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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, August 28, 2020

Anthony Huber was armed with nothing but his skateboard when he spotted an armed person among a crowded street in Kenosha, Wisconsin, but he still ran toward the danger, his girlfriend says.

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1) Kenosha police shoot Jacob Blake in the back.

2) Kyle Rittenhouse shoots Joseph Rosenbaum in the back.

MAGAt see, MAGAt do.

#1 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-28 01:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not trying to pick a fight here, but there were elements of self-defense in Rittenhouse killing of those people. I've watched the video several times. They were definitely chasing him down. Now why the f+++ Rittenhouse would bring a rifle to a protest in the first place, is a separate issue. Most of us find that to be provocative. That being said, bringing a firearm to a protest is not grounds for a mob to chase you down and attack you.

#2 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 01:14 PM | Reply

Shooting someone is. The little ----- was popping off rounds.

#3 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-28 01:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

there were elements of self-defense in Rittenhouse killing of those people.

Rittenhouse lives in Illinois.

He should have stayed there.

Instead.

He took his gun and went looking for a fight.

In Wisconsin.

He ended up murdering two people.

You want to bring up "self defense"?

Kyle murdered the first guy out of fear. The second guy responded to Rittenhouse murdering the first guy and was subsequently murdered.

Poor Kyle. Your heart breaks for him.

#4 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 01:19 PM | Reply

It was an attempted citizen arrest of an active shooter.

#5 | Posted by bored at 2020-08-28 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Seeing their faces makes their deaths so much sadder to me. The police who allowed this to happen deserve to be held responsible for their unwillingness to enforce the law.

#6 | Posted by danni at 2020-08-28 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I have not seen any video of Rittenhouse "popping off rounds" prior to being chased. I do see a lot of angry and aggressive people confronting him prior to chasing him. Sorry.

#7 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 01:42 PM | Reply

@#2 ... They were definitely chasing him down ...

Were they chasing him before or after he fired the shots.

Your comment doesn't specify.

thx.

#8 | Posted by lamplighter at 2020-08-28 01:45 PM | Reply

I just want to get to the actual truth of how this played out. I seem to be the only one not invested in having one side or the other side be the "bad guy". Show me a video of Rittenhouser popping off rounds before being chased and I will alter my views on potential self defense. All the videos I have seen so far (and there are a lot of them) do not appear to show him as being the initial aggressor.

#9 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 01:49 PM | Reply

@#9

I wasn't criticizing, it was an honest question.

So you don't know.

thx.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-08-28 01:52 PM | Reply

"Now why the f+++ Rittenhouse would bring a rifle to a protest in the first place, is a separate issue."

Gaige Grosskreutz was armed as well. And Rittenhouse does not have appear to have shot anyone until he was threatened with bodily harm while fleeing.

#11 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 01:53 PM | Reply

And Rittenhouse does not have appear to have shot anyone until he was threatened with bodily harm while fleeing.

#11 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2020-08-28 01

And then he killed no one who didn't have his back to him.

#12 | Posted by Zed at 2020-08-28 01:56 PM | Reply

"Were they chasing him before or after he fired the shots."

I posted this elsewhere:

Smerconish had Christiaan Triebert from the New York Times on this afternoon (my time). Rittenhouse had been protecting an auto dealership and providing first aid to those who needed it. At some point, someone started a fire in a dumpster, and he was seen running with a fire extinguisher to put it out. After that, he was seen being chased by three people. Someone else (not yet identified) fired off a shot, After which someone lunged at him. He then shot one of his pursuers, ID'd as Joseph Rosenbaum. JR died soon after. He was then being chased by two additional people, ID'd as Anthony Huber and Gaige Grosskreutz. Huber was killed and Grosskreutz was injured and ran off. Grosskreutz was also illegally in possession of a weapon. During the chaos, there were 16 shots fired that did not come from Rittenhouse. After that, he approached police with his hands up while others ID'd him as the shooter. The police did not pay any interest. He then went home and was arrested later.

Like many, I thought he was just another loser militia guy out to shoot someone. The facts show different.

#13 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 01:56 PM | Reply

"And then he killed no one who didn't have his back to him."

That's true. They were all coming at him. Joseph Rosenbaum took a round to the head. Anthony Huber took a round to the chest, after which he turn and ran away before dying. Gaige Grosskreutz took a round to the arm and fled, later turning up in a hospital where they were able to save his arm.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 01:58 PM | Reply

&nsp

@#9

Based upon the criminal complaint, it appears that Mr Rittenhouse fired a shot before the time he was chase by the crowd.

You can dig up the actual criminal complaint, here's a summary..

Criminal Complaint Against Kyle Rittenhouse Details Prosecutors' Version Of Events In Kenosha Shooting That Killed 2, Wounded 1
chicago.cbslocal.com

#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-08-28 01:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They were all coming at him.

#14 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

When you have an active shooter, that's what you do.

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2020-08-28 01:59 PM | Reply

"I just want to get to the actual truth of how this played out. I seem to be the only one not invested in having one side or the other side be the "bad guy". Show me a video of Rittenhouser popping off rounds before being chased and I will alter my views on potential self defense. All the videos I have seen so far (and there are a lot of them) do not appear to show him as being the initial aggressor."

If you have an NYT subscription, Christiaan Triebert's team has built a play by play of what happened. Rittenhouse comes off like a naive dumbass, but had gone there administering first aid to protesters and protecting property. The violence appears to have started when he attempted to put out a fire that someone had started in a dumpster.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 02:00 PM | Reply

Fascinating. The boy was armed with an advanced killing machine, with which he did some advanced killing, and you make him the victim.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2020-08-28 02:01 PM | Reply

"When you have an active shooter, that's what you do."

They were doing it before he fired off a single round.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 02:01 PM | Reply

"Fascinating. The boy was armed with an advanced killing machine, with which he did some advanced killing, and you make him the victim."

Do you deny that he was being attacked? Not for attacking someone else, but for trying to put out a fire.

#20 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 02:02 PM | Reply

Do you deny that he was being attacked?

#20 | POSTED BY MADBOMBE

What did you just say? That if he popped off a round beforehand it changes the situation entirely? That's what's alleged. The general populace has a new value since 9/1 to charge aggressors rather than flee.

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2020-08-28 02:05 PM | Reply

"A new value since 9/11"

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2020-08-28 02:06 PM | Reply

Zed, actually MadBomber does ask the key question. Is there any evidence that Rittenhouser was the aggressor? All the video I have seen (and there is a lot of it) indicates Rittenhouser was being chased by several people, and once he was on the ground he fired in self defense. I am completely open to revising that opinion if shown reliable evidence. Certainly I have not seen any video of him "popping off rounds" prior to be being chased. Please show me something, anything, to indicate that Rittenhouser was the initial aggressor.

#23 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 02:08 PM | Reply

Not trying to pick a fight here, but there were elements of self-defense in Rittenhouse killing of those people.

There are, but self defense only goes so far. The shot that killed Rosenbaum was in his back. He shot him a total of five times.

Rittenhouse also reportedly pointed his gun at Rosenbaum before Rosenbaum did anything to him. Rosenbaum was shot when he moved to grab the gun, which also has elements of self defense for him.

The people chasing Rittenhouse down the street were confronting someone who appeared to be an active shooter. One of them he shot reportedly had his hands up when he was shot.

Because Wisconsin has no stand your ground law, Rittenhouse will have a higher hurdle to prove he was just defending himself. I have my doubts his actions to shoot people were all necessary.

#24 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is there any evidence that Rittenhouser was the aggressor?

Witness Richard McGinnis, a reporter, in the criminal complaint:

McGinnis described the point where the defendant had reached the car. McGinnis described that
the defendant had the gun in a low ready position. Meaning that he had the gun raised but pointed
downward. The butt of the gun would have been at an angle downwards from the shoulder.
McGinnis stated that the defendant brought the gun up. McGinnis stated that he stepped back and
Case 2020CF000983 Document 2 Filed 08-27-2020 Page4 of 5
he thinks the defendant fired 3 rounds in rapid succession. McGinnis said when the first round
went off, he thought it hit the pavement. McGinnis felt something on his leg and his first thought
was wondering whether he had gotten shot. McGinnis was behind and slightly to the right of
Rosenbaum, in the line of fire, when the defendant shot.

McGinnis stated that the first round went into the ground and when the second shot went off, the
defendant actually had the gun aimed at Rosenbaum. McGinnis stated he did not hear the two
exchange any words. McGinnis said that the unarmed guy (Rosenbaum) was trying to get the
defendant's gun. McGinnis demonstrated by extending both of his hands in a quick grabbing
motion and did that as a visual on how Rosenbaumtried to reach for the defendant's gun.
Detective Cepress indicates that he asked McGinnis if Rosenbaum had his hands on the gun when
the defendant shot. McGinnis said that he definitely made a motion that he was trying to grab the
barrel of the gun.

#25 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Perhaps I start with my bias against open-carry. The experience I and my wife have with them is that they use their weapons to intimidate. Which is exactly what I feared when their movement got started. Macho freaks, and now we have a teenager with under-developed pre-frontal cortex inhibitions totting them around in places their momma must have known they should not be.

Rittenhouse was the aggressor by the very fact he insinuated himself into a situation prepared for a gunfight. That's the founding fact to this.

#26 | Posted by Zed at 2020-08-28 02:14 PM | Reply

I have my doubts he didn't take actions that were not necessary.

The best action he could have taken was to stay at home. In Illinois.

Not march around Wisconsin while illegally carrying a Rifle.

There's no justification for anything Rittenhouse did.

Those looking for one are garbage.

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 02:18 PM | Reply

The reporter who witnessed the first shooting is a Daily Caller reporter. He also said this to police: "Before the shooting, McGinnis was interviewing the defendant. The defendant told McGinnis that he was a trained medic. McGinnis stated that he (McGinnis) has handled many ARs and that the defendant was not handling the weapon very well."

#28 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:18 PM | Reply

"I have my doubts he didn't take actions that were not necessary." - Huh?

#29 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 02:18 PM | Reply

My comment Clown quoted was confusingly worded, so I restated it: I have my doubts his actions to shoot people were all necessary.

#30 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:19 PM | Reply

"Not trying to pick a fight here, but there were elements of self-defense in Rittenhouse killing of those people."

If you are referring to the video of when he shot the skateboard guy he had already murdered one person prior to that.

You should read this

chicago.cbslocal.com

#31 | Posted by qcp at 2020-08-28 02:20 PM | Reply

I read it as: "I have my doubts he took the actions that were necessary." (To prevent having to murder someone.)

The kid decided he'd rather murder someone rather than possibly get punched in the face.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 02:23 PM | Reply

Rcade: To be clear, I don't believe the shooting of anyone was "necessary". Nobody there should have been carrying firearms in the first place. My question is whether under the circumstances and the law, does Rittenhouse have a legitimate self defense claim? My viewing of all the videos available thus far seems to indicate that he does. At worst, this appears to be a manslaughter case under either a heat-of-the-moment theory or a mistaken-but-good-faith-belief theory that he was in imminent danger. This does not appear to be murder. Again though, I can be persuaded to change my mind if additional evidence/video come out showing he was the initial aggressor. (And simply saying that he was armed does not make him the initial aggressor. Even though it does make him an idiot.)

#33 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 02:29 PM | Reply

Rittenhouse was the aggressor by the very fact he insinuated himself into a situation prepared for a gunfight.

While i fear this may not legally be enough, I agree with this 100%. My own opinion is that people like Rittenhouse show up to protests hoping to get into a situation where they can kill someone whose politics they likely disagree with in "self defense."

I don't think anybody here fully understands the intricacies of Wisconsin law on use of defensive force and how it's actually going to play out here, and I think anyone claiming they do know one way or the other is a joke.

#34 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rosenbaum's actions before the shooting are strange. Throwing an empty plastic bag at somebody isn't going to harm them in any way, which makes me think he was just trying to mess with Rittenhouse's head.

This is just speculation, but based on this ...

McGinnis stated that before the defendant reached the parking lot and ran across it, the defendant had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road to the sidewalk and that is when McGinnis saw a male (Rosenbaum ) initially try to engage the defendant. McGinnis stated that as the defendant was walking Rosenbaum was trying to get closer to the defendant. When Rosenbaum advanced, the defendant did a "juke move and started running. McGinnis stated that there were other people that were moving very quickly . McGinnis stated that they were moving towards the defendant. McGinnis said that according to what he saw the defendant was trying to evade these individuals.

... it sounds like Rosenbaum was walking up to Rittenhouse to engage in more of the hothead talk that the militia and people with Rosenbaum were seen doing minutes earlier as they clashed. Rittenhouse got spooked and ran away, and Rosenbaum and others chased him to scare him further. The idea of making a gun bunny run away could have appealed to them.

Then somebody shot a gun close by and Rittenhouse turned to look, putting him face to face with Rosenbaum. He pointed the rifle, Rosenbaum grabbed at it (either in fear or to take it away), and Rittenhouse shot him five times. Somebody right before the first shot yelled "---- you!"

#35 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:32 PM | Reply

My viewing of all the videos available thus far seems to indicate that he does.

I think it's going to boil down to what the closest witnesses say about Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum's interaction before Rittenhouse fired the gun.

But it is terrible for this country that gun bunnies introduce firearms into situations and then get all the benefit of the doubt when they use them.

#36 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

At the very least, I am skeptical of the headline to this thread which tries to make Rosenbaum out to be some kind of hero.

#37 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 02:40 PM | Reply

The headline is about Huber, the skateboard guy, who did appear to be trying to take down an active shooter.

#38 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:44 PM | Reply

Does anyone who has seen the videos think that the person nearest to Rosenbaum right before the shooting was holding a camera? I think that might be McGinnis and the police have his video.

#39 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 02:45 PM | Reply

I am skeptical of the headline to this thread which tries to make Rosenbaum out to be some kind of hero.
#37 | POSTED BY MODER8

Based on your posts. It seems you'd prefer a headline that makes Rittenhouse a hero.

Weird.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 02:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#15

Joseph Rosenbaum had confronted and was chasing Rittenhouse. Right before Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum, someone else fired off a gunshot. It is possible that bystanders thought that Rittenhouse fired that shot, prior to the shots he fired at Rosenbaum. It's been established that Rosenbaum was attacking Rittenhouse when Rosenbaum was shot. What's not known, at least to me, is whether or not Huber and Grosskreutz were responding to the shooting of Rosenbaum because they thought that Rittenhouse was shooting first without cause, or whether Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskreutz were part of the same group that had attacked Rittenhouse. It could very well be that the two latter were unrelated to Rosenbaum's attack, and made the assumption that Rittenhouse was shooting randomly and they were trying to stop him.

The scenario makes sense, but it's nothing more than conjecture on my part.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:02 PM | Reply

It doesn't look like the other two shooting victims were near the first shooting as it took place.

The people closest to that shooting rendered aid to Rosenbaum or gathered around to rubberneck.

#42 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 03:04 PM | Reply

"Rittenhouse was the aggressor by the very fact he insinuated himself into a situation prepared for a gunfight. That's the founding fact to this."

But by your definition, so did Grosskreutz. In fact I can post a video of Grosskreutz pointing a gun at Ritterhouse in the seconds leading to Grosskreutz being shot by Ritterhouse.

So let me ask you this, had Grosskreutz killed Ritterhouse, would you have been equally critical to his actions?

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:11 PM | Reply

"The best action he could have taken was to stay at home. In Illinois."

Again, should all protesters be required to protest in their state of residency?

"Not march around Wisconsin while illegally carrying a Rifle."

I can post a video of Grosskreutz pointing a gun at Ritterhouse in the seconds leading to Grosskreutz being shot. Do you have anything to say about that?

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:13 PM | Reply

"The kid decided he'd rather murder someone rather than possibly get punched in the face."

Or shot in the face. Since Grosskreutz was pointing a gun at Ritterhouse when Ritterhouse fired at Grosskreutz.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:14 PM | Reply

"My own opinion is that people like Rittenhouse show up to protests hoping to get into a situation where they can kill someone whose politics they likely disagree with in "self defense."

You can't do anything in self defense unless it's in self defense. Which means that someone else chooses to be the aggressor.

It doesn't matter how much of a badass you are. There is always someone who is a bigger badass. Which is why it's never a good idea to pick a fight.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:16 PM | Reply

"I don't think anybody here fully understands the intricacies of Wisconsin law on use of defensive force and how it's actually going to play out here, and I think anyone claiming they do know one way or the other is a joke."

That's probably true. But in the last several days, I think this has gone from being a situation where the shooter was viewed in the same lens as someone like Dylan Roof or Stephen Paddock to someone who was responding to an imminent threat. How much you want to bet this is going to be a key issue in the upcoming election season?

And let's be honest, it's going to favor Trump.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:19 PM | Reply

The pudgy little MAGAt was looking to shoot somebody. After killing Rosenbaum he made a phone call to brag about it.

#48 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-28 03:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#42

There are videos of both the shooting of Rosenbaum and Grosskreutz. Both are available for posting, but I don't know what your comfort level is on things like that.

The source information I've referenced comes from Christiaan Triebert's team at the New York Times. The obvious problem with the times is that it is a paywall site. But the article is there if you're interested.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:23 PM | Reply

You can't do anything in self defense unless it's in self defense. Which means that someone else chooses to be the aggressor.

