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-10 06:41 PM | Reply

"Apparently you were ignorant the the majority of the wealthy earned their wealth and are not 'trust fund babies'."

Whatever.
They're coddled by the government at every turn.
That's what it means when we say we're a Capitalist country.
Do you think the Small Business Administration promotes Capitalism, yes or no?
Do you think the Dept of the Treasury promotes Capitalism, yes or no?
Do you think the Depts of State, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Housing and Urban Development, Transportation, Energy, and Education promote Capitalism, yes or no?

It's strange to me how Capitalism places such a premium on people who sing the virtues of Capitalism not understanding how Capitalism works. I guess that's to keep the resource pool available to people who understand things from getting too diluted.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 06:41 PM | Reply

You should google how much you need to earn to be amongst the 1% worldwide.
#31 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Hey MadBomber,
EffetePoser had a good point.
How many bombs did you have to drop to be amongst the 1% of killers worldwide?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 06:46 PM | Reply

I want normal back not this fear of everything schitt,man!

I know you're being partly facetious, but it's simply the truth about our immediate future, not a death sentence for everything we love. Would you have believed in early February that most of America would be living under stay-at-home orders because of a viral outbreak? Normal keeps changing almost everyday as new discoveries about the pathology and transmission of the virus is learned and passed on to the public.

This is why Trump's haste to force the virus into his preferred time frame for emerging from economic shut down is already DOA. Entire sectors of our domestic economy are based on a lot of people interacting with each other in the very ways that will insure the virus will spread and spread regardless of what we do short of almost tagging every individual and knowing their constant status as uninfected, infected, or recovered from infection - along with a universal ability to isolate the infected when they're discovered and quarantining those they've recently interacted with through contact tracing.

None of these have been proposed by the Administration even though their experts try to tell them this each and every day.

#51 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-10 06:50 PM | Reply

Totally screwed. Trump is so stupid, he's like Guinness book of world records stupid.
If he wins again we will enter a period of eclipse like a dark age.
America is on a fast track to global irrelevance, like Britain was in the 1950s. Our age of empire is ending with a cough and a sniffle. The future could be far better than the past.
But that would take an electorate that isn't as stupid as the one we have.
Good luck with that.

Joe Biden doesn't have the juice or the brains to pull it off.
The future looks really bleak to me.

#52 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 07:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Joe Biden doesn't have the juice or the brains to pull it off.

I've never understood why people wrongly believe that any President personally makes substantive, complicated decisions all on their own. Biden will surround himself with far better people than Trump has advising him, namely because it's doubtful any of his family will be among them - unlike Trump.

Biden will seek the counsel of the smartest visionaries America has to offer and he'll fully staff every position within the government so that it can operate with deliberate speed and competence. He won't seek yes men and sycophants to justify him blindly following his own instincts unless they jibe with the experts.

Joe will be just fine and I trust that the individual he picks as VP will be ready to give him thoughtful, educated counsel as well, and will possess the capability of immediately stepping in should the need arise.

#53 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-10 07:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You got a lot of faith there, man. I just don't see it. Biden doesn't walk on water. He's human clay like everyone else. Only kind of touched in the head and a corporate tool. Electable only because the bar is set on the floor.
Interesting times ahead. I wish it was boring. Oh well I'm oldish, may I won't suffer TOO long.

#54 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 07:40 PM | Reply

I'm wondering how many middle managers will be out of a job when this is all said and done.

One thing I am noticing being a guy out in the field how many companies are able to send lots of their employees home with no loss of productivity.

#55 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-04-10 08:21 PM | Reply

"I just don't see it. Biden doesn't walk on water."

Expecting Joe Biden in going to swoop in and save you like some damsel in distress...

Well, that's what Deplorables hoped Trump was going to do,
That's also what Trump is literally doing, by seizing PPE and redistributing it to swing states he needs in November.

Maybe you're just looking at the wrong pond, so you're missing how Trump is walking on water right now?

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-10 09:55 PM | Reply

They did it without employees?
???

