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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, June 28, 2020

It's another one of those Trump Era realities best described as unsurprising but nevertheless shocking. Three serious research efforts have put numerical weight -- yes, data-driven evidence -- behind what many suspected all along: Americans who relied on Fox News, or similar right-wing sources, were duped as the coronavirus began its deadly spread. Dangerously duped.

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The studies "paint a picture of a media ecosystem that amplifies misinformation, entertains conspiracy theories and discourages audiences from taking concrete steps to protect themselves and others," wrote my colleague Christopher Ingraham in an analysis last week.

Those who relied on mainstream sources " the network evening newscasts or national newspapers that President Trump constantly blasts as "fake news" " got an accurate assessment of the pandemic's risks. Those were the news consumers who were more likely to respond accordingly, protecting themselves and others against the disease that has now killed more than 123,000 in the United States with no end in sight.

And in other breaking fake news, water is wet, fat meat is greasy, and the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. Official White House Press Secretary Lie Candy refused to comment, saying that President Trump was not briefed on these matters and knows nothing about them, blaming the Intelligence Community for this oversight.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-28 04:54 PM | Reply

Come on....let's be honest.

The problem is Americans.

We are the most arrogant self-centered humans on this planet.

Look at Scandinavian countries or even China.

They are different from each other but have one thing in common.

They aren't a bunch of egotistical maniacs.

History is going to look back and blame Americans themselves and their lack of community and cohesiveness for virus spreading.

The truth is we are doing it to ourselves and living in denial about this fact is just blind and fooling yourself.

What is going on at the beaches is prime example of what is wrong with America.

Me. Me. Me....

You think those beach goers are a bunch of Fox watching neanderthals.

No...they are young liberals who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Simply America's problem is Americans.

Just that simple.

#2 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-28 05:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Fox has a long history of being antiscience.

#3 | Posted by Tor at 2020-06-28 05:23 PM | Reply

#2 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

That's a wonderful description of conservatives.

Most liberals I know are empathetic.

#4 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-06-28 05:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

What Clownshack said.

#5 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-28 05:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

History is going to look back and blame Americans themselves and their lack of community and cohesiveness for virus spreading.

From moment one of this pandemic, many of us immediately knew that sickness, devastation and death would follow. This virus was a complete unknown when it started and almost daily new information would come out - oftentimes contradicting what was thought to be true even the day before.

At first, it seemed the pressing focus was on what each of us as individuals could do to protect ourselves from exposure to the virus, and due to the lack of PPE for our front line professionals caring for the ill, protective masking was largely unavailable to the general public. People were asked not to buy N95 masks or if they had masks to donate them to hospitals and first responders - the people most responsible for taking care of infected citizens. This was a selfless ask, an ask of putting the most needy ahead of everyone else.

The current mask controversy is very simple - people are asked to wear masks to protect others, and if everyone follows suit that will in turn protect all of us. This kind of selflessness and sacrifice is what Americans have always done when called to duty - until now. So no, just like Clownshack said, without the selfish narcissist ignoramus at the head of our government there would never have been any controversy about doing something so simple to protect ourselves and each other from the scourge of a virus with no effective vaccine or treatment.

So don't blame Americans, blame the person who exhibits the most anti-American behavior of all.

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-28 06:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Come on....let's be honest.
The problem is Americans."

Don't lump me in with those Deplorables not wearing masks.

The problem with America is a few bad apples have spolied the whole barrel.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-28 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Tony,

The people at the beaches deserve full responsibility for their own behavior.

They are but a microcosm of the American way of life.

People today have fully developed routines for blaming others for their own failures.

They've been taught well.

#8 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-28 07:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"No...they are young liberals who talk the talk but don't walk the walk."

Seriously...where, exactly, do you come up with idiotic garbage like this?

The 700 Club?

#9 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-06-28 09:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Without some kind of blanket liability waiver from Congress, Fox News will have to go out of business from the weight of the civil liability lawsuits headed their way.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-28 09:49 PM | Reply

Angry,

Looking through your posts I see the only thing you do is insult people and troll.

Why not actually post something you think or believe for yourself and let others have a chance to read it?

#11 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-28 10:19 PM | Reply

#11 Don't sell him short. He flags comments too!

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-28 10:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Snoofy,

Ohhhh....Ahhhh....

#13 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-28 10:23 PM | Reply

I love AngryDad.
His rejoinders are succinct.

#14 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-28 11:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'd rather have an AngrxDad than an AngryDud.

#15 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-28 11:29 PM | Reply

More weight,please.

#16 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-06-28 11:47 PM | Reply

"People today have fully developed routines for blaming others for their own failures."

He says...right after blaming "liberals".

It's like the comedy writes itself.

#17 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-06-29 02:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

The EU is 2x larger than we are and have less than 10% of the COVID-19 we do.

Good leadership and a citizenry who follow the science vs the U.S. with a COVID-19 denier as president and followers who don't believe in the science and won't take simple measures to protect themselves and others from COVID.

And a propaganda network to tell them taking mitigation efforts is a political statement, so they don't care about their own health or the health of others they may infect.