That's not a response to my post; my opinion is that people like Rittenhouse intend to get into situations that might legally constitute self-defense, but showed up in the first place with that intent, something that will almost never be proven unless they literally post on social media "heading to the protest to provoke people into attacking me so i can shoot them in self-defense xD"

should all protesters be required to protest in their state of residency?

Rittenhouse wasn't a protestor. But as someone who has lived in IL/WI my entire life, this business about him "crossing state lines" is overblown. Antioch is maybe 20 miles from Kenosha; the equivalent of driving to the next town over where a protest is happening.

#50 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 03:24 PM | Reply

Again, should all protesters be required to protest in their state of residency?

He wasn't a protester. He was a wannabe

He attended a Trump rally and idolized the police.

He didn't go to Wisconsin with his rifle to protest.

He went to Wisconsin with his rifle to hunt protesters.

He murdered two and became your hero.

You can't accept the fact this 17 year old kid should have stayed home in Illinois.

He crossed state line with a rifle to commit murder and he succeeded.

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 03:27 PM | Reply

Rein: Interesting. Is there any evidence as to who Rittenhouse called or what was actually said? Or are you just looking to paint Rittenhouse in the most negative light you can without actual supporting evidence? Because honestly, it seems more likely that he was calling someone in a panic to tell them what had just occurred.

Again, I seem to be just about the only one trying to get to the actual truth of how this played out. Am I the only one not invested in having one side or the other side be the "bad guy"? Because from a factual standpoint, it is hard to take most (not all) of the comments above seriously. Just anger and an attempt to hold one side or the other as the bad guy. To be fair, in #35 and #42 Rcade does make the effort to break it down with facts.

#52 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-28 03:28 PM | Reply

www.cnn.com

#53 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-28 03:29 PM | Reply

"That's not a response to my post; my opinion is that people like Rittenhouse intend to get into situations that might legally constitute self-defense, but showed up in the first place with that intent, something that will almost never be proven unless they literally post on social media "heading to the protest to provoke people into attacking me so i can shoot them in self-defense xD"

Perhaps.

But Rittenhouse was running away from Rosenbaum when Rosenbaum was shot.

Do you think was justified in attacking Rittenhouse? If so, why? And why should Rittenhouse have simply allowed himself to be attacked? And more importantly, why did Rittenhouse have less of a right to be there than anyone else?

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:29 PM | Reply

"You can't accept the fact this 17 year old kid should have stayed home in Illinois."

Maybe everyone should have stayed home?

Why don't you just say that?

It's not like Rittenhouse was the only ------- at this party.

#55 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:31 PM | Reply

Since Grosskreutz was pointing a gun at Ritterhouse when Ritterhouse fired at Grosskreutz.

Oh you mean the third guy Rittenhouse tried to murder?

Grosskreutz couldn't have been responding to Rittenhouse's murder spree, right?

#56 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 03:32 PM | Reply

"He wasn't a protester. He was a wannabe"

As far as I know, all Americans have the right to peaceful assembly. Did the First Amendment not apply to Rittenhouse?

#57 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:33 PM | Reply

An armed assembly looking for trouble is not a peaceful assembly.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 03:39 PM | Reply

"It's not like Rittenhouse was the only ------- at this party."

He was the only one killing people.
So yeah, he kinda was.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 03:40 PM | Reply

Rein: Interesting. Is there any evidence as to who Rittenhouse called or what was actually said? Or are you just looking to paint Rittenhouse in the most negative light you can without actual supporting evidence?
#52 | POSTED BY MODER8

Better question.

Why are you so desperate to defend a murdered?

I get MadDumber. Liberals getting murdered by white conservatives is good news in his book. He also believed Trayvon Martin deserved to die.

#60 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 03:41 PM | Reply

"Grosskreutz couldn't have been responding to Rittenhouse's murder spree, right?"

No.

First, it wasn't a "spree" at that point. The only person who had been killed at that point was Rosenbaum, who had attacked Rittenhouse as Rittenhouse ran away.

That said, I don't think it's yet known why Grosskreutz was pointing a gun at Rittenhouse. It could very well be that he thought that Rittenhouse was randomly killing people. It could also be something else. Grosskreutz did already have a felony conviction and was not allowed to possess a firearm, but I'm less concerned about the law when it comes to self protection. Grosskreutz may have believed that Rittenhouse was an active shooter and was trying to stop him. But we don't know at this point.

What I do know is that if I thought I was facing an active shooter, I would pull the trigger the minute I had a solid sight picture. Grosskreutz didn't do that. Additionally, Grosskreutz did say he regrets not having killed Rittenhouse. By the time Grosskreutz was shot, both of the other casualties were either dead or well on their way. And Rittenhouse was trying to turn himself into the police.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:42 PM | Reply

"someone who was responding to an imminent threat."

He certainly heeded the battle call.

The threat of legal protest was about 100%

But there was no threat to life or limb he was responding to.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 03:42 PM | Reply

"An armed assembly looking for trouble is not a peaceful assembly."

Are you talking about Grosskreutz or Rittenhouse?

Or both?

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:43 PM | Reply

Since Grosskreutz was pointing a gun at Ritterhouse when Ritterhouse fired at Grosskreutz.

At the time he was shot, he wasn't pointing it. His hands and the gun were pointed upwards.

#64 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 03:43 PM | Reply

The only person who had been killed at that point was Rosenbaum, who had attacked Rittenhouse as Rittenhouse ran away.

The closest eyewitness did not say Rosenbaum attacked Rittenhouse. Chased, yes. Attacked, no.

#65 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 03:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rittenhouse goes on a fear fueled murdering spree and idiots accuse the dead of deserving to be murdered.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 03:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why are you so desperate to defend a murdered?"

Why are you so desperate to defend those who were killed because they decided they were going to employ violence against someone who decided to defend themselves?

I feel like that's why you're pissed. Because someone decided to defend themselves, rather than simply take the beating you feel they should have.

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:47 PM | Reply

What I do know is that if I thought I was facing an active shooter, I would pull the trigger the minute I had a solid sight picture. Grosskreutz didn't do that.

It's easy to say that at a keyboard, but in the moment with the adrenaline doing a number on your brain not so much.

Grosskreutz charged Rittenhouse and then hesitated and took a step back. That enabled Rittenhouse to aim and fire the gun at him.

#68 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 03:47 PM | Reply

First, it wasn't a "spree" at that point.

Two dead isn't a "spree" yet?

It usually is when it's a black guy.

But. Kyle is white. So you defend the indefensible.

#69 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 03:47 PM | Reply

"At the time he was shot, he wasn't pointing it. His hands and the gun were pointed upwards."

I can post the video. I think you're looking at the guy on the left. The guy on the right, holding the gun, most definitely did not have his hands in the air.

The guy on the right only put his hands in the air after the guy on the right took a round.

#70 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 03:49 PM | Reply

Why are you so desperate to defend those who were killed because they decided they were going to employ violence against someone who decided to defend themselves?

Nice framing. Guy with a gun shoots someone to death, firing five bullets, and then runs away down a public street as horrified people yell "he's the shooter!" Your first thought as a person on that street is not going to be "he must have just been defending himself."

#71 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 03:50 PM | Reply

"First, it wasn't a "spree" at that point."

^
Meaningless, gaslighting inspired comment.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 03:50 PM | Reply

The guy on the right, holding the gun, most definitely did not have his hands in the air.

I've seen video where his hands are facing upwards. It's also in media accounts. He wasn't raising them like "I surrender" but he wasn't aiming at Rittenhouse.

#73 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 03:50 PM | Reply

"Why are you so desperate to defend those who were killed because they decided they were going to employ violence against someone who decided to defend themselves?"

^
You might as well be describing Jacob Blake. The police decided they were going to employ violence, and (your side claims) he decided to defend himself by reaching for a knife.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 03:55 PM | Reply

"I am skeptical of the headline to this thread which tries to make Rosenbaum out to be some kind of hero."

-Madbummer

Sorry he is not your hero.

He was a hero to his girlfriend.

#75 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-28 03:57 PM | Reply

"The closest eyewitness did not say Rosenbaum attacked Rittenhouse. Chased, yes. Attacked, no."

scallywagandvagabond.com

Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty clear that Rosenbaum was a piece of ----. What's less clear is Huber and Grosskreutz. It's well within the realm of possibility that they thought Ritterhouse was an active shooter who was killing randomly, and did what they could to eliminate what they viewed as an imminent threat to public safety.

#76 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:02 PM | Reply

"Grosskreutz charged Rittenhouse and then hesitated and took a step back. That enabled Rittenhouse to aim and fire the gun at him."

There was no step back in the video I saw.

Rittenhouse fired from less than two feet away. You can see Grosskreutz grab his arm with the gun dangling from his hand.

#77 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:06 PM | Reply

"Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty clear that Rosenbaum was a piece of ----."

Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty clear that MadBomber is too.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"The closest eyewitness did not say Rosenbaum attacked Rittenhouse. Chased, yes. Attacked, no."

That's fair.

Like saying a bear attack isn't really an attack if you're able to outrun the bear.

But what happens if you're unable to outrun the bear?

#79 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:07 PM | Reply

"Nice framing. Guy with a gun shoots someone to death, firing five bullets, and then runs away down a public street as horrified people yell "he's the shooter!" Your first thought as a person on that street is not going to be "he must have just been defending himself."

OK.

Are you stating that you don't believe that Ritterhouse viewed Rosenbaum as an imminent threat?

He was running away while Rosenbaum was chasing him. If you listen to the video, you hear the person recording the video stating "that's antifa, man."

scallywagandvagabond.com

#80 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:10 PM | Reply

"Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty clear that MadBomber is too."

Cool.

Now shine my ------- shoes.

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:12 PM | Reply

Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty clear that Rosenbaum was a piece of ----.

So he deserved to be murdered by some jackhole kid living out some militia vigilante fantasy?

#82 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 04:12 PM | Reply

"He was a hero to his girlfriend."

Really.

I pity any girl who views a registered sex offender as a hero.

I guess you just keep him away from the kids?

#83 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:13 PM | Reply

"I pity any girl who views a registered sex offender as a hero."

You can get a registered sex offender status in this country for public urination.

I suppose you think that's an appropriate use of state power to control people's lives.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:14 PM | Reply

Now shine my ------- shoes.
#81 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

We both know I can't get those jackboots any shinier than they've taught you to do it in Germany.

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:16 PM | Reply

Are you stating that you don't believe that Ritterhouse viewed Rosenbaum as an imminent threat?

Regardless. That doesn't give Ritterhouse the right to murder Rosenbaum.

In an attempt to justify Ritterhouse's actions, you're implying Rosenbaum was going to murder Ritterhouse.

That's a lot of assumption on your part and absolutely bullshht.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 04:16 PM | Reply

"So he deserved to be murdered by some jackhole kid living out some militia vigilante fantasy?"

Not really deserve...more like chose.

It took effort for him to pick a fight with Rittenhouse. To threaten someone generally requires a conscious decision to pursue a given course of action.

Yes or No. Do you think that Rosenbaum would be alive today had he simply allowed Rittenhouse to put out the fire in the dumpster?

#87 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:16 PM | Reply

"But what happens if you're unable to outrun the bear?"

Are bears responsibile for their own actions?

Are armed guards responsible for their own actions?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:17 PM | Reply

He was the only one killing people

Communists.

He was the only one killing Communists.

What are we at---3 now? Two here and that one in Austin? Plus the ----- as few weeks ago where Comrade Oopsie shot at a car and missed and got a few of his own?

Sadly, I'm afraid our little Preferred-Pronoun Chekisti are going to encounter a lot more of this as they attempt to ooze out of the more sympathetic urban enclaves and into the actual country they need to revolutionize. But we'll worry about that later.

I like the idea of keeping running score. It'd kinda be like an emotional offset to these daily COVID counts. Something to look at and feel good about for a change.


#89 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 04:17 PM | Reply

"To threaten someone generally requires a conscious decision to pursue a given course of action."

Like brandishing a gun to intimidate protesters?

You know, like those Missouri Lawyer-Heroes Trump had speak at his convention?

You would have been okay with someone they pointed their guns at shooting them in self-defense, yes?

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:20 PM | Reply

"Something to look at and feel good about for a change."

Trump must not have given you much to feel good about in four years.

And that's what you Deplorables love about him so much.

Misery loves company.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:22 PM | Reply

"Are you stating that you don't believe that Ritterhouse viewed Rosenbaum as an imminent threat?"

Plenty of people view a black man as an imminent threat.

If on foot, they cross to the other side of the street.
Ic in a car, they roll up the windows and lock the doors.
And so it logically follows that shooting is justified too.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:25 PM | Reply

Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty clear that Rosenbaum was a piece of ----.

Rosenbaum's past has nothing to do with the night he was shot.

#93 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 04:26 PM | Reply

Do you think was justified in attacking Rittenhouse?

I've made it clear in this thread and others that nobody here, including me, knows whether Rittenhouse was legally justified in shooting those people. My point, if you can read, is that i believe Rittenhouse went to the protest with the express purpose of getting himself into a situation where he might be able to legally shoot a liberal. I do not claim that the law will discover that or look back that far; it is only my opinion.

#94 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 04:29 PM | Reply

Do you think that Rosenbaum would be alive today had he simply allowed Rittenhouse to put out the fire in the dumpster?
#87 | POSTED BY MADTOSSER

Ritterhouse shouldn't have been carrying a rifle.

Then. None of the other events of the night would have transpired.

Case closed.

#95 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 04:32 PM | Reply

Rosenbaum's past has nothing to do with the night he was shot.
#93 | POSTED BY RCADE

You know damn well the supporters of state violence will routinely justify state violence by something unrelated that a private citizen did in the past.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:36 PM | Reply

It's weird how all these guys have peculiar German names.

#97 | Posted by PussyFort at 2020-08-28 04:37 PM | Reply

"Rittenhouse went to the protest with the express purpose of getting himself into a situation where he might be able to legally shoot a liberal."

He was heeding Trump's call to arms.

The protesters are horrible people, and he was defending honest hardworking Americans from lawless, violent liberal criminals.

Anne Coulter wants him for President; Eberly still wants to be a Republican.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:40 PM | Reply

It's weird how all these guys have peculiar German names.
#97 | POSTED BY ---------

Lots of Germans emigrated to that region. Which explains the beer too.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:41 PM | Reply

The Zimmerman Defense sure made a lasting impression on MadBomber.

You can hunt somebody, and when they choose to fight back, you're now justified to use lethal force against the person you were hunting.

It makes it's own gravy.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 04:45 PM | Reply

RCade, this forum is giving voice to racist bigots and apologists for the racist symbiosis of white supremacists and US law enforcement. The numbers don't lie:

White Vigilantes Have Always Had A Friend In Police

Data shows right-wing vigilantes & paramilitaries have confronted or attacked anti-racist protesters about 500 times since cops killed George Floyd in May. This includes at least:

64 assaults
38 attacks by car
9 shootings
3 deaths

This is not happening in a vaccuum and whether posters realize it or not they are both justifying and amplifying the ethos found on unabashedly racist websites and social media postings. These people are hunting peaceful protesters and inciting them into action that justifies their use of both harming and deadly force.

On the other side, protesters (vandals are not protesters, they're vandals) are simply marching to force our criminal justice system to treat all people with the same respect and dignity we see them use every single time one of these vigilantes is arrested and allowed their full due process and defense afforded them by the Constitution. Vigilantes don't get buried and they don't end up in ICUs. They end up being celebrated by the very individuals we see doing it right here, and the millions of other white supremacists and law enforcement officers who follow in the footsteps of their predecessors from over 400 years ago up to today.

#101 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 04:49 PM | Reply

Moder8: of course. He went looking too start crap, and panicked when crap started. Of course he was in fear for his life. Someone else with a gun called him on his crap and he panics and ends up shooting someone.

Did they shoot first? The videos aren't clear, but possibly. Even if they did, he was in violation of gun laws being a minor, in violation of the curfew, in a totally different state, "protecting" property no one asked him to protect. He deserves 25 to life. No less.

The police shooting, while tragic, is looking like a clean shoot. He has wrestled with her officers, broke free, and the officers followed him for dozens of feet insisting many verbal commands without shooting him.... because he wasn'ta threat. He became a threat after ignoring the officers, opening his car door and reaching in. There us established case law that says an officer can infer the suspect is Reaching for something dangerous in that exact situation. Having a knife on the driver side where he reached confirms the problem.

#102 | Posted by Abh at 2020-08-28 04:51 PM | Reply

"Rosenbaum's past has nothing to do with the night he was shot."

Agreed.

So what about "Shoot me ni**a?"

What about chasing Rittenhouse while throwing stuff at him?

Non-confrontational?

#103 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:55 PM | Reply

#95

"Do you think that Rosenbaum would be alive today had he simply allowed Rittenhouse to put out the fire in the dumpster?"

Yes?

No?

#104 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:56 PM | Reply

So i'm reading a case about self-defense in Wisconsin, and it sheds some light on what Rittenhouse will need to show via evidence to put self-defense in play:

"The evidence must show (1) a reasonable belief that he was preventing or terminating an unlawful interference with his person; (2) a reasonable belief force or threat thereof was necessary to prevent or terminate the interference; and (3) a reasonable belief that the actual amount of force used was necessary to prevent or terminate the interference." State v. Head, 255 Wis.2d 194 (2002).

