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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 19, 2020

Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) took the treasury secretary to task on Tuesday for the Trump administration's efforts to keep facilities such as slaughterhouses open without sufficient worker protections. "How many workers will die if we send people back to work without the protections they need, Mr. Secretary?" the senator asked Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, contrasting the point with Mnuchin's earlier line that the country risked "permanent economic damage" due to business closures.

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There are several posters here we can as this question to.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-19 12:55 PM | Reply

'while the President signed an order declaring meatpacking plants "critical infrastructure," he did not insist on slowing down processing lines or ensuring that workers have protective equipment'

All the world as if he didn't care if they lived or died.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-19 12:56 PM | Reply

Ask the guy in the WH who gets tested mucho (and those around him: ditto). Hey, privilege has its privileges.

#3 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2020-05-19 01:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

E S S E N T I A L these guys are necessary for us to get meat in The stores. They can quit if they don't like it, nobody's got a gun to anyone's head here. They knew what they were signing up for.

This is AMERICA land of the Free.

#4 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-05-19 01:47 PM | Reply

They knew what they were signing up for.

The knew they were going to be forced to do an already crappy job with a severe respiratory infection that they could then spread to their families just so you can have cheap chicken and pork?

#5 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 02:08 PM | Reply

"They can quit if they don't like it, nobody's got a gun to anyone's head here."

^
Exactly.
They have the Right To Work.
It's better for them that way, to have to choose between almost certainly bringing the disease home to their families, or moving their families into the street.

Requiring their employers to provide PPE would be an insult to the workers dignity.

Holding their employers liable if the employees get COVID-19, would be an insult to the workers freedom.

Obama already harmed these workers by requiring their employers to provide health insurance. We shouldn't harm them further by giving them PPE or giving them the right to sue for unsafe working conditions.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 02:16 PM | Reply

"How many lives is 1,000 pts on the DOW worth"

It all depends on whose lives you are investing. If you are poor they would happily invest thousands of your lives but if they are rich, oh no their lives are worth much more.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2020-05-19 02:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trumpers will never give an honest answer to the question of precisely how much economic activity per death is worth it, even though their entire argument is based on the premise of "this isn't worth it."

#8 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-19 03:18 PM | Reply

how many deaths are acceptable for lack of economic activity?

#9 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 03:21 PM | Reply

I am working full time. If you aren't you can borrow my bootstraps.

#10 | Posted by bored at 2020-05-19 03:35 PM | Reply

how many deaths are acceptable for lack of economic activity?

#9 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

By which measure?

According to the stock market the economy is OK so we should keep doing what we're doing, right?

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 03:40 PM | Reply

I didn't know the stock market talks? This kind of sounds like how you would address issues.

#12 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 03:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I didn't know the stock market talks?
#12 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

Money talks, and -------- walks.
And that's why you're poor, Crassus.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 03:45 PM | Reply

LOL....how do you know anything about my lot in life? This place has just become and grievance board against the right without ever substance but lots of trashing. Looking at the stats board it shows why.

#14 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 03:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I didn't know the stock market talks? This kind of sounds like how you would address issues.

#12 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

That was a really lame dodge.

Care to address the point?

If the market is doing well and rising then isn't the economy fine and our restrictions not a problem?

#15 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 04:05 PM | Reply

how many deaths are acceptable for lack of economic activity?
#9 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

A lot of people are still working.

Need a job? Go get one and stop your complaining.

No one is stopping you from working from home or getting a job as an Essential Employee somewhere.

You know those fry cooks conservatives love to look down upon. They're hard at work.

What are you doing, other than crying for attention?

#16 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 04:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

So as you are looking around the country the market is doing fine? Really! How is unemployment, it is exactly how you want it, I see.

#17 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:22 PM | Reply

I have a job but wonder if you do.

#18 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:22 PM | Reply

I have a job
#18 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

You don't have to lie.

#19 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 04:25 PM | Reply

You don't have to lie.

#19 | Posted by ClownShack at

I'm not so sure.

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-19 04:26 PM | Reply

LOL...why do you speak of what you don't know? It shows just how horrible this has become, willing to make up anything to demean.

#21 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So as you are looking around the country the market is doing fine? Really! How is unemployment, it is exactly how you want it, I see.

#17 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

So you're saying the DOW is not representative of the economy at large?

I have a job but wonder if you do.

#18 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

Two, actually.

One is working from home most days a week the other is a few nights and weekend days a week.

Did you have a point with your petty assumption? Or are you just uncomfortable because everybody knows you're talking about your ass?

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 04:29 PM | Reply

It shows just how horrible this has become, willing to make up anything to demean.
#21 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

Those living in glass houses...

Have you actually read the stuff you post? It doesn't even come close to reality.

Try thinking critically about the situation we find ourselves in.

#23 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 04:39 PM | Reply

Glass houses, now that's rich.

You say nothing but attack and almost every post.

#24 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The dow is reflective of big corporate business but if that is how you measure the market your thinking we are getting better.

#25 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:43 PM | Reply

-Try thinking critically about the situation we find ourselves in.

Is that what you think you're doing?

Are you sure you aren't, instead, seeing this through the eyes of someone who has really been impacted by pandemic?

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 04:48 PM | Reply

Hey Eberly, how goes it?

#27 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:50 PM | Reply

You say nothing but attack and almost every post.
#24 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

Most likely because you're only reading my responses to you.

#28 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 04:50 PM | Reply

Going well, Crass.....great to see you.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 04:51 PM | Reply

On topic, of course you all have to understand that at some point, a lack of economic activity will kill more people than COVID 19.

#30 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 04:53 PM | Reply

how many deaths are acceptable for lack of economic activity?

Zero. And in a country with a functioning first-world government there'd be very few of them.

Now answer my question. Since i asked first.

#31 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-19 04:53 PM | Reply

It shows just how horrible this has become, willing to make up anything to demean.
#21 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

You mean like 50-60% of what you post?

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 04:55 PM | Reply

The dow is reflective of big corporate business but if that is how you measure the market your thinking we are getting better.

#25 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

That's not how I measure the economy.

But it is how Republicans measure the economy and it's the primary driver of their reopening policies at the national level.

I think the actual economy has been pretty crap for years, even before Trump came into office.

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 04:57 PM | Reply

31

is it a serious question?

Have you asked the same question regarding, tobacco, alcohol, highways, obesity, and all similar exposures we gladly allow in our society every day knowing they cause millions and millions of deaths each year?

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 04:57 PM | Reply

On topic, of course you all have to understand that at some point, a lack of economic activity will kill more people than COVID 19.

#30 | POSTED BY EBERLY

A frequent assertion that is at this point hyperbole.

Unless you can show me somebody who has or is advocating for that long and that hard of a lock down you're not really offering much substance here.

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 04:58 PM | Reply

economic activity per death is worth it, even though their entire argument is based on the premise of "this isn't worth it."

Zero death as you say but this isn't a zero death sum. The problem is you can't seem to grasp that either way there is going to be deaths so it isn't black and white like you politically prescribe.

#36 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 04:59 PM | Reply

Have you asked the same question regarding, tobacco, alcohol, highways, obesity, and all similar exposures we gladly allow in our society every day knowing they cause millions and millions of deaths each year?

#34 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Oh God the usual false equivalencies. Yawn.

#37 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 05:00 PM | Reply

Is that what you think you're doing?

I know why I, and America, are in the situation we find ourselves in today.

There have always been new strains of viruses. It's the response that has made this situation different.

It's the fact other nations got this locked down, and the person who is in charge of protecting this nation is more interested in his pride than this country.

I also understand that having millions of Americans staying at home and unemployed isn't good for our economy.

I'm not sure why COVID19 has become a political issue. I'm not sure why it's become a blame game of why it spread or which country is to blame or whether death counts are being faked.

What fffkin world are we living in when people are assuming death is political?

Ninety Thousand Dead Americans.

Not sure why that doesn't mean more.

Is it because its not due to war?

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 05:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

35

I don't know where the line exists and anybody here who says they do is lying.

But over the next couple of years, you're going to hear a lot about police, fire, public schools, non-profits, health care, etc....all sorts of entities who will suffer from a lack of funding.

nypost.com

please don't cry about the source and at least try to accept there has to be some truth it it.

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:02 PM | Reply

#34 are any of those things comparable, in your mind, to a fatal virus?

