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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, May 10, 2020

[I]is the public health situation really all that different than when lockdowns began in March? According to epidemiologists, no. Although the situation varies from place to place, now, in general, doesn't appear to be the best time for Americans to return to close proximity to one another. While the toll of the pandemic has been immense -- there have been more than 76,000 recorded deaths in the United States as of May 8 -- the vast majority of the population still has not been infected, has no immunity, and is fully susceptible.

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Epidemiologists' predictions for what will happen next are grim. "If we open up, and do exactly what we were doing in March, we're going to see a huge increase in cases," Eleanor Murray, an assistant professor of epidemiology at the Boston University School of Public Health, says. "We'll go back to that same exponential trajectory."

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It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

How bad it gets depends directly on how we respond.

#1 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-10 02:52 PM | Reply

There was always going to be a spike. The plan was to flatten the curve in order to reduce impact on hospital infrastructure. It wasn't to hide in our houses until Bill Gates can shoot a couple loads into you two years from now, which would be a first anyway because there's never been a human coronavirus vaccine. Nor was the virus going to magically disappear from people staying home.

Sooner or later there will be a spike. You'd rather have it in July than December. You want to be in a field hospital in Wisconsin in December?

#2 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2020-05-10 02:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

These are scientists... what do they know about re-electing Trump?

You people need to get your priorities in order!

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2020-05-10 04:00 PM | Reply

#2 Wrong. Several countries are at the stage of no new infections. With good testing, tracing and isolation, they can open up without a spike.

All it took was wisdom and disciple. Things that are rare in the US.

#4 | Posted by bored at 2020-05-10 04:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The U.S. is Reopening Too Soon"

Trump seems to think his poll numbers in May matter more than his poll numbers in November.
That's the only sensible explanation I've got for not waiting a few more weeks.
Anyone else got any ideas?

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-10 04:47 PM | Reply

They. Don't. give.a.schitt. how about that.

#6 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-05-10 05:51 PM | Reply

Great! Lots more job down to the local slaughterhouse for all those loudmouths raisin' hell at the statehouse. Third shift, $9/hour, making 480 cuts with a boning knife every night, no benefits, and if you get sick or hurt on the job, its on you...

#7 | Posted by catdog at 2020-05-10 06:22 PM | Reply

So interesting that Trump is eager to preside over a recession for four more years.

I guess, as long as it's he who presides over it, that's all that matters.

F' the rest of us, eh?

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-10 06:26 PM | Reply

There was always going to be a spike. The plan was to flatten the curve in order to reduce impact on hospital infrastructure.

The curve won't be flat any more after we reopen. We are likely experience the same kind of outbreak that led us to shut everything down in the first place.

Sooner or later there will be a spike. You'd rather have it in July than December.

It's not an either/or situation. Having a spike now doesn't stop one from happening in December.

#9 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-10 08:20 PM | Reply

Several countries are at the stage of no new infections. With good testing, tracing and isolation, they can open up without a spike.

We don't have testing and contact tracing ready to prevent another spike. The government hasn't even tried to have them ready. Instead it is just back in denial like it was in February -- doing very little and hoping for the best.

#10 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-10 08:22 PM | Reply

Death's hand starts to weave.

#11 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-05-10 11:13 PM | Reply

Sooner or later there will be a spike. You'd rather have it in July than December. You want to be in a field hospital in Wisconsin in December?
#2 | POSTED BY BEN_BERKKAKE

With proper testing and public health monitoring/intervention that isn't a foregone conclusion.

But it will be the way Trump is "handling" this.

#12 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-11 12:25 AM | Reply

So...somebody...anybody answer me. Why isn't protective gear ever considered as part of the solution. The government just gave everyone a bunch of money. For a fraction of what I received, I could purchase a kit that would keep me safe at a level far beyond what would be needed to stay safe from COVID. You do that, and you don't have to screw around with testing or monitoring...it's no longer a problem.

#13 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 04:51 AM | Reply

I don't understand the hysteria over reopening. Deaths in the US were only 750 on Sunday, the lowest since late March. We have a cyclical pattern of deaths with weekends lower jumping back up on Mondays. But, the pattern is unmistakable. We are having lower highs and lower lows despite the re-opening.

Also, I think Trump's strategy of not pushing for more aid is pretty easy to understand. With the re-opening, the predominately red states will recover economically while the predominately blue states will continue to stay closed. This will draw the ire of the population even if deaths creep up a bit. The point of the shutdowns was to flatten the curve to avoid the hospital system from collapsing. That has been accomplished. If you want to wait until a vaccine is available before opening back up, you may never open back up. Also, based on Sweden where most assume they are getting close to herd immunity, we are almost at the same point. The big unknown is the actual numbers of infected but if you assume the US survival rate is similar to Swedes, we should expect around 100,000 deaths at which point we will have herd immunity. This next week is critical. If there is no spike in deaths, the fear mongering is going to be forced to end.

#14 | Posted by expatvn at 2020-05-11 08:14 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Why isn't protective gear ever considered as part of the solution.

Anything I've ever read on hierarchy of controls puts PPE as the last resort.

#15 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-05-11 08:57 AM | Reply

"100,000 deaths"

"the fear mongering is going to be forced to end"

#14 | Posted by expatvn at 2020-05-11 08:14 AM | Reply

I'm wondering if you can identify the strangeness in your remark?

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 08:57 AM | Reply

"we should expect around 100,000 deaths at which point we will have herd immunity"

#14 | Posted by expatvn

I haven't heard any scientist say that.

How about 250,000 deaths? Will you be saying that next month?

Allowing other people to die has been the Trumpite solution to this from the very start.

#17 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 09:00 AM | Reply

Deaths in the US were only 750 on Sunday, the lowest since late March.

Deaths today reflect what we were doing three weeks ago. The recent reopenings will have a lag before we see what the consequences are.

Sweden is not near herd immunity. That would be 60% of its population. At most the city of Stockholm has 20-25%.

The country is also partially closed. It's not just allowing all life as normal.

In the U.S., getting to herd immunity without a vaccine could mean 1 million deaths.

