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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, July 05, 2020

The coronavirus is finding new victims worldwide, in bars and restaurants, offices, markets and casinos, giving rise to frightening clusters of infection that increasingly confirm what many scientists have been saying for months: The virus lingers in the air indoors, infecting those nearby.

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I would like to know how many medical research facilities support their claim and how many opposed their claim.

#1 | Posted by Tor at 2020-07-05 02:30 PM | Reply

I hope that was sarcasm

#2 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-07-05 02:33 PM | Reply

... what many scientists have been saying for months: The virus lingers in the air indoors, infecting those nearby ...

Which is why when I got a delivery recently that required the delivery guys to come inside the house, I turned on the house exhaust fan and opened windows to keep the air moving inside the house.

Also, everyone was wearing a mask.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-07-05 03:04 PM | Reply

It makes sense; seems reasonable that most people who get this virus were not directly coughed or sneezed on.

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-05 03:46 PM | Reply

#3 | Posted by LampLighter

I walked into a Mapco (convenience store chain) last night. Both clerks are Coptic Christians from Egypt.

When I saw the younger clerk didn't have a mask on while the older clerk did, but just one of those blue surgical masks, I asked him why he wasn't wearing a mask, working as he does in a building with a closed HVAC system and hundreds of people in and out all night. He replied he has asthma, so it's hard to breathe in them. He asked where he could get one like mine - a Moldex 2300 with exhalation valve, which makes it easier to wear a mask long term.

I drove home and brought him back one from a box I'd just purchased at eBay. He offered to pay, but I was happy to give him one, explaining that it was a small gesture to share a little something on the Fourth of July with these two newly minted U.S. citizens.

The older man, Ehab, nearly begged me to tell him where he could buy some (eBay). We got to talking a little. He was a lawyer in Egypt who has twin sons in college there who are nearly finished with school. His wife has been staying in Egypt to help them through. He showed me pictures from their last visit. All three are coming for a month long visit next month, which is why he was urgently asking about where to get masks. I brought him back 4 masks, which made him beam with relief for himself and his soon-to-arrive family. It was a joyeful chance encounter that made yesterday special.

#5 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-07-05 05:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#5 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-07-05 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good on you, sir. We need to look out for one another more often.

#6 | Posted by cbob at 2020-07-05 06:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The hoax has mutated and is now airborne!

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-05 06:27 PM | Reply

More like Captain Tripps all the time. Scary, Stephen King couldn't even cook this one up.

Asymptomatic carriers and airborne dispersal,
this ---- is the stuff of nightmares.

#8 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-07-05 10:47 PM | Reply

I didn't even think this was a question anymore.

Evidence showing viral presence in aerosols and on surfaces further than 6 ft from a source was behind the mask guidelines being instituted widely.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 12:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The good news is that the death rate continues to decline. 212 deaths on 05 July. The lowest it's been since 25 March.

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-06 07:42 AM | Reply

"In general, experts see three broad reasons for the downward trend in the rate of coronavirus deaths: testing, treatment and a shift in whom the virus is infecting. The relative contribution of these factors is not yet clear.

And because death reports can lag diagnoses by weeks, the current rise in coronavirus cases could still portend increases in mortality in the days to come."

www.nytimes.com

As opposed, of course, to Dear Leader Trump's case for not testing which would make the death rates go away!

Or MB's proposals about how ignorance is bliss.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-06 07:49 AM | Reply

Cause and effect logic has never been more abused than it is today.

#12 | Posted by humtake at 2020-07-06 07:51 AM | Reply

"New patient population

A shifting patient population is probably also altering the disease's dynamics. Coronavirus-related hospitalizations increase with age, and elderly individuals remain some of those hardest hit by the coronavirus; patients over 65 account for 8 out of 10 deaths from COVID-19, according to the CDC.

But younger people now make up a growing proportion of cases, and they are less likely to die from the disease. In Arizona, people ages 20-44 now account for nearly half of all cases. In Florida, which just recorded more than 10,000 new cases in a single day, the median age of residents testing positive has dropped to 35 from 65.

And in Texas, more than half of those testing positive are under 50."

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-06 08:21 AM | Reply

"More and better treatments

Health care workers have also become more knowledgeable about promising treatments and palliative care options to combat the coronavirus and its effects. For instance, prone positioning, in which patients are flipped onto their stomachs, can ease respiratory distress by opening up the lungs.

Critically ill individuals are also now known to be vulnerable to excessive blood clotting and may benefit from blood thinners. And the steroid dexamethasone appears to reduce deaths among patients with severe COVID-19, although the data demonstrating this emerged only recently. (Another drug, an antiviral called remdesivir, seems to speed recovery but does not appear to have notable effects on mortality.)

"Before, it felt like we were stumbling in the dark," Bell said. "It feels a little bit better now."

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-06 08:22 AM | Reply

The corona virus is a common respiratory virus.
There is no quick test that can distinguish the Covid 19 version from the common virus.

So what authorities are doing is going by symptoms which could be anything from the common cold to pneumonia, even tuberculosis.

Which means there is no limit to how much authorities can pump up the statistics as Covid 19 to make one strain look scary.