#40 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-19 05:05 PM | Reply

-I'm not sure why COVID19 has become a political issue. I'm not sure why it's become a blame game of why it spread or which country is to blame or whether death counts are being faked.
What fffkin world are we living in when people are assuming death is political?

It's a political issue because people WANT it to be a political issue.

And if someone dares argue a point that doesn't result in blaming Trump....they're accused of being a trumper. Who's making it political at that point?

If you're crying about it being political then STOP MAKING IT POLITICAL, you ------- ----.

#41 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:06 PM | Reply

Eberly,

We Could Stop CV Pandemic by July 4th by Taking These Steps
This is not new information, and it should have been what was set up during the time we've been in our lock down. This is the reason why South Korea has 260 deaths and the US 92,000 even though both countries had their first case of covid on the exact same day.

South Korea didn't politicize their response nor sideline science and math in setting their way forward and Trump did both. Therein lies much of the difference.

#42 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 05:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

40

in the sense that they cause lots and lots of preventable deaths? Yes.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:07 PM | Reply

On topic, of course you all have to understand that at some point, a lack of economic activity will kill more people than COVID 19.
#30 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I'm not sure I understand that.

I particularly don't understand how the people who suffer from a lack of economic activity in restaurant and bar jobs can't have that slack picked up by the Google and Twitter workers who earn ten times more.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:07 PM | Reply

42

can't read it

But I'm sure it's valid and correct. I'm not defending our lack of action nor the mistakes made by the Trump Administration that's contributed heavily to our case and death count.

I'm merely trying to understand why folks are advocating getting back to work.....right or wrong

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:10 PM | Reply

"Have you asked the same question regarding, tobacco, alcohol, highways, obesity, and all similar exposures we gladly allow in our society every day knowing they cause millions and millions of deaths each year?"

You mean like, how most states have banned smoking to some degree, because it causes health problems for non-smokers?
I can see how that's applicable to coronavirus, since, like secondhand smoke, the virus has to be spread to someone else in order to cause disease.
Hence, let's require masks in public.
You with me?

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:11 PM | Reply

Have you asked the same question regarding, tobacco, alcohol, highways, obesity, and all similar exposures we gladly allow in our society every day knowing they cause millions and millions of deaths each year?
#34 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Think of it like this, if you want to kill yourself, feel free.

Tobacco is available to use, but reports have shows second hand smoke can cause cancer, which is why it started getting banned at public places.

Alcohol is available to use, but drunk driving causes an increased level of car accidents which can lead to fatalities, which is why it's illegal to do so.

Highways are a place where cars move at incredibly fast speeds which can cause accidents and death, which is why there are speed limits and people aren't allowed on them without a motor vehicle.

Obesity is a self inflicted condition and though the government can't force you to eat healthy and exercise, they can suggest it. Michelle Obama tried to create healthier lunch plans in public schools and morons soiled themselves.

You are free to go walk around outside without a mask, like the idiots who stormed the capital buildings. You are free to keep working. No one is stopping you.

Figure out how to work from home. go get a job somewhere hiring essential employees.

#47 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 05:11 PM | Reply

#43 Ok let's assume they're all exactly the same thing.

Then yes, i do ask the same question about all of those things.

Now answer it as to COVID or shut the ---- up.

#48 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-19 05:13 PM | Reply

Why do we have the TSA?
It costs money and reduces freedom.
Why not let airlines provide security and let customers choose.

How many deaths has the TSA prevented?

Near zero. We should just let the terrorism wash over us like last century.

I want my full size bottle of shampoo.

#49 | Posted by bored at 2020-05-19 05:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

This is the reason why South Korea has 260 deaths and the US 92,000

And you believe this??????

#50 | Posted by Crassus at 2020-05-19 05:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

47

That's been my position on all of it from the start

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:16 PM | Reply

please don't cry about the source and at least try to accept there has to be some truth it it.

#39 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I wasn't planning on it.

However, it's a detail poor description of old research.

www.macrotrends.net

Unemployment from the 2008 recession peaked at about 10% (officially).

Your link would suggest we should have seen a spike or change in the death rate yet that isn't demonstrated in the above link.

In fact, the US death rate remained relatively constant for 2008 to 2013 and began to climb consistently through the present.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 05:17 PM | Reply

48

'lil joe....you didn't ask me a question.

#53 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:18 PM | Reply

It's a political issue because people WANT it to be a political issue.

Unless you're discussing medicine, virology, epidemiology...the science of the pandemic politics will inevitably be part of the discussion.

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 05:20 PM | Reply

"You are free to go walk around outside without a mask"

You shouldn't be.
For the same reason you shouldn't be allowed to drive drunk.
It's not that you might kill yourself. It's that you might kill others.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:21 PM | Reply

I'm merely trying to understand why folks are advocating getting back to work.....right or wrong

You can read it, just open a private/incognito window. The issue of getting back to work ignores huge unsettled issues that won't fix themselves - on top of the fact that it creates a false choice. It should never be one versus the other.

Facts: 75% of Americans feel that it is too soon to return to things as normal, including a greater percentage of those who lost jobs to covid. The reason why is that no one wants to place their own health or life in jeopardy for the sake of not starving.

Secondarily, large sectors of our economy cannot return to pre-pandemic scale until there is a vaccine or herd immunity. Travel, entertainment, sports, mass transit, all of these areas are not going to operate at pre-covid levels while we live in a socially distancing world.

So the economy we just had is not coming back as it was, and the new one finds many businesses or service providers unable to profit with a fraction of the business they won't have until public confidence in maintaining safety in mass gathering situations returns.

Now, ask yourself if it makes more sense to take every step possible to wring out the virus now, or to let it boomerang back and forth among a crippled economy unable to sustain itself outside of industries that can profit in a social distancing reality?

#56 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 05:21 PM | Reply

This is the reason why South Korea has 260 deaths and the US 92,000
And you believe this??????
#50 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

Tell us why you don't and show your work, please.

#57 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 05:22 PM | Reply

54

I'm not sure anything is immune to politics infected it including those subjects.

52

I would think unemployment would have to climb above 10% before it would impact mortality significantly.

#58 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 05:23 PM | Reply

"I'm merely trying to understand why folks are advocating getting back to work.....right or wrong"

Because they value money in their wallets over the lives of strangers.
That's not really much of a challenge to figure out.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm not sure anything is immune to politics infected it including those subjects.

Depends on who you talk to and their intentions. Have had many conversations with people about the science and medicine without politics coming up.

I would think unemployment would have to climb above 10% before it would impact mortality significantly.

#58 | POSTED BY EBERLY

That's not what the NY Post link said.

The article described research from 1981 saying that per point of unemployment you have about 37,000 deaths. 20,000 of which are heart attacks, about 10,000 others and (not sure why this is included as loss of life...) about 7,000 mental hospital and prison admissions.

I see why economic downturns can lead to more deaths in theory, just not seeing the data to support it being such a hard assertion.

#60 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 05:28 PM | Reply

This is the reason why South Korea has 260 deaths and the US 92,000

And you believe this??????
#50 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

South Korea has a reputation for being open and honest with America. We were their closest ally until Trump gave them a reason not to be.

What makes you doubt them? They've shared all their information with us since the beginning of the pandemic.

#61 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 05:30 PM | Reply

TONY

Did you read Trump has sidelined the CDC? That he delayed the global travel ban the CDC recommended for a week as COVID-19 spread?

#62 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-19 05:33 PM | Reply

Do you have a link AU? I'd not seen this exact reporting yet.

#63 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 05:36 PM | Reply

"I see why economic downturns can lead to more deaths in theory"

Presumably, then, you can see why financial support for the affected people would reduce deaths. In theory.
Presumably Eberly can see that too.

So the question boils down to:
Is it worth giving We The People money to save American lives, much like We The People gave financial markets nearly ten years of Quantitative Easing to save the stock market?

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:36 PM | Reply

LOL....how do you know anything about my lot in life?
#14 | POSTED BY CRASSUS

I know you have a union job.
That means you're not rich.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:39 PM | Reply

Presumably, then, you can see why financial support for the affected people would reduce deaths. In theory.

From the beginning my position has been that the vast majority of the stimulus should have went to people to allow it to trickle up through the economy.

Not sure why exactly you posed that question to me.

#66 | Posted by jpw at 2020-05-19 05:40 PM | Reply

What makes you doubt them?

My guess is because his lizard brain equated South Koreans to communist Chinese.

