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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, July 29, 2020

Billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates told CNBC it's important for young students to return to school for in-person learning, despite the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. "I'm a big believer that for young children, the benefits in almost every location " particularly if you can protect the teachers well " the benefits outweigh the costs," Gates said. However, the Microsoft co-founder said the back-to-school decision is more complicated for older students.

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My kids are out of college but I am conflicted by this. I agree that for the very young being in school is of paramount importance, but where do you draw the line? Gates says it should be drawn at the High School level but I think that middle school kids are more than capable of on-line learning, which would open more space in schools for the younger students.

#1 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-07-29 03:06 PM | Reply

"Microsoft told employees to work from home. One consequence was brutal"

www.zdnet.com

#2 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-29 03:20 PM | Reply

Nearly 300 Florida high school graduates told to quarantine after attending an outdoor graduation www.cnn.com

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 03:37 PM | Reply

This isn't surprising. When I lived in Seattle, Bill Gates was adamantly opposed to Microsoft employees working from home.

So for work I left my home in Seattle, went twenty miles to the Microsoft office in Issaquah, to manage servers twenty miles away in Tukwila.

Apparently that made sense.

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 03:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"When I lived in Seattle, Bill Gates was adamantly opposed to Microsoft employees working from home."

That's his ideology talking. What works best for him personally he extrapolates out to everyone. Since he's so rich people assume there's some wisdom in his every utterance.

#5 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-07-29 03:57 PM | Reply

#5 That's pretty much how I looked at it.

If I were driving to work in a Ferrari, I might not find commuting such a bore.
If my home were a palace, I might not want to get much work done there.

Microsoft is a big "meetings" culture. So much so that "No meeting Wednesdays" was the rule for everyone in IT. So at least one day, you could spent eight hours working on whatever it is you're supposed to be doing, instead of being in meetings half the day.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 03:59 PM | Reply

A Ferrari would make for a poor daily driving car.

#7 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2020-07-29 04:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"A Ferrari would make for a poor daily driving car."

Okay then you can have a bus pass.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 04:38 PM | Reply

An educational video:
You Don't Want to Drive a Ferrari Every Day
m.youtube.com

#9 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2020-07-29 04:43 PM | Reply

#8

That stupid dork doesn't even live in Monaco, what does he know?

Dumb video

#10 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-07-29 05:48 PM | Reply

#9 actually

#11 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-07-29 05:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Gates is Rich and intelligent. This doesn't mean he's God.

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2020-07-29 06:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah the benefit of killing gramps is better than missing a couple grades you won't remember.

#13 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-07-29 08:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Teams sucks.
There's only one product that Microsoft ever came up with that was decent and that was Excel.

#14 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-29 08:16 PM | Reply

Snoofy was Bill Gates one of the people that thought open offices were a good idea. They really suck. Some bosses hate employees working from home because they can't micromanage them.

#15 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-29 08:23 PM | Reply

"640K COVID-19 deaths should be enough for anyone."

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 08:23 PM | Reply

"Snoofy was Bill Gates one of the people that thought open offices were a good idea. They really suck. Some bosses hate employees working from home because they can't micromanage them."

These are two different things.

Open office just means the cubicle walls are lower and don't offer any privacy, so you have to look at all the other poor schleps all day long.

On the other hand, "not being able to micromanage" is a good thing.

I have worked out of the home. It's not great. There's no water cooler to talk about last night's show or game. You have to make your own coffee. Parking is free though.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-07-29 08:28 PM | Reply

"Teams sucks.
There's only one product that Microsoft ever came up with that was decent and that was Excel."

Plots in excel are hot garbage. the rest is ok.

A big no from me for sending my 5 YO into school.

#18 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-07-29 08:28 PM | Reply

I love working from home. Well mainly because I goldbrick at least half the day away. Yes I know what an open office is. I despise them. I need silence to work. In an open office you hear everything. I don't like wearing headphones all day either. I would love it if my office was moved to the basement in a dark corner so none of my coworkers would ever bother me again.

#19 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-07-29 08:33 PM | Reply

#18 - agreed. Years ago plotting was intuitive, but they've made a mess out of it.

#20 | Posted by YAV at 2020-07-29 09:01 PM | Reply

Okay then you can have a bus pass.

#8 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I'll take a Lexus please. Like driving in a pillow.

Or better yet a Tesla with autopilot so I could nap.