#18 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 10:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Deaths in the US were only 750 on Sunday, the lowest since late March."

As Cuomo has pointed out, the weekend death rates are the least reliable, and that's why you sometimes see a spike in deaths early in the week. Not saying that will happen here, but it has happened in the past. Also, this chart shows yesterday's death rate as +878, but be that as it may, RCade is right:

"Deaths today reflect what we were doing three weeks ago. The recent reopenings will have a lag before we see what the consequences are."

You can see by this chart how much new cases have spiked in recent days as partial re-openings are taking place:

bing.com

We will know in about a month the effects re-openings have had on the spread of CV in terms of both new cases and daily deaths.

#19 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 10:48 AM | Reply

"This also aligns with NYC's rapid drop in cases which is caused by herd immunity and not social distancing."

So, social distancing had nothing to do with it?

#21 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 10:52 AM | Reply

So, social distancing had nothing to do with it?

60% of NYC infections are from in the home. So, the short answer is no.

#22 | Posted by expatvn at 2020-05-11 11:03 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The link to Judith Curry has been removed.

Curry is not an epidemiologist. She's a climate scientist who has become aligned with the Koch Brothers and has established a dodgy record of supporting climate deniers.

There are no epidemiologists who are saying herd immunity is acquired at 23.6%.

Don't post false pandemic misinformation here. It's dangerous and will cost peoples' lives.

#23 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 11:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"60% of NYC infections are from in the home. So, the short answer is no."

Here's the thing, no one is literally staying at home for 2 months without outside contact. If people aren't going out to grocery stores, they are having someone bring them groceries and/or they are getting take out.

#24 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 11:07 AM | Reply

Sweden is approaching herd immunity as seen in their declining numbers in both deaths and hospitalizations

#20 | Posted by expatvn

You think that the one proves the other?

Would you be willing to consider other correlations?

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 11:11 AM | Reply

60% of NYC infections are from in the home.

#22 | Posted by expatvn at

How does it get into homes?

#26 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 11:13 AM | Reply

As to the 60%, you are using the debunked Imperial College infection model. Debunked by actual deaths and not by opinion.

--------.
And 60% is on the optimistic and possible end. 70% is a safer bet. Herd immunity is a function of the R0 number and the susceptible population. It's a calculation.

Your spout garbage and pretend you understand. Clearly you are confident in your propagation of lies and misinformation.

#28 | Posted by YAV at 2020-05-11 11:13 AM | Reply

Trump and Trumpites have worked with true fanaticism to convince the nation that a few hundred thousand newly dead Americans is not any big deal.

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 11:16 AM | Reply

Here's the thing, no one is literally staying at home for 2 months without outside contact.

Millions of Americans are staying home except for necessary trips to the grocery store and the like.

#30 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 11:17 AM | Reply

So...somebody...anybody answer me. Why isn't protective gear ever considered as part of the solution. The government just gave everyone a bunch of money. For a fraction of what I received, I could purchase a kit that would keep me safe at a level far beyond what would be needed to stay safe from COVID.

Well for one thing, the US has a shortage of PPE such that nurses and doctors can't even always get it, so i'm not sure how you propose 330,000,000 people should suddenly go out and buy a "kit."

Secondly, as has been pointed out to you, PPE is not a substitute for keeping people away from one another for a variety of reasons. People don't all know how to wear it correctly. Some people outright refuse to wear it. And before you trot out the tired "that's on them" --------, you have been told many times that the people who voluntarily contract coronavirus don't go hide in a hole and die. They cough on food at my grocery store, they cough on nurses and doctors, etc etc etc.

#31 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-11 11:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#30 Yes, I fall into that category.

#32 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 11:24 AM | Reply

For a fraction of what I received, I could purchase a kit that would keep me safe at a level far beyond what would be needed to stay safe from COVID.

Wearing a mask in public is more about protecting others if you have coronavirus than protecting you from getting it.

If everybody wore masks in public it would end the pandemic much sooner.

#33 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 11:29 AM | Reply

I thought this blog post by a biology professor is worth reading

www.erinbromage.com

The takeaway for me: prolonged indoor social contact is the risk. The time factor being critical as well - being seated around people for an hour and half for dinner is much riskier than going into a large grocery store with a 'get-in-get-out' mission.

#34 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2020-05-11 11:39 AM | Reply

"Anything I've ever read on hierarchy of controls puts PPE as the last resort."

Really?

So the simplest, most effective method is the last resort?

It's like someone wants a ruined economy and dead people.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 12:01 PM | Reply

Well for one thing, the US has a shortage of PPE such that nurses and doctors can't even always get it, so i'm not sure how you propose 330,000,000 people should suddenly go out and buy a "kit."

I can buy a gas mask and a chem suit in seconds. But I don't need to. I'm not in the at-risk category. I really don't care if I catch it.

But, if I were at risk, it's really easy to go online and order a gas mask and a chem suit.

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 12:06 PM | Reply

"Secondly, as has been pointed out to you, PPE is not a substitute for keeping people away from one another for a variety of reasons."

If you're wearing the right kit, you don't need to stay from other people. Even if you are at risk.

"And before you trot out the tired "that's on them" --------, you have been told many times that the people who voluntarily contract coronavirus don't go hide in a hole and die. They cough on food at my grocery store, they cough on nurses and doctors, etc etc etc."

And???

Let them cough on your food. It's kinda on you to clean it once you purchase it anyways. Quit being lazy and expecting someone else to take care of you.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 12:08 PM | Reply

This isn't about what people or government leaders want. Either government and society does the things that stop the pandemic or we all pay the consequences of not stopping it.

#38 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 12:09 PM | Reply

"Wearing a mask in public is more about protecting others if you have coronavirus than protecting you from getting it."

I'm talking an M50 gas mask or equivalent. That gear is designed to protect the user, but it doesn't do anything to filter what someone might be exhaling. And I don't think everyone needs to wear them...it doesn't hurt anything if they do... [...]

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 12:10 PM | Reply

If you're wearing the right kit, you don't need to stay from other people. Even if you are at risk.