An actual but unreasonable belief in any of the above will result in a conviction for second-degree murder.

I bolded "actual amount" because i think that's important here. Was the use of an AR-15 to blow holes in someone's body the correct "amount" of force to stop someone who threw a plastic bag toward you? Again, only a criminal lawyer can answer this, it just strikes me that if you overarm yourself that perhaps you shouldn't be off the hook for using excessive force in self-defense just because that's the only thing you've got.

#105 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 04:57 PM | Reply

White vigilantes and far-right actors have shown up to oppose Black Lives Matter protests in the U.S. at least 497 times this year, according to data collected by Alexander Reid Ross, a doctoral fellow at the Center for Analysis of the Radical Right. He started gathering data on May 27, two days after police in Minneapolis killed George Floyd, and continued through this week.

The dataset, which Ross shared with HuffPost, documents a staggering amount of violence directed at protesters by the far-right, including 64 cases of simple assault, 38 incidents of vigilantes driving cars into demonstrators, and nine times shots were fired at protesters.

All told, six protesters were hit by vigilante bullets in this summer's violence. Three died from their wounds.

Ross' dataset also includes 387 incidents of intimidation, such as people using racist slurs, making threats and brandishing firearms.

"There just isn't really anything to compare it to," Ross told HuffPost. "I've never seen anything like this in my life."

www.huffpost.com

How many protesters have shot people during their protests? How many protesters have run over counterprotesters with their vehicles?

So Kyle got intimidated? Not against the law or nearly 400 white people would be sitting in jail right now. The person-to-person violence is unquestionably being fueled by white supremacists and those standing against racial justice. This pity party for their criminality should be equally shut down for the racist spewing lie fest that it is.

#106 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

------- italics.

#107 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 04:58 PM | Reply

"You know damn well the supporters of state violence will routinely justify state violence by something unrelated that a private citizen did in the past."

What's more important though is the actions he took in the present. Also worth recognizing that the state didn't kill Rosenbaum. The person he was attacking did.

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 04:58 PM | Reply

I support protests, but at this point I don't believe anybody out after dark can legitimately claim to be just protesting. They're either vandalizing or giving cover for those people.

#109 | Posted by PussyFort at 2020-08-28 05:00 PM | Reply

"state didn't kill Rosenbaum. The person he was attacking did."

But you're still using that tactic; justifying killing him because his past makes him a Bad Guy.

And his killer was an auxiliary police cadet, once removed from the state, who was also told by his state handlers that they appreciate him being there.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:02 PM | Reply

"RCade, this forum is giving voice to racist bigots and apologists for the racist symbiosis of white supremacists and US law enforcement."

Sometimes I think that's the whole point of this place.

This is one of those times.

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:03 PM | Reply

I support protests, but at this point I don't believe anybody out after dark can legitimately claim to be just protesting.

I've seen plenty of legitimate protest at night. Don't lump in the protesters with the people who are there to stir ---- up.

#113 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 05:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The police shooting, while tragic, is looking like a clean shoot."

The law shouldn't encourage tragedy.

Batons, pepper spray, even simple grappling techniques which police seem incapable of performing. Instead it's just taser if you're lucky, then gun.

And then these incompetent fools couldn't even kill him with eight shots.

We truly should disarm the police. They kill 1,000 people a year. They've killed thousands more than 9/11 since 9/11, and you still think they are heroes.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:07 PM | Reply

#104

Your "What if..." scenarios are a waste of time.

Rittenhouse was illegally carrying a rifle. Which gave him a false sense of invincibility.

Which put him in the situation he ended up in.

He suddenly realized he's was a scared kid.

He murdered Rosenbaum out of fear.

Then tried to get away but a protester, Huber, tried to stop Rittenhouse. So, Rittenhouse murdered Huber, too.

Rittenhouse is a murderer. Despite being your personal hero.

#116 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 05:07 PM | Reply

A U.S. Army sergeant, who had previously posted tweets about targeting Black Lives Matter activists, shot and killed a protester in Austin, Texas.

Black Lives Matter protesters marching through a rural part of Bedford County, Pennsylvania, say a white man opened fire on them at night, striking one protester in the face.

A man in Iowa City, Iowa, allegedly drove his car into a crowd of protesters and, according to a criminal complaint, later justified the attack by telling police the protesters needed "an attitude adjustment."

The steady drumbeat of such stories this summer has coincided with story after story of cops and national guardsmen openly supporting or collaborating with fascists and white vigilantes.

Ross said his dataset includes about two dozen incidents of vigilantes receiving approval or support from law enforcement. A sheriff in Arizona, for example, announced he would form a "civilian posse" to help "suppress lawlessness" during a time of "widespread unrest."

In California, a sheriff's deputy was spotted wearing a "III Percenters" militia patch on his uniform while policing a protest. And in Portland, Oregon, cops let the neo-fascist gang the Proud Boys attack protesters in the streets.

www.huffpost.com

Let's have a discussion about the REAL purveyors of violence across America since the murder of George Floyd. And let's identify those who openly echo the language and lies of racists and bigots to justify the real carnage being unleashed across this nation towards peaceful protesters as they fight for simple human rights and equal justice under the law.

No one needs to be silenced, but the lies and distortions of reality should be labeled exactly what they are. And the liars and those who justify the use of criminal tactics and extrajudicial use of force and tactics just the same.

#117 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 05:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But you're still using that tactic; justifying killing him because his past makes him a Bad Guy."

It does make him a bad guy. Always will.

What got him killed was attacking a teenager with a gun who seems to have been a really good shot.

#119 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:08 PM | Reply

I've seen on FB where some pro-police posters are trying to defend Rittenhouse's actions and claim he was acting in self-defense. They refuse to admit that an out of state 17-years-old illegally possessing the most effective killing machine available to Americans today should not have been on the streets of Kenosha. Jesus, our country is DOOMED.

#120 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-08-28 05:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

A 17 year old boy feels he is being attacked by a 36 year old sex offender.

The 17 year old boy was carrying an AR-15 and didn't know the history of any of the people he interacted with that day.

I'm not going to speculate on what happens in criminal courtrooms because i'm fortunate enough to never have been in one. But i noticed you completely dodged my entire point about whether the amount of force he used was reasonable or not. If you aren't going to respond to my posts then please don't respond at all.

#121 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 05:11 PM | Reply

"He murdered Rosenbaum out of fear."

Yeah...because Rosenbaum was attacking him.

Let's be honest Clown. Had Ritterhouse been some sort of armed left-wing activist fighting off Klan members and proud boys, you'd be praising his bravery.

Be honest.

#122 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:11 PM | Reply

"violence directed at protesters by the far-right, including 64 cases of simple assault, 38 incidents of vigilantes driving cars into demonstrators, and nine times shots were fired at protesters."

It's clear who the terrorists are.
And it's clear the GOP sides with them.
For they are one and the same now.

Eberly is the only Republican who thinks Jacob Blake didn't deserve to get shot.

All the rest think it wasn't only justified, it was the optimal outcome.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:11 PM | Reply

RCade, this forum is giving voice to racist bigots and apologists for the racist symbiosis of white supremacists and US law enforcement

I would be more inclined to say this forum is giving voice to nihilistic, angry little --------- who pretend what's happening in Kenosha, Portland, Seattle, etc. is legitimate protest. Rioting isn't protest. Rioting is violence. In the absence of law, violence is met with violence. That's what happened in Kenosha, and will continue to happen elsewhere.

Any American is more than welcome to mass together to protest whatever they think their particular little grievance is. That's a good thing. But that's not what's happening here. Protestors don't set dumpsters and car dealerships on fire. Or break windows. Or bring Glocks. Until you're able to muster the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that, you can F--- right off with that "everyone who disagrees with me is a white supremacist" tripe.

#124 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 05:13 PM | Reply

" I've seen plenty of legitimate protest at night."

I'm not saying it's not possible, but in the current environment it's just foolish and plays right into the hands of those who want to lump the protests in with the violence.

#125 | Posted by PussyFort at 2020-08-28 05:14 PM | Reply

"Had Ritterhouse been some sort of armed left-wing activist fighting off Klan members and proud boys, you'd be praising his bravery."

And you'd be calling for his execution.

But hey, at least you know which team you're on, Proud Boy.

It's really no surprise that you'd unerringly support state-sponsored violence and suppression over individual liberty and personal freedom. That uniform you wear is your life's greatest and proudest accomplishment.

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:15 PM | Reply

There is no scenario, spin, or angle where Rittenhouse is in the right. Even if his intentions were purely good.... and I absolutely do not believe they were.... he caused the actions to him murdering two people. He skittles be tried as an adult and get 25 to life.

If his mom dropped him off, which I hear is the case, she needs to 10 as an accessory.

#127 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:16 PM | Reply

Should be. I need better glasses.

#128 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:16 PM | Reply

But i noticed you completely dodged my entire point about whether the amount of force he used was reasonable or not.

He murdered a man due to fear, and possibly a plastic bag.

There's no justification for his actions.

If he wasn't a white kid. This wouldn't be a discussion. He'd have been immediately arrested, and possibly convicted by now.

If you aren't going to respond to my posts then please don't respond at all.

You're asking a troll to behave.

He can't. He's only here to shht on this thread and Anthony Huber's death.

Who. Attacked him with a skateboard in attempt to disarm this murderer. Who. Ended up dead. And vilified. By Trumpers.

#129 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 05:16 PM | Reply

The good news is L. Lin Wood and the legal team from the FightBackFoundation is representing this kid pro bono. The donation site will be up shortly.

#130 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 05:17 PM | Reply

"legitimate protest. Rioting isn't protest."

Which acts of riot did Rittenhouse respond to and attempt to quell with lethal force, then?

And just to be clear: Lethal force is the legitimate response to riot and property damage, is that where you stand?

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:18 PM | Reply

"Let's have a discussion about the REAL purveyors of violence across America since the murder of George Floyd"

Geroge Floyd was a convicted criminal who resisted arrest while on high on meth. Reyshard Brooks was also a felon, who passed out in a drive through after getting too ------ up. Jacob Blake had a warrant out for his arrest for sexual assault.

Are these your heroes?

#132 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:18 PM | Reply

#124

You are 100% correct. But 99% of those in the streets are NOT vandals. No one is sticking up for vandalism and the wanton destruction of property. Those who do so should be prosecuted, full stop. But the people we're talking about apparently were not committing acts of vandalism, they were there in support or the efforts to affect change.

What we do know is that racists and vigilantes were NOT THERE to support racial justice, they were there to deliver extrajudicial justice as non-deputized citizens with no personal property at risk solely so they can project violence towards those with whom they disagree.

#133 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 05:18 PM | Reply

The good news is L. Lin Wood and the legal team from the FightBackFoundation is representing this kid pro bono. The donation site will be up shortly.

It's "good news" that a bunch of guys who don't practice criminal law are going to interject themselves to run a PR game and bilk Trumpers out of their hard-earned money?

Wait...maybe that is good news.

#134 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 05:21 PM | Reply

If his mom dropped him off, which I hear is the case, she needs to 10 as an accessory.
#127 | POSTED BY ABH

His mom was apparently there, with an AR of her own.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:21 PM | Reply

Geroge Floyd was a convicted criminal who resisted arrest while on high on meth. Reyshard Brooks was also a felon, who passed out in a drive through after getting too ------ up. Jacob Blake had a warrant out for his arrest for sexual assault.

Were their charges capital offenses that warranted their deaths without due process? This is the rankest form of racist excusism. (Yes, I just invented a new word that fits this conversation.)

Seriously, GFY and don't stop until common sense and decency takes root in your diseased mind.

#136 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 05:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Protestors don't set dumpsters and car dealerships on fire."

Protesters dump tea in Boston Harbor.

Then they tear down the statue of King George.

What the hell happened to right-wingers???

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Are these your heroes?
#132 | POSTED BYMADBOMBER

Are these your villains?
Worthy of extrajudicial execution by the State?
Yes. They are Enemies Of The State, Punishable by Death.

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:25 PM | Reply

Kyle Rittenhouse was a criminal at the time he shot the people he shot. I would never advocate that the police shoot him dead on the spot unless he threatened their safety.

Rittenhouse was a threat to the safety of every person on that street, including the officers, yet he was able to not only walk up to the police fully-armed, he was allowed to leave the scene without even being questioned about what he'd done or even rousing the police's suspicion even though people were shouting that he'd just shot multiple people.

#139 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 05:27 PM | Reply

"Had Ritterhouse been some sort of armed left-wing activist fighting off Klan members and proud boys, you'd be praising his bravery." And you'd be calling for his execution.

Hell no. I'd be "way to send it, badass."

I'm a fan of the BLM people carrying guns. It's easier to work with people who are willing to hang their pink asses out there.

People like you always expect someone else to hang said asses out, so you don't have to.

#140 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:27 PM | Reply

People like you always expect someone else to hang said asses out, so you don't have to.
#140 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

And that's why you have a job.
Maybe go do it?

#141 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:28 PM | Reply

"Hell no. I'd be "way to send it, badass."

That's what you're saying about Ritterhouse too, correct?

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:29 PM | Reply

Mad bomber: their past has NO bearing on this case. No matter what they have done, there is no excuse for a 17 year old kid with all illegal gun to be out there shooting folks for sport. Not even if they were in the act of lighting a car on fire. Vigilantism is no go territory. We have like laws and stuff in this country and that ain't it.

#143 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:29 PM | Reply

"Were their charges capital offenses that warranted their deaths without due process?

Of course not. Police serve neither as judge or jury. They don't hand out sentences. Why would you think they should?

#144 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:31 PM | Reply

"No matter what they have done, there is no excuse for a 17 year old kid with all illegal gun to be out there shooting folks for sport."

Do you have some indication that happened?

#145 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:31 PM | Reply

Snoofy, it will be a tragedy if she isn't charged as an accessory. That's insane.

"You go have fun intimidating the liberal cucks, young man! I'm going to go guard the Starbucks!"

#146 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:32 PM | Reply

Geroge Floyd was a convicted criminal who resisted arrest while on high on meth.

Regardless of what you're trying to imply.

How does it justify the cops killing him?

He was already in custody. Why not arrest him and put him in the cruiser?

No? Suffocate him instead?

You're disgusting.

#147 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 05:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Seriously, GFY and don't stop until common sense and decency takes root in your diseased mind.
#136 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

It all gets to his world view called Voluntaryism.

From the Voluntaryism perspective, anyone who engages in protest already consented to whatever happened next. Everyone got what they deserved; the shooter and the people he shot alike.

Heather Heyer was asking for it too.

People who join the militaty and get sexually assaulted... need I even point out it's a voluntary military?

I kinda wonder if he nods in silent approval about the body they found strung up from a tree outside Fort Hood.

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:33 PM | Reply

Yeah...because Rosenbaum was attacking him.

Running towards someone is not attacking. You can't seem to talk about this without resorting to spin so transparent and desperate it ain't fooling nobody.

A 17 year old boy feels he is being attacked by a 36 year old sex offender ...

Such as this comment. He didn't know anything about Rosenbaum's past. Acting like he did is just dopey emotional manipulation.

I'm a fan of the BLM people carrying guns.

People arming up for a political protest is madness. If you don't see that you're a fool.

#149 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 05:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

145 yes. Or haven't you been watching the news?

A minor, illegally carrying a weapon, who illegally transported it across state lines, "protecting" property he was NOT invited to protect, means that he was doing exactly that. He wanted to start crap and when it started, he panicked. Eff him. He is a piece of trash that deserves to never breathe free air again.

#150 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Police serve neither as judge or jury."

Nearly 1,000 people killed by police every year paint a different picture.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Oh I should add: said minor was also violating a legal curfew at the time.

In other words all of hood actions are to blame for him murdering those people.

#152 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:36 PM | Reply

The kid: "Arrest me I have an AR15 and I just killed someone!"

Cops: "Kid, are you crazy? You are white. Now move along!"

#153 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-28 05:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm a fan of the BLM people carrying guns."

Because it puts people in fear of their lives, which justifies shooting BLM people, like Rittenhouse did.

Like I said. It makes it's own gravy.

#154 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:37 PM | Reply

ABH your first typo was "skittles," and your next typo was "hood."

Is there something you'd like to tell us? ;)

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:38 PM | Reply

It's "good news" that a bunch of guys who don't practice criminal law

Pierce Bainbridge certainly does. It's a team.

It will be well funded, as it should be.

But I don't know how any reasonable person could look at the associated footage and not conclude it was self-defense.

And the Commie pedophile? Well that's just lagniappe...

#156 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 05:39 PM | Reply

This is why Trump will remain president.

Get ready.

#157 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:39 PM | Reply

Anyone wanna place a bet?

#158 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-28 05:39 PM | Reply

Odds ain't looking so good for the Trump Crime Family: www.predictit.org

#159 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-28 05:42 PM | Reply

Anyone wanna place a bet?

#158 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Sure! I will take that bet. Because if I lose you won't be able to collect.

Not unless you come to France. America won't survive it.

#160 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-28 05:42 PM | Reply

Pierce Bainbridge certainly does. It's a team.

No they don't. Pierce Bainbridge practices "complex commercial litigation." The only form of criminal law mentioned on their site is "white collar crime." Kyle's bitch ---- were sticking through an uncollared green t-shirt, so he doesn't fit the bill.

piercebainbridge.com

It will be well funded, as it should be.