#18 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-06-29 04:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#11 | Posted by BillJohnson

So, in other words, you just pulled that crap out of your butt-mouth.

You deserve nothing but trolling, anus-face.

#19 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-06-29 08:02 AM | Reply

#12 | Posted by snoofy

Daaaang...

Yer just mean...LOL!

#20 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-06-29 08:04 AM | Reply

Dan,

I don't blame liberals for my mistakes.

Try again.

#21 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 08:21 AM | Reply

So lets go further, the shutdown was to give the hospitals a chance to get needed supplies together, not shut down the country until a vaccine is developed. 80% of the population will experience flu like symptoms with the 20% having serious complications. Unless we have exposure to the virus our bodies cannot envelop resistance to it, don't believe me ask a doctor. Masks are relatively ineffective for prolonged use according to OSHA. ALL news outlets are encouraging masks and social distancing. At some point you are going to have to come out of your house, and will be exposed to the virus.

Idiot fake news praises the protestors, that are violating the social distancing, but vilify the president for holding a rally, sorry fake news you cannot have it both ways.

#22 | Posted by gtjr at 2020-06-29 08:47 AM | Reply

The problem is not the beaches, it is the younger crowd that is going to bars and not keeping social distance, that includes everybody, right thru left. As has been said on this post, the problem is the younger crowd that feels invincible. Actually the virus has a half life in the sun of just a few seconds, it is what happens after dark that is the problem.

#23 | Posted by gtjr at 2020-06-29 08:54 AM | Reply

Uh your facts are incorrect, the only important statistic is death per 100000 citizens. The U.S. is doing a great job in that respect. Takeout the murderous political hacks like Cuomo that allowed the virus into the nursing homes effectively signing a death warrant for those in the homes we have not done too bad. Europe and other countries are not ahead of the U.S. but behind.

#24 | Posted by gtjr at 2020-06-29 09:01 AM | Reply

IS GTJR the new STC_916? Same talking points.

#25 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-06-29 09:07 AM | Reply

the only important statistic is death per 100000 citizens

Reframing the pandemic so you can sort of save some face?

You are an idiot.

#26 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 09:07 AM | Reply

Gal, who knows.
Those pathetic right-wingers whose admitted coordinated whine campaign failed so they all stormed off are trying apparently trying a new tactic.
They were worthless before, they haven't improved in their absence, and they sure didn't become any more intelligent.

#27 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 09:10 AM | Reply

-Reframing the pandemic so you can sort of save some face?

what do you mean "save some face"?

#28 | Posted by eberly at 2020-06-29 09:11 AM | Reply

Yav, they just keep repeating the same talking points even after those points have been debunked. That's not a new tactic. It's the same old, same old but with "new" posters.

#29 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-06-29 09:13 AM | Reply

Good morning, Eb.
I mean people like GTJR will point to that number and claim some kind of victory and gloss over all those that have died, that we've lost. That the "deaths per 10000 will be trumpeted as stablizaing because the rate will drop as the age drops. They'll claim it as some sort of vindication, and they'll ignore the loss those that survive but are counted as "recovered" may have to deal with the rest of their lives. They will choose, as the only metric that matters, "death per 100000" and ignore everything else. The economic damage, what could have been saved with a decent response (like S. Korea, etc.). The mental health of so many, and so much more.

And I'll be accused again of wanting the death toll to increase because of what I just said when I am horrified and angry about that we can't get our s**t together on this.

#30 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 09:20 AM | Reply

Gal - so right!

#31 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 09:22 AM | Reply

"I don't blame liberals for my mistakes."

You're joking, right? Reread your post as many times as it takes.

#32 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-06-29 09:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"...the only important statistic is death per 100000 citizens"

What moron told you that?

#33 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-06-29 09:24 AM | Reply

"I mean people like GTJR will point to that number and claim some kind of victory.."

Oh, I didn't see that's where GTJR was going with it.

There's really no upside to anything but we'll (not me) be arguing over stats like this for the next 5 years.

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2020-06-29 09:27 AM | Reply

"So lets go further, the shutdown was to give the hospitals a chance to get needed supplies together"

The reason for flattening the curve wasn't just so hospitals had a chance to get need supplies together. It was so that hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed with too many patients because so many people were getting sick at one time.

#35 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-06-29 09:39 AM | Reply

Regarding flattening the curve, now that we've seen what happens in other countries and how effective some mitigation techniques actually are, we now know that we can drive the R0 number to less than 1. If we can do that, we can drop the infection rate to next to nothing. If that happens, we can "burn out" this pandemic temporarily until we can develop a vaccine.

#36 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 09:54 AM | Reply

Dan,

I can chat with anyone who wants to challenge my opinions.

But I can't tolerate anyone who accuses me of having attitudes I don't have.

I do blame liberals for certain problems in society but my mistakes are my own.

I will not waste any time with you.

I will not respond to you again.

#37 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 10:13 AM | Reply

"I do blame liberals for certain problems in society"

Do you blame liberals for the COVID-19 problem in society?

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 10:15 AM | Reply

the only important statistic is death per 100000 citizens. The U.S. is doing a great job in that respect

We are literally doing terrible in that metric. Why are you lying?