Notice that he didn't react to HOW South Korea did it, just that the numbers had to be incorrect.

That is politicizing the pandemic. It's always been a matter of virus' exponential spread and the math which quantifies it as a matter of predictable (yet changeable through action) probability.

If the discussion leaves that realm, then politics can pollute the discourse.

#67 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 05:41 PM | Reply

From the beginning my position has been that the vast majority of the stimulus should have went to people to allow it to trickle up through the economy.
Not sure why exactly you posed that question to me.
#66 | POSTED BY JPW

It's so Eberly can refuse to answer it.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-19 05:42 PM | Reply

More free cash please! I need to be stimulated. The banks,the bond markets,the oil producers, everyone is getting onto the feedbag. I want my feedbag too.

They should be giving those meatpackers a big feedbag too,hazard pay. At least $2000 a month extra to bring in the beef!

#69 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-05-19 05:45 PM | Reply

#53 Uh huh.

#70 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-19 05:50 PM | Reply

Is it worth giving We The People money to save American lives, much like We The People gave financial markets nearly ten years of Quantitative Easing to save the stock market?

Go back to February/March when I wrote about what was inevitable because of what had already happened/was happening in Wuhan, South Korea and closer to home in Italy. Because the virus was already loose, we had no alternative but to shut down our society to keep from breaking our hospitals and health providers - first in hot spots, and then everywhere else if mitigation practices weren't adopted.

I advocated for what amounted to a pause - where financial markets were suspended and as much financial relief as possible should have been granted across society so that people could focus on food and not have their finances destroyed by something outside of anyone's control. Smart people could have figured out something where the US Government became basically the payer of bills until the taxpayers could repay the tabs once the economy got going again. When we talk about government spending, we are the ones who provide the money to pay the bill for government spending and I can think of nothing more important than making sure taxpayers have that opportunity once the pandemic runs its course.

In order to fill the huge hole this shutdown caused, the only entity that can literally create money has to do so in support of all the people - including state and local governments that will not see their tax revenues return to pre-covid levels for years - not just those ending in Inc. of LLC.

#71 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 05:51 PM | Reply

TONY

Dr. Trump sidelines the CDC

arktimes.com

White House Sidelines Scientists and Delays CDC Guidelines | Meet The Press

www.youtube.com

2 days ago - White House tensions with CDC spill into public view as top Trump ... of how the Trump administration has sought to sideline the CDC

www.washingtonpost.com

#72 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-19 05:59 PM | Reply

Thanks AU. I'm aware of the latest scapegoating of the CDC by Navarro and Azar and the entire mess has brought something important into focus.

Eberly asks why politics has consumed the debate about the covid pandemic and it's completely because from the very first second, Trump's response to its very existence was based on blame instead of mobilizing a coordinated response that could have minimized its impact.

When previous epidemics hit Obama in 2009 and 2014, his government's response wasn't to first assign blame to the origin countries, it was to marshal the government's full resources on actuating the most effective response that we could. During the Ebola outbreak I do remember some Republicans trying to blame Obama for the fact that infected persons were allowed into the US, but I don't recall any of the then government officials spending precious time trying to assign blame instead of articulating all that was being done to protect Americans from the pathogens.

Trying to be as objective as I can, I don't recall anyone from Obama's government trying to shift blame or responsibility for the viral outbreaks to outside agencies. They focused all their energies in keeping the public calm, yet informed - giving them the best information available in real time in order to minimize the spread of infection.

And I don't see why mentioning this difference between then and now isn't illustrative of what has been lacking from Trump and his government and it continues to be lacking as the federal government isn't leading a 50 state response, each state is going it independently or in loose coordination with other nearby states.

But perhaps my memory isn't correct on these points.

#73 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 06:16 PM | Reply

Eberly asks why politics has consumed the debate about the covid pandemic and it's completely because from the very first second, Trump's response to its very existence was based on blame instead of mobilizing a coordinated response that could have minimized its impact.

As you say, politics has consumed the covid response purely because Trump has chosen to.

#74 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-19 06:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Just the < $25.00 hr crowd.

Expendable.

#75 | Posted by fresno500 at 2020-05-19 09:43 PM | Reply

Since we are talking lives vs economic benefit to the masses. Why not re-instate the death tax and kill 1000 Billionaires. Just a thousand, less than 0.001% of the population.
Think of benefits of the infrastructure programs half their assets would be able to fund.

#76 | Posted by bored at 2020-05-19 09:50 PM | Reply

-Eberly asks why politics has consumed the debate

I don't believe I asked that.

#77 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-19 09:59 PM | Reply

-I'm not sure why COVID19 has become a political issue. I'm not sure why it's become a blame game of why it spread or which country is to blame or whether death counts are being faked.

What fffkin world are we living in when people are assuming death is political?

It's a political issue because people WANT it to be a political issue.

Obviously I wasn't directly quoting you Eberly, I was paraphrasing.

However, I don't see why you think that the above paragraph isn't concisely summed up as politics consuming the debate over covid.

Now, if the first sentence isn't yours, I stand corrected. I thought the entire screed was yours alone.

#78 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 10:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Eberly asks why politics has consumed the debate

I don't believe I asked that.

I asked the question. Rhetorically.

Eberly made it about people wanting it to be, rather than, as you have pointed out, it being Trump's modus operandi.

Trump fffked it up. Trump's not to blame. It's someone else's fault. Democrats fault. China's fault. But not his.

Let's be 100% clear. This entire shht sandwich, is Trump's doing. Trump screwed it up. Trump continues to screw up. Trump will continue to screw it up.

This isn't political because of me or you or your neighbors. This is political because Trump needs it to be. To distract from his failure.

#79 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-05-19 10:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Ebs, here's a great example unique to Trump just from today.

Trump describes medical researchers as enemies because he doesn't like their results

"If you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people that were in very bad shape. They were very old. Almost dead," Trump said. He described the study as "a Trump-enemy statement."

"There was a false study done where they gave it to very sick people, extremely sick people, people that were ready to die," he said. "It was given by obviously not friends of the administration." He later added that it "was a phony study and it's very dangerous to do it."

This is why the pandemic has become political. No one else would claim that a research study's findings were an "enemy statement" because the scientific information doesn't give the results desired by Trump himself.

He is claiming doctors are the enemy - his political enemy. This is what Trump does with every issue, and most of those of us who've recognized his narcissistic myopia long ago can't understand why this isn't obvious. If hydrochloroquine actually saved lives from covid, I'd be happy as a clam because saving lives is what all of us should want to see. By comparison, Trump appears to want his desired reality be acknowledged as correct even when it isn't, and anyone who refuses to agree with his version of reality is personally "against him" - instead of merely wanting actual solutions instead of wasting valuable time on disproven wishes.

I hope this helps because Trump does this almost every day with every issue that doesn't go his way. He is the one injecting politics into these issues while the other side simply wants to deal with facts and evidence as they exist - which makes them enemies in his and his supporters' eyes.

#80 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-05-19 11:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

More free cash please!
#69 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Since when are Right-wingers opposed to folks getting their own tax money back?
And even then, it's not free, people are earning it by staying home and not killing their fellow citizens.

#81 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-05-20 07:00 AM | Reply

"The dow is reflective of big corporate business but if that is how you measure the market your thinking we are getting better."

I hope you understand that the Dow is only holding steady because the Fed is pumping trillions of dollars into it? When the Fed stops pumping money the stock market will crash. We have to prop up our millionaires and billionaires but there is no real effort to help the working class. I hope most Americans are noticing this defect in our handling of this crisis, it shows us how expendable most of us are and how priveleged the rich are.

#82 | Posted by danni at 2020-05-20 08:08 AM | Reply

"I'm not sure why COVID19 has become a political issue. "

Seriously?

Trumpy made it political.

The stock market is up 400 pts again today.

It's seems to be doing fine without killing any extra Americans.

What is Humpy's hurry?

Oh yeah. The November is coming and Humpy is getting desperate because his economy is in shambles and he needs to be re-elected in order to stay out of the courts and maybe even jail.

#83 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-20 10:31 AM | Reply

Danni,

"When the Fed stops pumping money the stock market will crash. We have to prop up our millionaires and billionaires but there is no real effort to help the working class. I hope most Americans are noticing this"

I'm noticing you think only the "rich" care about the stock market.

Lots of working class have a 401k tied to the stock market.