Good. Every dollar that goes to these hacks is one less to the Trump campaign.

#161 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 05:43 PM | Reply

Already assassinating the character of the guy who was murdered by the Hitler Youth, and cheering for the Hitler Youth who murdered the two men. That is crap form.

#162 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-28 05:43 PM | Reply

Mao content. Easily. The kid abrogated his self defense claim by being in an area illegally, while conducting activity in direct violation of law. In other words you can't enter the wrong area doing the wrong thing and claim innocence.

That kid is a piece of human excrement. He was looking to kill someone and did it.

#163 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:44 PM | Reply

Every dollar that goes to these hacks is one less to the Trump campaign

No.

It just means we have to dig a little deeper and give more.

For the common good, of course.

#164 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 05:45 PM | Reply

Mao Content is also a piece of human excrement.

#165 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-28 05:46 PM | Reply

"Pierce Bainbridge founder on leave, after an investigation finding that he had borrowed money from an unconventional funding source for his own personal use. That lender, Karish Kapital, filed a lien against Pierce and the firm in late February."

www.law.com

I hope Trumpers enjoy paying off a ------- lawyer's personal debts. They didn't seem to mind being bilked by Bannon.

#166 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 05:46 PM | Reply

Mao Content is also a piece of human excrement.
#165 | POSTED BY HAMBURGLAR

Flattery will get you nowhere with him.

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:47 PM | Reply

#164 So you're abandoning your claim that the hacks interjecting themselves into this tragedy are qualified to practice represent someone on murder charges? Just checking in since you aren't talking about that anymore now that i showed you a link.

#168 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 05:48 PM | Reply

"In other words you can't enter the wrong area doing the wrong thing and claim innocence."

Cops can. For example, Breonna Taylor.
It's illegal to charge them.
That needs to change too.

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:49 PM | Reply

Anyone notice how much Rittenhouse looks like a girl? I wonder if his gender was assigned surgically at birth. I wonder if his love of cops was him doing his level best to "be a man" despite what his chromosomes had in mind.

#170 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:51 PM | Reply

169: that isn't technically true. The process is supposed to flow like this: investigation, determination if they were in the scope of their employment (there with legitimate reason, and operating legitimately), if they were in the scope of their employment the investigation ends. If they were determined to not be acting within the scope of their employment, they can absolutely be charged.

#171 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 05:53 PM | Reply

#171 Yes I'm aware.
What you describe is what needs to change.
"Just following orders" isn't supposed to be an excuse. I'm sure you can agree with that.

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 05:55 PM | Reply

Snoofy: Absolutely. I would love to see much more civilian oversight.

The problem is, like look at this case. The protests kicked off over a clean shoot. The officer arrived on a violent scene, tussled with the guy. He wasn't actually involved in the fight, but the officer needs to determine who was. The guy doesn't want to stay because he has warrants and his kids in the car. They tussle, they break the guy starts walking.

The police officers follows him for a long time issuing lawful verbal commands to stop. He doesn't shoot him until they go all the way around the car, the suspect whips open the door and reaches in..... where a knife happens to be. Clean. Even if the knife wasn't there, case law as determined in numerous court cases says officers can legitimately be in fear of aggression from suspects who disobey lawful orders.... lawful being operative.... and then make furtive movements against those lawful orders b there are literally hundreds of cases confirming this.

The officer probably should have ran and tackled him before he got to the car, but the suspect should also have stopped ages before he got to the car.

That's all to say, the public and their mob mentality of not having all the facts before they pass judgment don't always know what's legal and ethical for the police to actually do. So these protests can be about nothing. Or, in the case of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, can be really legitimate protests against actual police abuse.

#173 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:03 PM | Reply

Protesters dump tea in Boston Harbor. Then they tear down the statue of King George

Yes. And they did so as a pretext to what became a very real and very violent revolution that they were prepared to fight and win. And they did.

The Soyboy Set is simply hunkering together in police-free urban areas ceded to them by local leftist leadership where they get to play lawless, destructive revolutionary with no repercussions. Unfortunately, that doesn't play well elsewhere, as they're finding out.

As alluded to upthread, if you want to protest within the confines of lawful behaviour, good on you. But once you cross the line into lawlessness and start getting offed by 17 year olds, then it looks really silly to start whinging for the application of same criminal justice system you think you want to "overthrow".

Peoples' Revolutions need to be fuelled by people--not SK8RBois and Zack de la Rocha lyrics.

And right now, the people are just shooting you dead when you come into their neighborhoods to do violent revolutionary stuff.

#174 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 06:08 PM | Reply

ABH

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985), is a civil case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that, under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."[1]

It was found that use of deadly force to prevent escape is an unreasonable seizure under the Fourth Amendment, in the absence of probable cause that the fleeing suspect posed a physical danger.[2]:563"7

en.wikipedia.org

The police had NO legal justification for shooting Jacob Blake according to the SCOTUS. He was not posing any threat to the three officers, nor to all the people who were standing close by watching, none of them who showed any fear for what they watched him do.

#175 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 06:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

175. You are applying the wrong case law. He didn't shoot to prevent his escape. He shout him because he reasonably believed he went to the car to retrieve a weapon.

#176 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:13 PM | Reply

So you're abandoning your claim

You're obtuse.

There is a legal team---which includes Woods, Pierce, and other local and national lawyers, who will represent him.

#177 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 06:17 PM | Reply

He didn't shoot to prevent his escape. He shout him because he reasonably believed he went to the car to retrieve a weapon.

How could any reasonable person come to that conclusion when he didn't fight the police in the first place? His CHILDREN were in the car. He was going to LEAVE. He is alive and will be able to articulate exactly why he did what he did hopefully upon his recovery. The police have not charged him with any crime other than his outstanding warrant - though I'm sure that could change in the future should the evidence warrant it.

At the point of the shooting, the officer was pursuing him, period. You're assuming facts not in evidence. The knife was on the floorboard of the vehicle and the officer could not see it thorough Blake's body. You are trying to create facts that did not exist in real time. According to the law, NOTHING that Blake had done up to the moment he was shot 7 times was a threat to the officers or the public's safety.

These are simply the facts as we know them know. If they change, then I will change how I see them as well.

#178 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 06:19 PM | Reply

Of course he was pursuing him and issuing lawful orders to stop. The police officer needed to ascertain the scene. Which means legally detaining individuals in order to conduct his immediate investigation.

His pursuit and orders to stop were completely legal and justified. That he opened his car door and reached in, gives the officer reasonable suspicion to assume the suspect is reaching for a weapon. Period

Absent of other information, It's a clean shoot. You may not like it and think he should have been allowed to just walk away, but that doesn't make it correct.

#179 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:22 PM | Reply

That he opened his car door and reached in, gives the officer reasonable suspicion to assume the suspect is reaching for a weapon. Period

No it doesn't. We'll have to agree to disagree. If you want to assume, then you do not have the law on your side. It's UNreasonable to think that someone who wrestled away from police who were trying to tase him, and attempted to enter his own vehicle in which 3 young children were screaming their heads off was then attempting to retrieve and attack armed officers - who he retreated from - with a knife, knowing full well that they had guns with which to shoot him and place his children in the line of fire.

Whether you realize it or not, your scenario is the same racist justification that whites always use with blacks when cops encounter white suspects that are armed with actual weapons and they do not open fire on them. Your creation of a scenario that justifies the use of deadly force is the same one always used against what whites always fear that blacks will do to them.

Funny, they never fear that whites in similar situations will do the same things.

#180 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 06:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

180. You are wrong. Your knowledge of the law is not as great as you think it is. Like completely wrong. I'm sorry because it looks like we are in complete agreement about this kid killing the protestors, but you are required to stop when police officers issue lawful commands to stop, and when people reach for things furtively.... and his reaching in was furtive... case law shows the officer can reasonably be in fear for his life.

If the guy had turned and gone kiester first into the car with his hands visible at all times? He would not have been justified. But he didn't do that.

#181 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:33 PM | Reply

I agree there is far too much assumption of violence against African Americans, especially men. There is a good bit inherent racism in the system. But that's not the discussion we're having.

#182 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:34 PM | Reply

"The protests kicked off over a clean shoot."

The protest kicked off over what the law has decided is a clean kill.

And not just him.

Breonna Taylor was a clean kill too.

And even when they do press charges which I'd say is a single digit percentage of the killing, how often do the charges stick? I'd say the conviction rate is also a single digit percentage.

This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but stage is set by the 1,000 people killed a year by police. You even called this one "tragic." People want these kinds of tragedies to end. Instead, they're a daily occurrence.

And it really doesn't help end the tragedies when you justify them.

He was simply not a credible threat to the police. Not credible enough to get shot in the back eight times, anyway.

#183 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:34 PM | Reply

You may not like it and think he should have been allowed to just walk away, but that doesn't make it correct.

No one said that he should be allowed to walk away. What he wasn't given was his 4th Amendment rights as the SCOTUS said. Why do you think that they limit the amount and type of force that LEO can use to pursue a fleeing suspect?

Let's be clear, until the moment a suspect turns and faces an officer with a weapon and intent to harm either the cop or others around him, the police are not allowed to use lethal force. It is the law, it's not debatable as you're trying to do. What probable cause did the officer have that Blake was in the process of using deadly force against him when his back was turned to the officer?

The officer could have taken 2 steps back while keeping his weapon trained on Blake and THEN determined his intentions. That is what a reasonable person should have done when they have training and a lethal weapon already aimed at the suspect. The officer does not have to assume anything, he can safely access the situation, not react out of fear and assumptions.

#184 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 06:34 PM | Reply

There is a good bit inherent racism in the system. But that's not the discussion we're having.
#182 | POSTED BY ABH

Sure it is.
They're part and parcel of the same "tragedy."

#185 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"officers can legitimately be in fear of aggression from suspects who disobey lawful orders."

That's different from fear of your life.

And the excuses you're making mean a person can't simply walk away without cleanly getting shot in the back.

You should stop making those kinds of excuses.

Cops choose to put their lives on the line, right? Yet they kill 20x more often than they get killed. That ratio seems about right to you? Give me a break.

It's a killing force, not a protective force. The only ones they protect are themselves.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The police officers follows him for a long time issuing lawful verbal commands to stop."

Did he say "stop or I'll shoot?"

#187 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:40 PM | Reply

I completely disagree. The law uses the reasonable person standard. There have been many hashings of what a reasonable police officer would do when a suspect ordered to freeze and show his hands and not only doesn't, but furtively reaches for things. While you may not believe the officer is justified, that's fine. But officers aren't required by law to retreat. And case after case of very similar circumstances have determined officers CAN defend themselves in that situation.

I don't want to turn attention on this thread away from rittenhouse being an oxygen thief. I shouldn't have brought it up.

#188 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:40 PM | Reply

No. Suspects flee you can't shoot. Suspect flees and furtively reaches in their pocket.... or car door, And etc. and they can. Try to remember the other half of the facts

#189 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:41 PM | Reply

No. Suspects flee you can't shoot. Suspect flees and furtively reaches in their pocket.... or car door, And etc. and they can. Try to remember the other half of the facts

#190 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:41 PM | Reply

187. I don't know what he said, but he certainly gave a great deal of commands that went totally ignored.

#191 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:43 PM | Reply

"He shout him because he reasonably believed he went to the car to retrieve a weapon."

Hands are deadly weapons too. Or, he could have had a gun in his waistband which the officers couldn't see because his back was turned. You're just reciting the script without thinking about the words.

The rationale you're advancing is that cops can shoot a non-compliant person at any time.

#192 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

right now, the people are just shooting you dead when you come into their neighborhoods

This wasn't Kyle Rittenhouse's neighborhood, genius.

#193 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 06:46 PM | Reply

"The law uses the reasonable person standard."

The words don't make it true.

Reasonable people don't kill anyone over the course of their life.

Reasonable people also don't have the authority to order other people around.

Reasonable people don't shoot someone in the back when they are fleeing an altercation by getting into their car.

Nothing about what happened here was reasonable.

You should take a moment to acknowledge that.

#194 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:47 PM | Reply

Idon't know what he said, but he certainly gave a great deal of commands that went totally ignored.
#191 | POSTED BY ABH

It doesn't sound like you think it matters what he said either way.

#195 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:48 PM | Reply

The law does not, And never has in spite of the movies.... considered hands deadly weapons by default. If you use them to choke, out other wise engage in deadly content, yes. But a slug fest, even between a cop and suspect isn't deadly force. Tech for the gun, different story.

#196 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:48 PM | Reply

195. Of course it matters. But by training an officer would be saying stop, let me see your hands over and over. It's quite telling that he didn't shoot him over the dozens of feet he took, but did when he suddenly reached into the car.

Using whatever argument your trying to push he could have been telling the words to the Beatles white album, but I think it's reasonable to assume "stop!" Was said more than once.

#197 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:51 PM | Reply

"you are required to stop when police officers issue lawful commands to stop"

Or what?
They can shoot, correct?

Do you think 1,000 people killed by police every year is a success, like Mao and MadBomber, or do you think it's a sign that the police aren't serving their communities all that well, and are in fact making people less trusting of the police, and more likely to believe there's a reasonable chance the police will kill them like George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Tamir Rice?

#198 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:51 PM | Reply

"Tech for the gun, different story."

There was no gun.
But that doesn't change your story.
Hmmm.

#199 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:52 PM | Reply

I don't know what he said, but he certainly gave a great deal of commands that went totally ignored.

And ignoring police commands is not a capital offense and certainly not one deserving of an attempted summary execution at point blank range. Why have laws if they can be discarded for the judgment of a frightened gun wielding officer? The officer violated Blakes 4th Amendment rights and the SCOTUS ruling says so.

Reasonable also dictates that any assessment of the circumstances takes into account the presence of 3 young children whom the officer put into the line of fire. What if after Blake was shot his body did a spasmic reaction backward into the cop and he ended up putting shots into the back seat? To me this is reckless endangerment and the officer should be charged. And also on the reasonable standard, the other two officers DID NOT FIRE! This places the actions of the shooter in further dispute.

There is no fact pattern that justifies shooting Blake in the back at point blank range knowing what we know so far. Your conjectures are excuses, not facts. Blake did not reach for anything but for the door release of his car and last I checked that is not a weapon.

#200 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 06:54 PM | Reply

I think it's reasonable to assume "stop!" Was said more than once.
#197 | POSTED BY ABH

I don't think anything is a reasonable expectation anymore when it comes to police.

How about the drunk driver that got gunned down merely for standing up? You've seen that one I'm sure. Officer approaches a flipped truck with his weapon trained, and shoots the guy the moment he stands up.

That's what we can reasonably expect from the police.

And we can also reasonably expect the law doesn't view that as murder. Which it didn't.

And that's why there are protests.

#201 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 06:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No. If you are just walking, hands visible and walking away, physical detention is authorized. Disobey commands to Keep your hands visible and make furtive movements and you escalate the situation. The officer didn't, the suspect did.

Why are you so quick to give a pass to a guy ignoring the lawful and justified orders from the officers.

Before you get all snippy, no, ignoring orders isn't NECESSARILY a blank check for cops to kill people. But the orders were lawful... the officer had legal reason to be there, reasonable suspicion he was one of the suspects he was looking for (he wasn't, from what I understand there was a fight and the suspect broke it up) but the officer doesn't know that.

He likely should have run at and tackled him and placed him in cuffs. But he tried to resolve it peacefully by just getting him to stop. Right up until he reached furtively in the car..... where a knife was. He didn't try to sit down into the car. Watch the video. He reached in. There is a difference.

#202 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:58 PM | Reply

201. Actually I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't seen that one. I will have to look it up.

#203 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 06:59 PM | Reply

Right up until he reached furtively in the car..... where a knife was. He didn't try to sit down into the car. Watch the video. He reached in. There is a difference.

Good lord. This conversation is over. Now you've gone into Tamir Rice territory. There wasn't 2 seconds between the door opening and the cop's dumping 7 in his back. And the cop was grabbing his shirt at the same time which obviously has an influence on anyone's balance. He COULDN'T sit down in the car when he was being tugged from behind, imo.

You're gone straight into precognition at this point. You ignore that the police neither knew of nor could see any knife at the moment the shooting took place. The officer cannot see through Blake's body. You are inventing justification for an unjust shooting.

Have a good evening, I'm done.

#204 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 07:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

One more question: Is it physically possible to threaten a police officer with a knife when your back is turned toward them?

Yes or no. Physical threat is the threshold for police use of lethal force. Was this threshold actually met (and I do not mean conjectures as to what anyone might do once they actually turn back toward the police because that is not what happened in this case)?

#205 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 07:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No problem. Have a great night. When you learn a bit more about the law, come on back.

#206 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 07:14 PM | Reply

#205 100% yes. There is a book called 21 feet. That shows the danger distance for someone with a knife is 21 feet. Even with his back turned, he usss a hell of a lot closer than 21 feet.

en.m.wikipedia.org

#207 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 07:17 PM | Reply

What is "the law" when it comes to police use of lethal force in Wisconsin? Sounds like you know it. Lay it on me.

#208 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 07:18 PM | Reply

Oh ----, a Wikipedia article. This guy came to play.

#209 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 07:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's wiki article that describes police knife training. Got anything better?