#39 | Posted by JOE at 2020-06-29 10:24 AM | Reply

"Takeout the murderous political hacks like Cuomo that allowed the virus into the nursing homes effectively signing a death warrant for those in the homes we have not done too bad."

Take out young black men and America doesn't have nearly as bad a gun violence problem.

Take out September 11, 2001 and there have not been very many successful 9/11 style terror attacks on America.

Take out Challenger and Columbia and the Space Shuttle has a 100% safety rating.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 10:30 AM | Reply

We are literally doing terrible in that metric. Why are you lying?

Well yeah. There is that.

#41 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 10:39 AM | Reply

Bill Johnson,

You are in denial.

Simply put America's problem is Trumpism and the ignorance it breeds.

And anyone who supports it.

The man is Criminally Negligent.

And Fox News is aiding and abetting by repeating Trumps lies and not challenging him on them.

#42 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-06-29 11:27 AM | Reply

I'm gonna give Bill at least partial credit. The young people I see out here in Manhattan hanging out in crowds at bars and restaurants without masks are almost certainly not Trump supporters or Fox News watchers. Just your garden variety self centered a holes. And yeah, most of them are going to vote blue in November. That doesn't let Trump or Fox off the hook. This binary way we discuss issues around here can often do a disservice to us all.

#43 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-06-29 11:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Simply put America's problem is Trumpism and the ignorance it breeds.

Every single problem American has existed before Trump and it will continue to exist after Trump.

That's no defense for Trump and his choice to throw gas on a fire that was already burning but Trump didn't create the "ignorance". He's leveraged it, stoked it, hell...even praised it and given it credibility in the eyes of the ignorant.

Face it...you hate conservatives. You hate who they vote for. That hate in your heart didn't begin with Trump anymore than the hatred in the heart of a racist beginning with Trump.

#44 | Posted by eberly at 2020-06-29 11:41 AM | Reply

Yes Fox is a huge part of the problem in this case and many others. Any blind deaf person should be able to see that.

#45 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-06-29 11:47 AM | Reply

45

so is the internet and talk radio. It's many factors.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2020-06-29 11:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy,

"Do you blame liberals for the COVID-19 problem in society?"

No...I blame China.

#47 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 12:04 PM | Reply

No...I blame China.

#47 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

China runs our country now?

China is not responsible for our failure of leadership.

I blame the idiots in charge of protecting America from all enemies foreign and domestic.

#48 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-06-29 12:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Donner,

Who's in denial??

#49 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 12:12 PM | Reply

#49 - You're looking for a scapegoat so you can be a victim. Again. It can't be Trump and his administrations completely botched approach.

Hey Bill, do you remember when I compared South Korea's response versus our, and what our numbers would be if we had taken this seriously? The numbers are much worse now from June 16th when I did it, so I may redo it, but here they are from June 16th:

June 16th: Based on the ratio of population of S. Korea and the U.S., below are how the numbers would translate if we had handled this as S. Korea:
Confirmed Cases:
South Korea would be: 77,028 compared to the US' 2,160,000
Recovered:
South Korea would be: 68,188 compared to the US' 674,000
Deaths:
South Korea would be: 1,762 compared to the US' 118,000

That's the things like Trump, and Fox, and right-wing media, and electing people that put incompetent people in charge does.

#50 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 12:42 PM | Reply

#2 - Thanks for your Russian perspective.

#51 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2020-06-29 12:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I'm gonna give Bill at least partial credit. The young people I see out here in Manhattan hanging out in crowds at bars and restaurants without masks are almost certainly not Trump supporters or Fox News watchers. Just your garden variety self centered a holes. And yeah, most of them are going to vote blue in November. That doesn't let Trump or Fox off the hook. This binary way we discuss issues around here can often do a disservice to us all.

#43 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-06-29 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Totally agree. There are many factors that go into making bad or selfish choices. Fox and Trump lead the way daily, but they don't own the category.

#52 | Posted by cbob at 2020-06-29 12:51 PM | Reply

Come on....let's be honest.
The problem is Americans.
We are the most arrogant self-centered humans on this planet.
Look at Scandinavian countries or even China.
They are different from each other but have one thing in common.
They aren't a bunch of egotistical maniacs.
History is going to look back and blame Americans themselves and their lack of community and cohesiveness for virus spreading.
The truth is we are doing it to ourselves and living in denial about this fact is just blind and fooling yourself.
What is going on at the beaches is prime example of what is wrong with America.
Me. Me. Me....
You think those beach goers are a bunch of Fox watching neanderthals.
No...they are young liberals who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
Simply America's problem is Americans.
Just that simple.

#2 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Funny you mention that... It's Conservatives who watch Fox News who refuse to wear masks and then protest shutdowns. You don't see liberals doing that.

You're a typical Republican: First you refuse to listen to facts and take necessary steps because the liberals want it. Then you pretend its everyone's fault.

News Flash, Genius: Countries and States that listened to health officials either contained the virus or are seeing declining infection rates. Countries and States that ignored it are now seeing exploding rates and full ICUs.

#53 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-06-29 12:58 PM | Reply

No...I blame China.

#47 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Why?