Health care workers have also become more knowledgeable about promising treatments and palliative care options to combat the coronavirus and its effect

Palliative is the correct word. There is no cure for a viral infection except the body itself. Only the body can heal itself. And only the body can prevent viral infections.
The responsibility is on the owner to see that the body is properly nourished so it is designed to do to maintain a homeostatic state of health.

#15 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 08:40 AM | Reply

lmao.... Chicken Little Ray the virologist.

Making statements sans facts or evidence.

So, just talking to yourself again.

Let's ask the Mayo Clinic how this corona virus is different...

newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-06 08:58 AM | Reply

So, just talking to yourself again.

I expect that on this site. You people surrendered your minds to authority. Now you are at their mercy.

Your link to the Mayo Clinic is a good example. The medical cartel is as delusional and corrupt as any other politicized special interest cartel. They can't make money on healthy people.
Doctors are no better than witch doctors. When the body heals itself, they take credit for it. When the body is too exhausted to heal itself, they blame the gods.

Calling me Chicken Little is a laugh. You won't see me worrying about getting the flu. I haven't had so much as a cold in years.

The irrefutable biological fact remains: if you don't take care of the needs of your body, you are laying the ground for disease later in life.

Your health is YOUR responsibility. You can't transfer it to anybody else. It's impossible.

#17 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 09:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The irrefutable biological fact remains: if you don't take care of the needs of your body, you are laying the ground for disease later in life."

That's absolutely true.

Now...are you going to deal with the imperfect people, or are you going to pretend they don't exist?

Put a different way....isn't a cancer diagnosis a little late for the Sunshine and Orange Juice method?

#18 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 10:11 AM | Reply

"The corona virus is a common respiratory virus."

Why did you purposely leave out the "novel" part of the novel coronavirus?

Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that can cause illness ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases. A "novel" coronavirus (nCoV) is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans.

Are you actually pretending it's been identified in humans in the past?!?

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 10:28 AM | Reply

Your health is YOUR responsibility. You can't transfer it to anybody else. It's impossible.

#17 | POSTED BY RAY

How does one stay healthy in the world with no resources? Have you tried finding food on asphalt?

By taking away the ability of the people to feed and care for themselves we have set ourselves up for failure. If a child is not given proper nutrition and guidance what do you expect to happen?

Poverty is everyone's problem. We are all responsible. The welfare of our nation is everyone's responsibility.

Stop pretending we are all independent when in fact we are all quite interdependent.

#20 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-06 10:49 AM | Reply

So what authorities are doing is going by symptoms which could be anything from the common cold to pneumonia, even tuberculosis.
Which means there is no limit to how much authorities can pump up the statistics as Covid 19 to make one strain look scary.

LOL you never stop simply making s--- up, do you?

And there is no "The coronavirus". There are four coronaviruses circulating in humans that collectively account for about 25% of "common colds" per year.

COVID symptoms aren't anything like the URI symptoms of the common cold, so keep swinging Ray.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 10:58 AM | Reply

Put a different way....isn't a cancer diagnosis a little late for the Sunshine and Orange Juice method?

Cancer is measure of how well the sufferer has managed his health. If the body is not too exhausted, all one has to do is remove the root cause and the body will heal itself. Poor diet and stress are primary causes.

You can't cure cancer by subjecting yourself to being poisoned when poison is what caused the cancer.

#22 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 12:08 PM | Reply

COVID symptoms aren't anything like the URI symptoms of the common cold, so keep swinging Ray.

They are all respiratory symptoms. The only way to distinguish one from the other is by laboratory testing. Even then, the presence of corona viruses does not prove that the virus is the cause.

I argue that viruses are an effect of the body's attempt to rid itself of toxins. It's the complete opposite of the way you think.

#23 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 12:14 PM | Reply

"Cancer is measure of how well the sufferer has managed his health."

So basically you are saying that if you get cancer it's your own fault for not living your life right?

They have sinned and now God"or fate or karma or the universe"has given them exactly what they deserve?

Way to help people who are victims of random genetic mutations stay positive and have hope.

You are one sick puppy yourself ray. I am surprised you do not have cancer yourself as sinful as your thoughts are!

There is no doubt that living a healthy life decreases your odds of getting cancer. But it does not eliminate it. Random mutations still occur even in the most healthy individuals.

"Random mutations are the single biggest factor in causing cancer, researchers reaffirmed Thursday. About two-thirds of the genetic mutations that lead to cancer happen simply because of random errors made as cells divide and not because of diet, chemicals or inherited genes, the team at Johns Hopkins University said."
Mar 23, 2017

#24 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-06 12:23 PM | Reply

They are all respiratory symptoms. The only way to distinguish one from the other is by laboratory testing. Even then, the presence of corona viruses does not prove that the virus is the cause.

Oh God. I forgot you think Germ Theory is nonsense.

And yes, it is possible to discern COVID from a URI.

Stick to things you know something about...like...?

I argue that viruses are an effect of the body's attempt to rid itself of toxins. It's the complete opposite of the way you think.

