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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, August 06, 2020

Bells have tolled in Hiroshima, Japan, to mark the 75th anniversary of the dropping of the world's first atomic bomb. But memorial events were scaled back this year because of the pandemic. On 6 August 1945, a US bomber dropped the uranium bomb above the city, killing around 140,000 people.

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Back in the day I used to party with some of Paul Tibbets's boys.

One of my friends sussed out who they were, just from the last name.

The story I'll never forget is how their mom got a ---- job, paid for by Uncle Sam, because it's just not right for such a decorated war veteran's wife to not have the missile ---- which were in fashion at the time.

RIP Hiroshima.

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-06 03:34 AM | Reply

Back in the day I used to party with some of Paul Tibbets's boys.

#1 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-06 03:34 AM | FLAG:

Holy ---- how old are you? When I met Tibbets he was 90.

#2 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-06 10:11 AM | Reply

A crime against humanity.

#3 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-08-06 10:15 AM | Reply

A crime against humanity.

#3 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2020-08-06 10:15 AM | FLAG:

Beats invading mainland Japan.

#4 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-06 10:33 AM | Reply

That's the excuse we were given to justify the unjustifiable. It's the story of our country's life.

#5 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-08-06 10:50 AM | Reply

'He felt he had to do it': Democrat Truman's grandson on bombing Hiroshima
David Smith in Washington

The Guardian logo'He felt he had to do it': Truman's grandson on bombing Hiroshima
To many Americans, he was the commander-in-chief who had the mettle to end the second world war quickly and save countless lives. To many in Japan and elsewhere, he was the perpetrator of a war crime that pushed the world into a perilous new age.

#6 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-08-06 01:06 PM | Reply

"A crime against humanity."

If you don't want the rath of the United States to come to visit then don't surprise attack the United States. I am fully aware of the arguments against our attacks with nuclear weapons but we did warn them, they were obviously losing the war at that point, all we wanted was that the Japanes wouldn't need us to invade and lose thousands of troops in a war that the Japanese were doomed to lose anyway. No, sorry, I think we did the right thing and we probably prevented the USSR from invading Europe at the same time. Those bombs stopped the Japanese but they were really intended to warn the Russians of what they could expect if they tried to occupy Europe. They would have if they thought they could have. That nation has been angry with us ever since. Putin is still pissed. They can't get over the fact that we basically defeated them on the same day we defeated Japan.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2020-08-06 01:39 PM | Reply

We were fire bombing their cities so thoroughly with low altitude, night time B-29 raids the nuclear weapons weren't seen as a significant escalation by many at the time.

The last Japanese soldier didn't surrender until the 1974.

#8 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-06 02:02 PM | Reply

"I think we did the right thing"

We did the "right thing" because we won.

Not because it was the"right thing" to do. It was the thing that needed to be done. Were there alternatives? Of course there were. But this is the course we chose. And as you pointed out there were other considerations.

But in a World War none of the choices are ever great.

But if you win then they were justified. By the winner. That does not make them right. Imagine now if we had lost. Oh wait, you don't have to. There are plenty of sci fi stories that tell you what might have happened. One of my favorite is the Man in the High Castle.

#9 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-06 02:03 PM | Reply

For Danni

www.thenation.com

PS Japan targeted a military instilation. We targeted a civilian city. Not even remotely equal.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-08-06 02:04 PM | Reply

For Danni

www.thenation.com

PS Japan targeted a military instilation. We targeted a civilian city. Not even remotely equal.

#11 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-08-06 02:04 PM | Reply

Bet Japan wishes they surrendered sooner.

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2020-08-06 02:05 PM | Reply

Bet Japan wishes they surrendered sooner.

#12 | POSTED BY TOR

I bet they wished Einstein was Japanese.

#13 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-06 02:09 PM | Reply

We targeted a civilian city

#10 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2020-08-06 02:04 PM | FLAG:

We targeted "War Production", which is what Hiroshima was, a military production center of cottage industries. Those cottages just happened to be made of wood.

#14 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-06 02:10 PM | Reply

I bet they wished Einstein was Japanese.

#13 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2020-08-06 02:09 PM | FLAG:

Might have gotten past their lab efforts.

Their modern nuclear industry, the bits not flooded, can turn out nuclear weapons though.