Countries that took the virus seriously immediately have done far better than us.

If I see an idiot driving on the wrong side of the road, I pull off the road to avoid an accident, and blame the other driver for the inconvenience.

If Trumpers like you see an idiot driving on the wrong side of the road, they speed up, get into an accident, and blame the other driver for the car accident.

#54 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-06-29 01:03 PM | Reply

onner,

Who's in denial??

#49 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Did I stutter ?

You and your fellow Deplorables are in denial.

Most Americans are good people trying to do the right thing.

Then there are the Deplorables.

A few bad apples spoiling the whole barrel.

#55 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-06-29 01:14 PM | Reply

"I blame China."

For our response.

Does South Korea blame China, too? Or in that case, would China get the credit?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-06-29 01:15 PM | Reply

No...I blame China.
#47 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON
Why?

Because he says he hates Trump but he can't bring himself to hold Trump or the GOP responsible for anything.

China isn't the one who kept our borders open and allowed the virus to come here.

Blaming China vs. demanding accountability from your own government sums up Right vs. Left quite nicely.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#54 - Sycophant!

YES!!

#58 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-29 03:13 PM | Reply

Sort of like people who put the blame on the woman who is raped for not being responsible, I see a similar line of thinking.

China did this but the victim is getting the blame.

#59 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 03:23 PM | Reply

China did this but the victim is getting the blame.
#59 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Yo trumpet.

The virus is not Chinese. It has no nationality.

China is a victim too.

Unless China created the virus and released it onto itself in order to eventually get at America.

Is that what you Q deplorables believe?

I wouldn't be surprised if you do.

#60 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-06-29 03:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You think those beach goers are a bunch of Fox watching neanderthals.
No...they are young liberals who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON
Followed by
I can't tolerate anyone who accuses me of having attitudes I don't have.
POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON
Just LMAO. You're a clown, dude.

#61 | Posted by JOE at 2020-06-29 04:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That embedded video.. Dr Oz saying that 2% mortality is to be expected opening schools, and that the idea is "very appetizing".. I'm stunned.

Sort of like people who put the blame on the woman who is raped for not being responsible, I see a similar line of thinking.
China did this but the victim is getting the blame.
#59 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-06-29 03:23 PM

What evidence has the Trump administration demonstrated an interest in tackling this issue when other nations were beginning their quarantenes?

I seem to recall something about "the number of cases will go down to zero", how did that compute seeing the curve abroad? And not instigating the war powers for ventilator, test materials, labs and mask production at minimum? Jarod announced that the Federal stockpile was not for distribution to the states, but for their administration?! No masks visiting mask production sites and a constant at-odds with professional advice mentality coupled with the INSANE tweets from a very ingenuine, insincere and ignorant "President" lead any sane person to conclude that the "victimizing" is of you. The stupid people. Those who would follow this man into Hell, slurping up the Fox spin because it's somehow comforting to absorb Hannity, Ingram and Gutfeld. You who don't wear masks in public - it really doesn't matter why. Who gather and breathe each others exhalation, but you know you are told that is risking infection - still you gather and co-infect regardless. Given your victimhood it's understandable an explanation of victimizer China checks a bunch of boxes off - racism, economy and Hillary. You spineless idiots. China has many problems and a Trump ain't one of 'em.

#62 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-06-29 04:11 PM | Reply

China did this but the victim is getting the blame.
#59 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

China did what, exactly?
If China did something to us, what was it?
???

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 04:17 PM | Reply

"Sort of like people who put the blame on the woman who is raped for not being responsible, I see a similar line of thinking."

Rape is a very serious offense.
So if China sort of like raped us, why aren't you browbeating Trump to punish them?
What does it say about you that you don't find fault with Trump for letting China sort of like rape us and kill 120,000+ of us?
???

You live in a state of cognitive dissonance. Some aspect of you knows this. It's why you tell people you won't be responding to them any more, when the questions get too hard.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 04:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I don't blame liberals for my mistakes.
#21 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

^
You blame China for Trump's mistakes.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 05:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bill Johnson has drank the FlavorAid. He's beyond help at this point.

#66 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-29 05:24 PM | Reply

One simple question Bill: If a never before coronavirus was discovered inside the US, just what do you think Trump's response would have been when the scientists told him that he had to immediately close off all travel in and out of this country and isolate and quarantine the entire nation - since with the way Americans travel both in and outside this country, there is no way scientists would have identified the virus before infected individuals would have moved freely and spread it beyond its point of origin?

Before you criticize China, imagine how much worse the spread would have been if the world depended upon Trump to shut down his "beautiful economy" as China did for the sake of stopping a global pandemic. Trump wouldn't even take the proven steps necessary to minimize the virus' impact given weeks and months of advance notice. There is no way he would have done anything but try to squelch the scientists and claim that CV was a simple flu and nothing to worry about as the US would have set the world on fire worse than China ever could have imo.

#67 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-29 05:39 PM | Reply

Tony,

This virus wasn't an accident. It was negligence. China had a lab that was working with it which made them 100% responsible for everyone's safety.