There is no kit that does this. Even doctors and nurses in the best PPE sometimes get coronavirus.

People in a mask still should keep their distance from other people in public. Someone could expel the virus for a few feet in droplets just by talking.

#40 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Madbomber: It is untrue that the "vast majority" has little to fear from coronavirus. Just because the elderly and people with comorbidities are dying more frequently doesn't mean the rest of the public is not at significant risk of becoming seriously ill or dying.

#41 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 12:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I really don't care if I catch it."

The view changes when on a ventilator.

#42 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-11 12:14 PM | Reply

So the simplest, most effective method is the last resort?

Yes. Isolating the hazard via engineering and/or administrative controls are preferred.

#43 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-05-11 12:18 PM | Reply

"There is no kit that does this. Even doctors and nurses in the best PPE sometimes get coronavirus."

The nurses and doctors are wearing protective clothing that is little different than what the rest of us are wearing.

But, if the healthcare providers were wearing an M50 gas mask and hazmat coveralls, there would be almost no possibility of contracting the virus.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 12:21 PM | Reply

I can buy a gas mask and a chem suit in seconds. But I don't need to. I'm not in the at-risk category. I really don't care if I catch it.
#36 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You mean, you don't care if you spread it.
And that's the bigger issue.
Since the virus can't spread itself.
Only infected people can spread it.

It's also what makes you Deplorable.

As I said the other day,
If MadBomber isn't getting paid to spread fake news, it's impossible to tell.
#15 | POSTED BY SNOOFY
drudge.com

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-11 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The nurses and doctors are wearing protective clothing that is little different than what the rest of us are wearing.

This is not true. When it is available to them they look like this:

www.dailyherald.com

#46 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 01:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Would you be willing to consider other correlations?"

Since we are talking about NYC, I'd like to know if the stay-at-home infections might be related to ventilation systems in high rise apartment buildings:

Lehman study: Coronavirus can spread through ventilation systems
Posted April 12, 2020

Keeping six feet away has become the accepted norm for social distancing. But two physicists at Lehman College say the virus that causes COVID-19 can be spread in other ways too--like a building's ventilation system.

riverdalepress.com

It would be interesting to know what the stay-at-home infection rate is in rural and suburban areas of the state where people tend to live in single homes or smaller multi-unit buildings. Even if air isn't being circulated between apartments, it probably is being re-circulated in elevators, hallways and mail rooms, etc.

#47 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 02:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I read this article recently and can't testify to its accuracy, but I'm posting it because I think it demonstrates how so much about the virus is still unknown and needs to be investigated:

EARLY PRECAUTIONS DRAW A LIFE-AND-DEATH DIVIDE BETWEEN FLUSHING AND CORONA

Both are high-density areas with similar socioeconomic profiles. They're linked by the usually crowded No. 7 train.

Yet when it comes to COVID-19, the differences between the neighborhoods couldn't be more stark.

Corona emerged as the early epicenter of the outbreak in New York City and shows no sign of slowing down. Meanwhile, the rate of test-confirmed positive cases of the virus among Flushing residents has remained among the lowest in the five boroughs.

The divergent impact of the virus in two similar neighborhoods suggests that low incomes and poor access to health care alone do not predicate the virus's damage, public health experts say.

The divide between Corona and Flushing also highlights a striking possibility: that early measures many Flushing residents, workers and businesses took to protect themselves--during crucial weeks while city and state government held back--may have made a difference.


thecity.nyc

#48 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 02:19 PM | Reply

"Deaths in the US were only 750 on Sunday, the lowest since late March."

According to the CDC:

Last updated on May 10, 2020

TOTAL CASES
1,300,696
26,660 New Cases*

TOTAL DEATHS
78,771
1,737 New Deaths*

www.cdc.gov

#49 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-11 02:31 PM | Reply

Alas, too late. If we had only a competent leadership and a Senate with even 1% morality...

#50 | Posted by e1g1 at 2020-05-11 02:58 PM | Reply

Swedem

Why do people keep comparing anything to Sweden?

Sweden's position was to simply let it kill the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions.

The doctor leading their COVID-19 response who advocated not shutting down has come out now and said it may have been a mistake.

The infection and death rates continue to climb. They have not peaked yet. And this is with a population far healthier than us.

And they have more infections and deaths per capita than their immediate neighbors.

#51 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-05-11 03:50 PM | Reply

"You mean, you don't care if you spread it."

I could only spread it to people who didn't care if they caught it. If I did know I had it, I would stay home. But you don't shut down the entire planet because someone might have it. Like I've said over...and over...and over...it's up to those at risk to isolate themselves. It's NOT up to those not at risk to isolate themselves so those at risk don't have to take precautions.

If I were a 90 year old obese person with diabetes, I would just assume that everyone was a potential carrier and take the steps necessary to protect myself. And I wouldn't expect someone else to do that for me. But, you're a progressive. Personal responsibility is not really your thing.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-11 03:55 PM | Reply

MadBomber: You're still laboring under a lot of misconceptions about this pandemic.

People spread it before they know they have it. Some people never have symptoms and spread it.

People in nursing homes are isolated and they still are getting it and dying from it. People who are like you are bringing it to them because they don't think getting it is a problem for themselves.

You at at risk, just like everybody else, of getting this thing and giving it to multiple people.

#53 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 04:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I could only spread it to people who didn't care if they caught it. If I did know I had it, I would stay home. But you don't shut down the entire planet because someone might have it. Like I've said over...and over...and over...it's up to those at risk to isolate themselves. It's NOT up to those not at risk to isolate themselves so those at risk don't have to take precautions.
If I were a 90 year old obese person with diabetes, I would just assume that everyone was a potential carrier and take the steps necessary to protect myself. And I wouldn't expect someone else to do that for me. But, you're a progressive. Personal responsibility is not really your thing.

#52 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

What the F are you talking about?

IF you knew you had it, you would stay at home? That's a HUGE IF.

And its easy to spread it to people who take care. The mask limits your ability to spread it but are no where near 100%. They only limit the EASIEST way to spread it.