#210 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 07:21 PM | Reply

Well since you accused someone of not knowing the law, i assumed that meant you knew it, and that you could tell me what it was. If that assumption was wrong, then my bad.

#211 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 07:24 PM | Reply

I do, actually. Quite well. But training in regards to knives and their threat range has nothing to do with "the law"

#212 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 07:25 PM | Reply

ABH I'm not that far from seeing it your way. When someone refuses to comply it's going to get escalated. Thus just got escalated too fast and without warning.

But on the bigger issue, it wasn't just this incident that spurs protest. It's all the other people who have died at the hands of police for things like a broken tail light. It's Philando Castile and that kid they injected with Ketamine.

The cops are simply out of control.

And as you know they are heavily infiltrated by racists, who use their qualified immunity with the express intent of harassing blacks.

This particular tree is just one of many in the forest. The forest needs to be clear cut, there's really no other way at this point.

#213 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I can't disagree with any of that. Desperate people do desperate things to relieve the stress and pressure of what they are dealing with. I'm not black, I have no idea what they go through in life, but I try to understand. I certainly don't think their stories of racism are some mass delusion. It's true and it happens, and it shouldn't.

#214 | Posted by ABH at 2020-08-28 07:31 PM | Reply

"Disobey commands to Keep your hands visible and make furtive movements and you escalate the situation. The officer didn't, the suspect did."

Fear of an unseen weapon shouldn't escalate to deadly force.

Because if it does, it's okay to gun down a suspect as they reach into the glove box for their registration and proof of insurance, because you feared they were going for a gun.

#215 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

ABH,

I know the law - and cite it - and you don't. Tenn. v. Garner is the law, your unsubstantiated opinions aren't. Blake violated no law by having a knife on the floorboard or inside his vehicle. NO LAW. Unless, until he wielded the knife against the officers, his possession of it was wholly legal. 21 feet is when FACING a knife wielding person, not when their back is to you and it's based upon optimum proficiency of the person with the knife, factors not in evidence at this point.

You are conflating disparate circumstances to invent a criminal act that justifies the deadly response by only one of the 3 officers at the scene. The very fact that the other officer standing right next to the shooter did not fire one shot calls into question whether the other officer was under an imminent threat at the time he discharged his weapon.

You have done nothing but invent woulda coulda shoulda scenarios and I've stated facts as we know them. You do not know why the officer fired because no statements have been released. Go back and look at the video and it is between 2 and 3 seconds of the door opening and the discharge of his weapon. Humans are imperfect creatures yet you assign superhuman reactive abilities to this officer for which zero evidence exists that he had.

#216 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 07:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Your creation of a scenario that justifies the use of deadly force is the same one always used against what whites always fear that blacks will do to them.
Funny, they never fear that whites in similar situations will do the same things.

Newsworthy Flag!

#216 | Posted by Daniel_Shaver at 2020-08-28 07:35 PM | Reply

#217 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-28 07:34 PM | Reply

"One more question: Is it physically possible to threaten a police officer with a knife when your back is turned toward them?"

I'm going with "No" but ABH is sure the answer is "Yes."

ABH also doesn't even need to see the knife to be threatened.

Because it could reasonably be a gun.

The Second Amendment has turned the freedom to own a gun into a reasonable suspicion that anyone might have a gun, which means police are always in reasonable fear of their life.

The Second Amendment justifies systemic racial oppression.

Thanks, Second Amendment!

#218 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You do not know why the officer fired because no statements have been released."

As best I can tell there is no police report on this incident.

That tells me the police are still finding a way to justify the kill.

#219 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:38 PM | Reply

Because if it does, it's okay to gun down a suspect as they reach into the glove box for their registration and proof of insurance, because you feared they were going for a gun.

That's already happened. And the shooting officer ordered the driver to produce his driver's license and registration, then when the driver reached to comply, the officer began firing at him.

So the argument about complying with orders (often contradictory orders likely given on purpose to justify the use of deadly force against suspects) also leads to police shootings - remember Philando Castile?

This is why I'm fairly certain that Jacob was in the process of fleeing. He knew that he'd have to deal with the police later, but not under the barrels of guns and tasers if he were able to get away along with his children. Now THAT is conjecture on my part, but at least I admit it. I don't claim that I can read his mind with absolute certainty.

#220 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 07:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"reasonable suspicion he was one of the suspects he was looking for (he wasn't, from what I understand there was a fight and the suspect broke it up) but the officer doesn't know that."

Whereas the same police force let Rittenhouse walk despite being told he's the shooter.

The things the officers didn't know were handled very differently.

White guy walks, black guy gets gunned down.

Rational people call that racism.

#221 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So the argument about complying with orders (often contradictory orders likely given on purpose to justify the use of deadly force against suspects) also leads to police shootings - rememberPhilando Castile?"

Another clean shoot, right ABH?

#222 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:45 PM | Reply

100% yes. There is a book called 21 feet.

100% NO. What a dishonest person you are. Did you bother to read your own link? 21 feet is an exercise in self defense, not a live action scenario. It's based on the person being attacked having their back to a knife wielding attacker and then having to unholster their gun as the suspect approaches them - and whether or not they successfully shoot them before they reach within 1.5 feet of the gunman, thus assuming that they could then attack him.

The officer had his weapon drawn and trained on Blake as he tugged on his shirt from behind, obviously. Nothing about the facts of this action are analogous to the exercise. At the time of the shooting Blake was not an imminent threat to the officer and I trust that a reasonable jury will see this incident the same way that most people do if they view Blake's actions as something far short of deserving an attempted point-blank execution.

#223 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 07:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

201. Actually I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't seen that one. I will have to look it up.
#203 | POSTED BY ABH

The guy killed was white, maybe that's why.

Guy pops his head up and starts crawling out from his rolled truck, and is instantly gunned down.

This was not murder, according to the law whose skirts you hide behind.

Here, see for yourself.
www.youtube.com

#224 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-28 07:55 PM | Reply

The Second Amendment justifies systemic racial oppression.

That was one of the reasons it was written Snoofy.

"The Second Amendment was created specifically to arm white settlers against runaway slaves, enslaved African people, as well as to kill native people on the frontier," Estes said.

Fast forward to the Reconstruction Era after the Civil War, Estes said, and you see the emergence of the Ku Klux Klan, a white vigilante group that used the Second Amendment to terrorize Black Americans. Decades later, during the Jim Crow era, armed citizens often attacked Black Americans in Sundown Towns " referring to all-white municipalities or neighborhoods across the country " with little to no recourse from law enforcement.

And look at the violence in "border towns" " white majority settlements ringing Native American reservations " where white vigilantes have maimed and murdered Indigenous peoples for generations. Law enforcement has often looked the other way.

"These white vigilantes today don't misinterpret history," Estes said. "They're actually upholding the kind of the original intent of the Second Amendment."

What's happening now, he added, is "an intensification of that kind of citizen policing" in response to a growing tide of Black Lives Matter and anti-fascist organizing.

www.huffpost.com

This is nothing more than the continuation of a 400 year struggle to be considered equal citizens under the Constitution of the United States. And the fight will continue until the beatings stop once and for all.

#225 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 07:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The Second Amendment was created specifically to arm white settlers against runaway slaves, enslaved African people, as well as to kill native people on the frontier," Estes said.

Bul*s**t.

The right to keep and bear arms was a common law right brought over from England. The Second Amendment was proposed and ratified to prevent a tyrannical government from disarming the militia, the primary means of national defense in the absence of a standing army. The founders were aware that tyrants had effectively abolished militias by simply taking away their arms. That's why the right was given to the people rather than the militia.

That slavery may have played a secondary role in support of ratification does not mean the amendment was specifically for that purpose.

#226 | Posted by et_al at 2020-08-28 08:51 PM | Reply

... I think it's reasonable to assume "stop!" Was said more than once.

After Tamir Rice and the lack of punishment for his killer, I would never make an assumption that cops said or did the right things before using deadly force.

#227 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I see the word being used in connotation, not denotation, but I do see where you are coming from.

Common sense already dictates that the 2nd Amendment had multiple purposes, the preamble makes that clear. I see Estes using the descriptive as a means of defining only the narrow category he was speaking to.

Estes was speaking to its usage, not its origins.

#228 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-08-28 08:59 PM | Reply

"DROP THE KNIFE" vs Blake's testimony and witnesses and video and the police bodycam audio.

#226 - the English enslaved their white neighbors, the colonists adopted this practice, thus police and the second amendment.

#229 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-08-28 08:59 PM | Reply

I would never make an assumption that cops said or did the right things before using deadly force."

Fair enough. Cops are not above lying.

But we have over 10 million arrests a year.

That's an average of almost 30K a day.

We seem to focus on 15 or so a year.

#230 | Posted by eberly at 2020-08-28 09:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

But we have over 10 million arrests a year.
That's an average of almost 30K a day.
We seem to focus on 15 or so a year.
#230 | POSTED BY EBERLY

If people would just put away their camera phones and stop recording the actions of the police, these "15 or so" incidents would disappear too.

Thanks Rodney King!

#231 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-28 09:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We seem to focus on 15 or so a year.

Why aren't we focusing on the people who DIDN'T die from coronavirus yesterday?

#232 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 10:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#232

Where did that come from, rcade?

#233 | Posted by willowby at 2020-08-28 10:44 PM | Reply

To whom it may concern;

Don't martyr yourself, GA ain't gonna be one of the 72 virgins

#234 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-28 10:53 PM | Reply

232

I don't know.

But we don't.

#235 | Posted by eberly at 2020-08-28 10:58 PM | Reply

To whom it may concern;
Don't martyr yourself, GA ain't gonna be one of the 72 virgins

#234 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ AT 2020-08-28 10:53 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

LOL naw it makes no difference

#236 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-28 11:02 PM | Reply

*Headdesk*

#237 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-28 11:02 PM | Reply

I do, actually. Quite well.

Weird. I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate that, rather than just talk about how smart you are. Guess i'll be waiting quite a while.

#238 | Posted by JOE at 2020-08-28 11:09 PM | Reply

the zombie left and inciting media of course keep saying there is no reason kyle would have been there with a firearm if his intent was not to commit murder. what do they say regarding at least three of the sign less people in that original group at the gas station and one more whose bicep was atomized having guns? i mean the express intent of the people there was to burn loot and destroy and some of them said kill white people. so they gathered with intent to destroy the city since of course beating, robbing and destroying private property is the answer to a corrupt systemically racist government. intent to riot, intent to commit crimes, armed with firearms - all beyond reproach. boy scout ky;e present on record stating his intent was to protect property and help people with his medical kit with firearm is libeled to have only intended to murder or he wouldn't have been there.

of course we know everything the media says is not just a law but libeling, slanderous, seditious inciting of the overthrow of government and it's futile to break apart every one of their lies, and futile to reeducate those who in willful ignorance accept and act on those lies, but nonetheless i must at times expound on these egregious hypocrisies if for no other reason than to add into the public consciousness (even if it is in a containment zone) a voice of logic and reason.

this case will be dropped in a month like it should and you will still be burnin, lootin, and attempting murder of innocent people trying to defend their way of life.

stop burning apartments democrats!

other illogical clownworld items to discuss related to this...

so if i wear provocative clothing it is ok to rape me?

imaginary borders mean something now to leftists?

man who go to bed with itchy butt wake up with stinky fingah

#239 | Posted by mutant at 2020-08-29 08:47 AM | Reply

let's also not forget to have discussion of the black hero who performed a hollywoodesque flying kick to rittenhouse's head initially after he tripped/was pushed as he was fleeing the initial melee. clearly this hero of the BLM protesting had a part in stopping this nazi russian mass shooter. we need him to come out of hiding an give his heroic story.

afterall , it could have been him that was murdered in this premeditated cold blooded mass shooting event.

#240 | Posted by mutant at 2020-08-29 08:57 AM | Reply

mutant is really pushing for a conjugal with his murderous nazi hero.

#241 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 09:02 AM | Reply

Is Mutant also a white supremacist domestic terrorist, like the boy who murdered 2 people in Kenosha?

#242 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-29 09:16 AM | Reply

Is Mutant also a white supremacist domestic terrorist, like the boy who murdered 2 people in Kenosha?

#242 | POSTED BY HAMBURGLAR

Great. You said "white supremacist".

Now you have triggered "it".

#243 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 09:53 AM | Reply

Here is the latest info.

youtu.be

#244 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 11:13 AM | Reply

Here is the latest info propaganda from the defense team.
youtu.be

#244 | POSTED BY KARABEKIAN

FTFY for the sake of accuracy.

#245 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 11:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why do you think so?

#246 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 11:32 AM | Reply

What do the real lawyers here think? M8 is thinking like a professional. His ideologies don't seem cloud his legal analysis.
I haven't seen LOC weigh in, but maybe I missed it. I don't know if ROC is around, anymore.

#247 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 11:36 AM | Reply

I mean LCL.

#248 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 11:36 AM | Reply

Why aren't we focusing on the people who DIDN'T die from coronavirus yesterday?

#232 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2020-08-28 10:38 PM

Maybe because you repeatedly put the death toll numbers as all BOLD headlines at the top of the front page.

#249 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 12:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#247

I am "merely" a Real Estate lawyer and Moder8 defends idiots like Rittenhouse for a living, I would defer to his expertise, what I remember of these issues faded after I passed the Bar many years ago.

#250 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 12:03 PM | Reply

250. That's cool. You're not a kook. It's refreshing.

#251 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 12:36 PM | Reply

Why do you think so?

#246 | POSTED BY KARABEKIAN

A black teenager would have never been able to get away. Alive.

Also. To address your propaganda. If a shop owner asked this teenager to bring an AR15 to guard his shop them that shop owner is also criminally liable.

#252 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 01:20 PM | Reply

How is that propaganda?

#253 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 01:26 PM | Reply

How is that propaganda?

#253 | POSTED BY KARABEKIAN

It's attempt to distract from the severity of the crime and the unequal application of the law.

By pretending it was somehow how justifiable.

#254 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#254

Sorry to break this to you, but I seem to remember from law school that everyone is entitled to a defense, no matter how much we may disagree with it.

#255 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sorry to break this to you, but I seem to remember from law school that everyone is entitled to a defense, no matter how much we may disagree with it.

#255 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER AT 2020-08-29 01:47 PM | FLAG:

That's nice. Save it for the judge.

Pretending you are a news channel news and spreading rumors in attempt to taint any potential jury is not a defense most are "entitled" to.

#256 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 01:52 PM | Reply

#256 If your beef is with Tim Pool, he doesn't pretend to be news. He's a news analyst who explicitly shows his viewers the sources he uses. He's considered top notch pretty much across the board, and his career bona fides are impeccable. Why is the analysis of news and objectively considering facts problematic? It seems you would want to get to the truth before passing judgement.

#257 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 02:00 PM | Reply

#255 well that's been said many times over the last couple days.

And not to make light of anything
But I am reminded of Felix Unger with Oscar Madison on the witness stand.

"Yoouuu make me sick"

You older folks may remember that,classic

#258 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-29 02:02 PM | Reply

Pretending you are a news channel news and spreading rumors in attempt to taint any potential jury is not a defense most are "entitled" to.

#256 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2020-08-29 01:52 PM

But sadly Fox (who started this execrable trend), CNN, MSNBC etc. all do it daily in their never ending search for clicks and eyeballs.

#259 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 02:07 PM | Reply

Sorry to break this to you, but I seem to remember from law school that everyone is entitled to a defense, no matter how much we may disagree with it.
#255 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

Sorry to break this to you, but that's just not the way the world works.

I guess they don't acknowledge the existence of people like Breonna Taylor in law school.

Maybe that's part of the problem.

Can't really fault you for not fighting injustices you aren't aware of.

#260 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 02:10 PM | Reply

But sadly Fox (who started this execrable trend), CNN, MSNBC etc. all do it daily in their never ending search for clicks and eyeballs.

#259 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

So you agree.

It was propaganda.

#261 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 02:16 PM | Reply

#260 no no the cops need an adequate defense too

#259
Throw away your TV
Move to the country
Try to find Jesus
And build yourself a home

J Prine

#262 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-29 02:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"there is no reason kyle would have been there with a firearm if his intent was not to commit murder."

What's your angle here.
Was he hunting deer?

#263 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 02:23 PM | Reply

"#260 no no the cops need an adequate defense too"

Does that extend to PolizeiJugend like Rittenhouse?

He knew the risks when he signed up.

#264 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 02:25 PM | Reply

Sounds like his mom is Ma Barker

#265 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-29 02:26 PM | Reply

#264 was just saying every ---- ball is accorded adequate defense.

Kinda a cool freedom thing

#266 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-29 02:28 PM | Reply

After that Crucify the bastard at townhall. I'll bring the hammer and nails.

#267 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-29 02:30 PM | Reply

So you agree.
It was propaganda.

#261 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2020-08-29 02:16 PM

The "info from the defense team", no, how the commentator spun it, absolutely.

And from your response I take it you also agree that the pundits across the political spectrum on TV and the internet are all spewing their own propaganda.

#268 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 02:34 PM | Reply

The right to keep and bear arms was a common law right brought over from England.
#226 | POSTED BYET_AL

So was the right to keep slaves, dummy.

"That slavery may have played a secondary role in support of ratification does not mean the amendment was specifically for that purpose."

Actually it means exactly that.

And as for your nonsense about what's primary and what's secondary,

How many times have guns successfully protected us from a tyrannical government?