Considering this was China and given it's history, I seriously have my doubts they were forthcoming with information, honest and could be trusted to provide information that would put them in a bad light.

Any other country and if it was simply an accident, I would be less inclined to use words like victim and responsible.

#68 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 06:33 PM | Reply

Bill Johnson a water carrier for Trump.

#69 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-29 06:43 PM | Reply

China had a lab that was working with it which made them 100% responsible for everyone's safety.

The virus was not created in a lab, it came from nature. Science has proven this by its genetic profile. While China dithered, the point is that simply by judging Trump AFTER he was given all the information to prepare America, he did worse. He thought that banning travel from China would stop its spread and the worst strain of the virus came from Europe through NYC, not China through the West Coast. And after the ban, another 43,000 individuals still entered the US from other countries after leaving China.

In no way am I trying to minimize China's fault in all this, but in turn you have to give them credit for how they responded in basically quarantining an entire region and later Beijing while Trump wouldn't even order production of needed PPE.

I guess my feelings are that viral pandemics happen and once out, there is very little that can be done short of draconian shutdowns to limit their spread. The virus doesn't recognize nation states and boundaries. The Chinese government dictated their response to localized outbreaks federally, something Trump refused to do. There is no reason to think that if the virus had started here in America (like the 1918 pandemic did) its global spread would have been worse than it was even though China tried to initially minimize the outbreak.

#70 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-29 06:46 PM | Reply

...would NOT have been worse....

#71 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-29 06:48 PM | Reply

I mean....the woman might have dressed sexy and had too much to drink but at the end of the day it's the guy fault.

Trying to shift his guilt onto her is manipulative.

And now liberals are being opportunist trying to capitalize on human suffering.

Sure...it can be argued she is culpable, but ultimately he is 100% responsible.

#72 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 06:48 PM | Reply

Tony,

"working with"

Try again.

#73 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 06:49 PM | Reply

Tony,

And really....do you think Hillary would have done much better?

I mean...like she has some great rapport with the Chinese?

Hindsight...I'm sure there's lots of things that could have should have been done differently.

But at the end of the day...we'll just never know what different problems we might have today under Hillary.

The virus would have come no matter what and she wouldn't have any more resources than Trump did.

People knew they needed to isolate. It's not like this is the first virus we've ever heard of.

Like I've said before, Americans are some pretty hard headed people who don't like to be told what to do.

#74 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 07:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

do you think Hillary would have done much better?

Yes.

Anyone one of the Republican or Democratic candidates running for president in 2016 would have done a better job.

#75 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-06-29 07:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Tony,

"there is very little that can be done short of draconian shutdowns to limit their spread."

I'm not making excuses but I saying my opinion.

What you suggest is pretty severe solutions and really if we did something like that and it didn't get that bad, then we'd be complaining about that.

Really...I can't speak for anyone else but in my mind I think there's a part of me that would want to wait and just see where things go and respond accordingly and perhaps be reluctant to take too strong of preventive measures.

I am aware of economics and business and I suspected early on this would be a terrible problem hurting a lot more people than were actually sick.

At some point you have to wonder which is worse, the sickness or the cure.

#76 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 07:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"do you think Hillary would have done much better?"

Which countries have done as bad or worse than the US?
What do you notice about the political leanings of their leadership?

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 07:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I mean....the woman might have dressed sexy and had too much to drink but at the end of the day it's the guy fault."

The USA dressed sexy for the virus, then?

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 07:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Snoofy,

Analogy....I think you're like the children Mr. Rogers talked about how he had to be careful writing his shows because little children are so literal.

No...the USA never wore a dress and went on a date.

aaaahhh....

#79 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 07:21 PM | Reply

Only a dummkoft would take a wait and see approach. It's too late to seal a bag of flour with a hole at the bottom when it's all on the floor.

#80 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-29 07:23 PM | Reply

"No...the USA never wore a dress and went on a date."

So, what did China do to us, exactly?

And why aren't you upset with Trump for letting it happen, and then not doing anything about it?

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 07:26 PM | Reply

At some point you have to wonder which is worse, the sickness or the cure.
#76 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You working, then?

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 07:26 PM | Reply

What you suggest is pretty severe solutions and really if we did something like that and it didn't get that bad, then we'd be complaining about that.

Really...I can't speak for anyone else but in my mind I think there's a part of me that would want to wait and just see where things go and respond accordingly and perhaps be reluctant to take too strong of preventive measures.

Well, at least you're honest so I'll give you that. Bill we already KNEW what was going to happen because it happened in 1918-19. Novel coronavirus with no vaccine and no medical treatment will continue to spread until it runs out of new hosts. This is why the term "going viral" exists in our lexicon. It means growing exponentially. That's what viruses do unless something stops them.

Without a medical option the only other effective method of stopping spread is by keeping the uninfected away from the virus by isolating populations as New Zealand did. That's the only option. Waiting to see what happens leads a country with 4% of the world's population to have 25% of the global deaths so far and almost 1/3 of all infections. If we had done what South Korea did we would not have had to completely shut down the economy but that would have meant immediately activating massive and repeated testing protocols, isolation of the infected, contact tracing and quarantining and constant temperature monitoring and strict social distancing practices.