#15 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-06 02:11 PM | Reply

I visited Peace Park years ago. Eerie experience.

There are shadows burned into concrete of people who were vaporized at Ground Zero.

#16 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-08-06 02:11 PM | Reply

"I bet they wished Einstein was Japanese."

That's one of the problems with killing vast swaths of people for trivial reasons.

They aren't all dumb and this is an era of invention.

#17 | Posted by Tor at 2020-08-06 02:13 PM | Reply

Colleague of mine in a history department theorized: If HST had the Bomb, didn't use it, the US invaded Japan and took massive casualties and word got out HST had the Bomb, the prez would've been impeached. As a PS, talked to a fellow who soon after the surrender inspected the spot where his outfit would've come ashore. He was not optimistic about his outfit's chances.

#18 | Posted by Doc_sarvis at 2020-08-06 02:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"We targeted a civilian city"

All cities are civilian cities.
There's no other kind.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-06 02:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The last Japanese soldier didn't surrender until the 1974.
#8 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

The Confederacy still has thousands and thousands of armed militiamen in 2020.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-06 02:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

"If HST had the Bomb, didn't use it, the US invaded Japan and took massive casualties and word got out HST had the Bomb, the prez would've been impeached."

Truman was facing hundreds of thousands of American deaths, especially after learning the lessons of Iwo Jima. Japan was willing to sacrifice MANY more than died in the two bombs. They would've starved their entire population if that's what it came to.

#21 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-08-06 02:47 PM | Reply

Laura, look at what Japan did in China then get back to me. The Japanese deserved what they got from us, the Chinese did not deserve what they got from Japan.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2020-08-06 03:03 PM | Reply

No they actually didn't Danni. Sorry facts state otherise.

#23 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-08-06 03:05 PM | Reply

Definitely not "facts". You just have a contrarian opinion on a historical event.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-06 03:07 PM | Reply

"Sorry facts state otherise."

Nice try, KellyAnne.
www.scribd.com

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-08-06 03:08 PM | Reply

We targeted a civilian city.

Dresden calling for you on line one.

Tokyo is holding on two.

#26 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-06 03:15 PM | Reply

#26

What, no London Calling?

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-08-06 03:17 PM | Reply

Laura, look at what the US did in the Middle East then get back to me. New York City deserved what they got from OBL, the people in the Middle East did not deserve what they got from the US.
#22 | POSTED BY BIZARRO DANNI

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-06 03:17 PM | Reply

When any nation decides to declare war on the United State then tough for them....we will do whatever we have to do to defeat them. You don't want the pain then don't attack the United States.

And Snoofy, I totally agree with you about the Middle East. OBL did not represent the middle east and especially not Iraq. Saudi Arabia....probably I might have gone along with an attack but Iraq....totally nonsense that cost 1,000,000 Iraqis their lives.

But, that said, in a World War started by Germany, Russia, Italy and Japan with us as their enemy, all bets were off and they don't get to complain about what we did to win. The important thing was that we had to win for the benefit of humanity all over the world. Later on we allowed evil people to gain power in our country but during WWII that just was not really the case, we were fighting for our lives and, sorry, we won.

#29 | Posted by danni at 2020-08-06 03:24 PM | Reply

"An indication of the ferocity of Tokyo's determination to annihilate the Kuomintang government is reflected in the major atrocity committed by the Japanese army in and around Nanjing during a six-week period in December 1937 and January 1938. Known in history as the Nanjing Massacre, wanton rape, looting, arson, and mass executions took place, so that in one horrific day, some 57,418 Chinese prisoners of war and civilians reportedly were killed. Japanese sources admit to a total of 142,000 deaths during the Nanjing Massacre, but Chinese sources report upward of 340,000 deaths and 20,000 women raped. Japan expanded its war effort in the Pacific, Southeast, and South Asia, and by 1941 the United States had entered the war. With Allied assistance, Chinese military forces---both Kuomintang and CCP---defeated Japan."

factsanddetails.com

#30 | Posted by danni at 2020-08-06 03:36 PM | Reply

mind-exchange.com

#31 | Posted by willowby at 2020-08-06 04:35 PM | Reply

"That's one of the problems with killing vast swaths of people for trivial reasons."