Sheesh.

#84 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-05-20 12:53 PM | Reply

"Lots of working class have a 401k tied to the stock market."

Yes but it's for retirement.
It's not supposed to matter in their workaday lives.

How long ago did you retire, and do you even have a 401(K)?

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 12:59 PM | Reply

Danni,

That's one of problems of people like you who don't have a dog in the fight.

#86 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-05-20 12:59 PM | Reply

Doofy,

I have a 401k and I want it to still be there when I retire.

#87 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-05-20 01:01 PM | Reply

Doofy,

Much of it is money I deducted from my paycheck and I care very much about it vanishing.

#88 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-05-20 01:03 PM | Reply

I have a 401k and I want it to still be there when I retire.

#87 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020

Hey, BILL.

Hope you're still there when you retire.

#89 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-20 01:06 PM | Reply

I have a 401k and I want it to still be there when I retire.
#87 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You saw your friends die from AIDS in the 80s and you're still working?

When's retirement, next Thursday?

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 01:12 PM | Reply

"How many workers should give their lives to increase the GDP or the Dow Jones by a thousand points?" Brown asked.

Again, more fear propaganda that has no basis in reality. The administration isn't trying to gain points. The administration is trying to prevent the collapse of our entire economy. So, here's another question. How many lives can we sacrifice to ensure the greater good continues to exist? [...] Save lives by collapsing the economy or sacrifice lives to protect the economy. Looking at either as the right answer means you are already wrong.

#91 | Posted by humtake at 2020-05-20 01:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The administration isn't trying to gain points. The administration is trying to prevent the collapse of our entire economy."

BS

The Dow is almost at 30K.

That alone is Trump's goal.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 01:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The interesting thing about this question is that in all honesty, for most politicians the answer depends on whether we are discussing American lives, or the lives of people from around the globe. The US government has a long ugly history of promoting our international business and corporate interests even at the expense of the lives of foreigners. Union Carbide, Raytheon, Lockheed and Monsanto come quickly to mind.

#94 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-05-20 03:03 PM | Reply

Is Trump making people go back to work?

It seems to me that, given the current economic situation, there are more workers than there are jobs. And if someone doesn't want to work in a particular position, there's probably at least one other person who would happily fill that position. And if risk is part of the decision calculus, then wages will climb until workers do fill those positions. Really no different than roustabouts in the oil fields, who are paid a premium based on the hazards involved in their chosen profession.

Once again, problem solved by the free market.

#95 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 03:29 PM | Reply

"We have to prop up our millionaires and billionaires but there is no real effort to help the working class."

It's just billionaires now Danni. Millionaires stopped being a class enemy when Bernie became one.

#96 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Question: Is Humtake a sock puppet troll? Or is he a paid right wing political bot? It is hard to believe that his posts are serious on any level beyond one of those two possibilities.

#97 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-05-20 03:34 PM | Reply

Once again, problem solved by the free market.

How does that solve the pandemic?

Or is the only "problem" you see here people not working?

#98 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-20 03:37 PM | Reply

-It seems to me that, given the current economic situation, there are more workers than there are jobs

I'll tell what though....I have several clients who laid off some staff a couple months ago.

They are now ready to hire them back.

Guess what? Those workers got $1,200 or more from the CARE Act and now they are receiving unemployment and they don't want to come back just now.

So yes....with such high unemployment right ......employers STILL struggle with finding people.

-Millionaires stopped being a class enemy when Bernie became one.

----, even some billionaires are beyond criticism. Warren Buffet is being sued by the IRS at any given time and is the Left's very definition of a greedy billionaire...but he mentions, one time, that his secretary has a higher tax rate than him and the left thinks he is some sort of philanthropist of great benevolence.

BTW, I'm not sure Buffet wasn't bragging when he said his secretary's tax rate was higher.

#99 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 03:42 PM | Reply

"How does that solve the pandemic?"

Wanna know how to solve the pandemic? Give every human a cyanide capsule. COVID will no longer be able to live in a human host.

In any case, let those who want to work work, and those who don't can hunker down with you. If you're concerned that you might get passed the virus through meat, then don't eat meat. You can live without meat.

But I go to work every single day. Why should others not be allowed to do the same?

#100 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 03:44 PM | Reply

Why is it that every time you point out the financial and economic realities of our society, folks who have nothing to say just chime with "yeah, but this is Trump's fault and you don't care"???

I know it's difficult to understand, but one can accept the fault Trump deserves and still have a conversation not centered around that.

#101 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 03:46 PM | Reply

-The administration isn't trying to gain points. The administration is trying to prevent the collapse of our entire economy.

Now, you're thinking like some leftists here.....and living in a binary world.

It's possible that both can be true. That the administration is trying to prevent the collapse AND trying to gain points at the same time.

People on both sides apparently want to pretend it's an either/or situation when it can clearly be both.

It's how politics work.

#102 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 03:48 PM | Reply

"----, even some billionaires are beyond criticism."

Certainly.

I don't think the position on the left is that wealth is bad, it's just that the left doesn't get to control who is wealthy and who isn't.

Not sure how much you know about Karl Marx, but pretty much everything he did was based on his opinion that he was far more valuable to society than what they gave him credit for. And the fact that they didn't elevate him to a position of prominence was proof that society was broken.

#103 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 03:49 PM | Reply

Wanna know how to solve the pandemic? Give every human a cyanide capsule.

The "right," ladies and gentlemen.

#104 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-20 03:50 PM | Reply

But I go to work every single day. Why should others not be allowed to do the same?

You go to work in Germany. You are not an appropriate anecdote for what Americans should or should not be doing.

#105 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-20 03:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-And the fact that they didn't elevate him to a position of prominence was proof that society was broken.

I wonder if some here suffer from the same disappointment. They expect to be taken so seriously and are so offended when you dare question anything......you have to wonder they feel like their street cred is being dissed.

#106 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 03:53 PM | Reply

-But I go to work every single day.

Unemployment has climbed 10 points (not 50 or more) which means most folks go to work every day, including me.

Not sure about Joe.

#107 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 03:54 PM | Reply

"You go to work in Germany. You are not an appropriate anecdote for what Americans should or should not be doing."

And my counterparts go to work in the US every day...no different than me. They just show up about seven hours after I do.

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 04:01 PM | Reply

"I wonder if some here suffer from the same disappointment. They expect to be taken so seriously and are so offended when you dare question anything......you have to wonder they feel like their street cred is being dissed."

That's 100% the case.

Consider Danni. No college, and no economic education. But she'll tell you that all that is worthless because she's learned it through life.

It's a copout that she (and others) routinely apply for themselves...but only themselves. Because no one but them will ever be the smartest person in the room.

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 04:05 PM | Reply

#107

If someone like Danni or Joe jumped on to the chat at the Economist or Marginal Revolution (Tyler Cowen), they'd be regarded as irrelevent. People who were out of their element engaging in discussion that were beyond their understanding. That's me, most of the time as well...but the average lefty on this site wouldn't even know what the average lefty at MR was talking about. Because it's not Rachel Maddow, Amy Goodman-type emotional material.

#110 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-20 04:09 PM | Reply

Quite the tangent you've found yourself on. Enjoy that.

#111 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-20 04:40 PM | Reply

And what sort of insurance program do the workers in Germany have in case they become ill while at work? How does that compare to your US counterpart? What happens to a worker in Germany if they are hurt on the job and can't work any more? How does that work for your US counterpart? Answer those questions and perhaps you might be given the courtesy of being listened to. if you can't, well...

OCU

#112 | Posted by OCUser at 2020-05-20 06:53 PM | Reply

Again, more fear propaganda that has no basis in reality. The administration isn't trying to gain points. The administration is trying to prevent the collapse of our entire economy. So, here's another question. How many lives can we sacrifice to ensure the greater good continues to exist? [...] Save lives by collapsing the economy or sacrifice lives to protect the economy. Looking at either as the right answer means you are already wrong.

#91 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

It should hurt to be this dumb.

#113 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-05-20 07:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Save lives by collapsing the economy or sacrifice lives to protect the economy."

It's quite telling that

"Save lives and the economy -- both at the same time -- by redistributing a small fraction of the wealth amassed by the top tier."

Is inconceivable for Republicans.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 09:09 PM | Reply

Alcohol consumption is up, cancer screenings are way down, as a result of quarantine. I wonder how many will die due to lockdown restrictions and fear?