#42 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-04-10 06:25 PM | FLAG: Other way around. They created the business that gave those employees a job -- good example Bill Gates; 'nuf said.

#57 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-04-10 10:34 PM | Reply

#56,Yeah that must be it. Thanks for putting me on the right road, I guess it all makes sense now. I can see the big picture now. Trump is OZ and ZARDOZ all in one. We have to learn to LONG for death, that's the answer, now my life is complete!

#58 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-10 10:52 PM | Reply

They did it without employees?
???
#42 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-04-10 06:25 PM | FLAG: Other way around. They created the business that gave those employees a job

How is that the other way round? Bill Gates did it with employees, you're saying what I'm saying.
I'm pretty sure you're right, Bill Gates profited from my labor, and so did the agency I was working for, all those years ago.
Can't imagine they hired me to lose money.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 01:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sadly, this may be the end of spectator sports.
---

The whining over this pandemic is hilarious. Can't handle a season without sports games? Oh no! Your fave movies delayed? The humanity! Also, we'll never shake hands again!

Should've went the "thin the herd" route.

#60 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-04-11 03:26 AM | Reply

"What about you. Do you deserve to be rich?"

Nobody deserves to be rich. They get that way because someone gave them money in return for something they did.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:38 AM | Reply

"The world has changed and no one in authority is even talking about the tremendous wave of change that we're going to find on the other side."

That's because I don't think anyone knows what it is going to look like.

I think Coronavirus is sort of silly. AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world. But regardless, this pandemic is undoubtedly a catalyst for massive changes that are still yet to come.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:40 AM | Reply

"They're coddled by the government at every turn."

Yeah. by be tasked with paying the bills for the rest of us.

That's some coddling I could do without.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:47 AM | Reply

"I know you're being partly facetious, but it's simply the truth about our immediate future, not a death sentence for everything we love."

And I would tell you that, if you're scared you might die of something, you should never leave your house again.

For me, and probably many others, the slight chance that I Might get sick, and the even slighter chance that I might die aren't worth living in isolation until someone comes and rescues me from COVID. I understand your concern, but you should probably understand that not everyone is as scared as you are. And they shouldn't be forced to follow your behavior because you are scared.

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:50 AM | Reply

"Biden will surround himself with far better people than Trump has advising him, namely because it's doubtful any of his family will be among them - unlike Trump."

Being a good leader doesn't require knowing everything about everything. It means knowing something about most things, and more importantly, surrounding yourself with experts who do know a lot about one or two things. And then relying on them to guide you through the decision making process.

Trump doesn't do that. he makes decisions on his own without consulting experts, or relies on sycophants or family members who simply echo what they think he wants to hear.

#65 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"One thing I am noticing being a guy out in the field how many companies are able to send lots of their employees home with no loss of productivity."

I think that is going to be one of the big changes we see coming out of this thing.

If you're an employer who can effectively have employees work from home, what is the value of maintaining a brick and mortar office when you can eliminate those costs? Additionally, it would help to alleviate the need for childcare for workers with small children.

I think we may see a lot of employers telling their employees to continue working from home.

#66 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:56 AM | Reply

"Well, that's what Deplorables hoped Trump was going to do"

And that's what the BernieBros were hoping Sanders would do.

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 03:58 AM | Reply

#66

Yes I think so especially as employers scramble to cut costs to survive. However I think a lot of those employees that were furloughed will never be brought back for the same reason. The employers will look at the situation and realize they were paying a lot of people who it turns out were just overhead. I know personally three instances of companies using this as an excuse to get rid of unwanted employees. I can only imagine nationwide that will be orders of magnitude larger that my personal experience. I mean you can get rid of them, you don't get hit with unemployment they can't sue for wrongful termination it's a great opportunity.

There will also be reorganizations which will shed thousands of jobs as companies fight for survival. I would not be surprised to see 10% unemployment in 18 months.

#68 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-04-11 05:55 AM | Reply

"There will also be reorganizations which will shed thousands of jobs as companies fight for survival. I would not be surprised to see 10% unemployment in 18 months."