#23 | POSTED BY RAY

LOL and there is ZERO evidence of that nonsense being true.

What the hell does that even mean?

#25 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 12:24 PM | Reply

Are you actually pretending it's been identified in humans in the past?!?

I'm not pretending.

And there is no "The coronavirus". There are four coronaviruses circulating in humans that collectively account for about 25% of "common colds" per year.

I was generalizing. You have to be gullible if you believe symptoms alone are sufficient to slap a label on a disease.

#26 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 12:24 PM | Reply

Stop pretending we are all independent when in fact we are all quite interdependent.
#20 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Social wise, that much is true. Biology wise, the health of your body is dependent on your actions.

#27 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 12:27 PM | Reply

Oh God. I forgot you think Germ Theory is nonsense.

Not think, I know!

LOL and there is ZERO evidence of that nonsense being true.

There is plenty of evidence. You've been trained to dismiss it.

#28 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 12:30 PM | Reply

So basically you are saying that if you get cancer it's your own fault for not living your life right?

Right in the sense of right for your body. It's a biological fact.

#29 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 12:33 PM | Reply

I was generalizing. You have to be gullible if you believe symptoms alone are sufficient to slap a label on a disease.

#26 | POSTED BY RAY

You have to be a Dunning-Kruger superstar to think you can't. But that would require actual knowledge so...

There is plenty of evidence. You've been trained to dismiss it.

#28 | POSTED BY RAY

You've shown yourself quite inept at understand what the word "evidence" means.

And if you have to go down the "you're too brainwashed to see it" route you're already wrong.

But then again, conspiracy theories and crackpot medical "ideas" are enticing to segments of the population because that segment, in a desperate attempt to feel like a somebody, will convince themselves they're the holders of super secret, really uber duber awesome special knowledge!

#30 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 12:42 PM | Reply

That colloidal silver werks fer me.

Ray.

#31 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-07-06 12:43 PM | Reply

Right in the sense of right for your body. It's a biological fact.

#29 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2020-07-06 12:33 PM | REPLY | FLAG: apparently hasn't heard of radon

LOL

Some of the more recent studies have shown that behaviors can increase risk factors but that, by and large, cancer is due to uncontrollable environmental factors interacting with one's genetics.

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 12:44 PM | Reply

But then again, conspiracy theories and crackpot medical "ideas" are enticing to segments of the population because that segment, in a desperate attempt to feel like a somebody, will convince themselves they're the holders of super secret, really uber duber awesome special knowledge!

1. The more Americans are spending on medical care, the sicker they are becoming.
2. Medical practitioners are trained to treat symptoms without getting to the source of what is causing the symptoms.
3.Big Pharma medicines are designed to keep patients hooked for life. That's how they make their money.

That's a sampling of the evidence. I'm just a messenger with a high respect for truth, even when it's unpopular.

BTW, I practice what I preach. At 78, I'm free of disease, both chronic and infectious. If I put my faith in doctors, I wouldn't be able to say that.

#33 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 01:06 PM | Reply

You have to be a Dunning-Kruger superstar to think you can't. But that would require actual knowledge

There is a saying to the effect that no matter how wrong, you can't change a man's mind when his livelihood depends on his beliefs.

The history of medicine is replete with truth tellers who if couldn't be ignored, were punished and ostracized.

#34 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 01:19 PM | Reply

1. The more Americans are spending on medical care, the sicker they are becoming.

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Also, I'd suggest you have the cart before the horse.

2. Medical practitioners are trained to treat symptoms without getting to the source of what is causing the symptoms.

Nonsense. You're so proud about having never been to a doctor. No wonder you're ignorant of their focus on proper eating and exercise.

3.Big Pharma medicines are designed to keep patients hooked for life. That's how they make their money.

Yes, finally something I can agree with.

That's a sampling of the evidence. I'm just a messenger with a high respect for truth, even when it's unpopular.

None of that is evidence of anything.

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 02:27 PM | Reply

"I'm not pretending."

Please link to proof of your claim the novel coronavirus isn't novel in humans.

And no, proof is NOT some blogger quoting a guy who retired 20 years ago.

#36 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 02:58 PM | Reply

"At 78, I'm free of disease, both chronic and infectious."

That doesn't mean much in a vacuum. When did you begin this regimen? Did you have childhood ailments? Did either or both of your parents smoke while you were growing up? At what age did your parents and grandparents die, and from what ailments?

If they all got hit by a bus at 102, you could simply be the beneficiary of a winning gene pool. If they all died before 60 of heart disease and cancer, then you can claim you altered the course.

#37 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 03:05 PM | Reply

No wonder you're ignorant of their focus on proper eating and exercise.

They do that for appearances. They never look for a causal connection between diet, stress and disease. Mainstream focus on high carbohydrates and low fat lead to disease.

Yes, finally something I can agree with.

Which supports the causality of points 1 & 2. Perhaps I should have reversed the order.

None of that is evidence of anything.

Which goes back to what I said in #34.

#38 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 03:16 PM | Reply

They do that for appearances.

LOL talk about ignoring evidence...

Which goes back to what I said in #34.