What an offense to humanity. The reason wasn't trivial for the bombs but not sure you were speaking just about that. The bombs were done to prevent more killings. And they weren't civilian targets, Japan did their best to make those two cities and a few other seem like military installations in order to draw opponents to specific areas where they had a lot of resources to defend. They just didn't account for a bomb that can kill that many. So America was under the assumption they were military locations, and very important ones, because Japan used them as a strategic military operation. Thus, the bombs killed way more than they should have.

Problem is, I can find facts that support that and other documents that don't even mention it. So anyone who says "the facts don't agree" is only reading one or two articles and then spouting knowledge.

Anyways, everyone knows South Park cracked the case and that the bombs were dropped by whale and dolphins.

#32 | Posted by humtake at 2020-08-07 12:58 PM | Reply

Wow. A lot of thoughtful and insightful comments on this page.

#33 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-07 05:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Beats invading mainland Japan.

That's the typical argument, but I question the need for that. Japan was finished as a naval and air power by then. Why invade?

Just blockade the islands and let them implode.

#34 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-08-07 05:26 PM | Reply

Just because Japan didn't have a fully functional Navy or Airforce at the moment didn't mean they couldn't build one.

Don't forget how fast they became a industrialized Nation.

#35 | Posted by Tor at 2020-08-07 05:45 PM | Reply

That would've taken a lot longer than you think. Japan would've cannibalized each other before surrendering.

#36 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-08-07 05:46 PM | Reply

#36 was a response to #34.

#37 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-08-07 05:54 PM | Reply

Just because Japan didn't have a fully functional Navy or Air force at the moment didn't mean they couldn't build one.

It would have been hard being bombed all the time and having little in the way of resources.

That would've taken a lot longer than you think.

What difference would it make how long it took?

I mean I get it, the world was tired of the war and wanted it over, and Russia needed a warning.

I just don't think the only alternative to the A-bombs was to invade the Japanese home islands.

#38 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-08-07 11:24 PM | Reply

"What difference would it make how long it took?"

The scenario you're describing is one where we did Japan a favor by forcing their surrender instead of letting their civilization collapse in on itself.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-07 11:27 PM | Reply

Also, a big reason if not the biggest reason to drop the bomb was to demonstrate our power to the Soviet.
We basically started the space race and the Cold War on August 6, 1945.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-07 11:28 PM | Reply

"What difference would it make how long it took?"

Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers' lives. Enough for you?

#41 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-08-07 11:42 PM | Reply

Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers' lives. Enough for you?

I'm not sure I see your point. Where would those causalities have come from?

#42 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-08-07 11:45 PM | Reply

At the rate we were firebombing Japan from Tinian, hundreds of thousands if not millions more Japanese would have died from those had we not dropped Little Boy (nuclear) and Fat Man (plutonium), resulting in surrender.

And the reason we didn't drop them days apart was becasue we wanted Japan to think we had more, which we didn't have.

#43 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-08-08 01:52 AM | Reply

#42

75,000 casualties taking Okinawa. Peanuts compared to invading the mainland. If I was in theater in the military, the bombs were a godsend.

#44 | Posted by willowby at 2020-08-08 01:55 AM | Reply

#43

At that point, I wouldn't have wasted the fissile material on the Trinity test.

#45 | Posted by willowby at 2020-08-08 02:00 AM | Reply

#45 well it was just a theory,imagine the embarrasment. And Trinity glass at the gift shop gas almost paid for it

#46 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-08 02:11 AM | Reply

At the rate we were firebombing Japan from Tinian, hundreds of thousands if not millions more Japanese would have died...

Could just as easy have stopped firebombing them.

75,000 casualties taking Okinawa. Peanuts compared to invading the mainland.

Once again, my point is there was no desperate need to invade the Japanese mainland.

#47 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-08-08 02:18 AM | Reply

#47 Redial, it was time to wrap it up.
The problem with Americans is they think they won all the wars by themselves, but as far as Nippon goes they did take the extra effort. You know they just wanted to be left alone before the US forced them to open up, but who cares about that.
US history : the pool was nice today.

MUllatos good, black folk bad

#48 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-08 02:43 AM | Reply

#47 Redial, it was time to wrap it up.

Much like I said in #38.