Especially in entertainment. Universal is already streaming new movies, and I think that trend will continue. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to watch a new movie from home over going to a theater any day. Even if you charge $30-$40 dollars, I would still be paying less than if I took the fam down to the AMC. Same thing with brick and mortar retail. It's been going away for a while. But this was just the pre-existing condition that COVID used as an entry point to kill it off. I shop for most of my stuff on Amazon anyway. I hate going shopping.

The interesting thing here where I live in Germany has been the transition within restaurants from traditional sit-down establishments to takeout or delivery. I picked up at a Sushi place the other day and it was crazy busy. It's also nice here because you can order alcohol and get it delivered as well. I don't think you can do that in the US.

#69 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-11 06:38 AM | Reply

It's also nice here because you can order alcohol and get it delivered as well. I don't think you can do that in the US.

Depends on state laws. Here you can't period full stop. Some places you can get beer and wine and I have heard that postmates will deliver liquor in some places. Here even if I order online I have to have it delivered to a business then pick up there. I ordered some Hendricks Midsummer Solstice Gin online because you can't get it locally. I had to have it shipped to my company. It kind of worked out though, because I got together with some folks at work and saved a ton on shipping. It was like 18 bucks shipping for one bottle but several of us ordering and splitting the shipping cost came to like 4 a bottle.

There was actually a big push to have the legislature amend the law but of course they were out of session and didn't want to call a special session due to social distancing (convenient way to dodge the issue in a state that still has dry counties) Not sure what bars are doing I suspect they will be pretty much wiped out.

#70 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-04-11 07:08 AM | Reply

One quick aside about our weekly unemployment numbers: It's doubtful that the US is only losing 6 million jobs per week these last couple of weeks. 6 million appears to be the limit of claims our states can process weekly, not the actual total of those seeking unemployment insurance.

Remember, states just went from processing roughly 200K claims weekly to 6 million - with a one week spike of 10 million likely before many states' systems became overwhelmed and some actually crashed or simply left millions of filers unable to file their claims.

American citizens are depending upon the federal government to keep them alive right now due to a pandemic no individual citizen can fight on their own outside of isolating themselves away from others. Everyone heard about the statistics that over 40% of Americans couldn't even put together $400 in case of an emergency and now record numbers of citizens are facing an immediate future with no jobs and no hope of normalcy returning for many weeks, if not months depending upon a microscopic virus that could potentially kill millions.

Normal is now a place in the past. Our new normal isn't yet clear, but we're on the way to it regardless.

#71 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-04-11 11:12 AM | Reply

I think Coronavirus is sort of silly. AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world.
#62 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Well, you couldn't "catch" AIDS just from going to an event were someone with AIDS was present, or from touching surfaces.

Unless everybody was engaging in risky sex and/or sharing needles they had no reason to fear it, thus "shutting the world" wasn't a solution to that particular problem.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments you've ever tried to make.

#72 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2020-04-11 01:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- I think Coronavirus is sort of silly.

That word "think" apparently doesn't mean what you "think" it means.

But then, that's not surprising coming from an empathy-free Randian.

#73 | Posted by Corky at 2020-04-11 01:08 PM | Reply

#73 Who makes a living bombing civilians,from high altitude.If he had empathy he would probably kill himself from the guilt he presently does'nt feel.So maybe it's best for him that he lacks it.

#74 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-11 02:19 PM | Reply

"I think Coronavirus is sort of silly. AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world.

HIV/AIDS still kills about 15,000 Americans a year.
Coronavirus killed 15,000 Americans last week.

Speaking of HIV/AIDS:
It took 15 years to come up with an effective treatment.
The death toll rose steadily year after year, peaking in 1995, at about 45,000 deaths.

Fifteen years later, there is still no HIV vaccine.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 03:33 PM | Reply

There may never be an effective covid19 vaccine either. Just something to keep us up at night.

#76 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-11 03:41 PM | Reply

"For me, and probably many others, the slight chance that I Might get sick, and the even slighter chance that I might die aren't worth living in isolation until someone comes and rescues me from COVID."

