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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, July 27, 2020

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) referred to slavery as a "necessary evil" in arguing against use of The New York Times' 1619 Project in the classroom.

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Somehow Cotton would have a different view if he was the one being held down by systemic racism and had suffered as a slave.

BTW, he is traitor.

#1 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-07-27 06:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Cotton is Bolsonaro writ small.

#2 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2020-07-27 07:06 AM | Reply

NIXON

"BTW, he [Tom Cotton] is a traitor."

Sometimes it really is that simple.

freespeech.org COTTON RECIVED $1 MILLION DOLLARS FROM ISRAEL

#3 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-07-27 07:19 AM | Reply

When you start rationalizing-away slavery, as Cotton tried to do, you're a loser who will remain as such (outside Arkansas).

#4 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2020-07-27 07:20 AM | Reply

DOC

When you start rationalizing your role as a U.S. Senator, you're a loser who will remain such for the rest of your life.

#5 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-07-27 07:37 AM | Reply

"To be a slave is to live in fear"

Roy, a Replicant

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2020-07-27 08:22 AM | Reply

I'm not sure what Cotton meant by his comment, but when I read it, I thought of the John Adams miniseries I re-watched this past spring. Adams, Jefferson and Franklin had to take the anti-slavery clause out of the Declaration of Independence in order to get the Southern states to sign onto it:

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: We've no choice, John. The slavery clause has got to go.

John Adams: [stunned] Franklin, what are you saying?

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: It's a luxury we can't afford.

John Adams: [pause, then] 'Luxury?' A half million souls in chains... and Dr. Franklin calls it a 'luxury!' Maybe you should have walked out with the South!

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: [dangerous] You forget yourself sir. I founded the FIRST anti-slavery society on this continent.

John Adams: Oh, don't wave your credentials at me! Maybe it's time you had them renewed!

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: [angrily] The issue here is independence! Maybe you have forgotten that fact, but I have not! How DARE you jeopardize our cause, when we've come so far? These men, no matter how much we may disagree with them, are not ribbon clerks to be ordered about - they are proud, accomplished men, the cream of their colonies. And whether you like them or not, they and the people they represent will be part of this new nation that YOU hope to create. Now, either learn how to live with them, or pack up and go home!


I don't know if that's what Cotton had in mind when he called slavery a necessary evil, but if the portrayal in the miniseries is historical accurate, that is exactly how some of our Founding Fathers viewed it at the time:

Edward Rutledge: [In the final vote for Independence, Rutledge wants the slavery clause removed from the Declaration, or else he will vote against independence] Well, Mr. Adams?

John Adams: Well, Mr. Rutledge.

Edward Rutledge: [stands] Mr. Adams, you must believe that I *will* do what I promised to do.

John Adams: [stands and approaches him] What is it you want, Rutledge?

Edward Rutledge: Remove the offending passage from your Declaration.

John Adams: If we did that, we would be guilty of what we ourselves are rebelling against.

Edward Rutledge: Nevertheless... remove it, or South Carolina will bury, now and forever, your dream of independence.

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: John? I beg you consider what you're doing.

John Adams: Mark me, Franklin... if we give in on this issue, posterity will never forgive us.

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: That's probably true, but we won't hear a thing, we'll be long gone. Besides, what would posterity think we were? Demi-gods? We're men, no more no less, trying to get a nation started against greater odds than a more generous God would have allowed. First things first, John. Independence; America. If we don't secure that, what difference will the rest make?

John Adams: [long pause] Jefferson, say something.

Thomas Jefferson: What else is there to do?

John Adams: Well, man, you're the one that wrote it.

Thomas Jefferson: I *wrote* ALL of it, Mr. Adams.

[stands and goes to the Declaration, crosses out the clause]

John Adams: [snatches the paper from Jefferson and takes it to Rutledge] There you are, Rutlege, you have your slavery; little good may it do you, now VOTE, damn you!

Edward Rutledge: [takes the paper] Mr. President, the fair colony of South Carolina...

[looks at Adams]

Edward Rutledge: ... says yea.


www.imdb.com

#7 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 09:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

7

NW

It was either remove that clause or lose South Carolina.

Unity was more important at the moment, to those men.

Recognizing that and learning from it is what we are doing....not celebrating it.

It's as if we so many adults in this country who never really studied history and now are so shocked an appalled learning that our founders were flawed men who make mistakes personally, professionally and politically.

But they were pragmatists and passages like what Gal posted in 7 illustrate their decisions over slavery when declaring independence.

WTF, do some real ---- for brains out there really think slavery was never discussed, supported, and advocated for at the time?

Geez......

#8 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 09:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

WTF, do some real ---- for brains out there really think slavery was never discussed, supported, and advocated for at the time?

I still don't think it justifies the statement that slavery was a necessary evil to build the country.

And the fact that a civil war was fought over it's abolition suggests there was no path to that end.

It's a gross rewriting of history to make it sound as rosy as possible.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-27 11:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I still don't think it justifies the statement that slavery was a necessary evil to build the country."

Wasn't he quoting the founding fathers, who at the time, probably would have said it was a necessary evil?

#10 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 11:15 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Wasn't he quoting the founding fathers, who at the time, probably would have said it was a necessary evil?

#10 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Doesn't matter what delusions the slave holders convinced themselves of.

Just like it doesn't matter that they later convinced themselves that they were fighting for "state's rights."

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-27 11:24 AM | Reply

"Doesn't matter what delusions the slave holders convinced themselves of."

Historical context?

It's not an endorsement nor an excuse nor justification for anything.....

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 11:28 AM | Reply

For Franklin and Adams, I think one could say that slavery was a necessary evil because they needed to remove the anti-slavery clause for the Declaration in order to get the document passed and America as an independent nation established. Neither man supported slavery, far from it.

#13 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 11:38 AM | Reply

-Neither man supported slavery, far from it.

I'm sure many more as well. The anti-slavery clause wouldn't have been placed in the Declaration originally otherwise.

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 11:43 AM | Reply

#14 Good point.

#15 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 11:47 AM | Reply

Historical context?
It's not an endorsement nor an excuse nor justification for anything.....

#12 | POSTED BY EBERLY

My point is that taking history at face value isn't really a good idea.

The southern colonies requiring slavery be maintained wasn't because it was what was best for the colonies. It's what was best for them and their means of wealth production.

History is just as complex as the FFs were but also just as simplified as the FFs are.

*shrug* his statement just strikes me as lazy and an easy way to justify or bypass an uncomfortable topic because his interest is in cheer leading, not real discussion.

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-27 12:10 PM | Reply

16

so it's not what he said, it's what you think was in his heart and mind as he said it?

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 12:18 PM | Reply

so it's not what he said, it's what you think was in his heart and mind as he said it?

#17 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I guess you're reading comprehension sucks. Or you didn't read the article?

He cites the FF's excuses for keeping slavery in the US as away to gloss over what it really took to rid the country of slavery just so he could give the usual ------------ "we're the greatest evah!" message.

All in support of a law he wrote to suppress the desires of communities on how they want to educate their children.

In any case, it's no surprise you'd gloss over attempts to force nationalism to avoid criticizing a Repub.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-27 12:21 PM | Reply

Why anyone would put effort into defending this walking foot-in-mouth is a bit bizarre
It's not like he is going to be the savior of "conservatism" or whatever
The dude is toxic. Who wants to handle toxic waste for no apparent return

Weird.

#19 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-07-27 12:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Think of it this way, eberly. And yes, this is an extreme example on purpose, so don't Godwin's Law my post.

Do we learn about Nazism through the lens of Mein Kampf and intellectually discuss the "merits" of the arguments? Don't we look down on those Germans who went along, especially those who were officials or military members who may not have been party members but went along with the party?

Of course there are lots of nuances and endless hours of reading and discussions that could be had about the various FF's views on slavery, who was for who was against, what was the role and importance of slavery in the colonial economy, particularly the southern colonies...

That complexity in no way warrants boiling it down to a bumper sticker level just to brush it off and reach the predictable conclusion that it doesn't matter because weeee'rrrreeee great!