No, it's literally not evidence. As in doesn't meet the definition of the word.

#39 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 03:32 PM | Reply

Please link to proof of your claim the novel coronavirus isn't novel in humans.
And no, proof is NOT some blogger quoting a guy who retired 20 years ago.

It's a sad truth, that retirees are safe from punishment for telling the truth.

BTW, viruses are not alive. Even JPW will agree with that much.

What that means is that viruses cannot act; they cannot have purpose.
You would have to believe in zombies to believe that viruses can invade healthy cells and make them go against their nature and produce more viruses.
It's the other way around. Healthy cells produce viruses intentionally to clean up toxins.

To keep the germ theory alive, the medical cartel had to create a mythology around viruses.

#40 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 03:35 PM | Reply

What that means is that viruses cannot act; they cannot have purpose.

No, but they have characteristics that are selected through evolution and selection.

You would have to believe in zombies to believe that viruses can invade healthy cells and make them go against their nature and produce more viruses.
It's the other way around. Healthy cells produce viruses intentionally to clean up toxins.

LOL this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

You can take happy, healthy cells in a dish and add a virus to them and guess what...they virus replicates!

You're willingly ignoring mountains of information studying the means why which viruses subvert cellular processes and the countermeasures cells possess to subvert them.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 03:44 PM | Reply

That doesn't mean much in a vacuum. When did you begin this regimen?

I started in my early twenties about age 22. For about ten years, I read every book I could find on food and nutrition. To this day, I'm still learning.
At the time, I was suffering from asthma, brain fog and I couldn't concentrate well. I would get about two colds a year.

Did either or both of your parents smoke while you were growing up? At what age did your parents and grandparents die, and from what ailments?

My parents didn't smoke nor drink. Mother died at 88; father at 94. Unfortunately they trusted doctors. I had to watch their deterioration.

If they all died before 60 of heart disease and cancer, then you can claim you altered the course.

You ignore the quality of life issue. My parents started their deterioration long before 78.

#42 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 03:56 PM | Reply

"What that means is that viruses cannot act; they cannot have purpose."

It doesn't work that way.

If you put Mentos in Diet Coke you'll get plenty of action.

But nobody would say Mentos and Diet Coke combine to create life.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:05 PM | Reply

You would have to believe in zombies to believe that viruses can invade healthy cells and make them go against their nature and produce more viruses.

Not zombies.
Molecular biology.

Take a look at cordyceps; it does pretty much what you describe to insects. Takes over their cells and makes them go against their nature.

The dead infected insect zombie corpses are used as medicine in China.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:11 PM | Reply

"Mainstream focus on high carbohydrates and low fat lead to disease."

Thanks, Capitalism!

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:16 PM | Reply

LOL this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I know! I know!

You can take happy, healthy cells in a dish and add a virus to them and guess what...they virus replicates

Of course. Isolating cells from the body puts them under stress. As a skunk produces a powerful odor when under stress, cells produce viruses. I'm sure if you don't add viruses, the cells will produce viruses anyway. The point is that petri dish experiments cannot reproduce what takes place in the body.

You're willingly ignoring mountains of information studying the means why which viruses subvert cellular processes and the countermeasures cells possess to subvert them.

Static images cannot tell you which is cause and which is effect. No scientist who wants to keep his job will renounce the germ theory. Many have tried and many have been destroyed

#46 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 04:17 PM | Reply

"cells produce viruses."

How do cells produce viruses? Where do they get the blueprints?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:23 PM | Reply

I'm sure if you don't add viruses, the cells will produce viruses anyway.

And you would be wrong.

How does a cell "create" a virus?

No scientist who wants to keep his job will renounce the germ theory. Many have tried and many have been destroyed

#46 | POSTED BY RAY

Because it's ludicrous.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 04:23 PM | Reply

No scientist who wants to keep his job will renounce the germ theory. Many have tried and many have been destroyed
#46 | POSTED BY RAY

Links please.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:24 PM | Reply

If you put Mentos in Diet Coke you'll get plenty of action

Very good. But the point is the action is chemical. Similarly, the action of viruses is chemical.

Take a look at cordyceps; it does pretty much what you describe to insects. Takes over their cells and makes them go against their nature.

I had to look up cordyceps. They are described as fungi, meaning they are alive.

Thanks, Capitalism!

More accurately, there is no social system that can't or won't be abused.

#50 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 04:29 PM | Reply

And you would be wrong.

Can you provide a credible source to prove me wrong? I know I'm solid ground when I say you cannot expect cells to behave the same way in a petri dish as they behave in the body.

How does a cell "create" a virus?

The burden of proof is on you.

According to you, it takes an invading virus to enter the nucleus and force the cell to go against its nature and make foreign viruses.
Being that viruses are not alive, that makes no sense. The best viruses can do is produce a chemical reaction.

#51 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 04:39 PM | Reply

How do cells produce viruses? Where do they get the blueprints?
#47 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

According to the mainstream, they get the blueprints from another virus.

That would be an unusual exception to the way genes are normally expressed.

I hold the view that all diseases are a consequence of the body's attempt to heal itself. The body cannot act against itself. When you follow that line of logic, everything makes sense.