So why are you staying at home?
Just Following Orders?

For reasons you can't understand, when people get sick we try to save them.

So many will get so sick, it will give rise to a situation that even the ones who could be saved will surely die. The only way to mitigate that is social distancing.

Those are the people we're trying to save. The ones that will overload the system.

I understand you don't agree with the ideology of math, or with the ideology of trying to save sick people, but that's no excuse for not understanding why all this is happening.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 03:48 PM | Reply

"And they shouldn't be forced to follow your behavior because you are scared."

So if someone is scared they might get killed by a drunk driver, that's not a good enough reason to stop drunk driving.

Just listen to yourself, MadBomber.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 03:51 PM | Reply

He's a bug. Bugs don't have empathy. They eat, screw, sleep, go about their bugly business and die. They're simple,and so is he.

#79 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-11 03:55 PM | Reply

I think Coronavirus is sort of silly. AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world.
#62 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Because we didn't care if those abominable people committing abominations died from the wrath of Gawd?

For nearly 800 people who die each day from Covid-19 complications in New York City it is not a silly over reaction at all. It is their reality. Or more accurately it is the end of their reality.

#80 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-04-11 04:27 PM | Reply

"AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world."

We shut the bath houses where HIV was spread.
We instituted needle exchanges to reduce a vector by which HIV was spread.

I take it you opposed both of those actions too.
You have a death cult mentality.
It's fitting, since you kill people for a living.

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 05:34 PM | Reply

Smoking kills a lot of people.
Any guesses why we've spent decades trying to stop it?

They banned smoking in the military.
Why do you continue working for such a fascist organization, MadBomber?

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 05:43 PM | Reply

Why do you continue working for such a fascist organization, MadBomber?

#82 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-04-11 05:43 PM | FLAG: I would guess that because there, one does not have to work alongside with many of your ilk : )

#83 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-04-11 05:53 PM | Reply

Except he did, when I was a defense contractor and civilian employee of the Department of Defense.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 05:58 PM | Reply

What's your reason, MSgt?
Easier to carry a gun than a sack of concrete?

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 05:59 PM | Reply

AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world.

HIV is transmitted through sexual fluids and blood.

COVID 19 spreads through the air.

I'm sure you're a doctor in Honduras.

But, here in the real world.

You're an idiot.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-11 06:14 PM | Reply

What's your reason, MSgt?
Easier to carry a gun than a sack of concrete?

#85 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-04-11 05:59 PM | FLAG: Have done both in my life as not one-dimensional as apparently you are.

#87 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-04-11 07:55 PM | Reply

"Have done both in my life as not one-dimensional as apparently you are."

Sure, MSgt.
A cultured man such as yourself, you like both kinds: Country and Western.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-11 09:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#88 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-04-11 09:05 PM | FLAG: Get it right guy, It's Rock, Blues and Jazz, with a little classical thrown in when we want to relax.

#89 | Posted by MSgt at 2020-04-11 11:34 PM | Reply

I think Coronavirus is sort of silly. AIDS killed a lot more people and we didn't shut the world.
#62 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Ohhhh that's a painfully bad thing to say.

#90 | Posted by jpw at 2020-04-12 01:12 AM | Reply

"So why are you staying at home? Just Following Orders?"

Actually, I am following orders. Which are not to stay home, but to go into work.

For me, the biggest change in my daily routine is that I work out in my home gym instead of going to an actual gym.

"So if someone is scared they might get killed by a drunk driver, that's not a good enough reason to stop drunk driving."

That's not the best analogy.

A better analogy would be if the government banned private transportation out of the fear that someone would drive drunk or be killed by someone who was.

#91 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 05:23 AM | Reply

"The only way to mitigate that is social distancing."

Uh huh.

I have to wear a mask at the grocery store and at work. I don't mind. I don't mind staying two meters away from my closest co-worker. All that stuff is pretty easy.