You know as well as I that in the end Cotton is nothing more than a jingoistic moron who's going to always come to that conclusion.

#20 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-27 12:59 PM | Reply

He who will make excuses for slavery in the past will make excuses for any manner of oppression in the present.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Wasn't he quoting the founding fathers, who at the time, probably would have said it was a necessary evil?"

Probably?
Let's see that quote.
They either said it or they didn't.

And if they didn't say it, will your opinion of Cotton change?

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:05 PM | Reply

I'm not trying to defend Cotton, for whom I have zero respect. Perhaps I have misunderstood Cotton's intentions. My original take was similar to this:

Dave Weigel @daveweigel

The Cotton quote is "as the Founding Fathers said, it was the necessary evil upon which the union was built, but the union was built in a way, as Lincoln said, to put slavery on the course to its ultimate extinction." Isn't that an accurate summary of some founders' argument?
7:06 PM Jul 26, 2020

#23 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 01:22 PM | Reply

Show me Founders calling slavery evil.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:25 PM | Reply

Because I can show you binders fulla wimmen... I mean Deplorables, who say what happens when you support the lesser evil.

I guess that didn't count when the Founders supported evil.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Tweet from Cotton about supporting evil... but here he's saying evil built the greatest country on earth.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:32 PM | Reply

*shrug* his statement just strikes me as lazy and an easy way to justify or bypass an uncomfortable topic because his interest is in cheer leading, not real discussion.
#16 | POSTED BY JPW

I think it's darker than that.

Whenever you mention the Founders, it's like on The Simpsons when they mention Jedediah Smith, the founder of Springfield. Suddenly it's a revered, unassailable source.

This is cheerleading and grandstanding.

But for what? For tolerating racism in America. You know, just like the Founders did. Racism might be bad, but it's also a "necessary evil."

Right down the garden path to Rosewood.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:48 PM | Reply

23

That is exactly my take as well.

I don't give a crap about Cotton and any scrutiny he gets is fair game. He threw it out there.

In fact, I didn't even say anything about Cotton.

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 01:50 PM | Reply

-he rejects the premise "that America is at root, a systemically racist country to the core and irredeemable"

If someone disagrees with Cotton and believe "America IS at root, a systemically racist country to the core and irredeemable", then fine.

Believe it if you want.

#28 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 01:52 PM | Reply

The anti-slavery clause wouldn't have been placed in the Declaration originally otherwise.
#14 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Give me a break.

The Declaration is a propaganda document designed to get both pro-slavery and anti-slavery colonists alike to support independence from the Crown. The anti-slavery clause is lip service.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:52 PM | Reply

As a family friend of Adams embarking on a major biography of Otis, the younger Tudor opened a correspondence with Adams. In 1819 Adams assisted by providing Tudor with much information, including transcriptions of important letters in Adams' possession. This was the time during the run-up to the Missouri Compromise of 1820, and the questions of slavery in the territories and the admission of Missouri as a slave state much interested Tudor, and in fact many in Massachusetts. Tudor wrote Adams on this subject on and elicited an important and now-famous response on November 20, 1819, with Adams writing unambiguously: "Negro Slavery is an evil of Colossal magnitude and I am utterly averse to the admission of Slavery into the Missouri Territories."

www.raabcollection.com

#30 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 01:53 PM | Reply

"If someone disagrees with Cotton and believe "America IS at root, a systemically racist country to the core and irredeemable", then fine."

I wouldn't say irredeemable.

Everything else is clearly the case, though.

Eberly, maybe we can agree that Cotton is... three-fifths right.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Negro Slavery is an evil of Colossal magnitude and I am utterly averse to the admission of Slavery into the Missouri Territories."

^
This was far from a universal belief.

The part where the Founders had slaves ought to clue you in to how evil they thought it was: Not so evil it couldn't be tolerated and enshrined in the new Constitution.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 01:57 PM | Reply

"That complexity in no way warrants boiling it down to a bumper sticker level just to brush it off and reach the predictable conclusion that it doesn't matter because weeee'rrrreeee great!"

"This is cheerleading and grandstanding."

Uh huh.....he's a career politician. A senator from Arkansas.

Not excusing it....just recognizing that.

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 01:58 PM | Reply

-Not so evil

IOW, a necessary evil? In their minds?

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 02:02 PM | Reply

Why Thomas Jefferson's Anti-Slavery Passage Was Removed from the Declaration of Independence

The Founding Fathers were fighting for freedom"just not for everyone.

With its soaring rhetoric about all men being "created equal," the Declaration of Independence gave powerful voice to the values behind the American Revolution. Critics, however, saw a glaring contradiction: Many of the colonists who sought freedom from British tyranny themselves bought and sold human beings. By underpinning America's nascent economy with the brutal institution of chattel slavery, they deprived roughly one-fifth of the population of their own "inalienable" right to liberty.

What isn't widely known, however, is that Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in an early version of the Declaration, drafted a 168-word passage that condemned slavery as one of the many evils foisted upon the colonies by the British crown. The passage was cut from the final wording. . . .

Indeed, removing Jefferson's condemnation of slavery would prove the most significant deletion from the Declaration of Independence. The founders' failure to directly address the question of slavery exposed the hollowness of the words "all men created equal." Nonetheless, the underlying ideals of freedom and equality expressed in the document have inspired generations of Americans to struggle to obtain their inalienable rights.


www.history.com

#35 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 02:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Calling him a "politician" is a bit of a both-siderism excuse.

Calling him a "Republican" would be calling it like it is.

No need for the smokescreen.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 02:03 PM | Reply

36

I should have said "a republican senator from the South" because apparently that's necessary in order for you to follow what I'm saying.

I dumb it down for you next time.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 02:05 PM | Reply

"inspired generations of Americans to struggle to obtain their inalienable rights."

"obtain their inalienable rights."

Can you really not see how that's a contradictory statement?

Black inalienable rights were alienated until the 1960s, and still today, but at least they're finally equal on paper.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 02:07 PM | Reply

"I dumb it down for you next time."

Dumb?

Dumb is pretending hes "just a politician" like they all are, and there isn't a stark political divide on Black Lives Matter.

Since you're not dumb, you must have been blurring that distinction for other reasons.

You were merely trying to live up to Saint Saint Reagan's Eleventh Commandment is what it looks like to me.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 02:11 PM | Reply

Dumb is acting like it's some new revelation that our FF were slave owners and today being all butthurt when a career politican says something to pander to his base.....like you and others here have.

When I said "some real ---- for brains", you came running right on cue. You weren't alone....it was a team effort for you all to show up and say "Hey, you're talking to ME, aren't you!!??"

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 02:16 PM | Reply

"what it looks like to me."

Of course...your interpretation is what this is about...not what it is.

You troll first, ask questions later.

I don't care.

back to the corner

#41 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 02:17 PM | Reply

#35 Third paragraph after the first two I quoted:

So while Jefferson is credited with infusing the Declaration with Enlightenment-derived ideals of freedom and equality, the nation's founding ----------- moral mission statement--would remain forever silent on the issue of slavery. That omission would create a legacy of exclusion for people of African descent that engendered centuries of struggle over basic human and civil rights.

#42 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-07-27 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't pretend to know what the country should think

But what I do know is this worm from Arkansas, the home of the KKK and the state known as the racist capital of the USA, is a racist

Ipso facto

His comments are nothing but a white supremacy fueled retelling of what the "founders" may or may not have believed

And of course, this racist dog whistle prompts the "not racists" dogs to provide backup rationale, you know, because they say they don't care or whatever

#43 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-07-27 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

he's a career politician.

He was a lawyer and then in the military from 2002-2013. He's only been in politics 7 years. Seems like a stretch to call him a "career politician."

#44 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-27 02:42 PM | Reply

"You troll first, ask questions later."

I didn't troll anyone.
I don't think I asked any questions either.
You simply cannot abide any criticism whatsoever, Eberly.
And that makes you look weak. Not strong.
Plonking people makes you look even weaker.