#52 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 04:48 PM | Reply

"But the point is the action is chemical. Similarly, the action of viruses is chemical."

The action of life is chemical too.
ATP releases energy and becomes ADP, that kind of thing.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:49 PM | Reply

Can you provide a credible source to prove me wrong? I know I'm solid ground when I say you cannot expect cells to behave the same way in a petri dish as they behave in the body.

I see the back door you built into the equation.

You'll find no source I post credible.

And I know from experience. I pass cells of various sorts regularly and they never spontaneously show signs of infection.

The burden of proof is on you.

Except it's your assertion.

Figured you wouldn't have any real evidence to back this or explain it.

According to you, it takes an invading virus to enter the nucleus and force the cell to go against its nature and make foreign viruses.
Being that viruses are not alive, that makes no sense. The best viruses can do is produce a chemical reaction.

#51 | POSTED BY RAY

You clearly have zero actual knowledge of virology, biochemistry, cell biology...well biology in general.

I mean I can start picking the above apart in excruciating detail but we'll be here for days and hundreds of posts.

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 04:50 PM | Reply

How do cells produce viruses? Where do they get the blueprints?
#47 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

According to the mainstream, they get the blueprints from another virus.
#52 | POSTED BY RAY

Let's roll that back:
Where do the cells come from?
You were once one cell from your mother and one cell from your father, correct? And they can each say the same about themselves, correct?

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:51 PM | Reply

Links please.

Here's a sample.

"Prof. Duesberg's findings have been a thorn in the side of the medical establishment and drug companies since 1987. Instead of engaging in scientific debate, however, the only response has been to cut-off funding to further test Professor's Duesberg's hypothesis."

www.duesberg.com

#56 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 04:52 PM | Reply

#55 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You're going off on a tangent.

#57 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 04:54 PM | Reply

"I hold the view that all diseases are a consequence of the body's attempt to heal itself."

That's certainly true for the people dying from COVID-19.

But I don't see how that can explain Alzheimer disease.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:54 PM | Reply

According to the mainstream, they get the blueprints from another virus.

The virus is the "instructions".

That would be an unusual exception to the way genes are normally expressed.

Viral replication isn't analogous to gene expression. It's analogous to cell division/replication and has many of the same features.

The body cannot act against itself. When you follow that line of logic, everything makes sense.

I wouldn't call that "logic"...

And it makes zero sense when you actually know something about biology.

The body acts against itself all the time. Normal biological processes result in collateral damage or cell death on a constant basis but mechanisms have evolved that limit damage or the response to it.

#59 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 04:55 PM | Reply

You're going off on a tangent.
#57 | POSTED BY RAY

No I'm not.
I'm going down your rabbit hole.

Where do cells come from, the ones that are making viruses?

How does a cell make anything, be it a virus or a structural protein or a kinase?

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:55 PM | Reply

"Links please.
Here's a sample"

No.
Gonna need a link from a third party, not a quack linking to himself.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 04:56 PM | Reply

#56 | POSTED BY RAY

Duesberg LOL The anti HIV nut?

#62 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 05:00 PM | Reply

The action of life is chemical too.
ATP releases energy and becomes ADP, that kind of thing.

All that proves is that living organisms depend on chemical reactions. But we already know that.

#63 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 05:00 PM | Reply

"The body cannot act against itself."

What's suicide?

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:01 PM | Reply

"Being that viruses are not alive, that makes no sense."

Yes it does.

The virus causes a specific series of chemical reactions. Some help it enter the cell, some help it deliver its genomic payload to the ribosome, some help it evade host defenses, and some aid the cell in assembling the new copies of the virus, and some help those new viruses escape from the cell.

As in,

All that proves is that living organisms depend on chemical reactions. But we already know that.
#63 | POSTED BYRAY

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:04 PM | Reply

"The body acts against itself all the time."

Pretty much every autoimmune disease...

Or even something as simple as my broken arm. I would have a non-functional arm had I opted to let nature take its course, since the natural response would have bound up all the tendons in scar tissue.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:07 PM | Reply

You clearly have zero actual knowledge of virology, biochemistry, cell biology...well biology in general.
I mean I can start picking the above apart in excruciating detail but we'll be here for days and hundreds of posts.

Yes you can. But for as long as you confuse effect for cause, you'll always be wrong on the direction of causality.

The body acts against itself all the time. Normal biological processes result in collateral damage or cell death on a constant basis but mechanisms have evolved that limit damage or the response to it.

We can agree that the body is in a constant state of repair. That does not mean the body is acting against itself.

#67 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 05:15 PM | Reply

Where do cells come from, the ones that are making viruses?

And why are the viruses created always so similar to each other and not the cells they're coming from?

Viruses often have proteins that functionally resemble cellular proteins but look nothing like them.

#68 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 05:17 PM | Reply

Duesberg LOL The anti HIV nut?
Gonna need a link from a third party, not a quack linking to himself.

I expected that.

#69 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 05:17 PM | Reply

Cancer is measure of how well the sufferer has managed his health.
#22 | POSTED BY RAY

You're an incredibly stupid piece of ----. Children with leukemia and brain cancer didn't do that to themselves.

