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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, July 28, 2020

Paul Krugman: Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Republicans are selfish. We'd be doing much better if that were all there were to it. The point, instead, is that [Republicans have] sacralized selfishness, hurting their own political prospects by insisting on the right to act selfishly even when it hurts others. What the coronavirus has revealed is the power of America's cult of selfishness. And this cult is killing us.

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You see, the modern U.S. right is committed to the proposition that greed is good, that we're all better off when individuals engage in the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest. In their vision, unrestricted profit maximization by businesses and unregulated consumer choice is the recipe for a good society.

Rational policy in a pandemic, however, is all about taking responsibility. The main reason you shouldn't go to a bar and should wear a mask isn't self-protection, although that's part of it; the point is that congregating in noisy, crowded spaces or exhaling droplets into shared air puts others at risk. And that's the kind of thing America's right just hates, hates to hear.

Indeed, it sometimes seems as if right-wingers actually make a point of behaving irresponsibly. Anger at any suggestion of social responsibility also helps explain the looming fiscal catastrophe. But there's a deeper explanation of the profoundly self-destructive behavior of Trump and his allies: They were all members of America's cult of selfishness.

As it regards Trump's role in all of this, Living Colour summed it up quite well in their
song from 1988.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-07-27 07:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Reaction. There may be pitched battles in the street before it's over. Seems to be coming to a head.

My friend in NC says all his friends are preparing for war.

He's a rabid trumpilfool. Makes me sick to hear him go on.

OK guy overall,though.

WEIRD!

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-07-27 07:28 PM | Reply

"You see, the modern U.S. right is committed to the proposition that greed is good"

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No.......

Not all people who want to see the economy get going and hoped things would not turn out like they have are not just simply greedy.

Just like not all people who want to see the stock market sustained are not all rich.

This writer is a simpleton.

#3 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 08:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Paul Krugman I see.

Not the first time he's unimpressed me.

#4 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-07-27 08:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#3

Bill, Krugman is not saying that every person who identifies as a Republican fits the description he mentions. This is true anytime a broad stroke is spoken about. It's common sense that any descriptive leveled at a large group of people only fits those that it fits. But if you're claiming that NO ONE in the GOP fits this description, then you are both blind and dismissive of the obvious truth - including the very words of many that confirm Krugman's point.

You're intentionally conflating things that aren't joined by the criticism. The foundation of the point is clear if you read the entire story. Don't try to take snippets that exclude volumes of details as indicative that the author hasn't fully tied his point together.

#5 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-07-27 08:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Just like not all people who want to see the stock market sustained are not all rich.

You're not very smart are you. Kindly explain why anyone should care about the stock market if it isn't based on how the stock market affects their own lives even if they aren't investors.

You undermine your own point. Does anyone want to see the stock market do well while they themselves wallow in poverty and despair, watching many get enriched through the market while they suffer in their own lives?

Everyone is selfish to a point. It's called self interest, and it's not a bad thing. The article was written to illustrate that our own selfishness has kept us - as a unified nation - from effectively dealing with the coronavirus like other nations have managed to without destroying their own economies nor forcing their nations to open before the virus' spread was effectively under control.

That is the point.

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-07-27 08:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Not all people who want to see the economy get going and hoped things would not turn out like they have are not just simply greedy."

They're far worse than simply greedy.

They're lying to themselves.

They're ignoring experts.

Business owners and politicians who merely hoped things would turn out better are cavalierly endangering other people's lives, including their own workers and voters, for personal gain.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 08:54 PM | Reply

I remember when Republicans would say things like

"Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose."

Now they have the right to spread their germs inside your nose.

Only took a generation.

Right Eberly?

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-27 09:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#5 and 6

Excellent posts, tony. The problem is us.

#9 | Posted by willowby at 2020-07-27 09:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The point, instead, is that [Republicans have] sacralized selfishness, hurting their own political prospects by insisting on the right to act selfishly even when it hurts others. What the coronavirus has revealed is the power of America's cult of selfishness. And this cult is killing us."

This is what happens when Ayn Rand is your Goddess, and mo' money is your only desire.

"What young Ayn Rand saw in Hickman that would encourage her to base a novel, then her philosophy, then her life's work, on him was quite straightforward: unfeeling, unpitying selfishness.