Thanks for reading and understanding.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:00 PM | Reply

"being all butthurt when a career politican says something to pander to his base.....like you and others here have."

Theres that "Career politician" thing again.

Again playing the both-siderism, like I've ever in my life called slavery a necessary evil.

Have you ever called slavery a necessary evil, Eberly?

If not, then stop making excuses for Republicans just because they're Republicans... oops I mean "career politicians."

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:03 PM | Reply

44

Fair enough.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 03:03 PM | Reply

I don't care.
back to the corner
#41 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You don't care so much that you're triggered.

It's disappointing you couldn't hold your ---- together for more than a week.

Very disappointing.

I'll say this again: Whatever is bothering you, it sure ain't little old Snoofy.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:06 PM | Reply

What I don't understand is why we're still talking about slavery all these years later.

I mean...people from the south are being forced to forget their history but blacks continue to yammer on?

Why not stay focused on the present and on the future?

In what ways can blacks in America help themselves so they can find some self respect the same way everyone finds it.

That will do more for them than more free stuff and playing the victim card.

#49 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 03:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"What I don't understand is why we're still talking about slavery all these years later."

It's because Cotton and the GOP is advancing the narrative that if the Founders said racism is a necessary evil, then that's good enough for us.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:16 PM | Reply

"I mean...people from the south are being forced to forget their history"

Which history have they been forced to forget, under Trump's presidency?

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:17 PM | Reply

"What I don't understand is why we're still talking about slavery all these years later."

It mobilizes voters.

#52 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 03:24 PM | Reply

"What I don't understand is why we're still talking about slavery all these years later."

It mobilizes voters.

#52 | Posted by eberly

While republicans are still doing their best to IMMObilize voters...well just the black ones.

What's it like to support a party that puts all its brainpower into finding ways to keep minorities from voting instead of solving the nation's problems?

#53 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-07-27 03:40 PM | Reply

-well just the black ones.

they aren't trying to screw over the hispanics, muslims, etc?

"What's it like to support a party that....blah blah blah"

It's great. I love voter suppression. If they'd let me stand out side a voting place with a weapon and let me threaten folks, I'd do it.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 03:44 PM | Reply

Where's BillJohnson to explain Dems attacking Slavery as completely wrong is another attack on White Christians so he is voting for Trump and Republicans again?

#55 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-07-27 03:44 PM | Reply

"...keep minorities from voting instead of solving the nation's problems?"

what if I think allowing minorities to vote ARE the Nation's problems.

#56 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 03:44 PM | Reply

What I don't understand is why we're still talking about slavery all these years later.

I mean...people from the south are being forced to forget their history but blacks continue to yammer on?

#49 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You answered your own question. You fell sorry for white supremacists losing their symbols of hatred yet blacks "yammer on" about America's greatest wrongdoing, the effects of which are still seen today.

So yeah, why can't we show off Nazi paraphernalia yet Jews get to "yammer on" about the Holocaust?

#57 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2020-07-27 03:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

That will do more for them than more free stuff and playing the victim card.

Referring to government benefits with the pejorative "free stuff" shows you're not ready to have an adult conversation.

Americans (black or not) receive nowhere near the safety net of our global economic peers. We're seeing the results of that play out in real time, where people are being forced to choose between economic ruin and competently addressing a deadly pandemic.

Countries that provide "free stuff" to their citizens instead of just to their billionaires not only helped their citizens ride out the closure orders relatively unscathed, they are now safely reopening while America still ----- the bed.

Thanks, Republicans.

#58 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-27 03:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

Should be noted that had we not declared independence it is most probable the slaves would have been freed earlier. England ended slavery in almost all of the British Empire in 1833. 800,000 slaves were freed.

#59 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 03:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

what if I think allowing minorities to vote ARE the Nation's problems.
#56 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Then you'd be a Republican!
Oh, you were being a Just Joking JeffJ?
Funny how it's only ever Republicans who make those jokes.

Let's switch it up a bit, got any good rape jokes?

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

59

Interesting. Any historians who have suggested that?

Not that I'm surprised if they did.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 03:55 PM | Reply

"Should be noted that had we not declared independence it is most probable the slaves would have been freed earlier."

Almost as though the Founders saw the coming end of slavery by the Crown as a threat to their "way of life..."

I mean, they were freakin' visionaries, right? Right?

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 03:56 PM | Reply

Had we not declared independence we could have avoided three wars. War of Independence, War of 1812 and the Civil War.

#63 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 03:59 PM | Reply

Danni, the war for independence was coming either way. Sooner or later

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 04:06 PM | Reply

"yammer on"

LOL.....I don't know why that's so funny but it is...

#65 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 04:07 PM | Reply

Derek,

Read my earlier posts.

I have no problem with the south losing the confederate flag.

I get it.

However I can't comprehend how blacks as a culture can move forward dragging around theirs ancestors chains not physically but still bound by the shame.

At some point some generation of young black people are going to want a different image for themselves that can only be made by them and not handed to them.

Force and violence is not in their best interest.

#66 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 04:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"the war for independence was coming either way."

Independence might not have been by war, though.

India didn't go to war to become free.
Canada didn't go to war to become free.
Australia didn't go to war to become free.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 04:14 PM | Reply

"However I can't comprehend how blacks as a culture can move forward dragging around theirs ancestors chains not physically but still bound by the shame."

Ask George Floyd how.
Ask Breonna Taylor how.

The shame is on the police who killed them.

Which means it's on us, all of us, since in a free society the right to govern comes from the consent of the governed.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 04:17 PM | Reply

Joe,

You sound like you think being white is an automatic boost in life.

I beg to differ but many of us were not born with silver spoons in our mouths and had to work hard to live the "white life" as you apparently think we all do.

#69 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 04:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"You sound like you think being white is an automatic boost in life.
I beg to differ but many of us were not born with silver spoons in our mouths"

How many times have you been pulled over or otherwise stopped because you fit the description? How many times because the officer claimed to smell marijuana? How many times have you been hit by a police officer?

That's your boost. It's called "not getting treated like a N-----."

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 04:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You sound like you think being white is an automatic boost in life.

How the ---- did you gather that from my post?

Seriously, how?

#71 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-27 04:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"However I can't comprehend how blacks as a culture can move forward dragging around theirs ancestors chains not physically but still bound by the shame."

Other cultures have been dragging their ancestors around for thousands of years.

#72 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 04:24 PM | Reply

Joe,

Too much "free stuff" has created millions of people of all races who simply go through life with their hands out expecting to be handed things.

This isn't anything you didn't already know.

#73 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 04:24 PM | Reply

"You sound like you think being white is an automatic boost in life."

Statistically it is.

#74 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 04:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Danni,

Yea...look at some of those cultures.

It's fine honoring your ancestors but there's something unhealthy about dwelling on so much negativity.

#75 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 04:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Too much "free stuff" has created millions of people of all races who simply go through life with their hands out expecting to be handed things."

Stop giving "free stuff" to the wealthy who do not need it.

Or they will just expect more.

As for the Hoo Polloi, if you take away their ability to feed themselves or earn a living wage then you are obligated to feed them. For the General Welfare of the State.

#76 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 04:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Too much "free stuff" has created millions of people of all races who simply go through life with their hands out expecting to be handed things."

Jesus really screwed up when he multiplied those loaves and fishes!

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 04:36 PM | Reply

The Hoo Polloi.

From Hooville.

#78 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 04:40 PM | Reply

#77

How about when he made the first church in Jerusalem a straight up sell all, share all commune?

#79 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-27 04:41 PM | Reply

Joe,
You sound like you think being white is an automatic boost in life.
I beg to differ but many of us were not born with silver spoons in our mouths and had to work hard to live the "white life" as you apparently think we all do.

#69 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Are you really suggesting being born white doesn't give you an automatic boost in life over being born black?

Really? Are you that dumb?

#80 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-07-27 04:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

It's fine honoring your ancestors but there's something unhealthy about dwelling on so much negativity.

#75 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

I honestly am not sure I have enough crayons to explain this to you...