#115 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-05-20 09:42 PM | Reply

115

Exactly. All kinds of preventative medical procedures are being postponed. mamograms, paps, colonoscopies, normal physicals, etc...

I'm not arguing it wasn't a prudent decision to enact those measures....but just recognizing that not doing those things will likely have an impact later on lives. We will be saving some lives of those who didn't contract COVID but we'll be losing some (much less I hope) due to not getting screenings and other preventative care to catch deadly cancers in time.....which is why we are seeing States starting allowing things like this to resume.

#116 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 09:48 PM | Reply

"we'll be losing some (much less I hope) due to not getting screenings and other preventative care to catch deadly cancers in time."

Meanwhile, something like twenty million Americans that still don't have health insurance and never get those screenings.

Eberly is seemingly unique among Republicans in having the capacity to understand that it could well would cost us less to insure them than not insure them.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 10:05 PM | Reply

I know two people diagnosed with cancer before the pandemic. Unbelievably tough situation for cancer patients. Do you go ahead with treatments that are known to deplete your immune system and at medical facilities that will likely increase your exposure to the virus? It's a terrifying nightmare for anyone with cancer--or any other serious illness that compromises the immune system.

#118 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-05-20 10:22 PM | Reply

How high does the unemployment rate need to go before Sherrod Brown is happy?

#119 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-20 10:48 PM | Reply

The Dow is almost at 30K.
That alone is Trump's goal.
#93 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-05-20 01:50 PM

THAT is a Trump Enemy Statement.

#120 | Posted by e1g1 at 2020-05-20 11:02 PM | Reply

-How high does the unemployment rate need to go before Sherrod Brown is happy?

Not to mention the death count from COVID.

#121 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-20 11:29 PM | Reply

It's informative as to the nature of Republicans that none of Sherrod Brown's Republicans detractors have even attempted to answer her question.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 11:31 PM | Reply

Sherrod Brown is a man, unless you have some info that isn't public yet.

#123 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-20 11:40 PM | Reply

Thanks for underlining my point.

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-20 11:46 PM | Reply

Sherrod Brown is a pretty major figure, and you don't even know who he is. And his question was rhetorical.. So was mine.

Here's another one: if I get banned again and don't come back for five more years, will Snoofy still be an uninformed moron?

#125 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-20 11:59 PM | Reply

#112

You must first ask what the Germans are willing to pay in taxes in order to gain access to those services, and what sacrifices they're willing to make. I personally think that the German system is very fair, but that fairness comes at the price of individual freedom for the German citizens. The German government goes a very good job at being good stewards of taxpayer dollars. Your average BernieBro would tell you that's not necessary. That you need only make the wealthy pay for the wants of society.

#126 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 01:59 AM | Reply

The bottom line is that when USan decide that they are willing to pay for these services, the services will follow. So far, every proposal for these services has been centered on making someone else pay for them.

#127 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 03:53 AM | Reply

" I personally think that the German system is very fair, but that fairness comes at the price of individual freedom for the German citizens."

I'm pretty sure the German people would tell you that our system of corporate insurance companies making insurance out of reach for millions, then Republicans trying to overturn Obamacare in the middle of a Pandemic, etc. makes us less free not them. You aren't free if getting sick one time will bankrupt you.

#128 | Posted by danni at 2020-05-21 09:02 AM | Reply

"-How high does the unemployment rate need to go before Sherrod Brown is happy?"

What an ignorant and hateful post.

#129 | Posted by danni at 2020-05-21 09:05 AM | Reply

Have you asked the same question regarding, tobacco, alcohol, highways, obesity, and all similar exposures we gladly allow in our society every day knowing they cause millions and millions of deaths each year?

#34 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I didn't realize obesity or auto accidents were transmitted by someone breathing on you.

#130 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-05-21 10:05 AM | Reply

Still waiting for a single trumper to answer precisely how many dollars of economic activity each Covid death is worth.

Their argument is that lockdowns are not worth the dollars lost as relates to lives saved. That means a line must exist somewhere to them. Where is it?

#131 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 10:35 AM | Reply

130

That's not the comparison. The comparison is that they are preventable deaths.

We legally sanction hundreds of thousands of deaths each year in the country and will continue to do it.

Please, don't pretend to miss that point.

#132 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 10:35 AM | Reply

-That means a line must exist somewhere to them. Where is it?

I'm asking the same thing. But.....do you agree there is a line somewhere?

#133 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 10:37 AM | Reply

do you agree there is a line somewhere?

There probably is. But the people screaming "this isn't worth it" should be compelled to come forth and state what the number is.

#135 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 10:52 AM | Reply

-But the people screaming "this isn't worth it" should be compelled to come forth and state what the number is.

What about the people screaming "this IS worth it"?

What are you screaming?

#136 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 10:54 AM | Reply

I didn't scream anything. Thanks for your time.

#137 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 10:57 AM | Reply

If you really don't think people storming their legislatures with automatic weapons in hand demanding that we reopen Applebees shouldn't be called to task for what amount of economic activity they deem another few thousand Covid deaths to be worth, that's your prerogative, but i'll keep asking the question.

#138 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 10:59 AM | Reply

Errant double negative but i'm sure you get the point.

#139 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 10:59 AM | Reply

For every COVID death in the US, 413 people have lost their jobs. Is that number too high, too low . . . . ?
How about an unemployment rate of 60%? Would that pacify the Sherrod Browns of the world that we're taking it as seriously as he is? Or do we need to make it 70?

Noticed he's still got a paying job, by the way. Lots of people screaming for continued lockdowns are on fixed-income retirements and aren't affected at all. Like so many of the Boomer Doomers who are also on a fixed income provided by the government. Easy for them to say to stay home.

#140 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 11:03 AM | Reply

Joe, what is the unemployment rate you would be happy with? How many more millions of people need to lose their jobs, so that you can sleep better at night knowing we've done all we can to keep you from catching a disease?

#141 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 11:07 AM | Reply

Joe, what is the unemployment rate you would be happy with? How many more millions of people need to lose their jobs, so that you can sleep better at night knowing we've done all we can to keep you from catching a disease?

#142 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 11:07 AM | Reply

Yeah Joe, I get the point. I'm not trying to understand the point being made by folks storming their state capitols. I'm not surprised they are doing it and quite frankly, anybody who didn't expect that to happen eventually was being insanely naive. They are loons anyway

But 2 counties that touch mine have had.....wait for it......ZERO confirmed COVID cases.

I'm not joking.....ZERO. How long do you expect those folks to choke their local economy over this?

#143 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 11:10 AM | Reply

what is the unemployment rate you would be happy with?

Zero. Do you think i take delight in people being unemployed?

#144 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 11:12 AM | Reply

ZERO. How long do you expect those folks to choke their local economy over this?

I'd be interested in seeing the CDC discuss whether it's possible to present a nationwide strategy that allows for some places to open and others not based on risk, population, etc. Perhaps that defeats the purpose of quarantines given our mobile society, but perhaps not. I'm open to that.

#145 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 11:15 AM | Reply

"For every COVID death in the US, 413 people have lost their jobs. "

Well, don't worry your pretty little head: that 413 number is coming waaaaaay down.

#146 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-21 11:16 AM | Reply

Seeing states do this on their own with no apparent guidance or coherent national message is disappointing at minimum, dangerous is more likely.

#147 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 11:16 AM | Reply

Interesting how the sanctity of life is such a movable concept for concervatrons. It really is hard to pin down their values. Their talk and walk definitely happens on two separate realities.

#148 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-05-21 11:17 AM | Reply

I think you're willing to sacrifice the livelihoods of tens of millions of people so that you can feel more secure. And that you think you're actually the good guy for doing so.

Sorry. I think you're ridiculous and selfish. Do you think people are upset because they want Applebees reopened and a nice haircut? Or do you think maybe they don't have any idea how they're going to provide for their families for years to come? Do you suspect that many people, right and left, are rightly concerned that we have taken away several freedoms and rights that are spelled out in the BIll of Rights, without due process, without debate, all on a governor's or mayor's whimsy?

Or do you actually really believe we all just want to get 2-1 Pot Stickers at a casual dining restaurant, and kill old people to make it happen? Grow a brain.

#149 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 11:18 AM | Reply

"on a fixed income provided by the government. "

Provided by the government?!? GFY: The worker paid for that money, and then some...unless a ~2% average annual return on investment is good news in your world.

