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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, July 04, 2020

These Charts Show Why. The United States is different. In nearly every other high-income country, people have both become richer over the last three decades and been able to enjoy substantially longer lifespans. But not in the United States.

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Thanks, Capitalism!

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-04 03:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

They don't even say Trickle Down anymore.

#2 | Posted by LesWit at 2020-07-04 11:14 PM | Reply

What a steaming pile of ----.

Is the NYT the new Pravda?

#3 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 09:11 AM | Reply

#3 - Way to refute the evidence that's staring you right in the face.
Besides, what do you care? Aren't you making it official and staying in Germany?
(if you're actually even there)

#4 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-05 09:46 AM | Reply

Yeah. If only the country was more centrally controlled, people would live longer.

I think this article successfully captured every single boilerplate BernieBro cause.

"Besides, what do you care? Aren't you making it official and staying in Germany?"

Hopefully,

But Europe is not what you think. I know that Bernie as sold Europe as a Utopian paradise where the rich pay for everything, allowing everyone else to spend their day painting or drum circling or just doing nothing. That's not really the case. Germany is more centrally controlled, but it also demands more of it's citizens. That's something that the american left wouldn't understand.

#5 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 09:53 AM | Reply

Any article on longevity which doesn't address the opioid crisis isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

"If only the country was more centrally controlled, people would live longer."

That's not the thrust of the article; rather the effect of income equality getting more and more extreme.

#6 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 10:00 AM | Reply

"That's not the thrust of the article; rather the effect of income equality getting more and more extreme."

Yeah?

Who would have thought that the life expectancy of a rich person would go into decline because someone else was richer?

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 10:09 AM | Reply

In fact it is the centrally controlled government implementing failed economic principles of republican rule is what has caused so much of our movement downward. Including the decline in longevity. That for all kinds of reasons, but the biggest is not having access to healthcare and a system that rewards pharmaceutical industry too, too much. That entire industry needs some serious regulating, IMHO.

You can see that in the graphs. This creates questions: What other countries have an opioid crisis? Why or why not? What is different for those countries versus the U.S.?

#8 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-05 10:10 AM | Reply

"Who would have thought that the life expectancy of a rich person would go into decline because someone else was richer?"

Again, you (and they) missed the point. Rich folks have longer lifespans than poor folks, for a myriad of reasons, from better education at the outset to neighborhood food choices. And rich folks haven't seen their expectancy decline per se, it's just the death of 30-and-40-somethings to opioid addiction has an outsized effect on longevity statistics. A bad flu strain might up the death rate slightly, but usually it claims folks who might've passed in the next year or two anyway. Meanwhile, one 30 yr old passing has the same effect as fifty 79yr-olds dying a year early.

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 10:22 AM | Reply

Who would have thought that the life expectancy of a rich person would go into decline because someone else was richer?

That's quite a strawman, given no one has even hinted at anything that stupid, except you.

Life expectancy Analysis:

The gap in life expectancy between the richest 1% and poorest 1% of individuals was 14.6 years

In the United States between 2001 and 2014, higher income was associated with greater longevity, and differences in life expectancy across income groups increased. However, the association between life expectancy and income varied substantially across areas; differences in longevity across income groups decreased in some areas and increased in others. The differences in life expectancy were correlated with health behaviors and local area characteristics.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You have the longevity you can afford.
Can you afford good health care? PLUS!
Can you afford to live in a good area? PLUS!
Can you avoid being shot? PLUS!
Can you afford to eat healthy food? PLUS!
(you get the drift?)

#10 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-05 10:25 AM | Reply

Dammit - I was researching and Danforth nailed it!

I'm out of this for now. Gotta few chores to do :)

By the way, there are some graphs in the link in #10, one in particular, that is stark. Figure 2.

#11 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-05 10:28 AM | Reply

You know where the US is winning? Obesity rates. Polynesian countries tend to be the most obese, but other than them, the only country more obese than the US is Kuwait.

Do you think maybe that has something to do with it?

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 10:38 AM | Reply

"Do you think maybe (obesity rates have) something to do with it?"

Absolutely. Do you think food deserts have something to do with it? How about the fact you can get a cheeseburger on the dollar menu, but a salad will run you six bucks? What about the fact the rarest thing to find at a food pantry is fresh produce...something to do with it?

#13 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 10:43 AM | Reply

"Absolutely. Do you think food deserts have something to do with it?"

Nope.

Not in the US.

The last time I bought a bad of lettuce, it was less than $2.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 10:50 AM | Reply

but it also demands more of it's citizens. That's something that the american left wouldn't understand.
#5 |

Yeah. The American Right loves to band together and take directives from their government for the common good.