RACISM IS STILL A HUGE ISSUE AND STATUES AND FLAGS HONORING A GROUP OF TRAITORS FOR BEING RACIST PIECES OF ---- ISN'T HELPING

Why not put up statues of Hitler and Osama bin Laden? You'd be pissed but why are you dwelling on so much negativity, bro?

#81 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-07-27 04:45 PM | Reply

Joe,

My apologies for misreading you.

#82 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 04:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Been hearing a lot about Tom Cotton.

Seems like he'll be the GOP 2024 presidential candidate.

Apparently he makes Trump seem like a moderate.

#83 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-07-27 04:47 PM | Reply

Jesus, the cluelessness on this thread is at shake-my-head level.

Thanks for fighting the good fight Snoofy, Joe and Sycophant. I have a hard time keeping up by phone a couple check-ins per day.

Tom Cotton is dangerous and disingenuous.

#84 | Posted by cbob at 2020-07-27 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Too much "free stuff" has created millions of people of all races who simply go through life with their hands out expecting to be handed things.
#73 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-07-27 04:24 PM | FLAG: Supports corporate welfare and trillion dollar tax breaks for the wealthy

What a pawn you are.

You're the problem with America.

Stupid as ---- and proud of it.

Stop voting.

#85 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-07-27 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Will all non historians please stop talking about this?

This goes double for cotton.

#86 | Posted by Tor at 2020-07-27 04:57 PM | Reply

Tom Cotton is an unnecessary evil.

#87 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 05:00 PM | Reply

You don't have to be a historian to know that slavery was unnecessary but what we decided to do.

We as a group decided to be evil. It was NOT necessary that we enslave our fellow man. But we did it anyway because it was easier than doing all the work ourselves(speaking for my ancestors).

#88 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 05:02 PM | Reply

Too much "free stuff" has created millions of people of all races who simply go through life with their hands out expecting to be handed things.
-Bill

How do you explain our economic peers who give more "free stuff" to their citizens than we do? How do countries like Denmark run a government surplus?

Could it be that competent first-world public policy actually improves the lives of millions and boosts the economy as a result?

#89 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-27 05:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

It's great. I love voter suppression. If they'd let me stand out side a voting place with a weapon and let me threaten folks, I'd do it.

#54 | Posted by eberly

Well whether you love it or not, you support a party that supports it.

Let me guess, you fell for the fox news story about black panthers scaring away white people from voting? Why do you think they had to keep using that 1 video clip for 3 years on fox news?

#90 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-07-27 05:06 PM | Reply

"How do countries like Denmark run a government surplus?"

My favorite answer to this question is:
They don't have as many blacks as we do to drag everyone else down!

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 05:07 PM | Reply

"Well whether you love it or not, you support a party that supports it"

Eberly thinks there's a gulf of difference between supporting something and making jokes about supporting something.
When in fact it's more like a small creek.
With a footbridge built on jokes and being coy.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 05:09 PM | Reply

Also I see no one addressed Tom Cotton's Big Lie that America is the most equal country in the world.

It is not. It is not even in the top ten when it comes to gender equality.

I am pretty sure it doesn't rate number one in any other category any more.

Thanks to Republicans.

www.businessinsider.com

#93 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 05:21 PM | Reply

"Let me guess,"

what else do you do?

#94 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-27 05:24 PM | Reply

what else do you do?

#94 | Posted by eberly

YOu're right. No guessing is required. Anyone who bought the "black panthers at the polls" story is guaranteed to be a fox news watching sucker.

#95 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-07-27 05:32 PM | Reply

I thought of the John Adams miniseries I re-watched this past spring. Adams, Jefferson and Franklin had to take the anti-slavery clause out of the Declaration of Independence in order to get the Southern states to sign onto it:

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: We've no choice, John. The slavery clause has got to go.

John Adams: [stunned] Franklin, what are you saying?

...

#7 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Actually that dialog came out of the movie '1776', which I watch every Independence Day, like clockwork.

BTW, I've got the director's cut where they put back in the scenes that Richard Nixon demanded be removed when he saw a private showing of the pre-release theatrical cut in the White House in 1970. He had them remove the performance of a number titled "Cool, Cool, Considerate Men", which depicted Revolutionary War era conservatives as power-hungry individuals who focused on maintaining their wealth above most everything else. He demanded that this be removed and the negative destroyed, which he was told that it had. Jack L. Warner, the film's producer, lied and said they destroyed the original negative of that segment and all copies. The film was released in 1972 without that scene, but when it was re-released in 2002, they put all the stuff that had been cut out from the original, back in. Nixon was long dead, so who cared what he thought.

OCU

#96 | Posted by OCUser at 2020-07-27 06:01 PM | Reply

"Richard Nixon demanded be removed when he saw a private showing of the pre-release theatrical cut in the White House in 1970. He had them remove the performance of a number titled "Cool, Cool, Considerate Men", which depicted Revolutionary War era conservatives as power-hungry individuals who focused on maintaining their wealth above most everything else."

Now that's how you erase history!

Tor, I hope you're taking notes.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 06:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Now that's how you erase history!"

But only for them what can't read.

Which is apparently Trumpy's entire base.

Apparently.

#98 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 06:21 PM | Reply

"It's fine honoring your ancestors but there's something unhealthy about dwelling on so much negativity."

Jews celebrate Passover every year. Why are they celebrating?

Why is Moses still revered? Cuz he led the Jews out of....wait for it....slavery.

#99 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 06:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

"Force and violence is not in their best interest."

Why is the force and violence of colonists who want to secede from England ok but it's not ok for anyone else. And why did the colonists really want to revolt? They didn't like paying their taxes. The "No taxation without representation" is a bunch of propaganda. American colonists had about the same representation in Parliament as did the average citizen of England and I have read several historians who say that. WE revolted, in large part due to corporate power too well connected to the government, the Great East India Tea Company had King George's ear, sort of like Wall St. being bailed out right now by the Fed while the Republicans want to reduce unemployment from the Federal Government from $600.00 to $200.00. REalize that all the unemployed were not low wage workers, many have high rents and mortgages. The hypocrisy going on in America right now is sickening.

#100 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 06:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's fine honoring your ancestors but there's something unhealthy about dwelling on so much negativity."

No, there would be something unhealthy about not objecting to police brutality and murder. There is something unhealthy about someone who thinks otherwise.

#101 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-27 06:59 PM | Reply

"No, there would be something unhealthy about not objecting to police brutality and murder."

And we are a very unhealthy nation these days.

The Democrats were absolutely on the right track when they tried to tackle our failed healthcare system. If we had truly taken it on and really fixed it we would be in so much better shape now. Imagine all those unemployed who wouldn't have has to also worry about their healthcare now.

Instead we are no better off than Brazil.

#102 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-27 07:06 PM | Reply

Danni,

"Why is the force and violence of colonists who want to secede from England ok but it's not ok for anyone else."

Did we keep fighting England after we won our independence or did we do something with our new found freedom?

Did we keep on crying about how England treated us or did we look to ourselves to build new lives?

When are the likes of Al Sharpton going to stop picking old sores?

The problem with a few bad cops is something that needs addressed.

Telling blacks to perpetually feel like victims is making them feel powerless.

#103 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 07:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Force and violence is not in their best interest.

Signed,
Anne Frank

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 07:11 PM | Reply

"Telling blacks to perpetually feel like victims is making them feel powerless."

Are blacks being victimized or not?
Breonna Taylor. Victim, or not?

Nobody's telling them to feel like victims.
The issue of the Black Lives Matter movement is that blacks are in fact victims.

This isn't about feelings, BillJohnson.
It's about systemic oppression.

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 07:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Joe,

"How do countries like Denmark run a government surplus?"

Why don't you move there?

#106 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 07:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Why don't you move there?

#106 | Posted by BillJohnson

Why don't you move to somalia? I hear the taxes are really low.

#107 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-07-27 07:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Force and violence is not in their best interest.
Signed,
Anne Frank

#104 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-07-27 07:11 P

How did hiding in the attic work out for Anne? I forgot how that one ended.