What I do mind is the government telling someone that they're going to have to endure poverty out of the concern that someone else might get sick. Instead of quarantining those who are at little to no risk of injury or death, we isolate those who are? It seems like it would be pretty easy to identify a set of indicators that would highlight someone for quarantine. There are lots of old military based that could be used as sterile quarantine locations, and there are plenty of available airliners that could be used to transport these at-risk individuals?

Dontcha think that makes a little more sense than isolating everyone as opposed to those who are at risk?

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 05:29 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"They banned smoking in the military."

When? Saturday?

Because they were smoking on Friday when I was at work.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 05:30 AM | Reply

#86

If you want to hide in your house for the rest of your years, I say more power to you.

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 05:31 AM | Reply

Republicl0wns need to accept it that what they resist persists and the more they resist the more it persists. Not only did "liberals" get the government to go socialist... we will get full medical for all before the fat lady coughs on this one.

Seriously when I think of all the "liberal" agendas they have fought and railed against over the last 5 decades ... civil rights, ending conscription, EOE, right to choose, marriage rights... we got them.... got them all. Bernie didn't even get elected and already the nation was compelled to abandon the "free market principals" again... (like an errant son we bail out over and over).... and mark my word universal health is on its way.

Suck it republicl0wns... those conservatron values you cling to are inefficient and useless in the modern world. Over and over again.

#95 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-04-12 07:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Billionaires don't make their money, we do.

The way they are pushing us to get back to work proves it.

#96 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2020-04-12 08:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What I do mind is the government telling someone that they're going to have to endure poverty...
#92 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

So you agree they really need to up those stimulus checks to the lower income folks.

#97 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-04-12 09:20 AM | Reply

Billionaires don't make their money, we do.
The way they are pushing us to get back to work proves it.
#96 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

It's amazing how all those so-important CEOs can't just run these businesses by themselves.

It's always fascinating to me how no one barely notices when the boss doesn't show up, but let a janitor or driver call out and all panic ensues.

#98 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-04-12 09:24 AM | Reply

#92 If you isolate,everyone, over time immunity is built universally because the isolation is never total and isn't meant to be.
If you only isolate the weaker populations, those people become permanent,"bubble people"" who can never leave their cloister's until a vaccine is found which could be never.
Besides it makes them a vulnerable target for mistreatment as a " nuisance" population over time and could lead to human rights problems over time given humanity's tendency to become abusive to minority and defenseless populations over time.
Over all it is a piss poor idea,in my opinion
TRY HARDER.

#99 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-12 10:12 AM | Reply

" think that makes a little more sense than isolating everyone as opposed to those who are at risk?"

Think about it from the perspective of how we pay for healthcare.

The economy.

We have to balance the loss of human life if we ignore (to some degree) this virus against the loss of human life if we shut our economy down.

I will have to cite it but I'm sure there is a correlation to unemployment and mortality.

I'm sure some very smart people are discussing how to ease our way back to normal (or something close to normal)

#100 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-12 10:21 AM | Reply

news.yale.edu

"Economic growth is the single most important factor relating to length of life," said principal investigator M. Harvey Brenner, visiting professor in the Global Health Division of the Department of Epidemiology and Public Health at Yale School of Medicine."

#101 | Posted by eberly at 2020-04-12 10:26 AM | Reply

Herd immunity, will get us there eventually.
If we go back to normal too soon?
Can you live with millions of deaths?
Some of them could be your friends,loved ones,even yourself, if the bug jumps on you.
Eventually we will have to eat these losses if no vaccine is developed
Just get it over with now. You first.

#102 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-12 10:31 AM | Reply

"The way they are pushing us to get back to work proves it."

Then don't go back to work. Pitch out to Alkaska. Hunt. Start a garden.

You can protect yourself from both billionaires and someone who might be carrying COVID.

If you want to stay isolated for the rest of your life, cool. Just don't expect those who don't to pay your bills.

#103 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 10:31 AM | Reply

"If you only isolate the weaker populations, those people become permanent,"bubble people"" who can never leave their cloister's until a vaccine is found which could be never."