Furthermore EVERYONE is at risk. You are at HIGHER risk with age and pre-existing conditions. But the Coronavirus is also causing death and long term health issues for people who were young and otherwise healthy.

And of course even if a young healthy person gets it and doesn't get seriously ill, they can spread it to someone who is at risk without knowing.

Your stupidity puts people in danger of getting infected and puts them at risk of infecting others.

You have no clue what Personal Responsibility is and no one is surprised.

#54 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-05-11 04:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"MadBomber: You're still laboring under a lot of misconceptions about this pandemic."

Facts don't matter to him.
His only "labor" is to spread disinformation about the pandemic. [...]

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-11 04:17 PM | Reply

I can buy a gas mask and a chem suit in seconds. But I don't need to. I'm not in the at-risk category. I really don't care if I catch it.
But, if I were at risk, it's really easy to go online and order a gas mask and a chem suit.

Can you buy 330,000,00 of them? Because that's what you're proposing. Nobody cares if you can buy one. Go try to put 330,000,000 of them in your cart and report back, genius.

#56 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-11 05:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You could if Obama were still president and will be at the exact instant Biden is sworn in. All problems will wash away. In an instant.

#57 | Posted by visitor_ at 2020-05-11 05:10 PM | Reply

What do epidemiologists know? They're all corrupt, just like climatologists and all the other scientists!

My brother knows this guy whose cousin got a B in biology and posted on Facebook that you can only spread this if you're weak and don't carry a gun.

#58 | Posted by cbob at 2020-05-11 05:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You could if Obama were still president and will be at the exact instant Biden is sworn in. All problems will wash away. In an instant.

For 16 hours yesterday Trump sent so many tweets he averaged one every seven minutes.

Maybe we'd have a better pandemic response under Obama or Biden because we'd have a president who wasn't wasting all his time on Twitter and had more time to devote to the worst pandemic to hit the U.S. in 102 years.

#59 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-11 05:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#59
That's a pretty low bar, Rogers. Damned hard to argue!

#60 | Posted by cbob at 2020-05-11 06:56 PM | Reply

In response to Visitor's disingenuous post #57.

No one is saying "all problems will wash away in an instant" with Biden or Obama. It would be better, though, no doubt.

For that matter, no one is blaming the pandemic itself on Trump.

As Obama said, this would be tough for any president to deal with. But Trump's response was, and still is, terrible. He's essentially abdicated all responsibility, and the same complaints that were made early on have not been addressed. It's because he is weak and impotent.

#61 | Posted by cbob at 2020-05-11 07:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

All problems will wash away. In an instant.

#57 | Posted by visitor_ at 2020-05-11 05:10 PM | Reply

To save a drowning man, you first lift his face from the water.

That's what getting rid of Trump means.

#62 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 07:24 PM | Reply

It's because he (Trump)is weak and impotent.

#61 | Posted by cbob at 2020-05-11 07:10 PM

Yes.

He's a shell. His talent is oppressing others to personal benefit. There is nothing more in him than anger and vindictiveness.

#63 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-11 07:41 PM | Reply

"I could only spread it to people who didn't care if they caught it."

And those too young, or low in rank to choose.

Again, you clearly don't understand how this is spread via such a large window of asymptomatic contagion. You could be R8, for all you know.

#64 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-11 08:43 PM | Reply

I'm sick of seeing idiots like MADBOMBER blather on.

He's in the military, stationed in Germany. He's getting paid, regardless. A Trump apologist who's bound and determined to excuse Trump's horrible response to this pandemic. A pandemic he denied was even possible ... until it arrived here.

And MADBOMBER is isolated from this by his geographical location, in a country with competent leadership who are taking the right steps, unlike our incompetent narcissist-in-chief. A man-child who only cares about his poll numbers and reelection chances, incapable of empathy for others. That's who MADBOMBER is supporting.

#65 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-11 10:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm sick of seeing idiots like MADBOMBER blather on.

#65 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2020-05-11 10:23 PM | FLAG: "

Rcade created killfiles specifically for people like you. Use them and quit whining.

If you need a tutorial, I'll be glad to help you. I love helping people.

#66 | Posted by goatman at 2020-05-11 10:45 PM | Reply

"People who are like you are bringing it to them because they don't think getting it is a problem for themselves."

People like me have no business going to a nursing home. And quite honestly, management has no business letting people like me in.

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 01:45 AM | Reply

"You at at risk, just like everybody else, of getting this thing and giving it to multiple people."

Are we talking past each other or something? I could only give COVID to someone who was not properly protecting themselves from catching it. Just like I could only catch it if I wasn't protecting myself.

#68 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 01:46 AM | Reply

"The mask limits your ability to spread it but are no where near 100%. They only limit the EASIEST way to spread it."

With this little baby, you could go to nightclub full of COVID carriers.

"www.bing.com"

They cost between $330 and $360 dollars on the open market. A small chunk of that check the government just gave you. And it's almost certainly tax deductible.

#69 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 01:53 AM | Reply

"But the Coronavirus is also causing death and long term health issues for people who were young and otherwise healthy."

That's true, but at a very low rate. Well below 1% of those who are infected. The overall mortality rate is estimated to be between 1% and 2% at the moment, with 80% of fatalities being those over age 65 with pre-existing conditions. Which means that the under 65 numbers are between .2% and .4%. And those numbers are skewed the older you get.

For years I flew combat aircraft. Whether on a combat sortie or just flying a training mission, there is inherent risk. Unless COVID makes a radical change, it's a certainly that more aviators will die this year in aviation related incidents than will die from COVID. Using your logic, they should just stop flying all together, as doing so would reduce the mortality rate to zero. The point is that for those who are already conducting a risk calculus every day, COVID doesn't seem that scary. Especially when you consider how easy it is to protect yourself from it.

#70 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:10 AM | Reply

"Can you buy 330,000,00 of them? Because that's what you're proposing. Nobody cares if you can buy one. Go try to put 330,000,000 of them in your cart and report back, genius."