#108 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 07:34 PM | Reply

How'd it work out?
Well, Anne Frank lived longer than these guys did:

The Warsaw ghetto uprising was a violent revolt that occurred from April 19 to May 16, 1943, during World War II. Residents of the Jewish ghetto in Nazi-occupied Warsaw, Poland, staged the armed revolt to prevent deportations to Nazi-run extermination camps. The Warsaw uprising inspired other revolts in extermination camps and ghettos throughout German-occupied Eastern Europe. www.history.com

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 07:47 PM | Reply

"An estimated 7,000 Jews perished during the Warsaw ghetto uprising, while nearly 50,000 others who survived were sent to extermination or labor camps. It's believed that the Germans lost several hundred men in the uprising."

You like them odds, Byrdman?

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 07:49 PM | Reply

How'd it work out for Randy Weaver and David Koresh and MOVE?
All armed.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 07:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"An estimated 7,000 Jews perished during the Warsaw ghetto uprising, while nearly 50,000 others who survived were sent to extermination or labor camps. It's believed that the Germans lost several hundred men in the uprising."
You like them odds, Byrdman?

#110 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-07-27 07:49 PM

Yeah actually. I'd rather go out fighting over living a little while longer just to be killed all the same.

#112 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 07:54 PM | Reply

You'd rather go out fighting.

George Floyd fighting or Breonna Taylor fighting or Philando Castile fighting or Tamir Rice fighting?

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 07:57 PM | Reply

"Yeah actually. I'd rather go out fighting over living a little while longer just to be killed all the same."

Well so long as you realize you're dead either way, and your guns won't protect you, then you've made progress.
But you still haven't realized that.

Why didn't guns protect MOVE? Why didn't guns protect Randy Weaver? Why didn't guns protect David Koresh?
Why do you believe your guns will protect you any better?

Seriously, why>?
Do you even have examples of such protection working?
When did the government just back off and not get the arrest, or just kill the person eventually anyway?

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy,

George and Philando were killed peacefully complying. George was on the ground with a knee to his neck. Philando was shot during a peaceful traffic stop. None of these situations are remotely linked to an oppressed group fighting against oppressors. This country wouldn't even exist if everyone thought like you. Wow all you do is distort reality to justify hiding like a coward.

#115 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 08:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy google Ammon Bundy.

#116 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 08:05 PM | Reply

Ammon Bundy who spent two years in Federal prison?

He's your poster child for guns keeping you free?

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:06 PM | Reply

"None of these situations are remotely linked to an oppressed group fighting against oppressors."

They're linked, because in both cases, it was the oppressors who killed them.

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:07 PM | Reply

"This country wouldn't even exist if everyone thought like you"

So freaking what?

You wouldn't exist if everyone thought like you, because then you'd have no mother.

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:07 PM | Reply

Simpleton Tom Cotton is out of his freaking cotton-picking mind!

#120 | Posted by BingyBunny at 2020-07-27 08:08 PM | Reply

" Wow all you do is distort reality to justify hiding like a coward."

Isn't that what Koresh was doing, is that what MOVE was doing, is that what Randy Weaver was doing?
They were hiding, holed up in their respective compounds.

They should have taken the fight right to the Feds, then?
Stormed a wildlife refuge, like your boy Ammon Bundy?
Who won that siege, the cowboys in need of snacks, or the United States government?

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:10 PM | Reply

"justify hiding like a coward."

Whereas your justification for guns is you would be scared of a knife fight.
You justify arming up like a coward.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:12 PM | Reply

Ammon Bundy who spent two years in Federal prison?

#117 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

He was eventually acquitted and a group of armed people withstood the govt for several weeks. And no they aren't linked. If Philando Castille was in a militia group that was fighting for BLM that would be linked. Instead he was pulled over for a traffic stop. Informed the officer he was armed and got shot for no reason. They clearly are not the same. No matter how you put it. They aren't the same.

#123 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 08:13 PM | Reply

Whereas your justification for guns is you would be scared of a knife fight.
You justify arming up like a coward.

#122 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-07-27 08:12 PM

To protect myself from potential interlopers I choose to be armed up. I believe in being prepared for whatever comes my way. If you believe your fists or whatever weapons you have at your home is enough be my guest. I won't tell you how to defend yourself.

#124 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 08:17 PM | Reply

"And no they aren't linked."

Bull. In your Second Amendment fantasies, your guns protect you from government
Cops are the force projection mechanism of the government.

"No matter how you put it. They aren't the same."
Are MOVE HQ, the Branch Davidian Compound, and Randy Weaver the same?

Why don't you run us down a quick history of how their guns protected them?

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:20 PM | Reply

#122 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-07-27 08:12 PM
To protect myself from potential interlopers I choose to be armed up.

I protect myself from potential interlopers by having my stuff insured and living in a nice neighborhood.

How many break-ins have you had? How many intruders have you killed?

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:21 PM | Reply

Why don't you move there?
-Bill

Plenty of reasons, not the least of which is they don't want anyone from this Covid-ridden -------- coming to their country. But it's quite telling that instead of addressing a comparable data point that shows you to have an inconsistent argument that you instead choose the copout of "leave then."

#127 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-27 08:28 PM | Reply

To protect myself from potential interlopers I choose to be armed up.

Yeah. I'd move.

#128 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-27 08:40 PM | Reply

HA HA HA Bill Johnsen is blathering about slavery and the left is telling him to move to Africa... Beautiful!

#129 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-07-27 08:52 PM | Reply

Donner,

"Stop giving "free stuff" to the wealthy who do not need it."

Who needs to give them anything?

They steal it legally.

#130 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 08:54 PM | Reply

Are MOVE HQ, the Branch Davidian Compound, and Randy Weaver the same?
Why don't you run us down a quick history of how their guns protected them?

#125 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-07-27 08:20 PM |

Not too familiar with Move HQ, The Branch Davidians while armed they didn't have much of a fighting force. Mostly women looking after children. David Koresh basically set up a system where he could have sex with lots of women so he wasn't going to have a lot of men at the compound. Weaver was out-manned and out-gunned. If a group of several thousand protesters banded together they would be a real force to be reckoned with. I live where I live. Not much I can do about it. Several years back I lived in an apartment complex where the tenant across the hall was a victim of a home invasion. 3 men took turns assaulting her. I didn't know her very well so I don't what became of her but I believe if she had a firearm she could have thwarted the attack.

#131 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-27 09:50 PM | Reply

Republicans are just as necessary an evil as slavery.

#132 | Posted by chuffy at 2020-07-27 10:02 PM | Reply

I mean...people from the south are being forced to forget their history but blacks continue to yammer on?
Why not stay focused on the present and on the future?
In what ways can blacks in America help themselves so they can find some self respect the same way everyone finds it.
That will do more for them than more free stuff and playing the victim card.

#49 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

And I'll bet Bill would be offended if you called him racist.

#133 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 08:25 AM | Reply

"What I don't understand is why we're still talking about slavery all these years later."
It mobilizes voters.

#52 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Looks like Ebs has a bit of a racist streak as well.

#134 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 08:56 AM | Reply

It's fine honoring your ancestors but there's something unhealthy about dwelling on so much negativity.

#75 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Unbelievable.

Bill's wife: I'm tired of you hitting me. It's been going on for 40 years.

Bill: Stop dragging around so much negativity.

Idiot.

#135 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 09:01 AM | Reply

Stupid as ---- and proud of it.

The perfect bumper sticker for the "c-c-conservatives" in your life!

#136 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 09:03 AM | Reply

Did we keep fighting England after we won our independence or did we do something with our new found freedom?
Did we keep on crying about how England treated us or did we look to ourselves to build new lives?

Dude. There's man lying in state who fought for the rights of blacks to use any restaurant they chose. To ride a bus in whatever seat they chose. To use whatever ------- water fountain they chose.

They fight because they've had to fight even after they had their "new found freedom."

You're either insanely ignorant of history or a racist in denial. Just STFU either way.

#137 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 09:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Whereas your justification for guns is you would be scared of a knife fight.
You justify arming up like a coward.

#122 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You're a coward if you want to avoid a knife fight?