And that's the decision they would have to make. Isolate themselves from the rest of the population, or interact and take the risk.

My dad's at very high risk. He's 74. he's got a bad heart. And he's got zero ----- to give about COVID. He'd rather continue life as normal rather than quarantine in the hopes that someday finds a remedy. And I don't know of any older person who would want their kids and grandkids to become impoverished so as they might be able to squeeze out another year or two before dying of something else.

My stepmother died several years ago of pancreatic cancer. She had money for treatment, but in the end she basically just chose to die. She didn't believe that spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to try and squeeze in another year wasn't worth the cost.

#104 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 10:37 AM | Reply

#103 The government pays your bills, same as everyone not rich right now. What's the difference. You said you're already back to work.

#105 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-12 10:37 AM | Reply

"Instead of quarantining those who are at little to no risk of injury or death, we isolate those who are? It seems like it would be pretty easy to identify a set of indicators that would highlight someone for quarantine."

It's called testing. Without testing we have no idea where the enemy is. So just we just shoot in all directions? It's like trying to predict where a storm is headed without a weather radar or satellites.

Our federal government has failed us miserably. We were left completely undefended. So we all have to go to our rooms until Uncle Sam sobers up and develops the proper tests so we know who to isolate and treat.

It's not up to You or Trumpy to "open the country". The virus is in charge.

#106 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-04-12 10:49 AM | Reply

Roxy @roxydavis99

Dr Fauci: 10k Americans dead, disproportionately killing African Americans & Latinos.

Trump: Alright, everyone back to to work. Can't kill the economy for a few lives.
9:04 AM Apr 12, 2020

#107 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-04-12 10:56 AM | Reply

"#103 The government pays your bills, same as everyone not rich right now. What's the difference. You said you're already back to work."

Yeah, that's kinda my point dude. Sort of. The difference being that I am one of the few people employed by the DoD who is working. Most have been told to stay home until further notice.

But not everyone has a job that is going to provide a paycheck regardless of whether one does or doesn't work. These measures are probably survivable for a month or two, but beyond that even wealthy people will begin to feel the squeeze. And if you make $15 a month and all of the sudden go to $0 a month, a check for $1200 isn't going to cut it.

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 11:04 AM | Reply

"It's called testing. Without testing we have no idea where the enemy is. So just we just shoot in all directions?"

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. The vast majority of people who contract COVID will find it to be a minor nuisance, if anything. So why go to extreme measures to protect them? Instead, identify key indicators that could be used to narrow down who is at greatest risk and isolate them.

Testing is fine, but there are temporal limitations to it's effectiveness. I had my wife tested several weeks ago. She showed up negative. That only means she was negative at that moment. She could have contracted it at any point after the test, rendering that test useless for anything other than providing her condition at that moment.

Maybe someone will come up with a test system where people could be tested daily or continuously monitored, but barring that I see testing as being limited in it's ability to effectively slow the spread.

If they could develop some sort of continuous monitoring...why limit it to COVID? Maybe that will be one of the revolutionary outcomes of this event.

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 11:11 AM | Reply

"10k Americans dead, disproportionately killing African Americans & Latinos."

If, as predicted, 61K people die of COVID, the number will be not quite twice the number of people who die in Automobile accidents.

Should Trump (or Biden) be calling for restrictions of private transportation?

#110 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-12 11:14 AM | Reply

You just don't get it. We're talking about public health. Should we do away with water treatment plants because they're too expensive?
Common good is just that,everyone has to play.
No exceptions. After being cleared with a proper antibody test people could be let out to.play more freely.
What if your wife had been positive? Would you have felt good about her ten Mile walks then?
Or her mingling unmasked with old people at the store?
The world is more than just the "healthy", part of out humanity comes from helping people less able or aware than ourselves.
Soldiers never leave wounded comrades behind unless they are being annihilated,sometimes not even then. This is one martial virtue I support, would you leave your buddies behind to get back to the mess for hot chow?

#111 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-04-12 02:00 PM | Reply

"If, as predicted, 61K people die of COVID, the number will be not quite twice the number of people who die in Automobile accidents."