Why would you need 330,000,000? Maybe to give each of those at risk an extra 100 masks? Just in case?

#71 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:12 AM | Reply

"He's in the military, stationed in Germany. He's getting paid, regardless."

Everybody should be getting paid. They aren't because people like you support the government prohibiting them from going to work.

#72 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:14 AM | Reply

"A Trump apologist who's bound and determined to excuse Trump's horrible response to this pandemic."

Lemme stop you right here, Champ. I'm a lot of things...but a Trump support's not one of them.

#73 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:15 AM | Reply

"And those too young, or low in rank to choose. Again, you clearly don't understand how this is spread via such a large window of asymptomatic contagion. You could be R8, for all you know."

Sorta true. As a result of my job, I wasn't put into isolation. The vast majority of my co-workers were...but not me. But it didn't bother me. The numbers were on my side. Odds you would take in Vegas any day of the week.

#74 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:19 AM | Reply

"Maybe to give each of those at risk an extra 100 masks?"

Last time you gave your utterly uninformed opinion about who's really at risk, I posted a link from Kaiser Family Foundation that put the number of Americans at "serious risk" around 90 million, and then you walked away.

Can you do that again, or are you really here to maintain the Alternate Fact that it's merely a few million people in USA at serious risk?

Do you even accept the existence of serious risk that isn't also death?

What's the point of just lying all the time?
Do you think you get to have a point of view about who's really at risk that isn't supported by medicine?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:36 AM | Reply

Everybody should be getting paid. They aren't because people like you support the government prohibiting them from going to work.
#72 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Everybody who can collect unemployment right now is getting an extra $600 a week from CARES on top of whatever their state benefit is, through July 31, even if their State benefit is only like $118 a week, and even if they only work part time. Plenty of people are making more money on unemployment than they were before the pandemic hit.

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:41 AM | Reply

"I could only give COVID to someone who was not properly protecting themselves from catching it."

So like, unless you have a PAPR suit.
For readers who don't know what a PAPR suit it, you've probably seen doctors wearing one on TV, treating coronavirus patients. Along with gloves, masks, and knowing how to use all this equipment properly.
That's what you need to be wearing if you go in the room where the coronavirus patients are. Because it's an incurable disease with no vaccine and no treatment, and it's highly contagious as well.

I actually can't believe you can be this dumb.

As in, I don't believe it. I think you're lying. I think you're deliberately spreading disinformation about the danger of coronavirus and grossly understating the ease of spreading COVID-19 disease.

What's your reason for doing that, MadBomber?

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:49 AM | Reply

The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. (Okay, not if you count China's gulags)
That costs a fortune.
I say release all the prisoners and fire all the guards. I would get a big tax cut, and the number of people the ex-cons would kill would be small. People that feel at risk could shelter at home. Why should I pay to protect the weak?

#78 | Posted by bored at 2020-05-12 03:03 AM | Reply

The view changes when on a ventilator.
#42 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2020-05-11 12:14 PM

Statistically an extremely low chance. Stay in your basement for years if you'd like, eventually the world has to move on with or without you.

#79 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-05-12 04:43 AM | Reply

"Statistically an extremely low chance."

Signed,
81,795 people in America

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 04:47 AM | Reply

""I'm sick of seeing idiots like MADBOMBER blather on."

I just scroll past whenever I see it is one of his posts.

"Signed,
81,795 people in America"

Exactly.

#81 | Posted by danni at 2020-05-12 08:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

George Bush started two wars over far fewer deaths. BTW, I hate George Bush. I think he should be in prison for life. His cell mate should be Donald Trump.

#82 | Posted by danni at 2020-05-12 08:49 AM | Reply

Why would you need 330,000,000?

You're the ------- ------- who said we should have bought everyone PPE instead of giving them cash. Now you're questioning your own argument? Get a clue moron.

#83 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-12 09:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Statistically an extremely low chance"

Same thing folks say about audits... until it's them.

#84 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-12 10:47 AM | Reply

"Last time you gave your utterly uninformed opinion about who's really at risk, I posted a link from Kaiser Family Foundation that put the number of Americans at "serious risk" around 90 million, and then you walked away."

I responded. here it is again for you:

-->So...everyone with heart disease is going to be in some way brought down by COVID?

The problem with this study is that it does not quantify risk. They reference "greater" risk, or higher risk, but the study ising using the baseline they're being referenced against as a majority who will be asymptomatic or not require treatments.

And let's be clear, there is no group where the risk of death is zero. But if the probability of someone in a specific demographic dying of COVID is 1/50,000, then "greater" risk would be anything >1/50,000. But even if it's 1/1000, is that a solid enough reason for the government to order a lock-down? Or in the absence of a lock-down, choose to quarantine oneself? The latter is a determination that should be made by the individual, regardless of how much risk they may or may not face.

That's why I preferred to look at mortality rates, because it provides better truth data on who will die, rather than who might. Because we all might die from COVID, however unlikely.

#85 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:01 AM | Reply

"Everybody who can collect unemployment right now is getting an extra $600 a week from CARES on top of whatever their state benefit is, through July 31, even if their State benefit is only like $118 a week, and even if they only work part time. Plenty of people are making more money on unemployment than they were before the pandemic hit."

Untrue.

My state of residence is Idaho. If you made less than $54K while employed, you're making more now. More than $54k, you're making less.

#86 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:03 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Do you think you get to have a point of view about who's really at risk that isn't supported by medicine?"

Also untrue. My point comes from Dr.. David Katz at Yale, who says just what I've been saying. That those people at low risk should not be kept from working, while those at risk should be kept in isolation. Not sure if you ever step away from the Democracy Now or Mother Jones, but Smerconish has been talking about this a lot. In fact Chris Cuomo, who had the disease himself, has echoed this same point.

#87 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So like, unless you have a PAPR suit."

Or a CBRNE suit. Or comparable.

They're pretty easy to find. Want me to get you a link?

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:08 AM | Reply

"As in, I don't believe it. I think you're lying. I think you're deliberately spreading disinformation about the danger of coronavirus and grossly understating the ease of spreading COVID-19 disease."