There is never any wonder whether the sickness is worse than the cure. It always is when we're talking viral pandemics with no medical vaccine or curatives available.

#83 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-29 07:34 PM | Reply

At some point you have to wonder which is worse, the sickness or the cure.
#76 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You should go ask the families of those who have died from the virus.

Play your, "Blame China, but Hillary." Game with them.

You're worse of a garbage human being than I had previously imagined.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-06-29 08:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

BillJohnson does this thing where if he uses polite language and refrains from cursing and name calling, he thinks it gives him the moral high ground.

He puts the "Please" in "Papers, please."

JeffJ was the exact same way, when he wasn't accusing people of being not just partisans by hyper-partisans, while excusing partisans on his side for acting like partisans.

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-29 08:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hindsight...I'm sure there's lots of things that could have should have been done differently.

That was called "foresight" in the dozens of other countries who have managed to flatten the curve. It's only "hindsight" to an imbecile.

#86 | Posted by JOE at 2020-06-29 10:19 PM | Reply

Honestly, I don't think Trump could have responded to this pandemic any worse if he tried. And part of me wonders if that's exactly his goal. Spending months downplaying the problem and failing to take action, sending 17.2 tons of PPE to China, pitting states against one another for vital supplies, wasting the months we were closed, deliberately turning lifesaving measures like closure orders and masks into a political issue...he's destroying America and I wouldn't be at all surprised if these were direct orders from a smart person who wants to see America die.

#87 | Posted by JOE at 2020-06-29 10:26 PM | Reply

JOE

You're not the only on who thinks that. He didn't invent the pandemic but he sure seems to be exploiting it.

I can only think of one beneficiary. RUSSIA

#88 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-06-29 10:33 PM | Reply

Joe,

I agree with you.

Things have not been handled as well as they could have.

#89 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 11:00 PM | Reply

Joe,

But your extreme view "couldn't have handled any worse", I don't know.

#90 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 11:03 PM | Reply

Joe,

I have been surprised at the severity of the impact from shutting down the economy.

I suspected trouble but not to this degree.

Here's my question. Provide some clear answers for me since you sound knowledgable.

How would shutting down the economy earlier have changed the current unemployment situation?

Would things have been any better or would we just be further along in this economic mess today?

Until we have a remedy to the virus I don't see how the economic impact would have been that different.

Somehow the stock market is hanging in there and any person who has any money in it I'm sure is glad.

What could Hillary have done that would have changed the economic crisis?

#91 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-29 11:28 PM | Reply

You're more worried about the economy more than peoples lives. You need to check your priorities Bill. If we all would have locked down much sooner we could have nipped a lot of sufering in the bud. Too bad right wingers were selfish and put money ahead of peoples lives.

#92 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-29 11:51 PM | Reply

" your extreme view "couldn't have handled any worse", I don't know."

Compare Trump's reaction to South Korea's...and then see if you "know".

#93 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-06-29 11:54 PM | Reply

" What could Hillary have done that would have changed the economic crisis?"

Taken it seriously, not wasted February and half of March, and had America react like the countries currently reopening.

#94 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-06-29 11:56 PM | Reply

Why is BILL JOHNSON asking so many "what if" questions?

#95 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-06-30 12:04 AM | Reply

How would shutting down the economy earlier have changed the current unemployment situation?

If America had a functioning first-world social safety net we wouldn't be forced into that false dilemma. Plenty of countries were able to close and competently remain closed until the outbreak was contained because (1) their workers had an adequate safety net to catch them and (2) they didn't have a demagogue undermining the entire process from the beginning.

Your question presumes that the only thing anyone cares about is "the economy." But shutting it down just one week earlier would have saved 36,000 lives. You can't work if you're dead.

At the end of the day, there are tangible answers to your questions to be found in the dozens of nations that have flattened the curve. You'll find that all of them took the virus more seriously than Trump did from the beginning and that many of them are now safely reopening instead of the hatchet job we've been left with. Once again - this is not "hindsight" - pandemic response is a time tested science and we had the information available to us and ignored it.

#96 | Posted by JOE at 2020-06-30 04:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Laura,

"You're more worried about the economy more than peoples lives."

In the proverbial words of Archie Bunker to his son in law who accused him of caring more for things than people,

"You'd feel that way too if you had anything"

My words to you,
Meathead, the economy IS people's lives.

#97 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 06:41 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Well you can't economy the economy if you're dead.

#98 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-30 08:08 AM | Reply

It's not either "this" or it's "that."

Framing it as such is disingenuous.

Besides, what good is the economy if you're dead.

#99 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-30 08:16 AM | Reply

Exactly, Laura.