Are COVID deaths accidents too, or could any have been prevented?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-12 04:14 PM | Reply

A better analogy would be if the government banned private transportation out of the fear that someone would drive drunk or be killed by someone who was.
#91 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

No need for analogy.

The truth is government heavily regulates private transportation, i.e. driving on public roads, and the primary reason for this regulation is to ensure the smooth operation of commerce, up to and including the safety of the consumers, who generate 70% of economic activity in America.

So the government is still doing that, you're just too predictably stubborn to allow yourself to see it that way.

I'm surprised you haven't trotted out the Ben Franklin quote, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Because in your way of thinking, "liberty" means people with disease have a right to spared disease.
You think a person's right to swing their diseased fist does not end at your own nose.
Strange that you continue to wear the uniform of a government you do not believe in.
Are you a slave? You act like one.

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-12 04:48 PM | Reply

So, my question is will any of the mass ovens be named after MB?

#114 | Posted by Corky at 2020-04-12 06:00 PM | Reply

If the order came down to drop a nuke on NYC to stop the spread of the virus, that's what people like MadBomber are for.

He's been waiting his whole life for that order.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-04-12 06:10 PM | Reply

If you want to hide in your house for the rest of your years, I say more power to you.
#94 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

No, no.

You brought up the difference in response to hiv and covid19.

I explained the difference in the way the viruses spread being the factor

You can't suddenly cry and change goalposts.

I mean. You did. But. Like I said. You're an idiot.

#116 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-04-13 01:26 AM | Reply

"Because in your way of thinking, "liberty" means people with disease have a right to spared disease."

I'm going to assume you mean spread disease, not spared disease. Or spared from disease.

And I'm not a prosecutor, but I think that if you intentionally engage in activity knowing you have COVID (or anything else) and can spread the disease, you can get in trouble. There have been a couple of cases of people coughing on stuff in grocery stores. Those people went to jail.

But that's not what's happening here. You're treating everyone as if they have the disease, and demanding they limit their activity. For the sake of a very small percentage of the population. So I'll ask again, why not just isolate them?

#117 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-13 03:36 AM | Reply

Should we do away with water treatment plants because they're too expensive?"

If water treatment was achieved by isolating every person, then hell yes.

If you're not working, there would be no water to buy.

#118 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-13 03:38 AM | Reply

"If the order came down to drop a nuke on NYC to stop the spread of the virus, that's what people like MadBomber are for."

That's an interesting statement coming from someone who seems willing to disable or severely disrupt civilization out of fear of COVID. The position I've taken is pretty much the exact opposite.

#119 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-13 04:02 AM | Reply

"He'd rather continue life as normal rather than quarantine in the hopes that someday finds a remedy."

And is he willing to infect others, innocents, along the way? Or does he get to pretend it's all about him, and no one else?

" I think that if you intentionally engage in activity knowing you have COVID (or anything else) and can spread the disease, you can get in trouble. "

What if you know you can be an asymptomatic carrier? Does that matter, or does willful ignorance excuse someone's purposeful actions?

#120 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-04-13 04:03 AM | Reply

"And is he willing to infect others, innocents, along the way? Or does he get to pretend it's all about him, and no one else?"

He (or she) would only be willing to infect others if the others opened themselves up to it. Just like he (or she) could only become infected by engaging in activities that exposed them to the risk.

if I sit at home, don't go anywhere, don't accept any visitors or delivery people, I'm quite safe from any sort of virus.

"What if you know you can be an asymptomatic carrier? Does that matter, or does willful ignorance excuse someone's purposeful actions?"

An asymptomatic carrier is a not-sick person. And again, if you're scared of those people, then stay home. Or go through life in a biohazard suit. It doesn't really matter to me.

#121 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-04-13 10:50 AM | Reply

Trumpy wants to hurry up and get back to his normal level of lying.

All this Truth and Consequences is so annoying.

#122 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-04-13 11:03 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2020 World Readable

Drudge Retort