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Wednesday, September 02, 2020

Family members and activists on Tuesday demanded that the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department release the names of the deputies who shot and killed a Black man in the South Los Angeles neighborhood of Westmont the day before.

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This doesn't sound justified, even if he did punch one of them.

#1 | Posted by PussyFort at 2020-09-02 04:37 AM | Reply

He may have had another handgun. Or something.

#2 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-09-02 11:50 AM | Reply

But the police aren't really shooting too many. It's just liberals trying to make something from nothing.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2020-09-02 12:30 PM | Reply

nypost.com

Why cops are standing down all across America
American policing today is in a state of slow-motion collapse, struggling mightily to attract new officers " no matter how low standards are dropped.

Under sustained assault by the City Council, pundits and self-styled civil-liberties advocates, a new generation of New York City cops is being conditioned to avoid showdowns with civilians, especially where coercion or force is called for. We could have saved the costly investment in body cameras by explicitly telling the cops two words: "Do nothing."

Officers who do more engagement than what is absolutely required have been threatened by HQ that they'll find themselves on a list of "troublemakers." Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.

#4 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-09-02 12:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

In Trump's America ANY black man on a bicycle is a violation.

#5 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2020-09-02 12:37 PM | Reply

In Trump's America ANY black man on a bicycle is a violation.

Yep.

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-09-02 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.
#4 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

Good, that's the point. If they can't do their jobs legally and professionally, they should stay home. If they care more for their own safety than that of innocents, they should stay home.

#7 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-09-02 12:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.
#4 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

Fine with me.

Saves the taxpayers billions.

Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-02 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.
#4 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

Will the police stop killing a thousand people a year when that happens?

Is that what you're afraid of, the police not killing a thousand people a year?

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-02 01:00 PM | Reply

Really? A bicycle violation?

Sounds like a hunt gone awry.

#10 | Posted by fresno500 at 2020-09-02 01:13 PM | Reply

Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.
#4 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

Any LEO that feels the need to murder someone running away is a p.o.s. and deserves jail.

#11 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-09-02 01:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Sounds like a hunt gone awry."

Sounds like everything went according to plan.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-02 01:17 PM | Reply

Do you guys ever look at all the facts? or do you just jump to fast conclusions to fit what you want? Maybe you should take a breath, wait a day or two and then read the truth, in this case you don't have to but it might be good for you. Another one of these stupid "hands up don't shoot". In case you didn't realize, that never happened, but hey he is a BLM poster boy, they love those thugs.

#13 | Posted by phinphan at 2020-09-02 01:32 PM | Reply

#4 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

What a bunch of nonsense.

If their only after the power and immunity that comes with the job so they can be -------- to anybody they choose they shouldn't be cops.

I say good riddance.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-02 01:35 PM | Reply

PHINPHAN doesn't actually think black lives do matter.

#15 | Posted by danni at 2020-09-02 01:36 PM | Reply

Maybe you should take a breath, wait a day or two and then read the truth, in this case you don't have to but it might be good for you.

What truth are you speaking of?

That he didn't have a weapon when they fired 8-11 rounds?

Tell me, what does a cop have to do for you to say that he/she acted wrongly?

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-02 01:41 PM | Reply

Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.

Because they can't murder blacks with impunity? Poor babies. Let's hope their pensions haven't vested yet.

#17 | Posted by JOE at 2020-09-02 01:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No, Danni, I think that black lives matter, but BLM is a joke and it doesn't matter. There is a big difference. The difference between you and I is that all you see is color and you make your decisions based on that. I see people, I don't care what color they are. Some wise person said something like that once about not looking at color of skin, but there heart. He doesn't matter anymore because his way is totally opposite of BLM. They would crucify MLK today. He wasn't about looting, and rioting and destroying, so he would be looked down on, but the dems love division and chaos.

#18 | Posted by phinphan at 2020-09-02 02:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"They would crucify MLK today. He wasn't about looting, and rioting and destroying, so he would be looked down on, but the dems love division and chaos."

The rioting, looting and destroying was way worse back in the days of MLK than they are today. And these police shootings are so commonplace that BLM is an important organizating bringing attention to the issue of police murdering people. That's why it is black "lives" matter, emphasis on "lives."