And I think you're intentionally trying to leverage the COVID pandemic to create fear, which would in turn lead to an economic collapse that would drive people to be dependent on government. But what you and I think is utterly immaterial.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:10 AM | Reply

"You're the ------- ------- who said we should have bought everyone PPE instead of giving them cash. Now you're questioning your own argument? Get a clue moron."

I wouldn't buy one? I'm not in an at-risk demographic. Neither is my wife. Or my kids.

That's not to say that you shouldn't be allowed to buy one if it makes you feel better. Babies sometimes need a binky.

#90 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:12 AM | Reply

"Same thing folks say about audits... until it's them."

You could make that same argument about flying, or driving cars, or cancer. Or normal flu. Or pretty much anything else that kills people.

#91 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 11:13 AM | Reply

Mad-

Are you still living in Germany (or lived there recently)? I have a question for you, if you see this shoot me an email on my user page.

Thanks.

#92 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2020-05-12 11:33 AM | Reply

"You could make that same argument about flying, or driving cars, or cancer."

That when it happens to you, the "rate" becomes immaterial? Yeah, pretty much.

"Or normal flu."

Except this is 10X flu.

"I'm not in an at-risk demographic. Neither is my wife. Or my kids."

So your attitude stems from your belief you and your family are immune. Which of your kids would you sacrifice, Abraham? Is it Isaac? It's Isaac, isn't it?

#93 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-12 11:34 AM | Reply

I wouldn't buy one? I'm not in an at-risk demographic. Neither is my wife. Or my kids.

Nice dodge. You think there's enough PPE to cover every at-risk American? Yes or no.

#94 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-12 11:41 AM | Reply

MB is in for a rude awakening. Pride goeth before a fall. His smug certitude about his own safety is unsettling and a sign of some lack of understanding. Is he really competent to fly deadly aircraft? Or is his lack of fear a necessity to do that?

Either way, he seems like a distinctly unrealistic person with multiple delusions.
When his bubble gets popped, it would be wise to be far from him when he realizes what reality is.

As it is now,I think he's a bomb waiting to explode. I hope he gets help before it's too late.

#95 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-05-12 12:23 PM | Reply

"The problem with this study is that it does not quantify risk."

You also haven't quantified risk, but then you also didn't do a study, or even search for one.

And apparently you couldn't figure out quantifying risk for a disease that's only existed for six months isn't all that easy to do.

Maybe if you tried quantifying risk you would have noticed that.

Instead, you've simply decreed Three Million is the number at serious risk. And be serious risk you really mean greater than 50% chance of death. Someone who recovers but has impaired lung function for the rest of their life was at no risk, according to you.

The other thing you're doing is only looking at risk as it applies to the individual. For example, if you low-balled the risk, and hospitals are overrun, you've created a new systemic risk you hadn't thought of before.

Meat processing plants underestimated or more likely simply ignored the risk, and now they're forced to close, and you don't agree with their closure either, since you say those workers are at low-risk, even though some have died, and even as they bring the virus with them to their homes where higher risk people may reside. These are the types of disruptions that are better to avoid than take on the chin.

Your economic view is that Ferguson beat Gaethje, since Ferguson was able to withstand so many more punches. That's not how it works.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 01:34 PM | Reply

My point comes from Dr.. David Katz at Yale, who says just what I've been saying.
#87 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Oh, you mean this piece, from March 20.
Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?
www.nytimes.com

"We have, to date, fewer than 200 deaths from the coronavirus in the United States " a small data set from which to draw big conclusions."
^
That hasn't aged well.

"The clustering of complications and death from Covid-19 among the elderly and chronically ill, but not children (there have been only very rare deaths in children), suggests that we could achieve the crucial goals of social distancing " saving lives and not overwhelming our medical system " by preferentially protecting the medically frail and those over age 60, and in particular those over 70 and 80, from exposure."

So, if you're actually going with this point, just the number of Americans over 70 is 35 million (2018). That doesn't even include the medically frail, though certainly many over 70 will be.

Your low-ball Three Million estimate of the number of people at serious risk doesn't even withstand casual scrutiny, based on facts and Dr. Katz's own words. Your number is at least ten times too low.

And that's why you are a liar. Worse, you come here to deliberately and purposefully spread disinformation about the danger of coronavirus.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:03 PM | Reply

I understand the argument about going back to work. It's a legitimate concern. The economy is in freefall, and we can't be quarantined forever, although exactly how long is enough is something we still don't know. So states are carrying out their reopening plans, knowing they're taking a gamble but working with the best information they have. The governors for the most part know they might have to pull back again if there's a significant spike in cases.

What I will not accept is continued downplaying of the risk, along with this belief among many people, mostly those who lean right, that because they are healthy and (they hope) low-risk, they can go about their business more or less as usual. They can still pose a risk to other people. It's the same flawed logic used to argue against vaccines. It's not just about you. It's about how to keep as many people as possible alive and well. Higher-risk people are not expendable. They are not less worthy of living.

#98 | Posted by cbob at 2020-05-12 02:25 PM | Reply

"although exactly how long is enough is something we still don't know."

We do know:
A pandemic is expected to last 18 months or longer and could include multiple waves of illness.
Source: US Government COVID-19 Response Plan

(Another clue is that Google says their employees will be working from home for the rest of 2020.)

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:30 PM | Reply

"So your attitude stems from your belief you and your family are immune. Which of your kids would you sacrifice, Abraham? Is it Isaac? It's Isaac, isn't it?"

Just under 82k Americans have died of COVID. Of that 82k, three were children. That was as of 26 April. I have not seen anything since.

My kids have a better chance of dying on the drive to get them tested for COVID than they do of dying from the disease itself.

#100 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:34 PM | Reply

"Nice dodge. You think there's enough PPE to cover every at-risk American? Yes or no."

Yes.

#101 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:36 PM | Reply

"Either way, he seems like a distinctly unrealistic person with multiple delusions."