#138 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 09:12 AM | Reply

Jpw,

Why not just add me to your list of posters you don't see their posts.

Works great. Has added to my enjoyment of this site immensely.

You won't have to be bothered with reading or responding my posts.

Hey...everyone...block my account see if I can break the plonk record.

#139 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-28 09:56 AM | Reply

134

You're nothing but Snoofy's twin brother, troll.

Own it.

#140 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 10:15 AM | Reply

"I won't tell you how to defend yourself."

I completely agree.

See, I'm of the same opinion of many others here who don't have a gun, don't feel the need to get a gun, etc.

I have zero guns in my home. Doesn't bother me.

But some others here aren't satisfied with that...they want you to give up your guns, apparently. It's good enough that you respect their position and you move on with your life and expect them to move on with theirs.

Nope...they have to get into YOUR kitchen about your choices.

#141 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 10:20 AM | Reply

"a racist in denial"

Of course....everyone who doesn't completely agree with you has to be a racist.

And race baiters like this believe this type of trolling works.

#142 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 10:21 AM | Reply

You're nothing but Snoofy's twin brother, troll.
Own it.

#140 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Hardly.

When people make stupid jokes long enough it's reasonable to expect they're avoiding saying what they're really saying because it's not a good thing to say.

#143 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:34 AM | Reply

Of course....everyone who doesn't completely agree with you has to be a racist.
And race baiters like this believe this type of trolling works.
#142 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I very very rarely use the term racist towards a person. So I'm hardly a "race baiter."

In any case, what other conclusion do you want me to reach when he posts the stuff he posts?

Literally, there is a man lying in state right now who fought for black people to not be second class citizens. THOSE PEOPLE ARE STILL ALIVE!

Yet daring to point out that the "new found freedom" wasn't new found or freedom is "yammering on."

Seriously, you're ------ in the head if you think that Bill is positing a rational position here.

So stop whining as if this is a simple disagreement and Bill is some misunderstood victim. His posts are loud and clear.

He's ignorant as ---- or a racist.

And so are you if you're stooping to defending him.

#144 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:37 AM | Reply

Why not just add me to your list of posters you don't see their posts.

Because I'm not a firm believer in plonking.

I've only ever plonked two people and it was because they filled threads with so much crap I got tired of sifting through it.

#145 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:38 AM | Reply

144

so to sum it up again....Bill's a racist and so am I.

But you're not a racebaiter.

got it.

we're done.

#146 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 10:38 AM | Reply

THOSE PEOPLE ARE STILL ALIVE!

Meaning civil rights activists are still alive.

Thought I'd self correct that before you use it as a means of ignoring the meat of the post.

#147 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:40 AM | Reply

But you're not a racebaiter.
got it.
we're done.

#146 | POSTED BY EBERLY

---- off then.

If you're so stupid as to resort to cliche labels because you're empty head is giving you a blue screen of death have at it.

#148 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:42 AM | Reply

148

you first, if you can find your dick.

#149 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 10:42 AM | Reply

BTW your tucking tail and running like a little bitch suggests I'm hitting close to the mark.

Congrats, Eberly. Coming out (of sorts) must be liberating.

#150 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:42 AM | Reply

Ohhhh a---------- "insult."

Oh no she didn't!

#151 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:43 AM | Reply

I love watching folks lose their ---- here.

On behalf of everyone here, thanks for the show.

#152 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 10:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Seriously, though.

Instead of running (just trolling with the insults) why not explain to me how bill's flippant comments about an issue that never really resolved can be construed as anything other than ignorant or racist?

Really, it's not that black people were abused for centuries in this country and only just received a modicum of fair treatment within our grandparent's (some poster's parent's) generation. It's that they're just negative nancies.

C'mon dude. Explain it to me please.

#153 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:45 AM | Reply

I love watching folks lose their ---- here.
On behalf of everyone here, thanks for the show.

#152 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Right. Chirping "race baiter!" and resorting to school yard "insults" is totally keeping your composure.

#154 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 10:46 AM | Reply

awwww c'mon ebs. I'm genuinely curious how one interprets Bill's statements in a positive light.

#155 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 11:18 AM | Reply

Guess not.

I'll add a third option, then.

You're chirping "race baiter" is because you're ignorant, racist or have nothing to add to explain it.

Wait, that's pretty much ignorance. Never mind.

#156 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 11:40 AM | Reply

"...they can find some self respect the same way everyone finds it."

By denying who they are, and succumbing to societal pressures from the majority!
~BJ

#157 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-28 12:00 PM | Reply

"The project, released in 2019, explored historical connections between capitalism and slavery and showed why racism -- slavery's most obvious legacy in this country -- is one of the primary reasons we don't have a universal health care system like most of the developed world. The project raised the kinds of questions -- and presciently provided historical references and citations -- students need to grapple with during a time such as this."

Yeah. It's always a good idea to tie political goals to education. Maybe we can find a former Soviet educator to help craft that policy.

#158 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 12:34 PM | Reply

"The Branch Davidians while armed they didn't have much of a fighting force."

So Koresh and a handful of armed men... weren't safe with their guns.

"Weaver was out-manned and out-gunned. If a group of several thousand protesters banded together they would be a real force to be reckoned with."

So Weaver alone... wasn't safe with his guns.

Moments later,

"3 men took turns assaulting her. I didn't know her very well so I don't what became of her but I believe if she had a firearm she could have thwarted the attack."

But a a woman alone... would have been safe with her guns.

Can you not see how you just did a complete 180, Byrdman?

Two real examples of guns providing no defense... And still you think, if only she had a gun, she could have fought back, even though Koresh couldn't and Weaver couldn't!

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 12:40 PM | Reply

"Yeah. It's always a good idea to tie political goals to education. Maybe we can find a former Soviet educator to help craft that policy."

Meanwhile, in America:

Betsy DeVos wants to re-open the schools to support Trump's re-election campaign.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 12:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

so to sum it up again....Bill's a racist and so am I.

But you're not a racebaiter.

Most correct thing you've written in months, even if unintentional.

#161 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 12:43 PM | Reply

"Betsy DeVos wants to re-open the schools to support Trump's re-election campaign."

OK?

As opposed to some other candidate who would shut them all down?

#162 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 12:51 PM | Reply

As opposed to being a Soviet.

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 12:54 PM | Reply

I don't get what your point was. If parents are against sending their kids to school out of fear of COVID, they don't have to send them to school. They can do homeschooling. So there's really not a political price for Trump to pay by re-opnening schools.

On the other hand, he's going to appeal to those parents who want their kids to return to school. So why wouldn't he push for re-opening?

It's time for my kids to get back to school.

#164 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:02 PM | Reply

Dumbest premise ever. Of course we have to teach slavery. Otherwise, we are rewriting history books AND we are not teaching kids the wrongs of slavery. Without that, they will never learn how to admonish the SLAVERY THAT EXISTS ALL OVER THE GLOBE TODAY. It's as if so many Dems just don't care that slavery exists everywhere and has existed for FAR longer than America has existed, and white people have been slaves in the past too. Instead, all they care about is ruining America by insisting that white people are bad and should be slaves to what minorities want. That's basically what BLM is about. I'd love for it to be about equality but that ended at the point when Dems started demanding that if you don't do what they say, then you are a bad person.

#165 | Posted by humtake at 2020-07-28 01:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"So why wouldn't he push for re-opening?"

Because re-opening will get children, their families, their teachers, and the rest of school staff sick.

Why wouldn't he push for letting patents decide?

#166 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:13 PM | Reply

Why wouldn't he push for letting teachers decide?

Why wouldn't he push for letting America's roughly 12,000 school districts make their own call?

Remember when you pretended to believe in small government?

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:15 PM | Reply

"Instead, all they care about is ruining America by insisting that white people are bad and should be slaves to what minorities want."

What do minorities want?
Why would it ruin America?
Be specific.

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:17 PM | Reply

Yeah. It's always a good idea to tie political goals to education. Maybe we can find a former Soviet educator to help craft that policy.