#70 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-06 05:18 PM | Reply

That does not mean the body is acting against itself.
#67 | POSTED BY RAY

Macular degeneration.
If not the body acting against itself, then what is it?

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:21 PM | Reply

Duesberg LOL The anti HIV nut?
Gonna need a link from a third party, not a quack linking to himself.

I expected that.
#69 | POSTED BY RAY

^
Then why didn't you act on your expectations?

Sounds like your body acted against itself...

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:22 PM | Reply

Yes you can. But for as long as you confuse effect for cause, you'll always be wrong on the direction of causality.

Sounds like you read that in a fortune cookie.

You're really good at making assertions but never seem to have actual evidence that explains biological processes.

And when pressed for it it's either my prerogative to find it or you simply state it's my problem for not believing your assertions at face value.

We can agree that the body is in a constant state of repair. That does not mean the body is acting against itself.

#67 | POSTED BY RAY

Inflammatory events always cause collateral damage. Immune surveillance and tolerance are a balance of anti-self action and loss of action.

Cancer typically evades the immune response by acquiring abilities to hide itself from the recognition pathways that signal abberancy.

#73 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 05:22 PM | Reply

I expected that.

#69 | POSTED BY RAY

His arguments in opposition to HIV causing AIDS were laughable and required a complete suspension of logic or critical thought.

#74 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 05:23 PM | Reply

And why are the viruses created always so similar to each other and not the cells they're coming from?

Viruses are created by cells to clean up harmful toxic waste. Afterwards, they and the waste are eliminated.

#75 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 05:26 PM | Reply

And when pressed for it it's either my prerogative to find it or you simply state it's my problem for not believing your assertions at face value.

I could provide sources. But as you prove over and over again, you'll dismiss them.

When I come to this site, I already expect to get nowhere. Maybe I come here once in a while out of boredom.

What matters to me is that I've put those ideas into practice and they work.

#76 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 05:33 PM | Reply

That doesn't answer the question.

Nor does it explain why if you take a virus in a person and pass it to a new person it gives the same results.

Odd. Does that mean the second person is now being poisoned with the same nebulous "toxin" you're referring to? Being around that person shedding virus makes the person produce the same virus and it has nothing to do with viruses being infectious?

#77 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 05:34 PM | Reply

What matters to me is that I've put those ideas into practice and they work.

#76 | POSTED BY RAY

And them "working" can probably be explained by a variety of other explanations.

You choose this one because it's the one you've spent your life becoming invested in.

#78 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 05:35 PM | Reply

"Viruses are created by cells to clean up harmful toxic waste."

Can you name some of these viruses?
Is COVID-19 disease caused by one of these viruses?

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:43 PM | Reply

What matters to me is that I've put those ideas into practice and they work.
#76 | POSTED BY RAY

How so?
Did your cells produce viruses to clean up harmful toxins?
Which cells? Which viruses? Which toxins?

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:44 PM | Reply

Inflammatory events always cause collateral damage. Immune surveillance and tolerance are a balance of anti-self action and loss of action.

I have no problem with that assertion. All diseases can be reduced to two: malnutrition and toxemia. When they exceed the body's ability to maintain a healthy homeostasis, it has to do it's best to restore a healthy homeostasis.

Cancer typically evades the immune response by acquiring abilities to hide itself from the recognition pathways that signal abberancy.

Yes it does, for a reason consistent with the body trying to defend itself from an overload of toxicity. That way of thinking leads to a different train of thought. Namely to investigate the sufferer's dietary and emotional habits.

#81 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 05:46 PM | Reply

"All diseases can be reduced to two: malnutrition and toxemia."

Which kind is Cystic Fibrosis?
Which kind is Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome?
Which kind is Sickle Cell disease?

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 05:48 PM | Reply

And them "working" can probably be explained by a variety of other explanations.
You choose this one because it's the one you've spent your life becoming invested in.

Other lifestyles will work as long as they satisfy the body's need for sunshine, clean air, clean water, wholesome food, moderate exercise, light eating and a calm emotional disposition. Ignore any one will bring on disease if practiced long enough.

#83 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:01 PM | Reply

#83 Certainly has some truth in it, but not the whole truth.

Plenty of people smoke their whole lives and never get cancer. Plenty of people live right their whole lives and get cancer anyway.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 06:07 PM | Reply

Odd. Does that mean the second person is now being poisoned with the same nebulous "toxin" you're referring to? Being around that person shedding virus makes the person produce the same virus and it has nothing to do with viruses being infectious?

No. I argue that viruses are not contagious. They are part of the body's immune system like white cells and (drum roll) cancer cells.

Most important, if viruses could penetrate healthy cells from the outside, life could not exist.

#85 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:08 PM | Reply

Plenty of people smoke their whole lives and never get cancer.

But they are also susceptible to other diseases, especially circulatory diseases.

Plenty of people live right their whole lives and get cancer anyway.

They think they are living right. Cancer takes a long time to reach the clinical stage. There are usually warning signs over the years that were ignored.