#100 | Posted by YAV at 2020-06-30 08:16 AM | Reply

GOLDMAN SACHS: "We find a national [facemask] mandate could ... cut the daily growth rate of confirmed cases by 1.0pp to 0.6% ... a face mask mandate could potentially substitute for lockdowns that would otherwise subtract nearly 5% from GDP."

twitter.com

#101 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-06-30 08:20 AM | Reply

GOLDMAN SACHS: "We find a national [facemask] mandate could ... cut the daily growth rate of confirmed cases by 1.0pp to 0.6% ... a face mask mandate could potentially substitute for lockdowns that would otherwise subtract nearly 5% from GDP."

twitter.com

#102 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-06-30 08:20 AM | Reply

Blaming all Americans is just a semantic method of excusing the failed leadership of our country, some of our states and many of our cities.
But the President cannot excape responsibility, it was his job to lead and he just did the opposite. He instead mislead Americans to believe it was a Democratic Hoax, he regularly went on Fox News where they all misled the American people. If Obama was President the same people trying to steer blame away from Trump would be pointing fingers directly at him.

#103 | Posted by danni at 2020-06-30 09:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Danni,

Don't be over simplistic.

Trump has certainly done things that could have been better.

But that can be said about almost everything.

Dwelling on the hoax hoax is so yesterday.

Find a new drum to beat.

My point was look at the beaches stuffed with young adults who know good and well the danger but could care less about each other or their families.

That is America.

#104 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 09:51 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Last time i waste a keystroke on bill johnson.

#105 | Posted by JOE at 2020-06-30 10:16 AM | Reply

Danni,

I seriously doubt one single person who heard the hoax comment actually believed this was made up and fabricated.

The hoax part is that somehow this crisis is being attributed to the president.

I'm sure facts will be studied and after the fact there will be books galore written on Trumps handling.

And some points will be legitimate.

However if democrats didn't reak so badly of anger and hatred for Trump and the GOP perhaps they wouldn't look so disingenuous.

#106 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 10:17 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Danni,

I think Trump was looking at the situation from multiple angles and juggling multiple priorities.

Whether you agree or not there are many things at stake here other than simply the death count.

That's the facts.

I'm sure history will not be kind.

I mean....we got books to sell.

#107 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 10:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Fox Newz did to "conservatives" what "conservatives" claimed rap music would do to blacks

It's totally turned them into mindless monsters celebrating ignorance

#108 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-06-30 10:46 AM | Reply

Screw you bill for forcing me take the extra step to actually log in so I can killfile you. Jeez. My smart phone was getting dumber by the second just from displaying your ridiculous posts. At first I thought "deplorable" was a great word choice. We need a stronger word.

#109 | Posted by deadseasquirrel at 2020-06-30 11:58 AM | Reply

What could Hillary have done that would have changed the economic crisis?
#91 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Let's see...

Taking the virus seriously
Not getting rid of our medical team in China who monitors these outbreaks
Shutting down travel with Europe earlier
Nationwide mask requirement
Not throwing up red tape for testing
Not relying solely on the CDC to produce a test so Jared Kushner's company can sell it
Social Distancing mandate nationwide
Not sending needed medical supplies to China early
Invoking Federal Law to get medical equipment and masks early
Financial aid for families that need it rather than millionaires and large public corporations who don't
Expanded testing
Contact Tracing Program

And above all: Not telling people its like the flu, to ignore social distancing, to avoid wearing masks, and to hold protests against local rules on those things

See Bill, this isn't hard for people with functioning brains.

#110 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-06-30 12:01 PM | Reply

Sy,

Great post.

Lots of words.

But you left off the magic wand.

Abracadabra...poof...

#111 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 03:20 PM | Reply

BillJohnson, do you acknowledge South Korea has done a better job than USA, or is that Fake News?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 03:27 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

There's too many variables between the countries to make an apples for apples comparison.

#113 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 03:49 PM | Reply

BillJohnson,
No there aren't.
The variables aren't even that different.
Two wealthy modern Capitalist Democratic countries who are global tech leaders, that each had their first known COVID-19 case on the same day.
It would be hard to find more comparable apples.
But you can compare USA and Canada, or USA and UK if you prefer.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 03:58 PM | Reply

Posted by BillJohnson

Jesus wept!

This moron is still at it, and the rest of you dopes are still responding???

An absurdist drama with no end.

#115 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-06-30 04:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

See Bill, this isn't hard for people with functioning brains.
#110 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Bill forfeited all cognitive abilities in order to be accepted by a group of people who hate everything about him.

#116 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-06-30 04:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

JFC.

All that American Exceptionalism goes right out the window during a pandemic.

Zero accountability while simultaneously claiming we're the greatest nation on the planet. That there proves we are not.

Thanks Trumpers. You've outted us as exactly that.

#117 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-06-30 04:57 PM | Reply

Abracadabra...poof...
#111 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Nice to see you are not presenting an argument in good faith.

Always nice to know who is worthwhile to converse with around here. Makes it easier when you folks out yourselves so I don't have to waste my time reading your drivel.

#118 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-06-30 04:59 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

It looks like South Korea is closing back down again for all their successes.

Realistically it's way too early in the game to know where things are going for anyone.

And we haven't even seen how far the economic sinkhole in America is going to end up.

Like I said, I think an apples for apples comparison is futile.

#119 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 05:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Like I said, I think an apples for apples comparison is futile."

The only problem you have with the comparison is it makes Trump look bad.

You're just looking for a way to keep your head in the sand, and you found it with your "countries just can't be compared" nonsense.

As you simultaneously think America is one of the best countries on earth.