#158 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You mean like glossing over slavery to get to the 'Murica the Greatest part?

#169 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 01:17 PM | Reply

It's time for my kids to get back to school.

#164 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

It's time for you to stop speaking above your pay grade.

#170 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 01:20 PM | Reply

he's going to appeal to those parents who want their kids to return to school.

I think point was that decisions in a pandemic should be based on science, not what some emotionally exhausted voters might like you to do.

Before you deflect, i'm not saying whether re-opening schools is good or bad, just saying what that decision should be based on. As a "libertarian" you should understand that what a bunch of people might want from government cannot always be given to them.

#171 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 01:21 PM | Reply

"and resorting to school yard "insults" is totally keeping your composure.

#154 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2020-07-28 10:46 AM "

I am laughing at the king of schoolyard rhetoric who calls hinmself JPW. Such cluelessness is rarely seen,

#172 | Posted by rjm53 at 2020-07-28 01:40 PM | Reply

It's time for my kids to get back to school.
#164 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

It's not even August.
Sounds like you just don't like spending time with your kids.
Have you considered getting them tents and a one-way ticket to Papua New Guinea?

#173 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why wouldn't he push for letting patents decide?"

Parents always decide.

For some parents who have children with medical conditions, it could be very dangerous. And even someone like Joe, who was simply terrified of the virus, can keep their kids at home. Home schooling is always an option. That hasn't changed.

#174 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:57 PM | Reply

I am laughing at the king of schoolyard rhetoric who calls hinmself JPW. Such cluelessness is rarely seen,

#172 | POSTED BY RJM53

Did you have goatshart plonked?

#175 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 02:01 PM | Reply

"Parents always decide."

Then why is he pushing for schools to open?

#176 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:01 PM | Reply

"I think point was that decisions in a pandemic should be based on science, not what some emotionally exhausted voters might like you to do."

It is based on science. Or at least a threat-based scientific analysis of what the risks could be. If I were a parent who had a lot of medical issues, I would talk to my child about the risks they would pose to me by attending class. I'm not saying that they wouldn't go, but we would have to decide collectively what was best for the family. Same thing if I were a parent with a sickly child. You would need to balance the risk of attending school with the cost of not attending.

And I say this would be based on a scientific threat analysis, but that wouldn't exactly be true. We know that a child's commute to school is of far greater risk to a child than COVID, but that's a risk that society has long gotten used to, and largely ignores. COVID is still new enough to appear more dangerous to people than it actually is. Perception plays a large role in the decision calculus with COVID.

#177 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 02:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Then why is he pushing for schools to open?"

For the parents who decide to send their kids to school.

#178 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 02:02 PM | Reply

"And even someone like Joe, who was simply terrified of the virus, can keep their kids at home."

But... how is he supposed to homeschool the while he's also working?

Tell us how you would do it, MadBomber?

How would you homeschool your kids while you're also working your day job?

#179 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It is based on science.

Okay, great.

Sounded like you were defending basing it on politics and attracting votes.

#180 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 02:03 PM | Reply

"Then why is he pushing for schools to open?"

For the parents who decide to send their kids to school.

^
Nope, that's not it.

Explain how you're going to homeschool your kids while you're working, and you'll be closer to the answer.

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:05 PM | Reply

"emotionally exhausted voters"

you poor thing.

oh, and we know...you didn't mean you when you typed that.

LOL

#182 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 02:10 PM | Reply

"I think point was that decisions in a pandemic should be based on science"

What's science say, about the role of schools in spreading disease?

Schools can't keep head lice out, you think they can keep a virus out?

Or is it that you think schools shouldn't even try to keep lice out?

#183 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:10 PM | Reply

Send em' back to school. Open everything up,no restrictions. Get those worthless losers off unemployment and back to WORK for their BETTERS.
Ask not what your job can do for you,ask what you can do to help your boss get richer.

The markets need more stimulus. People's lives are less than the value of overpriced equities.

Worship your betters. They know best and best is that you do your job without complaint or legal recourse if injured by the bosses need for MORE.

People don't matter unless they have property.

Money is more important than living things. Cash is eternal,Like GOD.

#184 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-07-28 02:22 PM | Reply

"It is based on science. Or at least a threat-based scientific analysis of what the risks could be."

Nice bait and switch.

From science to threat-based risk analysis in the same breath.

You probably don't even realize you baited and switched yourself.

Let's talk about scope.

Does your threat based risk analysis include the teachers, administrators, and support staff, or are any losses there inconsequential?

Does your threat based risk analysis include the families of the children, or are any losses there inconsequential?

Does your threat based risk analysis include non-fatal complications of COVID-19 disease, or are those losses inconsequential?

Does your threat based risk analysis account for large extracurricular group events like football games and school dances, or are those threats outside of scope?

#185 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:23 PM | Reply

oh, and we know...you didn't mean you when you typed that.

Glad to hear that you know something. I don't have a school aged child so this doesn't apply to me. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that many parents trying to work FT and assist with virtual/home learning are being emotionally taxed. I guess that qualifier might count you out?

#186 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 02:23 PM | Reply

"We know that a child's commute to school is of far greater risk to a child than COVID, but that's a risk that society has long gotten used to, and largely ignores. COVID is still new enough to appear more dangerous to people than it actually is. Perception plays a large role in the decision calculus with COVID."

I wish that were pointed out more.

That's not the risk I'd be focused on. It's that kids will bring it home to a house with 3 generations living there and someone is likely vulnerable to death if they get it.

And we can't count on those people to exercise good judgement.

#187 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 02:24 PM | Reply

Send em' back to school. Open everything up,no restrictions. Get those worthless losers off unemployment and back to WORK for their BETTERS.
Ask not what your job can do for you,ask what you can do to help your boss get richer.

The markets need more stimulus. People's lives are less than the value of overpriced equities.

Worship your betters. They know best and best is that you do your job without complaint or legal recourse if injured by the bosses need for MORE.

People don't matter unless they have property.

Money is more important than living things. Cash is eternal,Like GOD.

#188 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-07-28 02:27 PM | Reply

"We know that a child's commute to school is of far greater risk to a child than COVID"

We know that?
Citation please.

#189 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:28 PM | Reply

"It's that kids will bring it home to a house with 3 generations living there and someone is likely vulnerable to death if they get it."

Man, you really suck at being a Republican sometimes!

The guilt placed on that child for killing grandpa will be an effective coercive and corrective mechanism throughout adulthood. And if they can't overcome that, they are weak and don't deserve to succeed in life.

You have to establish dominance early. Let them know this isn't a negotiation, and this isn't a democracy.

#190 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:32 PM | Reply

-I guess that qualifier might count you out?

I have a college student, high school student and a middle school student.

#191 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 02:35 PM | Reply

"Worship your betters. They know best"

Most correct thing you've written in months, even if unintentional.

#161 | POSTED BY JOE

#192 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 02:36 PM | Reply

"I have a college student, high school student and a middle school student."

Which one makes you hate me?

#193 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:36 PM | Reply

"But... how is he supposed to homeschool the while he's also working?"

Wouldn't that be equally applicable whether the schools were closed completely or if he chose to keep his kids home?

#194 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 02:53 PM | Reply

"Does your threat based risk analysis include the teachers, administrators, and support staff, or are any losses there inconsequential?"

It does, because they can't be forced to go to school any more than a student can.

#195 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 02:54 PM | Reply

"Sounded like you were defending basing it on politics and attracting votes."

To be clear, I don't think Snoofy's argument was valid. For the reasons I listed. It would only be a smart political move if there were some counter movement to keep schools from opening, even if the parents wanted them opened.

#196 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 02:56 PM | Reply

#191 The qualifier was "anyone with a brain," which again, appears to exclude you.

Better luck next time in making things up about someone to justify your trolling.

#197 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 02:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Has anyone posted any data points on where other countries were at when they reopened schools, and how they fared?

I'll start with that commie rag, the Wall Street Journal.

Israelis Fear Schools Reopened Too Soon as Covid-19 Cases Climb
www.wsj.com

#198 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 03:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"making things up about someone"

that is the funniest thing I've read today.