Honestly, that's what I see in you. Someone who is prone to hysterics, even to the point of rejecting the reality of the situation. I'm just not seeing how/why you would reject reason and common sense in favor of irrationality. You seem like an honest dude, so I can only assume it's fear.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:39 PM | Reply

"That hasn't aged well."

How about 02 May:

"www.smerconish.com"

"That view was echoed by Dr. John Ioannidis from Stanford. Writing for STAT news, he said the Diamond Princess Cruise ship suggested that the U.S. Fatality rate could be as low as 0.025 percent to 0.625 percent.
Together with colleagues at Stanford, Dr. Ioannidis published a study on the prevalence of COVID-19 in Santa Clara County, California. They estimated that between 2.49 percent and 4.16 percent of the county had been infected, which suggests a fatality rate between 0.12 percent and 0.2 percent."

#103 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:41 PM | Reply

"And that's why you are a liar. Worse, you come here to deliberately and purposefully spread disinformation about the danger of coronavirus."

And Dr. Katz? How about Dr. Ioannidis? Dr. Faust?

Are they working for some nefarious agency in order to make this look like it's no big deal? Am I?

It's far more likely that you're here lying to make this in to something it isn't. Far more likely.

#104 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:43 PM | Reply

"We do know: A pandemic is expected to last 18 months or longer and could include multiple waves of illness. Source: US Government COVID-19 Response Plan"

And we also know that 18 months from now, anyone left alive will be in that position because they've been made a ward of the state. And they will be completely and utterly dependent on the state.

I think from your vantage point that plays naturally in to the hands of progressives. I think it's just as likely, probably even more likely, that it would play into the hands of the authoritarian right.

All so you could embrace your intellectual laziness.

#105 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:46 PM | Reply

"It's about how to keep as many people as possible alive and well. Higher-risk people are not expendable. They are not less worthy of living."

So...how do you do that. My answer, and the answer of many, is to isolate those at high risk so the rest can go back to work. To me, that's the rational, practical course of action. To our friends in the clown show, it's not. I'm not sure why...but it's not.

#106 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:48 PM | Reply

"Dr. Katz believes in what he calls a vertical interdiction. "That means sheltering the vulnerable, while allowing those who can return to the world most safely to do so - thereby restoring the economy, supply chains, and services, while cultivating the collective protection of herd immunity that leads to the 'all clear. That's how we get our lives back without waiting on the long and uncertain timeline of vaccine development."

#107 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"And we also know that 18 months from now, anyone left alive will be in that position because they've been made a ward of the state"

Say what?
Prison is about the worst place to be right now, that isn't a nursing home, though of course some prisons actually function as both.
9,437 cases as of April 22, in a population of about 2,000,000.
www.themarshallproject.org

That scales to about 1.5 million cases at the national level.
That's about double the number of active cases total on April 22.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:51 PM | Reply

Anyway, since you're planning to be alive 18 months from now, you must therefore be a ward of the state, MadBomber?

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:51 PM | Reply

"My answer, and the answer of many, is to isolate those at high risk so the rest can go back to work."

Your frivolous definition of high risk notwithstanding,
Isolate at gunpoint, then?

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 02:53 PM | Reply

"Anyway, since you're planning to be alive 18 months from now, you must therefore be a ward of the state, MadBomber?"

Fortunately it seems, the vast majority of Americans don't share your keen embrace of utter steaming -------.

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:57 PM | Reply

"Isolate at gunpoint, then?"

God no.

My dad's going to croak if he picks this thing up...but he's shoot you if you tried to make him stay home.

Don't mess with old people with lots of guns. Or do...but don't say I didn't warn you.

#112 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 02:58 PM | Reply

"That means sheltering the vulnerable, while allowing those who can return to the world most safely to do so - thereby restoring the economy, supply chains, and services,"

That's what Tyson was thinking, right?
Those meat processing workers aren't high risk, right?

So the problem for you is public health shut down the plant to stop the outbreak from spreading. American should not do anything to keep the outbreak from spreading, except to high-risk areas, which you have yet to identify beyond nursing homes. And we should let infected but feeling okay workers keep working too, since their co-workers aren't at high risk either.

Holler back when Dr. Katz says it was wrong for Tyson to get shut down, okay?

P.S. Best if you ignore his Tweet,

Dr. David L. Katz Retweeted
Neal Barnard, MD
@DrNealBarnard

Apr 29
It's wrong to endanger Americans' lives to bail out the meat industry! Join me in urging
@realDonaldTrump
to rescind an executive order that will force dangerous meat plants to remain open without any liability during the COVID-19 crisis:
bit.ly

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:07 PM | Reply

"Isolate at gunpoint, then?"
God no.

Then how?
More to the point, how do you keep the other people away from them?
You know, the ones you're so eager to get back to work, bringing them packages, groceries, medicines, cleaning their bedpans and clipping their toenails?

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:08 PM | Reply

"Anyway, since you're planning to be alive 18 months from now, you must therefore be a ward of the state, MadBomber?"
Fortunately it seems, the vast majority of Americans don't share your keen embrace of utter steaming -------.
#111 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

That's not an answer.
You said "And we also know that 18 months from now, anyone left alive will be in that position because they've been made a ward of the state"
What's that even mean? The death rate is only like 2%. Your comment makes no sense. You're just lashing out, like you usually do.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:10 PM | Reply

"More to the point, how do you keep the other people away from them?"

If you choose to isolate yourself in your own home or residence, then you're already keeping people away.

How are you struggling with this???

#116 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:15 PM | Reply

"If you choose to isolate yourself in your own home or residence, then you're already keeping people away."

Not when your residence is a nursing home.
How are you struggling with this???

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:16 PM | Reply

"What's that even mean? The death rate is only like 2%. Your comment makes no sense. You're just lashing out, like you usually do."

It means that 1 in 6 people are currently unemployed by government mandate. Assuming you had your way, 1 in 6 would be unemployed 18 months from now. Or at least that would be a preferable option (for you) over the at-risk going in to self isolation and allowing that 1 in 6 to return to work.

1 in 6 workers dependent on the government...and an economy largely destroyed.