#49 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-08-08 03:02 AM | Reply

Yes ,exactly.

#50 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-08 03:06 AM | Reply

And the reason we dropped them days apart was becasue we wanted Japan to think we had more, which we didn't have.

#43 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Interesting factoid:

Little Boy and Fat Man were completely different designs. When two teams proposed different possible paths to nuclear detonation, Oppenheimer decided to build both designs in case one didn't work; Little Boy's gun-type detonator that shot the fissile material together in a barrel from about 30" away, and Fat Boy's 60" cylindrical detonation sphere aimed at it's 3.62" plutonium core - Only Fat Man was tested was tested at Trinity. Little Boy never was, but they found out over Hiroshima it worked.

#51 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-08-08 04:08 AM | Reply

I once had the opportunity to meet Dr. Leon Smith, who had been part of the Manhattan project. he spoke at an event I was at. He had designed the fuses used in the nuclear weapons.

Years later, he went to Japan for something related to the war, and the press asked him if he had an regrets about his role in the bombings. He stated that he didn't. He felt that nuclear weapons saved Japan. Had the bombs not been dropped, it is likely that Japanese culture would have been eradicated, as the Japanese had been instructed to fight down to the last man, woman, and child. Not to mention the millions of allied deaths that would have occurred.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-08 04:32 AM | Reply

What did you expect him to say? It is what it is?

#53 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-08 05:22 AM | Reply

"What did you expect him to say? It is what it is?"

Objectively, He was correct. But many people involved in the nuclear program later expressed regret.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-08 05:25 AM | Reply

Objectively he was correct . Yes it was a tough call. My personal feeling is it was a shout out to uncle Joe. But it was done and is history now. And we set a precedent.

#55 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-08 05:49 AM | Reply

"My personal feeling is it was a shout out to uncle Joe."

I don't think so. That may have been a valuable collateral effect, but not the objective. Allied casualties were expected to reach the half a million mark. Downfall was also expected to produce 5-10 million Japanese casualties as well. The population at the time was 72 million.

The other thing-WWII was funded by the sale of war bonds. Had the war progressed too slowly or the casualties became too high, it's not outside the realm of possibility that the US would have run out of money.

#56 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-08 07:23 AM | Reply

Another fun fact, in 1945 the US ordered 500k Purple Heart medals in anticipation of the invasion. If you were to be awarded one of those tomorrow, it would come out of that stock ordered in 1945.

#57 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-08 07:24 AM | Reply

Could just as easy have stopped firebombing them.
75,000 casualties taking Okinawa. Peanuts compared to invading the mainland.
Once again, my point is there was no desperate need to invade the Japanese mainland.

#47 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2020-08-08 02:18 AM | FLAG:

"Approximately 2,800 Kamikaze attackers sank 34 Navy ships, damaged 368 others, killed 4,900 sailors, and wounded over 4,800. Despite radar detection and cuing, airborne interception, attrition, and massive anti-aircraft barrages, 14 percent of Kamikazes survived to score a hit on a ship; nearly 8.5 percent of all ships hit by Kamikazes sank."

If you stop bombing them you will get met with continual kamikaze swarms in light aircraft, midget submarines, ohka human guided rocket propelled bombs, etc. The pictures of what they had tucked away for this are stunning.

#58 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-08 10:36 AM | Reply

Redial's military plan: Cease bombardment and do not invade an island nation. Starve them out. A society that was self-sufficient without trade for centuries.

#59 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-08-08 10:39 AM | Reply

"If you stop bombing them you will get met with continual kamikaze swarms in light aircraft"

They wouldn't get far without gas.

I think the answer to "why'd we have to do it" is, it was done to put an end to the war. Hoping for Japan to self-implode might just give birth to another North Korea. We chose to conquer them rather than see what other options the future had in store.

Military conquest is the devil we know, as symbolized by all fifty stars and thirteen stripes on our flag.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-08 01:26 PM | Reply

"They wouldn't get far without gas."

I wonder how many know it was our oil embargo of Japan that resulted in Pearl Harbor?

#61 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-08-08 02:04 PM | Reply

Japan was out of control with violence that's why we placed an embargo on them.

#62 | Posted by Tor at 2020-08-08 02:58 PM | Reply

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