#150 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-21 11:19 AM | Reply

Do you think people are upset because they want Applebees reopened and a nice haircut?

Yes. I've seen the signs at their protests. I guess you haven't.

Do you suspect that many people, right and left, are rightly concerned that we have taken away several freedoms and rights that are spelled out in the BIll of Rights, without due process, without debate, all on a governor's or mayor's whimsy?

I suspect anyone taking that position should educate themselves on Constitutional law. Many of your "rights" are subject to reasonably tailored restrictions in the face of a compelling state interest. There is arguably no more compelling state interest than slowing the spread of a pandemic.

#151 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 11:21 AM | Reply

"we have taken away several freedoms and rights that are spelled out in the BIll of Rights"

Where, specifically, does my right to infect you occur? Can those who infect others be charged, or is ignorance of "asymptomatic contagion" a good enough excuse?

#152 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-21 11:21 AM | Reply

For every COVID death in the US, 413 people have lost their jobs. Is that number too high, too low . . . . ?
How about an unemployment rate of 60%? Would that pacify the Sherrod Browns of the world that we're taking it as seriously as he is? Or do we need to make it 70?

#140 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

It's almost as if Trump shouldn't have taken January through Mid-March off and maybe done something about the virus when we still had a chance?

Okay okay, too late for that now.

Maybe we could try re-opening partially with proper safety protocols like CDC recommended testing, contact tracing, proper social distancing, and mandated face masks?

No? Okay, you have a point. That stuff costs like money and freedom and junk. Can't do it. Got it.

New idea! Let 100,000 people die during two months of social distancing and another 200,000-500,000 die without it so we can re-open without pesky things masks and social distancing!

And then just pretend there was no other option and blame the Dems!

Genius!

#153 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-05-21 11:23 AM | Reply

I'd also argue that the choice between ruining our economy or allowing a pandemic to spread only exists because our government refuses to bring us into the first world.

Denmark is paying every citizen who had a job 75-90% of their salary, and making things right for businesses too, provided they don't fire their employees during the stay at home order. But they run a surplus and negative interest rates because their country isn't full of rightwing nutcases.

#154 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 11:24 AM | Reply

"ZERO confirmed COVID cases"

With testing, or without testing? I heard somewhere places that do no testing have fewer confirmed cases....

#155 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-21 11:24 AM | Reply

"Seeing states do this on their own with no apparent guidance or coherent national message is disappointing at minimum, dangerous is more likely."

Why?

Those who are at high risk of COVID can't and won't be compelled to participate in society, regardless of how open or closed it is. And if the outcome of your decision calculus is that the risk from COVID is less than the risk from isolation, why should you be prevented from going out and getting on with life?

#156 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 11:27 AM | Reply

How much is one life worth?

Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020

You could have the balls to tell us.

Set a figure.

#157 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 11:31 AM | Reply

In California it's not against the law to knowingly infect another person with an STD. But we're going to close all the schools because one of the kids might catch the bug and take it home to grandpa.

Lots of people catch the flu from other people on an airplane. That's been true as long as there have been airplanes. But it took COVID to get the Boomers to shut down the developed world. Freedom of Assembly, gone. Freedom of religion, also gone. Commit a crime a couple of years ago and in mid-sentence they'll spring you from a crowded jail because of COVID, to make room for the people who aren't social distancing while paddle boarding. We gotta make room in the jails for those people now.

Astonishing how the party of the working man turned into the party of Uberrich Wall Street bankers and Silicon Valley oligarchs. Then how the party that championed civil liberties have thrown them all away, just to buy themselves a little bit of perceived safety. Ah well. Sure is an interesting time to be alive.

#158 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 11:33 AM | Reply

-Seeing states do this on their own with no apparent guidance or coherent national message is disappointing at minimum, dangerous is more likely.

Dangerous is a relative term. But we have much more information than we did a few months ago. Governors are going to be compelled to allow County governments to decide for themselves on many issues and take their hands off. If for no other reason that it's going to be argued where a Governor's legal authority ends.......we'll be seeing that in the coming months, I predict.

#159 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 11:36 AM | Reply

" In California it's not against the law to knowingly infect another person with an STD."

But illegal to knowingly infect them with HIV.

You'll notice when possible death is involved, the law changes.

#160 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-05-21 11:36 AM | Reply

-With testing, or without testing?

with few tests, I'm sure. These are fairly rural counties of course.

#161 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 11:46 AM | Reply

" In California it's not against the law to knowingly infect another person with an STD."

Except that is not true. That took about 5 seconds to debunk.

You premise is flawed. Which makes your whole "theory" worthless.

It is a crime to knowingly infect someone. As it should be. If the disease is deadly then it is a felony. Obviously.

Anyone who has any kind of infectious, communicable, or contagious disease in California commits a crime if that person exposes him or herself to others. This crime is punishable as a misdemeanor offense. You also commit this crime if you knowingly expose someone else whom you know has such a disease to other people. (California Health and Safety Code section 120290.)

#162 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 11:49 AM | Reply

158 | Posted by WhiteDevil

Blather.

In your view, how much is one life worth?

It would be useful for planning.

#163 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 11:53 AM | Reply

-In your view, how much is one life worth?

If they die from COVID, or from a heart attack from smoking for 30 years?

Does that distinction matter to you? anyone?

#164 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 11:58 AM | Reply

In your view, how much is one life worth

#164 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 11:58 AM

I didn't call the question. Devil Blanche did.

Can we reduce that value to few enough pennies where monsters like Donald Trump and the Governors of Nebraska, Florida, and Arizona appear to be doing a good job with COVID?

That's what this line of argument is really about.

#165 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:04 PM | Reply

#158

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Ben Franklin

#166 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-05-21 12:06 PM | Reply

How many jobs is one life worth? A thousand?

Right now there are 413 jobs lost for every COVID death. Figure each job at an average of 25K or so, and that gives you $10,325,000. Or, about 10 times what the airlines pay to victims' families after an air crash. More than 20 times what a soldier's family gets when killed on duty.

Still not enough, though, according to you. We need more businesses to close, more millions of people to lose their jobs. Only that will show how concerned and committed we are.

#167 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 12:14 PM | Reply

"We could save countless lives by closing the country's gay bars, and tracking HIV positive people and requiring them to self-isolate. "

Correction. I think you meant that we could have saved even more lives just like Trump could have saved more lives if we had started contact tracing sooner. They do contact tracing for HIV now.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Your other examples are not contagious diseases so have no relation to his topic and are not worth addressing.

Too bad you have to lie to make a pointless point.

#168 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:17 PM | Reply

How many jobs is one life worth?

#167 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-

Tell us, WHITE DEVIL.

#169 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:20 PM | Reply

We need more businesses to close, more millions of people to lose their jobs. Only that will show how concerned and committed we are.

#167 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

No businesses need close. If they can be safe.

If appropriate precautions can be taken then you can open.

If we tested and contact traced properly it wouldn't even be a problem to open. If you can provide enough safe space between them then People would come out in droves. Because then we could protect ourselves.

You cannot fight an enemy or defend yourself from an enemy if you don't know where it is.

#170 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#167 | Posted by WhiteDevil

-----.

#171 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:22 PM | Reply

165
Say whatever you want Zed, but the governors of those states have done a much better job of protecting their old people than your blue-state governors have.

That must suck totally, to know that the death tolls, even after accounting for population and density, are 40x worse in NY and NJ and CT than in the Red-voting Sunbelt.

Cuomo for President!

#172 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 12:23 PM | Reply

Only that will show how concerned and committed we are.

#167 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 12:14 PMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

I don't think that you or any Trumpite is concerned and committed at all.

If other people could just be brave and die without complaint then Trump would win a second term.

You people are superficial maggots, and easy to see through.

#173 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:24 PM | Reply


Say whatever you want Zed

#172 | Posted by WhiteDevil

Thanks, WHITE DEVIL.

-----.

#174 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:25 PM | Reply

In your view, how much is one life worth?

It would be useful for planning.

#163 | POSTED BY ZED

They cannot give you an answer zed.

All they can respond with is talking points, quotes and platitudes.

If it was their own life on the line maybe they could answer it.

How many jobs is your life worth white devil ?

#175 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:27 PM | Reply

but the governors of those states have done a much better job of protecting their old people than your blue-state governors have.