Four times: Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy.

How many times have guns been used to maintain the tyranny of slavery? Let's just stipulate it's "more than four."

You're an insufferable egotistical liar, Et_Al.

#269 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 02:34 PM | Reply

Kinda a cool freedom thing

#266 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ AT 2020-08-29 02:28 PM

It's called a constitutional right, so you are correct.

#270 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 02:35 PM | Reply

#269

I can't believe you just attempted to justify the assassination of 4 US Presidents.

Wow.

#271 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 02:38 PM | Reply

"#264 was just saying every ---- ball is accorded adequate defense."

Also not true.

In fact, when the Constitution was drafted, all that meant was you were permitted to have a lawyer, provided you could afford one. It's to prevent our justice system from turning into a Star Chamber.

The thing where a lawyer will be provided for you if you can't afford one, that was never the Founders intent, and it was certainly not the case in their time.

That came along much later.

Finally, the defense provided by a public defender is often far from "adequate." Unless of course you agree with the jurisprudence that your PD can sleep through your case and that is considered "adequate."

Lawyers and right-wing propagandists like to lie about the strengths of our legal protections. Don't be like them.

#272 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 02:44 PM | Reply

I can't believe you just attempted to justify the assassination of 4 US Presidents.
Wow.
#271 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

Go pee your pants at someone else, clown.

You can't handle the truth of what it looks like when the Second Amendment defends us from tyranny.

Not my problem.

#273 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 02:46 PM | Reply

Finally, the defense provided by a public defender is often far from "adequate." Unless of course you agree with the jurisprudence that your PD can sleep through your case and that is considered "adequate."

I will let our resident Public Defender, Moder8, defend himself if he so chooses.

#274 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 02:57 PM | Reply

You can't handle the truth of what it looks like when the Second Amendment defends us from tyranny.
Not my problem.

#273 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 02:46 PM

Considering you just doubled down, it is very much your problem.

#275 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 02:59 PM | Reply

Specifically Lincoln, who emancipated property and offered no compensation, how can you deny that he acted as a tyrant?

Run along now child.

#276 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 03:02 PM | Reply

#276

So now, in an attempt to avoid the implications of your prior statements, you are arguing that the emancipation of the slaves was a tyrannical act?

Keep digging, it's fascinating watching you bury yourself.

#277 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 03:06 PM | Reply

Please enlighten us on the tyrannical acts that justified the assassinations of Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy in your mind.

#278 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 03:08 PM | Reply

LCL. Forget it. He thinks he's Socrates.

#279 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-29 03:09 PM | Reply

"you are arguing that the emancipation of the slaves was a tyrannical act?"

Well, the Second Amendment hands the judgment call of what's tyranny and what's not over to the shooter.
And if it is tyranny, you're allowed to shoot. Encouraged to, even.
I'm a little surprised it's only played out the way the Founders intended four times.

But there's no point in shooting me. I'm just the messenger. It's a message you seem incapable of understanding, but that's another story.

#280 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 03:36 PM | Reply

Please enlighten us on the tyrannical acts that justified the assassinations of Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy in your mind.
#278 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

Beats me.
I'm not a historian.
All I know is they are men who used their Second Amendment rights in the exact way the Founders intended.

I do know that Charles Guiteau would probably be considered criminally insane by today's standards.
But even an insane person have the right to own guns and fight tyranny, thanks to Republicans like you and RightOCenter.

#281 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 03:39 PM | Reply

pundits across the political spectrum on TV and the internet are all spewing their own propaganda.

#268 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

Ok. Agreed. Nothing counts until it enters the courts as evidence. It's all show and everyone is scrambling for "position" in the ongoing ideological war. I get it.

But the videos don't lie. This kid has a lot to answer for. As does anyone who aided and abetted in those crimes that night. And why he was there in the first place is right up there at the top of what he needs to answer for. So I am sure it will be a hot topic for debate.

Like why the Zimmerman thought it was ok to be out in the streets stalking humans with a gun.

#282 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-29 04:40 PM | Reply

#276 When I made similar arguments a while back. You called me a "walking talking Confederate propaganda machine", now you're using my arguments in another context,WTF?

#283 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 05:55 PM | Reply

One could say the entire civil war was a fight against tyranny,and a use of the second amendment,as intended,by your reasoning.

#284 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 06:00 PM | Reply

Based on video I've seen, Rittenhouse probably has a solid self-defense claim for his actions at the moment(s) he pulled the trigger. I don't know enough about criminal law or precedent to know whether his motives and actions prior to the shootings will be admissible in court. At the very least, it was reckless for him to take a rifle to a protest scene 20+ miles from his home. He was clearly looking for trouble, and he found it. But did he intend to kill in an unlawful manner?

#285 | Posted by cbob at 2020-08-29 06:04 PM | Reply

#276 When I made similar arguments a while back. You called me a "walking talking Confederate propaganda machine",

"Similar arguments"

#286 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 06:04 PM | Reply

Are you a walking talking Confederate propaganda machine? Do you believe half the crap you post or are you just another poser too?

I'm thinking big time lying poser myself.

#287 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 06:11 PM | Reply

Are you a walking talking Confederate propaganda machine? Do you believe half the crap you post or are you just another poser too?

I'm thinking big time lying poser myself.

#287 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 06:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're the one "effete poser" as your handle, lol.

If I had to guess, I'd say Snoofy is taking a contrary position for the sake of argument. Wouldn't be the first time.

You guys are probably not as far apart as you think.

#288 | Posted by cbob at 2020-08-29 06:22 PM | Reply

So he's, effeteposer lite? I like it. That's sincere flattery,he's copying me.LOL!

#289 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 06:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

A criminal prosecution and defense for what factually can be proven or not proven is one thing.

The DR is not a legal site. It is where lay people can come and express their opinions and impressions. Political and social viewpoints are fine and well. We can enjoy arguing about them all we want. But let us not conflate them with an actual legal analysis based on specific facts.

In post #2 when I posit the possibility that there is a legitimate self defense issue, I made the mistake of making a strictly legal observation in a forum not set up for properly considering it.

#290 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-08-29 06:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We liberals waste so much time arguing among one another. I wish more of us could stay focused on the big picture and cast aside petty differences.

Trump has to go. He is toxic to America, to democracy, to peace. But voting him out is just the start.

Next we have to develop a basic consensus. Find a way we can express our commonality.

We are never going to agree on everything, and that's ok. In fact, that's America, and it's good. But we have to build bridges. Some kind of organized, intentional conversation across America, involving both experts and ordinary folks, called by President Biden but put in the hands of a non-profit or something. People talking about science (Covid, climate change, vaccines, etc.), race relations and inequality, and I don't know what all. Then there's a report with recommendations. ----, I don't know what else. I'm making it up right now. It will involve some pain and discomfort, but we have got to get past this us vs them mindset and learn how to get along, or America is toast.

#291 | Posted by cbob at 2020-08-29 06:42 PM | Reply

I'm explaining to these liars and propagandists what actually takes place where the rubber meets the road, when it comes to the Second Amendment protecting us from tyranny:

It'a Jackie O scooping up chunks of Kennedy's brains and trying to put them back in his head.

LeftCoastLawyer, want to become a man today? Let the world know the deaths of Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy were a small price to pay for the freedom to bear arms. Stand up for your rights and celebrate your freedom. RightOCenter will be so proud of you!

These repugnant revisionist historians deserve to to wallow in their own cowardly cognitive dissonance.

They have no counter arguments.

Just hurt feelings, empty hearts, and warped minds.

#292 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 06:44 PM | Reply

I feel ya, Snoof. I really do.

#293 | Posted by cbob at 2020-08-29 06:47 PM | Reply

"One could say the entire civil war was a fight against tyranny"

There were good tyrants on both sides.

Heck, there are even still statues of good tyrants on both sides!

Freedumb!

#294 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 06:47 PM | Reply

In post #2 when I posit the possibility that there is a legitimate self defense issue, I made the mistake of making a strictly legal observation in a forum not set up for properly considering it.

Translation: Even I know what a bunch of unhinged, leftist dumbf*cks you people are--and how completely and utterly divorced from Reason this discussion is.

#295 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-29 06:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Let the world know the deaths of Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy were a small price to pay for the freedom to bear arms.

Since 2003, this is quite possibly the stupidest ------- thing I've ever read on these yellow pages.

And that's saying quite a lot.

FFS

#296 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-29 06:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is that the actual malcontent Mao, or one of the right-wingers that left but idolized him taking on his slime, I mean "shine"?
I love the capitalization of "reason" by the way. Mao was always pretending his self-righteous indignation (actually just plain ol' hate and bigotry) was based on "Reason."

#297 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 06:53 PM | Reply

Snoofy,are you against tyranny? The tyranny of the government,or the tyranny of the mob?

This whole thing comes down to where the tyranny lies. In private citizens, or in the state?

The Yahoo's scream state violence,so do the law and orders. Everybody thinks they're the victim,that why this ---- is gonna be everybody's worst nightmare no matter who wins.

I see America in flames. I see martial law.

No matter who _wins".

#298 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 07:25 PM | Reply

It will involve some pain and discomfort, but we have got to get past this us vs them mindset and learn how to get along, or America is toast.

Bears repeating.

#299 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 07:41 PM | Reply

LeftCoastLawyer, want to become a man today?

That happened long before your "dad" paid your mom for the sex that resulted in your birth.

Let the world know the deaths of Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy were a small price to pay for the freedom to bear arms. Stand up for your rights and celebrate your freedom.

Your twisting only underscores how deep a hole you dug for yourself. Hope you don't end up on any watchlists for those comments.

RightOCenter will be so proud of you!

You are so obsessed with Righto I'm guessing that you rub one out to his memory every night.

#300 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 07:45 PM | Reply

Wasn't skateboard guy the pedophile? What kind of statue should memorialize him? Those three violent criminals came after that kid pretty hard.

When cops don't do their jobs, citizens have to. It's always been that way. We have police now so we don't to serve in the militia anymore. Who wants to go back to the old ways?

#301 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 07:49 PM | Reply

Wasn't skateboard guy the pedophile?
#301 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Nope.

All you got are lies and bullshht in order to protect a murderer because he's white.

News flash. You're a racist.

#302 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 07:53 PM | Reply

Mao is exactly the type of Republican coward who can't ever bring himself to say the murder of four Presidents is worth his right to bear arms.

Even as the first one was murdered for an act of tyranny so great it caused a civil war.

You'd think he'd be cheering that Lincoln got what he deserved.

#303 | Posted by Snoofy at 2020-08-29 07:54 PM | Reply

#302 the attackers where all white. All three. Maybe he was colorblind, huh?

You monster, stop race baiting.

#304 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 07:56 PM | Reply

You'd think he'd be cheering that Lincoln got what he deserved.

Mao would have been fighting for the chance to murder Lincoln himself.

He'd call liberals commies for freeing the slaves.

#305 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 07:58 PM | Reply

Dude,you're stealing my material. Back off. Punk !

#306 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 07:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#303 | Posted by Snoof

Magna-Carta beyatch. The Constitution. Just two examples of arms against tyranny.

Or would you prefer The Communist Manifesto?

#307 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 07:59 PM | Reply

Wasn't skateboard guy the pedophile? What kind of statue should memorialize him? Those three violent criminals came after that kid pretty hard.

When cops don't do their jobs, citizens have to. It's always been that way. We have police now so we don't to serve in the militia anymore. Who wants to go back to the old ways?

#301 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT AT 2020-08-29 07:49 PM | REPLY

One of these "citizens" ends up on my property, I become the armed citizen and shoot him dead. Is that really where we want to go in America?

#308 | Posted by cbob at 2020-08-29 07:59 PM | Reply

You monster, stop race baiting.
#304 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

You racist, stop protecting a murderer.

#309 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 08:00 PM | Reply

"Your twisting only underscores how deep a hole you dug for yourself."

I didn't dig any holes.

The Second Amendment put four Presidents into holes, though. Six feet deep.

Why is it so hard for you to say the Second Amendment juice is worth the Second Amendment squeeze?

Seriously, what's your hang-up?

#310 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 08:03 PM | Reply

#308 If a gang of violent felons (and they where) tried to intimidate everybody in the neighborhood, and no cops to call, then it's survival of the fittest. Defund the police, right?

#311 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

America is Fyccked. This blog is microcosm to the body politic. Civil war. Scary.

#312 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-08-29 08:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Magna-Carta beyatch. The Constitution. Just two examples of arms against tyranny.
#307 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Unless it a 7.62 Magna Carta with laser sight and grenade attachment, then it's just a piece of paper.

I usually don't bother responding to you because of how arrogant you are, because it's better for the site to just let people like you go ignored. A lesson I kinda learned from over-exposure to Goatman.

You, sir, are no Goatman.

#313 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 08:10 PM | Reply

#308 If a gang of violent felons (and they where) tried to intimidate everybody in the neighborhood, and no cops to call, then it's survival of the fittest. Defund the police, right?
#311 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

^
Libertarian Paradise
Boaz can't wait for it, which is hilarious, because he's black.

#314 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 08:12 PM | Reply

Seriously, what's your hang-up?

That's funny coming from you.

#315 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 08:12 PM | Reply

LeftCoastLawyer, I get that you'll never address the issue I raised.

I'm just wondering why you can't do it.

You probably ought to wonder too.

#316 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 08:14 PM | Reply

#313 | Posted by snoo

"Great Charter". In 40 oz.

#317 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:16 PM | Reply

Here's rightwing heartthrob Kyle Rittenhouse sucker punching a girl. It's no surprise that cancervative filth worship this incel pissant.

twitter.com

#318 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 08:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I think it's more accurate to say the cannon ended feudalism, but if you look at midievil history, the longbow and then firearms ended th ruling class. And the bomb. Read "An Ode to Dynamite".

#319 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:21 PM | Reply

#318 - Rittenhouse. Empowered and enabled by Trump. ----.

#320 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 08:24 PM | Reply

#318 If that was real he would be in jail, right? Also, didn't recognize him. Carry on.

#321 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:24 PM | Reply

"You are so obsessed with Righto I'm guessing that you rub one out to his memory every night."

You too. You make him quite randy

#322 | Posted by eberly at 2020-08-29 08:27 PM | Reply

That's him, -------,

twitter.com

#323 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 08:27 PM | Reply

How many 17 year olds have those crocks?
Add that to the looks of the kid in both photos and that's damn conclusive.
To me, that's definitely him, or a hell of a freak of coincidence.

#321 - YOU are questioning if something's real? YOU? YOU that still can't deal with "Jews will not replace us!"? If that's not Rittenhouse he's got a double.

#324 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 08:35 PM | Reply

#323 You guy has a widows peak. Look at the hair in the side by-side. Eyes, eyebrows, and chin don't match. Also, no context. It's a random hit-piece video.

Idiot.

#325 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:36 PM | Reply

BTW - click the photos in #323 to see the crocks and to see his face better.

#326 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 08:37 PM | Reply

#321 I love it when Yav posts. So how did that RussiaGate thing work out for you? Still in denial about UFO's? Building 7? Still think there are WMD's in Iraq? You've been wrong on everything, how can I believe you?

I'll even bet you use Aspartame.

#327 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:38 PM | Reply

Its the same guy. Period. His hair's fallen over his forehead a bit on one photo with his head turned down, versus the other one where he's looking up. That's all that "widow peak" illusion is about.

You refuse to believe what you see here just like you refuse to believe the Charlottesville video.

You're a ------- loon, but some of the stuff you post is at least interesting.

#328 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 08:40 PM | Reply

BTW - #321 is your post. So...

#329 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 08:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Yav, it's a random video with no context. It could be anyone, anywhere, anytime.

#330 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:42 PM | Reply

News flash. You're a racist.

#302 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2020-08-29 07:53 PM

Here you have it folks,

the new standard retort for anyone that doesn't agree with the far left ideology.

#331 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 08:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And for God's sake read the wiki on Charlottesville. It's well sourced from the FBI report. And it is very different from what you heard in the WaPo and NYT.

#332 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#331 | Posted by zetaleph

No it isn't, you Nazi!

#333 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 08:49 PM | Reply

RussiaGate thing work out for you? Still in denial about UFO's? Building 7? Still think there are WMD's in Iraq? You've been wrong on everything, how can I believe you?

Not sure what you mean by "Russiagate" - that's not a term I know. Mueller's report, as proven by the Senate Intelligence report, was accurate and didn't go nearly far enough. The charges made against Trump and his campaign were proven true, despite the lies released by Rubio. There was an entire thread on that. So I was right on that one.

UFOs - I believe in UFOs. I don't characterized them as being anything other than unknown flying objects. Until we have one and we release evidence, I remain fascinated by the documented accounts, especially the NAVY ones (recently) and others. Something is definitely going on and I hope I find out much more before I die!

I never, ever, not once, at any time, believed that there were WMDs in Iraq after their destructions many, many years ago. Nothing like what Bush/Cheney said. I was an enormous opponent of the Iraq war.

So you're wrong about everything you thought about me, which I already knew, because you actually are wrong about everything.

Nana nana boo boo!

#334 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 08:49 PM | Reply

#331 | Posted by zetaleph
No it isn't, you Nazi!

#333 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT AT 2020-08-29 08:49 PM

I resemble that comment.

#335 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 08:51 PM | Reply

Er, um resent....

