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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, May 02, 2020

Richard Orange: Swedes bristle as the world depicts the country as "playing Russian roulette" by not enacting a draconian coronavirus lockdown and by pursuing a herd immunity strategy that's supposedly only considered elsewhere by wild-eyed mavericks. That's just not how Sweden thinks of itself.

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Another view, which I had in my queue to post, but didn't get to it yet... :)

WHO lauds lockdown-ignoring Sweden as a model' for countries going forward
nypost.com

...The World Health Organization lauded Sweden as a "model" for battling the coronavirus as countries lift lockdowns -- after the nation controversially refused restrictions.

Dr. Mike Ryan, the WHO's top emergencies expert, said Wednesday there are "lessons to be learned" from the Scandinavian nation, which has largely relied on citizens to self-regulate.

"I think there's a perception out that Sweden has not put in control measures and just has allowed the disease to spread," Ryan told reporters. "Nothing can be further from the truth."

Ryan noted that instead of lockdowns, the country has "put in place a very strong public policy around social distancing, around caring and protecting people in long-term care facilities."

"What it has done differently is it has very much relied on its relationship with its citizenry and the ability and willingness of its citizens to implement self-distancing and self-regulate," Ryan said. "In that sense, they have implemented public policy through that partnership with the population."

He said the country also ramped up testing and had adequate capacity in hospitals to handle any outbreaks....


There's that "testing" thing again....


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-05-02 07:33 PM | Reply

In essence, we are ALL running a herd immunity experiment. The goal of social distancing and stay at home orders was so that we didn't all come down with COVID at the same time and overwhelm the healthcare system. Our elected officials saw what happened in Italy, where medical professionals had to decide who lived and died because they lacked ventilator capacity. Since a vaccine is probably at least another year and probably closer to three years away, we will all eventually get this virus. Some, like my friends at work, a couple who were exposed by the husband's parents, had an easy time with COVID, one day of uncomfortable breathing, and two days with a scratchy throat, but they are both fitness fanatics who go on 30-mile weekend hikes for fun. His dad on the other hand spent two weeks in the hospital on oxygen. From what I've seen, almost every state is still increasing in daily number of Coronavirus patients, that plus a continuing lack of testing capacity means its still to early to "re-open" the economy. I predict hospitals in urban centers in GA will be overwhelmed in three weeks.

#2 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-05-02 08:27 PM | Reply

@#2 ... they are both fitness fanatics who go on 30-mile weekend hikes for fun ...

There was a fitness fanatic and instructor here in CT who got the virus and died. He was 32 years old.

Not wanting to disagree with what you say, but to amplify it.

My overall point is that this virus is still "new" and that we do not know the virus. We are at the point where we are becoming acquainted with it. But we do not know it.

For example, just this past week I saw reports that the medical professionals "on the front lines" have noticed that some patients do better in the hospitals if they are on placed on their stomachs in bed instead of on their backs. They seem to be able to breathe more easily.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-05-02 08:44 PM | Reply

@#3 ... that some patients do better in the hospitals if they are on placed on their stomachs in bed instead of on their backs. ...

And, btw, as a further comment on this, something that crossed my thought process this afternoon....

How many times, when you visit a hospital do you see patients lying on their stomachs in the hospital beds?

With that in mind, do we congratulate the person who decided to flip the person over to ~see if that helps~ or do we chastise the person for taking an unnecessary risk?


#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-05-02 09:02 PM | Reply

For example, just this past week I saw reports that the medical professionals "on the front lines" have noticed that some patients do better in the hospitals if they are on placed on their stomachs in bed instead of on their backs. They seem to be able to breathe more easily.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-05-02 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I saw this covered on MSNBC two or three weeks ago. I saw an ER doc say they were having more success in keeping more patients off vents by getting them off their backs, which puts pressure on the lungs, and putting them on their side or stomach and them giving them oxygen.

Also, I know some young healthy people have died from COVID, but the vast majority of the fatalities have been older with comorbidities. Of the people I know, the couple I mentioned were the folks who would most likely have an easy time, they are super healthy and super fit. Even though he's 53 my friend is more fit than most 30-year-olds. During defensive tactics training he often rolls with the young guys and wins.

#5 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-05-03 12:26 AM | Reply

@#5

Yup.

As we (mainly, the medical community) learn more about this virus, we will also learn more to help us fight it.

There was an 18-year-old locally who just passed away.

I am saying that we are in the learning stage here.

Yeah, we are starting to see some patterns, but we should not exaggerate those patterns beyond the uncertainty of the statistical data we gather.

We still have much to learn.



#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-05-03 02:44 AM | Reply

There is NO "herd immunity" until a vaccine is developed.

#7 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-05-03 10:06 AM | Reply

I read this a while ago concerning lying on one's front to enhance lung function:

metro.co.uk

#8 | Posted by Foreigner at 2020-05-03 10:44 AM | Reply

Initial antibodies are produced within 4 to 8 weeks after contraction. Proper longer-term immunity antibodies require three to four months for adequate replication. so long as everyone is exposed to the same variant exposure of everyone is a manner of acquiring natural population immunity.

#9 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-05-03 08:20 PM | Reply

The article states (accurately) The death rate has soared far above those of its more heavily locked down Nordic neighbours, standing"as I write"at roughly triple that of Denmark and six times that of Norway and Finland. At one point, it looked like the curve was stabilising, but as the weeks ground on, Tegnell conceded it had now reached "a higher level."

Graphs for those that want to see:
ourworldindata.org
ourworldindata.org

So the gamble is clear. Sweden's strategy will pay off if there is no vaccine, or the vaccine doesn't work, and there are no good drugs to treat COVID-19. Otherwise people died that didn't need to.

If there is an effective vaccine then the correct strategy will be the one that Sweden's neighbors implemented.

Side note on #9:
Where are you getting the 4 to 8 week thing?
Flu shot protection takes 2 weeks.
Typhoid (oral) 2 weeks, injected, 7 days.
Flu shots last about 6 months. Typhoid about 2 years, depending.

#10 | Posted by YAV at 2020-05-03 08:50 PM | Reply

Imo the real gamble is that those developing the first antibodies need to survive. Covid triggers inflammatory responses, some painful, others seriously compromising. The toe lesions now have an explanation.

#11 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-05-04 12:53 AM | Reply

Quite frankly, we're also doing nothing.

#12 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2020-05-04 12:49 PM | Reply

Imagine, a nation's population feeling
as if they are all just part of some
sick and twisted socioepidemic experimentation
by the wealthy and powerful...

Oh wait!
That's exactly how it feels here!

#13 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-05-04 02:39 PM | Reply

We still have much to learn.

#6 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

The first victim in any war is the truth.

Stay low brothers until we get to the truth of this one. It's a frocking pandemic.

Like any war the object for any individual should be just to get to the other side.

And bring as many as they can with them.

#14 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-04 02:51 PM | Reply

Sweden is already at the high end of deaths per capita.

#15 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-05-04 03:36 PM | Reply

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