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-29 10:44 PM | Reply

Love/hate Teams.
The potential for greatness is there, but I'm currently in too many Teams making it a hellscape of being way too available
around the clock, around the world...
Lol

#22 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2020-07-29 11:33 PM | Reply

Yea! Come home and kill mommy and daddy!

#23 | Posted by fresno500 at 2020-07-29 11:50 PM | Reply

#12 Gates has paid to eradicate diseases for the benefit of humanity.
God?

#24 | Posted by bored at 2020-07-30 02:15 AM | Reply

Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation does lots of good in this world and I do respect him for that but he has no business telling others to send there kids back to school. The recommendations I read are that kids should not go back to school until the positive virus testing falls below 5% in the area where you live. I suspect even that recommendation is b.s. At that level you would have at least one kid testing positive in every third classroom so the virus could spread very rapidly. It is not worth it to jeopardize your child's life, or the teacher's life, or the parent's lives just to please Orange Hitler. When he finally does something to combat the virus let me know, meanwhile nothing he says matters.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2020-07-30 08:32 AM | Reply

I'll take a Lexus please. Like driving in a pillow.
Or better yet a Tesla with autopilot so I could nap.

#21 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2020-07-29 10:44 PM | FLAG:

If you're shopping in the Ferrari price range it's a Taycan if you go EV. Otherwise the Lexus UX300e will be out in the states next year. Battery car, Lexus quality and features. So, so nice.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-07-30 09:40 AM | Reply

Not that people are really driving anymore. I'm down to filling up the gas tank about every 2 months.

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-07-30 09:41 AM | Reply

Not that people are really driving anymore. I'm down to filling up the gas tank about every 2 months.

#27 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2020-07-30 09:41 AM | FLAG:

Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? Starting to think maybe I only need half a tank. My commute has been reduced from 18 miles to 14 steps.

#28 | Posted by cbob at 2020-07-30 11:33 AM | Reply

Otherwise the Lexus UX300e will be out in the states next year. Battery car, Lexus quality and features. So, so nice.

#26 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Ok fine.

I will take the Lexus UX300e

If I have to.

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-30 12:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"particularly if you can protect the teachers well"

Therein lies the rub.

How do you protect the protectors?

Teachers, bus drivers, parents, grand parents, etc. etc.

Of course all children young and old should be in school.

But only if it's safe. Only if we follow the science. And do the math.

And young children die from the Rona too.

Sorry.

Nothing is gonna work, no one is going to be able to stay open safely until we get easy access to instant testing and everyone starts acting responsibly.

Maybe after November. January 21st for sure.
Denial of science is not a policy that will work in a pandemic.

#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-30 01:30 PM | Reply

Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? Starting to think maybe I only need half a tank. My commute has been reduced from 18 miles to 14 steps.
#28 | POSTED BY CBOB AT 2020-07-30 11:33 AM

My fiance and I are consolidating down to one car. I work from home, she still commutes. All I need is some transportation on the weekends for errands and golf. I'm putting my foot down though. If I'm footing the bill (mostly) for a new car, she's going to learn how to operate a manual transmission. I'll be damned if I finally make a shift to automatic because of something like COVID.

#31 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-07-30 01:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"particularly if you can protect the teachers well"
Therein lies the rub.
How do you protect the protectors?
Teachers, bus drivers, parents, grand parents, etc. etc.
Of course all children young and old should be in school.
But only if it's safe. Only if we follow the science. And do the math.
And young children die from the Rona too.
Sorry.
Nothing is gonna work, no one is going to be able to stay open safely until we get easy access to instant testing and everyone starts acting responsibly.
Maybe after November. January 21st for sure.
Denial of science is not a policy that will work in a pandemic.
#30 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Thank you for this. It seems to me that school teachers and staff are being lost in this mix. So much so, teachers' unions are threatening to strike already. California played it correctly, IMO. We'll open the Fall semester virtually with the hopes of going back to school sometime in the mid to late semester. Keep in mind that 25% of California teachers are aged 55+. Regardless, I believe we'll be seeing a rash of retirements should there not be a need for pink slips.

And expect the second little Johnny or Suzy has a runny nose, they'll be quarantined for a week on distance learning anyways. Guess what, Johnny and Suzy ALWAYS have runny noses. This just isn't currently practical. It's really that simple.

#32 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-07-30 01:58 PM | Reply

*two weeks

#33 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-07-30 01:59 PM | Reply

I'll be damned if I finally make a shift to automatic because of something like COVID.

#31 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2020-07-30 01:55 PM | FLAG:

Everybody has a breaking point, a hill they're willing to die on.