#336 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 08:51 PM | Reply

Paging Dr. Freud.
Or in your case, Dr. Mengele.

#337 | Posted by Snoofy at 2020-08-29 08:59 PM | Reply

You too. You make him quite randy
#322 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Eberly,

Who never has anything to add to the conversation.

Continues to prove his posts to be useless.

#338 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 09:11 PM | Reply

#334 Suspiciously did not mention Aspartame....

#339 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 09:12 PM | Reply

Keep wriggling Snoofy, no one here expects you to do anything less.

#340 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 09:13 PM | Reply

#334 Hey, good you for the WMD thing. That was 90% of America so it was a good guess. I got called a trator for poking all kinds of holes in it, over and over. One guy even told me "So what if it's false, at least the price of oil will go down".

Yeah. I wonder what he thinks now?

#341 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 09:16 PM | Reply

You came back just to say you can't say it, LeftCoastLawyer?

You're a credit to your race and your profession.

#342 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 09:17 PM | Reply

the new standard retort for anyone that doesn't agree with the far left ideology.
#331 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

Oh look. The shared SockPuppet account has an opinion.

17 year old kid murders two people and shoots third in the arm.

The only reason he's not facing cries for the death sentence is because he's white.

If he were black, or an immigrant, or an illegal immigrant none of this would be a discussion.

You wouldn't be digging for dirt on the deceased. You wouldn't be accusing dead people, who were murdered, of domestic abuse, or pedophilia, or anything else.

Your opinions expose you.

You'd make such a good Nazi.

Trump brings out the best in people.

#343 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 09:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're a credit to your race and your profession.

#342 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 09:17 PM |

You sayin' he's no Johnny Cochran?

#344 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 09:24 PM | Reply

Oh look. The shared SockPuppet account has an opinion.

#343 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2020-08-29 09:22 PM

Whatever do you mean?

#345 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 09:25 PM | Reply

You wouldn't be accusing dead people, who were murdered, of domestic abuse, or pedophilia, or anything else.

Convicted, not accused. And shot in self-defense during a riot.

#346 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 09:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#342

Snoofy, when you are burying yourself, don't fire up the backhoe to make your hole even deeper.

#347 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 09:31 PM | Reply

Snoofy, when you are burying yourself, don't fire up the backhoe to make your hole even deeper.

#347 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER AT 2020-08-29 09:31 PM

When in a hole, STOP DIGGING!

#348 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 09:34 PM | Reply

If you're unwilling to be admit Kyle Rittenhouse is being provided with an uncommon amount of leniency.

After murdering two people.

You're lying.

If you think it's for any reason other than his race.

Again. You're lying.

#349 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 09:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#349 | Posted by ClownShack

No jury would convict him, even if he was black. Seriously. Don't go full racial psychosis on this.

#350 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-08-29 09:39 PM | Reply

No jury would convict him, even if he was black. Seriously. Don't go full racial psychosis on this.

#350 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT AT 2020-08-29 09:39 PM

You're arguing with a clown. Remember that.

#351 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 09:45 PM | Reply

The Hitler Youth murdered two people

#352 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-29 09:46 PM | Reply

No jury would convict him, even if he was black.

Jacob Blake. An Innocent man. Was shot 7 times. In the back. Because there was a possibility there might have been a knife somewhere.

Then everything he had ever done, ever, that could be used against him, to slander him. Suddenly surfaced.

They cuffed him to his bed.

Had Kyle Rittenhouse been black.

No jury would have convicted him. He would have been murdered on sight. By the police.

#353 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 09:47 PM | Reply

You're arguing with a clown. Remember that.
#351 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

Have you posted anything worth reading yet?

All your posts are personal attacks and trolling.

You're a waste.

All you Trumpublicans are.

Bunch of morons who demand people treat their opinions as facts.

#354 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 09:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

While it's not going to be confused with Lincoln / Douglas, this may be the best ...oops sorry, I don't want to be called a racist by a certain one of you for having the names in that order.

While it's not going to be confused with the Douglas / Lincoln debates, the later part of this thread is a real "hoot."

#355 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 09:53 PM | Reply

*Fart*

#356 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-29 09:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Have you posted anything worth reading yet?
All your posts are personal attacks and trolling.
You're a waste.
All you Trumpublicans are.
Bunch of morons who demand people treat their opinions as facts.

#354 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2020-08-29 09:49 PM

Sure have - here's one from the michael Moore thread this afternoon... Reading is fundamental.

Michael Moore: Trump is on Course to Repeat 2016 Win

The DNC is rolling just like they did in 2016. Another post turtle. You see him on top of that fencepost and you know he didn't get there by himself. And Moore predicted with perfection last time too. He didn't pull a prediction out his fat hairy ass.. nope, he explained in detail why it was going to happen. Youtube is your friend.
www.youtube.com

POSTED BY ZETALEPH AT 2020-08-29 06:24 PM | REPLY

#357 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:00 PM | Reply

The only reason he's not facing cries for the death sentence is because he's white.
#343 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

No, dumb a**, it's because WI hasn't had the death penalty since 1853.

BTW, it ain't murder if it's self defense.

#358 | Posted by et_al at 2020-08-29 10:00 PM | Reply

Snoofy, when you are burying yourself, don't fire up the backhoe to make your hole even deeper.
#347 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

You realize a grave has to be six feet deep, right?

And America has got to dig four of them, right?

Backhoe seems like a pretty good idea to me.

As you believe, but are too craven to say, it's a small price to pay for the Second Amendment.

Let's get real, if 180,000 dead Americans from COVID-19 is acceptable losses to Republicans, four desd Presidents is acceptable too.

The GOP is a death cult.

#359 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:01 PM | Reply

And another for the Clown Commune

"Sorry to have to provide the reality check again,"
~ Moore

POSTED BY ZETALEPH AT 2020-08-29 06:27 PM | REPLY

#360 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:01 PM | Reply

Let's get real, if 180,000 dead Americans from COVID-19 is acceptable losses to Republicans, four desd Presidents is acceptable too.
The GOP is a death cult.

#359 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 10:01 PM

Only if you want to apply the results of a pandemic to a political party. And you're going to have a weak case proving that the other party could have managed this better because they haven't had their chance yet.

#362 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:03 PM | Reply

@clownshack you changed those filthy pajamas and put all the takeout containers in the trash yet?

#364 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:08 PM | Reply

"You Dems are so stupid glamorizing these thugs/lowlifes"

Have you seen how glamorous Trump's latest trophy wife is though?

Too bad she's married to a thug/lowlife.

Maybe you should stop glamorizing him.

#365 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:08 PM | Reply

"Only if you want to apply the results of a pandemic to a political party"

Why wouldn't leadership matter when it comes to pandemic results?

Korea with their under 500 deaths sure makes Trump look incompetent. The kind of incompetence that gets 180,000 people killed.

#366 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:10 PM | Reply

#359

Now you are tripling down on the assassination of 4 Presidents?

Interesting tactic.

#368 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-08-29 10:11 PM | Reply

Since 2003, this is quite possibly the stupidest ------- thing I've ever read on these yellow pages.
And that's saying quite a lot.
FFS

#296 | POSTED BY MAO_CONTENT

MAO_CONTENT

Seniority: 278

Private E-mail
No Home Page

Joined 2019/02/20
Visited 2020/08/29

MAO is a stinky sockpuppet

#369 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-08-29 10:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Blake had an outstanding criminal warrant for rape."

So did Julian Assange.

I guess that means Julian Assange ought to get shot in the back eight times.

#370 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:12 PM | Reply

Now you are tripling down on the assassination of 4 Presidents?
#368 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

No, the Second Amendment did that.
It actually went one further.

You support the Second Amendment, right?
Right.

#371 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

MAO is a stinky sockpuppet

#369 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2020-08-29 10:12 PM | REPLY |

How do you know? I read the comments for many years before I actually "joined"

#373 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:17 PM | Reply

"Stick to glorifying your martyred pedophile Jojo Rosenbaum"

Who glorifies the state sponsored violence by the police more, you or Rittenhouse?

What, you haven't killed a single Communist while acting as a private citizen auxiliary unit of the police before your 18th birthday?

Looks like you have some catching up to do.

I hope you have your Patriot Crocs on!

#374 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:18 PM | Reply

"If he engages in a violent struggle with the police while threatening them with a deadly weapon, yes."

Blake didn't do that.
Blake didn't threaten anyone with any weapon.
Not to mention, it's pretty hard to threaten someone with a weapon when they're behind you.

Not that facts matter to Republicans!

#376 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Yet, here you are to hold up pedophile Jojo Rosenbaum"

I've never even mentioned his name.
Not that facts matter to Republicans!

"0% of pedophiles are good people."

Not even President Donald J. TRUMP?
Say it ain't so!

#377 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

MAO is a stinky sockpuppet

I can assure you that this incarnation of MAO is the same lovable character you've interacted with for nigh on a decade, DoucheSquirts.

#378 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-29 10:26 PM | Reply

I guess that means Julian Assange ought to get shot in the back eight times.
#370 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 10:12 PM

The US government wanted to do that at one point

#379 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:30 PM | Reply

Here's rightwing heartthrob Kyle Rittenhouse sucker punching a girl. It's no surprise that cancervative filth worship this incel pissant.

twitter.com

#318 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 08:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Kyle likes to be where the action is.

#380 | Posted by cbob at 2020-08-29 10:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Only if you want to apply the results of a pandemic to a political party"

Yeah. I do.

I guess I'm just like Trump!

Trump is facing a coronavirus threat. Let's look back at how he talked about Ebola
www.vox.com

@realDonaldTrump
Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!
7:04 PM Jul 31, 2014

...

"It's one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It's going to be just fine."
President Donald J. TRUMP
Jan 22, 2020

Guy couldn't even take his own advice.
And now 180,000 Americans are dead, with far more to come, because Trump couldn't KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!

180,000 dead Americans is "just fine." If you're a Republican.

#381 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#378 | POSTED BY MAO_CONTENT

Welcome back, Jak.

#382 | Posted by et_al at 2020-08-29 10:34 PM | Reply

180,000 dead Americans is "just fine." If you're a Republican.

#381 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 10:33 PM | FLAG:

You're not even taking into account what shutting the entire country down would have done to our economy. In the western world we are the extreme in a consumer economy. No one could have dealt with this without wrecking our economy. Not even hair sniffin Joe.

#383 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I guess that means Julian Assange ought to get shot in the back eight times.

#370 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:12 PM | Reply

Holy geeshus Mary and Joseph

one more time....

Police shoot until they've 'terminated a threat'

"The "textbook answer" is that officers fire until they've terminated a threat, according to Seth Stoughton, an associate professor at the University of South Carolina School of Law who studies policing.
Officers use deadly force on a suspect they perceive to be an imminent threat of death or bodily harm to the officers or others. In training, police are told to use force until that person no longer presents a threat, Stoughton said."

edition.cnn.com

#384 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 10:37 PM | Reply

Please delete if not allowed, but anyone wishing to make a donation to Kyle Rittenhouse's defense fund can do so here:

fightback.law

Several GoFundMe accounts had amassed donations over $60,000 before they were cancelled.

They can't cancel this one.

Thanks.

#385 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-29 10:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

www.youtube.com

Welcome back Jak

#386 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:39 PM | Reply

Jak Sae it isn't so?

#387 | Posted by bocaink at 2020-08-29 10:40 PM | Reply

Welcome back, Jak.

Thanks, Hand.

Older, fatter, less intense.

But really looking forward to November.

This place has become completely unhinged---and that's not good for it.

#388 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-08-29 10:41 PM | Reply

"You're not even taking into account what shutting the entire country down would have done to our economy."

Is that what they did in South Korea, where less than 500 people have died?

No, no it is not.

Go ahead and take this into account while you're working on your historical fiction:

US second-quarter GDP down 32.9%.
South Korea 2nd quarter GDP down 3.3%.

Hmmm.

#389 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:43 PM | Reply

Oh, November gonna be fun. completely unhinged humor.

#390 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:44 PM | Reply

Hmmm.

#389 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 10:43 PM | REPLY

Shut up. or not. You make no sense.

#391 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:45 PM | Reply

"Police shoot until they've 'terminated a threat'"

For example, Breonna Taylor was terminated.
Remimd us, what specifically was the threat she posed?
Thanks.

#392 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:46 PM | Reply

You make no sense.
#391 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

Facts first confuse you, then anger you.

#393 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

comparing economics between the US and South Korea.

Why didn't you tell us you got an economics degree with AOC ?

#394 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 10:47 PM | Reply

Facts first confuse you, then anger you.

#393 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-08-29 10:47 PM

Facts??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLO

#395 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 10:48 PM | Reply

Jade Helm. Pizzagate. You know, all the right-wing fantasies that have no basis in truth.
www.hbo.com

It's so clear why the right-wing is a party of brain dead ----------. Poke 'em with anything and call it "liberal" and they react. They'll believe whatever you say if it's about those evil liberals.

Party of ------- morons.

But I'm not supid about this. Do the same thing with Liberal tropes and you'd get some on that side as well - just not as many. The right-wing penchant for autocrats, hierarchy, fear, domination, jingoism is just the type of personality that embraces propaganda.

And for HRat, no on aspartame. I eat natural and organic as much as possible, no diet anything, and avoid processed foods. Have for decades. I will grab a Fresca (Quatro) when I'm in S. America, though. I really wish they had the non-diet version here in the U.S.

#396 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 10:51 PM | Reply

"In the western world we are the extreme in a consumer economy."

Here's some more facts to confuse and anger you!

South Korea: Household consumption as percent of GDP
The average value for South Korea during that period was 59.72 percent with a minimum of 47.55 percent in 2017 and a maximum of 85.14 percent in 1960. The latest value from 2019 is 48.58 percent.

#397 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:51 PM | Reply

"comparing economics between the US and South Korea."

We can compare COVID-19 deaths if that's more to your liking.

180,000 compared to under 500.

Call it a tie?

#398 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:53 PM | Reply

Zeta - speaking of facts - did you ever come up with any regarding your fantasy about absentee/mail-in voting? You tried to be nimble like Irish ceili dancer on that thread, but you just looked like a fish flopping around.

#399 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 10:53 PM | Reply

If the US handled things as South Korea we'd have:
118,887 cases instead of 5,870,000
and we'd have had
1,989 deaths instead of 182,000
(normalized for population)

#401 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 10:57 PM | Reply

Zeta - speaking of facts - did you ever come up with any regarding your fantasy about absentee/mail-in voting?

Huh?

#402 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-08-29 11:02 PM | Reply

No, dumb a**, it's because WI hasn't had the death penalty since 1853.

Thanks for the information. Doesn't change the point.

BTW, it ain't murder if it's self defense.
#358 | POSTED BY ET_AL

I'm not sure if it murder unless it meets certain parameters.

Can you prove shooting someone due to fear is premeditated?

You're discussing semantics.

Instead of understanding the point.

#404 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:02 PM | Reply

#400 -
Russia's been active and is active in our elections today. Senate Intelligence Report, Mueller Report.
Pee tapes - unknown, however corroboration was released from Cohen's personal accounts with Trump in Las Vegas, so it does appear to be more likely than I thought it was when originally reported.
Russians hacking the US has happened for election offices and has been proven, and reported by our intelligence agencies and the FBI.
Russians hacking he US electrical grid is a new one for me, so are you a russian and you let that slip? Sounds like you are. That or a gaslighted right-wing idiot, or a POS myrmidon. Jury's still out.

Fact: Jade Helm was nothing, and yet right-wing morons created havoc and got the State of Texas and the Governor to investigate and put Texas agents in with the Feds to make sure all the Walmarts didn't have tunnels connecting them to house all the enemies of Obama (------- nutjobs).

Fact: No one's shown up with an AR-15 at a Pizza place looking for children being sold by someone oredering a pizza. (------- nutjobs).

Trying to equate what you did to the above shows what a low-life POS you are.

#405 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:05 PM | Reply

Huh?

This entire thread:
drudge.com

#406 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:08 PM | Reply

Remimd us, what specifically was the threat she posed?
Thanks.
#392 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:46 PM |

I can't and won't attempt to defend that action.

BUT ask the kid who got his arm blown up. He has said, allegedly, that he wished he had not hesitated to "pull the gun" and that goes back to a point from earlier that I agreed with...

" Or on the other hand, both were illegally carrying guns (reportedly) and shouldn't have been armed in the first place. "
#106 | Posted by rcade at 2020-08-28 05:40

When the situation gets to the point of the original shooting..because of a non compliant suspect, Cops who hesitate tend to not make it home.

#407 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 11:08 PM | Reply

We can compare COVID-19 deaths if that's more to your liking.
180,000 compared to under 500.

Laura Ingraham let it slip that the orange plague rat's brother died of TrumpVirus. Everything Bunker Bitch touches dies.

twitter.com

#408 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 11:09 PM | Reply

180,000 dead Americans is "just fine." If you're a Republican.

As long as it's not they're friends or family.

Conservatives wouldn't care if the rest of America died off.

#409 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:13 PM | Reply

Kyle likes to be where the action is.

He needs to carry an AR-15 because he fears getting knocked out of his crocs by a chick.

#411 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 11:14 PM | Reply

#407 | POSTED BY RhETARDED

RhETARDED is still pissed Kyle didn't kill more people that night.

Dead liberals are a good time for that sicko.