Hickman's words as recounted by Rand in her Journals, "I am like the state: what is good for me is right," resonated deeply with her. It was the perfect articulation of her belief that if people pursued their own interests above all else"even above friends, family, or nation " the result would be utopian.

She wrote in her diary that those words of Hickman's were, "the best and strongest expression of a real man's psychology I ever heard."

www.commondreams.org

Rand would have worshiped Trump.

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-27 10:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Ayn Rand writes fantasy.

It's rape fantasy.

It's economic rape fantasy.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:50 AM | Reply

@#3 ... Not all people who want to see the economy get going and hoped things would not turn out like they have are not just simply greedy. ...

That's not what he said.

From the cited op-ed...
... greed is good, that we're all better off when individuals engage in the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest. ...

So he says that greed is the engagement in the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest.

That's not strictly limited to wanting the economy to start working again, as your comment asserts.

 

... This writer is a simpleton. ...

I'm not convinced it was the writer.

#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-07-28 09:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Christopher Hitchens said of Rands fanatics that it was quaint a group bought that Humanity for the most part wasn't greedy and selfish enough as it was.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2020-07-28 11:45 AM | Reply

13

I think the number of "Rand Fanatics" is being dramatically over estimated.

Virtually everyone I know that's a hard rightie, somewhat anti-masker, doesn't believe the severity of this pandemic, etc....NONE of them have ever read Ayn Rand.

None. And I know a ton of people like I just described.

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 11:50 AM | Reply

Usually the anti masker crowd isn't very bright. Probably not smart enough to read Rand.

#15 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-28 11:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

15

exactly.

#16 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 11:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Rational policy in a pandemic, however, is all about taking responsibility. The main reason you shouldn't go to a bar and should wear a mask isn't self-protection, although that's part of it; the point is that congregating in noisy, crowded spaces or exhaling droplets into shared air puts others at risk. And that's the kind of thing America's right just hates, hates to hear."

And this is where Krugman starts to struggle. At least to me. It appears he is saying that a responsible person wouldn't go into a bar, even if they were part of a demographic to whom the risk was insignificant.

Yet he makes no mention of those at risk who knowingly expose themselves to other people. Any of whom could pass the disease. Even if they hadn't stepped foot in a bar in years.

It would seem to me they would carry the bulk of the responsibility, being that they're the ones at risk. Instead, Krugman implies that the other 95% of the population should be held to the same inadequate restrictions as those who are at risk.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 12:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The article was written to illustrate that our own selfishness has kept us - as a unified nation - from effectively dealing with the coronavirus like other nations have managed to without destroying their own economies nor forcing their nations to open before the virus' spread was effectively under control."

How is it selfish for a willing bartender to want to sell a beer to an equally willing customer?

To me, that's not selfish at all. In fact it's selfish that some outside party would think it's within their purview to interrupt that process.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 12:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Any Rand was a hypocrite and a fraud.
Her real name was Alisa Rosenbaum.
If looks could kill; whomever she'd look at would be dead. One ugly bitch!

#19 | Posted by a_monson at 2020-07-28 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"How is it selfish for a willing bartender to want to sell a beer to an equally willing customer?"

Asymptomatic contagion during a pandemic.

#20 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-28 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Asymptomatic contagion during a pandemic."

The operative word here being "willing."

In reality, you should treat every human you come in contact with as an asymptomatic carrier. And if you care about that, avoid people.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 12:36 PM | Reply

Pig ignorance and selfishness go hand and hoof in Trumplandia.

#22 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2020-07-28 12:38 PM | Reply

#18 - The dumbest whataboutism ever written.

#23 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2020-07-28 12:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dems have been running on the "If you don't think like I do then you are a bad person" and they want to talk about other people being selfish? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

#24 | Posted by humtake at 2020-07-28 01:05 PM | Reply

"How is it selfish for a willing bartender to want to sell a beer to an equally willing customer?"

How is it not?

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:10 PM | Reply

In fact it's selfish that some outside party would think it's within their purview to interrupt that process.
#18 | POSTED BYMADBOMBER

Who is an "outside party" to the global pandemic?
???

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"In reality, you should treat every human you come in contact with as an asymptomatic carrier. And if you care about that, avoid people."