#19 | Posted by danni at 2020-09-02 02:31 PM | Reply

Not seeing color got us to where we are today. Not good enough

#20 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-09-02 02:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Directly from the article: "They'll say he had a gun, but what they won't say was that he was not armed with the gun. He did not point the gun (one was found at the scene). ... There was no reason for deputies to shoot a running man." News Flash. Cops have bigger guns and have practiced more. If you are STUPID enough to have an illegal gun and then decide to hide it from the cops, you run a really big risk of getting shot. In this current climate, I'll bet if this guy simply told the cops that he had a gun (legal or otherwise), he would have been arrested (alive) and would have been back on the streets within hours. Instead he decided to hide the gun....run....drop the bundle...exposing the gun...and then made "some motion" towards the gun. Some motion could mean anything including a minor trip. Are we getting to the point now that a cop can only shoot a suspect after the suspect shoots the cop? 14 unarmed black men were killed by cops in 2019. Over 200 armed black men were killed by cops in 2019. Please tell me what the cops should have done for the 200+ that had a weapon. Maybe the law should be that if the suspect has a gun, the cop can use a gun. If the suspect has a knife, the cop has to use a knife. If the suspect has a screwdriver, the cop needs to go to Home Depot first. Simple solution: don't fight with a cop. Let the liberal courts fight for you. You'll probably get off.

#21 | Posted by Rocky_b at 2020-09-02 02:39 PM | Reply

They would crucify MLK today. He wasn't about looting, and rioting and destroying, so he would be looked down on, but the dems love division and chaos.

Please don't speak for Dr. King - you embarrass yourself and denigrate his memory. No, he didn't want riots, but here's what he thought about them:

"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."
Since you're such a big believer in Dr. King do you agree with the above?

#22 | Posted by JOE at 2020-09-02 02:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

I'm constantly hearing 2nd Amendment advocates tell us that EVERYONE should exercise their right to carry a firearm. Apparently that's only true if you're white.

#23 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2020-09-02 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

For those of you who are cheering for massive reductions in the number of police officers and for those who are left to be neutered to the point of standing back and doing nothing, be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.

#24 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-09-02 02:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Spend less on cops.
More on social workers, drug rehab programs and mental health services.

Make America Great. For a change.

#25 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-09-02 03:00 PM | Reply

For those of you who are cheering for massive reductions in the number of police officers and for those who are left to be neutered to the point of standing back and doing nothing, be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.
#24 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

I've seen more reasonable proposals like taking some of the money from police departments and spending it on people who are trained to handle certain situations in non-violent ways, and then also transferring some of that work from police to them (like welfare checks, mental illness/homelessness, drug use, school discipline, etc.). Presumably the things we actually need the threat of violence to contain (like murder, rape, robbery, assault) could then still be handled by police because their funding is only being reduced at the same rate their work is being reduced. What do you think about something like that?

#26 | Posted by JOE at 2020-09-02 03:19 PM | Reply

#26 I'm not opposed to it. I'd like to see something like that floated as a trial balloon in a city willing to be the test experiment before rolling it out on a grand scale. It sounds nice on paper but we'd need to see how it works in real time before adopting it en masse.

#27 | Posted by zetaleph at 2020-09-02 03:28 PM | Reply

Joe, I challenge you to look at some of the many Youtube videos from police bodycams and ask yourself if a social worker would have done a better job getting the knife or gun away from a suspect. I too believe we should spend more money on social programs but lets get the money from some other place other than the cops. You have the pollyanna idea that all it takes is some kind words and some sympathy and the bad guy with the gun will drop their weapon and apologize for their actions. If the local authorities were to follow your ideas, I think we'd be trading dead men with weapons for dead social workers.

#28 | Posted by Rocky_b at 2020-09-02 03:28 PM | Reply

#27 Sounds good to me.

#28 I'm not talking about de facto violent situations. I'm talking about a homeless man talking to himself in a grocery store parking lot, a guy shooting heroin in a public park, a welfare check on a neighb or who hasn't been seen in a while, a truant high school kid. Try to stay on topic.

#29 | Posted by JOE at 2020-09-02 03:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

For those of you who are cheering for massive reductions in the number of police officers and for those who are left to be neutered to the point of standing back and doing nothing, be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.

#24 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

You misunderstand.

The cheering is for the self-removal of officers who are of questionable mindsets.

#30 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-02 03:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Everybody calm down until we figure out if the black man was a pot smoker or not.

#31 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2020-09-02 03:45 PM | Reply

For those of you who are cheering for massive reductions in the number of police officers and for those who are left to be neutered to the point of standing back and doing nothing, be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.

#24 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

I wish for this:

www.politico.com

Today, violent crime in the city has decreased, and police officers are a regular presence at community block parties.

#32 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-09-02 03:48 PM | Reply

and for those who are left to be neutered to the point of standing back and doing nothing
#24 | POSTED BY ZETALEPH

The three cops who let George Floyd get killed are already neutered to the point of standing back and doing nothing.

Almost all of them are.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-02 03:53 PM | Reply

Joe, Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you. Just to make sure though. You're OK sending a cop to a man with a gun" call.