For reasons you can't compare.

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 06:00 PM | Reply

"Realistically it's way too early in the game to know where things are going for anyone."

It's not too early in the game to see how things have gone so far.

You just can't bring yourself to look, out of fear of what you know you are going to see.

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 06:12 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

I'm not as concerned about Trump as you are.

States and localities are calling their own shots.

#122 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 06:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"States and localities are calling their own shots."

It's a Global emergency, it demands a National response.

We have none.

That is Trump's failure. 40 times bigger than 9/11, and we're just getting started!

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 06:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy,

Only one more post.

There was no one size fits all solution when it came to different localities.

#124 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 06:26 PM | Reply

It looks like South Korea is closing back down again for all their successes.

South Korea NEVER completely closed down. They immediately instituted the proper protocols (testing - isolating - contact tracing - quarantining - and repeated and continuous temperature checks) that allowed them to carry on under responsible mitigation rules and strict social distancing.

South Korea has confirmed 62 additional cases of the coronavirus over a 24-hour period, as the country continues to grapple with new clusters after easing social distancing rules.

The additional cases reported Sunday took the total to 12,715 with 282 deaths. The agency says 40 of the newly reported cases were domestically infected while the rest 22 came from overseas. It says 26 of the 40 domestic cases were detected in the densely populated Seoul metropolitan area.

www.usnews.com

Bill, you're better than this. Please don't stoop to Sniper levels of illogic and idiocy. 62 new cases in a country of 51 million people will not cause mass closing. You need to read and understand how South Korea found success in minimizing the virus' spread - things we could have done here without the need for stay-at-home orders.

#125 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-30 06:28 PM | Reply

An absurdist drama with no end.
#115 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

But... who would even want an absurdist drama to end?
And if it does end, it should have like 79 false endings first.
(Like when BillJohnson tells people he won't be conversing with them again.)

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 06:29 PM | Reply

There was no one size fits all solution when it came to different localities.
#124 | POSTED BYBILLJOHNSON

Incorrect.

"Wear a mask in businesses and in crowds" is a nearly perfect one size fits all solution.

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-06-30 06:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There was no one size fits all solution

Yes there is and there always has been one: Identify the infected through mass testing and retesting and keep the virus from spreading to uninfected people by isolating the infected from the non-infected until they've recovered and can no longer shed the virus to others.

That is the solution. How you go about actually achieving it is the problem.

#128 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-06-30 06:33 PM | Reply

Bill, you're better than this.

Stop lying to yourself. He isn't.

He's one of the most hateful posters on the DR.

He's not even trying to troll.

He's malicious and cruel.

At best, he's simply a horrible human being.

#129 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-06-30 06:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good God You're hopeless Bill.

#130 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-06-30 06:49 PM | Reply

Tony,

"How you go about actually achieving it is the problem."

Isn't it always?

We can agree on that.

#131 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-06-30 06:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You know the difference between the US and S. Korea and this new "surge" S. Korea is having?
We just had 45,000 new cases yesterday.
The surge S. Korea had was 17.
"Dr Jeong said it was now clear that a holiday weekend in early May marked the beginning of a new wave of infections focused in the greater Seoul area, which had previously seen only a few cases."

How'd they do such excellent control, and how are they going to bring this surge under control?

South Korea never locked down the country. They relied on voluntary social distancing measures, didn't make mask wearing political, and they put in an aggressive track, trace and test strategy to combat the virus.

In comparison to the U.S. We now have so many cases that any hope of putting in a track, trace, and test strategy may be well out of reach.

#132 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-01 07:57 AM | Reply

There's another issue we're ignoring.

The rest of the world (except Brazil) has either eliminated COVID19 in their nation, or have it well under control.

Meanwhile, in America:

Wausau-Area Rock Festival Billed As 'Herd Immunity Fest' To Move Forward Amid Pandemic.

The event was initially billed as "Herd Immunity Fest," a reference to its rural, cow-pasture setting, as well as to the spread of the deadly disease.


Trumpublicans are trying to spread it as fast as possible.

#133 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-07-01 03:21 PM | Reply

Link for #133: www.wpr.org

#134 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-07-01 03:21 PM | Reply

... the only important statistic is death per 100000 citizens. The U.S. is doing a great job in that respect.

The U.S has the ninth-worst deaths per 100,000 in the world. When the country with the biggest GDP in the world is the ninth worst at deaths a pandemic despite having one of the most well-funded health and disease prevention infrastructures on the planet, it is completely insane to use the words "great job."

Countries that have done better than us: Peru, Ecuador, Mexico, North Macedonia, Azerbaijan and the Maldives. Among many others.

Hooray us!

Source

#135 | Posted by rcade at 2020-07-01 06:40 PM | Reply

And really....do you think Hillary would have done much better?

Without a doubt.

#136 | Posted by rcade at 2020-07-01 06:42 PM | Reply

"And really....do you think Hillary would have done much better?"

Not just Hillary. Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio would have done much better too.

You'd have to search far and wide to find someone who could do as bad as Trump.

And that's what they love about Trump. Being an awful person and an awful President trolls the libs in two different ways.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-01 06:47 PM | Reply

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