I drove nothing but manuals for most of my life, but finally gave in two years ago with a wife and two daughters who refuse to learn how to use a clutch.

#34 | Posted by cbob at 2020-07-30 05:10 PM | Reply

"But only if it's safe. Only if we follow the science. And do the math."

You should do the math

And if you do the math, a student is more likely to die on the way to school than they are from contracting COVID. Less than one in 750,000 from COVID, compared to 1/50,000 for a traffic accident.

It's not until you hit age 45 that the risk from COVID gets anywhere near the risk of dying in a traffic accident, which is just under 1/100,000

I don't think you're using math. I think you're succumbing to a fear of something you don't understand, even if it is less threatening that something you do understand. My guess would be that you don't get anxious when you think about driving somewhere.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 03:58 AM | Reply

"Teachers, bus drivers, parents, grand parents, etc. etc."

In Missouri, they're floating the idea of using National Guard members to drive buses and teach classes.

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 03:59 AM | Reply

" And if you do the math, a student is more likely to die on the way to school than they are from contracting COVID. Less than one in 750,000 from COVID, compared to 1/50,000 for a traffic accident.

How do you figure that?

I get: 480,000 busses; 72 kids/bus. That's 34.5MM students per day. Divided by 50K would be over 600 traffic deaths per day. Even if busses were half-full, that's still 300 deaths per day. Where is that happening?

Also, you have no idea what the death rate will be when kids are jammed into a room, something not happening now. So both numbers could be way off.

As my physics teacher used to say, "show your math".

#37 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-31 04:23 AM | Reply

"How do you figure that?"

I didn't. Bloomberg did.

As my physics teacher used to say, "show your math".

Maybe this will scratch your itch?

www.bloomberg.com

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 04:29 AM | Reply

"Also, you have no idea what the death rate will be when kids are jammed into a room, something not happening now. So both numbers could be way off."

They could be.

"Could" being the operative word. But if you're using the data and modeling currently available, you would keep your kids home out of fear of a traffic accident rather than fear of COVID.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 04:31 AM | Reply

"if you're using the data and modeling currently available,"

We're not; the Bloomberg article was from early May; almost no models existed for schools.

Also, the Bloomberg article employs an odd pair of aspects: one, it states kids aren't a good reason not to open schools...but then it skips the adults in the equation entirely, and two, it seems to assume kids somehow can't/won't spread the disease back home via asymptomatic contagion.

It also completely ignores the side illnesses kids have acquired, and doesn't spend a keystroke on possible long-term effects on children. We now know CV attacks the lungs, heart, and ---------; to what extent is a total mystery, especially regarding residual effects.

Finally, the numbers you're citing count ALL transportation miles; meanwhile, "The federal government considers school buses to be about 9 times safer than other passenger vehicles during the normal school commute."
www.northamericacentral.com

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-31 04:59 AM | Reply

Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? Starting to think maybe I only need half a tank. My commute has been reduced from 18 miles to 14 steps.

#28 | POSTED BY CBOB AT 2020-07-30 11:33 AM | FLAG:

Boring mostly. My commute has been about 60 feet for 11 years now... but no beer club, no flying club, no sailing club, instacart only groceries, no road trips, no inside dining, no movies, etc, since mid March. The bright side is my 501c customers are re-configuring their guest experiences so at least I've got plenty of work to grind away on.

#41 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-07-31 08:48 AM | Reply

In Missouri, they're floating the idea of using National Guard members to drive buses and teach classes.

#36 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2020-07-31 03:59 AM | FLAG:

In Harris County they're saying buy a laptop for your kid and get ready for at home learning with the promise it won't be the like the ---- show at the end of last year where nobody no matter public, private, or charter knew what to do.

#42 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-07-31 08:50 AM | Reply

"We now know CV attacks the lungs, heart, and ---------"

CensorBot is working overtime. Lungs, heart, and ---------.

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-31 10:32 AM | Reply

#40

Do you have an updated study showing that the data presented by Bloomberg is no longer valid?

As my calc teacher used to say, "show your math." Even when using the derivative method was much easier.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 12:41 PM | Reply

"Do you have an updated study showing that the data presented by Bloomberg is no longer valid?"

Are you going to pretend we haven't learned anything since the first week of March?

And are you going to admit your claim was way off, once you account for school bus drivers being 9 times more safe than regular commuters?

#45 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-31 12:45 PM | Reply

"Finally, the numbers you're citing count ALL transportation miles; meanwhile, "The federal government considers school buses to be about 9 times safer than other passenger vehicles during the normal school commute."