#86 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:14 PM | Reply

"Most important, if viruses could penetrate healthy cells from the outside, life could not exist."

What does "penetrate from the outside" mean?

Is it possible that the cells are being penetrated from the inside?

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 06:14 PM | Reply

Do other things penetrate cells? Like hormones?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 06:15 PM | Reply

If we take this headline at face value.
"Coronavirus live news: US death toll surpasses 130,000"
www.theguardian.com

And divide 130,000 by the population of the USA: 326,000,000

You have a .04% risk of dying from Covid 19. This is a scam of epic proportions.

The real reasons are political.

#89 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:33 PM | Reply

Ray.
Based on your calculation method, please answer the following:
What was the risk of dying on the first day we had a confirmed COVID-19 case in the U.S. with no fatalities?
What was the risk of dying on the first day we had a confirmed death from COVID-19?
What will the risk of dying be when we finally have all the deaths accounted for and the outbreak is over?

#90 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-06 06:36 PM | Reply

"You have a .04% risk of dying from Covid 19."

Like, every day you're alive, or what?

Wasn't the risk like .004% a few months ago?

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 06:36 PM | Reply

This is a scam of epic proportions.

Like the flu, right Ray?

Only this one has already been 4 times more deadly than a typical flu season and isn't showing any signs of stopping over the summer.
Oh and death is only one outcome.

#92 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-06 06:38 PM | Reply

Yav and Snoofy

The answer in all cases is the risks are insignificant.

I find it laughable the thought that politicians care about saving lives.

This fake pandemic is an attempt to scare people into giving up their freedoms.

#93 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:45 PM | Reply

Wasn't the risk like .004% a few months ago?
#91 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I gave you my source numbers. Feel free to do the math yourself.

#94 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:47 PM | Reply

Only this one has already been 4 times more deadly than a typical flu season and isn't showing any signs of stopping over the summer.
Oh and death is only one outcome.

Oooooh. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

It's not stopping because the statistics are being pumped up.
Even then, they still don't amount to much more than the seasonal flu.

#95 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:52 PM | Reply

Even then, they still don't amount to much more than the seasonal flu.

#95 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 06:52 PM

Well, that's not true.

#96 | Posted by Zed at 2020-07-06 06:58 PM | Reply

It's not stopping because the statistics are being pumped up.

#95 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07

The gold doesn't exist unless you can sit on it; the bodies don't exist unless you see them buried.

#97 | Posted by Zed at 2020-07-06 07:00 PM | Reply

4 times isn't much more, and we're not through it?
And pumped up by who?

"Insignificant." Wow.

You know if you did the calculations in #90 they'd show that the chance of getting COVID-19 would be
ZERO at the beginning. How'd that work out?
Then it would have been 0.0000003%. Working out any better?
Now it's up to 0.04%. "insignificant"
All meaningless percentages anyway. Ratios created to shore up ridiculous arguments.

What counts is the number divided by those exposed. For fatalities, that is called the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR). The IFR is expected to be between 0.4 and 1.0 percent when all is done.

All this and we haven't addressed the non-fatal casualties.

#98 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-06 07:13 PM | Reply

What counts is the number divided by those exposed.

I've argued above that viruses are not contagious. I'm going to do it again.

All diseases are a measure of how well people have managed their health.

All this and we haven't addressed the non-fatal casualties.

Nor the rates by age and preconditions. When you do, you'll find the risks increase significantly with both.
Which reverts to my assertion that viruses are not contagious. They are a defense mechanism.

#99 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 07:40 PM | Reply

I've argued above that viruses are not contagious

99 | Posted by Ray

They won't replicate in preferred environments?

#100 | Posted by Zed at 2020-07-06 07:51 PM | Reply

Wasn't the risk like .004% a few months ago?
#91 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I have no idea what you are talking about.
I gave you my source numbers. Feel free to do the math yourself.
#94 | POSTED BY RAY

I find it hard to believe you have no idea what I'm talking about.

www.worldometers.info
On January 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were 0 in 327,000,000, or 0%.
On February 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were still 0 in 327,000,000, or 0%
On March 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were 6 in 327,000,000, or 0.00000002%
On April 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were 6,460 in 327,000,000, or 0.00002%
On May 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were 67,044 in 327,000,000, or 0.00002%
On June 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were 109,509 in 327,000,000, or 0.00003%
On July 1, our chances of dying from COVID-19 were 130,751 in 327,000,000, or 0.00004%

Our chances of dying from COVID-19 used to be zero.
Now, our chances of dying from COVID-19 have doubled in two months.
What's going to happen to our chances of dying from COVID-19 for the rest of the year and into next year, Ray?
Will it go up, go down, stay the same... or do you have no idea what I'm talking about?

#101 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 07:52 PM | Reply

"I've argued above that viruses are not contagious."

No, you've stated it.
You haven't presented any arguments.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 07:53 PM | Reply

Which reverts to my assertion that viruses are not contagious. They are a defense mechanism.
#99 | POSTED BY RAY

What is coronavirus defending us from? Sick people?

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 07:54 PM | Reply

"viruses are not contagious."