#15 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2020-07-05 10:50 AM | Reply

bag of lettuce. I'm sure had I bought a head, it would have been even cheaper.

#16 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 10:50 AM | Reply

Actually, I looked it up. Wal Mart sells a head of iceberg lettuce for $1.28.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 10:53 AM | Reply

"Yeah. The American Right loves to band together and take directives from their government for the common good."

The left just screams about how much free ---- they deserve.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 10:53 AM | Reply

"Actually, I looked it up. Wal Mart sells a head of iceberg lettuce for $1.28."

Good for you.

"Nope. Not in the US."

You don't believe food deserts exist?!?

Time to use those mad GoogleSkilz of yours again!

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 10:57 AM | Reply

"Wal Mart sells a head of iceberg lettuce for $1.28."

Not at McDonalds, which was my point: cheeseburger for a buck, salad for six bucks.

#20 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 10:58 AM | Reply

"You don't believe food deserts exist?!?"

Yeah.

My parents lived in the country in Idaho. The nearest real grocery store was about a half hour's drive.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 11:19 AM | Reply

oh dear.

#22 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-05 11:27 AM | Reply

"The nearest real grocery store was about a half hour's drive."

How long on the public bus?

#23 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 12:32 PM | Reply

"How long on the public bus?"

I'm serious about that question: how much longer was it on the public bus?

Also: how does being able to load, say, a dozen full grocery bags in the car compare to only being able to buy what you can carry?

Finally, once those two factors are combined, how much extra time and effort does it take for that person to get the amount of food your family got in one trip?

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 01:49 PM | Reply

Oh sweetums,

There are no public busses in Idaho.

But you are adorable.

#25 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-05 04:58 PM | Reply

"Let them eat lettuce!" - Marie Bummerette

Public buses in Idaho

www.google.com

Has this clown ever been correct about anything, ever?

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-05 05:10 PM | Reply

People like Mad perpetuate the problem by limiting their understanding to their own anecdotal experiences. And when they do admit there is a problem, they blame the afflicted communities (which they know nothing about) instead of recognizing the root of the problem. So, the problem persists.

#27 | Posted by horstngraben at 2020-07-05 05:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#27 - Well said.

#28 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-05 06:11 PM | Reply

The Invisible Caste System Behind American Racism

Our founding ideals promise liberty and equality for all. Our reality is an enduring racial hierarchy that has persisted for centuries, writes Isabel Wilkerson for The Times Magazine.

www.nytimes.com

#29 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-07-05 06:56 PM | Reply

"Oh sweetums, There are no public busses in Idaho."

Thanks for proving my point.

Now how about the reality at the center: Even if there were a public bus at your disposal, the time would probably be 50% more than with a car. Multiply that by six trips versus your one (to get the same 12 grocery bags), and that means for the same amount of food, she has to exert nine times the time and effort.

Do you think that has an effect on food choices, or not?

#30 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-05 08:11 PM | Reply

#30

You aren't even getting into the deeper problems. Back when we were broke as a joke we lived in a place where the oven didn't work and only 2 of the 4 burners worked on the range. Any baking had to be done in the toaster oven or microwave. We also only had 2 pots 1 large 1 small and only one sauce spoon. We did have 2 frying pans one large one small and a spatula. That was pretty much it for cooking tools. You are pretty limited to food choices with that kind of set up.

So yeah it's great to say you should cook meals, but without the tools and appliances to do so, that is not realistic.

Final point on trying to eat healthy when poor. Say you want to make a nice meal, well you probably don't have a stocked spice rack so you go buy all the ingredients you need including spices that will set you back but that's ok because they will last multiple meals. Then you cook a nice meal but don't have practice or good tools so it comes out inedible. Well you just dropped two days of your food budget on one meal, lots of time getting to the store, and you have to eat ruined food or else not eat. How many attempts will you make before just saying screw it and live on Michelina's

#31 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-07-05 08:44 PM | Reply

#37 maybe food stamps should include s one time payment for pots and pans. Though to be fair you can usually find something half decent at the thrift stores for cheap.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-05 10:12 PM | Reply

"Has this clown ever been correct about anything, ever?"

Try using public transportation to get from Castleford to Twin Falls.

You'll be waiting a while.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-06 06:07 AM | Reply

"People like Mad perpetuate the problem by limiting their understanding to their own anecdotal experiences."