#118 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:21 PM | Reply

#101 LOL.

#119 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-12 03:21 PM | Reply

...then with contempt shall I fling my glove in the world's face, then shall I stride through the wreckage a creator.

-Snoofy

#120 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:23 PM | Reply

I mean Karl Marx.

#121 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:23 PM | Reply

"It means that 1 in 6 people are currently unemployed by government mandate."

So freaking what? We can front them like we fronted the stock market with ten years of Quantitative Easing.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:25 PM | Reply

#119

Yeah.

Never waste a crisis, Joe.

Just think what Bernie could have done with this moment. He could have flung his glove in the world's (or at least the US's) face, and strode through the wreckage a creator.

#123 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:25 PM | Reply

"...then with contempt shall I fling my glove in the world's face, then shall I stride through the wreckage a creator."

^
That's the "just let it wash over us" plan.

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:26 PM | Reply

"Just think what Bernie could have done with this moment."

What's Trump doing with this moment?
LOL

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:27 PM | Reply

#123 Who cares what someone who thinks there's enough PPE for every at-risk American thinks?

Some hospitals have PPE shortages, and you think suddenly we can arm every at-risk American with sufficient PPE?

You're a clueless moron - you've demonstrated it in this thread. Your opinion means ZERO.

#126 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-12 03:27 PM | Reply

"It means that 1 in 6 people are currently unemployed by government mandate."

No, not really.
If they want go work at the grocery store, the grocery stores are hiring.
Pretty sure Amazon Flex is hiring drivers too.

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:30 PM | Reply

"Some hospitals have PPE shortages, and you think suddenly we can arm every at-risk American with sufficient PPE?"

I can go online and buy whatever I needed at this very moment. So could you.

Need a link?

#128 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:32 PM | Reply

"No, not really. If they want go work at the grocery store, the grocery stores are hiring. Pretty sure Amazon Flex is hiring drivers too."

Well that's excellent news. So far, I've only saw increases in unemployment claims...but you're probably right.

#129 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:36 PM | Reply

"Some hospitals have PPE shortages, and you think suddenly we can arm every at-risk American with sufficient PPE?"
I can go online and buy whatever I needed at this very moment. So could you.
#128 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Who knew America only has two people in it?

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:38 PM | Reply

"What's Trump doing with this moment?"

Nothing, really.

I think Bernie would have saw it for what it was and seized the opportunity to Seize wealth and property. A dead economy with millions of desperate people is the ideal breeding ground for socialism...especially when you don't have an army to do it at gunpoint.

#131 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-12 03:39 PM | Reply

There are charts all over the internet showing that the American consumers had already pulled out of the economy before the first stay-at-home orders were given because they understood the public health ramifications of continuing mass commerce as usual.

The governments followed the public, the governments didn't lead the majority of the public. This is why even as states are reopening, smart citizens (anywhere from 60-80% of them) are not going to return to their normal public lives regardless what politicians and "liberty freaks" tell them to do.

The Madbombers of the world are free to do whatever they want to, but they are not free to demand that others follow their lead. Our entire economic paradigm built upon mass gatherings and mass traveling is not coming back in any sustainable percentages until the public has confidence that their own health and lives are not at stake for the sake of chasing dollars and taking unnecessary personal risks.

Flipping a sign from closed to open is not going to make that happen.

#132 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-12 03:40 PM | Reply

I think
#131 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

No, you don't.

I'd suggest you move to Honduras and find someone to teach you how to.

#133 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-12 03:46 PM | Reply

I can go online and buy whatever I needed at this very moment. So could you.
#128 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

If cost isn't an issue, you can buy anything.

But. You live in Democratic Socialist Germany.

So. For you. None of this actually matters and your opinion is meaningless.

Thanks for participating.

#134 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-12 03:49 PM | Reply

MadBomber, have you consulted with Dr. Katz about the economy is reopening too soon?
He didn't take your side on re-opening the meat processing plants.
Are you still taking his advice, or did you just take his advice that one time, when it served your purpose?

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-12 03:51 PM | Reply

I can go online and buy whatever I needed at this very moment. So could you.
Need a link?

Now go conjure up a definition of "at risk population," and try to add that many sets of PPE to your cart. Please report back with the results!

#136 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-12 04:04 PM | Reply

"The Madbombers of the world are free to do whatever they want to"

Wow.

Thanks for your permission.

It's far more than what I would have gotten from Snoofy.

#137 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-13 01:29 PM | Reply

"But. You live in Democratic Socialist Germany."

Ehh...this country hasn't been socialist since they were defeated by an alliance of nations in April of 1945.

#138 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-13 01:31 PM | Reply

Now go conjure up a definition of "at risk population,"

OK. Ready?

The mortality rate for those infected is currently sitting at between 1% and 2%. For the sake of an academic argument. Let's say it's 2% and extrapolate that number out across the greater population. That gives us 6.2 million people who are risk of dying of COVID. You could round it up and call it 10 million if you wanted to be conservative.

Another method would be to use the Santa Clara, NY, and LA studies, which show a much lower mortality rate, which a high end of .2%. This would mean the number of at risk Americans would be around 652,000.

In any case, the numbers are incredibly manageable, and becoming more manageable with each passing day. For those who aren't prone to hysterics, it seems like a solvable problem.

#139 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-13 01:40 PM | Reply

"Are you still taking his advice, or did you just take his advice that one time, when it served your purpose?"

Well, I suppose since I'm not working at a meat processing plant, I'm not taking his advice. Although I'm not entirely clear where Dr. Katz mentioned his opposition to re-opening processing plants. Not in the article I posted anyways.

#140 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-13 01:45 PM | Reply

Thanks for your permission.

I didn't make a statement of permission, I made a statement of fact.

Not surprised that you have no inkling of the difference.

#141 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-13 01:47 PM | Reply

- the numbers are incredibly manageable

Well good then.... that must mean you'll be volunteering.

That statement sounds much like what Adolf said when told there weren't really all than many Jews in Germany.

#142 | Posted by Corky at 2020-05-13 01:54 PM | Reply

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