I sure hope it hurts to be that stupid.

#104 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 08:04 PM | Reply

0.00004%

Wrong. By division: .0004. In percentage terms: .04%

www.percentagecal.com

#105 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 08:07 PM | Reply

I sure hope it hurts to be that stupid.
#104 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

It hurts when I laugh at you. I sure hope you take the Gates vaccine.

#106 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 08:10 PM | Reply

"You have a .04% risk of dying from Covid 19"

YOU CANNOT BE THIS ------- STUPID. You're not only assuming all the people on earth will get Covid, but that all the people on earth who will get Covid HAVE GOTTEN COVID. Do you understand how contagion works, and what R0 means???

"viruses are not contagious."

No, you don't know.

You sound like the kind of moron who would've made better investments by stuffing money in a mattress, who then justifies his stupidity by stating his investment loss is now a great bargain!

#107 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 08:11 PM | Reply

"It hurts when I laugh at you. "

You should probably see a doctor if you have those symptoms.

#108 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 08:12 PM | Reply

#105 Sure.
Now, what are our chances next month, and the month after that?
Since our chances used to be zero, and now our chances are three times higher than dying in a car crash.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 08:13 PM | Reply

YOU CANNOT BE THIS ------- STUPID.

Why can't he?
I mean, just look at the evidence.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 08:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"the Gates vaccine."

Ooooh, another QAnon idiot afraid of the illuminati at his door! Quick: more sunshine and orange juice!!!

#111 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-06 08:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You have a .04% risk of dying from Covid 19"

Not really true, Ray.
The number you put up just reflects that 0.04% of Americans have died from COVID-19.
If risk worked the way you say, everyone else's risk should be at zero, now that those 0.04% have died from it.
But it's nice to know you would have not done anything to stop 9/11, since it was 45x less deadly than COVID-19 has been... and we're just getting started!

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 08:24 PM | Reply

When I see those insulting posts, I get a mental image of alpha male chimpanzees beating their chest, stomping up and down and making screeching noises.

#113 | Posted by Ray at 2020-07-06 08:30 PM | Reply

I'll ask again:

Your 0.04% chance of dying from COVID-19, why has it doubled in two months?

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-06 09:27 PM | Reply

No. I argue that viruses are not contagious. They are part of the body's immune system like white cells and (drum roll) cancer cells.

So how do you explain Koch's Postulates?

If your assertions were correct contact tracing wouldn't be an effective method of snuffing out diseases.

It is.

Unless you can explain that inconsistency you're not making any headway.

Most important, if viruses could penetrate healthy cells from the outside, life could not exist.

#85 | POSTED BY RAY

So the fact that we can characterize receptors and attachment factors in a dish, with cells lacking said factors being resistant to infection whereas you can express said factors (called complementation) in those cells and render them infectable...

Yeah, it's all entirely due to some nebulous "toxin" that remains undefined.

#115 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 11:54 PM | Reply

And divide 130,000 by the population of the USA: 326,000,000
You have a .04% risk of dying from Covid 19. This is a scam of epic proportions.
The real reasons are political.

#89 | POSTED BY RAY

This "math" is based entirely on the premise that nobody will get infected from this time forward.

Which is, needless to say, absurd.

#116 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-06 11:56 PM | Reply

Of course it is. Both Airborne and contact surface spread. Derp.

#117 | Posted by e1g1 at 2020-07-07 12:31 AM | Reply

#3 That's all you do?
I point the leaf blower at delivery guys.

#118 | Posted by eightfifteenpm at 2020-07-07 08:29 AM | Reply

"The real reasons are political."

No, the "real reasons" you landed on that number is you don't understand math.

Then again, what should we expect from someone who would've done better by stuffing the money in his mattress, yet still concludes losing money while others tripled theirs was a great investment?

#119 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-07 09:40 AM | Reply

Cause and effect logic has never been more abused than it is today.

#12 | Posted by humtake

YOu sure about that?

Once upon a time there was a political party that refused to acknowledge that rapidly releasing massive amounts of C02 into the air would affect the environment.

#120 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-07-07 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And divide 130,000 by the population of the USA: 326,000,000
You have a .04% risk of dying from Covid 19. This is a scam of epic proportions."

The scam is in your math skills.

You apparently have none.

You seriously don't know what is wrong with that equation?

Not everyone has covid yet dummy.

#121 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-07 12:41 PM | Reply

Let's keep this live, people.

Covid-19 is looking more and more like a weapon used for warfare..

I never trust outright chemtrail deniers. That project has been flying directly overhead for decades now. Normalized by Pixar and Disney products, parents and the youth would have no reason to consider it outside of normal aircraft behavior. Imo, this is war.

It then begs the natural questions.. who developed it and where. Do they understand the complete life cycle of this virus? If so, is this intended to depopulate slowly, painfully? Either way, it displays a stunning lack of comprehension and humanity fueling this deep black project.

#122 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-07-07 01:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Covid-19 is looking more and more like a weapon used for warfare..

No it does not. Good lord. No one 'developed' it just like no one developed you.

#123 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-07 06:19 PM | Reply

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