Anecdotally, I live in a food desert, which is defined as an area where food is not available within .5 miles. The closest grocery store to me is 10.3km.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-06 06:10 AM | Reply

- You'll be waiting a while.

Wow... that's almost exactly the same as, "There are no public busses (buses) in Idaho."

You have a remarkable way with words.

#35 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-06 07:28 AM | Reply

Anecdotally, I live in a food desert, which is defined as an area where food is not available within .5 miles. The closest grocery store to me is 10.3km.

[citation required]

"In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture reported that 23.5 million people in the U.S. live in "food deserts", meaning that they live more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas.[6]"

You're at 6.4 miles. You don't live on base I take it? Not near the mess hall? A decision on your part? I'm just trying to figure out how far you're going to go to make yourself just like people stuck in poverty and in food deserts to prove some point which, honestly, doesn't look like it's going to happen.

#36 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-06 07:43 AM | Reply

"You'll be waiting a while."

So...are you going to address how it takes nine times the time and effort for someone relying on public transportation to get what you can get in one trip?

#37 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 08:55 AM | Reply

"I'm just trying to figure out how far you're going to go to make yourself just like people stuck in poverty and in food deserts to prove some point which, honestly, doesn't look like it's going to happen."

Based on the definition you've provided, I've lived in a food desert for most of my life. My house in Louisiana is 3.2 miles from the closest grocery store. My house in North Dakota was 2.9 miles. Both can be reached in minutes by vehicle, within an hour on foot.

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-06 09:16 AM | Reply

"So...are you going to address how it takes nine times the time and effort for someone relying on public transportation to get what you can get in one trip?"

Because you argument is ridiculous. Nine times the time and effort? Really?

Walking pace is three miles per hour. On a bike in an urban area, probably eight-nine miles per hour.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-06 09:19 AM | Reply

"Based on the definition you've provided, I've lived in a food desert for most of my life. "

And based on the information you've provided, you had a car at your family's disposal.

"Walking pace is three miles per hour."

So going back and forth for one trip takes more time than it took you. And capacity in your car was greater than you could carry in one trip.

"Nine times the time and effort? Really?"

Feel free to show your own math. Clearly the time and effort are MORE, right? You'll at least admit that's the way the dial turns, correct?

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 11:22 AM | Reply

"And based on the information you've provided, you had a car at your family's disposal.""

And?

Like I said, you can walk three miles in an hour. Bikes are faster.

"Feel free to show your own math."

I thought I did. three miles an hour walking. 8-9 miler per hour on bike...flat ground.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-06 03:14 PM | Reply

#41

So 3 miles on a bike 20 minutes, by car 5 so round trip 40 vs 10 so right off the bat you are 4 times longer. Now the other part of the equation is how often you go to the store? If you go twice a week like I do then the question is how much you can carry on a backpack or saddle bags or both. I don't see much more than 2 days worth for a family so that's 3.5 trips a week. Not sure how often you go in a car but for me it's usually twice a week so I have 20 minutes round trip a week the biker has 140 so 7 times as long and we haven't dealt with check out times. I would say danforth is being generous with 9 times.

#42 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2020-07-06 05:05 PM | Reply

My house in Louisiana is 3.2 miles from the closest grocery store. My house in North Dakota was 2.9 miles. Both can be reached in minutes by vehicle, within an hour on foot.

#38 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Why are you going totally off topic to die on the hill of grocery store access?

This entire talking point is meaningless.

If obesity was the core issue, we wouldn't see such huge gaps in lifespan between the rich and poor.

#43 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-07-06 05:48 PM | Reply

"My house in Louisiana is 3.2 miles from the closest grocery store. My house in North Dakota was 2.9 miles."

And in Germany?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:56 PM | Reply

"The closest grocery store to me is 10.3km."

That's only a food island by urban standards.

And are you sure you're not overlooking some nearby meat, cheese, and bread stores?

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:59 PM | Reply

And can't you take the tram or bus, instead of walking or biking or driving?

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 06:00 PM | Reply

"If obesity was the core issue, we wouldn't see such huge gaps in lifespan between the rich and poor."

Interesting you bring up obesity, since the less-rich tend to be more obese than the more rich. Think about that foe a second. AT what point in world history has obesity been a problem for the poor.

And this whole argument presupposes that the availability of Kale would somehow drive and individual to eat healthy rather than simply eat more fast food. And there's nothing wrong with eating fast food, provided that you exercise.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-07 02:24 AM | Reply

"Interesting you bring up obesity, since the less-rich tend to be more obese than the more rich."

Fry bread will do that to you.
That's kind of the whole point.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-07 02:38 AM | Reply

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