Is that good news, bad news, or does it even matter?

It's still doesn't change the fact that the risk to children is nearly insignificant.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 12:49 PM | Reply

"Is that good news, bad news, or does it even matter?"

Of course it matters: 1/50000 becomes 1/500000, since "9 times more safe" equals "ten times as safe". The fact you asked that question seems to suggest you don't understand the math you're touting.

"It's still doesn't change the fact that the risk to children is nearly insignificant."

More to the point, it doesn't change facts regarding asymptomatic contagion. And you're purposely ignoring residual effects and side diseases:
www.webmd.com

#47 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-31 12:58 PM | Reply

So 1/500,000 still represents a greater risk than 1/750,000. Which means that travel is still more dangerous than COVID. And that being the case, you should be arguing that kids shouldn't be allowed to go to school, not because of COVID, but because they might get hurt on the way there.

So let's agree to disagree.

I work in an environment where risk is always present, and people occasionally die. It's something you deal with, or find a different line of work. Because of that, I have a hard time understanding people who chase the "zero risk" endgame. That's something that myself and my people have come to realize in the COVID era. We're not like most people.

I think you're a smart dude. I'd love to hear your opinions on why KODK went crazy two days ago. But I don't think we'll ever be able to come to any sort of consensus when it comes to risk.

#48 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-07-31 01:39 PM | Reply

"So 1/500,000 still represents a greater risk than 1/750,000. "

Yeah, but suddenly the comparison has gone from 1-15 to 1-1.5.

"So let's agree to disagree."

Let's also agree your claim was off by 90%.

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-07-31 01:44 PM | Reply

I hope that Bill Gates contracts Covid-19 from a kindergartner and then suffers long-term respiratory and heart issues,

Such ignorance.

#50 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-07-31 04:36 PM | Reply

Study finds higher viral load in young children, raising questions about how likely they are to transmit the coronavirus

"We had just noticed that some of the children that we were testing for SARS CoV-2 that were positive, the youngest children seemed to have a high amount of the viral nucleic acid -- a high viral load in their nose -- compared to some of our older children and adults," lead author Dr. Taylor Heald-Sargent, a pediatric infectious diseases specialist at Lurie Children's Hospital of Chicago, told CNN. "And so when we ... actually ran the numbers, controlled for a few things, we found that there was actually a statistically significant higher amount of the genes that are encoded by SARS, which usually correlates to more virus, in the nose of children less than five years old, compared to older children and adults." ...

They found that those under 5 had a statistically significant greater amount of virus particles in the nose correlating to "a 10-fold to 100-fold greater amount of the coronavirus in the upper respiratory tract ... " the researchers wrote in their paper.
Heald-Sargent says more studies need to look at transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 in children. "So far this transmission doesn't seem to be primarily coming from children," said Heald-Sargent.

But her team noted in the paper that because of the stay-at-home measures implemented in mid-March, many young children had fewer opportunities to transmit.


www.cnn.com

Hey Bill Gates, you can go ---- yourself on this one, bud.

#51 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-07-31 04:42 PM | Reply

Hey MAD -

Thoughts on the study in #51?

#52 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-07-31 04:45 PM | Reply

nobody no matter public, private, or charter knew what to do.

#42 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

That's not true. I think it depends on how many resources were available to each location at the time.

I was in an engineering class at HSU. The professor managed to finish the class well. It wasn't perfect but he did pretty damn good. And most of us already had laptops. It was a graduate level class. He did a great job getting zoom up and running and adapting his assignments.

It was harder. But we did fine. And yes, of course, I expect them to do better for that type of class once they have had some practice. But some classes are still problematic. I have no idea how we are gonna do my oceanography class yet. Some of it is supposed to be on a research vessel in Humboldt Bay or out in the Pacific. We'll see what they come up with.

Having consistent leadership and guidance from a trusted authority figure or agency of the federal government, the cdc and the dept of education would certainly help in setting consistent and reasonably safe standards. And funding. Schools need funding to make the classrooms or teaching areas safer. Meeting the cdc guidelines cost money.

But we seem to forget. It's a pandemic. Things will not be "normal" until we get it under control. And if you think it's under control then you are a fool.

#53 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-07-31 06:07 PM | Reply

"Let's also agree your claim was off by 90%."

You give me too much credit. It was never my claim. It was Bloomberg's claim.

And your assertion presupposes that all children ride the bus, which is nine times safer than getting to school by other means. So let's agree that your claim was more BS than not.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-01 11:06 AM | Reply

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