But you can still top it if you try, liljoe.

#199 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 03:07 PM | Reply

"We know that? Citation please."

"For those ages 1 through 24, even a wildly out-of-control Covid-19 pandemic that exceeded the worst-case scenarios and killed 5 million Americans would appear to pose less risk than cars and trucks and boats do in a normal year."

"www.bloomberg.com"

#200 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:10 PM | Reply

What I posted in #200 provides some great metrics for those who want to gain some perspective on risk in the COVID era.

#201 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:12 PM | Reply

"What are we to make of such comparisons? Well, young people really truly do not seem to be in a lot of danger from Covid-19. It's not zero danger: A few kids are dying from the disease. But the risk they face from catching it at school appears to be much smaller than the risk they face from, say, getting to school."

#202 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:14 PM | Reply

#199 "I'm gonna keep believing this thing i made up about you because it mentally justifies my trolling despite being entirely wrong" is a great look for you.

#203 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 03:19 PM | Reply

COVID is still new enough to appear more dangerous to people than it actually is. Perception plays a large role in the decision calculus with COVID.

#177 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You really should stick to your pay grade.

#204 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 03:19 PM | Reply

the risk they face from catching it at school appears to be much smaller than the risk they face from, say, getting to school.

And this is an argument to open schools?

#205 | Posted by JOE at 2020-07-28 03:19 PM | Reply

Wouldn't that be equally applicable whether the schools were closed completely or if he chose to keep his kids home?
#194 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

So true.

So, how do you homeschool your kids while you're working, exactly?

#206 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 03:23 PM | Reply

It does, because they can't be forced to go to school any more than a student can.

#195 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

While remaining employed...

Parents deciding their little spawn are precious enough to to risk teacher's and staff's lives over are making decisions for more than themselves.

I'm also not sure how some being in person would jive with some being virtual while still maintaining American's With Disabilities Act compliance (can't legally provide unequal services to students).

#207 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 03:23 PM | Reply

It does, because they can't be forced to go to school any more than a student can.
#195 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

So if you're working, and you don't have time to homeschool your kids, and the schools are open, are your kids forced to go to school or not?

#208 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 03:25 PM | Reply

that is the funniest thing I've read today.
But you can still top it if you try, liljoe.

#199 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I see ---------- is still slinking around here saying nothing worth reading.

Must still be butthurt for being outed as a racist.

#209 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 03:25 PM | Reply

How would you homeschool your kids while you're also working your day job?
#179 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Explain how you're going to homeschool your kids while you're working, and you'll be closer to the answer.
#181 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

So, how do you homeschool your kids while you're working, exactly?
#206 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

^
MadBomber is my Homeschool Jesus.
He's denied me three times.

#210 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 04:10 PM | Reply

"Did you have goatshart plonked?

#175 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2020-07-28 02:01 PM | REPLY "

Are you really so unwise you do not understand you reinforced the point I made in my original post in this topic?

#211 | Posted by rjm53 at 2020-07-28 04:21 PM | Reply

Are you really so full of yourself that you think I a. care or b. didn't know what I was doing?

#212 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 04:23 PM | Reply

"But the risk they face from catching it at school appears to be much smaller than the risk they face from, say, getting to school"

No, it really doesn't.

Your link went to "transport accidents" which includes all kinds of transport beyond getting to and from school.

Also, the risk they face from catching it isn't really well understood.

It was even less well understood in May when that was written.

#213 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 04:33 PM | Reply

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Laid many a man's soul to waste.

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

#214 | Posted by rjm53 at 2020-07-28 04:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I mean, no?

The "nature of your game" is simply trolling the libs, nothing more.

Thanks for reading and understanding.

#215 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 04:51 PM | Reply

I wouldn't call that "game".

#216 | Posted by jpw at 2020-07-28 05:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The "nature of your game" is simply trolling the libs, nothing more.

#215 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

You're so vain
You thought post 214 was about you
You're so vain
You thought that post was about you, didn't you, didn't you?

It wasn't. Thanks for reading and understandinging.

#217 | Posted by rjm53 at 2020-07-28 05:09 PM | Reply

"But the risk they face from catching it at school appears to be much smaller than the risk they face from, say, getting to school"

To demonstrate why this is such ---------:

School bus passenger fatalities are in the single digits most years.

School bus pedestrian fatalities, many of which are presumably students, number in the teens to twenties.

Meanwhile, in Florida alone, five children have died from COVID-19. While schools are closed.

#218 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 05:09 PM | Reply

"You're so vain
You thought post 214 was about you"

Trolling libs confirmed!

Got any bbq tips?

#219 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 05:11 PM | Reply

"But the risk they face from catching it at school appears to be much smaller than the risk they face from, say, getting to school"

To further demonstrate why this is ---------:

It's like saying children die from suicide, so when something else starts killing them just as effectively, that's fine, because just as many kids die from suicide.

#220 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 05:16 PM | Reply

"And this is an argument to open schools?"

Yes.

Why wouldn't it be?

#221 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-29 12:57 AM | Reply

"So, how do you homeschool your kids while you're working, exactly?"

Whether your kids do distance learning out of choice or because they're forced to, the end result is children at home. And homeschooling is now done online. My kids basically did home schooling from Mid March until early June.

#222 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-29 12:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Homeschooling won't be provided once the schools are open. How do you do it then?

Children under a certain age can't be left unsupervised while you're at work. How will you do it then?

It's obvious you're not interested in keeping kids away from schools to fight the pandemic.

It's fine with you if families, friends, teachers, administrators, school bus drivers get sick.

The GOP is a Death Cult.

#223 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 02:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Slavery had to have been a difficult issue to deal with when the concept of the United States was being formed. However, it obviously wasn't the most pressing issue; getting Britain's knee off the neck of the American colonies was more pressing. In fact, even if they wanted to abolish slavery in the colonies, doing so would likely have required permission from Britain. Therefore, they probably thought that gaining independence from Britain was necessary if slavery in America was to be abolished.

It is tough to judge people that existed many, many years ago by the sensibilities of today. That's why it is difficult to find fault with former slave owners simply because they were slave owners. Owning slaves then was a sign of wealth and prosperity; something that many aspire to. Even today, many (most?) people aspire to achieve wealth and prosperity. It is how they go about achieving their goals that define whether they are of good or bad character.

It is the type of slave owner a person was that should subject them to ridicule and scorn. As in any human endeavor, some treated their slaves better than others. Those slave owners that were physically brutal, even today, deserve our scorn because as humans, I don't believe our sense of brutality has changed from then till now.

So, should a historic figure that was a former slave owner be lionized? No, if that slave owner was treasonous and/or brutal. Removing statues of confederate heroes is a no brainer for me; they were traitors! No country lionizes traitors.

I had a bit of a problem with people wanting to take down statues of Christopher Columbus until I learned more about his brutality regarding the American Indians. After I learned more, I was in agreement that his statues should be removed.

#224 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2020-07-29 07:54 AM | Reply

"Therefore, they probably thought that gaining independence from Britain was necessary if slavery in America was to be abolished."

The British Empire abolished slavery in 1833, our independence from Great Britain resulted in slavery being extended 32 more years and a war that cost more American lives than any other war this country has ever fought. Great Britain didn't have to fight a war to end slavery. No one in the colonies thought we needed independence to abolish slavery.

#225 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-29 10:11 AM | Reply

"It is tough to judge people that existed many, many years ago by the sensibilities of today."

No it's isn't.
Sally Hemings was a sex slave, any way you slice it.
The fact that this practice was so common that we have a word for it makes it even easier for us to judge.
en.wikipedia.org

"It is the type of slave owner a person was that should subject them to ridicule and scorn."

Thomas Jefferson was ridiculed and scored -- in his own time -- for his "arrangement" with Sally Hemings.
Why should it be different today?

If you want to think Thomas Jefferson is a great man, who also raped his slave girl, that's your choice.
Believe what you want.
Just don't like about it.

Thomas Jefferson was a great statesman who raped his slave girl.

#226 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 10:14 AM | Reply

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