#34 | Posted by Rocky_b at 2020-09-02 04:02 PM | Reply

Joe, I challenge you to look at some of the many Youtube videos from police bodycams and ask yourself if a social worker would have done a better job getting the knife or gun away from a suspect. I too believe we should spend more money on social programs but lets get the money from some other place other than the cops. You have the pollyanna idea that all it takes is some kind words and some sympathy and the bad guy with the gun will drop their weapon and apologize for their actions. If the local authorities were to follow your ideas, I think we'd be trading dead men with weapons for dead social workers.

#28 | POSTED BY ROCKY_B

Rocky, i'm going to attempt to explain something to you that i am very familiar with.

Yes, police need to gain control of a situation. That is one of their primary purposes. However, very often, they are dealing with someone who is mentally incapable, in the moment, to responding to commands. Standard police procedures is to exert control through force-words, restraint, taser, gun. But, when a person is having a psychological episode, they are incapable of responding to these types of control measures. A person having a psychological episode is incapable of rational thought. So you have a situation where commands are given and ignored the result is escalation-police escalate their effort at control and the individual's psychological condition is exacerbated. This is a spiral that leads to injuries and death-to the individual, the police officer and to bystanders.

This is an inevitable result of the the current, common policing practice.

What IS productive? A measured, patient response. Provide the individual space and time to calm down, avoiding actions that will result in the individual becoming more agitated. These de-escalation tactics are proven successful. And are safer for everyone.

I saw video of a schizophrenic man brandishing a knife who was gunned down by police. The man was not lunging at anyone, just standing their, screaming waving the knife around. That man was completely incapable of responding to shouts or threats of restraint. What he would have responded to was patience. Allow him to work through the crisis, give him space and time to calm down and the situation would have easily resolved itself.

Or take the case of Tamir Rice. The police receive a call of a kid with a gun in a park. The cops rush at full speed at him, slam on the brakes jump out of the car and shoot the child who had a toy gun. A far BETTER response, would have to stood back and calmly assess the situation.

#35 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-09-02 04:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Just to make sure though. You're OK sending a cop to a man with a gun" call.

Of course. But I'd still argue they need better training in de-escalation than they currently receive.

#36 | Posted by JOE at 2020-09-02 04:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Truthhurts, You might find this shocking but I agree with you with regard to those that are manic or having a mental issue. I haven't looked this up but has someone lowered the voltage on tasers recently because in a number of incidents recently, they don't seem to work at all. There's also something known as Suicide by Cop. You've all heard of it. When I looked at the Washington Post listing of people killed by cops, there's a category of toy gun. What happened with Tamir Rice was a tragedy. A child holding a toy gun should be given the benefit of a doubt but I'd bet if you were to investigate the people killed while holding a toy gun, they'd fall into two categories: 1. the one you referred to which you must admit would be hard for a cop to determine what's real or not and 2. a person who wants to die. For every time there's a cop like the one who killed George Floyd, there are tens of thousands who do try to defuse a situation. The whole ACAB slogan isn't helping anyone. If I were a cop today, I don't think I'd be intervening in any crime involving a black man (armed or not). I think I'd rather get fired for not doing my job then taking any action which could land me in jail.

#37 | Posted by Rocky_b at 2020-09-02 08:14 PM | Reply

They would crucify MLK today.

No they wouldn't, they'd shoot him on the balcony. Just like they did!

#38 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-09-02 09:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#26 I'm not opposed to it. I'd like to see something like that floated as a trial balloon in a city willing to be the test experiment before rolling it out on a grand scale. It sounds nice on paper but we'd need to see how it works in real time before adopting it en masse.

Done.

Eugene Oregon, a longtime ago. It worked.

#39 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-09-02 11:44 PM | Reply

Look up CAHOOTS crisis response

#40 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-09-02 11:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't care what color they are.
#18 | POSTED BY PHINPHAN

So you're appalled with the rate that cops kill folks no matter what their race? Good, why aren't you at the protests with everyone else?

#41 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-09-03 09:26 AM | Reply

I see people, I don't care what color they are. Some wise person said something like that once about not looking at color of skin, but there heart. He doesn't matter anymore because his way is totally opposite of BLM. They would crucify MLK today. He wasn't about looting, and rioting and destroying, so he would be looked down on, but the dems love division and chaos.
#18 | POSTED BY PHINPHAN

Ahhh, yes. Another individual stuck in the Era of Colorblindness.

'Come with me friend, I want to show you your new home.'

Systemic racism has a causal influence on our current situation. Recognizing, acknowledging, and acting on that premise is all that's being done here.