Why do you keep pretending that's possible? The needs for food and health care alone eliminate that option. Not to mention the "essential workers" who have no other choice.

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-28 01:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#18 - The dumbest whataboutism ever written."

And I would encourage you to buy a tent and head into the Jungles of Papua New Guinea? Maybe somewhere closer? Alaska? Maybe even parts of Montana or Wyoming. That would you could not only avoid people, but those who you did come in contact with would likely be just as eager to avoid people from large population centers as you would be.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Who is an "outside party" to the global pandemic?"

Someone holed up in a bunker, waiting it out.

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"In reality, you should treat every human you come in contact with as an asymptomatic carrier."

So...your solution is the infected bartender should be serving beer to the infected customer?!?

#30 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-28 01:22 PM | Reply

"Why do you keep pretending that's possible?"

How is it not possible? Millions of people lived in self-isolation before this ever happened. And if you were concerned about it, you'd buy one of these babies:

www.amazon.com

And one of these:

www.amazon.com

And if you did have to go out, you would leave a spray bottle of bleach outside your house, which you would thoroughly douse yourself with before entering your home.

And what workers other than those in the military have no choice on whether or not they go to work. In fact I've stated over and over again that the military are the only ones who could provide adequate persistent protection because they are only ones who can be forced to do it.

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Millions of people lived in self-isolation before this ever happened."

So, ongoing handouts for the hundreds of millions who didn't live in isolation until the pandemic is over?

Works for me.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:35 PM | Reply

"Who is an "outside party" to the global pandemic?"
Someone holed up in a bunker, waiting it out.
#29 | POSTED BYMADBOMBER

How are they an "outside party" when their motivation is to avoid the global pandemic?

Why are you crying, are they making you go back to America soon?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Add the cult of guns and you get this...

Three men were shot, one of them critically wounded, and a woman was hit by shrapnel at a Dallas sports bar by a suspect who had been denied entry, police said.

Dallas police told Fox News on Sunday that the suspect, who was still at large, was among three men who weren't let in to the bar on Riverfront Boulevard which was at full capacity because of coronavirus rules.

Police said he went to his car and came back with an "assault-type weapon." The bouncer, who had denied the man entry, secured the doors.

The suspect, cops said, fired into the building, causing the reported injuries.

The alleged shooter then went to the back of the bar where he was "confronted by armed patrons," and they fired upon the suspect.


www.foxnews.com

#34 | Posted by Pirate at 2020-07-28 01:37 PM | Reply

"So...your solution is the infected bartender should be serving beer to the infected customer?!?"

It's not my solution. It would be their solution.

Isn't what two consenting adults do on their own time their own business?

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Isn't what two consenting adults do on their own time their own business?
#35 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Bartender isn't on her own time.
She represents a business.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why are you crying"

You're so cute.

I sometimes feel like you want a lockdown to be mandatory so you don't feel so bad about yourself.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 01:53 PM | Reply

"And what workers other than those in the military have no choice on whether or not they go to work."

Ones who don't get housing, food, and medical care with their job.

#38 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-28 01:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I sometimes feel like you want a lockdown to be mandatory so you don't feel so bad about yourself.
#37 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

It's not me I feel bad for, but it makes sense that someone who only thinks of himself would project that onto everyone else.

It's the (checks today's number) 4,459,780 Americans with COVID-19, and the 151,675 who have died.

Your country is on fire and you're talking about how sad it is that drunks can't go to bars.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I sometimes feel like you want a lockdown to be mandatory so you don't feel so bad about yourself."

Shut-ins probably do prefer a shutdown so they don't feel so marginalized.

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2020-07-28 02:00 PM | Reply

- Virtually everyone I know that's a hard rightie, somewhat anti-masker, doesn't believe the severity of this pandemic, etc....NONE of them have ever read Ayn Rand.
None. And I know a ton of people like I just described.

#14 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Randian memes have been trickled down on them through her well-documented acolytes on the Right, folks like Paul Ryan and Clarence Thomas and many others.

It's not like they have to be very bright to buh-lieve everything these Republicans tell them.

Take Madbomber.... please!

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-28 02:38 PM | Reply

It's not fair. Paul Krugman won a Nobel Prize and Donald Trump has not been given one. Clearly the Nobel Committee is a left wing conspiracy.