#172 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05

The Republican governors of Florida, Nebraska, and other Red places are actively HIDING their COVID death rates, and or/actively LYING about them.

#176 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"That must suck totally, to know that the death tolls, even after accounting for population and density, are 40x worse in NY and NJ and CT than in the Red-voting Sunbelt. "

Hey. Troll. You know what sucks?

Knowing your President is not protecting you.

And having a President that negligently allowed those states to be attacked by a deadly foreign invader.

Way to protect your people Mr President!

Only 100,000 dead Americans. So far.

Trumpy and his Deplorables must be so proud!

#178 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:31 PM | Reply


Zed can call me a -----

#177 | Posted by WhiteDevil

You don't answer direct questions, even after you pose them.

#179 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:32 PM | Reply

#177 | Posted by WhiteDevil

You want the respect of being a real man while letting other people die.

Not sure it works that way.

#181 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:33 PM | Reply

So White Devil is a liar? And refuses to acknowledge his lies when confronted, just like all the other rightwing filth on this site?

Typical.

#182 | Posted by JOE at 2020-05-21 12:35 PM | Reply

If white devil wants respect here he is definitely doing it wrong.

#183 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:35 PM | Reply

Nothing stopping you scared Boomers from locking yourself in your house for the rest of your lives, assuming that's not what you're doing already. In fact, please do so..

#184 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2020-05-21 12:35 PM | Reply

-I didn't call the question.

-----

#185 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 12:35 PM | Reply

#173 | Posted by Zed, Speaking of actual superficial maggots, do you remember what had the attention of house Democrats when this pandemic started? What the MSM was concentrating on for the first two months of this virus spreading? An impeachment effort that went nowhere and has come back to bite them in their ass. Do you remember what the Chinese and the WHO was saying in early march? I do.

#186 | Posted by docnjo at 2020-05-21 12:36 PM | Reply

Cuomo for President!

#172 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

We should be so lucky.

#187 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:37 PM | Reply

-Zed can call me a -----, Reinheit can post---------- fantasies, and nothing happens, ever. Only righties get the hammer.

Upthread, Mathforth told you to go ---- yourself.

#188 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 12:37 PM | Reply

I do.
#186 | POSTED BY DOCNJO

So does Trump.

And for those of us who are interested in justice, checks, and balances, the impeachment of DJT was worth sacrificing Dem control of the House.

#189 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

y. In fact, please do so..

#184 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

We certainly don't need your permission to do anything.

We do the right thing in spite of you. Not because of you.

#190 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:38 PM | Reply

#177 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

Cry me a ------- river.

#191 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 12:39 PM | Reply

"The Republican governors of Florida, Nebraska, and other Red places are actively HIDING their COVID death rates, and or/actively LYING about them."

You can prove that anytime and when you do, re do the math to change the truth about the rates in NY, NJ, and CT compared to red states.

Look.....I'm not hammering those states for anything. I don't engage in blue/red state -------- arguments here.

But you do....so you deserve the grief.

#192 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 12:40 PM | Reply

the impeachment of DJT was worth sacrificing Dem control of the House.

#189 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 12:38 PM | Reply

Absolutely.

#193 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:41 PM | Reply

-If white devil wants respect here he is definitely doing it wrong.

well, it's not anybody would take advice from you on this subject.

#194 | Posted by eberly at 2020-05-21 12:41 PM | Reply

"An impeachment effort that went nowhere and has come back to bite them in their ass. "

Only thanks to corrupt republicans.

Who's ass is being bitten by the Impeachment of DJT?

Only Humpy's ass. And what an ass he is.

Donald J Trump is Impeached. Now and forever.

Only Humpy or his Deplorables would wear Impeachment as a badge of honor.

#196 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:43 PM | Reply

You guys have screwed over a generation of kids because you're scared to go outside. I'm not a -----. You are. Disgusting, old, fat, scared little -------.
#195 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

Triggered.

#197 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 12:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#173 | Posted by Zed, Speaking of actual superficial maggots, do you remember what had the attention of house Democrats when this pandemic started? What the MSM was concentrating on for the first two months of this virus spreading?

#186 | Posted by docnjo at 2020

If you want to blame the MSM, and Democrats, and China, and the WHO for COVID-19 (and you do)...

Then you're going to have to put Donald Trump's name in their somewhere and assign him some percentage of the blame.

That you won't do that is where equating Trump and Trumpism with blowflies and maggots comes in.

#198 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:45 PM | Reply

#192 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I don't know about hiding numbers, but there's now this:

Florida knew a COVID-19 pandemic was likely. State leaders didn't warn the public.
www.miamiherald.com

#199 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 12:46 PM | Reply

Scared old men who locked down the world so you wouldn't have to worry about getting sick.

#195 | Posted by WhiteDevil

Oh, go French kiss some stranger.

Idiot.

#200 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:46 PM | Reply

"I'm not a -----. You are. Disgusting, old, fat, scared little -------. "

Whaaaaa!

You sure sound like a whinny old -----.

You want to keep it down?

Your -------- is loud enough to hear all the way here in California.


#201 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:46 PM | Reply

Upthread, Mathforth told you to go ---- yourself.

#188 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Which was excellent advice. Thanks for reposting it for him.

That was so thoughtful of you.

#202 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 12:50 PM | Reply

"The impeachment of DJT was worth sacrificing Dem control of the House."

Was it?

It's virtually a given that the next Dem pres will get impeached. For something.

#203 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 12:51 PM | Reply

Was it?
It's virtually a given that the next Dem pres will get impeached. For something.
#203 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

-----------------.

#204 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 12:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Was it?

#203 | Posted by madbomber

Sure.

People in the Air Force get disciplined for much, much less than what Trump did.

YOU punish people for much less.

#205 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 12:53 PM | Reply

It's virtually a given that the next Dem pres will get impeached. For something.
#203 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Of course. It's been that way as long as I can remember.

The GOtP would have impeached Obama in a heartbeat. If they could have only found his Waterloo.

In fact, they would impeach Obama right now or even Un-President him if they only could! We can't let that Obama get off scott free like that!

But No Man can match Trumpy's superior level of moronic corruption. It's a weird level of corruption only a Stable Genius could reach. And right in front of everyone! In the history of presidents no President will be shown to match our Trumpy in his Trumptilian ways of lying right to our faces.

I don't know how many lives a job is worth but

17,000 lies = 100,000 dead.

#206 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 01:07 PM | Reply

Nothing stopping you scared Boomers from locking yourself in your house for the rest of your lives, assuming that's not what you're doing already.

You sound like one of the dopes who thinks wearing a mask in public is cowardly.

Boomers are staying home because coronavirus is killing tens of thousands of boomers.

The economy is suffering because of the pandemic. People were staying at home before lockdown orders and will be staying home after they are lifted if they have any choice at all in the matter.

It's stupid to insult people as "scared" for protecting themselves from a novel virus that has killed 328,000 people and infected 5 million.

All you're achieving with your phony bravery is to encourage more people to ignore the risk and die.

#207 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-21 01:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It's virtually a given that the next Dem pres will get impeached.

Not if Democrats keep the House, which is highly likely in any scenario where Biden wins.

#208 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-21 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Unlike Trump, Biden is not a criminal.

#209 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-05-21 01:15 PM | Reply

"The economy is suffering because of the pandemic."

The economy is suffering because the government demanded that people stay home, rather than let them decide whether or not the risk was worth the benefit.

Boomers can stay home, because they're retired. They've got theirs. But it's almost like they want to make sure that, if they're not out and able to live, no one should be.

#210 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 02:03 PM | Reply

"All you're achieving with your phony bravery is to encourage more people to ignore the risk and die."

That's OK.

This summer, thousands of new military officers will begin flight training. More of them will die in accidents than will die of COVID.

Should we stop training military aviators?

A smaller number of military personnel will begin some form of special operations training. Similarly, a greater number of those individuals will die in training than will die of COVID.

Nix that too?

A new worker in the oil fields (if there were any right now) would be more likely to die in a workplace accident than from COVID.

YOU get where I'm going with this...right?

#211 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 02:08 PM | Reply

"Unlike Trump, Biden is not a criminal."

If Trump is a criminal, you should McMichael his ass and conduct a citizens arrest.

I don't like Trump either, but quit being stupid.

#212 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-21 02:09 PM | Reply

- The economy is suffering because the government demanded that people stay home, rather than let them decide whether or not the risk was worth the benefit.