#42 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-03 04:17 PM | Reply

Spend less on cops.
More on social workers, drug rehab programs and mental health services.
Make America Great. For a change.
#25 | POSTED BY MODER8

I say spend MORE on cops. More pay for less responsibility and maybe you'll get some higher quality recruits.

You think someone trained in the military will put law enforcement career on a pedestal upon exit when entry-level compensation barely hits $40,000 a year? Only the ones who have no other option will really do that, and those are not the folks you want on the force.

Qualified, exceptional candidates pass over law enforcement careers because of such little pay starting out. A coworker of mine (case manager) was looking for a career change and applied to become a police officer. She was an awesome candidate, bi-lingual, athletic, sharp as a tac and as skeptical as a cat walking into a room of rocking chairs. She went through the whole process and was offered a job, which included 6 months at the academy. The major hurdle for this setup was her kids, she's a single mother of two. The police department was offering her just under $40,000 to start, which would have been a significant pay cut for her. In the end, she passed up on the opportunity because the pay was so small.

Pay them more to have less responsibility (i.e., more funding for social workers, drug rehab programs, and mental health services) with increased training (post-reform) and we'll see some very positive outcomes.

The status-quo, I fully agree with you, cannot be sustained in this environment.

#43 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-03 04:27 PM | Reply

Bears repeating:

Rocky, i'm going to attempt to explain something to you that i am very familiar with.
Yes, police need to gain control of a situation. That is one of their primary purposes. However, very often, they are dealing with someone who is mentally incapable, in the moment, to responding to commands. Standard police procedures is to exert control through force-words, restraint, taser, gun. But, when a person is having a psychological episode, they are incapable of responding to these types of control measures. A person having a psychological episode is incapable of rational thought. So you have a situation where commands are given and ignored the result is escalation-police escalate their effort at control and the individual's psychological condition is exacerbated. This is a spiral that leads to injuries and death-to the individual, the police officer and to bystanders.
This is an inevitable result of the the current, common policing practice.
What IS productive? A measured, patient response. Provide the individual space and time to calm down, avoiding actions that will result in the individual becoming more agitated. These de-escalation tactics are proven successful. And are safer for everyone.
I saw video of a schizophrenic man brandishing a knife who was gunned down by police. The man was not lunging at anyone, just standing their, screaming waving the knife around. That man was completely incapable of responding to shouts or threats of restraint. What he would have responded to was patience. Allow him to work through the crisis, give him space and time to calm down and the situation would have easily resolved itself.
Or take the case of Tamir Rice. The police receive a call of a kid with a gun in a park. The cops rush at full speed at him, slam on the brakes jump out of the car and shoot the child who had a toy gun. A far BETTER response, would have to stood back and calmly assess the situation.

#35 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2020-09-02 04:08 PM | FLAG:
RECEIVED
| NEWSWORTHY 4


Cheers to you, TRUTHY!

#44 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-03 04:31 PM | Reply

"I say spend MORE on cops."

How much do you think is appropriate for civil servants without a college degree?

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-03 05:16 PM | Reply

How much do you think is appropriate for civil servants without a college degree?
#45 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Using SDPD as an example:

$44,000 starting is far less than the $75,456 median income for the region. Let's say entry level police officers without a college degree earn 5% more than the region's median income, setting the starting salary at just less than $80,000 per year. Now, the position does not require a college degree, much like other positions in other industries. But having an entry-level position compensated that high will bring in many candidates who do have college degrees; you know, that higher quality candidate thing.

#46 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-03 05:28 PM | Reply

"$44,000 starting is far less than the $75,456 median income for the region."

$75,456 is the median household income. Not individual.

Two entry level cops in a household beat that by $5k.

I can't think of any other entry level no-degree job that pays that well.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-03 05:41 PM | Reply

Also, math is hard, as two rookie cops beat that by $12k.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-03 05:44 PM | Reply

Rsty I simply don't think paying cops more will get you better cops, and I'd love to know how you got to a place where you think raising pay without raising standards will get you better cops.

The Alameda County cop who started a shoving match with the Toronto Raptors President makes $150,000 a year.

You really think you're getting your money's worth from that guy?

As Deputy Sheriff at Alameda County, Alan F Strickland made $266,649 in total compensation. Of this total $98,147 was received as a salary, $59,430 was received as overtime pay, $98,268 was received as benefits and $10,804 came from other types of compensation. calsalaries.com

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-04 12:52 AM | Reply

It has been my experience through most of my life that compensation does not equate with the quality of the employee in any field. Character determines the quality of the employee, paying them more will not magically change their character. We need to pay our police well, which I think we do in most cities and they get great benefits too. What we need to do is to screen them better and root out the bullies and psychos.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2020-09-04 09:36 AM | Reply

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