#42 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-07-28 03:03 PM | Reply

"Ones who don't get housing, food, and medical care with their job."

Something like this would be carried out by the Guard and Reserve, none of who get any of what you mentioned. Unless you're referring to a cot and MREs.

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:21 PM | Reply

"Shut-ins probably do prefer a shutdown so they don't feel so marginalized."

Yup,

Standard passive-aggressive defense mechanism.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:22 PM | Reply

#41

Dude, lessbehonest.

You've read more Rand than I have.

You certainly couldn't have read less.

I do feel like you do crush on her a little bit.

She doesn't really appeal to me, but for someone who grew up listening to Glen Miller and buying victory bonds...I can see why you might like her.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:25 PM | Reply

She kinda has that roaring 20's flapper look that prolly appeals to gentlemen of your generation.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-28 03:27 PM | Reply

There's nothing unnatural about selfish behavior. Krugman is a hack. Convince the selfish that the greater good benefits them, no screeching or moralizing required.

#47 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-07-28 04:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"There's nothing unnatural about selfish behavior."

There's nothing unnatural about rape and murder either.

What a compelling argument for letting nature run its course!

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 04:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I have read plenty of Ayn Rand. Maybe when you are in High School or Junior College there is an appeal to her outlook. But anyone with any life experience and wisdom realizes the tremendous limitations to her "me first, and only me" approach. Maybe more so than any other book I have read twice in my life, I found The Fountainhead to be brilliant when I read is as a HS Senior, and I found it to be arrogant, misguided and condescending when I read it about ten years later. Rand appeals to a sophomoric type of mind.

#49 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-07-28 04:17 PM | Reply

#48 - there's the screeching, not required.

#50 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-07-28 04:22 PM | Reply

Isn't what two consenting adults do on their own time their own business?
#35 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Bartender isn't on her own time.
She represents a business.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 01:46 PM | R

EXACTLY !!.."isn't on her own time."

Just like every athlete on the job "represents a business" in a stadium !!

#51 | Posted by rhet at 2020-07-28 04:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#48 - there's the screeching, not required.
#50 | POSTED BY LIVE_OR_DIE

If I'm wrong, tell me why.
If I'm not, what exactly are you saying?

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 04:40 PM | Reply

"Krugman is a hack."

there's the screeching, not required.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-28 04:42 PM | Reply

#46, 45

When you have no argument..... just embarrass yourself, I guess.

- Rand appeals to a sophomoric type of mind.

Which then is tinkled down on frosh minds like MB's by her rwing acolytes that run his party.

#54 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-28 06:30 PM | Reply

Just to be clear, so even you understand, Rand is internationally renown as the Queen of Selfishness.

You are just the local pretender to that same title.

#55 | Posted by Corky at 2020-07-28 06:41 PM | Reply

@#24 ... Dems have been running on the "If you don't think like I do then you are a bad person" ...

Really?

That's what you're going with on this thread?

With a leader of the Republican party who asks first and foremost, "are you loyal to me" instead of asking about loyalty to the Constitution? With a leader of the Republican party who seems to be unable to tolerate anyone around him who disagrees with him?

Methinks you are projecting.

#56 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-07-28 07:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"How is it selfish for a willing bartender to want to sell a beer to an equally willing customer?"

Other nations shut down and replaced the income of the furloughed workers with 80% of their wages....the US gave billionaires millions and millions in tax cuts and aid and the average person a one time check for $1200.

That is selfishness from the oligarchy.

The oligarchy failed to invest in a safety net to keep people safe during a pandemic so we see miles long food lines and months on hold to file for unemployment at the same time they rammed through a trillion dollar tax scam.

Selfishness.

Wear masks and stay home are too hard for people to do. They instead need to go out to drink, bowl and get haircuts while simultaneously refusing to wear a simple piece of ------- cloth over their mouth and nose to keep from spreading the disease.

Selfishness.

Next up...a 70% cut in unemployment and another one time check for $1200 along with $2 bil for an office building that will line the pockets of Demntia Don, extra billions for the pentagon that will line the pockets of the 1% along with more tax cuts for the top 1%.

Selfishness.

#57 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-07-29 08:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

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