Had the gov not initiated, albeit tardily, social distancing and shelter in place policies the death toll would be much higher as even a glance at projections shows.

Of course, one would have to give a least one ---- about anyone other than themselves to take that glance.

#213 | Posted by Corky at 2020-05-21 02:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Also... the e'bil gubment demanding that people have auto ins and stop at red lights has got to be stopped!!

#214 | Posted by Corky at 2020-05-21 02:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not if Democrats keep the House, which is highly likely in any scenario where Biden wins.

#208 | POSTED BY RCADE

This is true. But they have to hold it. The odds are not forever in our favor.

#215 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 02:48 PM | Reply

Should we stop training military aviators?

#211 | Posted by madbomber

Will the aviators be wearing masks when they go into civilian bistros?

#216 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 02:54 PM | Reply

Boomers can stay home, because they're retired. They've got theirs. But it's almost like they want to make sure that, if they're not out and able to live, no one should be.

#210 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I actually had plans for my Boomer retirement. I retired to enjoy the benefits of 40 years of public service.

I am sure I did not want the rest of America to retire with me and make my retirement miserable and frankly it's quite annoying. I was planning on traveling and seeing our national parks seeing my family spread across this great land now that I am retired. But I can do none of the things that a retired person normally gets to do. ----. I hardly even get to use my senior discount!

Gee I guess even we boomers have to make sacrifices during a pandemic, too.

#217 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-05-21 02:58 PM | Reply

"We legally sanction hundreds of thousands of deaths each year in the country and will continue to do it."

Not really, when it's other people you're killing.

Drink yourself to death? Fine.

Drink and drive and potentially kill others? That's a serious crime even if no one gets injured.

Same with communicable diseases. People have been sent to prison for knowingly spreading HIV.

Why should coronavirus be any different?

#218 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 02:59 PM | Reply

I don't like Trump either, but quit being stupid.
#212 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You're denying Trunp is a criminal. Quit being stupid.

#219 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Boomers can stay home, because they're retired. They've got theirs. But it's almost like they want to make sure that, if they're not out and able to live, no one should be.

#210 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

This is stupid.

Take as few precautions against COVID as you like, as long as you don't endanger me and mine.

Let's see how you do it.

#220 | Posted by Zed at 2020-05-21 03:03 PM | Reply

Wanna know how to solve the pandemic? Give every human a cyanide capsule.
#100 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Nevermind. You can't quit being stupid.

I wonder what happened to you, that made you this way.

#221 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This summer, thousands of new military officers will begin flight training. More of them will die in accidents than will die of COVID."

Will they spread accidents to the people around them too? Or will they auger into an empty field, Shanksville style?

Remarkably stupid comparison to make.

It's the chance to be stupid today, which gets MadBomber out of bed in the morning.

#222 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:09 PM | Reply

YOU get where I'm going with this...right?
#211 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Why are folks like you constantly comparing a pandemic to deaths caused by context involving choice and will?

Those rookie aviators CHOSE to enter that line of work, taking on the risk knowingly. Just like those who step into a vehicle and drive on the highway. Chosen, willful risk taking.

This pandemic is not that. So stop making insincere comparisons that do not progress the discussion in any way whatsoever.

#223 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-05-21 03:24 PM | Reply

#223 His intent is clearly to derail the conversation.

It's signal jamming. It's a pretty common tactic. Heck it might even be in Alinsky's book someplace.

#224 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:28 PM | Reply

In California it's not against the law to knowingly infect another person with an STD.
#158 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

You lie.

#225 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:34 PM | Reply

"What the MSM was concentrating on for the first two months of this virus spreading?"

The first two months: You mean even before Trump called it a Democrat Hoax?

#226 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:37 PM | Reply

"I think you're willing to sacrifice the livelihoods of tens of millions of people so that you can feel more secure."

Better their livelihoods than their lives.

It really says a lot about conservatives how they value other people's Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness, over other people's Life itself.

#227 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 03:39 PM | Reply

The whole premise of this thread is absurd. There is no acceptable price for any one life.The whole question is stupid.

#228 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-05-21 04:13 PM | Reply

There is no acceptable price for any one life.
#228 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Sure there is.

Survivors of Americans killed in plane crashes get about $2 million.

Survivors of civilians killed in Afganistan got about $500 as I recall.

#229 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 04:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"We could save countless lives by closing the country's gay bars, and tracking HIV positive people and requiring them to self-isolate."

We did in fact close the bath houses when HIV started in the 80s. And HIV patients didn't have to self-isolate, people treated them like pariahs. First Lady Barbara Bush made global headlines by holding a HIV positive infant to help end that stigma. (Unfortunately a baby with coronavirus isn't going to be safe to hold.)

But here you are, arguing against a targeted approach to reduce vectors for this virus.

China has done better fighting this thing, certainly in terms of saving lives, and probably in saving their economy too.

#230 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 04:31 PM | Reply

The economy is suffering because the government demanded that people stay home ...

Americans were staying home before government got involved. We saw what was happening in Northern Italy and we understood what exponential growth means.

You still don't if you think people can just tough it out and go back to normal behavior.

Needing the economy to be back doesn't magically make it come back. The pandemic has to be controlled.

#231 | Posted by rcade at 2020-05-21 05:38 PM | Reply

In California it's not against the law to knowingly infect another person with an STD.
#158 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

Anyone who has any kind of infectious, communicable, or contagious disease in California commits a crime if that person exposes him or herself to others. This crime is punishable as a misdemeanor offense. You also commit this crime if you knowingly expose someone else whom you know has such a disease to other people.

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com

#232 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-21 06:20 PM | Reply

All you're achieving with your phony bravery is to encourage more people to ignore the risk and die.
#207 | POSTED BY RCADE

That's because the GOP is a death cult.

#233 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-21 07:42 PM | Reply

"Had the gov not initiated, albeit tardily, social distancing and shelter in place policies the death toll would be much higher as even a glance at projections shows."

Yes, there probably would have been more dead old, sickly people. but the shelter in place orders should have been for them-not for everyone else.

What value is there in quarantining those who are at little to no risk when you can quarantine those who are at risk?

#234 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-22 04:59 AM | Reply

"Will the aviators be wearing masks when they go into civilian bistros?"

I don't know why they would. Statistically they have almost no chance of dying from COVID.

#235 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-22 05:00 AM | Reply

"Why are folks like you constantly comparing a pandemic to deaths caused by context involving choice and will?"

Because it is based on choice.

If you're at risk, you choose to go out. You don't have to. And when you do go out, it's pretty easy to protect yourself from others.

Why does this confuse you guys so much?

#236 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-22 05:02 AM | Reply

"The whole premise of this thread is absurd. There is no acceptable price for any one life.The whole question is stupid."

Do you not think that a person should have the ability to choose what they do with their life? Based on your comment, which itself is absurd, no one should be allowed to do anything where the risk to life was greater >0.

#237 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-05-22 05:05 AM | Reply

If you're at risk, you choose to go out. You don't have to. And when you do go out, it's pretty easy to protect yourself from others.

MADBOMBER

We're ALL at risk. This virus is causing all kinds of serious medical conditions, some of them permanent. Too many won't wear masks or take rudimentary measures. 35% of people testing positive in the U.S. (600,000) were asymptomatic. They've had no idea they were carrying and spreading it. That hasn't ended.

The U.S. has so far had only 1,750,000 positive cases. But that's because we social distanced like crazy for a month (starting weeks too late). If we return to 'life as usual' and take this virus for granted, 1.7 million cases will look like a small total in no time at all. We're only at the end of the beginning.

The Spanish Flu pandemic followed the same trajectory of diminishing after a lockdown only to return with a vengeance after everyone let their guard down, thinking the worst was over.

#238 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-22 07:08 AM | Reply

What value is there in quarantining those who are at little to no risk when you can quarantine those who are at risk?

Posted by madbomber

The more they learn about this virus, the more the 'at risk' threat widens. It isn't just causing death, and not just among the elderly, it's now known to cause organ damage in people (and children) who were perfectly healthy before they caught it.

#239 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-05-22 07:17 AM | Reply

Do you not think that a person should have the ability to choose what they do with their life?
#237 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

For example, let's say what you want to do with your life is spread your deadly contagious incurable disease to others.
Should a person have that right?

#240 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-05-22 09:20 AM | Reply

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