#412 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:15 PM | Reply

Call it a tie?

#398 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-29 10:53 PM

lol

hardly.

#413 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 11:15 PM | Reply

Looks like the Konservative Kry Klub decided their Facebook fan club sucks and are back in full force.

#414 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:16 PM | Reply

#407 | POSTED BY RhETARDED

RhETARDED is still pissed Kyle didn't kill more people that night.

Dead liberals are a good time for that sicko.

#412 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29

I thought I was clear that I'm not interested in vying with your biased stereotypes and freakish level of nonsense.

#416 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 11:17 PM | Reply

#415 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

You worship an orange pedo who covers his bald head with a dead varmint.

#417 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 11:21 PM | Reply

freakish level of nonsense.
#416 | POSTED BY RhETARDED

Says the guy bringing up nonsense to justify homicide.

You're okay with what Kyle did because of who Kyle is.

#418 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:24 PM | Reply

Impossible to have done so. S. Korea is not an open Western democracy. So, compare to those that are: Spain, France, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, UK, Canada.

LMAO! Impossible? True under Trump - what a ------- idiot. Just so happens I ran some of those countries you listed and some you didn't:

Country: Scaled Cases Scaled Deaths
Brazil 5,890,368 186,424
UK 1,624,996 204,242
Sweden 2,691,625 186,718
France 1,273,612 149,777
Canada 1,108,843 79,470
Germany 952,737 36,999
Netherlands, Denmark, Iceland, FInland, and Norway are all doing really well - nothing even comparable to the US and rank below Germany when scaled to the size of the U.S.

Brazil was/is as stupid as the United States in their denial. It's incredible.
Pay attention: The UK denied COVID-19 even more than the U.S. They got hit hard, then dumbass Blair came down with it, the UK freaked out, and they finally started mitigation. They're still doing well.
Sweden was even worse, and they've suffered a LOT for it.
France was late - and like Italy and Spain got hit hard initially. They've done a lot since. The numbers for Italy today are awesome, but France and Spain relaxed and they're seeing the results now. Not good.
Canada and Germany got their ---- together quickly. We could easily have done what they did.

Really, if you're just fascinated with a particular country, the calculations are easy to do. Knock yourself out. Or you can just go with the "per capita" numbers and do the comparison that way. There are tons of resources online for that.

#419 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:24 PM | Reply

Incel Fatberg, here are your child-raping hero's exploits.

www.ericschwartzman.com

#421 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 11:29 PM | Reply

freakish level of nonsense.
#416 | POSTED BY RhETARDED

Says the guy bringing up nonsense to justify homicide.

You're okay with what Kyle did because of who Kyle is.

#418 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:24 PM |

It's always pleasant to end the day's reading with a big laugh from the guy who does deserve a large amount of accolades. You picked the perfect name

for yourself...."clown."

Good Night.

#422 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 11:32 PM | Reply

No one was indicted for colluding with the Russians and now we know that there was not actual evidence that the Russians, or anyone for that matter, hacked the DNC emails. It was a hoax.

So you have to move the goalposts and lie again so I have to address this new lie? ---- you.

Per the FBI files, the source of the original accusation stated it was 'bar talk'. If you still believe this, you are truly stupid.

Apparently you can't read. So, again ---- you.

It was in the Washington Post and covered on Rachel Maddow's conspiracy show...the great 'imagine if they turned off the heat in South Dakota during winter' nonsense she usually spews.

Oh - I saw that. Your mischaracterization of that segment was so poor I didn't recognize it. Putting it the way you did just then, though, makes me more concerned than I was based on what Maddow said. Given Russia's history of shutting down natural gas to Europe, knowing what can be done in a cyber attach and how successful the Russians were with certain States, you actually made a good point for being concerned. Which is probably why the Pentagon and our Intelligence Agencies have been concerned. I had to do some research. Kudos to you. It is something to consider given what Russia did to Ukraine: www.wired.com

#423 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Did Rittenhouse call anybody to brag after he sucker punched a girl?

#424 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 11:32 PM | Reply

Wall Street Journal:
"America's Electric Grid Has a Vulnerable Back Door"and Russia Walked Through It"
www.wsj.com

#426 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good Night.
#422 | POSTED BY RhETARDED

Hope you have sweet dreams of you and Rittenhouse murdering people together.

#427 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-29 11:36 PM | Reply

What point is it to attack the character of two people who were murdered? Oh, yeah, when you are lying that it was "self-defense". If the roles were reversed, we on the left would not be defending the idiot kid from our side who murdered two people.

#429 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-29 11:39 PM | Reply

2Down is a complete troll. Bye, 8!+c#

#431 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-08-29 11:41 PM | Reply

Incel Fatberg should change his handle to 186000down in honor of his child-raping hero.

#433 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-08-29 11:48 PM | Reply

It looks like you're zero for four on the original argument, so on to this one:

Like I said, we are about in the middle when scaled for population and France/Spain/Belgium - Belgium, which I see you left off for some strange reason...well, maybe not so strange as their deaths would be 284,000.

As I said, Spain got hammered. They ignored everything, all the warnings, what was going on in Italy. For you I just did the numbers:
Spain 3,065,528 202,583
Netherlands 1,311,491 118,000 (I was wrong about the Netherlands, but I'd still take 70,000 lives saved)

We're nowhere in the middle of intelligent countries that had warning - not even close.
Denmark 955,375 35,217
Finland 478,739 19,925
Norway 640,996 15,948
Iceland 1,892,765 9,013
Australia 332,427 7,509
Japan 167,997 3,191

It's not strange - I ran these particular countries a few days ago and had them handy.
Belgium had a unique situation with massive travel. That's a corner case and I deliberately didn't bother.

Congrats, you just outed yourself as a conspiracy theorist. The effeminate version of Alex Jones....I can't wait for your meltdown on the government turning frogs straight.

What? You are a loon. I posted an article from the WSJ, from an attack on the Ukraine (WIRED), and found that there is indeed concern. How that translates into being a conspiracy theorist when you're the one doing all the ------- crazy posting is beyond me. Also what's up with the effeminate? That's pretty ------' funny! My friends would be laughing their asses off if they were here reading this with me!

By the way, I'm gay.

You stupid ----. BWHAHHAHAHAA!

#434 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:56 PM | Reply

The effeminate version of Alex Jones....I can't wait for your meltdown on the government turning frogs straight.

#428 | Posted by 2Down at 2020-08-29 11:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gooooaaaaaaaalllllll !!

#435 | Posted by rhet at 2020-08-29 11:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And you defend the 3 pieces of human garbage that the 17 year old kid had to put out on the curb for trash collection.

Ok, you're a piece of ----. I'm done with this incarnation of you. You're worse than ----. ---- has value.

#436 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-29 11:58 PM | Reply

"Like I said, we are about in the middle when scaled for population"

No we aren't.
USA had 42,843 new cases yesterday.
France had 5,243. That scales to about 25,000
Belgium had 452. That scales to about 15,000.

The USA ranks with Trumpstain countries, not Western countries.
Congratulations, Republicans.
You built that!

#438 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:16 AM | Reply

"a frightened 17 year old kid."

Why would a frightened 17 year old kid get his mom to drive him to another state and walk around illegally after curfew with an illegal weapon?

Was it his mom he was afraid of?

#439 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:19 AM | Reply

#PedophileLivesMatter
#430 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

Comments like this do a great job exposing the right-wing lie that is:
#AllLivesMatter

#440 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:28 AM | Reply

"comparing economics between the US and South Korea."

We can compare COVID-19 deaths if that's more to your liking.
180,000 compared to under 500.
Call it a tie?
#398 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

lol
hardly.
#413 | POSTED BY RHET

Then what should we call it?
I know: "Acceptable Losses!"
Notice that acceptable losses are still... losses.
So much winning!
#MAGA

#442 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:36 AM | Reply

"Because that is where he worked"

His mom was dropping him off at work?
With an AR-15?
After curfew?

#444 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:37 AM | Reply

#RapistLivesMatter
#443 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

Comments like this do a great job exposing the right-wing lie that is:
#AllLivesMatter
#440 | POSTED BYSNOOFY

#445 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:40 AM | Reply

"You cheering"

LOL
I haven't cheered for anyone.

#447 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:47 AM | Reply

After they are born, you want them killed, raped, and robber by other black lives.
#446 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

My opposition to the Second Amendment tells a different story, considering how many blacks are killed by guns.

Go to bed JeffJ, you're drunk.

#448 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:50 AM | Reply

He'll give you $40 if you have pictures

#450 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 12:53 AM | Reply

Yeah, you're definitely drunk.

#452 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:58 AM | Reply

"your Communist dream which requires 100% obedience to the state"

You're the one championing TrumpJugend.

#453 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 12:59 AM | Reply

Dignity?
Why do you guys come back here worse than when you left?
Thanks to this new phone technology I have to wipe off the snot and spittle after each post.

If that is you Jeff, seek help.

#455 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 01:17 AM | Reply

A white guy called a white guy a ------, well justifiable killing , your honor.

#457 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 01:25 AM | Reply

Are you saying that Trump is a communist?
#454 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

Nope.
However, Communist grooming techniques were highly effective at bringing Trump under former KGB officer Putin's sway.

#458 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 01:26 AM | Reply

You know , dignity,

#459 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 01:27 AM | Reply

I put $20 on you having already rubbed one out to pedophile Jojo Rosenbaum calling the 17 year old kid the n-word.
#449 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

I flagged this "Abusive" because it sexually objectifies a minor.
Thanks for reading and understanding.

Hope you're beating the heat at this hour, BruceAZ.

#460 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 01:29 AM | Reply

Deaths Per 100,000 Population coronavirus.jhu.edu

1. Peru 88.40
2. Chile 59.44
3. Brazil 57.05
4. United States 55.57
5. Mexico 50.04
6. Bolivia 42.68
7. Ecudaor 38.07
8. Colomiba 37.80
9. Iran 25.98
10. South Africa 23.79

The top 8 countries in the world for COVID-19 deaths per capita are in our Monroe Doctrine Sphere of Influence.

Congratulations, Republicans.
You built that!

#461 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 01:36 AM | Reply

If that is you Jeff, seek help.
#455 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ

This is where married conservative white men go when their marriages fall apart.
Ask Eberly if you require further clarification.

#463 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 01:39 AM | Reply

Snoofy, something blew in and it's 81 outside, for months it hasn't been below 90 when the sun rises.

Don't flag abusive, it's 2AM rcade time and I just said "------'

Anyway, you can handle this punk, piece of cake. Not your first rodeo.;^)

#465 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 01:43 AM | Reply

2 down
N bomb N word yeah very sweet Just say ------ Emily Post. You know you want to.

#466 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 01:48 AM | Reply

In the western world we are the extreme in a consumer economy. No one could have dealt with this without wrecking our economy.
#383 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

Huh.

I guess that means our continued existence (minus 180,000 and counting, of course) depends on Zoomers guzzling $5 lattes, Millennials and their avocado toast, and Welfare Bums buying the latest $1,000 iPhones and paying for lap dances with their EBT.

I guess the reason you hate all those people's spending habits is because you hate America and you want to wreck the American economy.

#467 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 01:49 AM | Reply

"Deaths/million in counties that voted Trump in 2016: 8.6"

^
Fake News.

apnews.com

#469 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 01:51 AM | Reply

#468 well that was funny, I have to admit.

See you're basically all right, why you got to be such an -------,

#470 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 01:54 AM | Reply

This is a blue state issue because you progressive morons can't follow your own guidelines.
#464 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

You can't hold the child you elected president responsible for failing to protect America from a foreign cruise because he cut taxes on himself and crippled the CDC.

You can't open your eyes to the fact Trump has stolen more from America than Democrats have in their entirety of the party.

You're an idiot who blames others for the failures of your own party and believes Trump's opinions over science and facts.

You're a waste of an American.

#471 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 01:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Cruise" should read "virus".

#473 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 01:58 AM | Reply

Fake news.
#472 | POSTED BY 2DOWN

No. It's real news.

It's just not what Trump told you to believe.

#474 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 01:59 AM | Reply

County? Hey why not go full Gracie.
Zipcode

#476 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 02:01 AM | Reply

If that is you Jeff, seek help.

Jeff sold his soul to pwn liberals.

It's what happens after defending the awful shht Trump has done to America over the past four years.

#477 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 02:01 AM | Reply

"Take Texas, urban area of Houston, urban area of Dallas, Austin trash areas not reflective of Texas at large."

Not reflective of Texas at large?
You just described over half of Texas GDP.

#478 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:04 AM | Reply

Your right, I feel remorse for insulting --------. You're beyond that.

#479 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-08-30 02:04 AM | Reply

"Much like the cesspit Atlanta vs. Georgia in general."

LOL you just did it again!
Atlanta metro GDP: $357.31 billion
Georgia total GDP: $461.11 billion

#480 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:06 AM | Reply

101Chairborne was far funnier than all of these hacks put together.

#481 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:07 AM | Reply

101 was a funny guy.

These Trump supporters are angry and stupid.

#482 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 02:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Sully had his moments too.

I can see why he left. The inmates took over his center-right asylulm.

#483 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:10 AM | Reply

Sully was who Eberly imagines himself to be.

#484 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 02:26 AM | Reply

Here's part of the Wisc statute on self-defense, for whatever you can deduce from it regarding this case:

(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.

(b) The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant.

(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

#485 | Posted by Karabekian at 2020-08-30 09:51 AM | Reply

A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

#485 | POSTED BY KARABEKIAN

While there may be mitigating circumstances that can reduce his sentence this should explain why this boy is in such deep doo doo.

#486 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-30 10:10 AM | Reply

"While there may be mitigating circumstances that can reduce his sentence this should explain why this boy is in such deep doo doo."

Suspended sentence.

That's what will happen.

#487 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-30 10:17 AM | Reply

No one could have dealt with this without wrecking our economy. Not even hair sniffin Joe.

POSTED BY ZETALEPH

Bullcrap. I could have done a better job than Trumpy and his deplorables.

#488 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-30 10:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Suspended sentence.

That's what will happen.

#487 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Like King Trumpy always says.

We'll see.

#489 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-08-30 10:40 AM | Reply

"Bullcrap. I could have done a better job than Trumpy and his deplorables."

No kidding?

What would you have done?

#490 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-30 11:17 AM | Reply

I suppose he'd follow the Science. Like:
New Zealand
S. Korea
Japan
Australia
Iceland
Norway
Finland
Denmark
Germany
Canada

and not like
Belgium*
United Kingdom+
Spain-
Chile-
Italy*
Sweden+
Brazil+
+ These countries actively dismissed COVID-19 as a thread, along wiith the U.S.
* These countries got hit first and/or had extensive travel to them early on. Testing was a big issue early on allowing the spread.
- Spain's culture, multigenerational living and gatherins, and virtually no detection early on (testing) hit it heard. Similar with Chile (and Peru, not listed)

www.statista.com

#491 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-30 12:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I suppose he'd follow the Science...

Yeah...

What do you think the protester would have said to you had you told them they were limited to groups of ten or less?

#492 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-08-30 12:18 PM | Reply

Your question was about Zeta's statement "You're not even taking into account what shutting the entire country down would have done to our economy. In the western world we are the extreme in a consumer economy. No one could have dealt with this without wrecking our economy. Not even hair sniffin Joe."

You're now trying to change the conversation for obvious reasons.

I am ignoring your attempt to do so.

#493 | Posted by YAV at 2020-08-30 12:46 PM | Reply

"Bullcrap. I could have done a better job than Trumpy and his deplorables."
No kidding?
What would you have done?
#490 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Testing, testing, testing.
In late winter.
At the time when Trump was Denying, denying, denying.

It's really that simple.
Didn't you see The Thing?
We've always had the means to contain the infected.
What we still lack in sufficient numbers is a way to know who is infected.

#494 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:21 PM | Reply

What do you think the protester would have said to you had you told them they were limited to groups of ten or less?
#492 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Is it "Ow, those pepper spray balls really hurt?"

#495 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:23 PM | Reply

What would you have done?
#490 | POSTED BY ---------------

Anyone could have done better.

1) Don't pass an unnecessary tax cut for the rich.

2) Don't defund the CDC.

3) When intelligence communities say there's a major virus heading our way, believe them.

4) Don't call it a hoax.

5) Don't ignore it and go golfing for two months.

6) Don't put Kushner and Pence in charge of the response team.

7) Mandate a two week nationwide stay at home order

8) Don't refuse to wear masks.

9) Don't send the PPE to China and offer it to Russia

10) Don't steal PPE from states.

11) Don't help to states based on how loyal they are to you

12) Don't reopen the economy until the virus is under control.

13) Don't reopen schools

Trump literally failed at doing anything useful.

And you're here to praise him. Because Trump is your favorite American president. He pwns libs and is killing America!

#496 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-08-30 02:42 PM | Reply

14) Don't fire the people in the pandemic preparedness office and roll the remaining ones into a bioterrorism role.

15) Treat the outbreak like a bioterror attack from China and react accordingly to protect the homeland.

#497 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:45 PM | Reply

"Anyone could have done better"

As evinced by the fact that almost every national leader has in fact done better.

USA is #4 in deaths per capita.

Of course, we still have time to rise in the ranks:

"A pandemic will last 18 months or longer and could include multiple waves of illness."

#498 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-08-30 02:52 PM | Reply

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